Format Discussion Metronome Battle

i just do not like it because its bypasses a ban if it is allow then you may as well allow sturdy ninja from the start you should not be able to bypass bans
 
i just do not like it because its bypasses a ban if it is allow then you may as well allow sturdy ninja from the start you should not be able to bypass bans
Here's and even better question: what else uses Power of Alchemy? Its a very random ability that relies on you being able to 2v1 any matchup - which is easy.... at times. But say you consistently DO win with POA/"Sturdy Shedinja". Can you manage to make smth else bypass its ability combo ban? Then ban Power of Alchemy. But its INCONSISTENT. Its a gimmick, and unless you can show me proof that its NOT brettwhite3, it will remain a gimmick. With that being said, goodbye - and don't take this too personal
 

Celever

the bear becomes the ringleader
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
i just do not like it because its bypasses a ban if it is allow then you may as well allow sturdy ninja from the start you should not be able to bypass bans
For the record, the reason Power of Alchemy Shedinja is fine where Sturdy Shedinja isn't fine is because you have to invest your whole partner in order to set it up. It becomes a 2v1 for the Shedinja user which, when the Shedinja can die to a fair few moves (burn, Imprison, poison, hail, anything with recoil, sandstorm) isn't good odds for the Shedinja. Even more importantly, though, is that Metronome doesn't have infinite PP and Shedinja has to manage to take out 2 Pokémon in the amount of PP it has. Usually it doesn't manage to do that, so people who use the Power of Alchemy Shedinja thing are setting themselves up for failure and generally stop after a few battles.
 
Happy October! With just over a month left to the release of Scarlet and Violet, we are entering the last full month of [Gen 8] Metronome Battles before ringing in the new generation, so enjoy dynamax while it lasts. Let's get into the usage stats for September 2022.

The battle count slowly rises to 65834, at a leisurely pace.

https://www.smogon.com/stats/2022-09/gen8metronomebattle-1630.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2022-09/moveset/gen8metronomebattle-1630.txt

1630 Top 10 + last month positions: (I just realized I could have put sprites here to make this list look more interesting.)
#1: Mega Heracross (no change) :heracross-mega:
#2: Mega Venusaur (no change) :venusaur-mega:
#3: Necturna (#4) :necturna:
#4: Mega Sableye (#6) :sableye-mega:
#5: Blissey (#12) :blissey:
#6: Mega Camerupt (#16) :camerupt-mega:
#7: Dusclops (no change) :dusclops:
#8: Mew (#14) :mew:
#9: Mega Gengar (#10) :gengar-mega:
#10: Mega Ampharos (#5) :ampharos-mega:

There's a bit of a surprising shakeup going on with Blissey, Camerupt, and the prevalent Mew rising up from below to overtake positions within the top 10, while the megas hold strong. Other dark horses of the month include the classic Shaymin-Sky blazing a trail in #31 with 554 uses, going with Delta Stream/Aerilate to leverage its flying utility. Ursaluna stands tall in the top 20 at #19 with 1027 uses, and I also want to mention Plasmanta in #48 with 399 uses, which is a CAP mon I haven't heard much talk about, but apparently it can do well enough with just an Intrepid Sword and Weakness Policy.

In the end it looks like 2022 will continue to be the year of Heracross, but it's a closer competition for #1 than last month with 25.8% and 21.8% weighted usage respectively (15027 and 12901 raw). There's still one more full month of Gen 8 to go, though with no Gen 8 pokemon in the top 10 currently though Dragapult and Glastrier are close behind. What will the final snapshots of the meta look like, and will they remain competitive in the next generation of Metronome Battles with new challengers to face? Only time will tell, but to be honest I do think it's likely. It's already been a good few years and even tried and true mons like the humble ghosts Necturna and Dusclops are still in the game yet, though on the other hand in just this month you can see that there's always something shifting in the meta and always room for development, never settling.

Over in the moveset file, the top viability ceilings (highest GXE of someone that used a Pokemon) start from 80 this time around, tying Basculegion-Female (Lonely nature, highest weights on Download and Choice Band followed by Defiant and Normalium Z), Dusclops (classic Friend Guard bonk stall), Mega Gallade (raw power thorugh Intrepid Sword/Defiant, and various partners like Power Spot Corsola-Galar, Enamorus-Therian, Chromera, Dusclops), and Ursaluna (variety of abilities: Defiant, Simple, Sap Sipper, Intrepid Sword, and either the common Choice Band or Weakness Policy, partnered with Chromera, Enamorus-Therian, Gengar, Basculegion). I'll go through until we see all the mons from the top 10 and highlight some used sets along the way for a greater reflection on these last views of the meta.

Going down the list, at 79 we have Mew (Defiant/Competitive, Band/Specs), Enamorus-Therian (Specs/Weakness Policy with Competitive/Storm Drain/Intrepid Sword/Download), and Dragonite (mainly Magic Bounce and Weakness Policy with some Delta Stream). Chromera sits alone at 78 with a lot of potential choices taken (Bounce/Power Spot/Competitive/Simple/Magic Guard, and WP/Specs/Scarf/Normalium Z just looking at percentages above 10%). 77 has our Flower Veilers with Venusaur, Necturna, and Altaria, actually taking Aerilate and Magic Bounce primarily over Pixilate, with some Storm Drain in the mix.

Despite being the reigning champion of brute force, Heracross has only achieved a peak GXE of 76, along with other meta threats like the imposter Blissey, Zapdos running Galvanize, probably alongside the Tornadus-Therian going with the synergistic Delta Stream and Lum Berry. Finally, at 75 we round out the rest of the meta with Sableye and Ampharos, while at 74 Camerupt barely makes it in with the Analytic strategy mentioned earlier in the thread, along with a bunch of other high stat picks like Glastrier (Defiant/WP), Regirock (WP/Band with Desolate Land/Ice Scales/Contrary/Flame Body/Magic Bounce), Landorus-Therian (Aerilate/Intrepid Sword with Band), Marshadow (Intrepid Sword/Simple with WP/Band), Pajantom (Defiant/WP and Comatose/Band), Spectrier (usually Magic Bounce with Specs or Normalium Z, a questionable set of Grim Neigh + Eviolite, as well as Lightningrod to pair with the next mon), Gyarados (mostly a lightning rod of its own, but seems to use Intrepid Sword paired with Spectrier along with Band/Lum), and Zeraora going mostly Levitate and Galvanize with Specs, Magnet, and Band as its mixed item choices.

Overall there's a lot of variety that's managed to hit these high GXEs, and it goes to show that anything could succeed in some way, whether in the short term or with consistent time investment and perseverance, it all comes down to luck. Thanks for your reading.

EDIT: Some CAPs received some buffs/nerfs recently.
Miasmaw got a stat change, gaining 7 Speed, 20 Special Defence, and losing 27 Special Attack for a new spread of 85/135/60/88/105/99.
Venomicon-Prologue lost 20 Attack, going from 70 to 50.
Venomicon-Epilogue lost 1 SpA and 19 Speed, going from 63 to 62 SpA and 120 to 101 Speed.
Saharaja lost 8 Atk, 7 SpD, and 12 Speed, going from 120 to 112 Atk, 130 to 123 SpD, and 90 to 78 Speed.
Also the long lived Ally Switch + multiturn move targeting bug has been fixed.

EDIT 2:
We're pretty close to a new month so I will probably highlight these again next monthly post, but some interesting changes have been made.
Chromera's base type has changed from Dark/Poison to Dark/Normal. Overall I'd say this is a loss as it now has a 4x weakness to Fighting and is generally worse off in its resistances and weaknesses, but it still maintains its legendary base stats and Normal is one of the more decent STABs to have.

Rollout has been adjusted to be more accurate to the games and always hit its initial target in subsequent turns, so now there's no more RNG of deciding who to dynamax to block it. As an aside I've been grinding ladder again recently, and I've really appreciated dynamax again for giving you an extra turn of having a target up sometimes.
 
Last edited:
As of today, we are just 3 weeks away from the release of gen 9! To celebrate, I'm going to be emptying out my teambuilder to get most ideas I've had out here, so we can continue to come up with new ideas into Scarlet and Violet. I will be editing this post once per day with a new team until release. If you have any really cool teams you haven't seen anyone else use, you can PM me on smogon, and I might throw it in.

10/28 Poison Touch

:glastrier: :heracross-mega:

This is a really fun team that I have been experimenting with for a while now. The basis is that the majority of physical attacks make contact, so by using an extremely physically-offensive team, you greatly increase your odds to just flat out kill or inflict poison as well. I chose to run a Glastrier over another Mega-Heracross so that I would be able to Dynamax, increasing the damage my opponents take from poison. However, running dual Heracross is still plenty viable. I've found from testing that I get a poison in most matches, and those that I don't are usually because I just win before I get the chance to poison.

10/29 Normalize

:dhelmise: :venusaur-mega:

I had this idea to be able to use normalize but not instantly lose to ghost and rock types. Flower Veil Dhelmise is a beast offensively, and this Venusaur will be hitting everything for neutral damage as long as they aren't ghost or rock. If they are, you can just mega, and now you have Thick Fat, which is very much a viable ability.

10/30 Enamorus-Therian

:enamorus-therian: :enamorus-therian:

This mon is broken. Above average stats, and a very solid typing, make it easy to build with, and easy to win with. This team is a pretty basic Delta Stream, with Aerilate on the other to help the Mega-Heracross and Flower Veil matchups. You can mix and match with pretty much any good ability and have a solid team going.

10/31 Make the Bulky Mon Bulkier

:audino-mega: :cresselia:

We are back with some stall today, with this very versatile team featuring Mega-Audino. I used a variation of this team following the release of Chromera, and brought it back today with relatively high success on ladder. The idea is to just give a mon of choice +1 to its defenses to start the match, and then Audino can mega-evolve to get Healer, helping our bulky mon live even longer. Cresselia was my bulky mon of choice for today, but you can use pretty much any bulky mon in its place.

11/01 More Flower Veil

:venusaur-mega: :flarelm:

We should all know this by now, but Simple Mega-Venusaur is a beast. Doesn't matter much what you have alongside it, as long as you have Flower Veil it will be successful. When it comes to Flower Veil users, there are not many grass-types that can even attempt to outbulk Eviolite Flarelm, making it a terrific partner to ensure that the Flower Veil stays up.

11/02 Spooky Time except Halloween was 2 days ago

:blacephalon: :dusclops:

Stealing from the viability ceilings, Blacephalon was pretty intriguing for me, and after some testing it really doesn't feel bad. It is a slightly worse Dragapult, sacrificing bulk and typing for higher special attack. However, with Friend Guard Dusclops, it can at least live long enough to fire off some strong attacks so Dusclops can clean up.

11/03 CRITS BABEY

:heracross-mega: :heracross-mega:

Alright, stealing from doipy's November recap again, but with crits this time. How do you live anything Heracross does when it also gets a 1.5x buff and bypasses your defensive stat changes.

11/04 Orange Birbs

:tomohawk: :cramorant-gulping:

Stealing this from an old forum post of mine, but I feel that Tomohawk is quite underrated, being a solidly bulky Delta Stream user, and Cramorant-Gulping, which has fallen off a bit recently, is made much better under Delta Stream, helping with its poor defensive typing.

11/05 Neuroforce

:dragapult: :dragapult:

Neuroforce is a strong ability that is really not seen often. It can turn the large amount of weaknesses that WP Pokemon possess and turn that into even more of a weakness, stacking on another multiplier. It is run with Tinted Lens here for the Pokemon focusing more on defensive typing.

11/06 Pickup Jaboca Berry

:deoxys-defense: :deoxys-defense:

Yet another old forum post of mine, this is a method to get around the Harvest + Jaboca/Rowap Berry ban. While it is far more inconsistent, it is still quite fun. After one Deoxys uses the berry, after the next berry is used, another one will be picked up, and it will be passed around from then on.

11/07 ඞ Zoroark-Hisui ඞ

:zoroark-hisui: :dusclops:

Zoroark-H is the closest to perfect a defensive typing can be, with one weakness, and three immunities. However, its poor defensive stats can hold it back, so we pair it with a Friend Guard Dusclops, greatly increasing the longevity.

11/08 My First Team?

:ampharos-mega: :banette:

This is a re-do of the first team I ever sent on the forums. I originally had Competitive and a Normalium-Z on Ampharos, but now I know better, and have upgraded to WP and Analytic.

11/09 Basically Mega-Heracross

:alakazam-mega: :alakazam-mega:

Just a thought here, Plus and Minus aren't seen very often, so let's make a Special Mega-Heracross team. Any special move puts a sizable chunk into anything.

11/10 Imposter Pikachu

:pikachu-starter: :pikachu-starter:

I hadn't used this team until recently, but it's just kinda fun. It's really nice if you just want to play some really quick games, as it is incredibly unlikely that you go longer than 5 turns.

11/11 Color Change lol

:chromera: :chromera:

Rip the type change, so lets just ignore that and use Color Change. Not terrible, but def not good.

11/12 Anti-Blissey TTar

:tyranitar: :tyranitar:

TTar with Fluffy is super bulky, making most fighting type attacks deal halved damage, helping with its 4x weakness. This team could have trouble with Blissey, so on the second TTar I gave it As One, preventing Blissey from using its Leppa Berry, nearly always securing a win there.

11/13 Triple Intimidate

:manectric: :type-null:

Credit to doipy hooves for this team, def one of the most fun teams from the samples on Showdown. But by my luck at least, the second you start using it you're gonna run into to dual Defiant Mega-Heracross.

11/14 Kind of a Rain Team

:basculegion: :glastrier:

I was just trying to find a decent way to use Basculegion, and thought rain couldn't be a bad option. Not a huge fan of Abomasnow so Glastrier was my best bet.

11/15 Oh yeah, Altaria Exists

:altaria: :dusclops:

Kinda forgot that this is a Pokemon, but it has some really solid stats, and with Download and a Pixilate buff, it has some solid damage output. To go with this, we add on a Dusclops with Power Spot.

11/16 Crit Venusaur

:venusaur-mega: :venusaur-mega:

Another solid crit idea, one Venusaur with Flower Veil, and one popping off huge damage with Super Luck Razor Claw.

11/17 Yeah

:avalugg-hisui: :dusclops:

There is no explanation, just Hisuian Avalugg.

11/18 The True Test of Man

:snom: :snom:

Here it is. The last team of jeffdaboss's daily metronome battles team. And yeah, it's dual snom. I ran out of ideas, so I present the True Test of Man. You are not a metronome battles player until you have a win with Dual Snom.

Thanks for tagging along through these three weeks, can't wait to see what comes from Gen 9. I will likely be staying off of Smogon and Showdown while I try to beat the game as quickly as possible. See you guys then, and Happy Metronoming!
 

Attachments

Last edited:
Has any thought been given to implementing species clause in this format? It seems like 99% of teams are two of the same Pokemon, and I'm curious how the format would adapt without it.

I'm also curious why Intrepid Sword is allowed but Gorilla Tactics isn't, given that Intrepid Sword is almost strictly better and using it on Mega Heracross is very much the dominant strategy right now.
 
Last edited:
Has any thought been given to implementing species clause in this format? It seems like 99% of teams are two of the same Pokemon, and I'm curious how the format would adapt without it.

I'm also curious why Intrepid Sword is allowed but Gorilla Tactics isn't, given that Intrepid Sword is almost strictly better and using it on Mega Heracross is very much the dominant strategy right now.
I do agree that they essentially serve the same purpose in terms of physical power, but I feel like Gorilla Tactics would be an upgrade for Heracross in the meta as it stands. As a separate multiplier, it benefits from any Attack stat changes (gaining +1 from base gives you 2.25x Attack with Gorilla Tactics and 2x with Intrepid Sword, going -1 puts you neutral with both but Gorilla Tactics can still ignore the negatives with a crit, going -2 puts you at 0.75x Attack with Gorilla Tactics and 0.67x with Intrepid Sword), and Intrepid Sword at least has counterplay in Unaware ignoring and Imposter copying stat boosts that Gorilla Tactics would perform better against. Intrepid Sword has the advantage in not losing its power with ability loss though.

As for species clause I wouldn't mind seeing how it plays out, though I don't really mind as the format is pretty custom already and there's not really much synergy you can make in teams as is.

EDIT: Basically my stance on Gorilla Tactics/Intrepid Sword is that I'm fine as is. At the time of the Gorilla Tactics ban I did feel that it wasn't really a big deal for Heracross because you could just run Intrepid Sword for the same effect without much loss, but I don't really care to see it return either way because it just makes Band Heracross better as said. I think that Intrepid Sword has more interesting non-Heracross uses and I like that it announces itself so it's clear what set you're running for people who may not know why Heracross is so broken, and if Intrepid Sword was banned then all the Heracrosses would just run Defiant or Hustle or whatever and keep punching through teams the same way.
 
Last edited:
Happy October! With just over a month left to the release of Scarlet and Violet, we are entering the last full month of [Gen 8] Metronome Battles before ringing in the new generation, so enjoy dynamax while it lasts. Let's get into the usage stats for September 2022.

The battle count slowly rises to 65834, at a leisurely pace.

https://www.smogon.com/stats/2022-09/gen8metronomebattle-1630.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2022-09/moveset/gen8metronomebattle-1630.txt

1630 Top 10 + last month positions: (I just realized I could have put sprites here to make this list look more interesting.)
#1: Mega Heracross (no change) :heracross-mega:
#2: Mega Venusaur (no change) :venusaur-mega:
#3: Necturna (#4) :necturna:
#4: Mega Sableye (#6) :sableye-mega:
#5: Blissey (#12) :blissey:
#6: Mega Camerupt (#16) :camerupt-mega:
#7: Dusclops (no change) :dusclops:
#8: Mew (#14) :mew:
#9: Mega Gengar (#10) :gengar-mega:
#10: Mega Ampharos (#5) :ampharos-mega:

There's a bit of a surprising shakeup going on with Blissey, Camerupt, and the prevalent Mew rising up from below to overtake positions within the top 10, while the megas hold strong. Other dark horses of the month include the classic Shaymin-Sky blazing a trail in #31 with 554 uses, going with Delta Stream/Aerilate to leverage its flying utility. Ursaluna stands tall in the top 20 at #19 with 1027 uses, and I also want to mention Plasmanta in #48 with 399 uses, which is a CAP mon I haven't heard much talk about, but apparently it can do well enough with just an Intrepid Sword and Weakness Policy.

In the end it looks like 2022 will continue to be the year of Heracross, but it's a closer competition for #1 than last month with 25.8% and 21.8% weighted usage respectively (15027 and 12901 raw). There's still one more full month of Gen 8 to go, though with no Gen 8 pokemon in the top 10 currently though Dragapult and Glastrier are close behind. What will the final snapshots of the meta look like, and will they remain competitive in the next generation of Metronome Battles with new challengers to face? Only time will tell, but to be honest I do think it's likely. It's already been a good few years and even tried and true mons like the humble ghosts Necturna and Dusclops are still in the game yet, though on the other hand in just this month you can see that there's always something shifting in the meta and always room for development, never settling.

Over in the moveset file, the top viability ceilings (highest GXE of someone that used a Pokemon) start from 80 this time around, tying Basculegion-Female (Lonely nature, highest weights on Download and Choice Band followed by Defiant and Normalium Z), Dusclops (classic Friend Guard bonk stall), Mega Gallade (raw power thorugh Intrepid Sword/Defiant, and various partners like Power Spot Corsola-Galar, Enamorus-Therian, Chromera, Dusclops), and Ursaluna (variety of abilities: Defiant, Simple, Sap Sipper, Intrepid Sword, and either the common Choice Band or Weakness Policy, partnered with Chromera, Enamorus-Therian, Gengar, Basculegion). I'll go through until we see all the mons from the top 10 and highlight some used sets along the way for a greater reflection on these last views of the meta.

Going down the list, at 79 we have Mew (Defiant/Competitive, Band/Specs), Enamorus-Therian (Specs/Weakness Policy with Competitive/Storm Drain/Intrepid Sword/Download), and Dragonite (mainly Magic Bounce and Weakness Policy with some Delta Stream). Chromera sits alone at 78 with a lot of potential choices taken (Bounce/Power Spot/Competitive/Simple/Magic Guard, and WP/Specs/Scarf/Normalium Z just looking at percentages above 10%). 77 has our Flower Veilers with Venusaur, Necturna, and Altaria, actually taking Aerilate and Magic Bounce primarily over Pixilate, with some Storm Drain in the mix.

Despite being the reigning champion of brute force, Heracross has only achieved a peak GXE of 76, along with other meta threats like the imposter Blissey, Zapdos running Galvanize, probably alongside the Tornadus-Therian going with the synergistic Delta Stream and Lum Berry. Finally, at 75 we round out the rest of the meta with Sableye and Ampharos, while at 74 Camerupt barely makes it in with the Analytic strategy mentioned earlier in the thread, along with a bunch of other high stat picks like Glastrier (Defiant/WP), Regirock (WP/Band with Desolate Land/Ice Scales/Contrary/Flame Body/Magic Bounce), Landorus-Therian (Aerilate/Intrepid Sword with Band), Marshadow (Intrepid Sword/Simple with WP/Band), Pajantom (Defiant/WP and Comatose/Band), Spectrier (usually Magic Bounce with Specs or Normalium Z, a questionable set of Grim Neigh + Eviolite, as well as Lightningrod to pair with the next mon), Gyarados (mostly a lightning rod of its own, but seems to use Intrepid Sword paired with Spectrier along with Band/Lum), and Zeraora going mostly Levitate and Galvanize with Specs, Magnet, and Band as its mixed item choices.

Overall there's a lot of variety that's managed to hit these high GXEs, and it goes to show that anything could succeed in some way, whether in the short term or with consistent time investment and perseverance, it all comes down to luck. Thanks for your reading.

EDIT: Some CAPs received some buffs/nerfs recently.
Miasmaw got a stat change, gaining 7 Speed, 20 Special Defence, and losing 27 Special Attack for a new spread of 85/135/60/88/105/99.
Venomicon-Prologue lost 20 Attack, going from 70 to 50.
Venomicon-Epilogue lost 1 SpA and 19 Speed, going from 63 to 62 SpA and 120 to 101 Speed.
Saharaja lost 8 Atk, 7 SpD, and 12 Speed, going from 120 to 112 Atk, 130 to 123 SpD, and 90 to 78 Speed.
Also the long lived Ally Switch + multiturn move targeting bug has been fixed.

EDIT 2:
We're pretty close to a new month so I will probably highlight these again next monthly post, but some interesting changes have been made.
Chromera's base type has changed from Dark/Poison to Dark/Normal. Overall I'd say this is a loss as it now has a 4x weakness to Fighting and is generally worse off in its resistances and weaknesses, but it still maintains its legendary base stats and Normal is one of the more decent STABs to have.

Rollout has been adjusted to be more accurate to the games and always hit its initial target in subsequent turns, so now there's no more RNG of deciding who to dynamax to block it. As an aside I've been grinding ladder again recently, and I've really appreciated dynamax again for giving you an extra turn of having a target up sometimes.
Mega Camerupt was that common? Wow. Great job to those influencers.
 
Last edited:
Happy November and Hallowmas! As the release of Scarlet and Violet approaches later this month, let's look back at the usage stats for October to reflect on Gen 8. Remember to check out jeffdaboss and his teams above, as his post will be updating each day until release with some new team ideas.

The battle count slightly decreases to 64564 battles for the month, but still relatively high.

Some CAPs received some buffs/nerfs recently.
Miasmaw got a stat change, gaining 7 Speed, 20 Special Defence, and losing 27 Special Attack for a new spread of 85/135/60/88/105/99.
Venomicon-Prologue lost 20 Attack, going from 70 to 50.
Venomicon-Epilogue lost 1 SpA and 19 Speed, going from 63 to 62 SpA and 120 to 101 Speed.
Saharaja lost 8 Atk, 7 SpD, and 12 Speed, going from 120 to 112 Atk, 130 to 123 SpD, and 90 to 78 Speed.
As mentioned in edits to my last post, there were a few stat changes to various CAPs, mostly losing stats, with the most major change being Chromera going from Dark/Poison to Dark/Normal type which makes it generally more vulnerable. Also some long standing bugs have been fixed including the Ally Switch bug with 2 turn moves being able to hit your ally, and Rollout is supposed to lock onto its initial target now.

This month I actually played on the ladder a lot to raise my final battle count before the end of Gen 8. At the start I was using Magic Guard Audino/Download setup Altaria and Shaymins testing Aerilate, but towards the end of the month I shifted towards going for crits with Dragapult again like I did last year, and I managed to reach the 1500s twice but mostly fluctuated through the ranks over the grind. I ended up learning about a minor optimization to the Super Luck + Scope Lens Dragapult team, and that was to run Razor Claw instead of Scope Lens to upgrade from a 30 BP Fling to 80 BP which you may as well do for more damage, though you lose out on the alliteration aspect.

Overall I did end up getting a greater appreciation for this set and Dragapult in general for being a very interesting mon Gen 8 has given us. It's a ghost that can avoid getting chipped by common Normal moves and a dragon that resists the various elements, with the ability to break through with strong neutral hits, having the speed to be likely to finish up in a 1v1 scenario, and also having the ability to dynamax to stall some passive damage out or just leave a target open. Some threats I faced included the usual meta mons like Heracross or other physical attackers just breaking through, or Venusaur/Slowbro getting Weakness Policy set up, but one unexpected yet consistent threat ended up being Imposter Pikachu-Starter because both of us were so frail that Struggle could just end me if I didn't finish them quickly. Misty Explosion was actually pretty annoying to roll especially with friendly fire crits, but I also noticed Power Swap really being able to turn the tables in some situations and it had some great moments.

Here's a bunch of replays from over the last month in mostly unordered order, mainly chosen for certain interactions or memorable moments. Overall I only wish I could have had a replay of getting both Fusion moves in one turn at least.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1692488747 - scary avaluggs
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1694828481 - 8 turns of freeze
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1693195129 - winning with freeze
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1692438447 - vs. Imposter Pikachu-Starter
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1693224671 - Bounce into Hurricane
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1697409731 - Psychic Terrain into Steel Roller
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1692512553 - Prismatic Laser + Expanding Force on Psychic Terrain
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1693990331 - Misty Terrain Pulse
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1692927526-n1tm1njri7j2gkhw2logohc62bif6eipw - Ally Switch into a Wish heal
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1694941980 - forgetting about Power Trick when going for Struggle
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1693236107 - Bad Dreams and the 3 sleep moves
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1694000991 - Uproar wakeup
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1697931946 - big Metal Burst
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1698090530 - big Reversal
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1697966014 - crit Dragapults vs Anger Point
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1692444467 - Focus Energy for 100% crits
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1692493694 - Power Swapping boosts
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1693197043 - 2 Water type Dragapults, big metal burst from Regidrago into Wish
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1697370737 - 2v1 comeback with Clanging Scales
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1692446019 - setup Slowbro vs Steel Dragapult + Aqua Ring
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1693072358 - the power of Gale Wings Gogoat and haunter
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1693124864 - turn 1 move 1 Misty Explosion speedrun
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1697987235 - "Shaving Soap" tells me about Razor Claw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1697894627 - fighting through debuffs
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1693988370 - no retreat topsy turvy
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1699592640 - double Sand Attack on Simple Guzzlord
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1694947358-9nr9ki0x01rlbfk8hrn771r5jlwk3xhpw - Sing through Substitute
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1697890925-oksvqa327ixpoqd79aathlt7wua0jj3pw - Petal Dance + Grassy Terrain and Struggle through Imprison
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1692937708-oe242y1tw145d6iegrwyhr4sa3nt0rfpw - stealing Bulletproof and blocking 3 moves
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1698067552-1fyw7qj34pc4drnhwjgmrlykg8osexbpw - Fling Razor Claw gets a kill against the #1 player (at the time)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1700405964 - octolock vs mist, flamethrower + weather ball in sun synergy
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1688414428 - Skill Swap Aerilate Explosion (Shaymin)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1690872999 - Double Octolock vs #1 player at the time (Shaymin)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1690058621 - T1 Burning Jealousy vs Intrepid Sword (Shaymin)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1690082058 - intense battle at high ladder + Metal Burst (Shaymin)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1692271945 - clutch Diancie 1v1 to Struggle (Shaymin)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1690937125 - Ingrain vs Aqua Ring (Shaymin)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1693983938 - t1 Guillotine comeback (Skymin)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1687934176 - Double Burn into Sparkling Aria (Altaria)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1688320448 - extremely buff gourgeist (Altaria)

https://www.smogon.com/stats/2022-10/gen8metronomebattle-1630.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2022-10/moveset/gen8metronomebattle-1630.txt

1630 Top 10 + last month positions:
#1: Mega Venusaur (#2) :heracross-mega:
#2: Mega Heracross (#1) :venusaur-mega:
#3: Blissey (#5) :blissey:
#4: Necturna (#3) :necturna:
#5: Mega Slowbro (#22) :slowbro-mega:
#6: Mega Sableye (#4) :sableye-mega:
#7: Mega Ampharos (#10) :ampharos-mega:
#8: Dusclops (#7) :dusclops:
#9: Mega Gengar (no change) :gengar-mega:
#10: Glastrier (#13) :glastrier:

For the final (full month) usage stats of Gen 8, Venusaur barely overtakes Heracross to take #1 in weighted usage (still losing in raw usage though, 12434 to 15194). Venusaur is kind of fighting an uphill battle as well, since I believe that a team with 2 of the same mons does count as 2 uses in these usage stats, and I feel like a lot of Venusaur teams are paired up with a different partner like Necturna while Heracross usually just doubles up. Slowbro makes a major move up the ranks from #22 to #5, back in the top 10 and once again succeeding with mainly Ice Scales, with only 2500 raw uses as the lowest among the top 10. Aside from that, there are some minor shifts around and Glastrier returns to represent Gen 8 with Simple and Defiant sets alike, leaving Dragapult just short at #11 again. It's interesting how so many different viable archetypes are represented here, from Flower Veil to Weakness Policy to Imposters to stall or just raw power.

Speaking of which, I have to pay my belated respects to Mega Gengar to hanging in the top 10 for most of this time yet taking it for granted because of it being a casual choice. It's usually been in the lower half and has dropped at times, and when you think about it, it's kind of the Special version of Mega Heracross in a sense though with major differences like being frail and having to rely on Competitive for boosts, as well as physical moves being generally more common. I've never really considered using it myself, but its raw uses speak for itself being in the top 5 and it's definitely something you'll see on the ladder. It's similar to Mega Alakazam as well, but with slightly more balanced stats and a viable type. Despite Alakazam's raw uses being fairly high as well, it's always dragged down by its players when it comes to the weighted stats. So I have to give some credit to Gengar for managing to make being a fast frail mon work, and it goes to show just how good being a Ghost is by nature.

The dark horse of the month is Dhelmise making it to rank 24 with only 372 uses, showing that Ghost as a dual type can really go the distance and is still a respectable niche for Flower Veil teams. Another interesting candidate is Conkeldurr, somehow making it to rank 58 somehow with only 78 uses, ranking above Marshadow with 878 uses, and with Intrepid Sword I can give it credit for having a respectable Attack stat (and the highest of Fighting-types behind megas). It does go to show that these 1630 Glicko weighted stats are biased towards people who are lucky/win more even if it's just in the short term, and that the 1500 or 0 stats may be more representative of what you might see on the typical ladder though being more directly ordered by popularity.

Checking in with the moveset file, the final viability ceilings (highest GXE of someone that used a Pokemon) are pretty high and self contained with the top 10 this time. Venusaur and Glastrier (Simple/Defiant setup with Weakness Policy) tie for the top at 83, followed by Dusclops in 82 (Magic Bounce, Magic Guard, Friend Guard + Eviolite), Heracross at 81, and Necturna at 80. To end this off at 5 numbers, at 79 we have Type: Null (mainly Friend Guard with some Unaware), Manaphy (very varied choices: Magic Bounce, Ice Scales, Lightning Rod, Magic Guard, etc with mainly Weakness Policy) and Blacephalon (mostly Specs and Competitive with some Desolate Land and Bright Powder). In other observations, Venusaur apparently has 10% weighted Poison Point usage, Defiant is creeping back up for Heracross with about 20% raw usage, and Hisuian Zoroark is still a popular pick and running very varied sets between Competitive, Magic Bounce, and immunity abilities with. My Super Luck Dragapult sets did not seem to make it on the weightings for Dragapult with Clear Body leading the way somehow, though for what it's worth it did make up the most raw usage of the abilities as seen in the unweighted/0 stats.
Thanks for your reading. I will probably make a post in spoiler tags on new mons/moves/abilities/items when datamines drop, so I'll see you in the next generation and until then we can still have fun with the Gen 8 ladder as it still stands.
 
Last edited:

Berks

has a Calm Mind
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
apologies if this has come up before, but is there a way we could take the timer down from 150 seconds? two and a half minutes feels like a lot to make exactly two decisions maximum (should I dmax/zmove on mon a/b), and realistically a 60 or even 30 second timer feels unlikely to be binding on normal gameplay
 

Irpachuza

You didn't get this far by giving up, did you?
is a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris an Artistis a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator
Random Battle Lead
apologies if this has come up before, but is there a way we could take the timer down from 150 seconds? two and a half minutes feels like a lot to make exactly two decisions maximum (should I dmax/zmove on mon a/b), and realistically a 60 or even 30 second timer feels unlikely to be binding on normal gameplay
Afaik at the moment there are only pre-made timers: VGC/BS ones, Ladder (the current), Challenges (longer), and blitz (seems kinda short, specially taking on account people would need to always jump animations to make sure time doesnt run out with so many stuff happening in Metronome).
I think a method to customize timers has been suggested, but it currently doesn't exist. I don't really see devs priorizing a Metronome Battles timer unless it's clearly hampering the players' experience.
 
Copies of Pokemon Scarlet are out in the wild, and that means it's time to start getting first impressions on all the new Gen 9 stuff. The data is pretty scattered and there's still a lot of things unknown like callable moves or certain interactions, so this will just be an initial analysis on the new pokemon, moves, abilities, and items based on the descriptions we know so far. All new content will be discussed under a spoiler tag.

Shoutouts to @RoiDadidou and his spreadsheet for easy reference to all the information, and also this pastebin for formatted base stats and this pastebin for combined move names and descriptions. Overall the data is still incomplete so far but I'm comfortable starting from here and editing going forward. (Fortunately the full BSTs dropped midway so I was able to make some actual comparisons there. Hopefully they are real.)
POKEMON
Note I won't be going over every mon here, and honestly I don't really have a lot to say on the surface what with how tera might affect the meta, but I think there are some cool additions.
Meowscarada (Grass/Dark) - 76/110/70/81/70/123 (Total: 530): This cool cat is pretty fast but falls short of its competition otherwise.
Skeledirge (Fire/Ghost) - 104/75/100/110/75/66 (Total: 530): Decently slow and relatively bulky and balanced among its Fire/Ghost competition.
Quaquaval (Water/Fighting) - 85/120/80/85/75/85 (Total: 530): Faces tough competition from every side of the stat spread with Arghonaut (slower and bulkier) and Urshifu/Keldeo (stronger in most other stats).
Brambleghast (Grass/Ghost) - 55/115/70/80/70/90 (Total: 480): This tumbleweed chose Speed, and so it is worse than Necturna everywhere else. Goodbye.
Dudunsparce (Normal) - 125/100/80/85/75/55 (Total: 520) I think Dudunsparce has some tough competition with classic normals from Snorlax to Ursaluna, but I would rather talk about Dudunsparce than the pigs that it's better than.
Houndstone (Ghost) - 72/101/100/50/97/68 (Total: 488) It's a ghost dog, but physical. Probably not that great but it's a ghost.
Farigiraf (Normal/Psychic) - 120/90/70/110/70/60 (Total: 520) The giraffe is a lot like Dudunsparce but more inclined towards Special Attack. I just noticed they have the same BST.
Dondozo (Water) - 150/100/115/65/65/35 (Total: 530) Big fat catfish. The slowness is nice and the physical stat spread kind of reminds me of Urshifu. It also forms a unique combination with the sushi mon.
Palafin-0 (Water) - 100/70/72/53/62/100 (Total: 457) Not great, but Palafin gets a form change on switchout so that should be a pretty solid choice to pick from the teambuilder...
Palafin-Hero (Water) - 100/160/97/106/87/100 (Total: 650) Or the form could be so powerful it exceeds the BST cap. Oh well.
Arboliva (Grass/Normal) - 78/69/90/125/109/39 (Total: 510) A new slow Grass type. Honestly it's still probably not that great but it's a step closer to the meta.
Bellibolt (Electric) - 109/64/91/103/83/45 (Total: 495) Fat frog. I just put it here because it's slow but you may as well use Mega Ampharos.
Cetitan (Ice) - 170/113/65/45/55/73 (Total: 521) Fat whale. This has really big HP for an ice type though.
Baxcalibur (Dragon/Ice) - 115/145/92/75/86/87 (Total: 600) Our pseudolegendary. Has one of the highest Attack stats among dragons and is still decently bulky, with a handful of weaknesses to make use of. There's always tera too, but that's getting ahead of myself.
Tatsugiri (Dragon/Water) - 68/50/60/120/95/82 (Total: 475) Sushi mon. Nothing special by itself, but its signature ability is supposed to form a unique combination with the catfish.
Flamigo (Flying/Fighting) - 82/115/74/75/64/90 (Total: 500) This is like slower Hawlucha. I only mention this because it has 500 BST and is Flying type and it has a funny name.
Garganacl (Rock) - 100/100/130/45/90/35 (Total: 500) A nice and slow titan of salt, with its only deficiencies being Special Attack and Speed. It kind of pales to Regirock in defenses though, with only having 20 HP over it.
Glimmora (Rock/Poison) - 83/55/90/130/81/86 (Total: 525) Nihilego 2 but not as lopsided.

Great Tusk (Ground/Fighting) - 115/131/131/53/53/87 (Total: 570): Strong physicals and weak specials.
Brute Bonnet (Grass/Dark) - 111/127/99/79/99/55 (Total: 570): Pretty nice slow grass, actually pretty similar to Zarude but without the speed.
Sandy Shocks (Electric/Ground) - 85/81/97/121/85/101 (Total: 570): I'm not sure if Stunfisk is better than this. The weaknesses and resistances seem balanced on the surface with more common weaknesses, so Weakness Policy might be alright.
Scream Tail (Fairy/Psychic) - 115/65/99/65/115/111 (Total: 570): The bulkiest and fastest Fairy/Psychic by far, though it lacks offenses to compensate. I don't know how to feel about this one considering it doesn't even have that many weaknesses to proc WP off of, but the closest comparisons in its type are big special hitters.
Flutter Mane (Ghost/Fairy) - 55/55/55/135/135/135 (Total: 570): Speaking of big special hitters, this is one. It's faster and has more SpD than most ghosts but is definitely more physically frail.
Slither Wing (Bug/Fighting) - 85/135/79/85/105/81 (Total: 570): Kind of a mini Heracross with less Attack/Defense and more Special Attack/Speed. It doesn't really say a lot considering Heracross's main selling point is its raw Attack.
Roaring Moon (Dragon/Dark) - 105/139/71/55/101/119 (Total: 590): It's raw. More speed and physically inclined than special unlike the other Dark/Dragons who have succeeded with Weakness Policy in the past. 139 Attack is pretty big though.
Iron Moth (Fire/Poison) - 80/70/60/140/110/110 (Total: 570): 140 Special Attack is pretty big and Fire/Poison has a lot of resistances but with some common weaknesses as well.
Iron Hands (Fighting/Electric) - 154/140/108/50/68/50 (Total: 570): A rare slow paradox that boasts a healthy HP stat of 154. Could be a fair rival to the physicals of Ursaluna/Glastrier, though noticeably lacking Special Defence in comparison.
Iron Jugulis (Dark/Flying) - 94/80/86/122/80/108 (Total: 570): Galarian Moltres has an edge in Special Defence over Special Attack and Speed but it's pretty balanced.
Iron Thorns (Rock/Electric) - 100/134/110/70/84/72 (Total: 570): It's mostly Tyranitar but worse specially with some extra speed. Maybe you can still make Weakness Policy work.
Iron Bundle (Ice/Water) - 56/80/114/124/60/136 (Total: 570): This chose to focus on Speed, Special Attack, and Defence which is a pretty odd combination. There are other better choices to Weakness Policy with, but the mon is a funny penguin.
Iron Valiant (Fighting/Fairy) - 74/130/90/120/60/116 (Total: 590): Cool mixed power, very Azelf-like. I think it's still a bit frail and vulnerable to weaknesses though.

Ting-Lu - 165/110/130/50/80/45 (Total: 580) - Dark/Ground - Pretty cool new member of the slow and physically bulky/healthy archetype, and could probably pull off Weakness Policy alright with its fair share of weaknesses/resistances/immunities.
Chien-Pao - 80/130/80/90/65/135 (Total: 580) - Dark/Ice - Mostly better than Weavile which isn't saying much.
Wo-Chien - 85/90/100/100/135/70 (Total: 580) - Dark/Grass - The Flower Veil archetype gains a new legendary member, and it has the highest Special Defence of grass types so far and a decent speed stat. Pretty neat.
Chi-Yu - 55/80/80/145/120/100 (Total: 580) - Dark/Fire - Lastly we have a big special hitter that's mostly balanced but kind of dumps HP in the end.
Armarouge - 85/60/100/125/80/75 (Total: 525) - Fire/Psychic - Probably better off with Victini.
Ceruledge - 75/125/80/60/100/85 (Total: 525) - Fire/Ghost - It's another Fire/Ghost, but specializing in the places Skeledirge doesn't.
Toedscruel - 80/70/65/80/120/100 (Total: 515) - Ground/Grass - It's Tentacool but a Grass type. Mega Venusaur basically outclasses it in its main element.
Clodsire - 130/75/60/45/100/20 (Total: 430) - Poison/Ground - 20 speed lol.
Annihilape - 110/115/80/50/90/90 (Total: 535) - Fighting/Ghost - Marshadow but with higher HP and less SpA/Speed. Honestly it's a close one but Marshadow's mixedness should make it more consistent.

Overall this generation looks to have some fun new high BST tools to play with, but in the end it's all about what works for you.

NERFS:
Cresselia lost 10 in both defenses, going down to 120/70/110/75/120/85. Ouch!
Hisuian Zoroark had its stats adjusted to match regular Zoroark, losing SpA and Speed and gaining back HP and Attack.

ABILITIES
I vaguely sorted these by how I can see their viability, though we still need more details on how they will play out for some.
Banned tier:
Earth Eater: Ground absorb. Probably banned for HP restoration.
Seed Sower: Creates Grassy Terrain on hit. This will probably be banned for HP restoration.

Interesting:
Commander: It seems like this is for the sushi dragon to merge with the catfish somehow. Apparently Khu thought this would be very strong in doubles, so I'm interested to see how it works out in practice because there are very little details on it. Of these this is probably more of a gimmick, but I think it could be the next Gulp Missile.
Well-Baked Body: Take no damage from Fire moves and get +2 Defense instead. This is probably better than Flash Fire for a Fire immunity.
Opportunist: Boost the same stats as enemies. This could be pretty funny to copy enemy weakness policies but is more of a passive ability.
Purifying Salt: Makes you immune to status AND halves Ghost move damage. This may be an upgrade over Comatose for that purpose.

Legendary gimmicks:
Orichalcum Pulse: Sets up sun and gives +1 Attack while in sun. An upgrade over Drought and can set up with later paradox abilities for a nice but temporary power boost.
Hadron Engine: Sets up Electric Terrain and likely gives +1 Special Attack while in Electric Terrain, as an upgrade to Electric Surge.
Protosynthesis/Quark Drive: Boosts the highest stat in Sun/Electric Terrain respectively, or if holding Booster Energy. I don't know how good using your partner or item + ability slot for a single boost is or how large it is, but you could have some setup gimmick teams with this for sure, and potentially permanently if it interacts with Desolate Land.
Overall I'm not really sure how to rate these, but they are definitely gimmicks you can set up easily if you want to do so with a team.

Other gimmicky abilities:
Good as Gold: Become immune to enemy status moves. This probably shouldn't include Metronome itself but rather its called move. Honestly Magic Bounce might be mostly better in practice unless facing another bouncer, as it will repel most status moves instead which is usually better.
EDIT: Arrrrgh I just realized that this could potentially block Perish Song right after I thought about it a bit more. This is why I think it's not totally outclassed as being immune to status moves is unique and probably pretty good on its own, it's just that Magic Bounce already exists and is top tier.
Anger Shell: When hit below 50% HP, raise Atk/Spa/Speed and lower Def/SpD by 1, like a mini Shell Smash crossed with Berserk. Not the best boost, but I guess you can count on it to happen in a match if you want to turn the tables and get consecutive hits with a speed change or something.
Tablets/Sword/Vessel/Beads of Ruin: Lowers Atk/Def/SpA/SpD of all other Pokemon except itself, probably affecting your ally as well. I'm not sure how to feel about these abilities exactly, as I can see uses for them but also . I don't think they will trigger Defiant on an ally and Contrary may work but feels like a waste. Still, it's debuffs we didn't have before.

Pretty Niche Move Rolls:
Sharpness: Powers up slicing moves. This sounds pretty niche.
Rocky Payload: Powers up Rock moves. This is pretty niche.
Electromorphosis: Gives Charge (2x damage on Electric moves) when hit by an attack. This is pretty niche to rely on a specific offensive type, but I guess it will always be up.
Wind Rider: Take no damage from wind moves and boost Attack instead, including Tailwind. This is better than Wind Power but still pretty niche.
Thermal Exchange: Boosts attack when hit by a fire move and cannot be burned. This is an upgrade to Magma Armor which is still pretty niche.
Cud Chew: After eating a berry you can eat it again at the end of next turn. It might have some pretty niche uses like eating a Lum twice (if you get statused 2 turns in a row), but Ripen and Harvest are probably better in the long term.

Redundant/Outclassed:
Wind Power: Activates Charge when hit by wind moves, including Tailwind. This is like worse Electromorphosis in every case but Tailwind, and at that point you just have Charge to show for it.
Armor Tail: Just a Dazzling/Queenly Majesty clone.
Lingering Aroma: Mummy clone.
Mycelium Might: Always act "more slowly" when using status moves, but ignore abilities with them. You may as well just run Mold Breaker from what I understand to always ignore abilities with every move and not act slower.
Costar: Copies ally stat changes on entering battle. This is probably pointless at worst and redundant at best like if you want to copy Intrepid Sword, but at that point you can just run it yourself.

Useless:
Zero to Hero: The dolphin becomes a hero on switchout so it's not going to trigger, but you can probably choose hero form dolphin anyway like Wishiwashi. (mid-EDIT: Alas, Palafin-Hero has 650 BST so it will never see the light of day.)
Toxic Debris: Toxic Spikes are useless.
Supreme Overlord: Pretty useless if it only takes effect on entering battle.

Old edited abilities:
Protean and Libero can probably be unbanned since it only works once per switch (the whole battle) now, and your one type change is going to be spent turning into Metronome's Normal type first.
Battle Bond may just be boosted Atk/SpA/Spe on a kill instead of a form change based on description changes, which may be freeable.
Snow Warning causes snow now which increases defense for Ice types, and Hail is replaced by snow. We can probably free Snow Warning if it doesn't do passive damage anymore.
Intrepid Sword and Dauntless Shield now only activate once per battle. Not a big deal but I wonder how that interacts with Skill Swap.

MOVES
As of writing we don't have the comprehensive move data for what can actually be used and called via Metronome in the game, but I'll go over all the move descriptions briefly because they all have some kind of neat effect. Hopefully Metronome is still usable even without most of its natural users, and I also hope more moves are added to the Metronome use flag compared to Gen 8 which excluded half the new moves for some reason, because it's nice to see some more variety.

Legends Arceus moves have gotten reworks for the modern day and they have various fun effects, some more relevant than others.
Dire Claw is a +crit move with a chance to inflict poison, paralysis, or sleep.
Psyshield Bash boosts defense on hit.
Mystical Power boosts SpA on hit.
Springtide Storm may lower attack.
Raging Fury is a Fire-type Outrage.
Wave Crash is a Water-type Double-Edge.
Chloroblast may be a Grass-type Steel Beam.
Victory Dance is a physical Quiver Dance.
Headlong Rush is a Ground-type Close Combat.
Esper Wing has +crit and boosts speed.
Bitter Malice lowers attack on hit.
Shelter is a +2 Defense boost.
Triple Arrows has +crit, and can lower defense or flinch.
Infernal Parade is Hex but with a burn chance.
Ceaseless Edge has +crit and leaves spikes.
Bleakwind Storm can lower speed.
Wildbolt Storm can paralyze.
Sandsear Storm can burn.
Lunar Blessing is like Jungle Healing where it can restore HP and status for the user and ally. This may be our first ally healing move, but with gamefreak's track record I don't expect much.
Take Heart is Refresh + Calm Mind.

Now we have new moves. A lot of these are signatures so they could go either way with usability.
Tera Blast has the Photon Geyser adaptive damage effect and also changes type when you Terastallize.
Axe Kick sounds like a Hi Jump Kick variant that can confuse.
Last Respects has more power with more defeated allies, so it probably won't get too crazy in a 2v2 environment.
Lumina Crash debuffs SpD by 2 on hit.
Order Up attacks and boosts a stat if the user has sushi in its mouth, so I doubt it is callable.
Spicy Extract boosts the target's Attack by 2 but also lowers its Defense by 2. Pretty risky.
Spin Out lowers the user's speed by 2 on hit, another source of self speed drops.
Population Bomb can hit 1 to 10 times in a row. Of all things that are probably not callable, I hope this one is.
Ice Spinner is a hit that removes terrain. Pretty interesting.
Glaive Rush causes attacks from the enemy pokemon over the next turn to not miss and do double damage. If this move doesn't finish someone then it is a pretty big risk.
Revival Blessing revives a fainted party member with half HP. I definitely don't think this will be callable but it might be pretty clutch if it targets correctly.
Salt Cure does damage and inflicts salt damage over time to the target, with Steel and Water types taking more damage. Wrapping moves are already pretty devastating so I'm interested in this.
Triple Dive is a water type triple axel/kick.
Mortal Spin is like Rapid Spin's bind removal but with poison instead, which sounds guaranteed.
Doodle changes the ability of the user and ally to match its target. This could get chaotic.
Fillet Away uses your own HP to sharply boost Attack, Special Attack, and Speed. Another risky but strong swing move.
Kowtow Cleave sounds like False Surrender to be honest.
Flower Trick is a sure-hit sure-crit grass move. Pretty neat.
Torch Song is a fire move that boosts SpA. Pretty neat.
Aqua Step is a water move that boosts speed.
Raging Bull sounds like a Tauros thing and its type will be based on which Tauros you use so I doubt it will be callable, but it breaks barriers.
Make It Rain tosses coins and lowers Special Attack, sounding like an Overheat-type move that might be Steel.
Ruination is a Super Fang clone.
Collision Course and Electro Drift are the legendary signatures so I doubt they are callable, but they are pretty strong and get stronger on SE hits.
Shed Tail creates a half HP substitute and is supposed to switch you out, so I wonder how it will work in 2v2.
Snowscape summons a snowstorm.
Chilly Reception creates a snowstorm and switches you out, so here it will just be another snow summoning move.
Tidy Up removes hazards and Substitute and boosts Attack and Speed.
Pounce is a Bug move that lowers speed.
Trailblaze is a Grass move that increases speed.
Chilling Water lowers Attack on hit.
Hyper Drill is a big normal move.
Twin Beam is a 2-hit Psychic move.
Rage Fist apparently has greater power the more times the user has been hit by attacks.
Armor Cannon is a Fire-type Close Combat and Bitter Blade is a Fire-type Leech Life.
Double Shock is a big Electric move that removes electric type from the user and probably requires it.
Gigaton Hammer is a big Steel move that can't be used twice in a row, which probably isn't a problem.
Comeuppance is another counter-type move. Mostly these aren't callable but Metal Burst is.
Aqua Cutter is a simple water +crit move.

Based on descriptions (not the flag), notable removals from Gen 8 include Submission, Vital Throw, Revenge, Grudge, Aromatherapy, Doom Desire, Psycho Boost, Psycho Shift, Autotomize, Dual Chop, Flower Shield, Leaf Tornado, and Power-Up Punch. I for one will miss the rare Magic Coat and Venom Drench triggers as well. Some other removed mons will probably lose their signatures as well but without a description change. Apparently Scald has lost its learners and TM status as well so hopefully we'll get a better picture soon but it's not the end of the world to not know for now.

ITEMS
So far we do not have an item description dump, so this is just based on observations and known reveals and is pretty lacking at the moment.
Ability Shield: Protects you from ability loss. Very niche.
Loaded Dice: Boosts chance of higher multihits. Niche.
Covert Cloak: Acts as Shield Dust and blocks all secondary effects. Actually a pretty solid item as I've mentioned before, and on a Magic Bouncer you become immune to almost all forms of debuffs.
Mirror Herb: Copies enemy stat boosts once. Opportunist is probably a better version of this as a permanent ability and you can get more bang out of your item slot.
Booster Energy: As mentioned, can be used with a Legendary Gimmick Ability to boost your highest stat in some way. Not sure if it's worth it, but it's an option available to everyone.

TERASTALLIZATION
So far we don't really have exact numbers on this, but something new we learned about via previews since the last time I posted was that terastallization supposedly preserves your original STAB type boosts. This means that dual type mons still have some kind of advantage, like if you terastallized Mew and Victini to the same thing then Victini would still have STAB on Fire moves compared to Mew with only Psychic. I think this could be nice offensively to spread out your STAB, like to stack on or with the -ate abilities for more chances of a boosted move. I won't go too much into this as I want to get more exact info on how it interacts with things, but it sounds like it could be more interesting decision making for teambuilding, though only applicable to one mon. I will miss dynamax though and honestly I'm already worried about facing different varieties of bulky ghosts or whatever other horrors that may arise.
Overall I think the biggest lesson I've learned through manual mega strategies is that at some point I forget to mega on turn 1, and I think this will probably happen to me with terastallization. Speaking of megas, I feel like they won't be able to terastallize in the hypothetical future national dex mechanics based on not being able to dynamax, but I don't really know how that's going to go down either.
Overall Gen 9 is shaping up to be a pretty interesting experience, and I definitely think that what happens in practice will probably go beyond any of my expectations from theorymonning at this point with the little info we have. It's hard to believe that we will have seen the start and end of [Gen 8] Metronome Battles, and it was an interesting ride for sure. I might make a team of Gen 8 mons and do some final laddering after the leaks have died down a bit, though the Dragapults kind of fulfill that niche. See you in a week for the release of the next generation.
 
Last edited:
I decided to make this post a part 2 for the datamine spoiler impressions because part 1 is big enough already and I felt that the content of this post is actually disturbing enough to warrant an individual post. This will mostly cover an ability interaction we just learned about, a couple more items, and updated data from 1.0.1. Unfortunately there is still no parsed move data so we don't know what's callable. Also check out jeffdaboss's post updates above for the new teams he's been adding as they are pretty neat.

POKEMON
I initially missed that Kleavor loses 5 Attack and gains 5 Special Defence.
In the 1.0.1 patch, the Dark Sublegendaries lost 10 total BST. To quote from the thread:
Ting-lu: -10 HP (165 -> 155) (EDIT: Tinglu lost 5 Def as well and got it moved into SpA for 125 Def and 55 SpA)
Chien-Pao: -10 Attack (130 -> 120)
Wo-Chien: -5 attack (90-> 85) , -5 spattack (100 -> 95)
Chi-Yu: -10 spattack (145 -> 135)
Overall they are still pretty strong where they excel. Less offenses on the grass one is kind of sad though.

ABILITIES

I forgot about Guard Dog earlier. It boosts your Attack when Intimidated. Just run Defiant.

We got some big information from Theorymon on how Commander works. Basically when the sushi (Tatsugiri) and catfish (Dondozo) are sent out together, the sushi will jump into the catfish's mouth, which gives the catfish +2 in the main 5 stats (Attack/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe). However, the sushi will no longer be targetable or usable and the battle becomes a 2v1 until the catfish dies, in which the sushi will pop out as well. Now this is a pretty interesting gimmick and I'd say it has a fair share of risk and reward since a 2v1 situation is pretty taxing. As a reminder, Dondozo has 150/100/115/65/65/35 which is actually pretty crazy. That's 504/598/658/458/458/338 at neutral, taking the bulky statboost archetype even further beyond. This mon will be a threat for sure, and it still has a free ability and item slot to use this gimmick with.

Weird interaction ideas:
What does Imposter do for both sides? Enemy Imposter probably shouldn't change forms, but an enemy getting Imposter on your super Dondozo could be a threat, though Dondozo is pretty slow.
What if a Dondozo that eats the sushi imposters up? What happens to the sushi?
Can you put Commander on anything else???
I just realized Simple Dondozo will be a thing with +4/3x in every stat and the only thing to stop it is Unaware OR steal the buffs yourself with Opportunist or something. At that point you have to hope that you just get better moves in the 2v1. And it can still run its own item like Choice Band or Specs or Weakness Policy or Lum Berry or Covert Cloak to boot. What are you even going to do about a mon with 504/897/987/687/687/507 stats from turn 1? Look at this:

+1 252+ Atk Heracross-Mega Superpower vs. +4 252 HP / 252 Def Dondozo: 102-120 (20.2 - 23.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
+1 252+ Atk Heracross-Mega Power Whip vs. +4 252 HP / 252 Def Dondozo: 136-160 (26.9 - 31.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Venusaur-Mega Power Whip vs. +4 252 HP / 252 Def Dondozo: 80-96 (15.8 - 19%) -- possible 6HKO
252 SpA Venusaur-Mega Leaf Storm vs. +4 252 HP / 252 SpD Dondozo: 140-168 (27.7 - 33.3%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Minus Ampharos-Mega Thunder vs. +4 252 HP / 252 SpD Dondozo: 366-432 (72.6 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+4 252 Atk Dondozo Tackle vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Venusaur-Mega: 75-89 (20.6 - 24.4%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
+4 252 Atk Dondozo Struggle vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Venusaur-Mega: 94-111 (25.8 - 30.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+4 252 SpA Dondozo Ember vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Venusaur-Mega: 118-140 (32.4 - 38.4%) -- 98.1% chance to 3HKO
+4 252 SpA Dondozo Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Venusaur-Mega: 262-310 (71.9 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The worst part is that it doesn't even have to be a Water-type. It can Terastallize into a Ghost or a Grass with Flower Veil to be undebuffable or something with no weaknesses, and this all happens on turn 1. And then if you manage to kill it you still have to deal with the sushi. Honestly I would rather deal with the 160 Attack dolphin.

ITEMS
Not a lot to say here but it looks like there aren't many held items, but we will have confirmation soon.
There is the Punching Glove which supposedly combines Iron Fist and Protective Pads, so I guess that's a small upgrade. I haven't seen it for myself though so this is just hearsay but the Iron Fist part makes sense.
The Clear Amulet is basically Clear Body in item form, which is actually not bad. It probably won't be ignorable by ability ignoring abilities and is another nice defensive item. Also if you put this on Dondozo then it just can't get weaker and it can still run Simple. Thank you game freak. I'm done.

EDIT:
Also Metronome is a confirmed TM. Hooray!
1668218699797.png

EDIT: We have the move flags and callable moves now.
EDIT: And a few returning moves.
Code:
827: Dire Claw
828: Psyshield Bash

830: Stone Axe

832: Mystical Power

834: Wave Crash
835: Chloroblast
836: Mountain Gale
837: Victory Dance
838: Headlong Rush
839: Barb Barrage
840: Esper Wing
841: Bitter Malice
842: Shelter
843: Triple Arrows
844: Infernal Parade
845: Ceaseless Edge
846: Bleakwind Storm
847: Wildbolt Storm
848: Sandsear Storm
849: Lunar Blessing
850: Take Heart
851: Tera Blast

853: Axe Kick
854: Last Respects
855: Lumina Crash

859: Spin Out

861: Ice Spinner
862: Glaive Rush

865: Triple Dive
866: Mortal Spin

869: Kowtow Cleave
870: Flower Trick
871: Torch Song
872: Aqua Step

891: Bitter Blade

893: Gigaton Hammer

895: Aqua Cutter
We got most of the PLA moves and about half of the Gen 9 moves. I posted my first impressions in the other post but overall I think gamefreak could've done better. Thank you game freak.

Also we don't even get to see snow outside of Snow Warning now.

EDIT: Also Heart Swap, Judgment, Revelation Dance, and Ice Hammer will return as usable moves.
 
Last edited:
Leading up to release day, I played a bunch of final Gen 8 Metronome Battle games and had some pretty tough matches that would come down to the wire, but we're not done yet.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1712848065 - the 16 turn Leppa Berry outstall
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1713631837 - Dunsparce stalemate
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1713516643 - Dragapult vs Togekiss
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1713651053 - Dragapult vs Gourgeist
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1713664041 - Infatuation vs Aqua Ring vs Perish Song

Gen 9 content is live to play with, though like most releases it's going to be pretty messy. Terastallization and Gen 9 moves/changes are not a thing because we are still in a Gen 8 format for now, though the new pokemon/items/abilities will work fine despite showing up as illegal. Try them while you can! Also dynamax is still around to play with too.

This is my first game with Gen 9 mons. I actually lost this one because of passive damage, but in general Commander is kind of silly and broken because of Metronome targeting the hidden sushi half the time. I'm going to try some other stuff for now though.

EDIT: I defeated an opposing Dondozo team with the equally broken power of Seed Sower Shaymin stall and gave them a first loss.
Opportunist is pretty fun.
I stood up the sushi guy again with Cloak Sableye and Opportunist Null. Unaware might also be useful.
Probably the best case scenario for Opportunist content.
1668740631411.png


EDIT 2:
MAXIMUM OPPORTUNIST
1668746426767.png


Stopping Glubglogabgolab's fish one last time with the Shaymins.
 
Last edited:
Since gen 9 things are now banned from the gen 8 format, I just wanna relay here a certain change that’s been made since then. It’s been discovered that Opportunist and Mirror Herb only copy boosts gained from the effects of moves. Most importantly, this means they can’t copy each other, but it also means they can’t copy Commander, Defiant, Intrepid Sword, Weakness Policy, or really anything else that you can select in the teambuilder. I imagine Opportunist at least could still be a strong ability, but I don’t know if I’d still run Mirror Herb.

EDIT: Apparently the researcher was wrong about this. Further research is needed, but they do seem to copy Defiant and Commander, though they are confirmed to not copy each other.
 
Last edited:

Irpachuza

You didn't get this far by giving up, did you?
is a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris an Artistis a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator
Random Battle Lead
Do we have an ETA on when Gen 9 Metronome will be available to ladder, out of curiosity?
Currently the devs that collaborate with randomized formats are working on main Gen 9 Randbats (along with other general SV stuff since we are still on the first week of implementation). We intend to ask them about the other formats (Metronome, HC, CC1v1, etc) once main rands is implemented. So no ETA so far, unless someone else with more free time believes they can make it.
 
Currently the devs that collaborate with randomized formats are working on main Gen 9 Randbats (along with other general SV stuff since we are still on the first week of implementation). We intend to ask them about the other formats (Metronome, HC, CC1v1, etc) once main rands is implemented. So no ETA so far, unless someone else with more free time believes they can make it.
Gimme an initial banlist and I can have it written tonight. Metronome doesn’t need a whole team generator; the most complicated thing I’d have to do is ban having Steel for a Tera type.
 

Irpachuza

You didn't get this far by giving up, did you?
is a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris an Artistis a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator
Random Battle Lead
Gimme an initial banlist and I can have it written tonight. Metronome doesn’t need a whole team generator; the most complicated thing I’d have to do is ban having Steel for a Tera type.
Glad to hear, thanks!
As blanket rules, mons over our previous 625 BST limit, steel types, and steel tera.
I could see Opportunist and Commander getting banned as well. I'll tag the de facto "tierers" Ivy and doipy hooves to get their takes on that and BST.
 

Ivy

resident enigma
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributor
Gimme an initial banlist and I can have it written tonight. Metronome doesn’t need a whole team generator; the most complicated thing I’d have to do is ban having Steel for a Tera type.
Yeah I haven't played enough of the game to even know what to ban here apart from the blanket bans on high BST and steel types (good thing Gholdengo will be gone from the start no matter what, lol). Going to have to solicit advice from my greatest hopers and thinkers like doipy hooves
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

Top