Metagame Metagame Discussion Thread

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Karxrida

Corruption of Shadows
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
i would like to give some underrated mons some spotlight:
View attachment 74018
Golem-Alola @ Firium Z
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 77 Atk / 252 SpA / 179 Spe
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
this set is nice, it's able to trap and KO ferrothorn, scizor, non EP heatran, skarmory, aegislash, and mega mawile, also beating alolan marowak.(the speed ev's allow you to outspeed bulky mega scizor). being able to set-up rokcs it's nice too, i know that magnzone will be the main steel trapper this gen too, but this thing have a lot of niches to distingue itself.

View attachment 74020
zapdos rose from "everybody hates this"to "everybody love this" in the end of oras, now in SN this thing can check even more threats like pheromosa, aegislash, magearna, tapu fini, CB tapu bulu, lando-i/t, pelipper, mantine, araquanid, golisopod, toxapex, genescect, casteela, buzzwole, decueye, whishmashi, pyumunku, and CB zygarde 10%. it can still check some old and viable mons like scizor, mandibuzz, pinsir, bisharp, skarm and ferro ofc. static is super good against all the u-turners in the meta, and it's not a set-up fodder to zygarde due to hp ice.

View attachment 74022 + View attachment 74025
I've been using this core, and it's really nice Z-parting shot fur coat A-persian + AV golisopd can check a lot of shit togheter, and i belive that this is the best way of using golisopod since it become extremely bulky, i pair this with both tapu bulu and tapu fini, getting defog and recovery support, also tapu lele can't beak this combo because on of the tapus can remove psychc surge.

View attachment 74026
don't have to much to say about this at the moment, but when the meta settles down a dark type mon that doesn't care about focus miss coverage and learn pursuit is going to be huge, also it have the best cripple move ever in poison touch knock off.
Aegislash is immune to trapping and Mega Mawile is currently unavailable (or at least should be) since there's no known way to get its Mega Stone. Unless you really hate Heatran, Magnezone is probably better.
 
Aegislash is immune to trapping and Mega Mawile is currently unavailable (or at least should be) since there's no known way to get its Mega Stone. Unless you really hate Heatran, Magnezone is probably better.
oh i forgot i mess up about aegislash, it can check it, but can't trap, well at last he can set up rocks, but yeah magnzone is going to be better in most cases
 
A bit off-topic, but with the recent rise of Marowak-Alola, two Pokemon have been given the chance to screw teams hard. These are, fan favorite, rotom-W and Raikou. For example, I recently ran an incredibly successful defensive core of Celesteela, Toxapex, Marowak-Alola. Right after building the core I won 7 straight games, and then I met Raikou and got 5-0ed. Literally obliterated me because I had no way to check it. If you are using Maro as your electric counter, be ready when rotom-w comes back, because he will be ready for you.
 

Vague

Banned deucer.
Speaking of Marowak...

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Atk / 120 SpD / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Shadow Bone
- Will-O-Wisp
- Stealth Rock

Call me crazy, but I use Rock Head Marowak. Lightningrod is awesome for another immunity, but as you play with Marowak you'll notice how weak Fire Punch really is when you need it. I can't tell you how many times its low BP has disappointed me. It can't 2HKO Mega Sab, Clef, Chansey, in other words you won't be stall breaking any time soon. If you ask me, it's insane power is one of the main reasons Marowak's good as it is in tandem with its typing and limiting yourself to Lightningrod in exchange for failing to function as a threat to bulkier teams just isn't worth it. Yeah, Tapu Koko is stupid and it already has limited switch-ins, but Marowak shouldn't even be your only answer to it since it lacks recovery while also being SR weak on top of being slow and only modestly bulky. It anything it's just a backup answer

So in short, Rock Head is actually a good ability if you're not super weak Electric-types and Flare Blitz is a flippin nuke. You will not be disappointed with Blitz
 
I'm going to make a case for things that could check Blaziken, Lucario-Mega and Darkrai if they are brought to OU.

Blaziken @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Protect/Swords Dance
- High Jump Kick
- Stone Edge/Knock Off
Mudsdale @ Leftovers
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Atk / 88 Def / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Close Combat/Substitute/Protect
- Rock Slide
- Heavy Slam/Roar

This set up allows for Mudsdale to take what blaziken has to dish out and us turns that it could set up or protect against it.

Necrozma @ Leftovers
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock/Protect
- Psychic
- Thunder Wave/Trick Room
- Moonlight

Mimikyu @ Leftovers/Life Orb/Normalium Z
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance/Z-Splash
- Play Rough
- Shadow Sneak
- Taunt/Protect/Substitute

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Atk / 236 Def / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance/Toxic
- Earthquake/Bonemerang
- Flare Blitz
- Shadow Bone

This one is not as good if Blaziken has Knock Off

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Water Shuriken
- Extrasensory
- Shadow Sneak
- Protect


Lucario-Mega @ Lucarionite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Bullet Punch
- Stone Edge/Blaze Kick/Crunch
Tsareena (F) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Atk / 240 Def
Impish Nature
- Splash
- High Jump Kick
- Trop Kick
- Reflect

Turtonator @ Assault Vest
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Shell Trap
- Fire Spin

Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Pheromosa @ Focus Sash
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe or EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Ice Beam
- U-turn

Kommo-o @ Life Orb/Leftovers/Assault Vest/Choice Band
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Atk / 88 Def / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance/Bulk Up/Dragon Dance
- Brick Break
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw


Darkrai @ Life Orb
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dark Void
- Dark Pulse
- Nasty Plot
- Thunder/Sludge Bomb
Tapu Koko @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Volt Switch

Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind
- Surf
- Haze

Pheromosa @ Focus Sash
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe or EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Ice Beam
- U-turn

Kommo-o @ Life Orb/Leftovers/Assault Vest/Choice Band/Choice Scarf
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Atk / 88 Def / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance/Bulk Up/Dragon Dance
- Brick Break
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
 
i would like to give some underrated mons some spotlight:
View attachment 74018
Golem-Alola @ Firium Z
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 77 Atk / 252 SpA / 179 Spe
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
this set is nice, it's able to trap and KO ferrothorn, scizor, non EP heatran, skarmory, aegislash, and mega mawile, also beating alolan marowak.(the speed ev's allow you to outspeed bulky mega scizor). being able to set-up rokcs it's nice too, i know that magnzone will be the main steel trapper this gen too, but this thing have a lot of niches to distingue itself.
EVs only work as multiples of four. You do 76 Att and 180 speed or 72 attack and 184 Speed do maxamize.

Alrighty then. I STILL haven't gotten too heavily into stall so I'm just going to talk about weather.

Currently, I'm running a rain team and a hail team. The rain team is REALLY good, the hail team is pretty decent. Importables:
Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Roost
- Hurricane
- U-turn

Latias @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Healing Wish
- Defog
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock

Ludicolo @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Focus Blast
- Energy Ball
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam

Kabutops @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Swords Dance

Decidueye @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Roost
- Spirit Shackle
- U-turn
- Leaf Blade

Tapu Koko @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Dazzling Gleam
- Volt Switch
- Grass Knot


Ninetales-Alola @ Icy Rock
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Psyshock
- Freeze-Dry
- Dark Pulse

Absol-Mega @ Absolite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Ice Beam
- Play Rough
- Knock Off
- Superpower

Sandslash-Alola @ Life Orb
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Icicle Crash
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance

Heatran @ Grassium Z
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 164 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 88 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Solar Beam
- Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock
- Flash Cannon

Tapu Bulu @ Leftovers
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Horn Leech
- Zen Headbutt
- Superpower
- Bulk Up

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute
- Toxic
- King's Shield


I'm not sure what exactly absol is doing but my dream of having Manectric-M on that team was shattered so I went to something that could fuck with Aegi a little while still being a kinda sorta utility wincon.

In general, rain is SUPER strong and will be strong this generation basically all year, bar some drastic banning (looking at you tapu koko). Even then, bulky rain got huge buffs this generation in the form of pelipper. I think it was IAmGingy and Seventy who told me to use Ludicolo over Kingdra and so far it's been the correct choice. Specifically, Z Crystal focus blast gives you a great denting of Ferrothorn and allows to do away with that nuisance. Decidueye AGAIN is huge, just being this amazing spdef wall to electric types and being able to come into other grass types. Also the fact that he counters opposing keldeo so easily is one of the reason that I think rain has the potential to be amazing this gen.

Other notes: I tried Golispod and wasn't a fan. Emergency exit is just so detrimental that you never feel like you can SD. Also the lack of speed is garbage. Team would be SO much better if I had Swampert-M. Like probably just disgusting to the point of no return. Tapu Koko just feels broken. Even running terrain extender over LO (I'm undecided on what actually is a good item there), he just dishes damage at a 130 speed that not many are able to keep up with. Like and opposing electrics that come in to take it still lose 30-40-50% hp depending on who they are. Even hippo can get chunked pretty hard by this set and certainly isn't scary for any other part of the team.

Onto hail. I've tried both Beartic and Sandslash-A. I prefer Sandslash but just barely. It's mostly EQ is really nice to have in this meta right now and both are kinda weak so take some tank stats instead. The MAJOR issue is Slash needs to run jolly to outspeed CS Genesect. Beartic runs adamant because he's fucked anyways. Aqua jet on Beartic is really nice to compensate but I haven't really found a set I like. Sandslash is underrated defensively (at least from the point of taking a hit) and that's really helpful in dueling out something like Mega Metagross.

Ninetails-A though is straight fucking garbage. Like I literally cannot stand this mon in the current meta. Unless it gets some fire breeding move that I haven't heard of, it went from being this great steel killer to a garbage steel magnet. That's kinda the third reason Slash over Beartic. You NEED EQ. Like seriously, when you attract more steels than Hillary Clinton attracts scandals, you NEED something to deal with it.

Heatran Bloom doom is cool to help with that issue. Tapu Bele can do like 0 wrong. Overall I don't think we'll see hail much in OU, land of steel, but it's not a bad style if weather isn't banned in UU again.

I'll get to stall later, I'm two teams in but patiently crying for my ZardX and Maltaria. Stall wants electric resists like I want a real friend.
 
EVs only work as multiples of four. You do 76 Att and 180 speed or 72 attack and 184 Speed do maxamize.

Alrighty then. I STILL haven't gotten too heavily into stall so I'm just going to talk about weather.

Currently, I'm running a rain team and a hail team. The rain team is REALLY good, the hail team is pretty decent. Importables:
Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Roost
- Hurricane
- U-turn

Latias @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Healing Wish
- Defog
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock

Ludicolo @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Focus Blast
- Energy Ball
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam

Kabutops @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Swords Dance

Decidueye @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Roost
- Spirit Shackle
- U-turn
- Leaf Blade

Tapu Koko @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Dazzling Gleam
- Volt Switch
- Grass Knot


Ninetales-Alola @ Icy Rock
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Psyshock
- Freeze-Dry
- Dark Pulse

Absol-Mega @ Absolite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Ice Beam
- Play Rough
- Knock Off
- Superpower

Sandslash-Alola @ Life Orb
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Icicle Crash
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance

Heatran @ Grassium Z
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 164 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 88 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Solar Beam
- Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock
- Flash Cannon

Tapu Bulu @ Leftovers
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Horn Leech
- Zen Headbutt
- Superpower
- Bulk Up

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute
- Toxic
- King's Shield


I'm not sure what exactly absol is doing but my dream of having Manectric-M on that team was shattered so I went to something that could fuck with Aegi a little while still being a kinda sorta utility wincon.

In general, rain is SUPER strong and will be strong this generation basically all year, bar some drastic banning (looking at you tapu koko). Even then, bulky rain got huge buffs this generation in the form of pelipper. I think it was IAmGingy and Seventy who told me to use Ludicolo over Kingdra and so far it's been the correct choice. Specifically, Z Crystal focus blast gives you a great denting of Ferrothorn and allows to do away with that nuisance. Decidueye AGAIN is huge, just being this amazing spdef wall to electric types and being able to come into other grass types. Also the fact that he counters opposing keldeo so easily is one of the reason that I think rain has the potential to be amazing this gen.

Other notes: I tried Golispod and wasn't a fan. Emergency exit is just so detrimental that you never feel like you can SD. Also the lack of speed is garbage. Team would be SO much better if I had Swampert-M. Like probably just disgusting to the point of no return. Tapu Koko just feels broken. Even running terrain extender over LO (I'm undecided on what actually is a good item there), he just dishes damage at a 130 speed that not many are able to keep up with. Like and opposing electrics that come in to take it still lose 30-40-50% hp depending on who they are. Even hippo can get chunked pretty hard by this set and certainly isn't scary for any other part of the team.

Onto hail. I've tried both Beartic and Sandslash-A. I prefer Sandslash but just barely. It's mostly EQ is really nice to have in this meta right now and both are kinda weak so take some tank stats instead. The MAJOR issue is Slash needs to run jolly to outspeed CS Genesect. Beartic runs adamant because he's fucked anyways. Aqua jet on Beartic is really nice to compensate but I haven't really found a set I like. Sandslash is underrated defensively (at least from the point of taking a hit) and that's really helpful in dueling out something like Mega Metagross.

Ninetails-A though is straight fucking garbage. Like I literally cannot stand this mon in the current meta. Unless it gets some fire breeding move that I haven't heard of, it went from being this great steel killer to a garbage steel magnet. That's kinda the third reason Slash over Beartic. You NEED EQ. Like seriously, when you attract more steels than Hillary Clinton attracts scandals, you NEED something to deal with it.

Heatran Bloom doom is cool to help with that issue. Tapu Bele can do like 0 wrong. Overall I don't think we'll see hail much in OU, land of steel, but it's not a bad style if weather isn't banned in UU again.

I'll get to stall later, I'm two teams in but patiently crying for my ZardX and Maltaria. Stall wants electric resists like I want a real friend.
Just a quick note, why not just run Soul Dew on Latias? You carry no coverage that is hit by the nerf.
 
I'm going to make a case for things that could check Blaziken, Lucario-Mega and Darkrai if they are brought to OU.

Blaziken @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Protect/Swords Dance
- High Jump Kick
- Stone Edge/Knock Off
Mudsdale @ Leftovers
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Atk / 88 Def / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Close Combat/Substitute/Protect
- Rock Slide
- Heavy Slam/Roar

This set up allows for Mudsdale to take what blaziken has to dish out and us turns that it could set up or protect against it.

Necrozma @ Leftovers
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock/Protect
- Psychic
- Thunder Wave/Trick Room
- Moonlight

Mimikyu @ Leftovers/Life Orb/Normalium Z
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance/Z-Splash
- Play Rough
- Shadow Sneak
- Taunt/Protect/Substitute

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Atk / 236 Def / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance/Toxic
- Earthquake/Bonemerang
- Flare Blitz
- Shadow Bone

This one is not as good if Blaziken has Knock Off

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Water Shuriken
- Extrasensory
- Shadow Sneak
- Protect


Lucario-Mega @ Lucarionite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Bullet Punch
- Stone Edge/Blaze Kick/Crunch
Tsareena (F) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Atk / 240 Def
Impish Nature
- Splash
- High Jump Kick
- Trop Kick
- Reflect

Turtonator @ Assault Vest
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Shell Trap
- Fire Spin

Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Pheromosa @ Focus Sash
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe or EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Ice Beam
- U-turn

Kommo-o @ Life Orb/Leftovers/Assault Vest/Choice Band
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Atk / 88 Def / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance/Bulk Up/Dragon Dance
- Brick Break
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw


Darkrai @ Life Orb
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dark Void
- Dark Pulse
- Nasty Plot
- Thunder/Sludge Bomb
Tapu Koko @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Volt Switch

Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind
- Surf
- Haze

Pheromosa @ Focus Sash
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe or EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Ice Beam
- U-turn

Kommo-o @ Life Orb/Leftovers/Assault Vest/Choice Band/Choice Scarf
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Atk / 88 Def / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance/Bulk Up/Dragon Dance
- Brick Break
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
I think the last thing we should be doing right now is making arguments for dropping Ubers into OU. The tier's enough of a convoluted mess, and we should wait for things to stabilize fully before we even entertain the notion of dropping Ubers into OU (especially when almost all the ubers unbanned this generation are already being suspected for being kicked back upstairs.) Plus, many of these "checks" and "counters" are very gimmicky and sub-par options to use, and it's only gotten harder to try and stop Megacario with its mega speed buff.

Also, that Darkrai set should be all out attack without Dark Void, since no one is going to be using a 50% accuracy move. And Blaziken can always just Baton Pass out of there and take its speed buffs to something even scarier with +1 or even +2 speed, like Xurkitree or banded Garchomp.
 
Darkrai is the only one that "might" drop due to fairy spam, electric terrain, and the dark void nerf.

All I know for bans is dugtrio,s arena trap, it's just way to much with the +20 attack boost and all the wincon sweepers
 

Finchinator

You’re so golden
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I'm going to make a case for things that could check Blaziken, Lucario-Mega and Darkrai if they are brought to OU.

Blaziken @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Protect/Swords Dance
- High Jump Kick
- Stone Edge/Knock Off
Mudsdale @ Leftovers
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Atk / 88 Def / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Close Combat/Substitute/Protect
- Rock Slide
- Heavy Slam/Roar

This set up allows for Mudsdale to take what blaziken has to dish out and us turns that it could set up or protect against it.

Necrozma @ Leftovers
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock/Protect
- Psychic
- Thunder Wave/Trick Room
- Moonlight

Mimikyu @ Leftovers/Life Orb/Normalium Z
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance/Z-Splash
- Play Rough
- Shadow Sneak
- Taunt/Protect/Substitute

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Atk / 236 Def / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance/Toxic
- Earthquake/Bonemerang
- Flare Blitz
- Shadow Bone

This one is not as good if Blaziken has Knock Off

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Water Shuriken
- Extrasensory
- Shadow Sneak
- Protect


Lucario-Mega @ Lucarionite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Bullet Punch
- Stone Edge/Blaze Kick/Crunch
Tsareena (F) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Atk / 240 Def
Impish Nature
- Splash
- High Jump Kick
- Trop Kick
- Reflect

Turtonator @ Assault Vest
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Shell Trap
- Fire Spin

Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Pheromosa @ Focus Sash
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe or EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Ice Beam
- U-turn

Kommo-o @ Life Orb/Leftovers/Assault Vest/Choice Band
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Atk / 88 Def / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance/Bulk Up/Dragon Dance
- Brick Break
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw


Darkrai @ Life Orb
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dark Void
- Dark Pulse
- Nasty Plot
- Thunder/Sludge Bomb
Tapu Koko @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Volt Switch

Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind
- Surf
- Haze

Pheromosa @ Focus Sash
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe or EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Ice Beam
- U-turn

Kommo-o @ Life Orb/Leftovers/Assault Vest/Choice Band/Choice Scarf
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Atk / 88 Def / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance/Bulk Up/Dragon Dance
- Brick Break
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
With all due respect, most of your proposed checks and counters are sets that are specifically tailored to check these Pokemon - there is no reason to otherwise run Protect Greninja, Chesto Tapu Koko, CM Haze Tapu Fini, and I guess there's a little reason to maybe try Sash Pheromosa, but slapping a sash on something doesn't make it a counter or check suddenly, that's flawed logic to a significant extent, imo. I don't know if any of these Pokemon would be healthy and competitive in the OU tier or if they would be broken, but unrealistic and stretched justification certainly isn't an optimal approach in trying to convince others that they're worth a retest at any point in time.

With this said, the council is not currently entertaining the prospect of retesting Pokemon from Ubers due to the current state of the metagame - we need to deal with what is in the tier and reaching a certain degree of balance prior to trying to add anything to the tier and I think it's universally agreed upon that we have some work to do to reach that point, so let's not go overboard on retest discussion and speculation at this point in time.

Edit: the second paragraph also applies to your post, Barioth
 
can we get more talk over the competitive viability of silvally and type: null? silvally has good stats and with its ability and decent movepool it can fill a variety of uses, its unpredictability I think is something that shouldn't be underestimated. once some of these crazy threats rotate out I can see this being really good in ou, prob not good enough for ou but at least uu.

and type: null! I think were forgetting its 95 across the board barring its speed and it can get eviolite. I'm soft resetting for a shiny one now, and planning to use it competitively if it has a decent nature. again, I see this being a pretty good pokemon in uu if not ou. seems like one of the best non fully evolved pokemon in the game right now!

I have been trying out a type null with eviolite, Pursuit, Return, thunderwave/toxic, and heal block/substitute and had a lot of scuess with it. its suprsingly bulky. it can easily toxic stall a lot of tanks with heal block and hit them hard with pursit, or if your exspecting a swap in to a sweeper you can either thunderwave them or set up a free sub. its not a lot but enough!
 
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bludz

a waffle is like a pancake with a syrup trap
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I've seen a few people running CB Zygarde Dog and it looks pretty fun. Haven't gotten a chance to try it out myself but Thousand Arrows hits basically everything and CB ESpeed is cool. Base 115 speed is no slouch either.

Also I've noticed some Rotom-W running SpDef now. There's not exactly a lot of LO Excadrill or Talonflame running around (though there is some Pinsir), and SpD helps it annoy mons like Landorus and Aegislash and tank other hits, surprising people who are used to Defensive Rotom

Also Ferro x Toxapex x_x
 
Venoshock
Haze
Toxic spikes
Bashful bash

Is what I've been running, getting a burn on a steel/poison often won't help it wall much better outside of mega meta gross, but You need to switch out before that and I really love not having to invest in offenses and hammering any fairy I see
 

Vague

Banned deucer.
Tapu Bulu @ Leftovers / Terrain Extender
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Substitute
- Horn Leech
- Brick Break

SubBu Tapu Bulu is really fun to use. It's bulk it's really solid all-around and due to Grassy Surge + Horn Leech it just doesn't die. This allows it to easily setup Subs and just click Bulk Up then watch bulky squads drop after their Aegislash, Marowak, etc have been eliminated or weakened. It's also a p-good Koko switch-in especially with how everyone is freaking out about it. Terrain Extender is actually a solid choice over Lefties since Grassy Surge + Horn Leech gives it a superb amount of recovery at the end of every turn and it helps support the team more. Really cool set that absolutely ravages teams once given the chance.
 
can we get more talk over the competitive viability of silvally and type: null? silvally has good stats and with its ability and decent movepool it can fill a variety of uses, its unpredictability I think is something that shouldn't be underestimated. once some of these crazy threats rotate out I can see this being really good in ou, prob not good enough for ou but at least uu.

and type: null! I think were forgetting its 95 across the board barring its speed and it can get eviolite. I'm soft resetting for a shiny one now, and planning to use it competitively if it has a decent nature. again, I see this being a pretty good pokemon in uu if not ou. seems like one of the best non fully evolved pokemon in the game right now!

I have been trying out a type null with eviolite, Pursuit, Return, thunderwave/toxic, and heal block/substitute and had a lot of scuess with it. its suprsingly bulky. it can easily toxic stall a lot of tanks with heal block and hit them hard with pursit, or if your exspecting a swap in to a sweeper you can either thunderwave them or set up a free sub. its not a lot but enough!
The main problem with Type: Null is that it doesn't have any recovery outside of Rest. Outside of Pursuit and maybe a Swords Dance set, Porygon2 outclasses it in basically every aspect. While P2 has slightly worse defenses (85/90/95 vs 95/95/95), it has the advantages of better abilities in Trace or Download, higher SpA than Type: Null's Attack, and, most importantly, recovery.
 
can we get more talk over the competitive viability of silvally and type: null? silvally has good stats and with its ability and decent movepool it can fill a variety of uses, its unpredictability I think is something that shouldn't be underestimated. once some of these crazy threats rotate out I can see this being really good in ou, prob not good enough for ou but at least uu.

and type: null! I think were forgetting its 95 across the board barring its speed and it can get eviolite.
Yeah, I don't really see either really having a huge splash in OU. Both lack any recovery and don't really have much offensive presence- The Memory Disk items it needs to change types don't give it STAB bonuses like the plates do for Arceus. That being said, they're both going to be excellent in one of the lower tiers. Parting Shot is an interesting niche, but not enough to warrant the slot on a team.
 
Hi! Casual player here, you may have seen me at the 1300s elo range while climbing the ladder with your alts.

Everyone is pissing me off by using annoying shit that will probably be banned in Phermosa and Aegislash. So I decided I'd piss them off by using different annoying shit that might be banned: Evasion boosting Z-Moves. This is a complete gimmick but I'm having fun.

Method one: Sand Veil Gliscor + Baton Pass --> Parafusion

Step 1. Set up Sand
Step 2. Send out Gliscor and hope through Sand Veil, Z-Sand Attack (Evasion Boost for user, Accuracy loss for target), and Substitute, nothing bad happens.

Gliscor @ Groundium Z
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Sand Attack
- Swords Dance
- Baton Pass

Step 3: Baton Pass to someone who can continue the annoyingness.

Regigigas @ Lum Berry / Something else idk
Ability: Slow Start
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Confuse Ray
- Thunder Wave
- Drain Punch
- Fire Punch

I chose Regigigas because he actually has a reason to stall like this


Method 2: Snow Cloak

(Not as effective but faster, Frosslass can usually get 2 kills and Ninetales can be used again to set up AV )
Ninetales-Alola @ Light Clay
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aurora Veil
- Encore
- Disable
- Blizzard

Froslass @ Normalium Z
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flash
- Thunder Wave
- Destiny Bond
- Hex
 
Z-Drum Azumarill is just crazy, it's probably the best cleaner in the metagame. Thanks to its typing and aqua jet it can check a bunch of stuff while knock off lets it debilitate any switch-in, so it's not like it has no use before you set up the sweep. And then when it's time to sweep, press Z-Drum and take away the risks of not getting it off due to low hp and being easy to revenge with priority because if you survive to use it, you'll be at 50% hp guaranteed. Unless you KO it before it uses Z-drum, you're in trouble.

Keep this thing alive and waiting to clean as long as possible with solid synergy around it, and it is just a monster.
 
Outrage will not cause confusion if it ends early because it hit an immunity. I'm assuming you switched in a fairy to tank the Outrage, so Zygarde was no longer locked and could freely use Thousand Arrows.
I did switch in a Tapu KoKo so it hit an immunity. I didn't know that outrage wouldn't cause confusion for hitting an immunity since I thought it would stay locked into that move regardless of whether it hit an immunity after the initial hit. Guess that changed in ORAS then?

In any case power construct zygarde is a menace that needs to be delt with, its too freaking bulky and can tank hits from special and physcial sets all day long like its nothing, its almost as bad as agislash, but atleast its possible to effectivly deal with agislash (which also needs to go along with Pharmosa (I'm not a big fan of any of the ultra beasts to be honest)).
 
In any case power construct zygarde is a menace that needs to be delt with, its too freaking bulky and can tank hits from special and physcial sets all day long like its nothing, its almost as bad as agislash, but atleast its possible to effectivly deal with agislash (which also needs to go along with Pharmosa (I'm not a big fan of any of the ultra beasts to be honest)).
Worry not, the first problem has been solved already.
 

Vague

Banned deucer.
Just another observation, but the Tapu's are all super great Pokemon and they can comfortably fit on teams with one another. A recent build I made with 3 Tapu's: Defog + Taunt Fini / SubBu Bulu / Scarf Lele works wonderfully and the Tapu's actually work incredibly well together. Resetting Terrains are also a huge plus for a many Pokemon that pair with the deities (all three terrains are awesome support) and they don't really stack many weaknesses bar things like Mega Scizor, but adequate support (such as Celesteela or Marowak, hell HP Fire Lele checks Mega Scizor) make up for their inherent weaknesses exceedingly easily. Not to mention it seems the only prominent Poison-types are Toxapex

Zygarde 50% is pretty good too btw, mono-attacking sets are really good and it checks some pretty scary stuff like Aegislash. Not disappointing imo, Thousand Arrows was a godsend for it.
 
Just another observation, but the Tapu's are all super great Pokemon and they can comfortably fit on teams with one another. A recent build I made with 3 Tapu's: Defog + Taunt Fini / SubBu Bulu / Scarf Lele works wonderfully and the Tapu's actually work incredibly well together. Resetting Terrains are also a huge plus for a many Pokemon that pair with the deities (all three terrains are awesome support) and they don't really stack many weaknesses bar things like Mega Scizor, but adequate support (such as Celesteela or Marowak, hell HP Fire Lele checks Mega Scizor) make up for their inherent weaknesses exceedingly easily. Not to mention it seems the only prominent Poison-types are Toxapex
I have seen a few teams running 2 of the tapus and they worked out pretty well, and I've only seen one team running all 4 of them along with Phermosa and one other UB but it wasn't very well built. BTW Accel Rock on Lycanrock (midday form) with the Z-Power Contenintal Crusher is a OHKO oh Phermosa, don't know if it maintains priority or not but it went first and was an instant kill.
 
Still experimenting, but I think Goodra may have a decent niche in the current metagame, more-so than XY, at least. Here's what I have so far:


Goodra @ Choice Specs
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 96 HP / 196 SpA / 216 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Bomb
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt

Mainly this came out of a desperate search for a safe Tapu Bulu switch-in, so I looked at Sap Sipper mons, though far too many are bad/weak to Superpower/both. Goodra became a lowkey anti-meta mon in ORAS to deal with Serperior and later Volcanion, so I thought I'd give it a shot! EVs of the above set outspeed Adamant max speed Bulu (you can go Timid if Jolly Bulu gains traction) while avoiding the OHKO from any move on the Band set.

252+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Superpower vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Goodra: 289-340 (83.7 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
196+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Bulu: 572-676 (166.2 - 196.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So yeah, not exactly safe (with Stealth Rock), but workable. Non-Band sets are obviously a little easier to work with. I could try more bulk but then it starts becoming too weak/slow to do work against non-Bulu targets. While 110 SpA isn't the greatest, Modest with 196 EVs and Specs still hurts, especially with Goodra's great coverage and high-powered moves. Your mostly-uninvested bulk handles a lot of solid mons in the meta right now:
  • Tapu Koko: HP EVs take 2 LO Dazzling Gleams/many Electric attacks, even under Terrain. Sludge Bomb OHKOs standard no-bulk set.
  • Toxapex: Takes laughable damage from Scald, could care less about Burn, easy 2HKO with Thunderbolt.
  • Aegislash: Shadow Ball 3HKOs at best, Fire Blast forces it out/2HKOs.
  • Porygon-Z: Takes +1 Ice Beam pretty handily (unless you Conversion into Ice for some reason), Draco OHKOs at +1 SpDef ~50% of the time after Rocks, putting Pory the range of most priority.
  • Xurkitree: Handles Scarf sets and Timid Tail Glow stats at +3 if lacking Life Orb. Draco Meteor always KOs. Other sets beat you unless you they lack HP Ice.
  • Mega Charizard Y: Currently unpopular but Goodra has always shut it down and continues to do so.
  • Mega Venusaur: Forces Sludge Bomb>Grass moves on the switch, Fire Blast/Draco force repeated Synthesis use, wearing Venu down.
And probably a few more. As you can see, Goodra doesn't really hard-check or counter anything, but it matches up well against many top threats in the metagame right now. I think it deserves a bit more experimentation despite its lackluster showing last gen. If people have more optimal sets (except AV, I hate AV) then I'd love to hear them! If nothing else, having a Sap Sipper mon in the back will make Tapu Bulu players hesitate clicking Wood Hammer, tempting as it is...
 
So, I've been running an offensive CBtar+Zard-Y squad quite a lot recently, and my fun little addition is Modest Z-Hypnosis Gengar. Basically a Spore which gives +1 Speed, and its worked wonders as a lategame cleaner.
 
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