Metagame Metagame Discussion Thread v4

[Deleted User 400951]

Well, Zapdos is a Fini switch in so with the Misty Terrain now Zard X cannot be Discharge paralyzed. Though Dragon Claw getting weaker sux, do not forget that it only applies to targets on the ground. Damage against Landorus-T, Lati, Zapdos is still the same and I feel like people forget about this. Still annoying against mons you would like to use Dragon Claw against like Zygarde and Kyurem-B, but the core itself sounds pretty good overall.

Do you guys use any bulkinvestment on 3 Atks Roost Zard X or just max Speed max Atk Jolly? I think you need that 328 Speed 100% and Roost should be enough for longevity.

Hey, good points! Anyways, I never run bulk investment on it unless I specifically use the SpD set, which I still believe is mediocre in this metagame and should not be used (I'll get to that). It needs the speed and attack to pose an adequate threat against many of the mons found on offense. In particular, Zygarde and Kyurem-Black hate taking Dragon Claws, and Zard X provides something valuable to its team by being able to take care of those two. If Fini handles them well enough you could even drop Dragon Claw and go for something else like maybe DD instead.

I honestly can't see bulky Zard X being very good in this meta. As it is, Zard X isn't all that great. It's weak to Rock and Ground, its speed tier isn't really fantastic and it has 4MSS. I don't see bulky Zard X doing well when all 3 of those types are running more and more rampant in this metagame. Diancie-Mega and Ttar both just got much better with the Dugtrio ban - which in itself helped bulky Zard X a lot - and do way too much to it. The 100 Speed Tier is very important for Zard X as otherwise many mons like Zygarde and Kyurem-Black can outspeed and just straight-up kill it. I definitely wouldn't slash Wisp at all and just unslash SD, because it really needs it to hold much against many threats that could otherwise switch into it freely. Wisp is what makes it able to function against a lot of the meta. Definitely use wisp in this metagame. That being said, it's not particularly that bad, I could see it working decently well but it's not really optimal.

I'm glad that people are finally beginning to realize that Zard X doesn't have to be a DD sweeper, and is rather bad at being one. It's much better off as a breaker or even as a bulky mon. With this I hope that people develop it more and maybe it'll get a better standing in the meta.
So much for my dreams of sweeping uu with it... maybe next gen...

 

[Gary]

Well, Zapdos is a Fini switch in so with the Misty Terrain now Zard X cannot be Discharge paralyzed. Though Dragon Claw getting weaker sux, do not forget that it only applies to targets on the ground. Damage against Landorus-T, Lati, Zapdos is still the same and I feel like people forget about this. Still annoying against mons you would like to use Dragon Claw against like Zygarde and Kyurem-B, but the core itself sounds pretty good overall.

Do you guys use any bulkinvestment on 3 Atks Roost Zard X or just max Speed max Atk Jolly? I think you need that 328 Speed 100% and Roost should be enough for longevity.

Just max Atk max Speed Jolly is best imo. This set is 100% a breaker first and foremost, its defensive typing is only an added bonus. Without full investment, shit like Specs Lele can outspeed you which is pretty unfortunate, meanwhile Blitz just annihilates it. I've seen some people run bulk on it for Koko, but considering how amazing Specs Koko is atm and can 2HKO Zard-X anyway, you're probably better off just using something else like Ferro or Tang as your Koko check and Zard-x as like a backup. It can 1v1 Specs Koko from full although a Specs Volt Switch will do a million. Only Zard-X set worth running bulk on is bulky DD, but I'm not really a big fan Zard-X sets walled by Tran or CB T-tar food. I guess fat Wisp sets too but I have only seen a few of those this gen and offensive Zard-X is pretty solid in general atm anyway.

 

[King Sceptile]

One Zardx set that I've been exploring is SD + Flare Blitz + Thunder Punch + Roost with Tapu Koko support. +2 TPunch in terrain absolutely blows back EQ targets and Flare Blitz can do a ton to even resistances at +2. Obviously this set struggles vs unaware quagsire, but stall with pretty much any other combination of Pokémon autoloses. I think that roost + 3 attacks is still the best set for general use, but this was just a fun set I've been using that I wanted to bring up.

 

[robopoke]

Just max Atk max Speed Jolly is best imo. This set is 100% a breaker first and foremost, its defensive typing is only an added bonus. Without full investment, shit like Specs Lele can outspeed you which is pretty unfortunate, meanwhile Blitz just annihilates it. I've seen some people run bulk on it for Koko, but considering how amazing Specs Koko is atm and can 2HKO Zard-X anyway, you're probably better off just using something else like Ferro or Tang as your Koko check and Zard-x as like a backup. It can 1v1 Specs Koko from full although a Specs Volt Switch will do a million. Only Zard-X set worth running bulk on is bulky DD, but I'm not really a big fan Zard-X sets walled by Tran or CB T-tar food. I guess fat Wisp sets too but I have only seen a few of those this gen and offensive Zard-X is pretty solid in general atm anyway.

Yea, you 100% need the 328 Speed. I made a few calcs today and came to the conclusion that this spread might be worth using over standard max atk max Speed.

Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 56 HP / 200 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Roost

Some calcs with the HPinvestment:
252 SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Charizard-Mega-X in Psychic Terrain: 253-298 (81.3 - 95.8%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Charizard-Mega-X: 262-309 (84.2 - 99.3%) (this one I feel is very important)
252 SpA Choice Specs Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Charizard-Mega-X: 267-315 (85.8 - 101.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO (just a bonus)

The HPinvestment also makes sure you 100% live +1 Ice Beam from Magearna in addition to the Flare Blitz recoil so you can actually check it without dying.

The atkinvestment still gives u key rolls:
200 Atk Charizard-Mega-X Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 404-476 (104.9 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
200 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tangrowth: 404-476 (100 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
200 Atk Charizard-Mega-X Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Marowak-Alola: 194-230 (74.3 - 88.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Talpr0ne]

So, since Gold and Silver for Virtual Console are out now, do we get anything more interesting than Curse Mega Scizor from them?

 

[JTD783]

So, since Gold and Silver for Virtual Console are out now, do we get anything more interesting than Curse Mega Scizor from them?

If I remember correctly we get a legal Azumarill with Sap Sipper + Whirlpool + Perish Song, making it a neat trapper since it has only two weaknesses (electric and poison) and is pretty damn fat. Basically Whirlpool, Perish Song, Toxic / Scald, and Rest is the optimal set from what I can tell. I think I heard that Curse on Scizor and Dragonite will be a thing as well.

Most important is that transferring mons from GS to SM / USUM can't happen until sometime this winter; I forget why. We can't do much for the time being.

I can't guarantee this is 100% accurate but I believe this is the case. Hopefully someone can fact-check.

 

[Vengeance417]

So, since Gold and Silver for Virtual Console are out now, do we get anything more interesting than Curse Mega Scizor from them?

While not that great of an option for these two, Alakazam and Slowbro get Zap Cannon from its TM, meaning they'll have a very strong Gigavolt Havoc when used with Electrium Z. There are others such as Gengar, Starmie, and Dragonite, but they already have access to Thunder/Thunderbolt which means there's no reason to use Zap Cannon on these mons over the more accurate options.

You could probably make Zap Cannon Mega Zam work alongside Gravity Lando-T or something, but that's super gimmicky.

Other than that, not much else. Body Slam + Iron Tail + Sheer Force Tauros is now legal, which will surely make waves in OU. /s

 

[StarryAstrophysicist]

Just wanted to share a set that I've been using with success on a few balance builds.

Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 228 Def / 32 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Defog
- Roost
- Thunder Wave / Toxic

This set functions like defensive Mew does as a bulky defogger, with the exception that it checks a mostly different set of Pokemon and lacks Will-O-Wisp. The given EV spread outspeeds Adamant Landorus-T and Zygarde, allowing it to OHKO them in a pinch (though it should probably not stay in on Zygarde). It still checks Landorus-T and M-Medicham lacking Ice Punch, while also checking most variants of Tapu Koko lacking Dazzling Gleam, Keldeo, M-Swampert, Skarmory, etc. It works excellently with the CelePex core, checking most electric types that can threaten the core while also being a good defogger, with Celesteela and Toxapex helping to mitigate its weaknesses to Fairy, Dragon, and Ice. Those weaknesses, however, are the main reason it can be outclassed by Mew, as it is often forced out by most D-Dance sweepers and Mawile, which can give them all free setup, whereas Mew can often cripple them with WoW. Basically, if you want a less bulky Mew that lacks WoW but has more resistances and good synergy with CelePex or on bulky SFD (edit: idk if they're still relevant, haven't used 'em in a while, guess not) cores, choose Latias.

Edit: Forgot to mention that this was if you choose not to run Latiasite, whoops. Latiasite is way bulkier than this without any Def/SpD investment so it can take advantage of its decent speed tier, but this is another set if you choose not to run it.

 

[Deleted User 400951]

Just wanted to share a set that I've been using with success on a few balance builds.

Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 228 Def / 32 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Defog
- Roost
- Thunder Wave / Toxic

This set functions like defensive Mew does as a bulky defogger, with the exception that it checks a mostly different set of Pokemon and lacks Will-O-Wisp. The given EV spread outspeeds Adamant Landorus-T and Zygarde, allowing it to OHKO them in a pinch (though it should probably not stay in on Zygarde). It still checks Landorus-T and M-Medicham lacking Ice Punch, while also checking most variants of Tapu Koko lacking Dazzling Gleam, Keldeo, M-Swampert, Skarmory, etc. It works excellently with the CelePex core, checking most electric types that can threaten the core while also being a good defogger, with Celesteela and Toxapex helping to mitigate its weaknesses to Fairy, Dragon, and Ice. Those weaknesses, however, are the main reason it can be outclassed by Mew, as it is often forced out by most D-Dance sweepers and Mawile, which can give them all free setup, whereas Mew can often cripple them with WoW. Basically, if you want a less bulky Mew that lacks WoW but has more resistances and good synergy with CelePex or on bulky SFD cores, choose Latias.

I'd personally use Latiasite because it's just that much bulkier. In particular, the physical bulk is noticeably better - 80/90 doesn't really cut it in this meta unless you have an invaluable typing essential to the best functioning of a team archetype like Zapdos with 90/85. Dragon/Psychic isn't stellar enough to get off with otherwise only average bulk. I'd definitely say this is much better as the mega form.

 

[robopoke]

[...] or on bulky SFD cores[...]

You should cover threats, not types. As a beginner it is not a bad idea to focus on types when building a team, but even then I would recommend something like SSG for two Steels and a Groundtype as a starting point.

Other than that Thunder Wave+Ice Beam is a nasty combination but 290 Speed Latias is just not viable. You are taking away from Latias great speed just to have some arbitrary physical bulk that you will regret 100% more, than not having max Speed. Latias always needs the speed because the speedtier from 290 until 350 is too crowded, which is why Mega Latias is a blessing. Bulky just with max HP and max Speed.

If you are interested in using Mew with the same Set, you can try this spread:

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 240 HP / 108 Def / 48 SpD / 112 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Ice Beam
- Thunder Wave
- Roost

Enough Spd to eat Specs Darkpulse from Greninja even after Rocks if you can get one round of Leftovers to Thunder Wave it while also eating two Specs Psychics from Lele after Rocks. EVs in HP maximize recovery from Leftovers, Spe for Adamant Zygarde and rest into Def.

 

[StarryAstrophysicist]

I'd personally use Latiasite because it's just that much bulkier. In particular, the physical bulk is noticeably better - 80/90 doesn't really cut it in this meta unless you have an invaluable typing essential to the best functioning of a team archetype like Zapdos with 90/85. Dragon/Psychic isn't stellar enough to get off with otherwise only average bulk. I'd definitely say this is much better as the mega form.

Sorry, I forgot that it was if you chose not to run Latiasite lol. Yeah, I would use Latiasite because it is MUCH better, but I often want to use another mon for the Mega slot, so I chose this set.

You should cover threats, not types. As a beginner it is not a bad idea to focus on types when building a team, but even then I would recommend something like SSG for two Steels and a Groundtype as a starting point.

Other than that Thunder Wave+Ice Beam is a nasty combination but 290 Speed Latias is just not viable. You are taking away from Latias great speed just to have some arbitrary physical bulk that you will regret 100% more, than not having max Speed. Latias always needs the speed because the speedtier from 290 until 350 is too crowded, which is why Mega Latias is a blessing. Bulky just with max HP and max Speed.

If you are interested in using Mew with the same Set, you can try this spread:

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 240 HP / 108 Def / 48 SpD / 112 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Ice Beam
- Thunder Wave
- Roost

Enough Spd to eat Specs Darkpulse from Greninja even after Rocks if you can get one round of Leftovers to Thunder Wave it while also eating two Specs Psychics from Lele after Rocks. EVs in HP maximize recovery from Leftovers, Spe for Adamant Zygarde and rest into Def.

Yeah, this set is p cool and all, but it's just not what I was running non-Mega Latias for. I use Latias for its more resistances rather than its suboptimal bulk that allows it to check a much different part of the metagame, trading weaknesses to Dragon and Fairy types for the ability to check Tapu Koko and Swampert, and allowing me to still run another Mega Evolution. I like Mew and M-Latias and understand that Latias is outclassed by both of them, but regular Latias is a pretty (read: very) niche mon that I like to use on balance builds over Mew for its resistances.

(Lol I didn't know SFD cores were out of the metagame by now. I honestly should know better jeez)

 

[Altervisi]

Speaking of Latias and SpD mon's has anyone else seen a drop in Greninja usage lately? I was gonna post to viability about lowering the rank but I'm really not a seasoned enough player so I wanted other opinions. I feel like it is so easy to revenge kill, as a lot of people are using slower scarfers, Tapu Koko and priority. There's also now more bulky offensive teams after the AT ban. From what I've seen any reasonable amount of special bulk, (Latias, AV Magearna/Tangrowth, Chansey, hell even Zard X, etc) or general bulk (Ferro, Celepex, Clef, Mew) can just stop it dead as long as they're not 4x weak to anything.

Protean lacks the speed and SpA to really thrive with people either outspeeding or just tanking the shots, seeing as it doesn't really make sense to choice lock it its good but not great. Using Battle Bond means slashing the potential movepool really and water shuriken just sucks before getting a kill, plus the other STAB in Hydro Pump can fck you with its accuracy, Dark Pulse I rarely see KO anything, with so many Fairy and Fighting types, lastly for BB there are so many U-Turn users that can revenge kill or swap in and steal momentum.

Like I said I'm not incredibly experienced, only been into OU for about 2 years now (around 1680 peak) and posting here for a couple of weeks so don't go crazy if you disagree, seen a few toxic peeps around.

 

[Adri]

I don't think greg is "worse" right now than some months ago. A lot of the mons you speak about were already fairly common (AV Mag, Celes, Toxapex... All of these have always been quite common in SM OU). And yet greg was S rank. The thing with this mon is that it is very versatile. Like half the mon you spoke about can lose to greg if it is ash greg for instance (sending tias into ashgreg is quite a bad idea, zard X will take a ton of damages, same goes for mew, cele will still take a good chunk, especially as most cele are physically defensive right now, and toxapex can even fear the flinch, even though it's still a pretty good answer) and some even fear the protean one (GS for clef, HP fire for ferro, some even run extrasensory for pex and Keldeo). But the real reason why it's still a very good mon right now is the fact that it is the best spiker of the meta. Like, it's the only viable spiker that can pressure both most common defogers (mew, lati@s, skarm, even zapdos that can fear Ice Beam) and Sableye-mega. And balanced teams are everywhere right now, so being able to wear them down with spikes is a huge advantage.

So, you're right when you say that greninja will always have several counters, but as these counters mostly depends on his set, your opponent will have to check what exactly it is, and you can abuse that to set the spikes (which really are good right now) or just try some predicts and potentially kill/weaken a lot a mon.

 

[volx757]

Speaking of Latias and SpD mon's has anyone else seen a drop in Greninja usage lately? I was gonna post to viability about lowering the rank but I'm really not a seasoned enough player so I wanted other opinions. I feel like it is so easy to revenge kill, as a lot of people are using slower scarfers, Tapu Koko and priority. There's also now more bulky offensive teams after the AT ban. From what I've seen any reasonable amount of special bulk, (Latias, AV Magearna/Tangrowth, Chansey, hell even Zard X, etc) or general bulk (Ferro, Celepex, Clef, Mew) can just stop it dead as long as they're not 4x weak to anything.

Protean lacks the speed and SpA to really thrive with people either outspeeding or just tanking the shots, seeing as it doesn't really make sense to choice lock it its good but not great. Using Battle Bond means slashing the potential movepool really and water shuriken just sucks before getting a kill, plus the other STAB in Hydro Pump can fck you with its accuracy, Dark Pulse I rarely see KO anything, with so many Fairy and Fighting types, lastly for BB there are so many U-Turn users that can revenge kill or swap in and steal momentum.

Like I said I'm not incredibly experienced, only been into OU for about 2 years now (around 1680 peak) and posting here for a couple of weeks so don't go crazy if you disagree, seen a few toxic peeps around.

Of all the defensive stops to gren that you listed, AV Magearna and Chansey are the only ones that can actually claim to stop p much any ninja set. Even then, Chansey is 3HKOd by uninvested gunk shot after a hazard or with a poison, so greninja can pressure it quite easily, even more so if it's running taunt.
Lati, Tang, CharX, Ferro, Celesteela, Clefable and Mew are all outsped and OHKOd/2HKOd by the right coverage, so none of them are checks until you figure out the set.

I think you are really underselling the power of STAB, LO, SE hits. That's 3.9x the regular power for ninja's coverage moves. Or ofc for BB, it's situation is near-specs-hoopa levels of power, but with an incredible speed tier and very powerful priority.
To me greninja is a mon that's as good as it's user. If played recklessly or incorrectly, it's likely to do nothing in a match (well lets be serious its greninja it'll have done something), but a well played greninja (choosing when to reveal certain moves, reading scarfed uturns, predicting switchins, etc.) can still devastate most teams. I still reach for a greninja in many of the teams I build, and others do, too:

usage

volx757:.usage greninja
*TIBot:Greninja - #7 in OU | Usage: 12.55257% | Raw count: 497,735 | Weight: 0.608731970502
volx757:.usage1825 greninja
*TIBot:Greninja - #19 in OU | Usage: 11.98348% | Raw count: 497,735 | Weight: 0.00861578217741
volx757:.usage1695 greninja
*TIBot:Greninja - #11 in OU | Usage: 13.10384% | Raw count: 497,735 | Weight: 0.0905318269596

Protean ninja excels at breaking balance cores. Spikes is huge and ninja is the best user in the tier, but it's ninja's vast, powerful coverage that seals it at the top tier for me. (or raw offensive prowess for bb)

 

[robopoke]

Spikes Greninja is always good but it is worse on Protean variants. There can be situations where it is nice to block Volt Switch but turning into a Groundtype sucks against Toxapex Scalding or losing resistance to Heavy Slam against Celesteela.

4 atks Protean Greninja is always walled by a Set of mons sadly. Gunk Shot, Hydro Pump, Z-Extrasensory, HP Fire is probably the Set I like the most.
The only real walls to this Set are probably Psychictypes like Mew, Mega Lati but with Specs Lele as a teammate you can get free switches against those defensive answers while abusing the Psychic Terrain for huge damage against mons like Zygarde, Zard Y, Zapdos, Gastrodon, Mantine:

252 SpA Protean Greninja Shattered Psyche (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y in Psychic Terrain: 297-351 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Protean Greninja Shattered Psyche (160 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde in Psychic Terrain: 348-411 (97.2 - 114.8%)
252 SpA Protean Greninja Shattered Psyche (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos in Psychic Terrain: 364-429 (95 - 112%)
252 SpA Protean Greninja Shattered Psyche (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon in Psychic Terrain: 271-321 (63.6 - 75.3%)
252 SpA Protean Greninja Shattered Psyche (160 BP) vs. 240 HP / 72+ SpD Mantine in Psychic Terrain: 214-253 (57.6 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Against Gastro and Mantine you can attempt to flinch it in a 1vs1 situation but if you Extrasensory/Gunk Shot on the switch in Psychic Terrain, you can OHKO Gastro/Mantinet with Z-Extrasensory after Rocks. Against Gastro it is a roll, so you need an additional Spike to guarantee the kill.

Greninja @ Psychium Z
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Extrasensory
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Gunk Shot

 

[Altervisi]

Of all the defensive stops to gren that you listed, AV Magearna and Chansey are the only ones that can actually claim to stop p much any ninja set. Even then, Chansey is 3HKOd by uninvested gunk shot after a hazard or with a poison, so greninja can pressure it quite easily, even more so if it's running taunt.
Lati, Tang, CharX, Ferro, Celesteela, Clefable and Mew are all outsped and OHKOd/2HKOd by the right coverage, so none of them are checks until you figure out the set.

I think you are really underselling the power of STAB, LO, SE hits. That's 3.9x the regular power for ninja's coverage moves. Or ofc for BB, it's situation is near-specs-hoopa levels of power, but with an incredible speed tier and very powerful priority.
To me greninja is a mon that's as good as it's user. If played recklessly or incorrectly, it's likely to do nothing in a match (well lets be serious its greninja it'll have done something), but a well played greninja (choosing when to reveal certain moves, reading scarfed uturns, predicting switchins, etc.) can still devastate most teams. I still reach for a greninja in many of the teams I build, and others do, too:

usage

volx757:.usage greninja
*TIBot:Greninja - #7 in OU | Usage: 12.55257% | Raw count: 497,735 | Weight: 0.608731970502
volx757:.usage1825 greninja
*TIBot:Greninja - #19 in OU | Usage: 11.98348% | Raw count: 497,735 | Weight: 0.00861578217741
volx757:.usage1695 greninja
*TIBot:Greninja - #11 in OU | Usage: 13.10384% | Raw count: 497,735 | Weight: 0.0905318269596

Protean ninja excels at breaking balance cores. Spikes is huge and ninja is the best user in the tier, but it's ninja's vast, powerful coverage that seals it at the top tier for me. (or raw offensive prowess for bb)

Spikes Greninja is always good but it is worse on Protean variants. There can be situations where it is nice to block Volt Switch but turning into a Groundtype sucks against Toxapex Scalding or losing resistance to Heavy Slam against Celesteela.

4 atks Protean Greninja is always walled by a Set of mons sadly. Gunk Shot, Hydro Pump, Z-Extrasensory, HP Fire is probably the Set I like the most.
The only real walls to this Set are probably Psychictypes like Mew, Mega Lati but with Specs Lele as a teammate you can get free switches against those defensive answers while abusing the Psychic Terrain for huge damage against mons like Zygarde, Zard Y, Zapdos, Gastrodon, Mantine:

252 SpA Protean Greninja Shattered Psyche (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y in Psychic Terrain: 297-351 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Protean Greninja Shattered Psyche (160 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde in Psychic Terrain: 348-411 (97.2 - 114.8%)
252 SpA Protean Greninja Shattered Psyche (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos in Psychic Terrain: 364-429 (95 - 112%)
252 SpA Protean Greninja Shattered Psyche (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon in Psychic Terrain: 271-321 (63.6 - 75.3%)
252 SpA Protean Greninja Shattered Psyche (160 BP) vs. 240 HP / 72+ SpD Mantine in Psychic Terrain: 214-253 (57.6 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Against Gastro and Mantine you can attempt to flinch it in a 1vs1 situation but if you Extrasensory/Gunk Shot on the switch in Psychic Terrain, you can OHKO Gastro/Mantinet with Z-Extrasensory after Rocks. Against Gastro it is a roll, so you need an additional Spike to guarantee the kill.

Greninja @ Psychium Z
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Extrasensory
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Gunk Shot

Thanks for being totally reasonable in your replies:D I guess because I am sort of at the top of low ladder (rather than bottom of high ladder) people misuse Ninja a lot and due to it's frailty its quite easy to outplay in that case.

 

[LeNorm]

Can someone explain why the smogon page for Greninja lists Dual Hazards first - I always thought they organised from most to least viable sets, and that Dual Hazards isn't as good as (say) Spikes + 3 attacks, for instance? Has the set recently got a lot more use/viable? Thanks!

http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/greninja/

 

[Jordy]

Can someone explain why the smogon page for Greninja lists Dual Hazards first - I always thought they organised from most to least viable sets, and that Dual Hazards isn't as good as (say) Spikes + 3 attacks, for instance? Has the set recently got a lot more use/viable? Thanks!

http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/greninja/

Right now i personally think Greninja's Dual Hazard set is the best, it's obviously objective but i suppose the people running smogdex think that too.

 

[JinLong88]

How is Kartana now in today's meta? As part of an offensive core, what other offensive mons would pair well with it?
Are there a good number of ppl that use Kart without a z-move, and if so what item instead? Thanks

 

[Gary]

How is Kartana now in today's meta? As part of an offensive core, what other offensive mons would pair well with it?
Are there a good number of ppl that use Kart without a z-move, and if so what item instead? Thanks

Kartana is a pretty solid breaker atm. It pairs well with a lot of offensive Pokemon because of its breaking abilities, such as Tapu Lele, Greninja, Tapu Koko, etc. The analysis lists way more. Outside of Scarf, it's very rarely seen running any other item other than Z moves, because it needs the extra power behind its moves to really muscle through stuff like Celesteela, Skarmory, and Mega Scizor.

Make sure to ask these kinds of questions in the SQSA thread.

 

[smogonModsAreTrash]

No suspect discussion. This is not the place to talk about potential suspects/bans.

Where is the place to discuss suspect tests? I looked in each forum and there doesn't seem to be a place. It's been a while since the last suspect test. Is there going to be another suspect? Are we waiting on OLT/snake draft to finish? Is there an actual thread/forum where people that play in OU get to voice their opinions on what should be suspected, or is it more or less totalitarian in that people get banned and their posts are removed while waiting/hoping that a few arbitrarily selected people decide to suspect the right mon *cough* Magearna.

 

[Leo]

Where is the place to discuss suspect tests? I looked in each forum and there doesn't seem to be a place. It's been a while since the last suspect test. Is there going to be another suspect? Are we waiting on OLT/snake draft to finish? Is there an actual thread/forum where people that play in OU get to voice their opinions on what should be suspected, or is it more or less totalitarian in that people get banned and their posts are removed while waiting/hoping that a few arbitrarily selected people decide to suspect the right mon *cough* Magearna.

This should be self explanatory, but there's no such thread because potential suspect discussion usually doesn't lead to anything and threads regarding potential suspects would be flooded with theorymon, if you believe something deserves a suspect you can PM any council member with your arguments. Although this is the Metagame discussion thread, these questions don't really belong here but rather in the SQSA thread so if you have any other concern regarding forums rules post there instead, thanks

 

[ladderious]

What seems to be trending in the metagame rn is sub night slash leaf blade sd kartana. This set allows it to avoid status and be a dangerous sweeper. It really threatens balances from what ive seen and also other playstyles like webs and aurora veil. z night slash allows it to break threw mew and alolan-maro. overall it seems like a decent set. what yall thoughts on this set?

 

[TURBODERP]

What seems to be trending in the metagame rn is sub night slash leaf blade sd kartana. This set allows it to avoid status and be a dangerous sweeper. It really threatens balances from what ive seen and also other playstyles like webs and aurora veil. z night slash allows it to break threw mew and alolan-maro. overall it seems like a decent set. what yall thoughts on this set?

It's a damn good set. Muscles past normal answers like Zapdos and Celesteela after hazards and/or a tiny bit of chip, and Toxapex can't even break Sub with the right spread, so Pex becomes set-up fodder or just gets nailed for a ton (also Leaf Blade has a decent crit ratio, so you can just stay in and go for the crit as a viable option).

 

[The Faz]

Thoughts on Trick Room?
Many good pokémons are slow. Magearna, by example. And the meta has many, many fast ones that can't take many hits - Greninjá, Tapu Koko, etc.

And gen 7 brought many strong, but slow pokémons. Tapu Bulu, Vikavolt, Alola-Marowak, Magearna, etc.
And do yours think that Stall Trick Room wold be viable? Many stall pokémons are slow - Chanse, Sableye , ferro thorn, etc.
Those can, under TR, use Disable or something like that so that scares be forced to struggle. Also, stall makes many free turns. And Iron Ball ditto would be useful, underspeedin the oponent under TR. Anyways. What do yours think?