Metagame Metagame Discussion Thread

[Boomfan56]

Good ol' dragmag is still amazing

Dragonite @ Life Orb
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed

Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Magnezone getting rid of those pesky steels (which have trouble running shed shell due to all the hard hitters), and Dragonite killing everything is still brutally effective, especially since nobody uses Clefable for some reason. I managed to get to the top 50 without too much difficulty with my HO team, but it could definitely be improved still as in not getting 6-0'd by Tapu Bulu.

 

[Salem1]

nobody uses Clefable for some reason.

It's too weak. Those base stats just don't hold up when there's so many mons who attack with Poison, Steel and/or have double or more of Clefable's defensive stat in their own offensive stat. When you've got things like Specs Tapu Koko with Drizzle support spamming Thunder at you, Greninja going through your team with super effective STAB, Xurkitree with scarf or Z-Hypnosis and Tail Glow OHKOing anything that isn't immune to Electric, Azumarill waiting in the back to sweep your team, Landorus and so on, you just can't afford to run something like Clefable. You need to use something that's also broken.

 

[steviestar]

It's too weak. Those base stats just don't hold up when there's so many mons who attack with Poison, Steel and/or have double or more of Clefable's defensive stat in their own offensive stat. When you've got things like Specs Tapu Koko with Drizzle support spamming Thunder at you, Greninja going through your team with super effective STAB, Xurkitree with scarf or Z-Hypnosis and Tail Glow OHKOing anything that isn't immune to Electric, Azumarill waiting in the back to sweep your team, Landorus and so on, you just can't afford to run something like Clefable. You need to use something that's also broken.

You're being pretty over dramatic.

The thing that's really hurt Clefable the most this gen (at least IMO) is the Paralysis nerf. Clefable can barely outspeed anything offensive without significant speed investment now, which makes a ton of match-ups significantly worse for it. There's also a lot more competition for a sturdy Fairy type team member right now because of mons like Tapu Bulu or Tapu Fini. I don't think Clefable has lost enough to completely fall out of favor in OU, but it's definitely no longer among the best Pokemon in the tier.

 

[Yahooboo]

I think this has a big impact on the metagame. And I think all 5 berries now has become a superior choice for Belly Drum users rather than using Z-Drum, because you can basically set up to +6 and got your HP back to full. Suddenly stuff like Belly Drum + Aqua Jet Azumarill just got better because of this. The only inferior thing Z-Drum has over berries are Z stones can't be Knocked Off. Otherwise, I think this is better.

Edit: derp. It recovers when your HP is below 25%. Still a good choice I think.

Snorlax and Linoone can use Gluttony to make them work at 50% instead. Probably not viable but still a thing.

 

[JBC]

A Pokémon that I am really excited for, not sure if many other people have brought up, is Nihilego. Suicide lead set could be good, as it gets both Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock. Really excited to use this thing, and as much as it creeps me out, I love its design.

 

[BeardyBennett]

I've been messing around with Scarf Staraptor and Tapu Koko for a VoltTurn core and have been having a lot of success

Staraptor @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Brave Bird
- Close Combat
- Return

Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Grass Knot
- Dazzling Gleam

Intimidate Staraptor to help force things out or weaken potential set-up mons, and I'm not a fan of Reckless also increasing the amount of recoil damage I might take. I think this is a fairly solid VoltTurn group with Staraptor being a great win-con as well with either BB or CC. It's also a group I think you can pair a lot with. For instance I have it teamed up with a Nidoqueen, Celesteela, A-Marowak, and Golisopod. In fact, between Koko, Raptor, and Golisopod you have a lot of revenge killing options, soft switch-in capabilties, and win-con potential. But there's potential for a lot of different things with these two that would work well.

Obviously my team lacks in the department of hazard removal and would struggle against some fairly common stuff, but I'm having fun and doing fairly well with it. The focus of this post though is on Scarfraptor and Topu Koko as a powerful VoltTurn core with legit win-con and revenge killing potential in a possible post-Phermosa, post-Xurkitree meta. Granted that assumes Xurkitree would get banned (who knows?) and Tapu Koko would stay OU (I think it's fine enough). Who knows maybe this isn't anything worth going with, but I felt like sharing it.

 

[Goodstyle]

So Sharpedo's got the potential to surprise a lot of people thanks to a new toy. Came across this replay where this dumb shark just goes ham on a player:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-484549174

 

[BeardyBennett]

So Sharpedo's got the potential to surprise a lot of people thanks to a new toy. Came across this replay where this dumb shark just goes ham on a player:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-484549174

I was thinking Sharpedo could be a lot of fun in this meta. Major four moveslot syndrome unfortunately, but I like the set you ran with.

 

[M BLADE]

I do like using Staraptor too, but i'm using with Magnezone. There's many steels to trap, and Staraptor is a steel magnet (well... Magnezone is but that's beside the point). A quick U-Turn and bam, something gets trapped.

I use with Reckess. Doesn't soften up switches, but Scarf Raptor shoud not be switching in that much unless on predicted ground or ghost moves, and Reckless allows you to 2HKO Tapu Koko switching in on Brave Bird, along with having a pretty high chance of a OHKO on Tapu Lele and forcing Toxapex to Recover/Baneful Bunker, among some other stuff. It keeps so much speedy things under control it's crazy.

Also feeling that many people are just forgetting to bring a spinner/defogger, and Sticky Web is actually decent this time around. Especially when you consider monsters like Tail Glow Xurkitree or Bulk Up Buzzwole that can easily steamroll through a team if you can't outspeed them.

 

[Duck Chris]

OK so some stuff I saw in the live tours this weekend.

- Quiver Dance
- Me first
- whatever
- whatever

this thing is not that good but will catch you off guard if you're not ready. Quiver dance on the aegislash switch then me first the shadow ball for the KO. Actually hilarious but it won't kill without the boost and it loses to sub.

not sure on EV spread but it would be nice to know
- Flame Charge
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake
- Heavy Slam

this thing is crazy. Heavy slam hits pretty hard and no one is expecting it to set up. Important fact about the EVs was that it was EV'd to get the beast boost in attack. Pretty cool and definitely something to watch out for.

Otherwise, Mix had a pretty sick run with the Mimikyu team that was posted in the OU bazaar thread, Mimikyu and banded Hoopa-U is a pretty sick combo. I saw a lot of non-scarf genesect which is always neat, Banded and Expert belt were the 2 most common. Aegislash was everywhere as expected.

 

[Nightfiiire]

What is a good/decent stealth rocks setter pre-pokebank?

 

[mew-2Chainz]

What is a good/decent stealth rocks setter pre-pokebank?

Midday Lycanroc. really fast taunt and stealth rocks setter with good offensive stats.

 

[s_aman]

Genesect @ Life Orb
Ability: Download
EVs: 104 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD / 144 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rock Polish
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower
- Giga Drain / Thunder Bolt

I have been in love with this set since BW2. While it does not have the utility of scarf U-Turn or CB Extremespeed, it makes up for that with its cleaning potential. First three moves are mandatory and self explanatory imho. In the last slot, I use Giga Drain instead of Tbolt as it still hits most water types hard and the healing proves handy a lot of times. The EV spread outspeeds Modest Kingdra in rain and gives a LO number. Dugtrio is obviously a great partner for this set though I don't use one. I use it with a lure gyarados(which i am posting below) and spikes Greninja with HP-electric and it has taken me to pretty high on the ladder.

Gyarados @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Bounce
- Taunt

This set was posted by Jukain here, with Earthquake in the last spot, and it has been the mvp of almost all of my games. It is a very good partner for the above Genesect set and lures a lot of its checks and counters and can easily KO/weaken them, such as, Mantine and Toxapex and is obviously a good check to heatran. Taunt allows it to shut down Celesteela and skarm and prevents haze from Toxapex as well as Defog from Tapu-Fini. It is also a very good move against stall teams as preventing one Recover or softboiled can be gamechanging.

 

[Siggu]

Genesect @ Life Orb
Ability: Download
EVs: 104 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD / 144 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rock Polish
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower
- Giga Drain / Thunder Bolt

I have been in love with this set since BW2. While it does not have the utility of scarf U-Turn or CB Extremespeed, it makes up for that with its cleaning potential. First three moves are mandatory and self explanatory imho. In the last slot, I use Giga Drain instead of Tbolt as it still hits most water types hard and the healing proves handy a lot of times. The EV spread outspeeds Modest Kingdra in rain and gives a LO number. Dugtrio is obviously a great partner for this set though I don't use one. I use it with a lure gyarados(which i am posting below) and spikes Greninja with HP-electric and it has taken me to pretty high on the ladder.

If anything, this set is better than in BW2, since most Download-influencing spreads are towards giving Genesect a Special Attack boost, compared to then, where special Genesect was the most common set.

That, I've always thought, is Genesect's best trait - no matter what, there is always one that will turn the Download boost you are forcing into something you shouldn't have forced.

 

[Flarowak]

So Sharpedo's got the potential to surprise a lot of people thanks to a new toy. Came across this replay where this dumb shark just goes ham on a player:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-484549174

That looked moreblike Hoopa going berserk than sharpedo lol. I like the Sharpedo buffs, I just don't know how they'll serve him in this meta.

 

[Goodstyle]

That looked moreblike Hoopa going berserk than sharpedo lol. I like the Sharpedo buffs, I just don't know how they'll serve him in this meta.

Hoopa is soooo ridiculous and no one's talking about it haha.

 

[BeardyBennett]

I do like using Staraptor too, but i'm using with Magnezone. There's many steels to trap, and Staraptor is a steel magnet (well... Magnezone is but that's beside the point). A quick U-Turn and bam, something gets trapped.

I use with Reckess. Doesn't soften up switches, but Scarf Raptor shoud not be switching in that much unless on predicted ground or ghost moves, and Reckless allows you to 2HKO Tapu Koko switching in on Brave Bird, along with having a pretty high chance of a OHKO on Tapu Lele and forcing Toxapex to Recover/Baneful Bunker, among some other stuff. It keeps so much speedy things under control it's crazy.

Also feeling that many people are just forgetting to bring a spinner/defogger, and Sticky Web is actually decent this time around. Especially when you consider monsters like Tail Glow Xurkitree or Bulk Up Buzzwole that can easily steamroll through a team if you can't outspeed them.

That is a really good combo. I can definitely understand going Reckless for that extra damage output. It's really up to the preference of the battler. I like to try and trim down any set-up/Beast Boosts with Intimidate, and it also makes whatever I bring in off U-Turn a little bit safer assuming the target is a physical attacker. Sure Lando-T does the job better, but I like Raptor for it personally because BB-CC is a beautiful thing

Hoopa is soooo ridiculous and no one's talking about it haha.

Hoopa has always been ridiculous, I think we're just accepting it right now lol. To be fair, I'm sure it'll get mentioned or suspected after some of the UB's and Aegis get figured out.

 

[rau]

Garchomp @ Firium Z
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang

Was just messing around building Sticky Web Hyper Offense when I needed a last mon that could outspeed unboosted Zard-X (have plenty a way to force it out) so I put this in. Going into more detail, I wanted to try SD Chomp, something I haven't used fsr after getting so accustomed to seeing fatchomp. So typical fare: SD, STABs, and last move, huh. Was thinking first of Poison Jab because Tapu Bulu but then I realized there are shit like Skarmory and Celesteela that exist to wall Garchomp, so I decided to run Fire Fang. Then I realized Fire Fang was a piss move. THEN I realized Z move existed and can make piss moves into good coverage options so it all went in from there. Yeah, so that's the story of how this set came to be. Purpose is to lure in usual chomp checks like Celesteela, Skarmory, and Tangrowth, thinking they can force you out if you use SD. Little do they know they're in for a fucking PAIN TRAIN when the get smacked with that sweet, sweet +2 Inferno Overdrive. Oh, and, you lure in fat Scizor too, I guess, which is a plus if that's their hazard remover. And Bulu. And Ferrothorn and any other subpar grass type I'm forgetting like Dhelmise and Shiinotic Overall, really sweet option I think people should try out.

+2 252 Atk Garchomp Inferno Overdrive (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 296-350 (88.6 - 104.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Inferno Overdrive (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 322-380 (79.7 - 94%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Inferno Overdrive (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celesteela: 510-602 (128.1 - 151.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Garchomp Inferno Overdrive (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 16+ Def Scizor: 472-556 (137.6 - 162%) -- guaranteed OHKO (idk why this is here tbh)
252 Atk Garchomp Inferno Overdrive (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 316-372 (89.7 - 105.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

If you're too lazy to read dramatization, tl;dr: Z-Fire Fang allows Garchomp, to lure in bulky Steel-types not weak to Ground moves and Grass-types that usually check it, comfortably OHKOing most of them after a SD boost.

 

[Callmeyeshua]

It seems almost impossible to craft a team capable of dealing with all the threats at the moment. Meta is pure matchup right now. Its actually pretty frustrating.

 

[DiscoDucky]

Garchomp @ Firium Z
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang

Was just messing around building Sticky Web Hyper Offense when I needed a last mon that could outspeed unboosted Zard-X (have plenty a way to force it out) so I put this in. Going into more detail, I wanted to try SD Chomp, something I haven't used fsr after getting so accustomed to seeing fatchomp. So typical fare: SD, STABs, and last move, huh. Was thinking first of Poison Jab because Tapu Bulu but then I realized there are shit like Skarmory and Celesteela that exist to wall Garchomp, so I decided to run Fire Fang. Then I realized Fire Fang was a piss move. THEN I realized Z move existed and can make piss moves into good coverage options so it all went in from there. Yeah, so that's the story of how this set came to be. Purpose is to lure in usual chomp checks like Celesteela, Skarmory, and Tangrowth, thinking they can force you out if you use SD. Little do they know they're in for a fucking PAIN TRAIN when the get smacked with that sweet, sweet +2 Inferno Overdrive. Oh, and, you lure in fat Scizor too, I guess, which is a plus if that's their hazard remover. And Bulu. And Ferrothorn and any other subpar grass type I'm forgetting like Dhelmise and Shiinotic Overall, really sweet option I think people should try out.

+2 252 Atk Garchomp Inferno Overdrive (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 296-350 (88.6 - 104.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Inferno Overdrive (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 322-380 (79.7 - 94%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Inferno Overdrive (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celesteela: 510-602 (128.1 - 151.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Garchomp Inferno Overdrive (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 16+ Def Scizor: 472-556 (137.6 - 162%) -- guaranteed OHKO (idk why this is here tbh)
252 Atk Garchomp Inferno Overdrive (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 316-372 (89.7 - 105.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

If you're too lazy to read dramatization, tl;dr: Z-Fire Fang allows Garchomp, to lure in bulky Steel-types not weak to Ground moves and Grass-types that usually check it, comfortably OHKOing most of them after a SD boost.

Why not Z-Fire Blast? Although it's coming off of a much weaker SpAtk stat, the higher Base power should hurt more, especially when you consider that many of the pkmn you calc'd against all have lower SpAtk stats.

 

[Colonial]

Why not Z-Fire Blast? Although it's coming off of a much weaker SpAtk stat, the higher Base power should hurt more, especially when you consider that many of the pkmn you calc'd against all have lower SpAtk stats.

Needs to be Swords Dance boosted to OHKO Skarmory, Celesteela, and Tangrowth.

 

[DiscoDucky]

With Fire-type Z-crystal, Inferno Overdrive's power is base 185 Special. Here are some calcs.

4 SpA Garchomp Inferno Overdrive vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 158-186 (92.3 - 108.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Garchomp Inferno Overdrive vs. 244 HP / 48 SpD Tangrowth: 186-220 (90.2 - 106.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Garchomp Inferno Overdrive vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 84-100 (41.1 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Garchomp Inferno Overdrive vs. 248 HP / 200 SpD Scizor: 196-232 (111.3 - 131.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO (I modified SpDef stat on Nugget Bridge Calculator to 100 to reflect Mega Scizor)
4 SpA Garchomp Inferno Overdrive vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 180-216 (99.4 - 119.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

Other than the Celesteela match-up, much more reliable in every way.

 

[Vengeance417]

With Fire-type Z-crystal, Inferno Overdrive's power is base 185 Special. Here are some calcs.

4 SpA Garchomp Inferno Overdrive vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 158-186 (92.3 - 108.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Garchomp Inferno Overdrive vs. 244 HP / 48 SpD Tangrowth: 186-220 (90.2 - 106.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Garchomp Inferno Overdrive vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 84-100 (41.1 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Garchomp Inferno Overdrive vs. 248 HP / 200 SpD Scizor: 196-232 (111.3 - 131.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO (I modified SpDef stat on Nugget Bridge Calculator to 100 to reflect Mega Scizor)
4 SpA Garchomp Inferno Overdrive vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 180-216 (99.4 - 119.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

Other than the Celesteela match-up, much more reliable in every way.

The nugget bridge calculator has drop-down boxes for Mega Pokemon/alt formes. No real need to do that extra work for calcing.

Also, Z-Fire Blast is way better than Z-Fire Fang since you don't have to set up an SD just to get the kills on these fat steels.

 

[Salem1]

It seems almost impossible to craft a team capable of dealing with all the threats at the moment. Meta is pure matchup right now. Its actually pretty frustrating.

I stopped laddering for this reason, the current meta is thoughtless and feels pointless to play. You can slap a team together in 5 minutes and it'll work just by picking stuff like Genesect, Landorus, Greninja and so on, and then you each spam your no-brainer moves until one of you wins based on which overpowered mons on each team have the more favorable matchup. It feels like the way me and my buddies played pokemon in middle school, haha. I wish they would just get on with banning the things everyone knows shouldn't be in the tier so we can get the positive mechanics changes like the burn nerf with an enjoyable meta.

 

[yuukafu]

So when is Aegislash finally getting banned? It's really not fun to see it on 70% of the teams and being so hard and annoying to deal with, forcing 50/50s every game unless you are able to pressure your opponent so much that he somehow sacks it. Of course, things like Pheromosa need to be banned as well, but it already has been more than a week, shouldn't the time for quick bans be sufficient?