For post bank, stall breaker mew beats coil zygard. It's a massive pain to do now that burn only does 1/16 per turn, but it does do it. Mew really appreciated the fact that there aren't as many strong pursuit trappers about at the moment.
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Metagame Metagame Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Celticpride
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Yeah Zygarde needs to be handled immediately, I'm pretty sure the great minds of Policy Review can debate how but it's really suffocating the meta atm. Speaking of the meta, rejoice bored pokebattlers, for the meta is new and full of strange stuff:
1) Speed (meta)Game: Choice scarfers are back! Weird af speed stats and even weirder pokemon has made this item popular again, what with all the hail rushers and swift swimmers and scarfed ultra beasts/tapus buzzing around and Greninja/Genesect scouting around...
2) Weather/Terrain overlap: I posted a team about this but the overlapping effects can be beneficial to an absurd degree, with Pellipper + Koko cores and Blue Ninetales + Tapu Lele/Mew-zium making you enjoy your weather in ways you couldn't imagine before...if that's enough you got double rushers and double swift swimmers to add to the mix
3) Unkillable: Aegislash being a pain in the ass is nothing new, but Toxa is surprisingly just as worrisome to kill, and if those two don't tickle your fancy (I have no idea what I'm saying just roll with it) you got 100% Zygarde to really end your dreams and matches
4) What happened to priorities? Can't find them anywhere
5) Z-Crystals: Porgyon-Z with his conversion, eevee boost all stats raised and guaranteed ghost typing (shadowball first move) along with adaptability and boltbeam + ball spam a wrecking machine. You also got Z-Belly Drums, Stoked spark surfers and all sorts of one time nukes
Edit: Come back mons?
1) Conkeldurr: He's got Mach punch, the bulk and doesn't care much about Ice Slush and Polar bear are doing
2) Skarmory: He has a good typing to handle those physical ultra beasts, hazards seem to be in order too
3) Ferrothorn: See above plus his typing has a one up on Tapu Koko and his surfer dude
1) Speed (meta)Game: Choice scarfers are back! Weird af speed stats and even weirder pokemon has made this item popular again, what with all the hail rushers and swift swimmers and scarfed ultra beasts/tapus buzzing around and Greninja/Genesect scouting around...
2) Weather/Terrain overlap: I posted a team about this but the overlapping effects can be beneficial to an absurd degree, with Pellipper + Koko cores and Blue Ninetales + Tapu Lele/Mew-zium making you enjoy your weather in ways you couldn't imagine before...if that's enough you got double rushers and double swift swimmers to add to the mix
3) Unkillable: Aegislash being a pain in the ass is nothing new, but Toxa is surprisingly just as worrisome to kill, and if those two don't tickle your fancy (I have no idea what I'm saying just roll with it) you got 100% Zygarde to really end your dreams and matches
4) What happened to priorities? Can't find them anywhere
5) Z-Crystals: Porgyon-Z with his conversion, eevee boost all stats raised and guaranteed ghost typing (shadowball first move) along with adaptability and boltbeam + ball spam a wrecking machine. You also got Z-Belly Drums, Stoked spark surfers and all sorts of one time nukes
Edit: Come back mons?
1) Conkeldurr: He's got Mach punch, the bulk and doesn't care much about Ice Slush and Polar bear are doing
2) Skarmory: He has a good typing to handle those physical ultra beasts, hazards seem to be in order too
3) Ferrothorn: See above plus his typing has a one up on Tapu Koko and his surfer dude
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I've had good results with Serperior recently. It checks Zygarde reasonably well, and you can partner it with Tapu Bulu to make Leaf Storm stupidly powerful.
Also, Toxipex. Tapus might be broken but those can wait.
Right. For comparison, XY was also a little rough to start with because we had bullshit like Blaziken and Deoxys running around for no real reason. I'll consider this week or so just another one of those growing pains that we tend to go through in figuring out a new meta.
For the record, though, this meta is pretty shitty and unfun.
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Let's keep this sentiment going, please. I have no intention of staying quiet about this crap.
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The metagame has descended into total bs already.
Zygarde-Complete is the primary offender right now. That thing needs to go ASAP. It's just stupid, has very few checks (I am running Unaware Clef just to deal with this thing), and is extremely boring to face. Zygarde vs Zygarde is also extremely tedious.
I am actually surprised on the calls for Landorus to be banned already though. It might prove broken down the line once all the other super broken stuff gets banned, but I think it's far too early to conclude its broken. Imo it at least deserves a chance in a post-Zygarde, Pheromosa, Aegislash meta.
Zygarde-Complete is the primary offender right now. That thing needs to go ASAP. It's just stupid, has very few checks (I am running Unaware Clef just to deal with this thing), and is extremely boring to face. Zygarde vs Zygarde is also extremely tedious.
I am actually surprised on the calls for Landorus to be banned already though. It might prove broken down the line once all the other super broken stuff gets banned, but I think it's far too early to conclude its broken. Imo it at least deserves a chance in a post-Zygarde, Pheromosa, Aegislash meta.
Well, Newcomer!!!!
I find Minior extremely fun to use... Shell Smash + Focus Sash (or White Herb... I prefer Focus Sash because the lowered defenses makes it easier to put it in the shields down range) alongside Tapu Lele makes it unstoppable. It outspeeds non-scarf Pheromosa after 1 Shell Smash in Star Form and cannot be status at the start, making it a fairly good against stalll... it just HAD to avoid rocks... (P.S. HOW THE HECK IS MINIOR HIT BY ESPEED EVEN IN PSYCHIC TERRAIN? THAT ALWAYS END MY SWEEP! I just wanted to say something about this bug that happens when Psychic Terrain is supposed to go to zero but Terrain Extender lengthens it... It was always exploited when the terrain is supposed to be over)
Zygarde-Complete and Pheromosa are too powerful in the Meta right now... Pheromosa is simply a M-Beedrill Mix Attacker that has either Moxie or Soul Heart as an ability, replacing Adaptability, and Zygarde-Complete is too bulky in the tier... Dragon Dance up and Thousand Arrows + Espeed = GG.
Also, Greninja might not be broken that much in the tier... but it always pains me to predict which Greninja I have to face...Maybe because I fear Ash-Greninja more than Protean Greninja in my team.
Also, Toxapex and Ferrothorn are good Defensive Cores, both of which can cover resistance on all attacks except Ground (which is easy patched up in Balanced, as Flying types are good offensive cores).
Also, I find the lack of some Megas disturbing for me... I tried to make a Dual Mag Dual Fairy Team, and since I can't use Diancie, I am forced to use Tapu Lele to deal with Priority.
On the side note, Mimikyu is pretty powerful. Heck, it even surpassed Pikachu on usefulness!
I find Minior extremely fun to use... Shell Smash + Focus Sash (or White Herb... I prefer Focus Sash because the lowered defenses makes it easier to put it in the shields down range) alongside Tapu Lele makes it unstoppable. It outspeeds non-scarf Pheromosa after 1 Shell Smash in Star Form and cannot be status at the start, making it a fairly good against stalll... it just HAD to avoid rocks... (P.S. HOW THE HECK IS MINIOR HIT BY ESPEED EVEN IN PSYCHIC TERRAIN? THAT ALWAYS END MY SWEEP! I just wanted to say something about this bug that happens when Psychic Terrain is supposed to go to zero but Terrain Extender lengthens it... It was always exploited when the terrain is supposed to be over)
Zygarde-Complete and Pheromosa are too powerful in the Meta right now... Pheromosa is simply a M-Beedrill Mix Attacker that has either Moxie or Soul Heart as an ability, replacing Adaptability, and Zygarde-Complete is too bulky in the tier... Dragon Dance up and Thousand Arrows + Espeed = GG.
Also, Greninja might not be broken that much in the tier... but it always pains me to predict which Greninja I have to face...Maybe because I fear Ash-Greninja more than Protean Greninja in my team.
Also, Toxapex and Ferrothorn are good Defensive Cores, both of which can cover resistance on all attacks except Ground (which is easy patched up in Balanced, as Flying types are good offensive cores).
Also, I find the lack of some Megas disturbing for me... I tried to make a Dual Mag Dual Fairy Team, and since I can't use Diancie, I am forced to use Tapu Lele to deal with Priority.
On the side note, Mimikyu is pretty powerful. Heck, it even surpassed Pikachu on usefulness!
What? Why? Toxapex is balanced by the fact that it really can't hurt people. It's damage is too damn low.
Doesn't matter when you can just wall everything to hell and back. Zygarde-C, Tapu Koko and Dugtrio are problems for it but everything else struggles to put the hurt on it.
Toxapex is beaten by Lando, Tapu Lele... it's not un-killable, and all it does is switch out for the regenerator boosts
On what planet do the Tapu's need to be banned? All of them have their obvious counters, they're just the new strong OU poke's.
Minior doesn't benefit from terrain because it's a flying-type.
Not saying Tapus need to be banned. I'm saying they might be too strong later (Terrains) so we wait and see how things develop before making a decision on them.
The only thing that is CLEARLY BUSTED right now is Zygarde 100%. It's not a meta thing, either, it's just...you look at the pokemon and you're like "Why is this Uber in OU?"
I've been pretty vocal (along with quite a few other people) about Aegislash not being ban-worthy (yet) this gen. I'd like to see it get a chance. All of its old checks still exist, and it gets flat walled by Toxapex, for one.
People talking about a Toxapex ban are delusional. Electric, Psychic, and Ground STABs still wreck it, not to mention Taunt. Is this the part where we just ban any Pokemon we don't like?
X5Dragon I haven't seen many successful Conkeldurr since 5th gen...introduction of Fairy really hurt it. Where are you seeing it shine?
I've been pretty vocal (along with quite a few other people) about Aegislash not being ban-worthy (yet) this gen. I'd like to see it get a chance. All of its old checks still exist, and it gets flat walled by Toxapex, for one.
People talking about a Toxapex ban are delusional. Electric, Psychic, and Ground STABs still wreck it, not to mention Taunt. Is this the part where we just ban any Pokemon we don't like?
X5Dragon I haven't seen many successful Conkeldurr since 5th gen...introduction of Fairy really hurt it. Where are you seeing it shine?
Oh... OK, thanks for the clarification...
Sp.Def A-Marowak also does exteremely well against aegislash. I really don't feel itll ever be overly centralizing even after the phero ban.
I mean, it's not like Marowak can switch into a Shadow Ball, but Aegislash can't switch into Marowak either. In the 1v1, Marowak outspeeds and OHKOs with Shadow Bone, which is not a contact move and can be spammed indefinitely, King's Shield be damned.
Relatively sure SubSeed Celesteela can switch into Shadow Ball and force Aegislash out/create havoc as well.
Or just switch your Gliscor in. He doesn't give a fuck. Earthquake and Poison Heal for days.
Genuinely want Aegislash to stay, with mons like mega Medicham and Mega Diancie getting huge buffs and these stupid as fuck mons like Tapu Lele, Pheramosa, M-Mawile, and all those other mons "unviable because of Aegislash" even though it means you just have to not spam your STABs, it's going to suck.
I wish we could just ban Kings Shield since this is the first time we can actually blanket ban a move because of how much insane utility it provides for the only mon that can and actually uses it. I would still have a decent check to all these mons and with the amount of checks that would open up (AV conk AV tang Zard X are ones I can think off on top of my head) and the intricacies that the next turn you're in attack form and stuck brings. I hope he stays at least for a bit longer, as I have 0 interest in playing ORAS but with our methods of handling checks getting nerfed. I hated the hell about how much team match ups decided the game because you only had shaky checks to a bunch of really strong mons, 90% of the time in the form of Lando-T and Clef.
I wish we could just ban Kings Shield since this is the first time we can actually blanket ban a move because of how much insane utility it provides for the only mon that can and actually uses it. I would still have a decent check to all these mons and with the amount of checks that would open up (AV conk AV tang Zard X are ones I can think off on top of my head) and the intricacies that the next turn you're in attack form and stuck brings. I hope he stays at least for a bit longer, as I have 0 interest in playing ORAS but with our methods of handling checks getting nerfed. I hated the hell about how much team match ups decided the game because you only had shaky checks to a bunch of really strong mons, 90% of the time in the form of Lando-T and Clef.
meta is garbage r/n dunno what more needs to be said
just run z-dog, smog sword, smog bug, and whatever else 3 things you want to try to check those 3 lol. echoing what everyone else has said so far: zygarde-complete wraps the meta around itself and then some, aegislash is no less dumb than it was before, and phermosa invalidates hyper offense just by existing on top of being too powerful overall.
once those three are gone the meta should start settling at least somewhat.
edit: seriously zygarde-complete needs a 48 hour quickban (or quicker). otherwise it'll probably get ubers groudon levels of usage.
just run z-dog, smog sword, smog bug, and whatever else 3 things you want to try to check those 3 lol. echoing what everyone else has said so far: zygarde-complete wraps the meta around itself and then some, aegislash is no less dumb than it was before, and phermosa invalidates hyper offense just by existing on top of being too powerful overall.
once those three are gone the meta should start settling at least somewhat.
edit: seriously zygarde-complete needs a 48 hour quickban (or quicker). otherwise it'll probably get ubers groudon levels of usage.
Yes, Zygarde is sooo broken right now. However, there are many other broken things as well (Lando-I, Gene, Aegis, etc.). I guess we have to wait for a week (or 2) for the quick-ban happens, sending them monster back to Ubers.
P/S: Aegis is not walled by Toxapex at all, just 1 SpD drop from Shadow Ball and Aegis can 2HKO it, while Toxapex's Scald does nothing in return. Aegis is as good as it was, whatever argument to ban it last time should be still valid now as I can't think of any gen-7 mons that actually counter this thing.
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Maro would have to run some speed to outrun aegi, but careful and full investment in tanks stats has it survive a shadow ball...assault vest is like a 2 percent chance to 2hko.
Yeah, but no proper Marowak is going to be running Assault Vest. Thick Club, max attack Adamant, split EVs between HP and Speed. Assault Vest seems like such a waste to me. Why are we trying to tank SE hits when we can just outspeed and OHKO?
Too lazy to run calcs right now but I'm pretty sure Toxapex Scald does more than "nothing" to Aegi even if it's not the 2HKO you were looking for. Importantly, burn nullifies Aegi's Leftovers recovery meaning that whatever damage is done sticks to it.
Too lazy to run calcs right now but I'm pretty sure Toxapex Scald does more than "nothing" to Aegi even if it's not the 2HKO you were looking for. Importantly, burn nullifies Aegi's Leftovers recovery meaning that whatever damage is done sticks to it.
Someone wanna explain to me why this man was able to outspeed my Landorus-I (which is fully EV'd, I checked) with his Aegislash and kill with his Z-move? Pretty sure this is a bug where he got priority by clicking z-Shadow Sneak but I'm like 100% sure that isn't how that works.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-480387502
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-480387502
Who's staying in on alolan marowak with aegislash lmao.
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