Metagame Metagame Discussion Thread

[pj]

Nihilego @ Focus Sash
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Stealth Rock
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Sludge Wave /toxic spikes
- mirrow coat/power gem

i really liked nihilego as a sr setter and its ablity to OHKO lando-t and lando can even use toxic spikes but i like to suprise all the scarf tapu lele who i see often o0 wit sludge wave.and i really like mirrow coat it ables to suprise aegi and magearna etc and get them dead really like to lead with it in sumo o0

 

[Seth_]

SubToxic Aegislash is so broken omg....

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-482361392

This mon don't only 1v1 every mon in game. It 1v1 entire teams. Every move is 50:50 and unless your enemy predict correct every move you win. I think that this is best set right now.

Beside that meta seems to be qute centralized. Gyarados, greninja, aegislash, buzzwhole, tapu lele, tapu koko are everywhere.

 

[The Shadow Knight]

So, I've been running an offensive CBtar+Zard-Y squad quite a lot recently, and my fun little addition is Modest Z-Hypnosis Gengar. Basically a Spore which gives +1 Speed, and its worked wonders as a lategame cleaner.

Z status moves are supposed to have the same accuracy as their normal counterparts.

 

[Kawaii Kyouko]

Z status moves are supposed to have the same accuracy as their normal counterparts.

I eventually realized that. i must have had some godly luck the other days.

Still, people usually switch out from Gengar, so you still get the speed boost.

 

[Lil YoshiXD]

Everyone complaining about aegislash, what do I say about that?

SPD Gliscor is making its come back.

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 8 Def / 200 SpD / 56 Spe
Careful Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Roost

56 speed evs outspeed adamant breloom and bisharp and other base 70s, but if not concerned with those less speed can be run. 244 hp is a poison heal number.

The set completely laughs at sub toxic aegis
While even tanking modest shadow balls:
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 240 HP / 200+ SpD Gliscor: 145-172 (41.3 - 49%)

Life orb sets admittedly hurt, but seem quite rare.

Also it beats all non hp ice landorous
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 240 HP / 200+ SpD Gliscor: 152-179 (43.3 - 50.9%)

It is able to tank u-turns from genesect and pheromosa, but watch out vs icebeam.

It is also great vs toxapex as its scald does next to nothing:
0 SpA Toxapex Scald vs. 240 HP / 200+ SpD Gliscor: 96-114 (27.3 - 32.4%)

Taunt can replace a move to better stallbreak, but SD set is better at beating mega sableye stall.
Good partners for it are things that can tank the ice and water attacks aimed at it.

Honestly try this out its pretty good in this meta.

 

[Coonce2193]

I'm loving Nidoking rn. It's great against all the tapus, especially Koko. It also can check the grass/poison types with ice punch/fire punch (or flamethrower/ice beam) and stab poison jab is good against fairies. Add in earthquake against fire types and steel types, and it wrecks. Here's my set:

Nidoking @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Poison Jab
- Earthquake
- Thunder Punch
- Ice Punch

 

[M BLADE]

You're doing it wrong man, use special Nidoking, it's much better and stronger.

- Earth Power
- Sludge Wave
- Flamethrower
- Ice Beam

This is the set for Nidoking. Much stronger, and Earth Power ignores Life Orb recoil, unlike EQ.


On another topic, i was surprised on how Necrozma is bulky. I could set up CM and recover with Morning Sun against nothing more than Aegislash spamming Shadow Ball of all things, and it was in a 1x1 situation! Thanks Prism Armor for that. Too bad it's not that fast and hates status (mainly Toxic which is EVERYWHERE).

 

[Salem1]

Why would you use that instead of Landorus?

 

[preserve]

SubToxic Aegislash is so broken omg....

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-482361392

This mon don't only 1v1 every mon in game. It 1v1 entire teams. Every move is 50:50 and unless your enemy predict correct every move you win. I think that this is best set right now.

Beside that meta seems to be qute centralized. Gyarados, greninja, aegislash, buzzwhole, tapu lele, tapu koko are everywhere.

Hoopa -u is really great against aeigslash since it doesn't care about king shield has hyperspace fury breaks through it.

 

[Ajwf]

Salem1 It hits fairies way harder. TBH Nidoking IS a good choice if and only if you run tbolt so you can hit both mantine and toxapex really well.

 

[Gerard]

Salem1 It hits fairies way harder. TBH Nidoking IS a good choice if and only if you run tbolt so you can hit both mantine and toxapex really well.

Toxapex dies to Earth Power anyway but thunderbolt is good for Pelipper.

 

[steviestar]

Nidoking is way better at dealing with specially defensive Skarmory / Celesteela too. Admittedly Landorus has the option of Calm Mind + Focus Blast to break Skarmory though.

 

[Alakalando]

Nidoqueen @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 180 HP / 252 SpA / 76 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Ice Beam
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
With the new beasts, an influxx of fairy dominance is clearly apparent. Tapu Koko in particular is a dominating force among fairies. To combat these trends, I have tried Nidoqueen and am pleasantly suprised. It serves as a Tapu check with a lot of key resistances as well as decent power in conjuction with Life Orb Sheer Force. The set is self explanatory yada yada give it a try n_n

man,i was just going to write a similar post about nidoking,which i prefer due to it being able to outspeed more pokemon,although queen may work just as fine.also does a ton of damage to aegislash,toxapex,a-marowak,can also run thunderbolt to roast the frequent pelippers-mantines.i considered a set with fire punch as an added bonus to hit those ferros,scizors,kartanas etc.,which think they can tank a hit.meta or not,i think they're really gona be fun to play with this gen.

 

[Ajwf]

Toxapex dies to Earth Power anyway but thunderbolt is good for Pelipper.

Yeah I meant by entirety of moveset, Nidoking is better vs stall right now. Was my mistake for not clarifying.

 

[Vague]

I dont really see the point in running Nidoking over Landorus. It's stronger, has coverage to hit Mantine, faster, just better in all aspects of a Sheer Force attacker.

Nidoqueen is a different story though since its much bulkier than its male counterpart and is able to stand a chance against things like Koko and Phero. So if you need Queen for defensive capability go for it, but Nidoking really has no place rn with all the competition it's facing.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Punches are definitely outclassed by special verus of them like flamethrower and etc.

Poison hits super hard in this meta and is honestly an amazing typing to abuse right now

 

[TURBODERP]

I dont really see the point in running Nidoking over Landorus. It's stronger, has coverage to hit Mantine, faster, just better in all aspects of a Sheer Force attacker.

Nidoqueen is a different story though since its much bulkier than its male counterpart and is able to stand a chance against things like Koko and Phero. So if you need Queen for defensive capability go for it, but Nidoking really has no place rn with all the competition it's facing.

I think it's pretty unarguable that Nidoking has a niche when Landorus is running around. Like you said, Nidoqueen though is quite viable. It actually hits harder than Nidoking (and you can run Modest too since you don't need the speed as much), and is a perfectly viable Stealth Rock/Toxic Spikes setter too (the latter of which Landorus-I can't do). The additional bulk is also really nice in stopping things like Tapu Koko, who can't 2HKO you with HP Ice (assuming you're running HP investment which you should).

 

[KingKdot]

One mon that is really great right now is SubCM Keldeo. A lot of teams are running Toxapex as their water resist and Sub CM keldeo sets up all over it.

 

[TURBODERP]

One mon that is really great right now is SubCM Keldeo. A lot of teams are running Toxapex as their water resist and Sub CM keldeo sets up all over it.

Toxapex should run Haze for this reason, but you can't really do much back (Scald does almost nothing).

 

[Jukain]

I want to point out a Pokemon I think is overlooked in the current metagame: (Mega) Gyarados. With the parallels between XY and SM in certain builds/cores that are currently effective, I decided to try out Mega Gyarados and take a look at where it stands in the current metagame. Simply put, many of the teams in the metagame just are not prepared for it. The flexibility between normal Gyarados and Mega Gyarados really stands out; with normal Gyarados, you can't be revenged by Genesect or Pheromosa and can take advantage of certain stuff for free setups, whereas Mega Gyarados can set up on Greninja and Aegislash. Gyarados also gets a DD against Landorus-I. I haven't seen any Landorus-Ts with Superpower or Genesects with Thunderbolt to combat it. Keldeo has disappeared off the face of the earth so any possibility of that checking is mostly gone. Certain Pokemon are problematic for it, notably requiring to damage Tapu Bulu (about 35%) beforehand and Venu. In general I feel that the top threats Mega Gyarados can check and sweeping capabilities it has while people are relatively unprepared for it make it a pretty effective Pokemon.

Although I think the flexibility of Mega Gyara makes it superior generally, I also wanted to share a pretty cool lure with Z-move normal Gyarados:

Gyarados @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Bounce
- Earthquake

This set pretty much lures the Grasses and Waters used to check Gyarados. Z-Bounce is really strong, to say the least. Below are some calcs (this is Jolly because it misses crucial speed benchmarks at +1 without Jolly). Rather than list/explain targets, I'll just include some calcs to give an idea of what I mean.

calcs

252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 452-534 (131.3 - 155.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Venusaur: 426-504 (117 - 138.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 255-301 (72.4 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy (HP Elec versions used for Mantine could check): 381-448 (111.7 - 131.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mantine: 343-405 (91.7 - 108.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 470-554 (116.3 - 137.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyurem-B: 379-447 (96.9 - 114.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

 

[DiscoDucky]

I want to point out a Pokemon I think is overlooked in the current metagame: (Mega) Gyarados. With the parallels between XY and SM in certain builds/cores that are currently effective, I decided to try out Mega Gyarados and take a look at where it stands in the current metagame. Simply put, many of the teams in the metagame just are not prepared for it. The flexibility between normal Gyarados and Mega Gyarados really stands out; with normal Gyarados, you can't be revenged by Genesect or Pheromosa and can take advantage of certain stuff for free setups, whereas Mega Gyarados can set up on Greninja and Aegislash. Gyarados also gets a DD against Landorus-I. I haven't seen any Landorus-Ts with Superpower or Genesects with Thunderbolt to combat it. Keldeo has disappeared off the face of the earth so any possibility of that checking is mostly gone. Certain Pokemon are problematic for it, notably requiring to damage Tapu Bulu (about 35%) beforehand and Venu. In general I feel that the top threats Mega Gyarados can check and sweeping capabilities it has while people are relatively unprepared for it make it a pretty effective Pokemon.

Although I think the flexibility of Mega Gyara makes it superior generally, I also wanted to share a pretty cool lure with Z-move normal Gyarados:

Gyarados @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Bounce
- Earthquake

This set pretty much lures the Grasses and Waters used to check Gyarados. Z-Bounce is really strong, to say the least. Below are some calcs (this is Jolly because it misses crucial speed benchmarks at +1 without Jolly). Rather than list/explain targets, I'll just include some calcs to give an idea of what I mean.

calcs

252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 452-534 (131.3 - 155.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Venusaur: 426-504 (117 - 138.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 255-301 (72.4 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy (HP Elec versions used for Mantine could check): 381-448 (111.7 - 131.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mantine: 343-405 (91.7 - 108.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 470-554 (116.3 - 137.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyurem-B: 379-447 (96.9 - 114.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

Also, it's important to note that Gyarados gets Fly from the 3DS' RBY games.

 

[Goodstyle]

I think it's pretty unarguable that Nidoking has a niche when Landorus is running around. Like you said, Nidoqueen though is quite viable. It actually hits harder than Nidoking (and you can run Modest too since you don't need the speed as much), and is a perfectly viable Stealth Rock/Toxic Spikes setter too (the latter of which Landorus-I can't do). The additional bulk is also really nice in stopping things like Tapu Koko, who can't 2HKO you with HP Ice (assuming you're running HP investment which you should).

Wait, how does Nidoqueen hit harder? It has worse attacking stats than King.

 

[Niadev]

Wait, how does Nidoqueen hit harder? It has worse attacking stats than King.

Modest Nidoqueen just edges out Timid Nidoking on raw special attack stats (273 v 269 respectively), which is the nature that Nidoqueen is running.

 

[TURBODERP]

Wait, how does Nidoqueen hit harder? It has worse attacking stats than King.

Nidoking usually has to run Timid, while Nidoqueen can afford to run Modest.

 

[Vague]

Genesect @ Life Orb
Shiny: Yes
Abiliy: Download
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Shift Gear
- Blaze Kick
- Iron Head
- X-scissor
+
Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Spikes
- Rock Slide
- Ice Beam
- Extrasensory

Shift Gear Genesect paired with Spikes is utterly terrifying to face. Essentially, if you setup on the right Pokemon you're at +2 Atk / +2 Spe in tandem with amazing overall coverage. Blaze Kick is for Celesteela and Aegislash so you can go wild without having to think about it. X-scissor isn't exactly necessary but it's good coverage so it's a pretty interchangeable slot. Thunderbolt still takes a huge chunk out of Mantine and Pelipper, Ice Beam smacks TankChomp and defensive Lando, even Explosion if you want to break past some of its incredibly sturdy switch-ins like Toxapex. The Greninja set was specifically made to beat a few of Gene's most common checks in Mantine / Pelliper with Rock Slide and Toxapex with Extrasensory. Ice Beam is too good of coverage to pass up imo but Hydro Pump works too. Very lethal core overall. It's also worth noting that Shift Gear Magearna works in Genesect's spot moderately well while also having a snowballing effect in place of the instant boost Download offers.