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Project Metagame Workshop

Everyone is equal
Metagame premise: Priority is removed. Anything goes is the template but with Ubers’ clauses so miraidon and calyrex-shadow are allowed. Queenly majesty works like supreme overlord. Dazzling works like mirror armor. Prankster works like illusion. Armor tail works like tinted lens. Gale wings works like aerilate. Triage works like regenerator
Potential bans and threats: Trick room becomes way stronger, being one of few counters to itself.
Questions for the community: What would be a better name for everyone is equal and does the name express the premise well enough? What did I miss that would be a potential threat/ban?
 
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Minotaur08 said:
Everyone is equal
Metagame premise: Prioroty is removed. Anything goes is the template but with Ubers’ clauses so miraidon and calyrex-shadow are allowed.
Potential bans and threats: Klefki,meowstic-male and whimsicott all have access to trick room prankster.
Questions for the community: What would be a better name for everyone is equal and does the name express the premise well enough? What did I miss that would be a potential threat/ban?
Click to expand...
Wouldn't prankster do nothing because priority is removed?
 
I thought about priority moves. But you are right. I guess I will make prankster do another thing because I do not want an ability to do nothing.
 
Minotaur08 said:
Everyone is equal
Metagame premise: Prioroty is removed. Anything goes is the template but with Ubers’ clauses so miraidon and calyrex-shadow are allowed. Queenly majesty works like supreme overlord. Dazzling works like mirror armor. Prankster works like illusion. Armor tail now works like tinted lens. Gale wings works like aerilate. Triage works like regenerator
Potential bans and threats: Trick room becomes way stronger, being one of few counters to itself.
Questions for the community: What would be a better name for everyone is equal and does the name express the premise well enough? What did I miss that would be a potential threat/ban?
Click to expand...
How exactly is one supposed to eliminate sweepers now? I expect Whirlwind, Roar, Dragon Tail, and Circle Throw all to be banned since they now have no priority and can be spammed with hazard stack and deny the opponent from ever attacking, and priority no longer exists to potentially revenge kill the setup sweepers. The only options left would be to use Haze (uncommon and Tauntable) or Ditto.
 
Unaware, counter/mirror coat/metal burst with sturdy/focus sash/focus band, clear smog with focus sash/focus band, and like you said all the phasing moves can work (with focus sash/focus band/sturdy/unaware (Skledirge is the only unaware mon with a phasing move, roar )) Also whirlwind has wind rider as a counter, roar with soundproof, dragon tail with fairy types, circle throw with ghost types, and heavy duty boots exists so at least at the start of the meta they will not be banned.
 
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Minotaur08 said:
Everyone is equal
Metagame premise: Priority is removed. Anything goes is the template but with Ubers’ clauses so miraidon and calyrex-shadow are allowed. Queenly majesty works like supreme overlord. Dazzling works like mirror armor. Prankster works like illusion. Armor tail works like tinted lens. Gale wings works like aerilate. Triage works like regenerator
Potential bans and threats: Trick room becomes way stronger, being one of few counters to itself.
Questions for the community: What would be a better name for everyone is equal and does the name express the premise well enough? What did I miss that would be a potential threat/ban?
Click to expand...
I like the idea, although I think you could make a more simple one. The problem with making priority equalized to zero for all abilities, moves and items (if you consider the Custap Berry) is that you destroy the useful aspect of some of them, and so have to redefine each of them (like you did for Queenly Majesty, Dazzling, and so on for the abilities you mentionned). OMs consist of applying only one change to a mechanic, so if I respect the first phrase in your premise, the abilities which works because of priority now should do nothing, unless you give in a Rules or Q&A part the justifications about changing them. You could just turn moves only into zero priority, for starters, and it would be also fine :blobthumbsup:
 
Minotaur08 said:
What do you think would work better making the priority abilities do nothing or do different things? (Same with priority moves and items)
Click to expand...
Arbitrarily changing how things work would make this a pet mod, not an OM. If your want it to be an OM, you need one consistent rule like "all moves have priority 0" (which effectively makes Prankster/Dazzling/etc useless, although Stall and Custap Berry could potentially still work; according to their official descriptions they change order within the priority bracket rather than changing priority, but I think it's implemented as a fractional increase or decrease in priority).
However, this premise doesn't really add anything to the game (practically speaking, it's about the same as banning Prankster and every move with nonzero priority, since moves that normally have positive priority wouldn't be worth using and most moves that normally have negative priority would be banworthy), not to mention the balance concerns InkyDarkBird brought up, so I doubt it would be approved.
 
Minotaur08 said:
What do you think would work better making the priority abilities do nothing or do different things? (Same with priority moves and items)
Click to expand...
Well, anything is fine as long as you thought it through and didn't put some subjectivity. What I meant to say is that if you can explain with facts why items, moves or abilities now behave like this or that while changing a mechanic than the entire metagame looks consistent ; but if not, than better is to limit the application to one specific thing (so only nullify moves priority for example).

If you absolutely plan on making all priority disappear while keeping viability of priority abilities, I think that the best way would be to slightly adjust them, without implying they work like another : Armor Tail, Dazzling or Queenly Majesty would prevent Pokemon faster than the user to attack, Prankster would still make Pokemon use statut moves first but would fail against Dark-type ones, Gale Wings would still make flying-type moves faster as long as the user is at max HP ; and Triage would also make Comfey using its healing moves first. It might go too far at first glance, but considering that it only concerns a few Pokemon, and the fact that your rules apply in a "claused" Anything Goes format, these abilities could be strong without being banned (I'm not familiar with how suspect tests are done though, so I can't tell much).

If not, make them lose their utility and do nothing, so that it complies with the premise, but at the cost of losing viability (which would be a shame).

Like I wrote in my previous post, just making moves having zero priority is fine, maybe even more suitable.
 

Customized Entry Hazards (CEH)​

Premise :​

Pokemon can turn any moves into their own customized entry hazards.

Rules :​

Players fight in a Gen9 6v6 Single battle, under Ubers format's clauses and banlists. Any move in the first moveslot now become entry hazards.

Customized Entry Hazards (or CEH) damages are calculated following Gen9 base formula, but simplified ▼
Damages_formula_G9.png

A, D, Targets, PB, Weather, GlaiveRush, Critical, random, STAB, Burn, other, ZMove and TeraShield equal 1 ; while Level becomes the target's level ▼
Damages_formula_Halfzards.png


Their effects (secondary effects included) rate become 100% (since they don't check accuracy/evasion stats) but can be bypassed by abilities depending on their type (Levitate ignores Ground-type CEH, Flash Fire boosts Fire-type moves while ignoring Fire-type CEH, etc.) ; and avoided thanks to natural immunities (Fire-type immune to burn, Grass-type immune to Leech Seed and spores, Normal-type immune to Ghost-type damages, etc.).

Whichever category a move is from, effects always affect the original target. For example, Trailblaze as CEH causes damages to the opponent while increasing the user's (and its teammates) Speed by 1.

Lastly, they can only be put once, are stackable with Stealth Rocks, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Sticky Web and other CEH, can be removed with Court Change, Defog, Mortal Spin, Rapid Spin or Tidy Up ; but not with type similarities (except for Toxic Spikes which can still be removed by Poison-type Pokemon). Magic Bounce also sends them back.

Clauses :​

  • Endless Battle Clause: Players cannot intentionally prevent an opponent from being able to end the game without forfeiting.
  • Evasion Clause: A Pokemon may not have either Double Team or Minimize in its moveset.
  • OHKO Clause: A Pokemon may not have the moves Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill, or Sheer Cold in its moveset.
  • Sleep Clause: If a player has already put a Pokemon on his/her opponent's side to sleep and it is still sleeping, another one can't be put to sleep.
  • Species Clause: A player cannot have two Pokemon with the same National Pokedex number on a team.

Bans :​

Assist
Attract
Belly Drum
Bind
Blizzard
Circle Throw
Clamp
Clangourous Soul
Copycat
Destiny Bond
Destruction
Dire Claw
Doodle
Dragon Tail
Dragon Dance
Entrainment
Explosion
Fillet Away
Final Gambit
Flip Turn
Fire Spin
Freeze-Dry
Freeze Shock
Freezing Glare
Grudge
Ice Beam
Knock Off
Infestation
Light Screen
Magma Storm
Metronome
Milk Drink
Moonlight
Morning Sun
No Retreat
Parting Shot
Power Trip
Quiver Dance
Rage Fist
Recover
Recycle,
Reflect
Reflect Type
Rest
Roar
Salt Cure
Sand Tomb
Shell Smash
Skill Swap
Slack Off
Stored Power
Substitute
Switcheroo
Synthesis
Tail Glow
Taunt
Thief
Tri Attack
Trick
U-Turn
Victory Dance
Volt Switch
Whirlpool
Whirlwind
Wish
Wrap
King's Rock
Razor Fang
Baton Pass
Last Respects
Calyrex-Shadow
Miraidon

Other Potential Bans & Threats :​

Especially convenient in this metagame, kill two birds with one stone because users can put their CEH while preventing opponents to switch, and so to call out their defoggers/spinners.
Being immune to indirect damages or main status invalidate a lot of entry hazards, even the opponent team's first moveslots.
Aside from sending back statuts moves, it also turns one's desirable stat boosts into the opponent's (and vice-versa).
Coupled with stats boosts from specific CEH, this can easily lead to instant sweeps, even against Unaware users or Phazers
Dangerous, not for the same reasons though : respectively swapping hazard sides, and removing them while increasing Attack and Speed, they pressure teams that rely on pivoting, either causing constant hazards juggling or free boosts to the opponent's team.
Moves that increase their Base Power under terrain, weather or main statuts conditions may be hard to deal with, especially when they add up each others.
Same problem as previously, but with randomness
+2 boosts in offense are generally enough to give Pokemon advantage, whether in case of classic or revenge sweep. They have the potential to turn any Pokemon of a same team into Wallbreakers.
Cyclizar and Sceptile are pretty fast and safe, as long as they hold their Heavy-Duty Boots. If not secured by this item, or previously put Defog- or Rapid Spin-like CEH, than the move becomes risky.

Questions & Answers :​

  • Can I use Taunt to prevent opponents from using their CEH ? Yes, you can. What has to be understood is that CEH are "any category of moves turned into entry hazard moves", being into statut moves.
  • How do offensive moves with focus state work as CEH ? Focus Punch and Beak Blast will first give the user's side the focus state, then hurt the opponent that came on switch-in. This doesn't affect the produced damages, nor the user's accuracy.
  • Do every moves keep their effects upon becoming CEH ? No, all detrimental effects and multi-hits are removed, hence moves that cause rampage (Ice Ball, Outrage, Petal Dance, Raging Fury, Rollout, Thrash and Uproar) no longer force the user to repeat them, and keep their original base power ; recoil, charging (Meteor Beam, Solar Beam...) and post-move inactivity (Giga Impact, Hyper Beam) are ignored ; and multi-hits moves hit once only. Note : a few moves lose purpose when turned into CEH, such as Encore or Mimic.

Questions for the community :​

Can this be considered as an OM ? Is this simple and comprehensive enough ?
Is there anything else I should add in Q&A or elsewhere ?

Resources :​

none.
waiting for approval.
none yet.
 
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:terapagos: Too Much Tera Blast :terapagos:
​
Premise: The move in every Pokemon's first moveslot gains the properties of Tera Blast.

Rules: The format is played using SV OU as a base.

The type of the move is changed to the pokemon's tera type, and will be physical or special, determined in the same way as Tera Blast. The effects will always apply, even when the Pokemon is not terastallized. This is because if it only applied while terastallized, then no pokemon would gain the benefits. If the tera type is stellar, the move will gain 20 BP and will also lower the users Atk and SpA stats, however the user will not get STAB on it. The original effects of the move are retained, the effects are merely added on top. Pokemon that cannot change their tera type are forced to use the type they are stuck with.

Sets:

:sv/serperior:
Serperior @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Ability: Contrary
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Glare
- Giga Drain
- Dragon Pulse
Stellar Tera Blast added on to :serperior: Serperior gives it unresisted Hyper Beam that also gives it a 3 stage SpA boost. Giga Drain provides recovery, Dragon Pulse gives coverage, and Glare can spread para.

:sv/landorus-therian:
Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Earthquake
Physical Flying-type Sludge Bomb give :landorus-therian: Landorus decent Flying STAB and can spread poison on this basic scarf set.

:sv/regieleki:
Regieleki @ Focus Sash
Ability: Transistor
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Body Slam
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Rapid Spin
How could we talk about Tera Blast without talking about :regieleki: Regieleki? Special ice Body Slam is decent Bolt Beam coverage, even better than how Tera Blast was for it before the ban.

Clauses & Bans:

  • :koffing: OU Clauses
  • :terapagos: Tera Clause

:koffing: OU Bans

:koffing: OU Bans

:koffing: OU Bans

:spinda: I don't know

Questions I'd Imagine Being Asked:
  • How does Freeze Dry work? Freeze Dry will gain the effects of Tera Blast and will be super effective against water, regardless of which type it is.
  • How do abilities that change type work? Any type changes to the move will be applied after Tera Blast.
  • What about status moves? Any status moves will gain the effect but can't deal any damage and will be the same. Thunder Wave, as it factors type immunities, is affected, and Stellar teras will add the Stellar effect.
Questions for You:
  • Should you be able to tera? If so, should you be able to tera multiple times?
  • Is the name adequate?
 
My ability did the wrong thing
Metagame premise: Abilities now have the opposite effect. For example, rivalry: Boosts the power of the Pokémon's moves by 25% against targets of the opposite gender, and lowers it by 25% against targets of the same gender. Another example, weak armor: When the Pokémon takes damage from a physical move, its speed stat is lowered by 1 stage, but its defence stat is boosted by 2 stages.
Potential bans and threats: Multiscale because now when you are not at full health then moves do half damage same thing applies to sturdy that you would survive at 1 hp at any other health other than full health.
Questions for the community: What would be a better name for my ability did the wrong thing and does the name express the premise well enough? What did I miss that would be a potential threat/ban?
 
Minotaur08 said:
My ability did the wrong thing
Metagame premise: Abilities now have the opposite effect. For example, rivalry: Boosts the power of the Pokémon's moves by 25% against targets of the opposite gender, and lowers it by 25% against targets of the same gender. Another example, weak armor: When the Pokémon takes damage from a physical move, its speed stat is lowered by 1 stage, but its defence stat is boosted by 2 stages.
Potential bans and threats: Multiscale because now when you are not at full health then moves do half damage same thing applies to sturdy that you would survive at 1 hp at any other health other than full health.
Questions for the community: What would be a better name for my ability did the wrong thing and does the name express the premise well enough? What did I miss that would be a potential threat/ban?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure how well we can pull off this meta. For example, what's the opposite of Good as Gold?
  • This Pokemon is immune to non-status moves. (This is busted)
  • This Pokemon is not immune to status moves. (This is useless)
 
“The Pokémon is immune to status moves used by other Pokémon.” I think it would be “The Pokémon is immune to status moves used by itself.” So the moves endure, trick, substitute, sleep talk, rest, recover, protect, nasty plot, memento and arguebly light screen, reflect and sandstorm (because they affect the user) do nothing on ghouldengo now.
 
I’m bored. Somebody revive Scalemons.

Tl;dr: Everything gets equalized BSTs to 600, so minimal bans. In the past it was good LC mons that were banned, or dumb abilities (Abra, Gastly, Ninjask and so on.)

I suppose the biggest argument one could lobby against a Gen 9 revival would be Scalemons is another stat mod meta. While on the surface it’s similar compared to BnB, Tier Shift, 350 Cup, etc., it should still prove to be a vastly different meta than any of those.

anaconja already said on Discord that they would be happy to let someone else host.

Any takers? (I’d happily host but I’m at the 2 OM host limit.)
 
I’m intrigued by Scalemons for Gen 9 but we would absolutely have to have Ubers in this time. Banning everything already banned by OU to just buff <600 BST mons completely ignores an axis of Scalemons.
 
BandedBodyPress said:
I’m intrigued by Scalemons for Gen 9 but we would absolutely have to have Ubers in this time. Banning everything already banned by OU to just buff <600 BST mons completely ignores an axis of Scalemons.
Click to expand...
I agree on the fact that we would need Ubers mons in this tier. Also I’d be happy to host!
 
Less Is More
Metagame Premise: What if Pokémon got stronger the less options they were given? Specifically by leaving the item, ability, and some (but not all) move slots empty, the pokémon would get a stat boost, and the boost would be stacked for each empty slot. Or you can fill all slots and get no boost, it's your choice. This metagame would be based around OU
Potential bans and threats: Already strong offensive pokémon that have underwhelming/useless abilities would potentially require banning such as Darkrai and Kyurem, and depending on how the stat boost is handled even pokémon such as Iron Moth/Valiant and Raging Bolt may be too powerful. Others that are less powerful such as Iron Boulder, Keldeo, Manaphy, and Zarude would rise up in their place, or may compete alongside them. Defensive pokémon such as Corviknight, Great Tusk, and Iron Treads would also become better as their defensive capabilities would be improved, potentially enough to keep in check the previously mentioned potentially banworthy offensive pokémon.
Questions:
  1. Should the stat boost be a flat boost to all stats like in Tier Shift or a multiplicative boost to the highest stat like Protosynthesis/Quark Drive?
    1. If a flat boost, should HP be included or excluded?
    2. If a multiplicative boost, should the multipliers be additive or multiplicative? (i.e. if the boost was 1.3x would two boosts be 1.6x or 1.69x)
  2. Should the boosts be minor to elevate those with weaker options or should they be major and broadly metagame-defining?
  3. Should the non-Teal Ogerpon forms be allowed to leave their item slot empty or should they be forced to wear their masks?
 
Psychomaniac14 said:
Less Is More
Metagame Premise: What if Pokémon got stronger the less options they were given? Specifically by leaving the item, ability, and some (but not all) move slots empty, the pokémon would get a stat boost, and the boost would be stacked for each empty slot. Or you can fill all slots and get no boost, it's your choice. This metagame would be based around OU
Potential bans and threats: Already strong offensive pokémon that have underwhelming/useless abilities would potentially require banning such as Darkrai and Kyurem, and depending on how the stat boost is handled even pokémon such as Iron Moth/Valiant and Raging Bolt may be too powerful. Others that are less powerful such as Iron Boulder, Keldeo, Manaphy, and Zarude would rise up in their place, or may compete alongside them. Defensive pokémon such as Corviknight, Great Tusk, and Iron Treads would also become better as their defensive capabilities would be improved, potentially enough to keep in check the previously mentioned potentially banworthy offensive pokémon.
Questions:
  1. Should the stat boost be a flat boost to all stats like in Tier Shift or a multiplicative boost to the highest stat like Protosynthesis/Quark Drive?
    1. If a flat boost, should HP be included or excluded?
    2. If a multiplicative boost, should the multipliers be additive or multiplicative? (i.e. if the boost was 1.3x would two boosts be 1.6x or 1.69x)
  2. Should the boosts be minor to elevate those with weaker options or should they be major and broadly metagame-defining?
  3. Should the non-Teal Ogerpon forms be allowed to leave their item slot empty or should they be forced to wear their masks?
Click to expand...
I am greatly reminded of the Gen 7 OM Statattack (https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/statattack.3613153/), where a move can be replaced with a stat to raise it by one stage every time the mon hits the field a la Embody Aspect. This meta seems like a more generalized version of Statattack, so it can at least try to distinguish itself, but I suppose outright stat boosts on the highest stat are a third possibility...
 
[Gen 1/2] Doubles OU
Premise: A doubles format is created for these generations lacking one! For games designed without this in mind, many things change. For example, no move is a spread move, there is no speed control basically. And in Gen 1, Protect doesn't exist. Stats are maxed obviously, making the metagame more bulky.
Potential bans: Gen 1 standard Ubers(Mewtwo, Mew), and Gen 2 standard Ubers(Mewtwo, Mew, Ho-Oh, Lugia, Celebi), to make it more OU like.
Question: Yes, I am fully aware Doubles is not canon in gen 1/2.. but I'd like to see how they work there anyway.
 
hentenmon said:
[Gen 1/2] Doubles OU
Premise: A doubles format is created for these generations lacking one! For games designed without this in mind, many things change. For example, no move is a spread move, there is no speed control basically. And in Gen 1, Protect doesn't exist. Stats are maxed obviously, making the metagame more bulky.
Potential bans: Gen 1 standard Ubers(Mewtwo, Mew), and Gen 2 standard Ubers(Mewtwo, Mew, Ho-Oh, Lugia, Celebi), to make it more OU like.
Question: Yes, I am fully aware Doubles is not canon in gen 1/2.. but I'd like to see how they work there anyway.
Click to expand...
There are > commonly rejected ideas, including using previous generations mechanics ▼
1787352418568.png

I can't tell if that has to be taken into consideration or not, as you somehow want to add a Doubles variant into Gen1 (or Gen2) OU format, but I bet that would be a little bit too difficult to pull off either way. I believe there's been a OM in the past called Type Split, which adapts to the most recent Gen when playable. I know it's irrelevant, but I think your idea doesn't align well with the structure of OMs and should be proposed in PetMods.
 
Lectrys said:
I am greatly reminded of the Gen 7 OM Statattack (https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/statattack.3613153/), where a move can be replaced with a stat to raise it by one stage every time the mon hits the field a la Embody Aspect. This meta seems like a more generalized version of Statattack, so it can at least try to distinguish itself, but I suppose outright stat boosts on the highest stat are a third possibility...
Click to expand...
Truth be told I didn't know that OM existed when I posted my idea, and after some thinking about it I think boosting the highest stat rather than all stats would be a better idea to differentiate it from most current stat mod metas, but even with that I think that Less Is More would already distinguish itself from Statattack by:
  • Being a direct stat increase rather than a stat stage increase which, yes, makes it the same as every current stat mod meta, but if it works, don't fix it;
  • Being able to sacrifice more than one move slot for a further stat increase;
  • Being able to sacrifice a pokemon's item and/or ability for a stat increase, and;
  • Potentially being unable to increase the stat you want to increase.
Also, to clarify, at no point did I ever consider using stat stage increases. I personally feel that that would be far too large of an increase to allow filling every slot to be a viable strategy, which is something I would prefer, even if it's situational
 
 VETOmons

Metagame premise: You and your opponent bring 10 pokemon but only the first 6 can be seen in the team preview, both of you get to "veto" 3 members of the opponent's team that you can see and then you get to replace your vetoed pokemons with 3 of your mons not on the team preview. The rest of the battle would carry out normally with the 6v6 singles OU ruleset.

Potential bans and threats: More than one of the same weather setting ability/trick room user per team as the objective of this mode is to make a team that can synergize well no matter the circumstance. For example, If you bring a Torkoal to the team preview but have a Ninetails on the back you just forced the same outcome of a sun team and you won't have to adapt as much.


Questions for the community: Is the concept fun enough/interesting? I can see how creating 10 pokemons for a team could be a bit convoluted so I thought about a few alternatives such as making the hidden pokemon random for both sides, picking your opponent's hidden pokemons to replace yours instead and among a few others, but I've found a lot more flaws on these.
 
Raya said:
 VETOmons

Metagame premise: You and your opponent bring 10 pokemon but only the first 6 can be seen in the team preview, both of you get to "veto" 3 members of the opponent's team that you can see and then you get to replace your vetoed pokemons with 3 of your mons not on the team preview. The rest of the battle would carry out normally with the 6v6 singles OU ruleset.

Potential bans and threats: More than one of the same weather setting ability/trick room user per team as the objective of this mode is to make a team that can synergize well no matter the circumstance. For example, If you bring a Torkoal to the team preview but have a Ninetails on the back you just forced the same outcome of a sun team and you won't have to adapt as much.


Questions for the community: Is the concept fun enough/interesting? I can see how creating 10 pokemons for a team could be a bit convoluted so I thought about a few alternatives such as making the hidden pokemon random for both sides, picking your opponent's hidden pokemons to replace yours instead and among a few others, but I've found a lot more flaws on these.
Click to expand...
While interesting, from what I know and have been told from various users, adding a veto feature to team-preview requires major overhaul in coding / showdown's client-side features etc.

Expecting users to know about the Import Function to bring 10 pokemon is also a no, since OMs should in general be straightforward to get into for casual players.
 
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