Ladder Mix and Mega

[frogstomperful]

Cresselia should really not be banned in general if Black Kyurem, Slaking and Regigigas are just disallowed from the use of Mega Stones.

None of them can hit Cresselia with super-effective STAB, which seems to be needed in order to have a prayer of getting a 2hko. Slaking would really need a 1hko because of Truant, and Regigigas is simply screwed because of Slow Start.

252+ Slaking Choice Band Giga Impact vs 252HP/252+ Def Sablenite Cresselia = _________
252+ Kyurem-Black Choice Band Outrage vs 252HP/252+ Def Sablenite Cresselia = ________

This is the strongest hit either of them can deliver with unboosted stats. Can anyone fill in the blanks?

 

[Talpr0ne]

Wasn't saying that... I just meant why is Cresselia completely banned when you can just limit her from using any megastone like it was done with Black Kyurem and Slaking.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

I'm sorry, is Cube and Slaking allowed to use stones? That's broken af.

 

[Talpr0ne]

They are not. But they can still be used with a regular item, while Cresselia is banned as a whole. The whole point I was trying to make is why ban Cresselia as a whole when you have just disallowed the use of stones on KyuB, Slaking and Regigigas?

 

[Pikachuun]

Baned in general. While it would have, admittedly, perhaps been more logical to ban it from using a mega stone, but ghoul king thought it was a little late in the discussion to change the method of killing this monster, and it was just simpler that way. And frankly, I don't think cresselia would be relevant w/o a mega stone.

I just banned it from using a stone in the code because I misunderstood what "banned" meant in this situation; if needed I can change it to being fully banned, it isn't that hard

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

They are not. But they can still be used with a regular item, while Cresselia is banned as a whole. The whole point I was trying to make is why ban Cresselia as a whole when you have just disallowed the use of stones on KyuB, Slaking and Regigigas?

And I answered that question in my last post. It was basically just for simplicity's sake.

I just banned it from using a stone in the code because I misunderstood what "banned" meant in this situation; if needed I can change it to being fully banned, it isn't that hard

Meh- I can't speak for the other council members, but I for one don't really care. Especially if it will assuage the masses. Ghoul King, when the ban was first announced, even said that that would probably be more logical, but it was basically just like, oh well; it's not that big of s deal.

Btw, thanks for your help, Pikachuun! You da real mvp.

 

[xJownage]

Actually, just put cresselia as uber, thereore it cant use mega stones. The entire purpose of simplicity in bnning cress as a whole is consistency, but being consistent would be putting it on ubers banlist with Slaking and KyuBe.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Neat.

Finally dwelled into this meta a little and I found some neat things.

Bisharp

Bisharp can use two sets that I can think of, tough claws and Adaptability. Holding lucarionite is amazing and if you want to catch its lures you're free to use Tough claws from Mega metagross, definitely deserves an a lot higher ranking, I'm thinking A? We all know how powerful adaptability Bisharp is.

Groudon

So... why is this thing so low? It can still use Red orb to great effect, probably the best user of it still. Having an insanely high BST is also great. Idk...I don't see this going anywhere out of S rank

Gyarados

Don't really mind whatever ranking it has right now, but it can use Sceptile to great effect being able to set up on Rotom-W and Ferrothorn.

Everything that can use Pinsirite can use Salamencite for a bulkier approach.

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

Groudon

So... why is this thing so low? It can still use Red orb to great effect, probably the best user of it still. Having an insanely high BST is also great. Idk...I don't see this going anywhere out of S rank

Wanted to respond to this bit, as I disagree. It doesn't have a strong physical Fire STAB, unlike Victini who nukes everything with V-Create, and has a strong Blue Flare to hit physical walls and U-Turn to pivot out of counters. If you are going to use Red Orb, it should be on Victini or a similar Pokemon imo, Groudon is outclassed with Red Orb.

 

[Ghoul King]

I just banned it from using a stone in the code because I misunderstood what "banned" meant in this situation; if needed I can change it to being fully banned, it isn't that hard

Eh, I just went with "total banned" because the Council didn't really discuss the question much. I'd rather just stick with it being barred from Mega Stones anyway.

Though now I need to edit the OP. Again. :(

Wanted to respond to this bit, as I disagree. It doesn't have a strong physical Fire STAB, unlike Victini who nukes everything with V-Create, and has a strong Blue Flare to hit physical walls and U-Turn to pivot out of counters. If you are going to use Red Orb, it should be on Victini or a similar Pokemon imo, Groudon is outclassed with Red Orb.

I don't think it's outclassed, in the direct sense, but I do agree it's hard to argue for Primal Groudon when Red Orb Victini is so absurd in its destructive potential and more flexible besides.

Neat.

Finally dwelled into this meta a little and I found some neat things.

Bisharp

Bisharp can use two sets that I can think of, tough claws and Adaptability. Holding lucarionite is amazing and if you want to catch its lures you're free to use Tough claws from Mega metagross, definitely deserves an a lot higher ranking, I'm thinking A? We all know how powerful adaptability Bisharp is.

This isn't AAA. Not denying that Bisharp is neat with either of those, but it's a bit of a different meta. For one thing, Bisharp is typically valued in part for its powerful Knock Offs, which are much less valuable here. For another, -ated Extreme Speed is common enough that it's other big claim to fame -a vicious Sucker Punch- is a lot lower in relevance. I'd be surprised if it's able to push itself into A rank.

 

[motherlove]

Everything that can use Pinsirite can use Salamencite for a bulkier approach.

Pinsirite gives you the flying type.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Wanted to respond to this bit, as I disagree. It doesn't have a strong physical Fire STAB, unlike Victini who nukes everything with V-Create, and has a strong Blue Flare to hit physical walls and U-Turn to pivot out of counters. If you are going to use Red Orb, it should be on Victini or a similar Pokemon imo, Groudon is outclassed with Red Orb.

Yes, but Pdon has RIDICULOUS bulk, and only one weakness- Ground. And the only widely available powerful ground type move is earthquake, which it can tank like a pro. Not to mention, it still has great utility w/ moves like dragon tail, SR, Twave, and lava plume.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

That brings me to another point I want to make, why is Victini so damn high? In a metagame filled with speed and priority I don't see how Victini stands out. It's got meh speed, and 130 isn't that high of a power. It's very predictable and if you have a primordial sea user you've checked it pretty efficiently. I don't see it being S rank. Annnndddd.. Don't compare Victini to Groudon. Their roles don't overlap so they don't compete for a spot. Victini has two things over Groudon: Speed and V-create. If it didn't have those it would be outclassed by Groudon. Bolt strike isn't really a fair point as Groudon already has unresisted coverage with ease. And when Victini is so predictable I can't truly see it outclassing a pokemon that's pretty widely know to be the best pokemon that's allowed in any tier.


252+ Atk Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew in Harsh Sunshine: 484-571 (141.9 - 167.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Primal Groudon Eruption (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Harsh Sunshine: 448-528 (131.3 - 154.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Those are the two most powerful moves coming from both of them. It's that big of a difference, especially when you come to the conclusion that your Victini is easily countered. Yes, I said counter. You want to know what I'm referring too?

Slowking @ Sceptilite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Scald
- Dragon Tail
- Slack Off
- Thunder Wave

anywater type with reasonable special bulk, enough to take focus blast, counters Victini. Notable abusers of Sceptile on offence and defence alike Gyarados and Alomomola.

252+ Atk Victini V-create vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Slowking in Harsh Sunshine: 110-130 (27.9 - 33%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

However... This brings us to Primal Groudon. A pokemon that has zero counters. Zero. It's incredible versatile with Dragon claw, Earthquake, Preciple blades, Stone edge, Eruption, Fire punch, Lava plume, Swords dance, Rock polish, Toxic, Thunder wave, Stealth rock. All coupled with amazing defensive and offensive stats alone. I don't really see how Victini outclasses Primal groudon, it's closer to the other way around.

Oh and:

4 SpA Victini Dazzling Gleam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Slowking: 134-158 (34 - 40.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Though a sheer force varient Dazzling gleam (LOL) would beat Slowking that says a lot either way.

Manecite Heatran also works a pretty darn good check

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

That brings me to another point I want to make, why is Victini so damn high? In a metagame filled with speed and priority I don't see how Victini stands out. It's got meh speed, and 130 isn't that high of a power. It's very predictable and if you have a primordial sea user you've checked it pretty efficiently. I don't see it being S rank. Annnndddd.. Don't compare Victini to Groudon. Their roles don't overlap so they don't compete for a spot. Victini has two things over Groudon: Speed and V-create. If it didn't have those it would be outclassed by Groudon. Bolt strike isn't really a fair point as Groudon already has unresisted coverage with ease. And when Victini is so predictable I can't truly see it outclassing a pokemon that's pretty widely know to be the best pokemon that's allowed in any tier.


252+ Atk Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew in Harsh Sunshine: 484-571 (141.9 - 167.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Primal Groudon Eruption (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Harsh Sunshine: 448-528 (131.3 - 154.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Those are the two most powerful moves coming from both of them. It's that big of a difference, especially when you come to the conclusion that your Victini is easily countered. Yes, I said counter. You want to know what I'm referring too?

Slowking @ Sceptilite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Scald
- Dragon Tail
- Slack Off
- Thunder Wave

anywater type with reasonable special bulk, enough to take focus blast, counters Victini. Notable abusers of Sceptile on offence and defence alike Gyarados and Alomomola.

252+ Atk Victini V-create vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Slowking in Harsh Sunshine: 110-130 (27.9 - 33%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

However... This brings us to Primal Groudon. A pokemon that has zero counters. Zero. It's incredible versatile with Dragon claw, Earthquake, Preciple blades, Stone edge, Eruption, Fire punch, Lava plume, Swords dance, Rock polish, Toxic, Thunder wave, Stealth rock. All coupled with amazing defensive and offensive stats alone. I don't really see how Victini outclasses Primal groudon, it's closer to the other way around.

Oh and:

4 SpA Victini Dazzling Gleam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Slowking: 134-158 (34 - 40.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Though a sheer force varient Dazzling gleam (LOL) would beat Slowking that says a lot either way.

Manecite Heatran also works a pretty darn good check

While I worded my first post rather poorly, I still think I would go with Victini over Groudon. While it has 50 less attack, its most powerful physical Fire STAB is 2.4x as strong as Groudon's. Sure you can say "yo Eruption and full Special attack" but tbh, why would you waste that massive attack on full physical investment ?_? You also lose bulk or speed, and V-Create is STILL stronger. This is also ignoring the fact that Eruption gets less powerful if you take more damage, and guess what? Victini also has Blue Flare, which hits harder than Eruption consistently after a bit of prior damage on Groudon (and I have found rocks are very easy to get up). You also happen to be forgetting one of the best moves in Victini's repertoire--U-Turn. While Victini is countered by stuff like Sceptilite Slowking (as you mentioned) and Blue Orb Ferrothorn, it is rather easy to predict the switch and pivot into something that can revenge kill these mons, or just wreak havoc in general. It also has respectable bulk as well:

252+ Atk Aerilate Pinsirite Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Red Orb Victini: 190-225 (55.7 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (yes ik Altarianite is better but it resists that ESpeed so it will obviously tank it lol)

That's a 104 BP STAB coming off of Adamant 164 base attack, can't even kill uninvested Victini after Rocks. I've used Victini in pretty much all of my matches, and just the POSSIBILITY of it coming in forces you to play differently. If you have a counter, you switch directly to it, meaning you lose momentum and fall behind if it U-Turns. Victini is one of the best mons in the meta, basically because it creates so many mindgames (Do I switch in my counter letting it take entry hazard and U-Turn damage? Or will it U-Turn out and force my counter out again, so I should stay in?) giving the Victini player all the power. This raw power (like seriously basically nothing outdamages it) and ability to create mindgames that often hinge on one predict (btw if the Tini player gets it wrong, they can always A.) U-Turn out next turn or B.) they still U-Turned out of the mon that was in and you can switch to a counter to their mon, but if the other side mispredicts they either A.) lost a mon or B.) got their counter weakened, which eventually can lead to a point where Tini simply overwhelms it) are what make Victini so great imo, and why it is the best user of Red Orb.

 

[Martin]

I know that this is a knitpick, but I have a quick question: why does Aggronite make the holder gain the Steel type? The reason I say this is because, when Aggron mega evolves, it loses its secondary type. In that case, why doesn't it make the holder lose its secondary type if one is present? It makes more sense considering that it is the effect of the actual mega stone.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

While I worded my first post rather poorly, I still think I would go with Victini over Groudon. While it has 50 less attack, its most powerful physical Fire STAB is 2.4x as strong as Groudon's. Sure you can say "yo Eruption and full Special attack" but tbh, why would you waste that massive attack on full physical investment ?_? You also lose bulk or speed, and V-Create is STILL stronger. This is also ignoring the fact that Eruption gets less powerful if you take more damage, and guess what? Victini also has Blue Flare, which hits harder than Eruption consistently after a bit of prior damage on Groudon (and I have found rocks are very easy to get up). You also happen to be forgetting one of the best moves in Victini's repertoire--U-Turn. While Victini is countered by stuff like Sceptilite Slowking (as you mentioned) and Blue Orb Ferrothorn, it is rather easy to predict the switch and pivot into something that can revenge kill these mons, or just wreak havoc in general. It also has respectable bulk as well:

252+ Atk Aerilate Pinsirite Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Red Orb Victini: 190-225 (55.7 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (yes ik Altarianite is better but it resists that ESpeed so it will obviously tank it lol)

That's a 104 BP STAB coming off of Adamant 164 base attack, can't even kill uninvested Victini after Rocks. I've used Victini in pretty much all of my matches, and just the POSSIBILITY of it coming in forces you to play differently. If you have a counter, you switch directly to it, meaning you lose momentum and fall behind if it U-Turns. Victini is one of the best mons in the meta, basically because it creates so many mindgames (Do I switch in my counter letting it take entry hazard and U-Turn damage? Or will it U-Turn out and force my counter out again, so I should stay in?) giving the Victini player all the power. This raw power (like seriously basically nothing outdamages it) and ability to create mindgames that often hinge on one predict (btw if the Tini player gets it wrong, they can always A.) U-Turn out next turn or B.) they still U-Turned out of the mon that was in and you can switch to a counter to their mon, but if the other side mispredicts they either A.) lost a mon or B.) got their counter weakened, which eventually can lead to a point where Tini simply overwhelms it) are what make Victini so great imo, and why it is the best user of Red Orb.

If you want to use Groudon as a wallbreaker Victini will do that better, but Groudon still beats it any way possible besides Speed and V-create. Not saying that Victini should be unranked. But not S.

 

[xJownage]

Victini is an incredible wallbreaker, but red orb is certainly not its only set; it can abuse cameruptite, sceptilite, and a bunch of other stones since V-create is so powerful and it has so many coverage moves as well as u-turn. Sceptilite slowking is a shitty counterargument anyways, its so niche for beating one set that it really isn't relevant and just proves how effective it is.

Regardless, Victini is really good mon, period. Groudon-P is mediocre and often overwhelmed with its lack of reliable recovery and its relative predictability (the stuff that can check it is almost always going to check it in this meta - think your slowking set).

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

If you want to use Groudon as a wallbreaker Victini will do that better, but Groudon still beats it any way possible besides Speed and V-create. Not saying that Victini should be unranked. But not S.

It is S for a reason, bro. It is, bar none, the single best wallbreaker in the meta. Mostly because of it's awesome attacking movepool. With all the options it has, there is basically nothing that can hard counter it. Pdon actually could, for the most part, however, I'm sure it would deal a good chunk of damage w/ grass knot, so lure sets could beat it.

Regardless, Victini is really good mon, period. Groudon-P is mediocre and often overwhelmed with its lack of reliable recovery and its relative predictability (the stuff that can check it is almost always going to check it in this meta - think your slowking set).

Now that part really isn't true. Perhaps as a wallbreaker, however, Pdon a VERY good support, and, unlike Tiny V, it has rock polish. So, while its wallbreaking capabilities aren't as crazy, it's also an awesome late game sweeper. Especially as it can tank atespeeds very well. Also it has a vastly superior defensive typing. (Lol, never thought I'd say that about ground/fire... Ever.)

I know that this is a knitpick, but I have a quick question: why does Aggronite make the holder gain the Steel type? The reason I say this is because, when Aggron mega evolves, it loses its secondary type. In that case, why doesn't it make the holder lose its secondary type if one is present? It makes more sense considering that it is the effect of the actual mega stone.

Meant to answer this earlier, but I forgot. Sorry. Initially that is how it behaved. However, in-game, steel type is actually steel/steel. Therefore, aggronite adds steel typing to the holder.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Victini is a really good mon. I'm not going to argue that it should leave S as I haven't played Mix and Mega a lot, but I'm going to argue that Primal groudon is better than a pityful A- rank.

Primal Groudon has almost no downside

I mean... Look at it. It has one weakness in ground and it's not like there's a lot of ground pokemon that can OHKO this thing either. Never mind the fact that the ones that do are easily outspeed and OHKOd. It's one weakness and immunity to water and electric allows it to switch into a plethora of mons. I mean, in Ubers this thing has made the whole viability rankings revolve around it, if you give Primal groudon a free switch in you're essentially doomed in terms of viability. Rotom-W? Gone. Kyogre? Gone. Kyogre went from being S rank to what... B? C? That's saying something. It's not like anything in this metagame can even be compared to primal Groudon, maybe Hippowdown? No, because you have to remember that there isn't a downside to Primal groudon. Great HP, Breathtaking Attack, Baffling defence, Astonishing Special attack and above average speed and special defence.

Primal Groudon has no counters

It's unmatched ability to go mixed and with access to a plethora of set up moves leaves this mon uncounterable. Giratina? Nop, 80% from +2 Preciples blades. Lugia? Stone edge breaks its ability to recover up, as well as fearing Preciples blades if it chooses to roost, never mind the fact that Lugia nor Giratina can do anything to this monster. Uninvested Draco meteor from giratina doesn't even 2HKO. And don't try to mention Giratina-O as it has a chanced to get OHKOd by +2 Dragon claw. And yes, these pokemon and others can use Mega stones. But really, fire, ground + rock is unresisted and at +2 nothing takes Primal Groudon on. Quagsire takes 60% from Preciples blades even if its fully invested, that is breathtaking.

Primal Groudon fits on every single play style, there is not a single reason to not use this monster

There's a reason it's on 50% of teams in Ubers. There is virtually no reason to not use Primal Groudon. It fits on stall with its support and defensive abilities. Balance loves a water and fire spam switch in. Hyper offence has nothing that can do a duel dancing role better Primal Groudon. Why would you not want to use Primal groudon? It has no opportunity cost as every team should have a ground switch in. It can be your rocker, your t-waver, your sweeper, your wallbreaker!

I can bicker on about Primal Groudon for ages but essentially? Primal groudon loses nothing from this metagame, very few things can stand up to it and it still has the highest BST out of any pokemon, bar the MMXY and Kyogre. It can preform a large variation of roles that can fit on every single team. It's not an A- pokemon that's absurd.

 

[Throbulator36]

Victini is a really good mon. I'm not going to argue that it should leave S as I haven't played Mix and Mega a lot, but I'm going to argue that Primal groudon is better than a pityful A- rank.

Primal Groudon has almost no downside

I mean... Look at it. It has one weakness in ground and it's not like there's a lot of ground pokemon that can OHKO this thing either. Never mind the fact that the ones that do are easily outspeed and OHKOd. It's one weakness and immunity to water and electric allows it to switch into a plethora of mons. I mean, in Ubers this thing has made the whole viability rankings revolve around it, if you give Primal groudon a free switch in you're essentially doomed in terms of viability. Rotom-W? Gone. Kyogre? Gone. Kyogre went from being S rank to what... B? C? That's saying something. It's not like anything in this metagame can even be compared to primal Groudon, maybe Hippowdown? No, because you have to remember that there isn't a downside to Primal groudon. Great HP, Breathtaking Attack, Baffling defence, Astonishing Special attack and above average speed and special defence.

Primal Groudon has no counters

It's unmatched ability to go mixed and with access to a plethora of set up moves leaves this mon uncounterable. Giratina? Nop, 80% from +2 Preciples blades. Lugia? Stone edge breaks its ability to recover up, as well as fearing Preciples blades if it chooses to roost, never mind the fact that Lugia nor Giratina can do anything to this monster. Uninvested Draco meteor from giratina doesn't even 2HKO. And don't try to mention Giratina-O as it has a chanced to get OHKOd by +2 Dragon claw. And yes, these pokemon and others can use Mega stones. But really, fire, ground + rock is unresisted and at +2 nothing takes Primal Groudon on. Quagsire takes 60% from Preciples blades even if its fully invested, that is breathtaking.

Primal Groudon fits on every single play style, there is not a single reason to not use this monster

There's a reason it's on 50% of teams in Ubers. There is virtually no reason to not use Primal Groudon. It fits on stall with its support and defensive abilities. Balance loves a water and fire spam switch in. Hyper offence has nothing that can do a duel dancing role better Primal Groudon. Why would you not want to use Primal groudon? It has no opportunity cost as every team should have a ground switch in. It can be your rocker, your t-waver, your sweeper, your wallbreaker!

I can bicker on about Primal Groudon for ages but essentially? Primal groudon loses nothing from this metagame, very few things can stand up to it and it still has the highest BST out of any pokemon, bar the MMXY and Kyogre. It can preform a large variation of roles that can fit on every single team. It's not an A- pokemon that's absurd.

The reason not to run it is if you would rather have a different red orber

 

[motherlove]

Tr + v-create victini is actually really good since it causes so many switches.

And arguing that primadon is good isn't going to make victini any less effective.

Also in mix'n mega, primadon gets outclassed in some of it's roles. A pokemon with recovery is almost always better for defensive roles, landorus makes a better double dance set and victini is a better (mixed) wallbreaker.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Tr + v-create victini is actually really good since it causes so many switches.

And arguing that primadon is good isn't going to make victini any less effective.

Also in mix'n mega, primadon gets outclassed in some of it's roles. A pokemon with recovery is almost always better for defensive roles, landorus makes a better double dance set and victini is a better (mixed) wallbreaker.

That's fine. now I'm just arguing that Primal don should be ranked higher. Landorus-T does not have the stats of Primal don, which is of great benefit. And Landours-T loses intimidate

 

[motherlove]

That's fine. now I'm just arguing that Primal don should be ranked higher. Landorus-T does not have the stats of Primal don, which is of great benefit. And Landours-T loses intimidate

I meant landoT with mewtwoiteX, 89 / 225 / 100 / 105 / 90 / 91 with intimidate and ground fighting. you lose a lot of bulk but with intimidate you can pull one of the 2 dances up.

I agree tho, primadon still has an amzing defensive typing meaning it's much, much harder to rk.

 

[Talpr0ne]

Why has nobody mentioned Pidgeotite Victini? In my opinion, it is one of its most effective sets, and certainly its most risk free one compared to the others(compared to Cameruptite which is slowish and relies on inaccurate moves and physically based stones such as Metagrossite or Red Orb, which have to face V-Create drops), because of how spammable Inferno is, thanks to solid power, perfect accuracy(even bypasses obnoxiosus Minimize spammers) and the guaranteed burn, which really helps at wearing down non-fire type checks.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Why has nobody mentioned Pidgeotite Victini? In my opinion, it is one of its most effective sets, and certainly its most risk free one compared to the others(compared to Cameruptite which is slowish and relies on inaccurate moves and physically based stones such as Metagrossite or Red Orb, which have to face V-Create drops), because of how spammable Inferno is, thanks to solid power, perfect accuracy(even bypasses obnoxiosus Minimize spammers) and the guaranteed burn, which really helps at wearing down non-fire type checks.

Typhlosions another decent option for inferno spam- though it's probably inferior for the most part.

typhlosion has a bit more power and flash fire, meaning it can switch in easier and do more damage. Unfortunately, it no longer has access to zap cannon. That would be fun. However, I believe it still has dynamic punch- maybe not w/ flash fire, but idk. Overall, it's probably just worse, but I'm always looking for an excuse to use typhlosion. It also can fire off really powerful eruptions w/ a bunch of stones; red orb would give you the most power, but Absolite would work very well too. It probably isn't worth it, but I'm gonna try it out for kicks