Metagame Workshop

[Taveena]

i had an idea
Fortemons

Metagame premise:
An attack is put into the item slot, and its effects are granted to all of the attacks in the moveslots!
This includes both primary and secondary effects- so for instance drain punch in the item slot would grant 50% recovery on every single attack. Scald in the item slot would grant 30% burn chance on every single attack. Close Combat in the item slot would drop your def/spd with every attack, and Flare Blitz would cause you to take recoil on every attack.

When it comes to priority, the priority of the item and moveslot moves are added together. So Extremespeed + Return is +2, and Extremespeed + Dragon Tail is -4.

This only works for attacks, not status moves. Status moves dont inherit anything and also cant be put into the item slot (thats another meta!)

Potential bans and threats:
These are moves that are banned as items:
-Power-Up Punch
-Zap Cannon
-Inferno
-Dynamic Punch
-Sky Drop
-"Attacks" that call other moves
-Counter/Mirror Coat/Bide
-Multi-hit moves
-Pursuit

These are moves that are banned as moveslots:
-Seismic Toss / Night Shade
-2-5 Multi-hit moves (fixed 2 and 3 hit moves are fine- Beat Up is banned alongside this)


Banned abilities:
-Serene Grace
___________________

Here's a few example sets:

Togekiss @ Extreme Speed
Ability: Super Luck
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Air Slash
- Dazzling Gleam
- Aura Sphere

Togekiss is an example of something that will be popular- inheriting +priority to several moves. It cant use serene grace anymore (because its banned), but the combination of nasty plot + 3 excellent prio moves at +2 with increased crit chance will make it a successful sweeper.

Excadrill @ Rapid Spin
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
- Rock Slide

Excadrill grants utility in a hyper-offense team without dropping a beat- rapid spin on all of its attacks lets it clear hazards without wasting moveslots, doesnt have to worry about ghosts spinblocking, and can still set up and sweep in sand.

Magearna @ Volt Switch
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fleur Cannon
- Flash Cannon
- Aura Sphere
- Thunderbolt

This Magearna doesnt attempt to sweep, rather puts its great typing and attacks to use to become a pivot. The main selling point of the set is the ability to fire off a powerful fleur cannon and immediately switch out, making the special attack drop a non-problem.

Tsareena (F) @ Feint
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Trop Kick
- U-turn
- High Jump Kick
- Play Rough

Tsareena is a key pokemon in the metagame as it will stop 4x priority sweepers in their tracks. It can also run all priority itself, and ensure it cant be outsped while having access to pivoting, and a high jump kick that cant be blocked by protect.

Ferrothorn @ Payback
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Stealth Rock

Payback and the other damage-doubling abilities are really strong, although they usually come with a setback such as requiring you to take damage, be statused, move last etc. If you can make the sacrifice, then go ahead! This Ferrothorn will move last anyway, so doubling the power of gyro ball and power whip makes it hit really hard.

Questions for the community:

Can you think of any weird interactions that would not have an obvious effect? For instance I was not sure how seismic toss would interact with a doubling-effect like payback, would it deal 200 hp of damage instead? So I threw it into the banlist for now. If you can think of any others, then lemme know!

So this is basically a rad AF metagame, though I think Fake Out @ U-Turn and vice versa probably needs to be banned. There's kind of a REQUIREMENT for every team to have either Tapu Lele, Tsareena, or Bruxish, but those three all hard-wall @ priority Pokemon, so... I don't know if that's a problem.

I've been making sets like crazy - part of what's so great is that EVERY Pokemon benefits from this metagame. In no particular order...

In no particular order...

Malamar @ Superpower
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Night Slash
- Psycho Cut

Fairly self-explanatory, though Malamar now gets STAB on its abilities and isn't quite so walled by ghosts.

Comfey @ Draining Kiss
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Energy Ball
- Dazzling Gleam
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Again, fairly self-explanatory. +3 priority and 75% recovery on all its attacks make it very, very hard to take down.

Hitmontop @ Rock Smash/Rolling Kick
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Triple Kick
- Fake Out
- Bullet Punch
- Mach Punch

Mostly just trying to work out a way to abuse Triple Kick, but Hitmontop's movepool isn't amazing. Still, an 87.5% chance to lower their defense by at least one stage is solid, and you've got a damn high chance of getting more. Rolling Kick makes Hitmontop have a whopping 75% chance to flinch, so if they're paralyzed... Triple Kick isn't a slouch either, when boosted by Technician.

Starmie @ Rapid Spin
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Ice Beam/Psyshock
- Thunderbolt/Psyshock
- Recover

Starmie @ Rapid Spin
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf/Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam/Psyshock
- Thunderbolt/Psyshock
- Recover

Offensive and defensive spinners both gain a ton - for one thing, they can't be spinblocked anymore. Perhaps more importantly, their 4MSS is heavily alleviated.

Slowking @ Dragon Tail
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

It's Crocune but constantly, endlessly phazing. I thought that'd just be fun to play with, dealing with opposing setup.

Clefable @ Charge Beam
Ability: Unaware/Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heal Bell
- Moonlight
- Moonblast
- Flamethrower

Clefable benefits less than you might hope, but Charge Beam means Clefable doesn't need to drop coverage against Steel types for a setup move. I personally like Unaware, what with all the Contrary setup around.

Muk-Alola @ Clear Smog/Shadow Sneak
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Sneak/Clear Smog
- Crunch
- Gunk Shot
- Stone Edge

Clear Smog can't miss, and passes that on to Gunk Shot and Stone Edge, while Shadow Sneak @ Clear Smog makes it the perfect Phazer against anything not immune to priority or ghost moves. You can swap Shadow Sneak and Clear Fog around, but at the cost of accuracy and being entirely unable to touch Pokemon immune to priority.

Nihilego @ Acid Spray
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Power Gem
- Sludge Wave
- Dazzling Gleam
- Thunderbolt

A hell of a wallbreaker, when every move lowers their spdef by two stages it 2HKOs almost everything.

Buzzwole @ Fell Stinger
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Leech Life
- Bulk Up
- Stone Edge
- Hammer Arm

Mostly I just found the idea of +4 attack on a KO hilarious. Is that so wrong.

Jellicent @ Hex
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Hydro Pump
- Shadow Ball

330 power Hydro Pump or 240 power Shadow Ball (with STAB) makes Jellicent much scarier once it gets that burn off.

Serperior @ Leaf Storm/Giga Drain
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain/Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Glare

More self-explanatory, though I personally prefer the stat-up on Dragon Pulse so that you don't lose momentum as much, even though that costs you power on your STAB.

Entei @ Extreme Speed
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Stone Edge
- Iron Head
- Return

Priority with a 50% chance to burn off a STAB fire move is nasty. Fun revenge killer, and even if it can't kill it's got a good chance to force a switch given the burn.

Landorus-Therian @ U-Turn
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- Outrage

i really like volt-turn mayhem.

Rotom-Wash @ Volt Switch
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex

like, REALLY like.

Tornadus-Therian @ U-Turn
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Sludge Wave

i'm just excited Tornadus-T can use his spatk now. he deserves it.

Pelipper @ Hurricane
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Hydro Pump
- Blizzard
- Roost

Hydro Pump now can't miss in rain AND gets a 50% damage buff.

Excadrill @ Rapid Spin
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
- Rock Slide

More offensive spinner. Excadrill is damn happy to have Edgequake for coverage.

Tapu Lele @ Draining Kiss
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Energy Ball

Tapu Lele might be better with a scarf, I don't know. But it's guaranteed to cause switches against anything with Priority equipped, so I felt like it wasn't necessary. 75% heal Psychic Terrain STAB Psychic is so much fun anyway.

Blissey @ Seismic Toss
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aromatherapy
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic
- Dazzling Gleam

Not even sure this is worth the item slot, but hey, now Blissey can deal her 100 damage to anyone, even Ghost/Poison and Ghost/Steel types. If Blissey being walled by stuff was a problem you had...

Mew @ Shock Wave
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Zap Cannon
- Dynamic Punch
- Blizzard
- Earthquake

Basically just No Guard Mew. Same old.

Celesteela @ Giga Drain
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Seed Bomb

And now Celesteela has the recovery it always wanted. Pity it's not more reliable...

Azumarill @ Aqua Jet
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Play Rough
- Waterfall
- Bulldoze

+1 Waterfall > Aqua Jet, I guess. And Play Rough is also priority now.

Forretress @ Rapid Spin
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake
- Spikes

i'm bad at predicting spinblockers, and now i don't have to.

Lapras @ Freeze Dry
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Avalanche
- Drill Run/Heal Bell

Turns out Freeze Dry in the item slot means Lapras has perfect coverage with its STAB. Last slot is, as a result, basically filler.

Araquanid @ Leech Life
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpA
Brave Nature
- Liquidation
- Crunch
- X-Scissor
- Ice Beam

Bulk is a bit more respectable when Liquidation is given Leech Life's heal, though not as large a benefit as many other Pokemon.

Sigilyph @ Stored Power
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Cosmic Power
- Roost
- Air Slash
- Psyshock

Swoobat @ Stored Power
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Air Slash
- Psyshock
- Heat Wave

Basically the same concept - Stored Power with a 60 power head start and more coverage options. Air Slash helps Sigilyph a LOT.

Exploud @ Rollout
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Surf
- Flamethrower
- Focus Blast/Hammer Arm

Rollout doubles in power each turn, and unlike Fury Cutter, does not have a cap. Boomburst reaches a ridiculous 2240 base power before STAB on the fifth turn it's used. Of course, speed is a problem. Not sure what baton passers make sense in this.

Scolipede @ Venoshock
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Baton Pass
- Poison Jab/Megahorn
- Earthquake

Since Ninjask doesn't benefit at all, due to its already barren movepool, this is probably the best baton passer. Venoshock-boosted Megahorn is going to hurt a lot, at least.

Galvantula @ Giga Drain/Volt Switch/Electroweb
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sticky Web
- Thunder/Volt Switch
- Bug Buzz/Volt Switch
- Energy Ball/Giga Drain

And for Sticky Web, we've got this guy, I guess? There's a lot of options. My favorite is probably being able to voltturn out with Bug Buzz instead, but hey, maybe you're into recovery.

Bruxish @ Aqua Jet
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Waterfall
- Psychic Fangs
- Ice Fang

Poor Bruxish. Of the three priority blockers, it's by far struggling the most. What it DOES have going for it is both priority AND setup, so when it comes in and forces a switch it can get off a Swords Dance before setting up its own sweep. It's not much, but it's something.

 

[david0895]

I remember that there was a metagame with all the stuff was released.
Is it aviable or can I re-send it?

 

[Lemon Ginger]

So I came up with an interesting idea. I'm not sure it quite fits in with the typical definition of an 'other' metagame, but here it is in writing, lest I forget.

Last Man Standing (a.k.a. The Curious Case of Other Metas)

OMs have traditionally played with the idea of altering various game mechanics or characteristics of pokemon, moves and items in order to create a metagame that is different from the standard tiers. What hasn't been explored, however, is changing how tiering is done.

Premise: Every month, the top 20* pokemon, as measured by usage, are banned. A generation would begin with all pokemon unbanned, and as time goes by, the meta will shift from high-powered ubers to eventually little cup. The metagame persists across months, so that over a generation ~500 pokemon are cycled through. In contrast to the standard tiers, there would be spectrum spectrum of power levels, rather than 7 distinct banlists and metas.

Edit: To clarify, the banned pokemon remain banned. After a long time, the ban list will be hundreds of pokemon.

*This value needs some thought behind it. 15? 25?

Thoughts

• No need for bans outside of the shifts, since things are rotated out.
• This would obviously need a permanent ladder.
• Maybe bans are based of the usage from 2-months prior, so that people have time to anticipate the new month's meta.
• I really like the concept of having to find new pokemon to fill roles. Fluent definitions of who the 'Top Dogs' are and what major threats exists means that one month maybe the meta is water spam, but after a rotation, spikes stacking is in.
• One thing to consider is that the team building UX will be confusing with such a large banlist, as there will be nothing to indicate what is banned or not. This would be a problem until the team builder can parse banlists based on the tier specifed, PRIOR to the validation checks. The Immortal , idk if you can comment on the feasibility of this happening for OMs.

I know this is quite out-there, but I think it's a cool area to explore, and I would like to see what others think!

 

[Pipotchi]

I love all the Fortemons ideas, seems like a lot of people got into it!
I just wanted to share a couple more sets that I think would be worth considering on any team:

Noivern @ U-turn
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Hurricane
- Flamethrower / Hyper Beam
- Roost / Hyper Beam

Pangoro @ Bullet Punch
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Hammer Arm
- Crunch
- Gunk Shot
- Swords Dance

Bruxish @ Aqua Jet
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Psychic Fangs
- Swords Dance
- Waterfall
- Crunch

noivern is a pivot with a few key reasons to be picked- being able to scout itemized moves with frisk, u-turn, and a 123 base speed in a meta where choice scarf is far less likely to be picked. itemized priority can be spotted before it hits you, and noivern can grant a free switch-in to a prio blocker. draco meteor/hyper beam pairs perfectly with u-turn, shrugging off the negative aspect. a very low-risk pokemon that maintains momentum, its only downside would be that stealth rocks will quickly shorten its lifespan thanks to its nature as a scout.

pangoro plays the priority game well; it is perhaps the most useful priority user in the game thanks to mold breaker which busts through dazzling and QM. also have some high powered moves, and hammer arm's negative effect is somewhat downplayed by it being at +1 prio. its main weakness would be tapu lele along with getting outsped by other priority users.

bruxish is probably the least attractive of the 3 priority blocking mons due to having the lowest BST, but it has good reasons to be picked over the other two. bruxish's selling point as a prio blocker is the ability to sweep with swords dance. it can grab a free turn from a 4x priority mon to SD up and then outspeed any other mon with its own boosted priority attacks.

I will perhaps try and submit it some point soon..

 

[Schpoonman]

In Fortemons, how would Substitute in the item slot affect moves?

 

[Ludicrousity]

In Fortemons, how would Substitute in the item slot affect moves?

It wouldn't work. Status moves are not allowed in the item slot.

 

[drampa's grandpa]

I love all the Fortemons ideas, seems like a lot of people got into it!
I just wanted to share a couple more sets that I think would be worth considering on any team:

Noivern @ U-turn
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Hurricane
- Flamethrower / Hyper Beam
- Roost / Hyper Beam

Pangoro @ Bullet Punch
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Hammer Arm
- Crunch
- Gunk Shot
- Swords Dance

Bruxish @ Aqua Jet
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Psychic Fangs
- Swords Dance
- Waterfall
- Crunch

noivern is a pivot with a few key reasons to be picked- being able to scout itemized moves with frisk, u-turn, and a 123 base speed in a meta where choice scarf is far less likely to be picked. itemized priority can be spotted before it hits you, and noivern can grant a free switch-in to a prio blocker. draco meteor/hyper beam pairs perfectly with u-turn, shrugging off the negative aspect. a very low-risk pokemon that maintains momentum, its only downside would be that stealth rocks will quickly shorten its lifespan thanks to its nature as a scout.

pangoro plays the priority game well; it is perhaps the most useful priority user in the game thanks to mold breaker which busts through dazzling and QM. also have some high powered moves, and hammer arm's negative effect is somewhat downplayed by it being at +1 prio. its main weakness would be tapu lele along with getting outsped by other priority users.

bruxish is probably the least attractive of the 3 priority blocking mons due to having the lowest BST, but it has good reasons to be picked over the other two. bruxish's selling point as a prio blocker is the ability to sweep with swords dance. it can grab a free turn from a 4x priority mon to SD up and then outspeed any other mon with its own boosted priority attacks.

I will perhaps try and submit it some point soon..

I'd at least slash Iron Fist on Pangoro, as Bullet Punch gives every move the punching boost.

 

[Pipotchi]

I'd at least slash Iron Fist on Pangoro, as Bullet Punch gives every move the punching boost.

true, the only reason it was worth listing over another 4x priority user imo is that ability to break through tsar and bruxish though. if using BP, you could choose to run parting shot in the last slot to try and squeeze out of those situations
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Speny I really like the idea of shape up. hopefully this isnt gunna be too long winded but i wanted to write my thoughts on each typing.

I like all of these ones and dont really have any suggestions (rock, poison, ground, dark, flying, fighting). magic bounce is crazy but somewhat covered by the inheritance of mold breaker.

These are the ones I would maybe change:

Hide

I dont love swift swim on this because it doesnt really add much variety to a team: like if you are going to have swift swim on the team, you are going to be using multiple. but this transforms most fish shape pokemon into pure water types with the sole exceptions of eelektross and stunfisk, so theyre all competing for the same slot and pushes most of them into unviable status. I would consider something like Regenerator to be a great alternative that is an ability on the same lvl of some of the others that are granted (and wont lead to 6 regen teams since like i said all of these mons share a water typing), and it would be a suitable ability for marine life

This one feels weird, but i also have no suggestions for what to replace it with. it has a very overloaded movepool granted to it, and basically overwrites the mons entire identity to be a mega launcher spammer. starmie and kingdra are gunna be a pain with their specs origin pulses and high BP coverage.

The only thing I dont like abt this is that its a flat damage increaser with tough claws. Iron fist grants additional prio to its users, so Strong Jaw, Rock Head and this are both just flat damage. I liked Strong Jaw more so I was thinking the other two could change. I think this could be cool to replace with Intimidate, so there are more defensive abilities granted (theres only magic bounce and multiscale at the moment, and shield dust which is a bit disappointing). And intimidate pairs nicely with dragons

I dont like this one for similar reason to tough claws, its a flat dmg increase, and normal typing does nothing for its inheriters. maybe this could be changed to speed boost because of its feet, since theres only 3 relevant users (dodrio, exeggcutor, pory2), and in addition all kicking moves?

arena trap allows for a few mons to trap and murder/set up on defensive pokemon, in particular ferro, jellicent, trevenant, toxapex, buzzwole all sounds like a problem. you have trapping subseeders, fell stingers, shell smashers, hazard stackers, all of which cant be interrupted. idk, might be worth considering, since arena trap is an ability that works bc such a pathetic single pokemon has access to it in standard, it is gunna be very problematic here since its one of the best available abilities in the game.
If you dont like Regen for the other suggestion, you could put it here since multi-limb animals like jellyfish are known for their regenerative properties. Alternatively it could be Technician

parental bond is on another tier to these other abilities. these mons almost all have access to charge beams/power-up punches, fury cutters, and a bunch of 30% moves that are gunna have twice the chance of activating, plus the straight 25% damage boost. i love the ability and it will hopefully be really fun, but might be a bit overkill.

I like the fairy typing, but shield dust is quite disappointing? This could be replaced with dazzling to add a new angle to the metagame, and makes for a fitting fairy ability.

Compoundeyes is a great fitting ability, but none of the mons have the movepool to abuse it :( Tinted Lens would be a great alternative, although in that case i would definitely knock shell smash off the gained abilities.

edit: i realised i missed the part where mons get 3 typings. so ignore the part where i wrote that mons get their secondary typings erased lul. Maybe its because im a nub who never played hidden type but 3 typings always confuses the hell out of me so it could be something to consider too (replace the primary/secondary typing?)

 

[AquaticPanic]

I don't really have a name for this, I was thinking "Type Boosting" but I'd welcome some name suggestions. I've been thinking about this for some months by now on wether try to submit it or not

Metagame premise: Pokémon get +20 in a base stat based on their type.

Types and their boosts

HP: Normal|Grass|Water
Atk: Dragon|Fighting|Ground
Def: Steel|Rock|Poison
Sp. Atk: Fire|Ice|Ghost
Sp. Def: Fairy|Psychic|Dark
Speed: Flying|Bug|Electric

For clarification:
- Mons whose both types boost the same stat get +40 in that stat
- If a type makes a stat go over 255, it will cap at 255
- If an in-battle form change occours and it has a diferent type, such as Meloetta-Pirouette, the new type is what the boost will be based off of*. It happens as soon as the mon changes forms (So a Mega is the first thing to happen in a turn, while Meloetta is only after using Relic Song)
- If an unnatural type change occours, such as by Protean or Soak, the mon will keep it's original boost
Potential bans and threats: Chandelure, Garchomp, Toxapex, Kyurem-Black, some few others I'm still looking at
Questions for the community:

* What do I do about Castform, as it has two forms that boost HP by +20? I know that gaining HP midbattle is possible as of Zygarde-100% but not sure if losing is. Should I just ban it?

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As for the ideas suggested on this thread, I really like the one who uses Body Types and the one who uses Colors. I'd play them if they were approved. The one where you put a move on the item slot sounds cool too.

 

[Speny]

I don't really have a name for this, I was thinking "Type Boosting" but I'd welcome some name suggestions. I've been thinking about this for some months by now on wether try to submit it or not

Metagame premise: Pokémon get +20 in a base stat based on their type.

Types and their boosts

HP: Normal|Grass|Water
Atk: Dragon|Fighting|Ground
Def: Steel|Rock|Poison
Sp. Atk: Fire|Ice|Ghost
Sp. Def: Fairy|Psychic|Dark
Speed: Flying|Bug|Electric

For clarification:
- Mons whose both types boost the same stat get +40 in that stat
- If a type makes a stat go over 255, it will cap at 255
- If an in-battle form change occours and it has a diferent type, such as Meloetta-Pirouette, the new type is what the boost will be based off of*. It happens as soon as the mon changes forms (So a Mega is the first thing to happen in a turn, while Meloetta is only after using Relic Song)
- If an unnatural type change occours, such as by Protean or Soak, the mon will keep it's original boost
Potential bans and threats: Chandelure, Garchomp, Toxapex, Kyurem-Black, some few others I'm still looking at
Questions for the community:

* What do I do about Castform, as it has two forms that boost HP by +20? I know that gaining HP midbattle is possible as of Zygarde-100% but not sure if losing is. Should I just ban it?

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As for the ideas suggested on this thread, I really like the one who uses Body Types and the one who uses Colors. I'd play them if they were approved. The one where you put a move on the item slot sounds cool too.

I really like the idea of this but I feel like it would be a lot better if ground switch with rock for what stat they boost do to ground types already having high attack and a good typing.

Potential bans and threats: Landorus-Therian, Volcarona, Gengar, Magearna, Buzzwole, Nihilego, Pinsir-Mega, Venusaur-Mega, Charizard-Mega, Zapdos, Salamence, Thundurus-Therian, Dragonite
New threats: Kommo-o, Tyrantrum, Froslass, Hawlucha, Rotom, Ludicolo, Vikavolt, Rotom-Heat, Alomomola, Swampert, Scyther, Audino-Mega, Diggersby

 

[AquaticPanic]

I really like the idea of this but I feel like it would be a lot better if ground switch with rock for what stat they boost do to ground types already having high attack and a good typing.

Potential bans and threats: Landorus-Therian, Volcarona, Gengar, Magearna, Buzzwole, Nihilego, Pinsir-Mega
New threats: Kommo-o, Tyrantrum, Froslass, Hawlucha, Rotom

Well, that could work to balance a few things (Specially Garchomp). I mean, it'd still benefit a lot of Ground types (Krook and LandoT with intimidate, Hippowdon) and still be useful. For the moment being the type/stat chart may change, and I guess that Rock switching with Ground wouldn't be that bad

Also probably relevant: I'll be AFK for the next few days so I won't be able to instantly reply. Will be back on Sunday Night

 

[DuoM2]

What do I do about Castform, as it has two forms that boost HP by +20? I know that gaining HP midbattle is possible as of Zygarde-100% but not sure if losing is. Should I just ban it?

Maybe the HP stat should just match the base form, since I've seen other metagames work like that.

On an unrelated note, do single-typed Pokemon get +40 in one stat to make up for only have one type or do they have just +20 in one stat?

 

[AquaticPanic]

Just +20.
I think for Castform and Casform only all forms will be boosted by +20 HP and just that. It's better then banning it

 

[GolisopodMan]

Metagame name: Monogen

Metagame premise: Simple really. You can only have Pokemon introduced in one generation on your team, somewhat like Monotype. Mono-Kanto, Mono-Johto, Mono-Hoenn, Mono-Sinnoh, Mono-Unova, Mono-Kalos, and Mono-Alola

For instance:
A Kanto Team can consist of Gengar/Starmie/Gyarados/Zapdos/Alakazam/Machamp, including the non-Uber Mega formes for the applicable mons. (that team is probably pretty bad but its just an example)
A Kanto Team CAN use Mega Venusaur, but it CANNOT use Tangrowth or Scizor (restricted to Mono-Sinnoh and Mono-Johto respectively) or Alolan Marowak (which is restricted to Mono-Alola teams).
A Kalos Team CAN use the Zygarde formes introduced in Sun and Moon. (They're banned though)

Potential bans (in addition to Ubers): Zygarde in general (Thousand Arrows gives Kalos teams unfair advantages over their competition)

There are a lot of possibilities here:

Generation 1 and 3 teams get access to Sun, Generation 2 and 3 get access to Rain, Generation 2, 4, and 5 get access to Sand, and Generation 4, 5, 6, and 7 get access to Hail.
Certain Pokemon get better as Pokemon that would generally outclass them are restricted to other teams. For example, Cloyster is one of the only choices on Kanto teams for Spikes. Blissey can now be not outclassed by Chansey.
Johto Sticky Web teams sound very threatening, especially when Mega Heracross gets released. (Unova Sticky Web is in a similiar boat, but Galvantula is worse as a setter than Shuckle/Smeargle)

Questions for the community:
What gen would likely be the "best" overall for offense, defense, or balance?
Is there anything else I should ban?
What should I do about Mega Formes (minus Mega Diancie, its obvious where that belongs) and Zygarde 10%/100%? Should I lock them to Kalos and Alola teams respectively, despite them being formes for mons introduced before those gens?

An interesting idea, though I feel like it's been mentioned at some point in the past...
That aside, getting rid of the Zygarde forms might be overkill. Just banning T-arrows and T-waves would be fair.
I would also follow the normal OU banlist, and I feel like Alola would dominate because of the Tapu's and the UBs, so those might be worth having a look at as well for their overwhelming power being restricted to one gen.

 

[Akumeoy]

Metagame name: Monogen

Metagame premise: Simple really. You can only have Pokemon introduced in one generation on your team, somewhat like Monotype. Mono-Kanto, Mono-Johto, Mono-Hoenn, Mono-Sinnoh, Mono-Unova, Mono-Kalos, and Mono-Alola

For instance:
A Kanto Team can consist of Gengar/Starmie/Gyarados/Zapdos/Alakazam/Machamp, including the non-Uber Mega formes for the applicable mons. (that team is probably pretty bad but its just an example)
A Kanto Team CAN use Mega Venusaur, but it CANNOT use Tangrowth or Scizor (restricted to Mono-Sinnoh and Mono-Johto respectively) or Alolan Marowak (which is restricted to Mono-Alola teams).
A Kalos Team CAN use the Zygarde formes introduced in Sun and Moon. (They're banned though)

Potential bans (in addition to Ubers): Zygarde in general (Thousand Arrows gives Kalos teams unfair advantages over their competition)

There are a lot of possibilities here:

Generation 1 and 3 teams get access to Sun, Generation 2 and 3 get access to Rain, Generation 2, 4, and 5 get access to Sand, and Generation 4, 5, 6, and 7 get access to Hail.
Certain Pokemon get better as Pokemon that would generally outclass them are restricted to other teams. For example, Cloyster is one of the only choices on Kanto teams for Spikes. Blissey can now be not outclassed by Chansey.
Johto Sticky Web teams sound very threatening, especially when Mega Heracross gets released. (Unova Sticky Web is in a similiar boat, but Galvantula is worse as a setter than Shuckle/Smeargle)

Questions for the community:
What gen would likely be the "best" overall for offense, defense, or balance?
Is there anything else I should ban?
What should I do about Mega Formes (minus Mega Diancie, its obvious where that belongs) and Zygarde 10%/100%? Should I lock them to Kalos and Alola teams respectively, despite them being formes for mons introduced before those gens?

Monogen was a thing last generation, where it either got OMotM or Leaders Choice once (I forget which).

 

[Samtendo09]

Warn me if this metagame could potentially become a Pet Mod, but it is still simple to understand and still follow a common rule.

Metagame name: Handicapped

Metagame premise: All positive Abilities will had their effect reversed to hinder the user. For example, Intimidate will increase the facing target's Attack instead of decreasing it, and Shift Swim will halve the user's Speed during the Rain weather. Hard-coded Abilities will either work inversed (Stance Change makes Aegislash into Defense if going to use Attacking Moves, and Disguise will make an Attacking Move to fail for one battle) or just fails to works (RKS System will fail).

Potential bans and threats: Since it is made to cripple all Pokémon does to the all-now-negative Abilities, I doubt that there could be any potential bans except of Pokémon that are not really that hindered by the Ability. However, the OU Clauses stills apply, with possible
unbans such as Kangaskhanite (get hit twice by all opponents, 25% for the second damage), and Blaziken as a whole (and this will include Blazikenite in the future). Skill Swap can become abusable (and actually finally got some use, even if broken), so I quickban Shadow Tag + Skill Swap as a safety measure.
Abilities that do nothing in battle or that don't do much can help certain Pokémon, especially that Blaze would not hinder the aforementioned Blaziken as much as Speed Boost would.

Questions for the community:
- Which strategy would get crippled the most; offensive, defensive, stall or balance?
- Are there still some Pokémon that could still fight despite having a disadvantage? Which of them could be threat to the point of a potential ban?
- Do Abilities that do nothing in Battles would actually let the Pokémon to fight without an disadvantage, or are there actually loopholes that some Pokémon can exploit their "disadvantages"?

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

Monogen was a thing last generation, where it either got OMotM or Leaders Choice once (I forget which).

Either way, I'd like to see it make a comeback of some kind.

I'd delete the original post, but I don't know how I'd handle it.

 

[SadisticMystic]

You certainly don't want to unban Gengarite, because Gengar can just use Skill Swap to inflict a version of Shadow Tag that's even more threatening: they're free to switch out to anyone at all, and you'll still be trapped while they presumably set up with impunity. That and even if they don't use Skill Swap (or if it fails because you switched in something like Wishiwashi), having the Ghost type means they're immune to the trapping effect of their own ability anyway.

 

[Samtendo09]

You certainly don't want to unban Gengarite, because Gengar can just use Skill Swap to inflict a version of Shadow Tag that's even more threatening: they're free to switch out to anyone at all, and you'll still be trapped while they presumably set up with impunity. That and even if they don't use Skill Swap (or if it fails because you switched in something like Wishiwashi), having the Ghost type means they're immune to the trapping effect of their own ability anyway.

Noticed. Mega Gengar is not the only one who can do that, but also Gothitelle. And Skill Swap can be broken in certain situations after some thoughts, so I reban Gengarite, but quickbanned the combined Shadow Tag + Skill Swap

 

[Cresselia92]

I wonder how the regular handicapping Abilities work. Like, does Regigigas start with its full stats and have its Attack and Speed halved after five turns? Does Archeops start with halved stats and gain full stats when it has the 50% of its HP? Does Stall make the user go first?

In an ironic twist, Truant remains pretty much unchanged, so RIP Slaking.

 

[Samtendo09]

I wonder how the regular handicapping Abilities work. Like, does Regigigas start with its full stats and have its Attack and Speed halved after five turns? Does Archeops start with halved stats and gain full stats when it has the 50% of its HP? Does Stall make the user go first?

In an ironic twist, Truant remains pretty much unchanged, so RIP Slaking.

I only said that the Positive Abilities are changed, so the negative abilities you mentioned will not changes.

 

[Kadabrium]

Just posting here, but im wondering if anyone has ever compiled a hackmons UU list?

Proposing the following cutoffs:
4% for pokemon as usual;
8% for abilities as there are roughly twice as many FE pokemon as there are abilities;
16% for moves as there are 4 moves on each pokemon.

I dont know where to find the detailed usage stats, so if someone can access them id like to see how such a tier list turns out

Edit: Im not sure how much the currently used tier cutoff % is, but their relative ratios should still apply.

 

[drampa's grandpa]

Just posting here, but im wondering if anyone has ever compiled a hackmons UU list?

Proposing the following cutoffs:
4% for pokemon as usual;
8% for abilities as there are roughly twice as many FE pokemon as there are abilities;
16% for moves as there are 4 moves on each pokemon.

I dont know where to find the detailed usage stats, so if someone can access them id like to see how such a tier list turns out

Edit: Im not sure how much the currently used tier cutoff % is, but their relative ratios should still apply.

The short answer is yes it's been done. Moves and abilities don't get banned in tier changes, just mons.

I think there's some problem with usage stats currently so this is a bad time to create that meta.

 

[Kadabrium]

The short answer is yes it's been done. Moves and abilities don't get banned in tier changes, just mons.

I think there's some problem with usage stats currently so this is a bad time to create that meta.

In hackmons, abilities and moves are chosen completely independently to pokemon, so it is only logical to assume those should be tiered also separately just like mega stones in MnM and abilities in AAA. This is also what now comprised the current Bh banlist. The exact cutoff number for their tiering would be left open to discussion.
If only pokemon are subject to tiering, it would allow more or less the same sets being run with the next highest BST, which isnt possible in other tiers where pokemon, moves and abilities have fixed associations.

 

[Rumors]

I've always felt that a (Balanced) Hackmons UU should do more than just remove Pokemon, because there's often not a lot of difference between, say, Gale Wings M-Ray and Gale Wings M-Salamence or normal-Ray, the latter of two which are probably in the UU cutoff. However, BH UU has been shot down repeatedly, so don't cross your fingers on any variant getting approved as an official meta.

Edit: Official meta? Official Other Meta? Official Unofficial Meta?