Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
I think it's been clear for a while now that if you are using a z-move on Mimikyu, it's Shadow Claw.
That being said, I wouldn't be surprised to see Play Rough z used because it's stronger and gives Play Rough 100% accuracy, but it seems like Shadow Claw just offers damage on more desirable targets.
That's cute, but sorry it's not that strong. It doesn't KO tanks, and it's not better than Life Orb Swords Dance, which by the way isn't limited to only setting up once.
+3 252+ Atk Mimikyu Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Aggron-Mega: 105-124 (30.5 - 36%) -- 47.7% chance to 3HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mimikyu Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Aggron-Mega: 109-130 (31.6 - 37.7%) -- 90.9% chance to 3HKO
Edit: My bad, used Mega instead of regular, but it still doesn't change anything useful.
+3 252+ Atk Mimikyu Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Aggron: 132-156 (38.3 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mimikyu Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Aggron: 136-161 (39.5 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
I don't know why you named Aggron of all things when that's not even relevant to the meta, so here's a better calc.
+3 252+ Atk Mimikyu Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Celesteela: 237-280 (59.5 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mimikyu Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Celesteela: 247-292 (62 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Can't OHKO that one either, while...
+4 252+ Atk Life Orb Mimikyu Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Celesteela: 370-437 (92.9 - 109.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
================
TL;DR Z-Splash is useless, if the rest of your team lacks a Z-move that's no excuse to use Splash here when it's clearly worse in all aspects. If you seriously want to use a Z-move...
+2 252+ Atk Mimikyu Never-Ending Nightmare vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Celesteela: 379-447 (95.2 - 112.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Welp. Guess I should shut my mouth. Then again, I was just waking up at that time, so I suppose my calculations at the time would be wrong.
Anyways, it does seem that it runs better with Swords Dance Life Orb than it does with Z-Splash. Now the question is why the hell GF would give Mimikyu that move if it isn't even gonna be useful offensively...
Currently running a Mild Mimikyu (might switch to a speed boost one) with Normalium Z:
Shadow Sneak
Play Rough
Splash
X-Scissor/Shadow Claw
with really good success so far.
I understand that Z-Splash (+3 stages atk) is controversial vs. swords dance life orb, but I really like it. I may go SD/LO eventually. I've been running it with a Toxapex + Salazzle (flamethrower/toxic/substitute/sludge) and a Shell Smash Acrobatics Minior.
Ability: Disguise - Once per battle, the shroud that covers the Pokémon can protect it from an attack. Base Stats - 55 HP / 90 Atk / 80 Def / 50 SAtk / 105 SDef / 96 Spe
Level Up
Wood Hammer
Splash
Scratch
Astonish
Copycat
Double Team
Baby-Doll Eyes
Shadow Sneak
Mimic
Feint Attack
Charm
Slash
Shadow Claw
Hone Claws
Play Rough
Pain Split
TMs
Work Up
Toxic
Bulk Up
Hidden Power
Taunt
Hyper Beam
Light Screen
Protect
Safeguard
Frustration
Thunderbolt
Thunder
Return
Leech Life
Psychic
Shadow Ball
Double Team
Facade
Rest
Attract
Thief
Round
Fling
Charge Beam
Will-O-Wisp
Embargo
Shadow Claw
Payback
Thunder Wave
Swords Dance
Psych Up
X-Scissor
Infestation
Dream Eater
Swagger
Sleep Talk
Substitute
Trick Room
Dark Pulse
Dazzling Gleam
Confide
Egg Moves
Grudge
Destiny Bond
Curse
Nightmare
Z-Moves
Breakneck Blitz
Savage Spin-Out
Never-Ending Nightmare
Bloom Doom
Gigavolt Havoc
Shattered Psyche
Black Hole Eclipse
Twinkle Tackle
Say Hello to the absolute safest switch-in in Pokemon history. Mimikyu is deceptive in more ways than just the obvious. Fantastic typing grant you a natural 3 immunities, meaning there are a plethora of attacks you can switch into and still maintain your Disguise on top of it. With additional methods of preserving your Disguise in the forms of moves like Substitute and Protect, it will make 55/80/105 defenses go much farther than they would on other pokemon. There are a few directions one could take Mimikyu in, both offensively as well as defensively.
Known Disguise Mechanics
Sunsteel Strike/Moongeist Beam ignore Disguise.
Disguise will not trigger on entry hazard damage or weather damage.
Disguise does not block status moves.
Disguise will be used up if the Pokemon hurts itself due to confusion.
Weakness Policy will not activate if Disguise is activated when a Pokemon is hit by an attack.
When a Pokemon with Disguise is behind a Substitute and is hit by an attack the Substitute will take the damage and Disguise will not be used up.
Sound and Infiltrator moves don't bypass Disguise, but can bypass Substitute to break the Disguise.
Disguise does not prevent flinching from Fake Out or other secondary effects from moves whose damage it blocks. (You can still be burned by Scald for example)
Multi-hit moves like Water Shuriken deal damage after the first hit. Skill Link pokemon are very threatening to Mimikyu.
As long as you have a Mimikyu with a Red Card in reserve, your opponent can not perform a boosted sweep (Outside of Mold Breaker). Any attack will do zero damage and they will be forcefully removed from the battle as you can feel free to set up Swords Dance. Ghost and Fairy STABs have great coverage overall, and then Facade is insurance in case the enemy tries to burn you, or you can use priority if you fear faster enemies. Otherwise Life Orb is really needed to make up for Mimikyu's merely ok Atk stat and low BP moves.
Mimikyu forces switches. The combination of Substitute and Disguise can allow you to boost to absurd levels quite quickly, but also Substitute protect you from status effects which can still apply even with Disguise intact, as well as the secondary effects of attacks like Scald which, while won't do damage, can potentially still burn you. Air Balloon just adds an extra immunity to take advantage of.
Bulky Tank
Mimikyu @ Leftovers
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Df / 252 SpD
Nature Careful
- Bulk Up
- Play Rough
- Shadow Sneak/Shadow Claw/Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp/Thunder Wave/Leech Life
So with plenty of opportunities to sit in front of the enemy, you can start to Bulk Up to pretty good levels with Play Rough as your main STAB. Leech Life has been buffed to 80 BP so its a decent attack to regain HP combined with Leftovers. Your naturally good defensive typing and SpD suffice as you use Bulk Up and WoW to protect yourself on the physical side. Either Shadow Sneak or Thunder Wave are an option to address the speed issue.
Protect and Substitute combined can help you maintain your disguise as long as possible. In the meantime, use Status and Pain Split to do your damage, Play Rough in case of Taunt. If using Pain Split consider minimum HP and maxing the defenses for maximum HP differential.
Ability: Disguise - Once per battle, the shroud that covers the Pokémon can protect it from an attack. Base Stats - 55 HP / 90 Atk / 80 Def / 50 SAtk / 105 SDef / 96 Spe
Level Up
Wood Hammer
Splash
Scratch
Astonish
Copycat
Double Team
Baby-Doll Eyes
Shadow Sneak
Mimic
Feint Attack
Charm
Slash
Shadow Claw
Hone Claws
Play Rough
Pain Split
TMs
Work Up
Toxic
Bulk Up
Hidden Power
Taunt
Hyper Beam
Light Screen
Protect
Safeguard
Frustration
Thunderbolt
Thunder
Return
Leech Life
Psychic
Shadow Ball
Double Team
Facade
Rest
Attract
Thief
Round
Fling
Charge Beam
Will-O-Wisp
Embargo
Shadow Claw
Payback
Thunder Wave
Swords Dance
Psych Up
X-Scissor
Infestation
Dream Eater
Swagger
Sleep Talk
Substitute
Trick Room
Dark Pulse
Dazzling Gleam
Confide
Egg Moves
Grudge
Destiny Bond
Curse
Nightmare
Z-Moves
Breakneck Blitz
Savage Spin-Out
Never-Ending Nightmare
Bloom Doom
Gigavolt Havoc
Shattered Psyche
Black Hole Eclipse
Twinkle Tackle
Say Hello to the absolute safest switch-in in Pokemon history. Mimikyu is deceptive in more ways than just the obvious. Fantastic typing grant you a natural 3 immunities, meaning there are a plethora of attacks you can switch into and still maintain your Disguise on top of it. With additional methods of preserving your Disguise in the forms of moves like Substitute and Protect, it will make 55/80/105 defenses go much farther than they would on other pokemon. There are a few directions one could take Mimikyu in, both offensively as well as defensively.
Known Disguise Mechanics
Sunsteel Strike/Moongeist Beam ignore Disguise.
Disguise will not trigger on entry hazard damage or weather damage.
Disguise does not block status moves.
Disguise will be used up if the Pokemon hurts itself due to confusion.
Weakness Policy will not activate if Disguise is activated when a Pokemon is hit by an attack.
When a Pokemon with Disguise is behind a Substitute and is hit by an attack the Substitute will take the damage and Disguise will not be used up.
Sound and Infiltrator moves don't bypass Disguise, but can bypass Substitute to break the Disguise.
Disguise does not prevent flinching from Fake Out or other secondary effects from moves whose damage it blocks. (You can still be burned by Scald for example)
Multi-hit moves like Water Shuriken deal damage after the first hit. Skill Link pokemon are very threatening to Mimikyu.
As long as you have a Mimikyu with a Red Card in reserve, your opponent can not perform a boosted sweep (Outside of Mold Breaker). Any attack will do zero damage and they will be forcefully removed from the battle as you can feel free to set up Swords Dance. Ghost and Fairy STABs have great coverage overall, and then Facade is insurance in case the enemy tries to burn you, or you can use priority if you fear faster enemies. Otherwise Life Orb is really needed to make up for Mimikyu's merely ok Atk stat and low BP moves.
Mimikyu forces switches. The combination of Substitute and Disguise can allow you to boost to absurd levels quite quickly, but also Substitute protect you from status effects which can still apply even with Disguise intact, as well as the secondary effects of attacks like Scald which, while won't do damage, can potentially still burn you. Air Balloon just adds an extra immunity to take advantage of.
Bulky Tank
Mimikyu @ Leftovers
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Df / 252 SpD
Nature Careful
- Bulk Up
- Play Rough
- Shadow Sneak/Shadow Claw/Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp/Thunder Wave/Leech Life
So with plenty of opportunities to sit in front of the enemy, you can start to Bulk Up to pretty good levels with Play Rough as your main STAB. Leech Life has been buffed to 80 BP so its a decent attack to regain HP combined with Leftovers. Your naturally good defensive typing and SpD suffice as you use Bulk Up and WoW to protect yourself on the physical side. Either Shadow Sneak or Thunder Wave are an option to address the speed issue.
Protect and Substitute combined can help you maintain your disguise as long as possible. In the meantime, use Status and Pain Split to do your damage, Play Rough in case of Taunt. If using Pain Split consider minimum HP and maxing the defenses for maximum HP differential.
So is the consensus that Jolly is the best nature for a SD/sub set, or is Adamant also fine?
Also, with subs, I'm assuming you lose out on running shadow sneak. Is this worth it?
So is the consensus that Jolly is the best nature for a SD/sub set, or is Adamant also fine?
Also, with subs, I'm assuming you lose out on running shadow sneak. Is this worth it?
Well in this case outspeeding Tapu Lele kinda necessitates that benchmark that you should run a Jolly nature, there is also going to be Kyurem-Black. However, I suppose if you have the speed control / shadow sneak adamant would work but really it is all a it depends scenario of what works for your team specifically, but generally a +spe nature is the way to go.
Here is the Mimikyu set I have been using recently. It combines the trait of a sweeper and utility attacker to make Mimikyu a formidable threat. The Swords Dance set seems to be the most viable. When backed by a Life Orb Mimikyu can sweep weakened teams with ease. So anyways, onto the set...
Swords Dance allows Mimikyu to increases its pitiful attack stat, which allows it to break through lesser walls (that aren't used in OU). Play Rough is Mimikyu's STAB that is used to wall-break. Shadow Claw is preferred on lower tiers as Mimikyu will be able to out-speed things and appreciates the extra power. Shadow Sneak, on the other hand, will enable it to remedy its horrible speed, which might be more desirable on higher tiers like UU. The four move-slot is dependant on a team's requirement. Destiny Bond will allow Mimikyu to bring down a foe before it faints. This would be most effective on lower ladders as Mimikyu has the speed to pull it off (better chance in RU, compared to OU and UU tiers). Will-O-Wisp is great for crippling Mimikyu's counters, e.g. Toxapex. Toxic can be used to eat away at the defensive walls found in the lower tiers i.e. Alomomola, Seismitoad, etc.
Note: A full EV investment in attack is used to optimise Mimikyu's offensive capabilities. 248 speed is used to out-run neutral speed threats such as Kyruem-B and Mega Medicham. The rest is placed into HP to increase its bulk. On lesser tiers, Mimikyu may want to sacrifice its speed for more bulk.
That it for my set everyone. What do you think about it? Thank you ^^
Importable Set:
Mimikyu (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Swords Dance
- Play Rough
- Shadow Claw
- Destiny Bond
I think Anime Fan brings up a decent question, do you want Shadow Claw and Shadow Sneak or just Shadow Sneak?
Also can we please get a disclaimer about Swonds Dance LO being stronger than Z Splash in the SD set in the OP? Hopefully that will help tone down all of the Z Splash posts.
I see no practical reason to run 248 Spe and sacrifice a speed tie with Xurkitree. If you want 8 EVs for HP recoil purposes than just do 248 Atk instead.
I also don't see the benefit of sacrificing your most powerful Ghost STAB for a move like WoW or Toxic, especially since +2 Shadow Claw easily 2HKOs Ferrothorn anyway and Skarmory with SR even with Leftovers. Those two aren't exactly counters. Plus, you'll much prefer +2 Shadow Claw for things like Toxapex and Mega Venusaur, and +2 Play Rough is enough to kill max/max Hippowdon even without SR 77% of the time, and you'll want it for Marowak-A. You're indeed better off running both Ghost attacks for speed purposes as you mentioned. +2 Shadow Sneak safely OHKOs Latios for example. So that's my opinion. :)
Currently running a Mild Mimikyu (might switch to a speed boost one) with Normalium Z:
Shadow Sneak
Play Rough
Splash
X-Scissor/Shadow Claw
with really good success so far.
I understand that Z-Splash (+3 stages atk) is controversial vs. swords dance life orb, but I really like it. I may go SD/LO eventually. I've been running it with a Toxapex + Salazzle (flamethrower/toxic/substitute/sludge) and a Shell Smash Acrobatics Minior.
So I'm planning on running Adamant since I don't have a jolly. Would SD + Substitute be better, or would it be better to forgo subs for the 2 ghost attacks and play rough?
Instead of WoW I actually switched to T-Wave on mine. If you catch someone on the switch you can outspeed threats that usually beat you in speed, or you can get a lucky Para-Hax allowing you to squeeze in extra swords dances if they can't break the disguise. A lot of steel types that switch into this guy currently are special attackers due to the pre-bank pool of Pokemon (Flash Cannon Celesteela, Magnezone, Magearna) so I keep finding Will-O-Wisp to not help Mimikyu live longer like it should. It's a matter of preference though since Metagross and co are still huge threats that should be burned.
I see no practical reason to run 248 Spe and sacrifice a speed tie with Xurkitree. If you want 8 EVs for HP recoil purposes than just do 248 Atk instead.
I also don't see the benefit of sacrificing your most powerful Ghost STAB for a move like WoW or Toxic, especially since +2 Shadow Claw easily 2HKOs Ferrothorn anyway and Skarmory with SR even with Leftovers. Those two aren't exactly counters. Plus, you'll much prefer +2 Shadow Claw for things like Toxapex and Mega Venusaur, and +2 Play Rough is enough to kill max/max Hippowdon even without SR 77% of the time, and you'll want it for Marowak-A. You're indeed better off running both Ghost attacks for speed purposes as you mentioned. +2 Shadow Sneak safely OHKOs Latios for example. So that's my opinion. :)
WoW is actually very good on mimikyu, letting you lure threats like lando-t and scizor, and reducing the longevity of bulky mons in general. However Anime_Fan you're better off running 252 speed for the tie with other mimikyu, and 29 hp ivs to hit a LO number.
How would this set fare? I haven't tried it out and I'm not confident in my own judgement here, but it seems viable.
Vampiric Tank
Mimikyu @ Leftovers
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 Att / 252 Df / 4 Spe
Nature Careful
- Bulk Up
- Pain Split
- Play Rough
- Shadow Sneak/Shadow Claw/Substitute
Kind of a mishmash of other sets I saw, but trying to take advantage of both the set-up bulk potential and Pain Split. I can see it being too frail without a sub, and spread thin with one. Thoughts?
I think that the only problems this thing faces are fast Dark and Normal types, Multi Hit moves (especially high attack power mons like Toucannon) and Mold Breaker sweepers.
How would this set fare? I haven't tried it out and I'm not confident in my own judgement here, but it seems viable.
Vampiric Tank
Mimikyu @ Leftovers
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 Att / 252 Df / 4 Spe
Nature Careful
- Bulk Up
- Pain Split
- Play Rough
- Shadow Sneak/Shadow Claw/Substitute
Kind of a mishmash of other sets I saw, but trying to take advantage of both the set-up bulk potential and Pain Split. I can see it being too frail without a sub, and spread thin with one. Thoughts?
I'm not the best when it comes to EV spreads but I feel like the 252 in Def might be better invested elsewhere like HP maybe. Like I said, not the best so correct me if I'm mistaken.
I'm not the best when it comes to EV spreads but I feel like the 252 in Def might be better invested elsewhere like HP maybe. Like I said, not the best so correct me if I'm mistaken.
I see no practical reason to run 248 Spe and sacrifice a speed tie with Xurkitree. If you want 8 EVs for HP recoil purposes than just do 248 Atk instead.
I also don't see the benefit of sacrificing your most powerful Ghost STAB for a move like WoW or Toxic, especially since +2 Shadow Claw easily 2HKOs Ferrothorn anyway and Skarmory with SR even with Leftovers. Those two aren't exactly counters. Plus, you'll much prefer +2 Shadow Claw for things like Toxapex and Mega Venusaur, and +2 Play Rough is enough to kill max/max Hippowdon even without SR 77% of the time, and you'll want it for Marowak-A. You're indeed better off running both Ghost attacks for speed purposes as you mentioned. +2 Shadow Sneak safely OHKOs Latios for example. So that's my opinion. :)
You make a very good point in increasing its speed, that said, it speed may go down in lesser tiers (because I doubt it's going to do well in OU lol). But you're right, for now running 252 EVs in speed seems to be the better option mhm ^^
As for switching replacing utility for more power, I'm not so sure on that. The thing is Mimikyu is a very weak Pokemon even with a SD boost. So I figured that adding utility in Will-O-Wisp, Toxic, or Destiny Bond would at least give the opponent something to worry about. Plus, Mimikyu is a ghost-type Pokemon after all, and all ghosts should be scary ^^
Best reasoning of the year award? Face palm? ...nvm.
;-;
P.S. I've edited the speed. Thanks a tonne Jaroda ^^
I used Mimikyu a bit and I think this set would work pretty well.
Mimikyu @ Lum Berry / Weakness Policy / Life Orb
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Claw
- Play Rough
- Leech Life
Edit: On second thought Leech Life should probably be slashed with Shadow Sneak, Destiny Bond, WoW, Taunt, or Wood Hammer. The coverage it offers is just too insufficient.
Jolly nature to maximize speed. Swords Dance to increase attack drastically, Shadow Claw for STAB and power, Play Rough for STAB and power and Leech Life for some additional coverage and recovery. The reason I recommend Shadow Claw over Shadow Sneak is because while priority is useful at times, power may be even more useful. Fairy and Bug is not an impressive combination as far as type coverage goes, and there are 139 Pokemon who resist this combo including Toxapex, Aegislash, Gengar, Skarmory, Heatran and plenty others. Shadow Claw has nearly double the power of Sneak and thus gives you enough power to leave a dent on these mons. As for the item Lum Berry can protect Mimikyu from WoW, and other status moves that nearly render it useless. Weakness Policy works pretty well with Disguise so it's an obvious option as well, and finally we have LO which provides power and isn't dependent on the opponent's move options.
WoW is actually very good on mimikyu, letting you lure threats like lando-t and scizor, and reducing the longevity of bulky mons in general. However Anime_Fan you're better off running 252 speed for the tie with other mimikyu, and 29 hp ivs to hit a LO number.
P.S. I couldn't agree more on running Will-O-Wisp on Mimikyu. It's very helpful in crippling switch-ins, which tends to deter the foe from switching in the appropriate wall or check. This in turn makes the role of setting up easier for Mimikyu ^^
Weakness Policy will not activate if disguise is still intact, also i don't think leech life is a good idea, the recovery seems all fine and dandy until you realize that bug is a horrible offensive type especially when mimikyu doesn't get stab from it, and also you have to forfeit priority in shadow sneak, coverage in wood hammer (or bloom doom if you will), or utility moves, it just not worth it
