I misread it as being able to dynamin your own Pokemon.
I honestly love this. Manages to bring back Gods and Followers (kind of) which is dead cuz almost no ubers while almost managing to bring in a permamax mechanic which isn't (at first glance) overly broken or excessively simplifying (i.e. you have other mons to use other moves so it's not an attacking and Max Guard only meta).Someone has been asking for Dynamax ideas? Well, I may have just something for you. Say hello to...
KAIJUS & COHORTS
Metagame premise:
This is essentially a reprise of Gods and Followers, but with a little twist: the first slot will be dedicated to a Dynamax/Gigantamax Pokémon of your choice. Not only this Dynamax Pokémon will have all properties and immunities of Dynamax -- like double HP, Max/GMax Moves and immunities to phazing and weight-based moves -- but it will start Dynamaxed/Gigamaxed and stay Dynamaxed/Gigamaxed throughout the whole match!
However, just like with "Gods and Followers", there are a few restrictions:
- All "cohorts" must share at least a type with the "Kaiju". For example, you could have a Corviknight and Centiskorch with a GMax Charizard, but you wouldn't be able to have a Dracovish or Darmanitan-Galar as cohorts.
- If your "Kaiju" is knocked out, your whole team will be cursed for your blasphemy and fall under a permanent Embargo effect. So you should think twice before exposing your "Kaiju" to needless attacks.
Potential bans and threats:
- Gyarados [Kaiju]: A Pokémon capable of boosting its Speed as much as it wishes with Max Airstream and set up Rain with a potential partner in Dracovish and Barraskewda? Also, getting access to unkillable walls in the form of Toxapex and Corviknight? This doesn't sound broken at all! (/sarcasm)
Questions for the community:
Should the first slot allow Ubers as well? Zacian-Crowned sounds like a pretty nasty "Kaiju" capable of killing other "Kaijus" with Behemoth Blades and with a really good defensive typing -- which gives it access to powerful allies like Corviknight and Clefable -- but Zamazenta(-Crowned) and Eternatus seem a bit more balanced, both in terms of power and in terms of available allies.
This seems to have the same in-battle issues Dynamax itself has. It centralizes the battle around three specific turns and how well you use them, and, given that the mechanic would likely promote set-up spam similarly to a much, much, much buffed Memento, the best counter to the use of 'Dynaminning' is to counter with another use to block whatever they setup with and either revenge or attempt to countersweep.Dynamin:
The dynamax button will now, instead of enlarging your Pokémon for three turns, will shrink your opponent's Pokémon for three turns.
For that time period, all their Pokémon halve their hp and their attacks are treated as if they have a - 1 in the relevant stat.
This is kind of an edge case. It's true you're not making a ton of custom changes, and everything you're doing can be quantified by a rule. However you have several different changes based around the theme of putting gen 7 mons in gen 1 which makes it more similar to a pet mod than an OM.This has been coded https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/metagame-workshop.3598275/page-125#post-8150104
I’ve been told it falls under Pet Mod category, is this true? My version has a system of doing things that doesn’t allow for freedom, making it more along the lines of an OM.
Changes:
Fairy -> Normal
Steel -> Rock
Dark -> Normal
Special = (SpA + SpD) / 2
Missed this last time. You should check out this. Also this, which is an older version of the same thing.(Haven't come up with a name yet)
Metagame premise: Types of both pokemon and moves change to the next type alphabetically
Bug -> Dark
Dark -> Dragon
Dragon -> Electric
Electric -> Fairy
Fairy -> Fighting
Fighting -> Fire
Fire -> Flying
Flying -> Ghost
Ghost -> Grass
Grass -> Ground
Ground -> Ice
Ice -> Normal
Normal -> Poison
Poison -> Psychic
Psychic -> Rock
Rock -> Steel
Steel -> Water
Water -> Bug
Questions for the community:
- Should I make it so if a mon is shiny, the order goes backwards?
Also accepting name suggestions
Flipped
Premise: All pokemon have their base stats flipped. (HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe --> Spe/SpD/SpA/Def/Atk/HP)
With this simple flip, the roles of almost all pokemon are fundamentally changed. Fast, physical attackers turn into specially defensive tanks. Slow pokemon with high defenses are now glass cannons. High HP mons are now speed demons. Some may adapt to their new roles, others will not, and the overall patterns of stat distributions will be very different, creating a fundamentally different metagame. Those who come out on top may surprise you.
Accelgor @ Leftovers/Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Spikes/Toxic Spikes
- Recover
- Toxic
- U-turn
New Stats: 145/60/100/40/70/80
Accelgor is now a defensive behemoth that can make the transition smoothly thanks to access to recovery, a great ability for a wall, and a wide support movepool, which also includes Encore, Knock Off, and Yawn. It could also act as a good weather setter for rain teams, with Hydration removing status and reducing it's fire weakness.
Espeon @ Light Clay
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Morning Sun
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Psychic Fangs
New Stats: 110/95/130/60/65/65
Espeon is now an amazing Magic Bouncer thanks to its flipped stats. It has many alternatives to setting screens, including Tricking a Choice Scarf/Band, healing teammates with Wish, and setting up Trick Room for slow cannons like Shuckle. Xatu is also improved as a Magic Bouncer, but with its less impressive 95/70/95/70/75/65 stats, it should only be used over Espeon if you are making use of U-turn, Defog, Tailwind, or Thunder Wave, or if you are using a weather mon that makes Morning Sun unreliable.
Salazzle (F) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Corrosion
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Substitute
- Protect
- Encore/Dragon Tail
New Stats: 117/60/111/60/64/68
Salazzle can use its newfound physical bulk to finally abuse Corrosion Toxic. Its lack of recovery forces it to use stalling tactics, but it can stop opponents from setting up with either Encore or Dragon Tail.
Polteageist @ Leftovers
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Strength Sap
- Will-O-Wisp
- Aromatherapy
- Phantom Force/Sucker Punch
New Stats: 70/114/134/65/65/60
Polteageist takes Corsola's role as a defensive ghost with Strength Sap, Will-o-Wisp, and Cursed Body, but differs in its additional support options and is exclusively physical. It can serve as a cleric, Trick the opponents item, set up Reflect/Light Screen, or aid a sweeper in getting in to set up through Memento or Self-destruct. Unfortunately its physical movepool is too limited to make great use of Shell Smash and its high attack stat.
Defog users. Yes, believe it or not, Unfezant has a role in this meta as a specially defensive defogger with 93/55/65/80/115/80 stats. Noivern and Hawlucha both have higher HP and lower but more balanced defenses--Noivern has 123/80/97/80/70/85, while Hawlucha has 118/63/74/75/93/78. All three of them sport Roost, Defog, and Taunt. Unfezant and Noivern both have Tailwind and U-turn. Noivern can also Whirlwind or Taunt/attack through subs with Infiltrator. Hawlucha, on the other hand, is neutral to Stealth Rock, reducing the need for Heavy-Duty Boots, and has Encore for support and Body Press to make it less passive.
Terrakion @ Leftovers/Iapapa Berry
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Double Kick
- Rock Slide
- Stealth Rock
- Quick Attack
New Stats: 108/90/72/90/129/91
This set looks very strange at first, but consider that this metagame has many glass cannons with high SpA and abysmal HP, most of whom use Sturdy or Focus Sash and are weak to Fighting or Rock moves (especially physical ones). This special tank is specifically tailored to deal with many of them. Double Kick smashes through their Sturdy or Focus Sash, while Quick Attack can pick off a nuke that already boosted its speed while taking the first hit. Rock slide provides a more reliable general purpose STAB that can hit Flying switchins, while Stealth Rock gives it extra utility. It should be noted that while Terrakion has some impressive special bulk, it may still not be able to hold up to Steel attacks from Steelix or Melmetal.
Some other possibilities...
Dragapult: 142/75/100/75/120/88; Infiltrator; Will-o-wisp, Reflect/Light Screen, U-turn, Thunder Wave, Hex, Dragon Darts (for Sturdy glass cannons)
Drifblim: 80/54/90/44/80/150; Aftermath; Strength Sap, Trick, Will-o-Wisp, Thunder Wave, Destiny Bond, Tailwind
Sigilyph: 97/80/103/80/58/72; Magic Guard; Roost, Psycho Shift, Trick Room, Trick, Reflect/Light Screen, Whirlwind, Thunder Wave, Calm Mind, Cosmic Power, Tailwind
Swoobat: 114/55/77/55/57/67; Unaware; Roost, Trick Room, Thunder Wave, Reflect/Light Screen, U-turn
Excadrill: 88/65/50/60/135/110; Mold Breaker--MB lets it set Stealth Rock in the face of Espeon/Xatu, which is very useful for ensuring that you can break the Sturdy/Sash on the glass cannons, and it can clear hazards on your side with Rapid Spin, and it has a great SpD stat, but its offenses are pretty abysmal for hitting everything other than the SturdyMons.Potential bans: Almost all metagames that give Shedinja more than one HP end up quickbanning it. However, I'm not entirely sure if that's necessary in this meta. With its atrocious 40/30/30/45/90/1 stats, its options for hurting anything are really limited to status, making it incredibly passive and probably not too hard to work around. Then again, its potentially salvageable 40/90 SpD combined with its immunities could still make it a pain to deal with. Other pokemon I would keep my eye on include Goodra and some of the glass cannons such as Shuckle and Steelix. The game follows the standard OU banlist.
Goodra @ Choice Band
Ability: Sap Sipper/Gooey
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Thunder Punch/Fire Punch
- Power Whip/Superpower/Iron Tail/Rock Slide
Sap Sipper/Hydration/Gooey
New Stats: 80/150/110/70/100/90
An incredibly powerful wallbreaker, with solid defenses and surprisingly good speed for this meta. Could be deadly with Sticky Web support. It can already provide some of its own speed control with Gooey, but it will probably prefer to have free switch-ins to grass moves to boost its power even higher.
Hippowdon
Hippowdon @ Choice Specs/Life Orb
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Earth Power
- Weather Ball
- Muddy Water
- Stealth Rock/Slack Off
New Stats: 47/72/68/118/112/108
Hippowdon is a surprisingly effective special cleaner, with a very high speed for this metagame and one of the best special rock moves of any metagame. While its defensive frailty isn't quite as extreme as some other mons listed below, it still needs to be kept away from such attacks, but its special defense is good enough that it could afford to lay out some rocks or even recover against the right opponents.
Togekiss @ Leftovers/Life Orb
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Play Rough
- Extreme Speed
- Aerial Ace/Smart Strike/Drain Punch
- Morning Sun
New Stats: 80/115/120/95/50/85
Good wallbreaker with big Hustle boost, solid defense, and decent speed, and can pick off faster things with Extremespeed.
Tyranitar: 61/100/95/110/134/100; Sand Stream--Can go special, physical, or mixed with its huge movepool. Mixed Dragon Dance is probably the way to go--much faster than standard TTar, not too hard to set up with its giant Sand Stream-boosted SpD, and has good special attack to help get past selected physical walls. Movepool has (Physical:) Dragon Dance, Rock Slide/Stone Edge, Crunch, Earthquake, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Thunder Punch, Low Kick, (Special:) Dark Pulse, Flamethrower/Fire Blast, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Earth Power.
Next up, some noticeable patterns. Firstly, there are a lot of good offensive water types. Surely this will lead to some new defensive threats not mentioned above that are designed to counter these water monsters.
Blastoise @ Leftovers/Focus Sash
Ability: Torrent/Rain Dish
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Shell Smash
- Liquidation
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
New Stats: 78/105/85/100/83/79
Similar to what Blastoise now does in standard, but with improved mixed offenses allowing it to make much better use of it's big move pool. Special options include Scald/Surf/Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Dark Pulse, Aura Sphere, Dragon Pulse, and Flash Cannon. Physical options include Liquidation, Ice Punch, Crunch, Zen Headbutt, Earthquake, and Aqua Jet. Can also support and speed itself up with Rapid Spin.
Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Coil
- Recover
- Aqua Tail
- Dragon Tail/Iron Tail
New Stats: 81/125/100/79/60/95
The physical attacking movepool has a lot to be desired, but it has almost perfect stats for a Coil user. Could invest differently in speed or defense, or even run Dragon Dance.
Other offensive waters:
Araquanid: 42/132/50/92/70/68; Water Bubble--extremely destructive Liquidation, but frail and not super fast. Use Webs, Scarf, or Trick Room.
Lapras: 60/95/85/80/85/130-- very speedy mixed revenge killer. Has Dragon Dance but bad physical movepool.
Whiscash: 60/71/76/73/78/110-- similar to Lapras but w/ worse stats in exchange for better typing & movepool to use DD
Dracovish: 75/80/70/100/100/90--very similar to standard, but with better speed in exchange for slightly lower attack
Arctovish: 55/90/80/100/90/90-- can now compete with Draco w/ same speed, slightly better attack stat, and nice Ice STAB, but still has defensive problems
Even more notable than all the water types, this metagame is marked by a large number of extreme glass cannons. Pokemon that originally had gargantuan defense and terrible speed now have an insane offensive stat (usually SpA) and paper-thin HP, though some have Sturdy to make things easier for them. These pokemon will be very weak to priority and will need support to reliably bash things. Multi-hit moves might also see a rise in usage to destroy the Sturdy users. Here are some examples that could be meta-defining.
Steelix @ Life Orb/Focus Sash / Expert Belt
Ability: Sheer Force/Sturdy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Flash Cannon
- Dark Pulse
- Rock Polish
New Stats: 30/65/55/200/85/75
Earth Power, Flash Cannon, Dark Pulse, Rock Polish
It really wants to use Sheer Force but Sturdy makes it much easier to set up. Sticky Web or Screens/Memento support could help.
Melmetal @ Choice Specs
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flash Cannon
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Steel Beam
New Stats: 34/65/80/143/143/135
Melmetal is blessed with one of the highest speeds in the metagame, so it doesn't need to go through the danger of setting up and can nuke things right away. This is essentially the full extent of its special movepool, but for a mon with only two coverage moves, BoltBeam is as good as it gets. Steel Beam provides a nuke for when it really needs it.
Torkoal @ Focus Sash
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower/Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Earth Power
- Shell Smash
New Stats: 20/70/85/140/85/70
Boost and blaze. Needs hazard removal support.
Shuckle @ Expert Belt
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpA
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Rock Slide
- Earth Power/Earthquake
- Gyro Ball/Sludge Bomb
- Knock Off
5/230/10/230/10/20
The most extreme glass cannon you can get. Wet tissue paper laced with explosives. With Sturdy and TR support, it will break things.
Some Other Glass Cannons
Avalugg: 28/46/44/184/117/95; Sturdy--Can play similar to the above Steelix set, or make a great user of Choice Scarf, with Ice Beam, Flash Cannon, and Surf/Hydro Pump. Last slot could be a last ditch Stealth Rock or Rapid Spin.
Coalossal: 30/90/80/120/80/110; Flash Fire/Flame Body--Special attacker that's fast from the start. Has Flamethrower/Fire Blast, Earth Power, and Scald, with Stealth Rock, Spikes, Rapid Spin, or a physical rock move for the last slot.
Special circumstances: In normal play, many pokemon who change form mid-battle acquire a new speed stat, which in this meta would result in a new HP--an event which cannot occur. This means that all form-changing pokemon will retain the HP of the base form, derived from said base form's original speed stat. So,Minior would always have 120 HP from its Core Form's original speed, Wishiwashi would always have 40 HP from its Solo Form's original speed, and so on. Not sure which form of Eiscue is considered the base, so please tell me if you know.
Most of those metagames create far fewer changes to the innate roles of pokemon. In Tier Shift, everyone does the same thing as in standard, it's just that the formerly weak ones are beefed up. In Scalemons, once again, everyone's play styles are the same but their stats are just buffed or nerfed relative to each other--since unevolved pokemon tend to have the most extreme stat differences, Scalemons largely becomes a weird Little Cup. In Reversed, pokemon do have their roles switched between being physical and special, but a wall is still a wall and a sweeper is still a sweeper, and in fact much of the cast in Reversed ends up being the same as in standard, just doing their role on the other side of the spectrum.
Flipped is uniquely different from that, in that almost all pokemon now function in completely different ways. Where else have fat mons been forced to live life as blazingly fast? Where else have sweepers been forced to try their hand as walls? Where else have slow tanks been forced to act as glass cannons? All this, despite everyone's BST being exactly the same.
The Negative Metagame is the only other OM I can think of that has created a similar role reversal. Its calculation formula--160 minus existing stat (which is more complicated and arbitrary)--favors pokemon with extremely low BST, creating a kind of reverse LC with some weird ones like Shuckle thrown in. In some ways Flipped can be seen as the OU counterpart to this, as it is a kind of reverse standard that also has some weird ones like Shuckle. However, Flipped is less restrictive than The Negative Metagame. Both OMs create the phenomenon of pokemon trying to make due with a movepool that wasn't designed for their new role, but since fully evolved pokemon have better movepools, there are more tools to make the transition, so there is a better diversity of choices. Flipped is also unique in that there are a select few pokemon that return from standard without having changed at all (Mew, Celebi, Jirachi) or very little (Dracovish), creating some interesting dynamics between the old and the new. With no changes to anyone's BST, the metagame truly becomes an exploration on how stat distribution controls a pokemon's fortunes. Flipped also has a simpler, less arbitrary, and more consistent formula for stats, making it more user-friendly and a more logical choice for the main reversal-style metagame. And in any event, there hasn't been a post in The Negative Metagame's thread since 2016, so really doesn't seem like TNM has much of a current following anyway.
I changed it to use the special formula for Gen 1 mons, already? The type changes you suggested make it more like a Pet Mod? Anyway, there’s no room for creativity - everything is uniformly determined. I’m not asking for 7 different past Gen OMs - Gen 3-7 definitely deserve a Pet Mod. But Gen 1 and 2 could easily go by a simple format that would define them as an OM.This is kind of an edge case. It's true you're not making a ton of custom changes, and everything you're doing can be quantified by a rule. However you have several different changes based around the theme of putting gen 7 mons in gen 1 which makes it more similar to a pet mod than an OM.
In order for me to see this as an OM I think you'd have to
- get rid of the type changes (IE make stuff like Steelix pure Ground, make stuff like Registeel just not have a type, forget dark -> normal that's subjective af). Turning mons without types into Normal could work if necessary ig but I would prefer a lack of typing because there's nothing really inherent about normal that makes it the 'base type' besides flavor.
- keep the special stat calcs absolutely consistent (IE dont use mons gen 1 special, use their average spa+spd)
overall it seems fun but with a relatively high barrier to entry. I feel like it may compete with certain pet mods (which do something similar) too much.
This is just OU at level 50 with a couple secondary restrictions that don't change much. I don't see it playing out very differently than OU, and personally wouldn't approve.
The big difference between this and OU is that battle stadium rules are official and not decided by the community but rather the Pokemon company. Smogon’s rules are always changing and it would be nice to have a static 6v6 rule set. It’s also pretty highly requested to be in game as far as I’ve seen so why not bring it to showdown? I believe it would be a very different meta from OU. It would be easy to implement, easy to manage, and have a community.
Your quote seems out of context and you didn’t add anything after quoting. Did you mean to do this?This is just OU at level 50 with a couple secondary restrictions that don't change much. I don't see it playing out very differently than OU, and personally wouldn't approve.
The big difference between this and OU is that battle stadium rules are official and not decided by the community but rather the Pokemon company. Smogon’s rules are always changing and it would be nice to have a static 6v6 rule set. It’s also pretty highly requested to be in game as far as I’ve seen so why not bring it to showdown? I believe it would be a very different meta from OU. It would be easy to implement, easy to manage, and have a community.
Eeh, I'm not sure regarding secondary effects. On one hand, it can make moves like Scald useless now, being less damaging (though if you hate that move, that's a good thing). On the other hand, suggesting that secondary effects to always happens would not be better with a few very annoying statuses to take into consideration (always Flinch or Freeze? No sir, no thanks).RNG-LessEvery aspect of RNG is changed to return a fixed result. Pokemon always do the same amount of damage with each move. All secondary effects are canceled. Every timer is fixed.
Question to the community:
Would this be enjoyable to play?
There was a similar idea from last gen that sounded much more interesting. All moves were given 100% accuracy and no secondary effects, but their base power was lowered or raised depending on how much their accuracy was raised and how likely their effects were. To use Fire Blast as an example:RNG-LessEvery aspect of RNG is changed to return a fixed result. Pokemon always do the same amount of damage with each move. All secondary effects are canceled. Every timer is fixed.
Question to the community:
Would this be enjoyable to play?
You are forgetting something. It disables items and abilities that choice lock.DynaMin
Metagame Premise: Nerf Dynamax until it's not banworthy.
Apparently Dynamax is overpowered, and keeps getting banned. We should do something about this, so that people can use this new mechanic. Let's see what Dynamax gives you:
We could nerf this in a number of ways:
- It doubles your HP
- It gives you immunity to flinching and phasing and some miscellaneous effects
- It gives you Max Moves, which have more power and additional effects
- It lasts for three turns
Note that even with the first four of these options applied, Dynamax is still more powerful than Z-moves (because you can still hold an item).
- Reducing the number of turns spent in Dynamax
- Reducing the HP boost of Dynamax
- Removing Dynamax's immunities (flinch, phasing)
- Removing the secondary effects of Max Moves
- Removing Max Moves
this exists already but in the form of one team gets either the first 3 or last 3, and i think that idea works better because you can have a bit more strategy to your teambuilding and making combos that work/counter each otherMirrormons
Metagame premise: Both players will use the same team that consists of three mons randomly picked from both original teams, making the games mirror matches where both players affect how it plays like.
Example:
Player 1 picked these mons:
Player 2 picked these mons:
This would be one of the possible teams that both players end up using:
Being able to properly evaluate each matchup would be the key to consistent winning.
Potential bans and threats: Metagame would probably have OU banlist. Nothing is really broken because both players would always run it at the same time.
Questions for the community: Could both players picking the same mon break the Species Clause?
Would speed ties be too impactful?
Would people running joke sets ruin the meta or be part of its charm?
I'm aware of that meta concept (Hemiswap) but I think picking 3 bad mons and 3 good mons kind of ruins it as it essentially turns the match into a coinflip. I also find mirror matches quite interesting, though I admit that my meta concept was quite silly.this exists already but in the form of one team gets either the first 3 or last 3, and i think that idea works better because you can have a bit more strategy to your teambuilding and making combos that work/counter each other