Trick room is fine, there are lots of mons that are sweepers but are able to take hits.
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Metagame Metagame Discussion Thread v4
- Thread starter Gary
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Trick Room teams were pretty popular in early SM, don't know how good are they now tho
Trick room stall is kind of oxymoronic. Trick room only lasts for 4 turns, and you should be as active as possible during that very limited time frame trying to break the opposing team. Stall aims to waste turns and win through passive damage. So the two can't work together on the same team. You'll find yourself pivoting in your trick room setter all of the time, so it will get disproportionately worn down down and then die. Also, fast disable or healing isn't all that much better than slow disable or helaing when you consider the mons in question.
Trick room tho is viable.
Agreed, Trick Room tends to benefit slow, high attack pokemon more than stallers. Primarina is a Pokemon that could benefit heavily from Trick Room.
Adding on to the Trick Room discussion, Magearna also benefits from it. It's probably the best Pokemon to use Trick Room with.
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Magearna is a must in a TR team.
It can set TR and abuses it.
Marowak, magnazone, mega Marwile, buzzwole (maybe thoughts), mega heracross, diggersby, magerna, azzumerl, and conkelder are all great tr mons eusauafazenda and although I have never done a tr team I can see these mons being used but volt turn/rain have become popular this gen me putting rain as a favorite amongst people in ou and something everyone must prep for.
Magnezone is outclassed by Bronzong.
Duggersby is outclassd by Ursaring
Yes the rest you are right.
i mean diggersby isn't outclassed by ursa, it has STAB EQ and U-Turn and doesn't need to wait for burn for power
and magnezone isn't outclassed by Bronzong at all because they literally do completely different things?! just because they're both slow steel types doesn't mean 1 outclasses the other...
Magnezone is way better then zong, zong is only for tr at best anyway. Diggersby has juge power and doesnt have 2 wait a turn for a boost, so once again what u say is wrong
Magnazone isn't outclassed as they do different things as bronzong is more of a bulky hazard setter (I assume not really relavent to the ou meta) and magnazone is used to trap and eliminate common threats in ou like ferrothorn off the top of my head.
If we are talking about TR, then I am talking about him in TR and that Magnezone isn't as good as bronzong in TR
Ferro was brought up because of zone and zone on tr could act as a trapper / wall break but ursaring.......idk tbh Then again I don't run tr but he was suggesting some obsurd ideas let's change topics.
I think Uxie is important for Trick Room teams as well, the ability to put Trick Room and Stealth Rock in the same slot, and has access to Memento, which creates momentum for your Trick Room abusers is something really important. At least that's my opinion, but I believe Uxie is an important part of this archetype as well
Uxie faces heavy competition from Bronzong. Bronzong has TR and Stealth Rock. He don't have Memento, but he has Explosion, that can deal damage to the TR abuser kill. And bronzong has a better typing, with psychic and steel. But yeah, I see your point.
Bronzong is not viable, if it were it would be ranked. If u truly believe it is better then Uxie please nom it on the OU VR explaining why it is better.
No, Uxie is far superior than Bronzong in TR (at least in the last months) as it can afford to carry white herb to avoid taunters and U-turn while keeping way better defensive stats. Bronzong could try this too in theory and use Explosion to escape, but it would mean a free switch in from Heatran which defeats notorious TR abusers like M-Mawile and Magearna. Uxie also doesn't get 2HKO by Band Ttar
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 116+ Def Uxie: 290-344 (81.9 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 116+ Def Uxie: 146-174 (41.2 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
I would like to mention aswell OTR Slowking. It was a good option in gen 6 TR (which was ass but whatever) and Regenerator comes in handy to set more TR throughout the game
Edit: Sorry bad englando
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 116+ Def Uxie: 290-344 (81.9 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 116+ Def Uxie: 146-174 (41.2 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
I would like to mention aswell OTR Slowking. It was a good option in gen 6 TR (which was ass but whatever) and Regenerator comes in handy to set more TR throughout the game
Edit: Sorry bad englando
I’ve dabbled in trick room myself, and it’s pretty cookie cutter this gen IMO. Magearna is the only thing ABSOLUTELY mandatory, but you’d have to have a really good reason not to use Mmaw, Alowak, and Uxie. Mmaw can be substituted for mega camel with some success, though mawile is superior in my opinion. Alowak has really great type synergy with the double steel/fairy core of mawile and magearna so you really can’t pass it up if you use mawile (plus it’s really perfect for the playstyle - idk why you’d want to). Uxie is the most expendable of the four as I see it. You could justify using another attacker or bulky setter over a suicide lead if you feel the meta favors it, but really Uxie is it if you want to go the suicide lead route.
That leaves you with two slots that can change. Cress usually occupies the fifth slot (which really SHOULD be some kind of bulky setter), and for good reason - it’s hard to pass up on a bulky setter that combines a ground immunity (which the near-mandatory core of Alowak, magearna, and mawile is obviously really weak to) with a way to restore the hp of your sweepers. That said, I’ve used other bulky setters such as porygon-2 to decent success.
So really, there’s only one slot that’s totally customizable. The famous TR team someone built awhile back had crawdaunt here, which is a fine choice, but really you could be justified in substituting a lot of things here as long as it has some kind of speed control for when TR isn’t up (usually a strong priority move).
That’s my two cents on full trick room teams. The good news is that, despite the lack of customizability, it can still win on high ladder if played well. What I think could really make waves right now are semi trick room teams, on which only magearna would be mandatory. I think the meta is really unprepared for a core of two or three mons who thrive under TR, if only because no one expects it. But that’s all theorymonning - I digress.
E: oops I wrote an essay sorry
That leaves you with two slots that can change. Cress usually occupies the fifth slot (which really SHOULD be some kind of bulky setter), and for good reason - it’s hard to pass up on a bulky setter that combines a ground immunity (which the near-mandatory core of Alowak, magearna, and mawile is obviously really weak to) with a way to restore the hp of your sweepers. That said, I’ve used other bulky setters such as porygon-2 to decent success.
So really, there’s only one slot that’s totally customizable. The famous TR team someone built awhile back had crawdaunt here, which is a fine choice, but really you could be justified in substituting a lot of things here as long as it has some kind of speed control for when TR isn’t up (usually a strong priority move).
That’s my two cents on full trick room teams. The good news is that, despite the lack of customizability, it can still win on high ladder if played well. What I think could really make waves right now are semi trick room teams, on which only magearna would be mandatory. I think the meta is really unprepared for a core of two or three mons who thrive under TR, if only because no one expects it. But that’s all theorymonning - I digress.
E: oops I wrote an essay sorry
Crawdaunt is a realy strong option. Adaptability is a strong ability, while Crab hammer and Knock Off are deadly stabs. Aqua jet can save hI'm outside TR, and he might even have Swords Dance to try to sweep late game.
I don’t disagree. Crawdaunt is great. Azumarill works too, as does Conkeldurr. Crawdaunt is probably the best for most cases but you could make an argument for something else.
Did you mean Uxie doesn'd get OHKO'd? That Crunch/switch-boosted Pursuit calc is clearly a 2HKO.
Also, a high roll on Crunch means Uxie dies after Sandstorm damage, so it technically can get OHKO'd anyway.
Even if you die to sandstorm, you still get your trick room off, so i wouldnt really count it as an ohko
im the dude who made the craw uxie cress mag maw alowak tr team for those who are wondering. just wanted to say that uxie runs max phy def so even with sand you get rocks/memento + room 100 pct of the time cuz that mon is ridiculously fat. also wanted to say that mag alowak uxie cress are the mons mandatory when making room imo. theres really no reason not to use alowak magearna and they pretty much define the playstyle. uxie is hands down just the best lead because it lets a mon set up and gives momentum. things like zong only give u momentum and getting free setup is so important when using trick room. cress is mandatory just cuz its hands down the the best secondary setter cuz it gives you healing wish and a ground immunity. the last two slots are honestly customizable as fuck like ive used bulu mawile, camel bulu, hell ive even used like rampardos and alolan egg but they just simply arent as good as craw maw. i also dont like the zyg version people have been using because zyg is trash in room because its walled by so much and because of that you end up wasting room turns and losing momentum. i think trick room is still super good rn its just kinda tricky to learn how to play around certain threats like ash gren and frens.
agreed. I'd like to ask about the offensive kartana volcorona variations i've been seeing currently. They consist of combinations of sub sd z night slash leaf blade and defog sd z sacred sword leaf blade. for volc i've been seeing sub swarm z bug buzz sets. I think these sets are pretty good against certain archetypes. what are your guys thoughts on these sets in current metagame
I use volcorano all the time and here are my ibservations;
Volcorano needs 3 coverage moves and quiver dance, its high hp and special defense allow it to survive at least 1 super effective special attack move (probably not hydro vortex with hydro pump/surf). I do not like substitute because there are many pokemon such as Aerodactyl who can resist both of Volcorano’s STAB moves, Volcorano needs Quiver Dance, Fiery Dance, Bug Buzz, and Giga Drain/Psychic.
I know people use giga drain for rock/water coverage however the moveset with giga drain gives dragonites a great chance to setup with dragon dance, meanwhile psychic gives volcorano a full neutral coverage allowing it only to be taken down by Azumarill/Crawdaunt’s aqua jet. I do not like Bugium Z Swarm volc due to 2 reasons.
#1 since mostly volc is taken down by physical attackers, flame body can inflict a burn which allows another one of your pokemon such as Mega Scizor or Cloyster to setup, meanwhile 1 quiver dance volcorano can OHKO many offensive threats and defensive threats such as umbreon and ferrothorn with bug buzz and fiery dance without the need of Swarm Bugium Z replaced with Flame Body Life Orb.
For Kartana I find swords dance kinda useless, it has an alternative version if moxie (beast boost) which raises its massive attack by 0.5x every kill. I prefer a choice scarf on kartana due to it getting outsped by common threats that can OHKO it like Gengar. Choice Scarf allows kartana to be a fast sweeper while raising attack every turn
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