Project Metagame Workshop

[Giagantic]

If one team member (e.g. Breloom) has Toxic Orb, another team member (e.g. Ursaluna) has Flame Orb, and you lead with a 3rd team member (e.g. Dragapult), which orb procs/triggers first? Would it be random or not?

Also, by "but if the original user uses it then the rest of the team does as well" regarding single-use items, does that mean that the rest of the team procs the item successfully when the original holder uses it (e.g. original Sitrus Berry holder is Rotom-W, Rotom-W eats its Sitrus Berry, does the 90%-HP Blissey in the back heal too?), or do they attempt to proc it but conditionally fail (e.g. that Blissey doesn't heal, but 26%-HP Baxcalibur in the back heals)?


Regardless of whether this is better off in the Pet Mods section or not...
...Chuck Aegislash from this meta entirely; it's from Gen 6.

If the one holding the berry uses it, it is gone unless recycle or harvest proc's, since the berry only works when in play the rest team does not benefit from the original user using it, as such they lose access to it, again unless recycle or harvest.

Flame Orb versus Toxic Orb can simply be a team order based effect, ie, it prioritizes whomever is in a higher slot unless it is the item it holds. Example, if for some reason you are running both, a Toxic Orb holder in slot 1 will go first over a Flame Orb user in slot 2, but if you brought out the Flame Orb user, they'd be burned since they are the holder of the item. (I hope that clarifies that)

In the end, my rules may be arbitrary and Kris if they programmed it may just simply make it so all 6 Pokemon have access to 6 items and see how the game handles it rather then tacking on these rules, we will see if it goes through or not.

 

[KaenSoul]

I didn't check all previous metagames existing so far, but I think this wasn't suggested yet. I didn't mention it before, but thank you in advance for your interest and comments !

Updatemon
​

Metagame Premise :

Single battle 6v6. A Pokémon replaces its last move used with the opponent's as soon as the latter is defeated with.

Example : Dragapult [Choice Specs] vs Spidops [Focus Sash]

1st turn => Spidops manadges to put the Sticky Web on the ground despite losing its Focus Sash because of Flamethrower;
View attachment 544872Flamethrower/Draco Meteor/U-Turn/Shadow Ball =>View attachment 544871Sticky Web/Spikes/Circle Throw/Memento

2nd turn => Dragapult moves first and defeats Spidops, then replaces its move Flamethrower with Sticky Web.
View attachment 544872Sticky Web/Draco Meteor/U-Turn/Shadow Ball

This includes :

• Unlimited change : one moveslot can have a new move as many times as opponents are defeated with.​
• Complete set change : all moveslots can have a new move.​

This doesn't include :

• Latent change : A Pokémon won't change moves if its opponent faints from status/hazards/weather/latent (Doom Desire, Future Sight/Leech Seed/Sandstorm) damages.

Clauses :

• Same Move Clause : Pokémons from a same team can't share identical moves ;
• Smogon-wide Clause.

Bans :

Pokémons : Arceus (all forms), Calyrex-Ice, Calyrex-Shadow, Dialga (both forms), Ethernatus, Giratina (both forms), Groudon, Koraidon, Kyogre, Landorus, Magearna (both forms), Mewtwo, Miraidon, Palafin (both forms), Palkia (both forms), Rayquaza, Spectrier, Zacian (both forms), Zamazenta (both forms) ;

Abilities : Arena Trap, Contrary, Moody, Sand Veil, Shadow Tag, Snow Cloack, Speed Boost ;

Moves : Baton Pass, Last Respects, Shed Tail, Shell Smash.

Q&A :

Q1 : Do Pokémons that changed moves keep them once out of battle ?
A1 : Yes, they do.

Q2 : Does the replacement happen when Pokémons use suicide moves ?
A2 : Yes, only if Pokémons on both sides faint.

Q3 : What happens if a Pokémon defeats its opponent before it could do anything ?
A3 : There's no move change happening.

Q4 : Does the replacement happen if the opponent is hit by a physical/special move and faints because of a secondary effect ?
A4+N : No, the process only works with hits, so secondary effects are ignored. Note : as a consequence, for example, a Pokémon can't get a new move if it defeated its opponent with statut moves like Confuse Ray/Toxic/Will-o-wisp/Leech Seed/Destiny Bond/Sandstorm ; but it could do it with Assist/Copycat/Me First/Metronome/Mirror Move.

This seems like a neat idea, but may end being a bit annoying to play in practice, as you may often be forced to give up on important coverage moves in order to make progress, you may even cripple your wallbreaker before it can finish its job, would like to see what others here think about it as it may still be worth a shot but doesn't seem like there is much interest.

 

[Waldinji]

A Metagame concept Submitted by the Ruins of Alph Community , People's interest within this Community , a Banlist & A metagame already starting to be explored. With these 3 Things mentioned , I'll introduce , Thanks to ADragonsEye on Pokemon Showdown: RBY 1.4


Introduction:

Have you ever wondered how it would be like if Pokémon from newer generations came into the metagame of older ones? Well, Thats kind of the premise of RBY 1.4. It brings Pokémon up to generation 4 into RBY's primitive metagame. No items, moves, or even abilities are added, but Pokémon which have Steel or Dark in their typing get to keep it. This makes for a suprisingly complex and more strategic version of RBY, and one where a lot of mons considered bad or unviable make it into UU and even OU.


Clauses:

Standard RBY Clauses Are Applied Other Than:
- Tradebacks are Allowed! (Yes: Tradebacks ARE allowed! And not just Gen 2 to 1- You can have moves from gen 4, as long as they are in RBY, Creating Pokémon options like Houndoom with Super Fang or Skarmory With Swords Dance.)
- Two Turn Moves Are Allowed. (Yes, you heard me right: Two Turn Moves are allowed. It's a shame most Pokémon which need moves like Fly or Dig have them locked behind bars. Now your Aerodactyl can have Fly, And Your Machamp Dig!)


Mods:

Standard RBY Mods are Applied
Restriction:

- Banned Pokémon: Uber Pokémon. ( All Uber Pokémon in gen 4 are banned with the exeption of This might get changed with some Pokémon like Manaphy, Which might leave Uber due to their weak power level.)
- Amnesia: Yes. That's right. Amnesia is completely banned. The move is very degenerate, As it's basically 2 Calm Minds in One Turn. Just the fact that there exist team types like "Paramnesia" in RBY shows how powerful this move is. And the only two good mons who, even they, couldn't fully abuse it, were around: Slowbro and Snorlax. Now, So many Pokémon get it, Where I am writing the ones who would range from Good Move Abusers to Uber Material like the likes of Venusaur, Lanturn, Uxie, Mamoswine, Regice, Etc. So, MY point stands: So many Pokémon get it to the point that I belive OU would turn into a dementia party.

(OTHER BANNED POKEMON)
- Slaking and Regigas: Both enjoy not having abilities that limit their amazing stats, especially Slaking, Who Unlike Gigas, Practically Gets EVERY RBY cheese move: Body Slam, Rest, Amnesia, Etc etc etc. In fact, I belive Slaking is a top tier Uber.
- Rhyperior and Blissey: Both are upgrades of already good Pokémon, especially Blissey, Who as of now, It's preevolution is considered a S Tier Pokémon.
- Azelf: Azelf is completely brain dead and degenerate. I cannot image going against this behemoth of a lead who you need to bend your team to beat. Explosion, Good psychic coverage, status, good speed, etc. Etc. Etc.


GUIDELINES TO THE TIER:
What you see as the Thumbnail is the Viablity Ranking. I will mainly go over the 3 Kings of the tier: Metagross, Starmie, and Chansey. Forget the old Big 3, Step away Tauros, for we have ...

Metagross is seen as the best pokemon in the format in this early period of 1.4 for what may be obvious reasons , but at the same time , The Meteor Mash Loss & Explosion Being 170BP is some valuable nerfs to it. However , none of this matters with how Important Metagross is to the tier. It checks & Counters so many mons , Including but not Limited to: Certain Metagross variants , Starmie , Empoleon , Zam , Tauros & Lucario. But not only does it check an amazing list of pokemon on defense , And also high offensive threats pool with Explosion , Stab Psychic , Earthquake or the Elemental Punches coming from a decent Special Stat. Metagross’s rest is Surprisingly its highlight , as the Pokemon with the Most utility in the format , Having it be as long as possible is what makes Metagross so Amazing in 1.4 in this incredibly Bulky Metagame that has Struggle Damaging too effectively Metagross. His influence on the format cannot be Overstated , Many Pokemon starting to run Fire Blast & A lot of Special Coverage to try & Catch Metagross on his weaker Special stat

Our First gen 1 OU Performer being back into this wacky format. Starmie is as amazing as he was in gen 1 , Arguably even better as a consistant Check to Metagross , Empoleon & Infernape Notably. Similar to gen 1 , The defensive Uses is what let Starmie Shine in 1.4 , with 32PP Recover being a big deal and Thunder Wave being as Spreadable as ever. Starmie is the best Thunder Wave Spammer due to his High Speed & consistant Switch-ins some of the best pokemon in the game to click either Thunder Wave or Recover. The offensive pressure of Starmie might be its one downfall compared to Metagross & Why it’s ranked Lower , Starmie just doesn’t do enough on offense and Is usually walled by Metagross , Chansey , Jirachi or Milotic. However , All of: The defensive Utility , Invaluable chip against mons without recovery & Paralysis in some way makes Starmie a useful way to make progress against most teams in some Capacity.

A gen 1 Staple making his way into 1.4 Yet again. Chansey looks like it’s Literally MADE for gen 1 , And with the meta being as focused on Special Attackers as it is , Partially thanks to Metagross Making Fire Blast a lot more common. Fire Blast being a lot more common on Many mons , including Chansey Himself to try & Bait Metagross specifically into taking enormous , often lethal damage and the extra Status being thrown around with Burn makes Chansey even better. Chansey being the best Status Absorber in the game Helps Both that it doesn’t care about paralysis and largely prefers paralysis than freeze or Sleep , But also helps with Burns spreading from fire Blast being common right now. Chansey isn’t just a defensive pokemon either , As it can make a surprising amount of progress from Twave against Bulky pokemon , Seismic Toss to Bypass Screen & Either Fire Blast to lure in Jirachi & Meta and ruin physical attackers , or Reflect , who can help guaranteeing more chip on Physical attackers or Serves to make Chansey what it’s best known for , Annoying! All these tools allow Chansey to beat most of the Metagame in some way , Countering very Notably: Infernape , Suicune , Starmie , Milotic , Swampert (With Reflect up) & Chansey Himself.

 

[Tea Guzzler]

A Metagame concept Submitted by the Ruins of Alph Community , People's interest within this Community , a Banlist & A metagame already starting to be explored. With these 3 Things mentioned , I'll introduce , Thanks to ADragonsEye on Pokemon Showdown: RBY 1.4


Introduction:

Have you ever wondered how it would be like if Pokémon from newer generations came into the metagame of older ones? Well, Thats kind of the premise of RBY 1.4. It brings Pokémon up to generation 4 into RBY's primitive metagame. No items, moves, or even abilities are added, but Pokémon which have Steel or Dark in their typing get to keep it. This makes for a suprisingly complex and more strategic version of RBY, and one where a lot of mons considered bad or unviable make it into UU and even OU.


Clauses:

Standard RBY Clauses Are Applied Other Than:
- Tradebacks are Allowed! (Yes: Tradebacks ARE allowed! And not just Gen 2 to 1- You can have moves from gen 4, as long as they are in RBY, Creating Pokémon options like Houndoom with Super Fang or Skarmory With Swords Dance.)
- Two Turn Moves Are Allowed. (Yes, you heard me right: Two Turn Moves are allowed. It's a shame most Pokémon which need moves like Fly or Dig have them locked behind bars. Now your Aerodactyl can have Fly, And Your Machamp Dig!)


Mods:

Standard RBY Mods are Applied
Restriction:

- Banned Pokémon: Uber Pokémon. ( All Uber Pokémon in gen 4 are banned with the exeption of This might get changed with some Pokémon like Manaphy, Which might leave Uber due to their weak power level.)
- Amnesia: Yes. That's right. Amnesia is completely banned. The move is very degenerate, As it's basically 2 Calm Minds in One Turn. Just the fact that there exist team types like "Paramnesia" in RBY shows how powerful this move is. And the only two good mons who, even they, couldn't fully abuse it, were around: Slowbro and Snorlax. Now, So many Pokémon get it, Where I am writing the ones who would range from Good Move Abusers to Uber Material like the likes of Venusaur, Lanturn, Uxie, Mamoswine, Regice, Etc. So, MY point stands: So many Pokémon get it to the point that I belive OU would turn into a dementia party.

(OTHER BANNED POKEMON)
- Slaking and Regigas: Both enjoy not having abilities that limit their amazing stats, especially Slaking, Who Unlike Gigas, Practically Gets EVERY RBY cheese move: Body Slam, Rest, Amnesia, Etc etc etc. In fact, I belive Slaking is a top tier Uber.
- Rhyperior and Blissey: Both are upgrades of already good Pokémon, especially Blissey, Who as of now, It's preevolution is considered a S Tier Pokémon.
- Azelf: Azelf is completely brain dead and degenerate. I cannot image going against this behemoth of a lead who you need to bend your team to beat. Explosion, Good psychic coverage, status, good speed, etc. Etc. Etc.


GUIDELINES TO THE TIER:
What you see as the Thumbnail is the Viablity Ranking. I will mainly go over the 3 Kings of the tier: Metagross, Starmie, and Chansey. Forget the old Big 3, Step away Tauros, for we have ...

Metagross is seen as the best pokemon in the format in this early period of 1.4 for what may be obvious reasons , but at the same time , The Meteor Mash Loss & Explosion Being 170BP is some valuable nerfs to it. However , none of this matters with how Important Metagross is to the tier. It checks & Counters so many mons , Including but not Limited to: Certain Metagross variants , Starmie , Empoleon , Zam , Tauros & Lucario. But not only does it check an amazing list of pokemon on defense , And also high offensive threats pool with Explosion , Stab Psychic , Earthquake or the Elemental Punches coming from a decent Special Stat. Metagross’s rest is Surprisingly its highlight , as the Pokemon with the Most utility in the format , Having it be as long as possible is what makes Metagross so Amazing in 1.4 in this incredibly Bulky Metagame that has Struggle Damaging too effectively Metagross. His influence on the format cannot be Overstated , Many Pokemon starting to run Fire Blast & A lot of Special Coverage to try & Catch Metagross on his weaker Special stat

Our First gen 1 OU Performer being back into this wacky format. Starmie is as amazing as he was in gen 1 , Arguably even better as a consistant Check to Metagross , Empoleon & Infernape Notably. Similar to gen 1 , The defensive Uses is what let Starmie Shine in 1.4 , with 32PP Recover being a big deal and Thunder Wave being as Spreadable as ever. Starmie is the best Thunder Wave Spammer due to his High Speed & consistant Switch-ins some of the best pokemon in the game to click either Thunder Wave or Recover. The offensive pressure of Starmie might be its one downfall compared to Metagross & Why it’s ranked Lower , Starmie just doesn’t do enough on offense and Is usually walled by Metagross , Chansey , Jirachi or Milotic. However , All of: The defensive Utility , Invaluable chip against mons without recovery & Paralysis in some way makes Starmie a useful way to make progress against most teams in some Capacity.

A gen 1 Staple making his way into 1.4 Yet again. Chansey looks like it’s Literally MADE for gen 1 , And with the meta being as focused on Special Attackers as it is , Partially thanks to Metagross Making Fire Blast a lot more common. Fire Blast being a lot more common on Many mons , including Chansey Himself to try & Bait Metagross specifically into taking enormous , often lethal damage and the extra Status being thrown around with Burn makes Chansey even better. Chansey being the best Status Absorber in the game Helps Both that it doesn’t care about paralysis and largely prefers paralysis than freeze or Sleep , But also helps with Burns spreading from fire Blast being common right now. Chansey isn’t just a defensive pokemon either , As it can make a surprising amount of progress from Twave against Bulky pokemon , Seismic Toss to Bypass Screen & Either Fire Blast to lure in Jirachi & Meta and ruin physical attackers , or Reflect , who can help guaranteeing more chip on Physical attackers or Serves to make Chansey what it’s best known for , Annoying! All these tools allow Chansey to beat most of the Metagame in some way , Countering very Notably: Infernape , Suicune , Starmie , Milotic , Swampert (With Reflect up) & Chansey Himself.

OMs generally don't do anything that involves beinging back older generations, whether it's simply a past-gen OM or whether it bridges mechanics across generations (MnM and Gen 6 PH are exceptions that have been grandfathered in). Modern Gen 1 also exists as a pet mod and is conceptually basically the same as this, albeit including everything up to Gen 9.

 

[Genuine_Angus_B33F]

An other metagame should be able to build upon the current meta, not take away from it, and if it does take away from it, doing so in a way that it gives something back of equal or greater depth or value.

This is not a good guideline. The Example OM itself is a meta that just removes a mechanic, and reducing options doesn't necessarily detract from depth.

But I do understand not wanting to flood the format page on the teambuilder with a bunch of low effort "Current Meta without this one specific thing!" games. Producing a potentially deep and unique gameplay experience is a bare minimum requirement here. There has to be something more to a metagame alteration to make it worthwhile, not just compared to the completely vanilla version of the game, but compared to the now numerous existing alternate rulesets.

This is where I maybe want to spark discussion of sorts. I don't really see a lot of space left for OM ideas. In the past 15 pages of this forum over the course of 4 months, there has been 1 new meta idea that successfully launched, Frantic Fusions, and the idea behind it is basically a mix of Inheritance and Cross Evolutions. A ton of the things listed as banned idea concepts are just bullet points that say not to make suggestions that overlap with what already exists or has been tried before.

When ideas don't heavily overlap with existing formats, they brush up against the rigidity of what makes an OM, hence the suggestions to turn ideas into Pet Mods. But then Pet Mods are usually characterized by creating completely custom content, arbitrary mechanics changes to specific game elements, and communal voting around the inclusion of those elements. Lots of ideas don't fit the rules of an OM, but don't fit that standard mold of a Pet Mod either. Their best home is as a Solo Mod, but that area sees significantly less traffic, so people don't really post there much. (Which is a huge shame!)

My best suggestion would be to loosen the rules for OMs in some way, but I don't know if anything should necessarily change. It isn't as though the vetting process is unfair. There just isn't much left to explore within these constraints.

 

[KaenSoul]

My best suggestion would be to loosen the rules for OMs in some way, but I don't know if anything should necessarily change. It isn't as though the vetting process is unfair. There just isn't much left to explore within these constraints.

While it is true that it is getting hard to come up with new ideas, we also aren't starving for them, it may look like we aren't approving that many but the amount of OMs playable in gen9 is already about the same as last gen, if people can come up with ideas that fit with what we are looking for, that would be great, you are right into thinking that we don't need to change the rules right now.

 

[Yveltal for PU]

Spooky Season

When a Pokemon faints, it is immediately revived to 100% HP and sent to the back of your party, however its primary typing now becomes Ghost.

Good stuff:
- Fast ghost & dark type Pokemon
- Hazards as there is more Pokemon to be hurt by em and revived mons will have less chance to be Flying, Steel or Poison increasing the effectiveness of some hazards.
- Some leads, especially those that could take advtange of their new Ghost typing.
- Justified, Rattled, Purifying Salt lol
- Pokemon with Ghost-type coverage.

Less good stuff:
- Normal & fighting moves. Your opponent has access to an effectively Ghost-type version of their team.
- Trapping. Ghosts can't be trapped.

 

[Magic Mayhem Maiden]

Spooky Season

When a Pokemon faints, it is immediately revived to 100% HP and sent to the back of your party, however its primary typing now becomes Ghost.

Good stuff:
- Fast ghost & dark type Pokemon
- Hazards as there is more Pokemon to be hurt by em and revived mons will have less chance to be Flying, Steel or Poison increasing the effectiveness of some hazards.
- Some leads, especially those that could take advtange of their new Ghost typing.
- Justified, Rattled, Purifying Salt lol
- Pokemon with Ghost-type coverage.

Less good stuff:
- Normal & fighting moves. Your opponent has access to an effectively Ghost-type version of their team.
- Trapping. Ghosts can't be trapped.

How do you win?

 

[HiZo]

Spooky Season

When a Pokemon faints, it is immediately revived to 100% HP and sent to the back of your party, however its primary typing now becomes Ghost.

Good stuff:
- Fast ghost & dark type Pokemon
- Hazards as there is more Pokemon to be hurt by em and revived mons will have less chance to be Flying, Steel or Poison increasing the effectiveness of some hazards.
- Some leads, especially those that could take advtange of their new Ghost typing.
- Justified, Rattled, Purifying Salt lol
- Pokemon with Ghost-type coverage.

Less good stuff:
- Normal & fighting moves. Your opponent has access to an effectively Ghost-type version of their team.
- Trapping. Ghosts can't be trapped.

Speaking from experience, having Pokemon die multiple times in one game can end up being excruciatingly unfun. Be prepared for Stall lasting 700 turns.

 

[Yveltal for PU]

How do you win?

Forgot to include that the revive only happens once.

Speaking from experience, having Pokemon die multiple times in one game can end up being excruciatingly unfun. Be prepared for Stall lasting 700 turns.

On the flipside you now gotta take out wallbreakers twice & there is much more shared weaknesses so there's that

 

[Lectrys]

Spooky Season

When a Pokemon faints, it is immediately revived to 100% HP and sent to the back of your party, however its primary typing now becomes Ghost.

Good stuff:
- Fast ghost & dark type Pokemon
- Hazards as there is more Pokemon to be hurt by em and revived mons will have less chance to be Flying, Steel or Poison increasing the effectiveness of some hazards.
- Some leads, especially those that could take advtange of their new Ghost typing.
- Justified, Rattled, Purifying Salt lol
- Pokemon with Ghost-type coverage.

Less good stuff:
- Normal & fighting moves. Your opponent has access to an effectively Ghost-type version of their team.
- Trapping. Ghosts can't be trapped.

If Revival Blessing is used on a fainted newly-Ghost (say, Ghost/Steel Corviknight that's been KOed twice at this point), does it get revived as a Ghost or the regular version?

May as well put Kingambit in the "Good stuff" section - Supreme Overlord counts raw KOes, and its counter doesn't go down as mons get revived, so Kingambit can now max out on Supreme Overlord with more active teammates instead of going it solo with a 1.5x multiplier.

 

[3417gekko]

Spooky Season

When a Pokemon faints, it is immediately revived to 100% HP and sent to the back of your party, however its primary typing now becomes Ghost.

Good stuff:
- Fast ghost & dark type Pokemon
- Hazards as there is more Pokemon to be hurt by em and revived mons will have less chance to be Flying, Steel or Poison increasing the effectiveness of some hazards.
- Some leads, especially those that could take advtange of their new Ghost typing.
- Justified, Rattled, Purifying Salt lol
- Pokemon with Ghost-type coverage.

Less good stuff:
- Normal & fighting moves. Your opponent has access to an effectively Ghost-type version of their team.
- Trapping. Ghosts can't be trapped.

If a pokemon uses a self-fainting move, like memento, or faints due to recoil or other non-opponent factors, do they still revive?
And, if a mon has a status, is it removed when they revive, like with Revival Blessing?.

Also, what's to stop a mon from fainting and immediately switching back in, during the call to replace your fainted mon? Is that possibility part of the intended mechanics or would you put something in place that would stop it. I could see merit to both.

 

[Catzzadilla]

Allright, time to polish one of my submissions before submitting it.


Tera Sushi (inspired by conveyor belt sushi)

Metagame premise:

Every turn, the tera type your pokémon can tera into is swapped for the next one in (english) alphabetical order. This alphabetical list is referred to as the tera wheel. Every pokémon can tera once per switch-in, with no tera limit per battle. The tera type you start with is determined by the lead pokémon’s tera type (Tera preview is enabled). After battle begins, all of your pokémon share the same tera wheel (so if for example you see bug coming up and you want to tera bug your Roaring Moon, you can try to play for the opportunity to have it on the field on that turn so you can tera bug). Terastallization wears off after switching out (so when you switch back in, you’ll have your regular type again).

In addition, after terastallizing into a type, it will be taken off the wheel. This ensures that you cannot spam tera types to resist your attackers, or else you might lose a tera type you really wanted on another pokémon. Terastallizing is still a very strong option, and it is more present than ever, but the opportunity to tera is not always as optimal as in regular play.

Potential bans and threats:

Phazing Moves and Red Card might warrant a suspect, being able to forcefully end an opponent's terastallization is a big move, but one that I welcome as Tera is very present and important in this meta.

Revelation Dance and Tera Blast are great coverage moves, but in the case of tera blast, require the use of one terastallization in order to change it into a physical move (if using it on a physical attacker).

tera water and tera steel are two great defensive tera types. Salt Cure can easily threaten those who seek to abuse them.

As long as their target doesnt switch into an immunity, tinted lens wearers can deal consistent damage thanks to not very effective damage being doubled.

Terastallizing before switching out with regenerator sounds defensively strong at first, but burns through your tera wheel quickly. This can also apply to pivots like Dragapult or Pelipper who want to resist a Sucker Punch or Electric move before U-turning.

Adaptability is about to go crazy with Tera Blast.

some useful tera types that come to mind:

Dark prevents Prankster from affecting you and makes you immune to psychic
Dragon resists common elemental types in grass, fire, water and electric
Electric only has one weakness
Fairy has very useful resistances and is immune to dragon
Fire makes you immune to getting burned
Ghost gives you 2 immunities and prevents you from being trapped
Grass makes you immune to powder moves and leech seed
Ground makes you immune to electric while also resisting poison and rock. A boon for flying types, but be wary of ice!
Ice, while being frail as a type, still has its defense boosted in snow, and is a great offensive type
Normal also has only one weakness, but also boasts one immunity
Poison prevents you from being (badly) poisoned by anything that isn't named Salazzle or Glimmora
Rock boosts your special defense in a sandstorm and could potentially swap your weaknesses for resistances depending on the pokémon
Steel is arguably the best defensive typing in the game and is immune to poison status and moves
Water has only 2 weaknesses and is still great offensively.

Questions for the community:

Should there be a way to see the type order or would it be clear after enough games / after enough time on showdown?
What about the opponent's current tera type option?

Do you think OU mons that were banned for their synergy with tera would be balanced in here? Or do you think the access of more tera options will make them more powerful than before?

Which other types do you think would be useful to keep in mind when playing?

 

[TeaThymeLine]

Allright, time to polish one of my submissions before submitting it.


Tera Sushi (inspired by conveyor belt sushi)

Metagame premise:

Every turn, the tera type your pokémon can tera into is swapped for the next one in (english) alphabetical order. This alphabetical list is referred to as the tera wheel. Every pokémon can tera once per switch-in, with no tera limit per battle. The tera type you start with is determined by the lead pokémon’s tera type (Tera preview is enabled). After battle begins, all of your pokémon share the same tera wheel (so if for example you see bug coming up and you want to tera bug your Roaring Moon, you can try to play for the opportunity to have it on the field on that turn so you can tera bug). Terastallization wears off after switching out (so when you switch back in, you’ll have your regular type again).

In addition, after terastallizing into a type, it will be taken off the wheel.

I quite like your OM suggestion, but I can't help thinking it would essentially lead into "hit-and-run" strategies. Not that I mind, but one should expect Protect spamming and Pivot moves, in games that could end in 50/60 turns, but in reality last over 100.

 

[FakeFan0]

Limit Break​

Pokemon deal and take more or less damage based on the number of moveslots they use!
Some Pokemon really only want to click one move. Or, they only want to click one move after setting up. Introducing Limit Break, where soft checks don't exist because you blow resists out of the water(in theory). Basically, the less moves you use, the more damage those moves do, but in turn, the more damage you take from opponents. This enables fast, strong Pokemon to be revenge killed effectively, and bulky mons still have a chance to shine. The damage modifiers would be as follows:

Moveslots	1(3 unused moveslots)	2(2 unused moveslots)	3(1 unused moveslot)	4(all moveslots used)
Damage Modifier	1.75x	1.5x(choice item boost)	1.25x(might change to 1.3)	0.75x

Bans: Terastal Clause, Choice Band, Choice Specs, Choice Scarf(?)
Tera and choice becs are banned for the overwhelming power they can offer, not unlike the reason tera was banned from BH. Choice items have the gorilla tactics problem, but I'm interested in seeing how balanced scarf would be, albeit certainly being a top tier item.
Big Winners/Threats:
Tinted Lens: Lokix and Braviaryh can either setup and then use unresisted attacks, or use two separate attacks, or one super strong attack. Venomoth only needs Quiver Dance and bug buzz as well.
Dragapult goes kinda crazy here with Dragon Darts and U-Turn/ddance, or raw power with special attacks.
Supreme Overlord gives Kingambit an additional 10-50% boost to attacks, after a Swords Dance that sucker punch will be sure to punish any all-attack mons
Priority: First Impression, Sucker Punch, and Extreme Speed are incredibly potent moves, especially when paired with only one other attack(giving a choice boost, and alternative options). They may be bannable, or at least their abusers might.
Full Trick Room teams may actually be viable too, as the typical low opportunity cost changes, as you can use even more powerful moves to almost guarantee OHKOs with stuff like Ursaluna and uhhh...Hatterene? Honestly probably just spam funny cocaine bear with funny guts facade move. Probably better TR abusers with DLC(like Vikavolt which is confirmed yippee) but it still may be viable with just Luna.
Only pure stall teams don't benefit from this meta, Pokemon that want to will still probably be able to take hits and use recovery moves/abils. However, I feel that type immunities and abilities granting immunities will be sought after in such an offensive metagame as this.
Questions for the Community:
Is there a better name for this, or is it fine as is with a name sure to draw Final Fantasy fans and/or developers to it?
Is choice scarf too broken for such a meta?
Should the 3 move boost be changed to 1.3x, or lowered to an even lesser boost, like 1.1x?
Does this sound fun to play, or just really forceful to pick meta mons and lose if you do anything else?
Is this innovative, or has a similar idea came up in the past that I wasn't aware of?
Really happy with this idea, so please feel free to give your feedback on how this could be balanced more.

 

[TeaThymeLine]

Limit Break​

Pokemon deal and take more or less damage based on the number of moveslots they use!
Some Pokemon really only want to click one move. Or, they only want to click one move after setting up. Introducing Limit Break, where soft checks don't exist because you blow resists out of the water(in theory). Basically, the less moves you use, the more damage those moves do, but in turn, the more damage you take from opponents. This enables fast, strong Pokemon to be revenge killed effectively, and bulky mons still have a chance to shine. The damage modifiers would be as follows:

Moveslots	1(3 unused moveslots)	2(2 unused moveslots)	3(1 unused moveslot)	4(all moveslots used)
Damage Modifier	1.75x	1.5x(choice item boost)	1.25x(might change to 1.3)	0.75x

Bans: Terastal Clause, Choice Band, Choice Specs, Choice Scarf(?)
Tera and choice becs are banned for the overwhelming power they can offer, not unlike the reason tera was banned from BH. Choice items have the gorilla tactics problem, but I'm interested in seeing how balanced scarf would be, albeit certainly being a top tier item.
Big Winners/Threats:
Tinted Lens: Lokix and Braviaryh can either setup and then use unresisted attacks, or use two separate attacks, or one super strong attack. Venomoth only needs Quiver Dance and bug buzz as well.
Dragapult goes kinda crazy here with Dragon Darts and U-Turn/ddance, or raw power with special attacks.
Supreme Overlord gives Kingambit an additional 10-50% boost to attacks, after a Swords Dance that sucker punch will be sure to punish any all-attack mons
Priority: First Impression, Sucker Punch, and Extreme Speed are incredibly potent moves, especially when paired with only one other attack(giving a choice boost, and alternative options). They may be bannable, or at least their abusers might.
Full Trick Room teams may actually be viable too, as the typical low opportunity cost changes, as you can use even more powerful moves to almost guarantee OHKOs with stuff like Ursaluna and uhhh...Hatterene? Honestly probably just spam funny cocaine bear with funny guts facade move. Probably better TR abusers with DLC(like Vikavolt which is confirmed yippee) but it still may be viable with just Luna.
Only pure stall teams don't benefit from this meta, Pokemon that want to will still probably be able to take hits and use recovery moves/abils. However, I feel that type immunities and abilities granting immunities will be sought after in such an offensive metagame as this.
Questions for the Community:
Is there a better name for this, or is it fine as is with a name sure to draw Final Fantasy fans and/or developers to it?
Is choice scarf too broken for such a meta?
Should the 3 move boost be changed to 1.3x, or lowered to an even lesser boost, like 1.1x?
Does this sound fun to play, or just really forceful to pick meta mons and lose if you do anything else?
Is this innovative, or has a similar idea came up in the past that I wasn't aware of?
Really happy with this idea, so please feel free to give your feedback on how this could be balanced more.

Look page 25 of this forum : I made a similar suggestion, called "Variety Versus Power". Sorry.

 

[3417gekko]

Limit Break​

Pokemon deal and take more or less damage based on the number of moveslots they use!
Some Pokemon really only want to click one move. Or, they only want to click one move after setting up. Introducing Limit Break, where soft checks don't exist because you blow resists out of the water(in theory). Basically, the less moves you use, the more damage those moves do, but in turn, the more damage you take from opponents. This enables fast, strong Pokemon to be revenge killed effectively, and bulky mons still have a chance to shine. The damage modifiers would be as follows:

Moveslots	1(3 unused moveslots)	2(2 unused moveslots)	3(1 unused moveslot)	4(all moveslots used)
Damage Modifier	1.75x	1.5x(choice item boost)	1.25x(might change to 1.3)	0.75x

Bans: Terastal Clause, Choice Band, Choice Specs, Choice Scarf(?)
Tera and choice becs are banned for the overwhelming power they can offer, not unlike the reason tera was banned from BH. Choice items have the gorilla tactics problem, but I'm interested in seeing how balanced scarf would be, albeit certainly being a top tier item.
Big Winners/Threats:
Tinted Lens: Lokix and Braviaryh can either setup and then use unresisted attacks, or use two separate attacks, or one super strong attack. Venomoth only needs Quiver Dance and bug buzz as well.
Dragapult goes kinda crazy here with Dragon Darts and U-Turn/ddance, or raw power with special attacks.
Supreme Overlord gives Kingambit an additional 10-50% boost to attacks, after a Swords Dance that sucker punch will be sure to punish any all-attack mons
Priority: First Impression, Sucker Punch, and Extreme Speed are incredibly potent moves, especially when paired with only one other attack(giving a choice boost, and alternative options). They may be bannable, or at least their abusers might.
Full Trick Room teams may actually be viable too, as the typical low opportunity cost changes, as you can use even more powerful moves to almost guarantee OHKOs with stuff like Ursaluna and uhhh...Hatterene? Honestly probably just spam funny cocaine bear with funny guts facade move. Probably better TR abusers with DLC(like Vikavolt which is confirmed yippee) but it still may be viable with just Luna.
Only pure stall teams don't benefit from this meta, Pokemon that want to will still probably be able to take hits and use recovery moves/abils. However, I feel that type immunities and abilities granting immunities will be sought after in such an offensive metagame as this.
Questions for the Community:
Is there a better name for this, or is it fine as is with a name sure to draw Final Fantasy fans and/or developers to it?
Is choice scarf too broken for such a meta?
Should the 3 move boost be changed to 1.3x, or lowered to an even lesser boost, like 1.1x?
Does this sound fun to play, or just really forceful to pick meta mons and lose if you do anything else?
Is this innovative, or has a similar idea came up in the past that I wasn't aware of?
Really happy with this idea, so please feel free to give your feedback on how this could be balanced more.

I think this kinda gimmick still runs into the same problems TeaThymeLime's version did where it encourages a really linear gameplan the higher-ups were skeptical of having any real staying power.

 

[Catzzadilla]

I quite like your OM suggestion, but I can't help thinking it would essentially lead into "hit-and-run" strategies. Not that I mind, but one should expect Protect spamming and Pivot moves, in games that could end in 50/60 turns, but in reality last over 100.

Been thinking about this for a good while, and I have initially had some bad ideas to help prevent protect or pivot stalling:

• Banning or limiting Protect
• Unbanning arena trap and shadow tag
• Implementing a "pivot recoil" mod where using a pivot move up to 2 turns after a teammate has used one will cause you to lose 50% of your hp

But in the end I think that it shouldnt matter because that would ultimately be a losing strategy. For one, why would you stall? To get a certain Tera Type, right? The bad news for you is that there are ways to trap you so you can't switch out to your desired tera user (such as block, mean look, spirit shackle, etc.), and also ways to force out your Pokémon: whirlwind, dragon tail, circle throw, roar... If your entire team is built upon one or two Pokémon terastallyzing into a certain type exclusively, your entire team would fall apart the moment that Pokémon gets phazed out. Otherwise, it would be no different than facing Stall in regular play: people are free to protect and U-turn there as well. The only thing you'd accomplish would be wasting slots on your tera wheel. or giving your opponent time to set up and sweep.

However, if that does actually become a lasting problem with no counterplay, we can just limit or ban pivot moves. For Protect, there are ways to counter/bypass it (feint, taunt, encore, phantom force, ) but if worse comes to worse I can ban it too.

 

[Route2Trainer]

If this has been proposed and denied before, my fault, but

STAT PASS
Pokemon pass all of their base stats to the next Pokemon in team order (6 being passed to 1)
​

BANS:
Pure Power, Huge Power, Ice Scales, Fur Coat, Slaking, Regigigas, Shedinja
Enamorus and Numel might get banned for their abilities being able to be applied to different stat blocks, but as of now I'm not too sure.
Eviolite may also ruin some NFE's balance due to fully evolved stat blocks being passed, Pikachu with Light Ball in the same vein.

Winners and Threats:
Corviknight: can apply it's good movepool and typing to things like a Garganacl or Toxapex stat block to have devastating body presses.
Dragapult, maybe: can gain some use of it's special moves by getting passed by Gengar or Glimmora (only special attackers off the top of my head), but has to give up it's amazing speed tier.
Glimmora: Can get passed by bulkier Pokemon to live more hits and to set more Toxic Debris, and can pass an amazing 130 Special attack to some other pokemon, allowing a team to pass off stats stronger.
Spidops: No longer tethered to its awful stats, but has to give them to some other poor Pokemon. A Risk / Reward type deal.

Questions for the Community:
Is this concept unique enough from other stat changing metal to warrant it's own OM? It seems like a really obvious idea, and might have been s suggested before.

Is the name fitting? I'm not a very creative person, so feedback on stuff like this is very appreciated.

 

[3417gekko]

If this has been proposed and denied before, my fault, but

STAT PASS
Pokemon pass all of their base stats to the next Pokemon in team order (6 being passed to 1)
​

BANS:
Pure Power, Huge Power, Ice Scales, Fur Coat, Slaking, Regigigas, Shedinja
Enamorus and Numel might get banned for their abilities being able to be applied to different stat blocks, but as of now I'm not too sure.
Eviolite may also ruin some NFE's balance due to fully evolved stat blocks being passed, Pikachu with Light Ball in the same vein.

Winners and Threats:
Corviknight: can apply it's good movepool and typing to things like a Garganacl or Toxapex stat block to have devastating body presses.
Dragapult, maybe: can gain some use of it's special moves by getting passed by Gengar or Glimmora (only special attackers off the top of my head), but has to give up it's amazing speed tier.
Glimmora: Can get passed by bulkier Pokemon to live more hits and to set more Toxic Debris, and can pass an amazing 130 Special attack to some other pokemon, allowing a team to pass off stats stronger.
Spidops: No longer tethered to its awful stats, but has to give them to some other poor Pokemon. A Risk / Reward type deal.

Questions for the Community:
Is this concept unique enough from other stat changing metal to warrant it's own OM? It seems like a really obvious idea, and might have been s suggested before.

Is the name fitting? I'm not a very creative person, so feedback on stuff like this is very appreciated.

I'm pretty sure this is like, very close to one of the examples in the "don'ts" section. You'd have to spice it up a lot to get through, I think, assuming the higher-ups are down with another stat-manip-through-team-slot meta, even if you meaningfully differentiate it from GG, or Inheritance even.

 

[Route2Trainer]

I'm pretty sure this is like, very close to one of the examples in the "don'ts" section. You'd have to spice it up a lot to get through, I think, assuming the higher-ups are down with another stat-manip-through-team-slot meta, even if you meaningfully differentiate it from GG, or Inheritance even.

I mean, Protean Palace got through despite being a perfect example of "all Pokemon get X on top of their normal abilities" so this wouldn't be much of a stretch
And Godly Gift has 5 Pokemon pick from a determined stat block for only ONE stat. With SP the whole stat spread gets moves to the next Pokemon, and replaced with the previous. You would have to build your team around your Pokemon choices. Say you had a Tinkaton you wanted to give a Baxcalibur stat spread. You would have to deal with the Tinkaton stat spread floating around your team somewhere. You would also have to figure out what to do with the leftover Baxcalibur.

 

[TeaThymeLine]

Tired of only getting 20

from swimmers' butt hole, while making your journey in this huge world ? Well, here and now you can easily fill your pikawallet and show your economic skills, introducing :

Brawl Business
​

Metagame Premise : 6v6 Single Battle. All offensive moves have Pay Day effect added to theirs, and the one who gathers the most at the end wins.

Features :

1) The Pay Day effect happens for each hit, but doesn't work with clones.
2) Both players keep their money, even if one of them has all its Pokémon fainted ;
3) Doom desire and Future Sight don't make .

Clauses :

Endless Battle Clause ;
Evasion Clause ;
Pokédollar Clause : both players amount is shown on screen ;
Sleep Clause : limit to one foe put to sleep.

Unban :

Moves : OHKO moves, Last Respects.

Bans :

Abilities : Arena Trap, Moody, Sand Veil, Shadow Tag, Snow Cloack, Speed Boost ;
Items : Amulet Coin, Loaded Dice, Luck Incense ;
Pokémons : Arceus (all forms), Calyrex-Ice, Calyrex-Shadow, Chi-Yu, Chien-Pao, Dialga (both forms), Dragapult, Ethernatus, Flutter Mane, Giratina (both forms), Groudon, Hoopa-Unbound, Iron Bundle, Koraidon, Kyogre, Landorus, Magearna (both forms), Mewtwo, Miraidon, Palafin (both forms), Palkia (both forms), Rayquaza, Spectrier, Urshifu, Urshifu-Rapid-Strike, Volcarona, Zacian (both forms), Zamazenta (both forms).
Moves : Revival Blessing, Shed Tail.

Watchlist :

Item : King's Rock ;
Moves : Beat Up, Fake Out, Happy Hour, Population Bomb ;
Pokémons : Cloyster, Dragapult.

Q&A :

Q1 : What happens when both players have max (99 999 ) ?
A2 : The win is determined the classic way.

Q1 : What happens when both players have same amount and have all their pokémons fainted ?
A2 : Same as Q1 (as a reminder, recoil damages aren't decisive when it comes to using suicide moves).

Q3 : Would Pay Day double amount ?
A3+N : No, the Pay Day effect won't stack up so it would work as usual. Note : Same goes for Make It Rain.

 

[3417gekko]

Tired to only get 20 View attachment 549336 from swimmers' butt hole, while making your journey in this huge world ? Well, here and now you can easily fill your pikawallet and show your economic skills, introducing :

Brawl Business
​

Metagame Premise : 6v6 Battle. All offensive moves have Pay Day effect added to theirs, and the one who gathers the most View attachment 549336 at the end wins.

Features :

1) The Pay Day effect happens for each hit. (I would like some feedbacks about this)
2) Both players keep their money, even if one of them has all its Pokémon fainted ;
3) Doom desire and Future Sight don't make View attachment 549336.

Clauses :

Endless Battle Clause ;
Evasion Clause ;
Pokédollar Clause : both players View attachment 549336 amount is shown on screen ;
Sleep Clause : limit to one foe put to sleep.

Unban :

Moves : OHKO moves.

Bans :

Abilities : Arena Trap, Moody, Sand Veil, Shadow Tag, Snow Cloack, Speed Boost ;
Items : Amulet Coin, Loaded Dice, Luck Incense ;
Pokémons : Arceus (all forms), Calyrex-Ice, Calyrex-Shadow, Chi-Yu, Chien-Pao, Dialga (both forms), Dragapult, Ethernatus, Flutter Mane, Giratina (both forms), Groudon, Hoopa-Unbound, Iron Bundle, Koraidon, Kyogre, Landorus, Magearna (both forms), Mewtwo, Miraidon, Palafin (both forms), Palkia (both forms), Pyrax, Rayquaza, Spectrier, Urshifu, Urshifu-Rapid-Strike, Zacian (both forms), Zamazenta (both forms).

Watchlist :

Moves : Happy Hour, Population Bomb.

Q&A :

Q1 : What happens when both players have max View attachment 549336 (99 999 View attachment 549336) ?
A2 : The win is determined the classic way.

Q1 : What happens when both players have same View attachment 549336 amount and have all their pokémons fainted ?
A2 : Same as Q1 (as a reminder, recoil damages aren't decisive when it comes to using suicide moves).

Q3 : Would Pay Day double View attachment 549336 amount ?
A3 : No, the Pay Day effect won't stack up so it would work as usual.

This sounds really funny honestly. If a move like 1hp false swipe connects but doesn't do any damage, does it still make money? This might be a meta optimized for frailty to prevent the opponent using free turns to farm and i find that kinda interesting.

 

[Yveltal for PU]

This sounds really funny honestly. If a move like 1hp false swipe connects but doesn't do any damage, does it still make money? This might be a meta optimized for frailty to prevent the opponent using free turns to farm and i find that kinda interesting.

scarf explosion strong

 

[TeaThymeLine]

This sounds really funny honestly. If a move like 1hp false swipe connects but doesn't do any damage, does it still make money? This might be a meta optimized for frailty to prevent the opponent using free turns to farm and i find that kinda interesting.

Now that you mention it, and judging from the features, yes, false swap does make money even when the opponent has 1 HP left. Should I include False Swipe in bans ?