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Ladder Mix and Mega
- Thread starter Imperator Romanum
- Start date
I would argue Salamencite and Gardevoirite are probably better placed as B (The lack of adding their relevant type makes them less widely useful, but this can be a good thing if you'd prefer to preserve the Pokémon's type for some reason -if you want to hold onto Noivern's Dragon typing, Salamencite is the way to go for Aerilate Boomburst), Alakazite is probably D (Trace is surprisingly awful as a Mega Stone Ability, on top of Alakazite providing 10 less stat points than every other Mega Stone), Mewtwonite Y, the Lati Stones and Steelixite, Heracronite, and Galladite I'd probably place at C (Insomnia is questionable as an Ability and other than that Mewtwonite Y is just stats... and stealing from a relevant stat in the process. The Lati Stones are great for anything that wants Levitate and meh for anything that doesn't, while Steelixite is dependent on your team being Sand to be appealing [actually, why is it being placed higher than Swampertite? 30% more damage to moves of three specific types is much less general than doubled Speed], Heracronite is awful if you lack Skill Linkable moves, and Inner Focus on Galladite is largely irrelevant), but overall I think this is solid, and helps provide some perspective on what kinds of competition within a team you're looking at -7 S rank Stones means that the C rank Stones are going to be difficult to justify fitting into a team if they don't produce an amazing result on the intended Pokémon!
InfernapeTropius11
get on my level
I think that Blastoisinite could probably go up to B Rank, as I think it fits that description very well. Its amazing on Hydreigon and Lucario, and other Dragon-types, Dark-types, or Fighting-types can use it to boost their STABs as well. While it doesn't boost speed, it grants +50 SpA and Mega Launcher, turning the majority of these Pokemon into wallbreakers, and they excel at this role. So yeah, I think Blastoisinite can go up to B Rank simply because it gives certain Pokemon the ability to manhandle walls.
Alright, made the changes you guys asked for.
My reasoning for certain rankings is that i'm not basing viability purely on abilities, but also on stats. both galladeite and steelixite provide very solid stat boosts, so I had them ranked in B.
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
And the fact that it doesn't require you to switch in on toxic to get max damage.
Blue Orb should be moved to A because its used on less mons than it would be otherwise. What is metagame defining with blue orb anyways? Its an okay general choice, but it is nothing like the -ates and those types of stones, and I really don't think primordial sea is a reason to have it so high.
Why is venasaurite so high? Just curious...it adds a ton of bulk but doesn't really do that much that sablenite, slowbronite, or a bunch of other stones don't do better or as well.
Charizardite X for A rank. While it doesn't add speed like aero does, the attack and defense boosts are huge, and its a very powerful mega stone with +46 and tough claws. mons with a lot of contact moves absolutely love it because of the immense power and bulk it provides.
Salamencite for A rank. This is actually better than pinsirite on many mons because of the bulk it provides, and on teams already using pinsirite is certainly not a disappointing choice. +50 in defense is huge, and it provides a nifty SPA boost as well, being good for bulky, mixed attackers.
This post has taken me basically all day, so sorry if I'm just repeating what a lot of others have said. I've been really busy.
Also, I don't completely agree with your rankings for some stones. Mostly some of the C-rank ones. Sharpedonite is very good for multiple dark types whose strongest stab is crunch. The best example is tyranitar- it gives it the power that it wants AS WELL AS the speed that it needs. Mega tyranitar has to choose between the two usually. Gardevoirite and salamencite should be higher- I don't think any ate stone should be a C really, especially if glailitite is a B. They don't waste as much in the off-stat, as salamencite only adds 10 to each, and Gardevoirite only dumps 20 into attack.
I also feel audinite, galladite, and garchompite do not deserve a B. Audinite, while giving awesome stats and fairy typing, gives the most useless ability ever. Galladite is the same way, except it doesn't change your type, and inner focus is only SLIGHTLY more useful. Garchompite lowers speed, which is not awesome, especially when steelixite gives just as much Atk and doesn't lower speed. There are instances, like some mixed wall breakers, that would appreciate garchompite's SpA boost, but overall, especially considering how few special rock, ground, and steel type moves there are, I'd say it is almost completely outclassed. I'd put all of these at C, as they all have numerous possitive traits, but some serious negative ones. Heracronite as well: it is awesome for some stuff, but very few can effectively utilize it well enough to make it worthwhile. Cloyster could redeem itself w/ it, mamo hits really freaking hard, there's always still heracross, and I guess breloom, possibly, but that seems kinda redundant to me. Cloyster is the only one that really sounds incredible. Lol...Imagine if it had water shuriken... O.o
I know you're kinda partial to cameruptite, thdhted, but i really don't think it deserves an A. The biggest perk of sheer force is the lack of life orb damage, but you can't use life orb at all. It does make some stuff really powerful, but at the cost of a LOT of speed. Which is not awesome. It can work for some stuff, especially stuff w/ trick room, but overall id say it's inferior to a lot of stuff. Special attackers can utilize pidgeotite for a bit less power but perfect accuracy (which i love because i swear, I have the worst luck), blastoisinite depending on the mon, lucarionite for almost as much power (just for the stabs), and tons of other options that sacrifice power but give a lot of other abilities and stuff that make them the greatly superior option in the end. I could see it working on something that's already really fast, like jolteon or something. But overall, I'd say it's suboptimal.
Lol, I don't know what to think about Diancite. It's crazy powerful and it makes you stupid fast, but those defense drops are insane. It works super well on somethings, but it's just to risky for a lot of others. Interestingly enough, cresselia could actually be quite good w/ it. I swear there's no end to the options it can use- but that's off topic. On the one hand, I think it is terrifying with some stuff, but it's absolutely suicide w/ so many things. Basically, whatever you choose to use it on needs to either, A., be a steel type, B., have already substantial bulk, or C., know Espeed, otherwise it will get forced out way too easily, especially by ate-speed mons. So I guess A fits, you just have to be choosey about what you use it with. That's why I really like it on heatran.
I'm not sure if lucarionite should be S. It is VERY good on a lot of stuff, and it's not like the ate-stones where it's decent on most stuff, really weird but good on some, and incredible on a select few, rather, it's a good option for most offensive mons that really like their stab combo. This sounds like it should make it easily S, but the thing is, there are better options for MOST, since it dumps quite a bit into the off-stat, whether you go special or physical. On the physical side, ground, rock, and ice types like it best, but other ones would usually rather Aerodactylite for the substantially more efficient spread of boosts and essentially the same power, but to more moves. Specially, pidgeotite and absolite are almost always better. The latter lacks power, but gives far more speed as well as magic bounce, and as for pidgeotite, most powerful special moves have relatively low accuracy, thus it effectively increases your overall power by letting you land more powerful attacks. I would say it's probably an A rank stone, however, I'd say it's most accurately an S- or an A+, but that's too much subdivision. However, if you disagree, I honestly don't feel that strongly about it.
I'd move Metagrossite up to A as well. Metagrossite gives a LOT of speed, and enough power for some already powerful stuff to do some serious damage. For example, it turns DD Tyranitar into a serious powerhouse, it is great for already fast stuff like weavile for scarf-like speed, but without compromising in terms of power. With a positive nature, Metagrossite Weavile is able to reach 471 Spe, which is totally enough to land a lot of clutch revenge kills. Scarfers are going to be kinda hard to find, and this is about as good as they come. And you aren't locked in, so you won't kill momentum.
Both Zard-ites i feel should move up to A as well. Zardite X provides dragon typing, which everyone knows can be awesome, depending on your base typing. It doesn't give any speed, unfortunately, but it increases Atk by a ridiculous amount and actually gives you a solid +33 Def. This makes it quite easy to set up most of the time, then you can proceed to absolutely destroy stuff. It makes Feraligatr, for example, into an absolute terror. Zardite Y is definitely outclassed by red orb in most cases, however, it has a few traits that make it preferable on select teams. First of all, the most obvious trait it has going for it is the greater investment in bulk and decreased Atk for special wallbreakers, however, it's actually far more important to note the ability to support your team w/ sun. Also, it doesn't change typing, which is occassionally useful as well. Not to mention, it's honestly a really good option in general, it's just that it's usually outclassed by red orb. Also, you could even run them together if you wanted- it'd be awesome to play some sort of fire-type version of birdspam.
Other than that, I think I'd agree for the most part. Nice job bud!
They are definitely viable, however, I think it's really only Ubers that would be any good in that role, for the most part. I mean, you could run Ttar w/o a stone w/ excadrill, just like in BW, and obviously there's some stuff that's viable (banded scizor's apparently quite the force in Ubers, for example)
Florges however has instant recovery and actually does have nature power for ate shenanigans. Unfortunately, unlike metagamiate, you can't have prankster as well as an ate-ability, because that's a pretty cool combo. And it actually has a TINY bit more fire power and quite a lot more speed. Sylveon is pitifully slow, and the I don't actually think there's THAT much difference in physical bulk. It does have a smaller movepool, but it also gets solarbeam which is sweet w/ red orb (also synthesis, again. 75% recovery in one turn is no joke.), or giga drain for even greater recovery, etc.. Again, not an amazing mon, but it's got some unique options that really set it apart.
Also, I don't completely agree with your rankings for some stones. Mostly some of the C-rank ones. Sharpedonite is very good for multiple dark types whose strongest stab is crunch. The best example is tyranitar- it gives it the power that it wants AS WELL AS the speed that it needs. Mega tyranitar has to choose between the two usually. Gardevoirite and salamencite should be higher- I don't think any ate stone should be a C really, especially if glailitite is a B. They don't waste as much in the off-stat, as salamencite only adds 10 to each, and Gardevoirite only dumps 20 into attack.
I also feel audinite, galladite, and garchompite do not deserve a B. Audinite, while giving awesome stats and fairy typing, gives the most useless ability ever. Galladite is the same way, except it doesn't change your type, and inner focus is only SLIGHTLY more useful. Garchompite lowers speed, which is not awesome, especially when steelixite gives just as much Atk and doesn't lower speed. There are instances, like some mixed wall breakers, that would appreciate garchompite's SpA boost, but overall, especially considering how few special rock, ground, and steel type moves there are, I'd say it is almost completely outclassed. I'd put all of these at C, as they all have numerous possitive traits, but some serious negative ones. Heracronite as well: it is awesome for some stuff, but very few can effectively utilize it well enough to make it worthwhile. Cloyster could redeem itself w/ it, mamo hits really freaking hard, there's always still heracross, and I guess breloom, possibly, but that seems kinda redundant to me. Cloyster is the only one that really sounds incredible. Lol...Imagine if it had water shuriken... O.o
I know you're kinda partial to cameruptite, thdhted, but i really don't think it deserves an A. The biggest perk of sheer force is the lack of life orb damage, but you can't use life orb at all. It does make some stuff really powerful, but at the cost of a LOT of speed. Which is not awesome. It can work for some stuff, especially stuff w/ trick room, but overall id say it's inferior to a lot of stuff. Special attackers can utilize pidgeotite for a bit less power but perfect accuracy (which i love because i swear, I have the worst luck), blastoisinite depending on the mon, lucarionite for almost as much power (just for the stabs), and tons of other options that sacrifice power but give a lot of other abilities and stuff that make them the greatly superior option in the end. I could see it working on something that's already really fast, like jolteon or something. But overall, I'd say it's suboptimal.
Lol, I don't know what to think about Diancite. It's crazy powerful and it makes you stupid fast, but those defense drops are insane. It works super well on somethings, but it's just to risky for a lot of others. Interestingly enough, cresselia could actually be quite good w/ it. I swear there's no end to the options it can use- but that's off topic. On the one hand, I think it is terrifying with some stuff, but it's absolutely suicide w/ so many things. Basically, whatever you choose to use it on needs to either, A., be a steel type, B., have already substantial bulk, or C., know Espeed, otherwise it will get forced out way too easily, especially by ate-speed mons. So I guess A fits, you just have to be choosey about what you use it with. That's why I really like it on heatran.
I'm not sure if lucarionite should be S. It is VERY good on a lot of stuff, and it's not like the ate-stones where it's decent on most stuff, really weird but good on some, and incredible on a select few, rather, it's a good option for most offensive mons that really like their stab combo. This sounds like it should make it easily S, but the thing is, there are better options for MOST, since it dumps quite a bit into the off-stat, whether you go special or physical. On the physical side, ground, rock, and ice types like it best, but other ones would usually rather Aerodactylite for the substantially more efficient spread of boosts and essentially the same power, but to more moves. Specially, pidgeotite and absolite are almost always better. The latter lacks power, but gives far more speed as well as magic bounce, and as for pidgeotite, most powerful special moves have relatively low accuracy, thus it effectively increases your overall power by letting you land more powerful attacks. I would say it's probably an A rank stone, however, I'd say it's most accurately an S- or an A+, but that's too much subdivision. However, if you disagree, I honestly don't feel that strongly about it.
I'd move Metagrossite up to A as well. Metagrossite gives a LOT of speed, and enough power for some already powerful stuff to do some serious damage. For example, it turns DD Tyranitar into a serious powerhouse, it is great for already fast stuff like weavile for scarf-like speed, but without compromising in terms of power. With a positive nature, Metagrossite Weavile is able to reach 471 Spe, which is totally enough to land a lot of clutch revenge kills. Scarfers are going to be kinda hard to find, and this is about as good as they come. And you aren't locked in, so you won't kill momentum.
Both Zard-ites i feel should move up to A as well. Zardite X provides dragon typing, which everyone knows can be awesome, depending on your base typing. It doesn't give any speed, unfortunately, but it increases Atk by a ridiculous amount and actually gives you a solid +33 Def. This makes it quite easy to set up most of the time, then you can proceed to absolutely destroy stuff. It makes Feraligatr, for example, into an absolute terror. Zardite Y is definitely outclassed by red orb in most cases, however, it has a few traits that make it preferable on select teams. First of all, the most obvious trait it has going for it is the greater investment in bulk and decreased Atk for special wallbreakers, however, it's actually far more important to note the ability to support your team w/ sun. Also, it doesn't change typing, which is occassionally useful as well. Not to mention, it's honestly a really good option in general, it's just that it's usually outclassed by red orb. Also, you could even run them together if you wanted- it'd be awesome to play some sort of fire-type version of birdspam.
Other than that, I think I'd agree for the most part. Nice job bud!
Okay, edited again. however Cameruptite is staying right where it is. Why? Because alongside sheer force it also grants an EXCELLENT +30 to both defenses. Also, sheer force falls into the category of "more moves get a boost" so stuff that has a large movepool can use it very effectively, and stuff that already has good bulk can turn into a terrifying tanky tank-see kyurem.
Galladeite has been moved to C-rank.
Audinite, while granting a worthless ability, also grants massive +40 defense boosts, a stellar defensive typing, and doesn't drop your speed. also can be used if sablenite slot is taken.
Garchompite was a bit tricky, while it DOES drop your speed, it also makes for some deadly mixed attackers and decent tanks. If sand happens to be around, then all the better. As I said, stat gains were factored along with the ability gains.
xJownage I put venusaurite there because Thick Fat is just that amazing of an ability. Alongside great defense boosts, thick fat allows anything that wants to be a wall gain a free resist/neutrality to fire and ice, both good and reasonably common attacking types.
Galladeite has been moved to C-rank.
Audinite, while granting a worthless ability, also grants massive +40 defense boosts, a stellar defensive typing, and doesn't drop your speed. also can be used if sablenite slot is taken.
Garchompite was a bit tricky, while it DOES drop your speed, it also makes for some deadly mixed attackers and decent tanks. If sand happens to be around, then all the better. As I said, stat gains were factored along with the ability gains.
xJownage I put venusaurite there because Thick Fat is just that amazing of an ability. Alongside great defense boosts, thick fat allows anything that wants to be a wall gain a free resist/neutrality to fire and ice, both good and reasonably common attacking types.
Sorry for the double post, but I had meant to respond to this earlier.
then it bops you back with psychic for super effective damage and deals, if not enough to kill you, seriously significant damage. Then anything can pick you off. Also, Hera is crazy weak to 2 of 3 of the ate-speed types, so it's easy to force out.
Kyurem is probably one of the best cameruptite abusers, due to its already substantial bulk and crazy power, but I still think A is too high. I could be convinced of B, but not A. The bulk is great, I will say that though.
Audinite is incredible in a lot of ways, but I'm just not sure if it should be quite as high as it is, but meh.
Garchompite I'd say should be lower because it is just outclassed by steelixite in almost every situation, as it doesn't lower speed and steel, rock, and ground special moves are uncommon to say the least. It deserves a rank to be sure, but it is ALMOST directly outclassed by steelixite. That's why I was saying C; it's certainly not TERRIBLE, but it's not very good in most cases.
I think you guys are undervaluing Alakazite. Even though it's only a +90 BST increase, the boosts themselves are allocated efficiently. If you're going to say that it sucks because it gets 10 less BST, then you should also trash stuff like Gardevoirite, Scizorite, Charizard stones etc. for giving boosts in useless stats. Not trying to say it's great or even good though. It's outclassed by Manectite in most cases but Trace is actually not too bad since there are fewer shit-tier abilities being used.
I wouldn't say latiasite is terrible- it doesn't give any huge boosts, but it doesn't waste a whole lot, actually. It's actually very good both because of levitate and because of the boosts it gives.
Also, Im not sure if this is what you mean, but I feel that the S rank may be overcrowded. It is going to be hard to justify some lower rank stones.
I just had a thought, thdhted, this isn't something for you to attempt to do, rather something that people would have to submit to you to edit it in, but it could actually be a really good idea to rate each stone in three areas: overall effectiveness, versatility, and relative worth, kinda like they have in BH. So for example, Altarianite, an S ranked stone would be something like, on a scale of 1-10, Effectiveness: 9.0-10.0, Versatility: like 4.0, and Relative worth: 10.0. What this means, roughly, is that it's incredibly effective, but not just something you can slap on just anything and make it better; only some things will really like it at all. However, it is, in many ways, completely unreplaceable, as nothing else gives both significant Attack, Fairy typing, and Pixilate, or even any two of those together. Thus its relative worth is incredible. Just a thought.
Also, I found something that can bop cresselia super hard.
Tyranitar @ Sharpedonite
Ability: Sand Stream
Jolly Nature
EVs: 252 Atk / 36 SpD / 220 Spe
Dragon Dance
Crunch
Stone Edge
Earthquake/Ice Punch
At +2, Sharpedonite Ttar has a guaranteed ohko against cress, and at +1, cress can only deal up to 38%. Meaning, you can switch in while their cress uses CM, boost as they moonblast, boost again, tank another moonblast, then crunch and they're dead. At that point, if they lack an Pixispeeder or something that has 527 speed, they basically lose. I mean, maybe a strong different Ate-speed could do it, but idk.
Well, the question is more if the stats they provide are sufficiently different from other Mega Stones with more widely useful Abilities that you're willing to take Galladite or Steelixite just for the statline. Galladite is fairly similar to Lopunnite -same Speed boost, a smaller Attack boost, albeit a better Defense boost- but Lopunnite provides Scrappy and Fighting as a type (Which, mind, is not always a good thing), can often be compared unfavorably to Metagrossite (As Tough Claws will more than make up the difference in Attack gain if leaning on contact moves), and even has some overlap with Pinsirite!
Steelixite is a bit better off, since Cameruptite and Aggronite are the only Mega Stones with vaguely comparable statlines (Solid Attack increase along with both defenses going up a decent amount), and Cameruptite kills Speed while Aggronite may be unappealing if you don't want a Steel typing for some reason.
But overall the two of them are badly held back by the fact that they're just stats, and nothing super-unique. I didn't dispute Audinite because it has the notable niche of being a defensive Mega Stone that adds the Fairy typing, so even though Healer is useless there's potentially a niche for Audinite regardless, one that no other Mega Stone can fill. This is unlikely to be true of Galladite and Steelixite.
There's very few Fighting types that even get Aura Sphere. Blastoisinite Fighting type basically means Lucario or maybe Mienshao.
Dark types are mostly Physically oriented, though the exceptions are worth commentary.
Dragon types... are also mostly Physically oriented. And they all get Draco Meteor if they want a Special Dragon nuke.
Honestly, Blastoisinite is really really narrow. I agree there's a few Pokémon that have potential with it, like Hydreigon, but it's really specialized, in practice.
The BST point is just adding insult to injury, in all honesty. As an avid user of Gardevoir in all tiers, I'm fully aware of the value of Trace, and the problem is that the situations Trace is valuable in largely will not occur in Mix and Mega.
There is no type immunity Ability beyond Levitate and Primordial Sea/Desolate Land available to Mega Stones. Even if there were, where in standard play water immunity is found on Water types (Switch in on Vaporeon, heal 25% health off Scald), in Mix and Mega it's far more likely that an immunity will be given to a Pokémon who gets the most benefit out of the immunity -not a Pokémon that is most likely to use moves that the Ability provides immunity to!
Nobody is going to be using Shedinja, and even if they were it wouldn't be worth eating a slot just for the possibility of getting yourself a nigh-invulnerable Sableye or whatever. Trace is valuable on Gardevoir in Standard because there's not really any reason to run a different Ability on it. Here there's plenty of more reliable choices.
In practice, Trace will basically only be good for two things:
-Stealing one of the restricted Abilities for a Pokémon that can't take the relevant Mega Stone. (Huge Power, Speed Boost, etc) This is a questionable use of a slot, even if you take it as a given that every match will involve one of the restricted Abilities. Tracing Parental Bond is about the only effect that has the potential to not only be solid but in particular stack well with Alakazite's own leanings. (Pure Power shifts you Physical, Alakazite leans Special, meaning planning for Tracing Pure Power is kind of dumb)
-Stealing Magic Bounce from certain stall builds, incidentally blocking their hazards/Toxic/whatever. (Arguably you should just use Absolite if you want a fast, Specially oriented Magic Bouncer, though)
If you want to get really gambly, there's some really dumb things you could do with your opponent's cooperation, such as engineering Sturdinja, but as far as actual competitive play Trace is going to be really meh in Mix and Mega.
And that is why I think Alakazite is lame.
That, and comparing it to Absolite the only functional advantage it has for a fast Special attacker is 20 points of Defense. If you want to assume Confusion is relevant, I guess having 20 less Attack is also good. Otherwise Absolite is the same Special Attack boost, a bigger Speed boost, and an actually useful, reliable Ability.
Levitate is nice for specific Pokémon, but merely OK for most, and redundant for Flying types. They're also somewhat wasteful of stats, particularly Latiosite. Other Abilities tend to be more dramatically beneficial, and there are other Mega Stones with more optimal distributions of stats... or both.
But for Pokémon like Heatran, yeah, a Lati Mega Stone can be awesome.
I meant that it's informative of the kinds of pressures on teambuilding going on. There's more than enough S-ranked Mega Stones to outfit an entire team (Or just enough, if you discount Lucarionite as S-ranked), which places a lot of pressure on lower ranking Mega Stones. You are unlikely to just slap something decent onto a decent Pokémon for your last slot, because even if 5 of your slots are S-rank Mega Stones you still have another S-rank Mega Stone to slap onto something decent and call it a day!
MaestroDeSWAG , seems like a pretty good idea, and i'll do some work on it as soon as I can. Actually, if you'd like to help, i'd be glad for someone else to help me with that.
InfernapeTropius11
get on my level
I wouldn't mind helping out either if you'd like
I had an idea... don't know how good it is, but an idea nonetheless... is there anything bulky that can use Lopunnite to combine Scrappy with Super Fang and Seismic Toss, hopefully with a recovery move? I was thinking Mew -- Psychic/Fighting isn't too bad a typing (only three weaknesses), and both the latter moves are in its moveset... with this set-up, it could perhaps go full bulk.
thdhted, Yeah, I'd love to. I'll make a PM w/ you and InfernapeTropius11 to get it rolling.
Anyways, so this post is relevant- I'm gonna go through some NU stuff that could be threats.
Archeops
Obvious choice- it doesn't have any boosting otptions, thus limiting its sweeping potential, but it can work VERY well as just a straight up hit and run mon, smacking stuff w/ aerilate boosted returns as well as quick attack and even thrash coming off of 170 Atk and 140 Spe. It also has 122 SpA to lure stuff and smack them in the face. Plus it can create momentum w/ U-Turn. And it turns out that it also gets defogand stealth rock- probably not amazing by any means, but if you wanted really fast hazard control that can create momentum or just create offensive pressure as well, it could work. Headsmash is a fun little toy as well.
Carracosta and barbacle could actually be quite good too. They both have flaws, namely speed for carracosta, and lack of TC boosted moves for barbacle, these can be fixed by different stones- for example, lucarionite for barbacle, and Metagrossite for carracosta. They probably aren't the best choices for the most part, but it'd be fun to run an NU Pokemon just for swag.
Gogoat could be cool w/ banettite, and actually, any physical grass type could use swampertite for a great option for rain teams. They'd check grass and electric types that their water type amigos hate, while also hitting bulky waters that tend to wall rain teams over all. Also, aside from resisting them, it has sap sipper to help it further.
That reminds me, swampertite is actually an incredible stone for the ability to put tons of weird mons that usually wouldn't benefit greatly from rain on a rain team and fill in any hole you may have. Like the above example.
Ghoul King, not to dig up old trash, but Aggronite- how would it treat other rock and steel types? It doesn't add secondary steel typing to Aggron, so should it to them, or should it make them pure steel?
Klingklang, as someone mentioned quite a while ago, is pretty dang cool w/ Altarianite. Steel/Fairy is an incredible typing, and it's already got a lot going for it.
Once my computers running again, expect me to run an all NU mons team and freaking destroy y'all in the next tourney. Just you wait and see... Lawl. Anyways, seriously, some of these look pretty fun. And actually decent
Anyways, so this post is relevant- I'm gonna go through some NU stuff that could be threats.
Archeops
Obvious choice- it doesn't have any boosting otptions, thus limiting its sweeping potential, but it can work VERY well as just a straight up hit and run mon, smacking stuff w/ aerilate boosted returns as well as quick attack and even thrash coming off of 170 Atk and 140 Spe. It also has 122 SpA to lure stuff and smack them in the face. Plus it can create momentum w/ U-Turn. And it turns out that it also gets defogand stealth rock- probably not amazing by any means, but if you wanted really fast hazard control that can create momentum or just create offensive pressure as well, it could work. Headsmash is a fun little toy as well.
Carracosta and barbacle could actually be quite good too. They both have flaws, namely speed for carracosta, and lack of TC boosted moves for barbacle, these can be fixed by different stones- for example, lucarionite for barbacle, and Metagrossite for carracosta. They probably aren't the best choices for the most part, but it'd be fun to run an NU Pokemon just for swag.
Gogoat could be cool w/ banettite, and actually, any physical grass type could use swampertite for a great option for rain teams. They'd check grass and electric types that their water type amigos hate, while also hitting bulky waters that tend to wall rain teams over all. Also, aside from resisting them, it has sap sipper to help it further.
That reminds me, swampertite is actually an incredible stone for the ability to put tons of weird mons that usually wouldn't benefit greatly from rain on a rain team and fill in any hole you may have. Like the above example.
Ghoul King, not to dig up old trash, but Aggronite- how would it treat other rock and steel types? It doesn't add secondary steel typing to Aggron, so should it to them, or should it make them pure steel?
Klingklang, as someone mentioned quite a while ago, is pretty dang cool w/ Altarianite. Steel/Fairy is an incredible typing, and it's already got a lot going for it.
Once my computers running again, expect me to run an all NU mons team and freaking destroy y'all in the next tourney. Just you wait and see... Lawl. Anyways, seriously, some of these look pretty fun. And actually decent
MaestroDeSWAG
Probopass, Shieldon, and Bastiodon, with Steel as a secondary typing, would remain Rock/Steel.
Aggron line is the only Steel primary, but if there were others, they would also be pure Steel.
It's like how Garchomp w/ Charizardite X would be pure Dragon, but Flygon w/ Charizardite X would retain its Ground typing.
Correct me if I'm wrong Ghoul King .
Probopass, Shieldon, and Bastiodon, with Steel as a secondary typing, would remain Rock/Steel.
Aggron line is the only Steel primary, but if there were others, they would also be pure Steel.
It's like how Garchomp w/ Charizardite X would be pure Dragon, but Flygon w/ Charizardite X would retain its Ground typing.
Correct me if I'm wrong Ghoul King .
Aah, I believe you're right, the strategy dex had aggrons typing flipped.
That would be because the strategy dex doesn't give a crap about which typing is primary or secondary, since it doesn't matter except in some OMs, and is stupid and lists it in alphabetical order.
Incorrect! If either type is Steel, you get a pure Steel type. This is how all the Mega Stones that add a secondary type work -they overwrite the secondary type, unless either of the Pokémon's types is already the added type, in which case it becomes a pure version of the type the Stone is trying to add.
(Albeit I've noticed some inconsistency in this behavior in replays -some Red Orb Fire types quite clearly have retained their other typing. On the other hand, Snaquaza hasn't uploaded the updated code yet, to the best of my awareness, either)
Mew is it, actually, even if you are willing to replace Seismic Toss with Night Shade. Could be an interesting build.
Please note that the council is now voting on the Cresselia suspect. Results should be announced within a day. If anyone would like to throw in last-minute opinions, now's the time.
Actually, the best option, and this is banned, fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on how you choose to look at it), is mew w/ khangaskhanite. It is able to 2hko literally anything w/ less than 801 HP, well, and that isn't a ghost type (or, if you're running nightshade, normal type) and it would require 0 Atk investment. Then just run max HP and speed w/ substitute and roost and it's basically GG after you get a sub up and get any ghost types out of the picture.
InfernapeTropius11
get on my level
Cresselia: DON'T BAN
Tbh, stall is kinda lacking in Mix and Mega imo. While there are viable stall mons, there aren't many good stall stones, which really hinders stall's viability as a playstyle. I mean, Sablenite, Audinite, Aggronite, Slowbronite, Venusaurite are all good or pretty good, and then what, Salamencite? Houndoomite, Scizorite, Cameruptite, Heracronite, Abomasite? These stones are all second class, having bad stall abilities and wasting too much in offenses and speed for stall (although Audinite gives a shitty ability too, and Thick Fat is only good on some Pokemon). Stall is very limited right now imho, and Cresselia is one of the pieces that makes stall somewhat viable. However, I would be with a ban if it was impossible to break, BUT THIS IS NOT THE CASE. Pigeotite Gengar, Lucarionite Tyranitar, Charizardite X Landorus-Therian, Metagrossite Heracross, Blastoisinite Hydreigon, Gengarite Gengar, Red Orb Victini, Ampharosite Mew, traditional stallbreakers using Gyaradosite/Ampharosite, and more that I've forgotten I'm sure, can all severely dent, cripple, or eliminate Cresselia. So basically, my opinion is that stall is very limited in Mix and Mega, and Cresselia is one of its saving graces, and it is NOT unbeatable, and even though some ways to beat it may be gimmickier, every good balance or offense team should be packing AT LEAST one of them imo (I have 3 on the team I'm making rn iirc, and stall I have no experience with but they have their own Cress lol). There are ways to beat Cresselia, and it is just another top-tier Pokemon to prepare for (all metas have them).
Tbh, stall is kinda lacking in Mix and Mega imo. While there are viable stall mons, there aren't many good stall stones, which really hinders stall's viability as a playstyle. I mean, Sablenite, Audinite, Aggronite, Slowbronite, Venusaurite are all good or pretty good, and then what, Salamencite? Houndoomite, Scizorite, Cameruptite, Heracronite, Abomasite? These stones are all second class, having bad stall abilities and wasting too much in offenses and speed for stall (although Audinite gives a shitty ability too, and Thick Fat is only good on some Pokemon). Stall is very limited right now imho, and Cresselia is one of the pieces that makes stall somewhat viable. However, I would be with a ban if it was impossible to break, BUT THIS IS NOT THE CASE. Pigeotite Gengar, Lucarionite Tyranitar, Charizardite X Landorus-Therian, Metagrossite Heracross, Blastoisinite Hydreigon, Gengarite Gengar, Red Orb Victini, Ampharosite Mew, traditional stallbreakers using Gyaradosite/Ampharosite, and more that I've forgotten I'm sure, can all severely dent, cripple, or eliminate Cresselia. So basically, my opinion is that stall is very limited in Mix and Mega, and Cresselia is one of its saving graces, and it is NOT unbeatable, and even though some ways to beat it may be gimmickier, every good balance or offense team should be packing AT LEAST one of them imo (I have 3 on the team I'm making rn iirc, and stall I have no experience with but they have their own Cress lol). There are ways to beat Cresselia, and it is just another top-tier Pokemon to prepare for (all metas have them).
Most of those things are incredibly niche, and the fact that you HAVE to run those things to beat it is just stupid. It's bulk is insane, it can't be stalled, really, it has a move pool that basically lets it beat basically everything w/ ease. If the question were sablenite, I'd agree with you. However, cresselia DESTROYS teams singlehandedly. It doesn't hold stall together, it is stall atm. There is plenty of other good mons for stall, it's the stones that are lacking. And actually, Manectite is decent for many defensive mons. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if stall as a whole improved somewhat, as cresselia destroys stall.
Cresselia is too much. It needs to go. There is no meta anywhere that is prepared for this thing- even AG would hate it.
Tl;dr, when something is able to destroy any team style on its own with out at least one dedicated check, that's just not even ok. There's no reason this thing should be allowed to stay. It is the epitome of centralizing.