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M&M Mix and Mega

My bad, I thought Nihilego was primary Poison. I believe in Steel/Dark Skarmory, though. :P

For a possibly better set iterating on the same idea:
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Crobat @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Roost
- U-turn/Super Fang

Other options: Haze, Whirlwind, Defog. Sludge Bomb and Dark Pulse are probably as good as you get in terms of STAB if you want that. Its a fast, bulky and reliable stallbreaker with a single weakness, and UU basically runs the same set with Brave Bird as the mono attack, so what's not to love? Dunks on Cresselia mercilessly but also beats Blissey and similar fat mons with ease. Pure theorymon but it might do alright in a Cress meta. I don't really know any stall mons that can actually touch this other than Hippowdon, which is more of a balance Pokemon than a stall staple anyway. Can U-turn on anything you can't beat for momentum regardless, although Super Fang is nice for breaking Steels/Poisons.
 
gyaradosite crobat was brought up in the oras forum but is still good :D also, if kyub can mega, why not zekrom too? I mean, basicly a worse kyub with bolt strike :P. roughly same bulk, zek is weaker, slower, and doesn't have ice type to use glaliete with.
 
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DurzaOffTopic said:
Hi, just gonna show the team I've been using since the Suspect dropped.

This team is extremely effective if played right. I hold the most wins on suspect ladder by far, but some misplays from laddering at 3 AM have cost me enough losses to make getting that 3000 coil.

Here are some reviews of this team by quality users after I beat them!

WALL OF SHAME:
(After I beat him for the third time) Quantum Tesseract: cteam
InfernapeTropius11: cteam
Zephyr Dragon Lord: nice cteam (disclaimer, he did beat me a few times)
(Somewhere in between my 10 times beating him lol) gmfc: cteam
Duck Impersonator (shall not reveal identity because probably hiding in shame after losing to me so many times): fuckin cteam

(In before gos gets mad at me for that)

Well as you can see, this team is good. Also I can't make cteams for 5 different teams of good people on ladder.

So now that we are finished with the wall of shame, lets get to the team:

xerneas-active.gif

Xerneas @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Flash Cannon
- Grass Knot
- Thunderbolt

ScarfXern is one of the best mons in the meta at the current state. Outspeeds most of the mons in the tier, and destroys the Dark, Fighting, and Dragon Populations (Dnite, Weavile, Zygarde, etc.).

OHKO's a non-specially defensive Lucarionite Kartana, which on paper is a good counter, yet the speed tier proves otherwise.

regigigas.gif

Regigigas @ Pinsirite
Ability: Slow Start
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Retaliate / Crush Grip
- Return
- Drain Punch
- Rock Slide

Revenge killer, Speedy sweeper, fast power. That is Regigigas in a nutshell. Running Pinsirite because of ghost type mons such as Ghostceus, Giratina, and Hoopa-C. Immune to ground which is good for switch ins, and flying typing makes fighting neutral. Drain punch for weavile and others, especially when low on HP. Rock slide for other flying types, and tough walls like Zapdos.

arceus-fire.png

Arceus-Fire @ Flame Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpA OR 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Mild or Calm Nature
- Judgement
- Extreme Speed
- Thunder
- Earth Power

Okay, hold up. I know you're skeptical. But just look at some calcs.
252 SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fire: 89-105 (20 - 23.6%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
252 SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Arceus-Fire: 66-78 (14.8 - 17.5%) -- possible 6HKO
252 Atk Kartana Smart Strike vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Fire: 63-75 (14.1 - 16.8%) -- possible 6HKO
252 Atk Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Fire: 81-96 (18.2 - 21.6%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Refrigerate Weavile Fake Out vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Fire: 34-41 (7.6 - 9.2%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 Atk Refrigerate Weavile Frustration vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Fire: 88-104 (19.8 - 23.4%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ SpA Primal Groudon Lava Plume vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fire in Harsh Sun: 76-90 (17.1 - 20.2%) -- possible 5HKO

Arceus-Fire is the ultimate switch in. It can take so many things with ease, and then kill them, or even better, lure:
252+ SpA Arceus-Fire Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon: 224-264 (65.4 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Flame Plate Arceus-Fire Judgment vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 2344-2764 (901.5 - 1063%) -- guaranteed OHKO (lol gotem)
252+ SpA Flame Plate Arceus-Fire Judgment vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Weavile: 558-656 (198.5 - 233.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Flame Plate Arceus-Fire Judgment vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas: 247-292 (62.6 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

But you see a fire arceus, and then say, okay, I'll send in my blue orb mon.
252+ SpA Arceus-Fire Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blue Orb Golisopod: 230-272 (79 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Arceus-Fire Thunder vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Blue Orb Golisopod: 184-218 (63.2 - 74.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
252+ SpA Arceus-Fire Thunder vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Blue Orb Golisopod: 184-218 (63.2 - 74.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (easy espeed kill after)
252+ SpA Arceus-Fire Thunder vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Blue Orb Skarmory: 532-628 (311.1 - 367.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Arceus-Fire Thunder vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 166-196 (48.5 - 57.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

This thing is a MONSTER.

kyurem-black.gif

Kyurem-Black @ Glalitite
Ability: Teravolt
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Fusion Bolt
- Frustration
- Roost
- Outrage

A great coverage mon, brings huge power and with Fusion Bolt and Frustration it will hit every typing at least for neutral damage. That base 210 Attack with boost from the Mega Stone is insane. Can OHKO Mimikyu before evolution as well, which is helpful.

groudon.gif

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Lava Plume
- Roar
My rocks setter and usual lead, Pdon is a staple of the meta that in my opinion no team can not have.

dragonite-3.gif

Dragonite @ Salamencite
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Return
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake

Another new sweeper unbanned in gen 7, Dragonite is a mon that has the advantage to always get a setup due to Multiscale before evolution, except in the case of rocks. Espeed gets Aerealate stab and +2 Priority. Return gives huge damage and at +1 can OHKO or 2HKO most of the mons in the meta. If you are lucky enough to get 2 Dragon Dances off you are likely to win the game.

So thats my team. It isn't perfect, and particularly weak to stall, but it works. And it works pretty damn well.
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Why would I, the true Duck Impersonation, hide in shame when I beat you consistently until you changed your team? Notably: you were basically hardwalled by blue orb skarm. I've definitely beaten you more than you beat me.

About the suspect: I gave up on reqs when I realized I would just abstain anyway. Cresselia's bulk is ridiculous, and Magic Bounce is perfect for it, but the fact that Moonlight is weather effected and has low pp makes it not a sure thing IMO.
 
Christmas is coming early this year boiis!

The Immortal and scpinion have decided to scrap the idea of rotational ladders, meaning Mix and Mega isn't going anywhere! Rejoice and praise the OM leaders!

Quote by TI below!
I was going to stick to rotation, but I had a look at it and it looked really bad. the options to ladder were so few. it felt like all the work done to make oms have such a big presence just disappeared. many choices will attract more people to oms because they could like one of those options. also, we did remove inverse and ts, and LCotM isn't a ladder any more, so the other ladders should see some improvement compared to last gen
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http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmegasuspecttest-501855074

Glalite Mamoswine is a monster tbh. Too bad we haven't a lot of mega gems this gen, but so far I've really enjoyed this type of battle! It's also too bad that people don't play with originality, I always try to play surprising mon (Primeape with an Aerodactylite or Flygon with a Pinsirite) but I always see things like Mimikyu, Pheromosa, Groudon etc...

Pidgeotite is really the gem we needed for Gen 7 btw
 
In the spirit of Christmas, as GoS called it, I have some good news.

There is a Mix and Mega tour:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/mix-and-mega-tournament-signups-open.3590526/
Signups will begin on the 23rd, last 4 days, and close on the 27th. Format will be a best of 3, single elimination tournament. If you want to show everyone just how good you are, drop by and enter the tour. While this won't contribute directly to suspects testing, replays from the tour will be a great way to demonstrate the brokenness (or lack thereof) of Pokemon.
 
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I'm curious what Diancie could do with Sablenite. Its new stat line would be 50/110/200/120/200/20 and it would get the Magic Bounce it gets from its own Mega. Thoughts from anyone who's done this? Someone must have. It's surely different enough from its own Mega to be worth exploring.
 
frogstomperful said:
I'm curious what Diancie could do with Sablenite. Its new stat line would be 50/110/200/120/200/20 and it would get the Magic Bounce it gets from its own Mega. Thoughts from anyone who's done this? Someone must have. It's surely different enough from its own Mega to be worth exploring.
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I haven't seen terribly much of Diancie in general from Mix and Mega... I think I've seen the Sablenite variant once. A lack of recover huts it, but it also sounds like a complete hard stop to both Entei and Arcanine...and maybe set up Trick room, if you really want a crazy Golisopod for a few turns... I guess it can also use a Resttalk set to some success when Primal Groudon is KOed.

I think this is something best learned about with experimentation. I'll try laddering on the suspect ladder with this... I'll post my report afterwards.

EDIT: Diancie has even more problems than I imagined. Both Primals absolutely decimate Diancie. Not often in one hit, but it's dire without much recovery. It is a decent -ate wall, able to use Diamond Storm to race against Dragonite and friends. But that Ground weakness accompanied by a Water weakness is a large issue.

Thankfully, Porygon-Z and Drampa are actually decently usable. (The latter especially in Trick Room)
 
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Hey guys, so I can't believe I actually did this but for my 1K special I wanted to actually create a sorta guide video on the Mix and Mega metagame to help out new players. Am planning to do this for every popular OM as well.


Would really appreciate if you guys would like and share the video to others interested in this metagame. The watermark should not come up next time.

Happy Holidays!
 
hi
I haven't seen any real discussion of Cress checks so I thought I'd post some

Solgaleo @ Normalium Z / Leftovers / Expert Belt
Ability: Full Metal Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Splash / Wild Charge / etc
- Sunsteel Strike
- Earthquake / Wild Charge
- Morning Sun

Z-splash set is kinda meme-y because you lose to either Pdon or skarm unless you forgo recovery. Also checks birds, Xern, etc
+6 0 SpA Cresselia Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Solgaleo: 144-169 (34.6 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+3 252+ Atk Solgaleo Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 229-270 (51.5 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 252+ Atk Solgaleo Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blue Orb Skarmory: 318-376 (95.2 - 112.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
+3 252+ Atk Solgaleo Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Groudon-Primal: 410-484 (101.7 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Scizor @ Scizorite/whatever
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 252 Atk / [speed creep] / [bulk]
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- X-Scissor / Bug Bite
- Bullet Punch / filler
Self explanatory, this wins much faster though

Jirachi @ Sablenite/Slowbronite/Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Toxic
- Wish
- Protect
You can make this a special attacker, run Psych Up, Skill Swap, or Calm Mind, etc.

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish/Relaxed Nature
- King's Shield
- Shadow Claw
- Toxic
- Substitute
...don't run this. It does make it v difficult for cress to break its sub, though.
+4 0 SpA Cresselia Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aegislash-Shield: 67-79 (20.6 - 24.3%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

Kyurem-White @ Leftovers
Ability: Turboblaze
EVs: 56 HP / 200 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Roost
- Toxic
- Ice Beam
Can't switch in and dislikes Moonblast, but you should be able to 1v1. More bulk is an option to take hits better:
0 SpA Cresselia Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Kyurem-White: 94-112 (20.7 - 24.6%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

basically anything @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- [recovery]
- Toxic
- [attack]
Again, self explanatory. Works best on steel/poison/fire types so you aren't weak to Moonblast.

Lunala @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Moongeist Beam
Wins the CM war thanks to the SE hit, even surviving a crit:
+6 0 SpA Cresselia Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Lunala on a critical hit: 304-358 (73.2 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Also a great stallbreaker in general once dark types are gone.

Magearna @ Venusaurite
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heart Swap
- Fleur Cannon
- Flash Cannon
- Aura Sphere
Heart Swap ignores MBounce. This is really customisable - you can run physical sets, sheer force, etc.
0 SpA Cresselia Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (nonmega) Magearna: 37-44 (12.2 - 14.6%) -- possible 7HKO
+4 252+ SpA (nonmega) Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 415-490 (93.4 - 110.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

This is just a sample of sets that came to mind. None of these are hard to fit on teams, nor are they limited to just checking Cress (except, like, Aegislash, but that's bad lmao).
 
Jerry311 said:
ive heard we don't do complex bans here, but if we could ban certain mons from only certain stones, we could have some pretty fun sets. like, specifically ban cres from sablenite so I could use like gyaradosite or something. also, fix forms please. I tried using wishiwashi. it didn't work. had school form and used sablenite, it went right back to solo. powerful ~180 on both defenses. replay: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmegasuspecttest-506042497
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It is highly unlikely the Mix and Mega council will undergo such complex bans. That opens several floodgates really quickly. Besides, it will just move on to Slowbronite or something else.

As for the Wishwashi thing, it keeps the stats of the solo form. It's quite bad in Mix and Mega. Sorry to dash your hopes.
 
If a Pokémon with multiple Formes that it can change between mid-battle Mega Evolves, it is locked into a Mega based on that Forme. (ie: Meloetta) Transform/Imposter, Protean, and Color Change are not Forme changes
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Really Wishiwashi should retain its form, but alternative forms have never worked as intended in MnM, either because no one can figure out the code or no one cares enough to change it. Sad, because there's a lot of untapped potential here with certain mons. Oh well.
 
and a trick room team with wishiwashi would be so amazing... sablenite would give it 1 speed and insane bulk with its already crazy power. plus, if it worked correctly, you wouldn't have to deal with staying above 1/4th hp. my trick room setter on the team before I realized wishiwashi doesn't work was non mega cres. basicly a rest lum recycle set which is crazy I know. never got to use it because I deleted the team right after wishiwashi didn't work.
 
Hey,

I'd like to announce that InfernapeTropius11 and Zephyr Dragon Lord have been added to the Mix and Mega Council. They were already helping with the Viability rankings and the MnM Analysis, taking initiative on their own. The council has pondered on the decision to add more council members but we're confident in our decision to add Zephyr and IT11, who has both expressed interest in joining the council. Currently we'll work on getting them up to date and assigning some work to them!


regigigas.gif
regigigas.gif
Regigigas has become a huge threat in the metagame. We all know what it does. It's bigger, badder and way to much for the metagame to handle. The only flaw it has is being vulnerable to Ghost types and the lack of recovery/boosting moves. The council is therefore going to be discussing wether Regigigas is worthy of a quick-ban and will hopefully reach a decision within the next week, although we'll give the metagame some time to rest after the Cresselia Suspect.

Thank you,
Grains of Salt
 
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Grains of Salt said:
Hey,

I'd like to announce that InfernapeTropius11 and Zephyr Dragon Lord have been added to the Mix and Mega Council. They were already helping with the Viability rankings and the MnM Analysis, taking initiative on their own. The council has pondered on the decision to add more council members but we're confident in our decision to add Zephyr and IT11, who has both expressed interest in joining the council. Currently we'll work on getting them up to date and assigning some work to them!


View attachment 75689 View attachment 75689 View attachment 75689 View attachment 75689 View attachment 75689View attachment 75689
Regigigas has become a huge threat in the metagame. We all know what it does. It's bigger, badder and way to much for the metagame to handle. The only flaw it has is being vulnerable to Ghost types and the lack of recovery/boosting moves. The council is therefore going to be discussing wether Regigigas is worthy of a quick-ban and will hopefully reach a decision within the next week, although we'll give the metagame some time to rest after the Cresselia Suspect.

Thank you,
Grains of Salt
Click to expand...


I'd say suspect simply because as an offensive mon it has solid counters and its best coverage moves are rather weak at 75 BP, and it also has severe 4mss.
 
Deagle M40 said:
I'd say suspect simply because as an offensive mon it has solid counters and its best coverage moves are rather weak at 75 BP, and it also has severe 4mss.
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Those factors don't matter too much when the coverage it does have hits the whole tier for at least neutral. With at least 170 base Attack and Tough claws. And is able to boost up while attacking. And has obscene bulk on top of all that. The Elemental Punches become more than serviceable when Regigigas can ignore all of its negatives.

I think most of us agree that Regigigas needs to go very soon.

EDIT: We might end up suspecting it anyways. Even though Regigigas is powerful, it isn't unanswerable. We can certainly afford a suspect instead. Apologies for any confusion here.
 
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Grains of Salt said:
Hey,

I'd like to announce that InfernapeTropius11 and Zephyr Dragon Lord have been added to the Mix and Mega Council. They were already helping with the Viability rankings and the MnM Analysis, taking initiative on their own. The council has pondered on the decision to add more council members but we're confident in our decision to add Zephyr and IT11, who has both expressed interest in joining the council. Currently we'll work on getting them up to date and assigning some work to them!


View attachment 75689 View attachment 75689
Regigigas has become a huge threat in the metagame. We all know what it does. It's bigger, badder and way to much for the metagame to handle. The only flaw it has is being vulnerable to Ghost types and the lack of recovery/boosting moves. The council is therefore going to be discussing wether Regigigas is worthy of a quick-ban and will hopefully reach a decision within the next week, although we'll give the metagame some time to rest after the Cresselia Suspect.

Thank you,
Grains of Salt
Click to expand...

About this, if we are going to ban regi can we please do it via suspect? Quick bans are usually reserved for when a metagame is in its very early stages and is used for something that is exceptionally broken. The fact that we have already done a suspect rest for cresselia shows that we have already advanced beyond the quickban stage and the fact that regi wasn't overpowered enough to be suspected first I think voids any reason for it to be quickbanned without a community vote. Thanks.
 
M'joe'ra said:
About this, if we are going to ban regi can we please do it via suspect? Quick bans are usually reserved for when a metagame is in its very early stages and is used for something that is exceptionally broken. The fact that we have already done a suspect rest for cresselia shows that we have already advanced beyond the quickban stage and the fact that regi wasn't overpowered enough to be suspected first I think voids any reason for it to be quickbanned without a community vote. Thanks.
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Don't worry. If there is a slither of doubt that Regigigas isn't broken a council member will speak up (Quantumn Tesseract has already voted against a quick ban, though he might change his vote). We wont ban something until the entire council, who represent the community, agrees. It's a safety net against rash decisions.
 
I Something has been severely bugging me. Why are we allowed to use Pokemon like Arceus, but not stones like Aggronite? I mean, if we're going by what's availible in Sun and Moon, or will eb through Pokebank, then why? Mix and Mega is basically more limited Hackmons, so why is it being limited even further?
 
AncientBeing said:
I Something has been severely bugging me. Why are we allowed to use Pokemon like Arceus, but not stones like Aggronite? I mean, if we're going by what's availible in Sun and Moon, or will eb through Pokebank, then why? Mix and Mega is basically more limited Hackmons, so why is it being limited even further?
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You can transfer Pokemon through Pokebank, but not items. That's why bank-only Pokemon like Arceus + whatever else are allowed but items like gems and certain stones aren't allowed. Also, to say MNM is like BH would be pretty false as they're not alike even in the slightest. That's like saying OU is a limited BH, doesn't really make much sense.
 
The Immortal said:
After contemplating and discussing it with scpinion, we decided not to allow unreleased stones. Allowing unreleased stones would open up the door to other OMs using unreleased stuff, which is not what we want. We want to maintain some resemblance to standard tiers and we don't want to give special treatment to one OM. It sucks, but this is the policy we feel is best.
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After looking at this more carefully, there's some really big flaws with this reasoning.

For one, the door is already open. Balanced Hackmons, as you admit, is already getting this special treatment, so why should Mix and Mega not? They're admittedly two very similar metagames that consist of mechancs that are not achievable in the real games. As the post above me put in very good words: the ultimate similarity between Balanced Hackmons and Mix and Mega is that they're simply designed for fun and, again, do not follow the mechanics of the real games. It should not have the limitations from the real games as it's not based on the real game itself. This was the reasoning behind BH, so again, what makes Mix and Mega different? You're already giving special treatment to one OM as you said, so that part of the reasoning becomes completely unnecessary and untrue. As for "opening the door to other metagames," I believe that Mix and Mega is already one of the most unique, and unachievable-in-reality metagames that we have (EVEN MORESO than BH) so this would be a fair exception. My firm belief is that OMs should focus on fun rather than having resemblance to any tier (come on now, the point of OMs is to literally be distinguishable from standard tiers already).

We want to maintain some resemblance to standard tiers
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I think Mix and Mega will not have any resemblance to any standard tier as long as we allow six mega evolutions per game and allow any stone to be used on any Pokemon, so I do not get this point. It lacks any real resemblance to the real games already, so why should this be a problem? If you really wanted to resemble actual tiers, wouldn't you focus more on limiting the amount of Megas per team?

I'm tagging The Immortal and scpinion to strongly urge them to reconsider this decision. There's no valid reason to limit the enjoyment of a metagame that already is only playable on an online Pokemon simulator and which the whole basis of is unachievable mechanics that do not have any resemblance to standard tiers.
 
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Declarity said:
After looking at this more carefully, there's some really big flaws with this reasoning.

For one, the door is already open. Balanced Hackmons, as you admit, is already getting this special treatment, so why should Mix and Mega not? They're admittedly two very similar metagames that consist of mechancs that are not achievable in the real games. As the post above me put in very good words: the ultimate similarity between Balanced Hackmons and Mix and Mega is that they're simply designed for fun and, again, do not follow the mechanics of the real games. It should not have the limitations from the real games as it's not based on the real game itself. This was the reasoning behind BH, so again, what makes Mix and Mega different?


I think Mix and Mega will not have any resemblance to any standard tier as long as we allow six mega evolutions per game and allow any stone to be used on any Pokemon, so I do not get this point. It lacks any real resemblance to the real games already, so why should this be a problem? If you really wanted to resemble actual tiers, wouldn't you focus more on limiting the amount of Megas per team?

I'm tagging The Immortal and scpinion to strongly urge them to reconsider this decision. There's no valid reason to limit the enjoyment of a metagame that already is only playable on an online Pokemon simulator and which the whole basis of is unachievable mechanics.
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While I also feel like Mix and Mega would be better off with all stones, BH is not getting special treatment; only really AAA is, and Lcass has given solid reasons why. The fundamental principle of Mix and Mega is that if your Pokémon carries a mega stone, it can gain the boosts from that stone, regardless of how many other megas you have. That's it, and every other change is for balance, such as banning Ubers from mega evolving or limiting stones to two of each type. Simply put, if your Zygarde can't carry an altarianite, it cant get those. Balanced hackmons, meanwhile, allows you to hack things in. Thus, anything that can be obtained by hacking (such as unreleased Pokémon) is allowed.
 
Declarity said:
After looking at this more carefully, there's some really big flaws with this reasoning.

For one, the door is already open. Balanced Hackmons, as you admit, is already getting this special treatment, so why should Mix and Mega not? They're admittedly two very similar metagames that consist of mechancs that are not achievable in the real games. As the post above me put in very good words: the ultimate similarity between Balanced Hackmons and Mix and Mega is that they're simply designed for fun and, again, do not follow the mechanics of the real games. It should not have the limitations from the real games as it's not based on the real game itself. This was the reasoning behind BH, so again, what makes Mix and Mega different?


I think Mix and Mega will not have any resemblance to any standard tier as long as we allow six mega evolutions per game and allow any stone to be used on any Pokemon, so I do not get this point. It lacks any real resemblance to the real games already, so why should this be a problem? If you really wanted to resemble actual tiers, wouldn't you focus more on limiting the amount of Megas per team?

I'm tagging The Immortal and scpinion to strongly urge them to reconsider this decision. There's no valid reason to limit the enjoyment of a metagame that already is only playable on an online Pokemon simulator and which the whole basis of is unachievable mechanics.
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What special treatment is BH getting, exactly? It follows (or tries to follow) what's possible in hacked cartridge battles as closely as possible. This means Arceus formes all being Normal type unless they have Multitype and either a Plate or a Z-Crystal, even if multiple types of Arceus that could have different items and abilities could be a valuable addition to the metagame. If anything, BH is the closest to being a real tier out of every other OM, except AG and Monotype.
 
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