Metagame Metagame Discussion Thread

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To be honest I'm far more interested on how future lower tiers will look like with all those additions as this generation present us far more lower tier Pokemon then powerhouses. All those alola forms, interesting starters, alot of low BST additions some of them really interesting like WishiWashi, Araquanid, Salazzle, Golisopod or Dhelmise as few interesting examples. So I just need to wait few months just to test out new toys in lower tiers as there is good amount of them ;).

I was never OU crazy, so I may as well wait few months ;).
 
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I'd imagine SpDef Toxapex gives Aegislash nightmares. Sub variants get PP stalled, non-Sub variants take a decent amount from Toxapex's slower Scald after attacking and get worn down over time. Can't Toxic Toxapex, and hit & run Shadow Ball gets countered by Regenerator. But that's exactly the sort of thing we need to wait and see about.
 
"it checks a few pokemon added this generation, ban"
???
i really dont understand your reasoning here. Are we just auomatically banning phermosa or kartana checks now because we can? The kings shield buff is incredibly minor, and you have no reason to be attacking aegi with moves its immune to anyways...
Aegislash is a godly pivot. Now it got even better because it checks MORE Pokemon that are good in the metagame. It's not random Pokemon we are banning; it's something we have Suspect Tested twice. We know what it can do and we're not thinking it should be banned just because we love to spam Phermosa and Kartana for easy wins. Right now, it is on 90% of the teams (which might be a necessary evil) to hold back those ridiculous threats but once Phermosa goes, I expect this to be gone as well as it itself is a ridiculous threat and warps the meta around itself like crazy.

As for the KS buff, it is situational but that doesn't hurt it either. What it does is contact attackers can no longer try to dodge King's Shield by attacking it with a move it is immune to - this situation basically guarantees a -2 physical contact attacker - a lose-lose situation for the opponent.
 
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November Blue

A universe where hot chips don't exist :(
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Bewear is solid.

It honestly surprised me. This pink thing is amazing. Handles Aegislash nicely, can check Pheromosa, has really good bulk and isn't weak offensively. Seems like a pretty good physical tank so far.

Wishiwashi is also much better than I thought it'd be.
 
Araquanid is incredibly good. I can do extreme damage with banded Liquidation (even with Lunge!) and can 2KO a LOT of mons that don't resist it. It's above average bulk allows it to survive a few hits
 


I am soooooooo excited to use this thing for some reason. I usually hate defensive pokemon, I am not a defensive player. I don't mind bulky offense, but pure defensive teams and defensive Pokemon (Balanced teams) have never been my forte, but for some reason this thing looks like so much fun.

It's got an interesting typing, a very unique and fun looking movepool, three great abilities, reliable recovery, good stats. It will be the reason Greninja sticks around for a while.

For some reason I had thought that Pyukumuku had higher defense stats than it does, and I was saying it reminded me of a different-typed Ferrothorn, but this thing definitely does more so. It loses Iron Barbs, but gains Regenerator and Recover. It definitely has a lot of potential in this metagame once some of the insane threats start to disperse.
 
Tapu Lele paired with all super fast mon's that would otherwise be vulnerable to priority seems very powerful. Pheromosa is the most obvious, as it's effectively invincible under Psychic Terrain, but pretty much anything grounded over base 120 speed or frail Choice Scarf users appreciate this.

This combination comes even more powerful once Terrain Extender is implemented (which doesn't seem to be the case yet).
 
Things I learned:

1) Aegislash is still broken.
2) Toxapex's bulk is even better than I already expected it to be and it's super annoying.
3) Bewear is super cool actually.
4) Alolan Marowak got no love so far because I can't get showdown to account for thick clib to save my life. It recognized the boost, but was definitely not calcing the damage right. Bewear live my flare blitz, I don't think that's a thing.
5) Pheromosa won't last long imo.
 
Things I learned:

1) Aegislash is still broken.
2) Toxapex's bulk is even better than I already expected it to be and it's super annoying.
3) Bewear is super cool actually.
4) Alolan Marowak got no love so far because I can't get showdown to account for thick clib to save my life. It recognized the boost, but was definitely not calcing the damage right. Bewear live my flare blitz, I don't think that's a thing.
5) Pheromosa won't last long imo.
Bewear can live a Mega Rayquaza's Dragon Ascent. I think living a Marowak-A Flare blitz is well within reason
 

bludz

a waffle is like a pancake with a syrup trap
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Few things after laddering for a little bit now:

Zard Y looks like it might be fairly strong in this meta. Lots of new fairies and lots of steels. Topapex, Latios, and Mantine will still annoy it but it loses a check in SpD Talon. I've been using Zard on the ladder a bit and it really threatens a ton of mons like Magearna and Alolan Ninetales.

Tapu Koko is a monster. Did you know that LO just straight up OHKOS Kartana? I mean Kartana has crap SpD but still. Koko is a legitimate late game cleaner. I've been running a set of Thunderbolt / Grass Knot / Dazzling Gleam / Uturn. Uturn is really nice so you can scout stuff and so that you don't get trapped by Focus Sash Dugtrio.

Kartana appreciates TFlame not being that good any more since Fire/Flying is really the best typing to wall it with (best move combo that I've seen so far is Leaf Blade / Smart Strike / Fighting Coverage)

Phermosa is straight up broken lol and Lop + Aegi is still a retarded core.

PS Jirachi is good still
 
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IIRC it gets a fire weakness from Fluffy but then Flare Blitz is a contact move that gets its damage cut in half anyway soooooo...

252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-A Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Bewear: 373-441 (97.9 - 115.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

That's accounting for both of Fluffy's effects. Maybe the Fire weakness part of it hasn't been coded into the sim properly?
 
I'm seeing a surprising amount of Kommo-o do work, and I even saw one bulky Leftovers Incineroar set that I liked.

Substitute Bulk Up Bewear using Toxapex as an excuse to set up.

Then again, I also saw a dude get 6-0'd by fully defensive Hippowdon, shit like Energy Ball M-Venu, and people repeatedly using contact moves into Aegislash. The level of play and team building is not very...optimal at this point in time.
 
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I forgot in anything goes scoli passing actual boosts is a thing. Can't wait till the gen 7 OU ladder is running.

All the Tapus will probably get play but the water one. Its too much competition for it imo. Magearna is going to be a problem. ridiculous bulk, and I believe it hard counters clefable bar flamethrower. Max Def/HP with a moveset of flash cannon, dazzling gleam, twave, calm mind seems great once you get rid of steels.
 

ManOfMany

Formerly Many
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I forgot in anything goes scoli passing actual boosts is a thing. Can't wait till the gen 7 OU ladder is running.

All the Tapus will probably get play but the water one. Its too much competition for it imo. Magearna is going to be a problem. ridiculous bulk, and I believe it hard counters clefable bar flamethrower. Max Def/HP with a moveset of flash cannon, dazzling gleam, twave, calm mind seems great once you get rid of steels.
I actually love Tapu Fini so far and think it will be quite good. Water+Fairy is a good offensive typing, and I've been experimenting around with CM sets, which are definitely decent sweepers. SubCM in particular can set up all over Toxapex, which is funny. Also anything that learns hazard removal will by default get used and this thing learns Defog.

Finally, Misty Terrain is actually a really great condition. Immunity to status for your teammates is gamechanging.
 
I actually love Tapu Fini so far and think it will be quite good. Water+Fairy is a good offensive typing, and I've been experimenting around with CM sets, which are definitely decent sweepers. SubCM in particular can set up all over Toxapex, which is funny. Also anything that learns hazard removal will by default get used and this thing learns Defog.

Finally, Misty Terrain is actually a really great condition. Immunity to status for your teammates is gamechanging.
It just feels a bit underpowered compared to the other tapus. But its only day one. Koko is obviously sick but I think Bulu will be the sleeper. Pair it with Heatran and you have a core that covers each other literally perfectly. I'm trying to figure out the best sets for it and am trying out leech seed atm. Ph.Def scizor seems like a nice compliment to the two as well. I'm really eager to really dig into the meta once they get rid of the silliness of aegi/phero/geno. I feel they are probably going to stifle creative team building until they are gone.
 

SketchUp

Don't let your memes be dreams
I actually think MVenusaur is pretty good atm because many people don't prepare for it well and many offensive pokemon really struggle breaking it. Pheromosa, Tapu Koko, Tapu Bulu, Mega Mawile, Aegislash, Mega Diancie, Magearna, Rain, Kartana, Greninja all dislike Mega Venusaur. Most teams I've faced only had really shaky checks, so that's definitely something to keep in mind while teambuilding.
 
I've actually been wondering if it's viable to run a double-poison Toxapex/M-Venu team with something like Hydreigon as your Psychic check.

That stupid Psychic/Fairy is a nightmare though.
 

bludz

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A core I've been playing around with is Tapu Lele + Excadrill. Lele prevents priority from cutting short a sweep, although I haven't seen much Craw/Azu/Loom, the meta is just in the beginning stages. It still helps with Mega Lop and whatnot too that use Fake Out to stall Sand turns.

Specs Tapu Lele is really strong. The only thing that's walled it so far for me is Celesteela, and Shadow Ball can crush Jirachi/Metagross.

Excadrill also seems like it might still be quite good in this metagame. Revenge kills basically all the new speedy mons and Steel STAB seems more useful than before
 
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