M&M Mix and Mega

scpinion

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#51
In response to the precedent with Ubers and HypnoGar, I think that is a somewhat dubious decision that they're just rationalizing in a way that makes it more palpable to the PR crowd. Ubers is not Smogon's all-inclusive metagame (AG is), so it shouldn't get special treatment. I'm almost certain TI shares a similar mindset based on his post in that thread.

Similarly, MnM is not the all-inclusive OM (BH is), so it shouldn't get special treatment.

In response to the bit about MnM's popularity:
In my opinion, it isn't diversity that makes this popular, rather the concept/mechanic itself. That concept is still really good and provides many new opportunities that differentiate MnM from standard play and other OMs. Gen 7 will just be a drastic shift in what threats/stones define the meta, which isn't objectively a bad thing. The concept is still awesome and should draw players without issue if its core players give it the same attention this go round.
 

thesecondbest

Just Kidding I'm First
#52
Yeah I think stall will rule the meta with two sableye mons and no pidge mons but we'll see.
Also with ubers giving us a precedent, maybe we should ban sleep moves + pidgeotite one that is released. I know it is complex but then Darkrai and skymin won't be op, and gengar won't really be an issue. Thoughts? (Dont just say complex ban = bad please)
 
#53
Yeah I think stall will rule the meta with two sableye mons and no pidge mons but we'll see.
Also with ubers giving us a precedent, maybe we should ban sleep moves + pidgeotite one that is released. I know it is complex but then Darkrai and skymin won't be op, and gengar won't really be an issue. Thoughts? (Dont just say complex ban = bad please)
Thing is that ubers are doing it as an extension of sleep clause due to the fact trapping+sleep violated sleep clause's so called "spirit" - What's the point of sleep clause if you can't sleep fodder something? It's not so much a complex ban as it is an extension. Thing is about complex bans people really seem to not like them - Hell, Gods and Followers had a bit of drama because someone complained banning Geomancy was a "complex ban" when it really wasn't (just banned one move), which shows how much a stigma there is around complex bans. imo it makes no sense but apparently the slippery slope fallacy holds ground here so :V. Pidgesleep is stupid either way though.
 
#55
With neither Lopunnite or Mewtwonite X available, Phero's best stones look to be Lucarionite and Charizardite X. Darkrai becomes a lot more manageable without it being able to use Pidgeotite DV, but it's still got NP and great all round stats, with solid stab and great coverage to boot. Darkrai's best stone looks to be either Blastoisinite or Lucarionite, which both actually look utterly ridiculous. Blastoisinite's STAB Dark Pulse looks like it'll hit hard as hell, esp. thanks to a mind numbing 185 base special attack and potential NPs to back it up to the point of not even needing STAB, possibly letting it run Sub+Taunt (Sub alone running circles around Blissey without Seismic Toss). Lucarionite is slightly less absurdly powerful, but it's still a 160 effective base power move (as opposed to the effective BP of Blastoisinite, which sits at 180) coming off 160 base special attack with a potential +2. Not as much raw power as blastiosinite but it also gets an increase in speed up to 147. Has to run coverage on this set, though, and it can't muscle through Bliss after rocks like Blastoisinite can. Even without Pidgeotite DV, Darkrai still looks broken tbh
 
#57
Well, Wishiwashi can't Mega and stay in School Form, so that's one idea gone.
That's a coding error, same as Meloetta reverting to Aria Forme whenever she Megas. It should really be fixed as soon as possible seeing as we currently have the next best thing to a permanent ladder.

Edit: On a more relevant note, I'm not sure what to think about lack of any Pixilates. Lack of Gardevoirite/Altarianite hurts Tapu Bulu and Tapu Koko especially; they'd both really like to have physical Fairy STAB.

I guess the tier is just run by Glalitite Weavile, Pinsirite whatevers, and Primal Groudon now.
Also now you can run Primal Groudon and Red Orb Raikou on the same team. What fun.
 
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MacChaeger

Go ahead, I’m bulletproof
is a Battle Server Moderator
#58
Well, Wishiwashi can't Mega and stay in School Form, so that's one idea gone.
I'd just like to point out that it half works on ROM. That is, Wishiwashi reverts back to solo forme upon mega evolving / primally reverting, but keeps the school forme's stats + the mega stone's boosts. Tagging urkerab to look into what might be causing this.
 
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#59
Really, the biggest losses here, besides the -ate stones, are Latiasite and Sceptilite, which are so delicious for mindgames. The rest aren't too bad to lose, though that hole does linger still...

But enough wallowing in the past. I have found another monster. Thankfully, this one doesn't seem to be too banworthy, and instead just insane fun to play:



Mimikyu @ Metagrossite
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Claw
- Play Rough
- Will-O-Wisp

This just becomes great with a free turn and the new Mega mechanics. You basically use the disguise to absorb a blow while you status/set up, and then just blow the opponent away. Not many people expect this cutie patooie to be a huge threat in a meta of big stat spreads, but it finds a way to troll the ever-living heck out of it. To give you an idea of what it can do, this Mimikyu forced a Regigigas out. That's certainly nothing to laugh at. (As a side note, the Disguise thing is fixed! Now we can admire it in all of its head-tiled glory...)
 
#60
I also had a very similar idea with mimikyu. Mines lucarionite, however. basicly the same set but exchange will o wisp for shadow sneak and obviously lucarionite over metagrossite. my set is more for blowing up offense teams with an adaptability shadow sneak off 125 atk. also can kill slower bulk teams due to relative speed. just watch out for priority.
 
#61
Golisopod @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- Toxic / Swords Dance
- Liquidation
- Aqua Jet

This thing is a monster. I've seen it all over the ladder, but I also thought of it b4 MnM was a thing, so I'm claiming it as mine >:D Hard switches in to a lot of scary threats such as: Glalite Weavile, Primal Groudon (tho it hard switches in to you, hence toxic), any other fire pokemon that arent paired with salamencite or pinsirite. It's bulk is incredible, and the +20 to spdef is much appreciated. With the +50 Attack bonus, Golisopod hits a whopping 493 attack stat. With that + Rain + STAB, it's water attacks are absolutely lethal. Swords Dance can be used for even more stall breaking capabilities. First Impression and Aqua Jet are there for revenge killing, which helps accommodate for its lacking speed.
 
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#62
Ok, so I've been playing a bit and got up to #10 on ladder. Though, admittedly, ladder is pretty shit rn and is filled with ingame teams and the occasional multiple vanilla mega team, I have fought some decent teams and players. High ladder's ok, though. These will be talking about those high ladder teams as my gameplan for low ladder teams is lead Deo-S, Taunt their lead so as to prevent stupid gimmicks, stack to rocks and 3 spikes, go to Regi and sweep.

Observations:
Deo-S is still as great as ever, pretty much guarantees rocks unless they lead Metagrossite Pheromosa or something (though Golisopod is actually pretty common, nobody seems to lead it and would much rather lead something else like Weav for whatever reason). Gyaradosite gives it great bulk and without pixispeed, it's a lot harder for opposing teams to reliably prevent it from getting up at least rocks.
Darkrai with Lucarionite is far superior to Blastoisinite from my experience, 125 speed is actually kind of slow with stupidity like phero running around, and the increased speed is really nifty, not to mention with Adaptability you really won't notice the difference between it and Mega Launcher. NP+3 Attacks is the set I've seen most success with.
Aerodactylite Regigigas appears to be one of it's better sets, as the big reason to use Regi over something faster like Lucarionite Terrakion is the increased bulk, which Aerodactylite has in spades. 110/130/130 defenses is really, REALLY difficult to OHKO without an SE attack, and you have to be STAB Fighting to OHKO it even then. Small fry attacks like Coba Sacred Sword (actually saw this on ladder) isn't doing much to this at all. It's pretty much the best bulky attacker in the meta right now imo. It's not the kind of 'mon who leads and 6-0s teams like I thought it'd be, but it's still a good Pokemon. btw, the power difference between Adaptability and Tough Claws is practically 5 HP's worth of difference. Rock Polish might be great, offense's method of handling it atm is usually Pheromosa.
Pinsirite Dragonite is still dangerous as heck, Multiscale lets it boost up on things and ESpeed is super nifty for all the Pheromosa running around. +1 Return hits hard as hell from this thing, and it can brute force it's way past Skarm thinking they can Defog/lacking Whirlwind.
Lucarionite Pheromosa is ok, not actually got raw 6-0s with it but that's the same as in OU rn for me, so eh. It does take out half their team from time to time, though. It does the same thing as in OU, which is revenge kill, U-turn out of so called counters and just generally hijack momentum in your favour.
I've seen a number of Golisopod, and the most threatening set is definitely SD Blue Orb. First Impression also really makes Gyaradosite Deo-S regret it's existence, if you're about that life, as well as acting as an "Espeed" in that it can finish off 'mons like Darkrai and Pheromosa in the same way -atespeed does (but weaker obv).
Manaphy's kind of underwhelming tbh, but that's likely just because of all my teams being super high damage super fast HO.
 
#63
I also had a very similar idea with mimikyu. Mines lucarionite, however. basicly the same set but exchange will o wisp for shadow sneak and obviously lucarionite over metagrossite. my set is more for blowing up offense teams with an adaptability shadow sneak off 125 atk. also can kill slower bulk teams due to relative speed. just watch out for priority.
I would like to note that for some weird reason, Shadow Sneak is a contact move, so Tough Claws boosts Shadow Sneak as well.
 
#64
I would like to note that for some weird reason, Shadow Sneak is a contact move, so Tough Claws boosts Shadow Sneak as well.
although weirdly he didn't have sneak on his set, and I think lucarionite boosts it more, and more attack. yes I know theres like 80 tough claw stones but lucarionite is still my fav option for mimikyu.
 
#65
I'd just like to point out that it half works on ROM. That is, Wishiwashi reverts back to solo forme upon mega evolving / primally reverting, but keeps the school forme's stats + the mega stone's boosts. Tagging urkerab to look into what might be causing this.
Well, what happened was that I found the bit of code that chose which forme to mega evolve, but overlooked that the bit of code that told the client about the mega evolution was still using the old forme. Should be fixed now.
 
#66
Golisopod @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- Toxic / Swords Dance
- Liquidation
- Aqua Jet

This thing is a monster. I've seen it all over the ladder, but I also thought of it b4 MnM was a thing, so I'm claiming it as mine >:D Hard switches in to a lot of scary threats such as: Glalite Weavile, Primal Groudon (tho it hard switches in to you, hence toxic), any other fire pokemon that arent paired with salamencite or pinsirite. It's bulk is incredible, and the +20 to spdef is much appreciated. With the +50 Attack bonus, Golisopod hits a whopping 493 attack stat. With that + Rain + STAB, it's water attacks are absolutely lethal. Swords Dance can be used for even more stall breaking capabilities. First Impression and Aqua Jet are there for revenge killing, which helps accommodate for its lacking speed.
Rather than Blue Orb, I would think a Lucarionite Goliospod would be phenomenal. Adaptability First Impression off of a 160 Base Attack and Adaptability backed up by Liquidation and Aqua Jet, also with Adaptability backing them. Doesn't get the sort of defensive boosts Blue Orb offers, but with the kind of power Lucarionite First Impression backs I honestly doubt Goliospod cares much.

Hell, it even gets a... somewhat more usable speed of base 62, which allows it to actually outspeed stuff xp
 
#67
Well, what happened was that I found the bit of code that chose which forme to mega evolve, but overlooked that the bit of code that told the client about the mega evolution was still using the old forme. Should be fixed now.
I have the Blue Orb on Wishiwashi, and it still changes back to normal when it Primal Reverts.
 
#69
I also had a very similar idea with mimikyu. Mines lucarionite, however. basicly the same set but exchange will o wisp for shadow sneak and obviously lucarionite over metagrossite. my set is more for blowing up offense teams with an adaptability shadow sneak off 125 atk. also can kill slower bulk teams due to relative speed. just watch out for priority.
Looks like I'm not the only who thought of that.
I know I'm not one the best players, but I thought this would be interesting to share.

Tapu Koko @ Pinsirite
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wild Charge
- U-turn
- Quick Attack
- Return
 
#70
Hey guys,

I haven't been playing as much as I'd like, how are the unbans? Anything you'd like addressed? I'd love some replays from you guys, especially with the new unbans!

Thanks, hope you're having fun!
 
#71
Hey guys,

I haven't been playing as much as I'd like, how are the unbans? Anything you'd like addressed? I'd love some replays from you guys, especially with the new unbans!

Thanks, hope you're having fun!
Well, I've been playing a lot and trying out a whole bunch of shit, but IMO the biggest culprit RN is Dragonite, followed by Regigigas and somewhat Genesect. The lack of Pidgeotite has really saved Rai; that's not an issue right now. Similarly, while cresselia has singlehandedly made stall runnable (I actually have one rn), it's still very MU based and relies onoffense not having Hoopa-U, or if you have a yveltal not having hoopa-u+Mgar
 
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#72
Mimikyu is a great sweeper
I went 6-0 or 5-0 with mimikyu. Disguise is very handy for setup. My set:
Mimikyu@Aerodactylite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs:252 Atk/252 Spe/4 SpD
Adamant Nature
-Swords Dance
-Wood Hammer
-Play Rough
-Shadow Sneak
First set up using Swords dance. Disguise protects you so no worries. Then mega evolve and Attack.
Also what is the Dragonite Set everyone is talking about? Can someone share it with me?
Thank You.
 
#73
Hey guys,

I haven't been playing as much as I'd like, how are the unbans? Anything you'd like addressed? I'd love some replays from you guys, especially with the new unbans!

Thanks, hope you're having fun!
I am having fun, thank you. :)

Regigigas is pretty concerning with its bulk and power just smashing stuff up.
Lucarionite Shaymin-Sky is also a concern, as its Seed Flares are incredibly devastating, especially if it gets the SpDef drop. This is compounded if you manage to set up a Grassy Terrain. This meta has shifted towards offense, and it concerns me...
My Pheromosa concerns are still there after using it, and it basically wins after priority is taken out of the picture.
Zygarde's actually every bit as powerful as Dragonite now, and might even be better than it now. I've gotten plenty of Zygarde sweeps.

Some replays of my experiences so far:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-487752213
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-487762272
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-488288010
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-488417954
 

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