Stat drops cap at 1. So Pheromosa ends up with 1 in each defense.
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M&M Mix and Mega
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Ok. I thought I was sick with Quiver Dance Diancite Pheromosa lol.
chill post regarding my current thoughts on the current meta:
whilst I have been delving into balance quite a bit, I've been thinking about it and I still believe offense (not bulky, just pure offense) is the best style in mnm atm. the amount of strong attackers that synergize well with eachother as well as the natural bulk they provide are really integral to this. previously I found that one of the biggest issues with offense in general was that lunala was always going to be a good pick vs it, but now that I've played around with a bunch of options regarding dark types, which I will mention later, I do think that lunala does not have nearly the griphold I once thought it had on viable offense structures and I believe that offense itself can start branching out a bit more now that these mons have been uncovered again.
solgaleo: whilst I still believe metagrossite is the better set with regards to its balance & bulky offense applications, 4 attacks aero solg is what I find to be a considerably better fit on offense due to the lack of terrakion and other base 130s in the current metagame. aero solg's damage output is insane on a base level - it is capable of straight up 2hkoing sab bro without hazards on the field and can significantly damage even a shadow shield lunala in a pinch. the major issue regarding 4a aero is some slight 4mss regarding choices of flare blitz, wild charge or crunch as coverage, but I personally believe crunch / wild charge to be the best two.
/ 
eternatus - defensive eternatus is garbage. its initial damage output right now is simply not sustainable enough to be relied on and its defensive roles are limited compared to other options like aggronite slowking-galar. however, I do think offensive (LO 3 attacks, power herb 4 attacks) are good options in the current metagame. their better damage output and overall better coverage towards the metagame, and ability to pressure switchins like rhyperior, solgaleo and ho-oh much more effectively generally tends to make offensive etern a more valued pick as it is still difficult to OHKO even without much defensive investment, and can tank strong priority if absolutely necessary.
/
/
heracronite tyranitar, scizorite weavile & altarianite hydreigon: dark types are trending! these three mons tend to be powerful team options in the current metagame due to either a lack of resistances to their STABs, and either their speed tier or their bulk combined with unique typings give them an interesting niche.
heracronite tyranitar is an excellent stealth rock user atm, being able to best even corviknight as hazard control due to tyranitar's newfound access to rock blast, allowing it to do significant enough, semi-reliable damage to corviknight. this also gives it a good niche as a fire check, as even when burned, rock blast will still be capable of doing enough to fire types to the point where they will either find their position unrecoverable or will straight up faint.
weavile is the newest of these three that I have tried out, and despite having fairly limited team structure viability due to beat up almost being a required move on it, when given this support weavile is easily one of the scariest breakers in the metagame. although mostly walled by magearna, due to its plateaued viability, weavile still manages to get many chances to wallbreak and claim a mon early game due to the plethora of high attack physical attackers that synergize well with weavile builds, such as rhyperior and dragonite.
hydreigon is something I believe has an interesting niche with altarianite as a wallbreaker with a unique defensive role. prior to dlc 2, I wouldn't really think of using this over blastoisinite or gardevoirite with earth power, but the lack of altarianite arcanine in the current metagame and non-suffocating viability of magearna allows hydreigon to significantly cripple common defensive cores, especially on webs builds. it specifically takes advantage of the high amount of dragons & psychics seen on teams and like weavile, preys upon the teams that lack the specific resistances required to beat these threats effectively. when combined with the ability to switch consistently into common staples lunala and slowbro, hydreigon ends up having a moderately interesting niche that I hope gets explored more this ompl.
credit where credit is due - shoutouts to xavgb for introducing me to scizorite weavile and showcasing its effectiveness in the metagame.
whilst I have been delving into balance quite a bit, I've been thinking about it and I still believe offense (not bulky, just pure offense) is the best style in mnm atm. the amount of strong attackers that synergize well with eachother as well as the natural bulk they provide are really integral to this. previously I found that one of the biggest issues with offense in general was that lunala was always going to be a good pick vs it, but now that I've played around with a bunch of options regarding dark types, which I will mention later, I do think that lunala does not have nearly the griphold I once thought it had on viable offense structures and I believe that offense itself can start branching out a bit more now that these mons have been uncovered again.
solgaleo: whilst I still believe metagrossite is the better set with regards to its balance & bulky offense applications, 4 attacks aero solg is what I find to be a considerably better fit on offense due to the lack of terrakion and other base 130s in the current metagame. aero solg's damage output is insane on a base level - it is capable of straight up 2hkoing sab bro without hazards on the field and can significantly damage even a shadow shield lunala in a pinch. the major issue regarding 4a aero is some slight 4mss regarding choices of flare blitz, wild charge or crunch as coverage, but I personally believe crunch / wild charge to be the best two. / eternatus - defensive eternatus is garbage. its initial damage output right now is simply not sustainable enough to be relied on and its defensive roles are limited compared to other options like aggronite slowking-galar. however, I do think offensive (LO 3 attacks, power herb 4 attacks) are good options in the current metagame. their better damage output and overall better coverage towards the metagame, and ability to pressure switchins like rhyperior, solgaleo and ho-oh much more effectively generally tends to make offensive etern a more valued pick as it is still difficult to OHKO even without much defensive investment, and can tank strong priority if absolutely necessary. / / heracronite tyranitar, scizorite weavile & altarianite hydreigon: dark types are trending! these three mons tend to be powerful team options in the current metagame due to either a lack of resistances to their STABs, and either their speed tier or their bulk combined with unique typings give them an interesting niche.heracronite tyranitar is an excellent stealth rock user atm, being able to best even corviknight as hazard control due to tyranitar's newfound access to rock blast, allowing it to do significant enough, semi-reliable damage to corviknight. this also gives it a good niche as a fire check, as even when burned, rock blast will still be capable of doing enough to fire types to the point where they will either find their position unrecoverable or will straight up faint.
weavile is the newest of these three that I have tried out, and despite having fairly limited team structure viability due to beat up almost being a required move on it, when given this support weavile is easily one of the scariest breakers in the metagame. although mostly walled by magearna, due to its plateaued viability, weavile still manages to get many chances to wallbreak and claim a mon early game due to the plethora of high attack physical attackers that synergize well with weavile builds, such as rhyperior and dragonite.
hydreigon is something I believe has an interesting niche with altarianite as a wallbreaker with a unique defensive role. prior to dlc 2, I wouldn't really think of using this over blastoisinite or gardevoirite with earth power, but the lack of altarianite arcanine in the current metagame and non-suffocating viability of magearna allows hydreigon to significantly cripple common defensive cores, especially on webs builds. it specifically takes advantage of the high amount of dragons & psychics seen on teams and like weavile, preys upon the teams that lack the specific resistances required to beat these threats effectively. when combined with the ability to switch consistently into common staples lunala and slowbro, hydreigon ends up having a moderately interesting niche that I hope gets explored more this ompl.
credit where credit is due - shoutouts to xavgb for introducing me to scizorite weavile and showcasing its effectiveness in the metagame.
I share some samples I've tried.
Gyarados (M) @ Sceptilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Outrage
- Iron Head
Who wouldn't have imagined Water/Dragon-Type Mega Gyarados? And Sceptilite gives it Lightning Rod, so it can nullify its x4 weakness. That one turn will be good chance for Dragon Dance.
Raichu (M) @ Banettite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Charm
- Eerie Impulse
- Volt Switch
- Encore
Only Mew and Raichu learn both Charm and Eerie Impuilse. This Raichu's purpose is to stop Rank-Up sweepers, unless they have Dark-Type.
Cursola (F) @ Heracronite
Ability: Perish Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Pin Missile
- Burning Jealousy
Did you know Cursola have three 2-5 hit moves? With trick room setter, it can go wild for 3 turns.
I want to credit the user who told me Burning Jealousy, but I can't remember his/her nickname.
Hatterene (F) @ Sablenite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Expanding Force (or Psychic or Psyshock)
- Misty Explosion
- Healing Wish
A slowest trick room setter with Magic Bounce, before and after Mega Evolve. And it can retire after setting Trick Room immediately, by Misty Explosion or Healing Wish. Though, I wonder if it needs two purpose to retire, or just one will be enough.
Blissey (F) @ Slowbronite
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Calm Mind
- Soft-Boiled
- Thunder
- Blizzard
I don't think Max HP 652 and 714 make big difference, so I just gave 4 EV to HP (to make it even number) and raised Sp. Atk. Blissey is not a fast pokemon, so I minimized its speed, wishing it can resist to Trick Room party. I used to use Thunder and Blizzard to raise damage (and since I use Blissey with party with Snow Warning), but their stability lacks.
Gyarados (M) @ Sceptilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Outrage
- Iron Head
Who wouldn't have imagined Water/Dragon-Type Mega Gyarados? And Sceptilite gives it Lightning Rod, so it can nullify its x4 weakness. That one turn will be good chance for Dragon Dance.
Raichu (M) @ Banettite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Charm
- Eerie Impulse
- Volt Switch
- Encore
Only Mew and Raichu learn both Charm and Eerie Impuilse. This Raichu's purpose is to stop Rank-Up sweepers, unless they have Dark-Type.
Cursola (F) @ Heracronite
Ability: Perish Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Pin Missile
- Burning Jealousy
Did you know Cursola have three 2-5 hit moves? With trick room setter, it can go wild for 3 turns.
I want to credit the user who told me Burning Jealousy, but I can't remember his/her nickname.
Hatterene (F) @ Sablenite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Expanding Force (or Psychic or Psyshock)
- Misty Explosion
- Healing Wish
A slowest trick room setter with Magic Bounce, before and after Mega Evolve. And it can retire after setting Trick Room immediately, by Misty Explosion or Healing Wish. Though, I wonder if it needs two purpose to retire, or just one will be enough.
I made similar one before reading your post:
Blissey (F) @ Slowbronite
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Calm Mind
- Soft-Boiled
- Thunder
- Blizzard
I don't think Max HP 652 and 714 make big difference, so I just gave 4 EV to HP (to make it even number) and raised Sp. Atk. Blissey is not a fast pokemon, so I minimized its speed, wishing it can resist to Trick Room party. I used to use Thunder and Blizzard to raise damage (and since I use Blissey with party with Snow Warning), but their stability lacks.
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Oddly enough, I don't see too many Lando-T running around.
/
tea (Landorus-Therian) (M) @ Salamencite / Altarianite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Body Slam
- Defog / Stealth Rock
- U-turn / Explosion
The ability to slow down ESpeed abusers with its innate Intimidate is kind of necessary in MnM. Well, I guess it helps with non-ESpeed mons. As always, Landorus provides great defensive utility that's always useful.
I tend to pair Landorus-Therian with two other Pokémon, though.
no fun allowed (Toxapex) (F) @ Banettite
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Haze
- Recover
- Toxic
- Liquidation / Scald
/
please stop (Solgaleo) @ Venusaurite / Latiasite
Ability: Full Metal Body
EVs: 252 HP / 8 Atk / 212 Def / 36 SpD (idk what this EV spread is supposed to do but i dont need max atk)
Impish Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Thunder Wave
- Morning Sun
- Psychic Fangs / who cares honestly
No ESpeed mon gets past you now. Solgaleo's stone depends on what you're afraid of: Entei or Dragonite. Toxapex tends to handle Entei very well, so I lean mostly towards Latiasite Solgaleo to prevent Dragonite from hitting me with Earthquake if Landorus is too weakened.
anyway what im trying to say is uhh
Ban Zygarde.
I shouldn't have to run three Pokémon to keep all ESpeeders in check, without even checking the main ESpeeder properly.
maybe it'll be banned after ompl am i right haha lol
/tea (Landorus-Therian) (M) @ Salamencite / Altarianite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Body Slam
- Defog / Stealth Rock
- U-turn / Explosion
The ability to slow down ESpeed abusers with its innate Intimidate is kind of necessary in MnM. Well, I guess it helps with non-ESpeed mons. As always, Landorus provides great defensive utility that's always useful.
I tend to pair Landorus-Therian with two other Pokémon, though.
no fun allowed (Toxapex) (F) @ Banettite
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Haze
- Recover
- Toxic
- Liquidation / Scald
/please stop (Solgaleo) @ Venusaurite / Latiasite
Ability: Full Metal Body
EVs: 252 HP / 8 Atk / 212 Def / 36 SpD (idk what this EV spread is supposed to do but i dont need max atk)
Impish Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Thunder Wave
- Morning Sun
- Psychic Fangs / who cares honestly
No ESpeed mon gets past you now. Solgaleo's stone depends on what you're afraid of: Entei or Dragonite. Toxapex tends to handle Entei very well, so I lean mostly towards Latiasite Solgaleo to prevent Dragonite from hitting me with Earthquake if Landorus is too weakened.
252+ Atk Entei @ Altarianite Stomping Tantrum vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex @ Banettite: 104-124 (34.3 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ Atk Pixilate Dragonite @ Altarianite Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Solgaleo @ Latiasite: 127-150 (26.5 - 31.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO (lmfao)
-1 252+ Atk Pixilate Dragonite @ Altarianite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian @ Salamencite: 108-127 (33.8 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Entei @ Altarianite Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Thick Fat Solgaleo @ Venusaurite: 116-138 (24.2 - 28.8%) -- 98.3% chance to 4HKO
Now, let's play a game.
+2 252+ Atk Pixilate Dragonite @ Altarianite Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Solgaleo @ Latiasite: 127-150 (26.5 - 31.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO (lmfao)
-1 252+ Atk Pixilate Dragonite @ Altarianite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian @ Salamencite: 108-127 (33.8 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Entei @ Altarianite Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Thick Fat Solgaleo @ Venusaurite: 116-138 (24.2 - 28.8%) -- 98.3% chance to 4HKO
Now, let's play a game.
"Your opponent's Zygarde switches in on your Diancite Cleffa. You're sure that it's Lucarionite, as they had Altarianite Entei and Pinsirite Dragonite on their team. Which do you switch in?" | Answers |
Latiasite Solgaleo definitely tanks two hits! | No, it doesn't. 252+ Atk Adaptability Zygarde @ Lucarionite Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Solgaleo @ Latiasite: 264-312 (55.2 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. You lose! |
I think it's gonna Dragon Dance... so Toxapex. | You got the right prediction! Unfortunately, it doesn't matter. 252+ Atk Adaptability Zygarde @ Lucarionite Thousand Arrows vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex @ Banettite: 224-268 (73.9 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. You lose! |
Landorus-T can Intimidate it first! | Unfortunately, Zygarde went for Dragon Dance, predicting your switch and nullifying Intimidate. 252+ Atk Adaptability Zygarde @ Lucarionite Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian @ Salamencite: 166-196 (52 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. You lose! |
anyway what im trying to say is uhh
Ban Zygarde.
I shouldn't have to run three Pokémon to keep all ESpeeders in check, without even checking the main ESpeeder properly.
maybe it'll be banned after ompl am i right haha lol
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hi everyone. ive been meaning to post something about the meta for a while now, the post above just reminded me that i wanted to, and brought up some points i wanted to discuss.
first off, i think the meta is in a pretty good place right now, where most playstyles are viable and the matches are pretty even and they're fun. i've been having a lot of fun playing the tier more often than i have in a while, both laddering and in friendlies and tours. i've been building some styles that i normally stay away from like HO and have even built one or two stall-ish teams. while some of these teams haven't worked out, it was fun to experiment with some new things and branch out from typical BlissBro BO/balance builds.
one playstyle in particular i've been having a lot of fun both building and playing lately is webs. chazm shared a webs team in the mnm discord a while back and it got me thinking and experimenting. from the games i've played in the past few weeks with webs, its a very strong playstyle, even in mnm where priority is so common. webs also enables some mons to shine that otherwise would not be too common, like hydreigon (i agree with chazm about this mon completely after playing with it more), offensive power herb 3a lunala, and kartana, which can be used on non webs teams of course, but i've found its incredibly effective on webs bc you can make it slightly bulkier and not have to worry about running max speed. hydreigon can use both altarianite and blastoisinite, both powerful stones that deal very high damage. lunala can take advantage of people commonly bringing in ho-oh, and nuking it with +1 meteor beam, clearing the way to sweep, or to allow another mon to sweep. not to mention, the bulky cm roost set is as good as ever. kartana is just kartana, if you get the chance to sd, you will just win a lot of the time. another mon i've been messing around with is groudon, again on webs. as we all know, groudon is incredibly strong, with a very high 150 base attack. it also gains psuedo stab on heat crash from its ability, which is already powerful. besides these mons, stuff like lando-t, entei and ttar are all things ive tried on webs with some success.
now, to talk about some things i wanted to point out about the post above. first of all, i totally agree with you about zygarde being incredibly strong, especially considering that it can run 2 powerful sets, and oftentimes it can be difficult to determine which set the opponent is using until later in the battle. for this post, it seems you are talking about lucarionite zygarde, which is the more dangerous set in my opinion. the mons you have chosen to deal with this threat, while passable, are far from the ideal counters/checks imo. in my experience, the best mons to deal with zygarde are slowbro, lunala and hooh. slowbro can switch into an adaptability thousand arrows, with base slowbro only taking 38-45%. it then can threaten zygarde with ice beam, having a high chance to OHKO after rocks. lunala is not quite as sturdy of a check if rocks are up, or shadow shield is broken. however, it can easily OHKO zygarde with ice beam, if it can survive thousand arrows or outrage. now onto the shakiest zygarde check i've listed here. ho-oh, if carrying whirlwind, is capable of dislodging a substituted zygarde, but is unable to switch in. the biggest problem with the checks above is that 2 of them are weak to the primary stab of zygarde. additionally, while zygarde may hit like a truck with outrage, a lot of teams are carrying fairies right now, so this is risky.
final thoughts: mix and mega is in a very good place right now imo. there are a bunch of different viable playstyles and the tier is pretty even. there wont be any tiering action until OMPL is over (i dont think), but tbh, im fine with how the meta is at the moment. the only things that could warrant any tiering action would be regieleki and zygarde, but there are pretty solid checks to both atm. now, i'd like to share some calcs.
sorry for the wall of text and thanks for reading :)
e: i dont at all mean to sound condescending or rude about the mons chosen in the post above, so sorry if it comes off that way. just wanted to share some opinions and offer some help
first off, i think the meta is in a pretty good place right now, where most playstyles are viable and the matches are pretty even and they're fun. i've been having a lot of fun playing the tier more often than i have in a while, both laddering and in friendlies and tours. i've been building some styles that i normally stay away from like HO and have even built one or two stall-ish teams. while some of these teams haven't worked out, it was fun to experiment with some new things and branch out from typical BlissBro BO/balance builds.
one playstyle in particular i've been having a lot of fun both building and playing lately is webs. chazm shared a webs team in the mnm discord a while back and it got me thinking and experimenting. from the games i've played in the past few weeks with webs, its a very strong playstyle, even in mnm where priority is so common. webs also enables some mons to shine that otherwise would not be too common, like hydreigon (i agree with chazm about this mon completely after playing with it more), offensive power herb 3a lunala, and kartana, which can be used on non webs teams of course, but i've found its incredibly effective on webs bc you can make it slightly bulkier and not have to worry about running max speed. hydreigon can use both altarianite and blastoisinite, both powerful stones that deal very high damage. lunala can take advantage of people commonly bringing in ho-oh, and nuking it with +1 meteor beam, clearing the way to sweep, or to allow another mon to sweep. not to mention, the bulky cm roost set is as good as ever. kartana is just kartana, if you get the chance to sd, you will just win a lot of the time. another mon i've been messing around with is groudon, again on webs. as we all know, groudon is incredibly strong, with a very high 150 base attack. it also gains psuedo stab on heat crash from its ability, which is already powerful. besides these mons, stuff like lando-t, entei and ttar are all things ive tried on webs with some success.
now, to talk about some things i wanted to point out about the post above. first of all, i totally agree with you about zygarde being incredibly strong, especially considering that it can run 2 powerful sets, and oftentimes it can be difficult to determine which set the opponent is using until later in the battle. for this post, it seems you are talking about lucarionite zygarde, which is the more dangerous set in my opinion. the mons you have chosen to deal with this threat, while passable, are far from the ideal counters/checks imo. in my experience, the best mons to deal with zygarde are slowbro, lunala and hooh. slowbro can switch into an adaptability thousand arrows, with base slowbro only taking 38-45%. it then can threaten zygarde with ice beam, having a high chance to OHKO after rocks. lunala is not quite as sturdy of a check if rocks are up, or shadow shield is broken. however, it can easily OHKO zygarde with ice beam, if it can survive thousand arrows or outrage. now onto the shakiest zygarde check i've listed here. ho-oh, if carrying whirlwind, is capable of dislodging a substituted zygarde, but is unable to switch in. the biggest problem with the checks above is that 2 of them are weak to the primary stab of zygarde. additionally, while zygarde may hit like a truck with outrage, a lot of teams are carrying fairies right now, so this is risky.
final thoughts: mix and mega is in a very good place right now imo. there are a bunch of different viable playstyles and the tier is pretty even. there wont be any tiering action until OMPL is over (i dont think), but tbh, im fine with how the meta is at the moment. the only things that could warrant any tiering action would be regieleki and zygarde, but there are pretty solid checks to both atm. now, i'd like to share some calcs.
zygarde calcs:
252+ Atk Adaptability Zygarde @ Lucarionite Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro @ Sablenite: 114-136 (28.9 - 34.5%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Adaptability Zygarde @ Lucarionite Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro @ Sablenite: 152-180 (38.5 - 45.6%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Slowbro @ Sablenite Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zygarde @ Lucarionite: 316-376 (88.5 - 105.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Adaptability Zygarde @ Lucarionite Outrage vs. 196 HP / 132 Def Lunala: 282-334 (60.7 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
108+ SpA Lunala Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zygarde @ Lucarionite: 424-500 (118.7 - 140%) -- guaranteed OHKO
hydreigon calcs:
252 SpA Mega Launcher Hydreigon @ Blastoisinite Dark Pulse vs. 196 HP / 72 SpD Shadow Shield Lunala: 432-510 (93.1 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Hydreigon @ Altarianite Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro @ Sablenite: 252-296 (63.9 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Slowbro @ Sablenite Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon @ Altarianite: 83-98 (25.5 - 30.1%) -- 5.4% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Hydreigon @ Altarianite Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kartana @ Metagrossite: 265-313 (102.3 - 120.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Pixilate Hydreigon @ Altarianite Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zygarde @ Lucarionite: 440-518 (123.2 - 145%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Adaptability Zygarde @ Lucarionite Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon @ Altarianite: 204-242 (62.7 - 74.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
offensive lunala calcs:
+1 252+ SpA Lunala Meteor Beam vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 592-700 (142.3 - 168.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Lunala Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro @ Sablenite: 446-528 (113.1 - 134%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Lunala Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey @ Ampharosite: 304-358 (42.5 - 50.1%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ SpA Lunala Moongeist Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kartana @ Metagrossite: 475-559 (183.3 - 215.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Lunala Moongeist Beam vs. 196 HP / 72 SpD Lunala: 984-1164 (212 - 250.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
groudon calcs:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Groudon Heat Crash (120 BP) vs. 196 HP / 132 Def Lunala in Sun: 541-637 (116.5 - 137.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro @ Sablenite: 290-343 (73.6 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Solgaleo @ Metagrossite: 463-546 (111.5 - 131.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(btw idt groudon is actually that good, its just kinda funny to put on webs teams)
252+ Atk Adaptability Zygarde @ Lucarionite Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro @ Sablenite: 114-136 (28.9 - 34.5%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Adaptability Zygarde @ Lucarionite Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro @ Sablenite: 152-180 (38.5 - 45.6%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Slowbro @ Sablenite Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zygarde @ Lucarionite: 316-376 (88.5 - 105.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Adaptability Zygarde @ Lucarionite Outrage vs. 196 HP / 132 Def Lunala: 282-334 (60.7 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
108+ SpA Lunala Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zygarde @ Lucarionite: 424-500 (118.7 - 140%) -- guaranteed OHKO
hydreigon calcs:
252 SpA Mega Launcher Hydreigon @ Blastoisinite Dark Pulse vs. 196 HP / 72 SpD Shadow Shield Lunala: 432-510 (93.1 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Hydreigon @ Altarianite Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro @ Sablenite: 252-296 (63.9 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Slowbro @ Sablenite Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon @ Altarianite: 83-98 (25.5 - 30.1%) -- 5.4% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Hydreigon @ Altarianite Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kartana @ Metagrossite: 265-313 (102.3 - 120.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Pixilate Hydreigon @ Altarianite Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zygarde @ Lucarionite: 440-518 (123.2 - 145%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Adaptability Zygarde @ Lucarionite Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon @ Altarianite: 204-242 (62.7 - 74.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
offensive lunala calcs:
+1 252+ SpA Lunala Meteor Beam vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 592-700 (142.3 - 168.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Lunala Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro @ Sablenite: 446-528 (113.1 - 134%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Lunala Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey @ Ampharosite: 304-358 (42.5 - 50.1%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ SpA Lunala Moongeist Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kartana @ Metagrossite: 475-559 (183.3 - 215.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Lunala Moongeist Beam vs. 196 HP / 72 SpD Lunala: 984-1164 (212 - 250.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
groudon calcs:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Groudon Heat Crash (120 BP) vs. 196 HP / 132 Def Lunala in Sun: 541-637 (116.5 - 137.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro @ Sablenite: 290-343 (73.6 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Solgaleo @ Metagrossite: 463-546 (111.5 - 131.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(btw idt groudon is actually that good, its just kinda funny to put on webs teams)
sorry for the wall of text and thanks for reading :)
e: i dont at all mean to sound condescending or rude about the mons chosen in the post above, so sorry if it comes off that way. just wanted to share some opinions and offer some help
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I agree Zygarde is a problem, but I wonder if banning Mega Zygarde will be enough or not. How do you think?Oddly enough, I don't see too many Lando-T running around.
tea (Landorus-Therian) (M) @ Salamencite / Altarianite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Body Slam
- Defog / Stealth Rock
- U-turn / Explosion
The ability to slow down ESpeed abusers with its innate Intimidate is kind of necessary in MnM. Well, I guess it helps with non-ESpeed mons. As always, Landorus provides great defensive utility that's always useful.
I tend to pair Landorus-Therian with two other Pokémon, though.
no fun allowed (Toxapex) (F) @ Banettite
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Haze
- Recover
- Toxic
- Liquidation / Scald
please stop (Solgaleo) @ Venusaurite / Latiasite
Ability: Full Metal Body
EVs: 252 HP / 8 Atk / 212 Def / 36 SpD (idk what this EV spread is supposed to do but i dont need max atk)
Impish Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Thunder Wave
- Morning Sun
- Psychic Fangs / who cares honestly
No ESpeed mon gets past you now. Solgaleo's stone depends on what you're afraid of: Entei or Dragonite. Toxapex tends to handle Entei very well, so I lean mostly towards Latiasite Solgaleo to prevent Dragonite from hitting me with Earthquake if Landorus is too weakened.
252+ Atk Entei @ Altarianite Stomping Tantrum vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex @ Banettite: 104-124 (34.3 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ Atk Pixilate Dragonite @ Altarianite Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Solgaleo @ Latiasite: 127-150 (26.5 - 31.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO (lmfao)
-1 252+ Atk Pixilate Dragonite @ Altarianite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian @ Salamencite: 108-127 (33.8 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Entei @ Altarianite Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Thick Fat Solgaleo @ Venusaurite: 116-138 (24.2 - 28.8%) -- 98.3% chance to 4HKO
Now, let's play a game.
anyway what im trying to say is uhh
Ban Zygarde.
I shouldn't have to run three Pokémon to keep all ESpeeders in check, without even checking the main ESpeeder properly.
maybe it'll be banned after ompl am i right haha lol
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Yeah, most of the time when people say ban regarding Mix and Mega they mean "ban from mega evolving." So if there was any action regarding zygarde it would (probably) be to ban it from mega evolving, not outright ban it from being used.
I understood. Thanks.
Hello, I am going to share my Mix to Mega team because I have already reached the TOP 11 in the ladder and I am happy to be there.
I think I have to clarify that I like Touhou (LOL).
Fujiwara no Mokou (Ho-Oh) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sacred Fire
- Roost
- Curse
Offensive Curse, and its Touhou team, so, why not? haha Hourai Elixir go brrr
Satori (Mew) @ Manectite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Volt Switch
- Stealth Rock
- Soft-Boiled
For pivoting with extreme speed users. Inspired by Satori Komeiji.
Reimu Hakurei (Toxapex) (F) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Haze
- Recover
Donate money to Reimu.
AYAYA (Corviknight) (F) @ Venusaurite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpD
Careful Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn/Power Trip
- Defog/Bulk Up
- Roost
Sometimes I used it with Bulk Up/Power Trip and sometimes I didn't, it depends on the MU. AYAYA
Yuyuko (Blissey) @ Sablenite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Stored Power
- Calm Mind
- Soft-Boiled
The broken glutton Yuyuko (Blissey) is a calm mind set that I create myself because lately the Spectriers give me a lot of problems. Also it is not a passive pokemon.
Tenshi Hinanai (Zygarde) @ Lucarionite
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Thousand Arrows
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
Haha Thousand Arrows go brr...
Nothing more to add ... except the fact that I thought of Tenshi as a nickname.
Enjoy :)
I think I have to clarify that I like Touhou (LOL).
Fujiwara no Mokou (Ho-Oh) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sacred Fire
- Roost
- Curse
Offensive Curse, and its Touhou team, so, why not? haha Hourai Elixir go brrr
Satori (Mew) @ Manectite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Volt Switch
- Stealth Rock
- Soft-Boiled
For pivoting with extreme speed users. Inspired by Satori Komeiji.
Reimu Hakurei (Toxapex) (F) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Haze
- Recover
Donate money to Reimu.
AYAYA (Corviknight) (F) @ Venusaurite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpD
Careful Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn/Power Trip
- Defog/Bulk Up
- Roost
Sometimes I used it with Bulk Up/Power Trip and sometimes I didn't, it depends on the MU. AYAYA
Yuyuko (Blissey) @ Sablenite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Stored Power
- Calm Mind
- Soft-Boiled
The broken glutton Yuyuko (Blissey) is a calm mind set that I create myself because lately the Spectriers give me a lot of problems. Also it is not a passive pokemon.
Tenshi Hinanai (Zygarde) @ Lucarionite
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Thousand Arrows
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
Haha Thousand Arrows go brr...
Nothing more to add ... except the fact that I thought of Tenshi as a nickname.
Enjoy :)
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Hiya, I made an Excel spreadsheet for Mega Stones. You can sort/filter by typing change, stat change, weight, and you can filter out the banned stones too.
I know there's a list of stones on the OP (I didn't know that before making this chart). If there was a spreadsheet from before, I don't see one here, and I CBA to dig through previous-gen threads.
I did my proofreading, but there is a non-zero chance that an error may have slipped through. Enjoy, and please let me know if I goof'd up somewhere.
I know there's a list of stones on the OP (I didn't know that before making this chart). If there was a spreadsheet from before, I don't see one here, and I CBA to dig through previous-gen threads.
I did my proofreading, but there is a non-zero chance that an error may have slipped through. Enjoy, and please let me know if I goof'd up somewhere.
I had multiple people telling me they liked the teams i brougth im ompl, which is why im gonna post the paste of them.
W1
https://pokepast.es/3aa290fe82553815
W2
https://pokepast.es/3c0e8c36398ca1d2
W3
https://pokepast.es/be152c4e20da8c39
W4
https://pokepast.es/14d1032944d43055
W5
https://pokepast.es/7da48ee76f8cd439
W6
https://pokepast.es/32c92ddbc4624bff
W7
https://pokepast.es/5179a7b01e77062b
W1
https://pokepast.es/3aa290fe82553815
W2
https://pokepast.es/3c0e8c36398ca1d2
W3
https://pokepast.es/be152c4e20da8c39
W4
https://pokepast.es/14d1032944d43055
W5
https://pokepast.es/7da48ee76f8cd439
W6
https://pokepast.es/32c92ddbc4624bff
W7
https://pokepast.es/5179a7b01e77062b
ok so i've been trying this out for a bit its pretty good
pink terror (Clefable) @ Sablenite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Thunderbolt
So basically sablenite not only gives some extra spatk, but litteraly turns clef into the great wall of china which is pretty op with cm and softboiled.
pink terror (Clefable) @ Sablenite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Thunderbolt
So basically sablenite not only gives some extra spatk, but litteraly turns clef into the great wall of china which is pretty op with cm and softboiled.
Is it too late in the meta for theorymon? Played with this a bit on mid ladder a bit, it could definitely be better optimized but so far it's done pretty well.
Mew @ Sablenite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 240 HP / 60 Def / 192 SpD / 16 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Gastro Acid
- Psychic
- Soft-Boiled / U-Turn / Encore
The main purpose of this set is to act as a clear counter to Gyaradosite Shuckle. There's not much to the set, you can lead with it and fire off Gastro Acid to disable Mold Breaker and bounce its hazards (usually webs) back onto the opposing side. Because of that it does pretty well with anything that normally appreciates webs, and can act as emergency death fodder in an absolute wcs.
Bulk is mainly to survive at least one or two of the dark moves that are trending. My favorite calc?
252 SpA Mega Launcher Hydreigon @ Blastoisinite Dark Pulse vs. 240 HP / 192+ SpD Mew @ Sablenite: 276-326 (68.8 - 81.2%)
It's only one hit lived guaranteed, and you'll die next turn if you stay in, but it gives you an opportunity to switch into a dark resist.
Mew @ Sablenite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 240 HP / 60 Def / 192 SpD / 16 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Gastro Acid
- Psychic
- Soft-Boiled / U-Turn / Encore
The main purpose of this set is to act as a clear counter to Gyaradosite Shuckle. There's not much to the set, you can lead with it and fire off Gastro Acid to disable Mold Breaker and bounce its hazards (usually webs) back onto the opposing side. Because of that it does pretty well with anything that normally appreciates webs, and can act as emergency death fodder in an absolute wcs.
Bulk is mainly to survive at least one or two of the dark moves that are trending. My favorite calc?
252 SpA Mega Launcher Hydreigon @ Blastoisinite Dark Pulse vs. 240 HP / 192+ SpD Mew @ Sablenite: 276-326 (68.8 - 81.2%)
It's only one hit lived guaranteed, and you'll die next turn if you stay in, but it gives you an opportunity to switch into a dark resist.
Hey. It's pretty much never too late in the metagame to theorymon; even now, people are coming up with new sets and strategies. Not all of them work, and some of them are better than others, of course, but there's always more to learn. As for this specific set, well
The good:
1. It's creative. You can pretty much guarantee your opponent has never seen or heard of it before.
2. It has a high payoff. Not only do you keep webs off the field, you also put them on their side, so even if they later get to set them it just evens things out.
3. It works fast. Unlike some of the more complicated gimmicks, this set does its work in just a handful of turns; just one, in most cases.
4. It has some additional utility. This set is very specialized, but even if there's no webs its still a defog mew and gastro acid can be useful for removing abilities like regenerator.
The bad
1. It has a narrow niche. Unless you're playing shuckle webs, this is going to be strictly worse than other Sablenite Mews.
2. Opportunity cost. Sablenite is one of the most in demand stones in the metagame, and running this mew means you can't put it on Corviknight or Slowbro or Blissey and so on.
3. Competition. Mew is not the only Pokemon with a good matchup against webs, and some of these Pokemon are extremely good. For instance, Regieleki is one of the best Pokemon in the metagame, and with a fairy type rapid spin from Altarianite it can keep Sticky Webs off the field pretty easily in most matchups. Pokemon like Solgaleo and Landorus-T are also capable of turning around this kind of matchup, as they aren't effected by the speed drop; Landorus-T because it's a flying type, and Solgaleo because it has Full Metal Body before mega evolving.
4. Momentum. This mew needs Gastro Acid and Softboiled to function, and apparently acts as a defogger as well. This means it's reliant on only one offensive move, Psychic, which is pretty easy to switch into. Pokemon like Corviknight and Slowbro will be able to freely switch into it and then pivot out to a Pokemon of their choice, either something that beats Mew or something that beats whatever you switch in.
5. Volatility. This Mew can only deflect webs if it and Shuckle are on the field at the same time; if Shuckle sets them on the switch, Mew has to choose between defogging and potentially getting toxiced or encored, or clicking Gastro Acid and risking them switching into something that forces Mew out before they can defog. This means that if someone knows you're bringing this, there are ways they can get around it even if they're running Shuckle webs and need webs up against your team.
Overall I would probably describe it as very niche; it's hard to make work, especially the second or third time you play someone, and there are other, more generally viable Pokemon that can do well in the same matchups this Pokemon thrives in. However, there are a few use cases for the strategy, because pretty much every other Webs counterplay simply prevents them from going up on your side rather than putting them back on the opponent's side. I'm glad to hear you've been enjoying using it, and hope you continue to enjoy the Mix and Mega metagame in the future.
A few more announcements to make:
Firstly, Redflix and Catalystic have both stepped down from the council. Thank you for your various contributions to the metagame.
Fardin is also joining the council. Be sure to congratulate him whenever you see him around!
We are also launching another survey with OMPL coming to a close, with various items that have either been discussed within the council chat or in this thread. The link to the survey can be found here.
For some further explanation on the topics mentioned in the survey:
Currently, the council believes that the meta is generally very stable and that nothing is in drastic need of being banned. However, we have seen some discussion from community members mainly regarding three pokemon:
Regieleki has been rising through the ranks in the meta ever since its release in DLC 2, and can prove quite difficult to deal with thanks to the combination of some very neat tools in Volt Switch, Extreme Speed, and Explosion. Some players have brought up Regieleki's impact on the builder, as well as its ability to pressure many common switchins over time, due to the fact that most Ground types that are capable of blocking Volt Switch lack recovery, and are therefore prone to chip damage from repeated Extreme Speeds.
Solgaleo also saw some discussion during the early weeks of OMPL due to its good typing and stats, combined with a movepool that provides it some good coverage options to try and hit checks. Sets such as Aerodactylite 4 attacks popped up briefly (with Crunch being used as a way to beat Lunala and fish for defense drops against Sablenite Slowbro spamming Slack Off), which caused some concern from players regarding whether Solgaleo might end up being broken. However, within OMPL at least it didn't seem to pan out that way, with Solgaleo usage dropping towards the later stages of the tour and new bulky checks popping up that can handle Solgaleo better, such as Zygarde-Complete and Sablenite Hippowdon.
Zygarde has been brought up by various community members, though the council members don't think it is broken at the moment. Thanks to its signature move Thousand Arrows, Zygarde can be a very scary pokemon to face early in the game, due to the extra pressure of scouting whether it is using Lucarionite or Altarianite. Interestingly, Zygarde's usage this OMPL ended up being pretty low, with mega stone variants only getting 9 uses throughout the whole tour.
Pidgeotite saw a little bit of council discussion due to the proposal of banning sleep moves entirely, which was part of the broken aspect of Pidgeotite, as well as the fact that one of its most dangerous abusers in Gengar is already banned from holding stones. There are some other dangerous aspects of Pidgeotite though, such as the +65 Spa boost, the extra base power when making the switch to more powerful moves (such as Thunderbolt -> Thunder), and Zap Cannon. This could make Genesect and maybe some other special attackers too powerful in the metagame, however with our opinion of the meta being pretty stable at the moment, we felt it was worth at least slating it for future potential action.
That summarises our thoughts on these mons, so now it's time for you to let us know what you think! The survey is free for anyone to respond to, so if you've taken an interest in building or playing Mix and Mega recently and have thoughts to share, be sure to respond and give us feedback. I'll leave the survey open for about a week, after which we will report back with the results and discuss what tiering actions may be appropriate going forward.
Firstly, Redflix and Catalystic have both stepped down from the council. Thank you for your various contributions to the metagame.
Fardin is also joining the council. Be sure to congratulate him whenever you see him around!
We are also launching another survey with OMPL coming to a close, with various items that have either been discussed within the council chat or in this thread. The link to the survey can be found here.
For some further explanation on the topics mentioned in the survey:
Currently, the council believes that the meta is generally very stable and that nothing is in drastic need of being banned. However, we have seen some discussion from community members mainly regarding three pokemon:
Regieleki has been rising through the ranks in the meta ever since its release in DLC 2, and can prove quite difficult to deal with thanks to the combination of some very neat tools in Volt Switch, Extreme Speed, and Explosion. Some players have brought up Regieleki's impact on the builder, as well as its ability to pressure many common switchins over time, due to the fact that most Ground types that are capable of blocking Volt Switch lack recovery, and are therefore prone to chip damage from repeated Extreme Speeds.
Solgaleo also saw some discussion during the early weeks of OMPL due to its good typing and stats, combined with a movepool that provides it some good coverage options to try and hit checks. Sets such as Aerodactylite 4 attacks popped up briefly (with Crunch being used as a way to beat Lunala and fish for defense drops against Sablenite Slowbro spamming Slack Off), which caused some concern from players regarding whether Solgaleo might end up being broken. However, within OMPL at least it didn't seem to pan out that way, with Solgaleo usage dropping towards the later stages of the tour and new bulky checks popping up that can handle Solgaleo better, such as Zygarde-Complete and Sablenite Hippowdon.
Zygarde has been brought up by various community members, though the council members don't think it is broken at the moment. Thanks to its signature move Thousand Arrows, Zygarde can be a very scary pokemon to face early in the game, due to the extra pressure of scouting whether it is using Lucarionite or Altarianite. Interestingly, Zygarde's usage this OMPL ended up being pretty low, with mega stone variants only getting 9 uses throughout the whole tour.
Pidgeotite saw a little bit of council discussion due to the proposal of banning sleep moves entirely, which was part of the broken aspect of Pidgeotite, as well as the fact that one of its most dangerous abusers in Gengar is already banned from holding stones. There are some other dangerous aspects of Pidgeotite though, such as the +65 Spa boost, the extra base power when making the switch to more powerful moves (such as Thunderbolt -> Thunder), and Zap Cannon. This could make Genesect and maybe some other special attackers too powerful in the metagame, however with our opinion of the meta being pretty stable at the moment, we felt it was worth at least slating it for future potential action.
That summarises our thoughts on these mons, so now it's time for you to let us know what you think! The survey is free for anyone to respond to, so if you've taken an interest in building or playing Mix and Mega recently and have thoughts to share, be sure to respond and give us feedback. I'll leave the survey open for about a week, after which we will report back with the results and discuss what tiering actions may be appropriate going forward.
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hi, writing this because I'm bored and so stresh doesnt have to double post. ive been playing and building mnm quite a bit lately and ive found some fun and pretty cool sets. Some of these will already be known to people who were paying attention to mnm in OMPL, but I'll put them here anyways. I'll start off with one that most people already know about, in my opinion, one of the best mons in the meta rn, rhyperior.
Rhyperior @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 200 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance
- Stealth Rock
(Don't ask me where i got the evs, i stole them from someone during the zacian test)
Rhyperior can serve as a pretty solid blanket check to most special attackers and even some physical ones with its 115/170/75 defenses. The low special defense is patched up readily in the sand, giving it a big boost. It also has a strong offensive presence and can set up rocks relatively easily or threaten a magic bouncer by using swords dance. This thing is probably one of my favorite mons to build with rn becuase of how well it performs. However, it is also severely damaged by any super effective physical attack.
onto another pretty versatile defensive mon, that ive been finding myself use more often than slowbro nowadays.
Mew @ Manectite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Roost
- Volt Switch
- Future Sight
This set allows mew to outspeed speed boosting nature base 90s after manectite. It serves as a very solid defensive pivot that can support your breakers with future sight which is very valuable, especially if the opponent forgets about future sight. It can threaten offensive threats such as groudon and zygarde and can pivot on things like corviknight, generating momentum. This thing is a very formidable wall for physical breakers to get past, but it can be worn down depending on the rest of your team composition. The downside to using this mon over slowbro is that you are less likely to get the slow pivot and do not have access to regenerator pre mega.
Now onto the offensive guys. This mon is one i am sure any ubers players out there will recognize, a mon capable of setting up a sweep in a single turn.
Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 44 HP / 104 Def / 252 SpA / 108 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Geomancy
- Moonblast
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute
(evs stolen from mnm setpedia)
everyone who has ever played ubers or ag knows how powerful this mon can be, especially in absence of sturdy steel and fire types. If you can set up a substitute on a switch or a weak pivot move, you can easily get a geomancy off and proceed to fire off extremely powerful special moves. This mon can put in work on both HO teams and bulky offense teams that allow it to get in safely and set up. It can also serve as a very strong late game cleaner for chipped mons, even without a geomancy boost. Its attacks get shrugged off relatively easily by blissey, but blissey is unable to break a substitute using seismic toss.
Another incredibly strong special attacker coming right up
Genesect @ Cameruptite
Ability: Download
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Shift Gear
- Thunderbolt/Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Leech Life
This mon is incredibly powerful, especially if you are able to stay in after the download boost. It comes ready equipped with boltbeam coverage and has leech life + shift gear as to not get completely walled by blissey. This mon can threaten many of the very bulky mons in the tier, especially since there are very few true special walls in the tier. This can threaten mons such as rhyperior, ho-oh, slowbro, eternatus and groudon. All the calcs below obviously become much better for the genesect user if a special attack download boost is at play. In addition to the high offensive potential, 71/125/125 is not insignificant bulk for an offensive pokemon, allowing it to takes hit from things like rhyperior.
Now for some other fun mons i've been trying to use with less success as the ones above
Specs dialga: Can punch big holes in teams with very strong draco meteors, sky high special attack and great coverage
Ampharosite heatran: Can trap mons without a pivot move, serve as a soft check to regieleki pre mega, set rocks and spread status
Lucarionite victini: this mon seems so fun, it just is pretty underwhelming imo. Just click vcreate and (occasionally) reap the rewards
Cameruptite slowking-galar: This mon has good move, good power and good speed for trick room, it just suffers from 4mss, wanting 4 attacks, nasty plot and recovery at the same time.
Some thoughts on the points brought up above (i think i put most of this in my survey response but i might not have, so here we go).
Eleki is certainly a strong pokemon that brings a lot to the table on your team. It can pivot, remove hazards, provide excellent speed control using both priority and its incredible natural speed and use pixilate explosion to often take a pokemon off the board. However, it isnt broken because it can be checked through the use of a ground and a bulky manectite user. I agree in long games where regieleki is preserved and its checks are steadily worn down, it can become dangerous very quickly, but the same is so about almost any high powered, high speed mon.
Solgaleo is not broken and has some solid checks in sablenite slowbro, manectite mew, manectite magearna and can be dealt with offensively by fire types, groudon and potentially even grounds such as rhyperior or zygarde.
Zygarde is a very strong mon but it perhaps has more weaknesses than something like eleki. Many defensive mons have started to carry ice beam, such as the mew above or slowbro. Additionally, you have to choose between running big zyg or a stone, and then what set to run, deciding between bulky coil, sub ddance, and even within those sets which moves to use. It is also checkable offensively through the use of altarianite extreme speed users.
On pidgeotite: I think this would be an interesting test, on the condition that zap cannon is banned along with sleep. This would certainly give new power and new life to mons that would greatly benefit from perfectly accurate stabs, as well as potential status abuse. the outcome would probably be an inevitable do not unban, but we'll never know unless we try right?
Thanks for reading and have a good rest of your day :)
e: gz to fardin and thanks to redflix and catalystic for all that you've done for this metagame
Rhyperior @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 200 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance
- Stealth Rock
(Don't ask me where i got the evs, i stole them from someone during the zacian test)
Rhyperior can serve as a pretty solid blanket check to most special attackers and even some physical ones with its 115/170/75 defenses. The low special defense is patched up readily in the sand, giving it a big boost. It also has a strong offensive presence and can set up rocks relatively easily or threaten a magic bouncer by using swords dance. This thing is probably one of my favorite mons to build with rn becuase of how well it performs. However, it is also severely damaged by any super effective physical attack.
252+ Atk Pixilate Regieleki @ Altarianite Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior @ Tyranitarite: 115-136 (26.4 - 31.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Adaptability Spectrier @ Lucarionite Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 200+ SpD Rhyperior @ Tyranitarite in Sand: 132-156 (30.4 - 35.9%) -- 41.2% chance to 3HKO
4 SpA Magearna @ Manectite Fleur Cannon vs. 252 HP / 200+ SpD Rhyperior @ Tyranitarite in Sand: 129-153 (29.7 - 35.2%) -- 14.8% chance to 3HKO
160+ SpA Lunala Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 200+ SpD Rhyperior @ Tyranitarite in Sand: 108-127 (24.8 - 29.2%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Pixilate Entei @ Altarianite Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior @ Tyranitarite: 124-147 (28.5 - 33.8%) -- 0.9% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Adaptability Spectrier @ Lucarionite Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 200+ SpD Rhyperior @ Tyranitarite in Sand: 132-156 (30.4 - 35.9%) -- 41.2% chance to 3HKO
4 SpA Magearna @ Manectite Fleur Cannon vs. 252 HP / 200+ SpD Rhyperior @ Tyranitarite in Sand: 129-153 (29.7 - 35.2%) -- 14.8% chance to 3HKO
160+ SpA Lunala Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 200+ SpD Rhyperior @ Tyranitarite in Sand: 108-127 (24.8 - 29.2%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Pixilate Entei @ Altarianite Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior @ Tyranitarite: 124-147 (28.5 - 33.8%) -- 0.9% chance to 3HKO
onto another pretty versatile defensive mon, that ive been finding myself use more often than slowbro nowadays.
Mew @ Manectite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Roost
- Volt Switch
- Future Sight
This set allows mew to outspeed speed boosting nature base 90s after manectite. It serves as a very solid defensive pivot that can support your breakers with future sight which is very valuable, especially if the opponent forgets about future sight. It can threaten offensive threats such as groudon and zygarde and can pivot on things like corviknight, generating momentum. This thing is a very formidable wall for physical breakers to get past, but it can be worn down depending on the rest of your team composition. The downside to using this mon over slowbro is that you are less likely to get the slow pivot and do not have access to regenerator pre mega.
-1 252+ Atk Pixilate Regieleki @ Altarianite Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Mew @ Manectite: 79-94 (19.5 - 23.2%) -- possible 5HKO
-1 252 Atk Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Mew @ Manectite: 96-114 (23.7 - 28.2%) -- 91.1% chance to 4HKO
-1 252 Atk Tough Claws Kartana @ Metagrossite Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Mew @ Manectite: 162-192 (40 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-1 252+ Atk Entei @ Altarianite Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Mew @ Manectite: 90-106 (22.2 - 26.2%) -- 10.1% chance to 4HKO
Offensive Calcs for fun:
0 SpA Mew @ Manectite Future Sight vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Regieleki @ Altarianite: 313-369 (103.9 - 122.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO (assuming eleki is naughty)
0 SpA Mew @ Manectite Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zygarde @ Lucarionite: 340-400 (95.2 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Mew @ Manectite Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 28 SpD Landorus-Therian @ Salamencite: 344-408 (90.2 - 107%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
-1 252 Atk Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Mew @ Manectite: 96-114 (23.7 - 28.2%) -- 91.1% chance to 4HKO
-1 252 Atk Tough Claws Kartana @ Metagrossite Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Mew @ Manectite: 162-192 (40 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-1 252+ Atk Entei @ Altarianite Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Mew @ Manectite: 90-106 (22.2 - 26.2%) -- 10.1% chance to 4HKO
Offensive Calcs for fun:
0 SpA Mew @ Manectite Future Sight vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Regieleki @ Altarianite: 313-369 (103.9 - 122.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO (assuming eleki is naughty)
0 SpA Mew @ Manectite Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zygarde @ Lucarionite: 340-400 (95.2 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Mew @ Manectite Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 28 SpD Landorus-Therian @ Salamencite: 344-408 (90.2 - 107%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
Now onto the offensive guys. This mon is one i am sure any ubers players out there will recognize, a mon capable of setting up a sweep in a single turn.
Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 44 HP / 104 Def / 252 SpA / 108 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Geomancy
- Moonblast
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute
(evs stolen from mnm setpedia)
everyone who has ever played ubers or ag knows how powerful this mon can be, especially in absence of sturdy steel and fire types. If you can set up a substitute on a switch or a weak pivot move, you can easily get a geomancy off and proceed to fire off extremely powerful special moves. This mon can put in work on both HO teams and bulky offense teams that allow it to get in safely and set up. It can also serve as a very strong late game cleaner for chipped mons, even without a geomancy boost. Its attacks get shrugged off relatively easily by blissey, but blissey is unable to break a substitute using seismic toss.
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde-Complete: 678-800 (106.6 - 125.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 200+ SpD Rhyperior @ Tyranitarite in Sand: 277-327 (63.8 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 288-340 (69.2 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Some defensive calcs:
252+ Atk Pixilate Regieleki @ Altarianite Extreme Speed vs. 44 HP / 104 Def Fairy Aura Xerneas: 228-268 (56.4 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Pixilate Entei @ Altarianite Extreme Speed vs. 44 HP / 104 Def Fairy Aura Xerneas: 246-289 (60.8 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (entei wins this 1v1 if it is not chipped)
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 200+ SpD Rhyperior @ Tyranitarite in Sand: 277-327 (63.8 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 288-340 (69.2 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Some defensive calcs:
252+ Atk Pixilate Regieleki @ Altarianite Extreme Speed vs. 44 HP / 104 Def Fairy Aura Xerneas: 228-268 (56.4 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Pixilate Entei @ Altarianite Extreme Speed vs. 44 HP / 104 Def Fairy Aura Xerneas: 246-289 (60.8 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (entei wins this 1v1 if it is not chipped)
Another incredibly strong special attacker coming right up
Genesect @ Cameruptite
Ability: Download
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Shift Gear
- Thunderbolt/Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Leech Life
This mon is incredibly powerful, especially if you are able to stay in after the download boost. It comes ready equipped with boltbeam coverage and has leech life + shift gear as to not get completely walled by blissey. This mon can threaten many of the very bulky mons in the tier, especially since there are very few true special walls in the tier. This can threaten mons such as rhyperior, ho-oh, slowbro, eternatus and groudon. All the calcs below obviously become much better for the genesect user if a special attack download boost is at play. In addition to the high offensive potential, 71/125/125 is not insignificant bulk for an offensive pokemon, allowing it to takes hit from things like rhyperior.
252+ SpA Sheer Force Genesect @ Cameruptite Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 200+ SpD Rhyperior @ Tyranitarite in Sand: 200-236 (46 - 54.3%) -- 53.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Sheer Force Genesect @ Cameruptite Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 216-256 (51.9 - 61.5%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Sheer Force Genesect @ Cameruptite Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 358-422 (88.6 - 104.4%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Sheer Force Genesect @ Cameruptite Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eternatus: 342-404 (70.6 - 83.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Sheer Force Genesect @ Cameruptite Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 216-256 (51.9 - 61.5%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Sheer Force Genesect @ Cameruptite Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 358-422 (88.6 - 104.4%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Sheer Force Genesect @ Cameruptite Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eternatus: 342-404 (70.6 - 83.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Now for some other fun mons i've been trying to use with less success as the ones above
Specs dialga: Can punch big holes in teams with very strong draco meteors, sky high special attack and great coverage
Ampharosite heatran: Can trap mons without a pivot move, serve as a soft check to regieleki pre mega, set rocks and spread status
Lucarionite victini: this mon seems so fun, it just is pretty underwhelming imo. Just click vcreate and (occasionally) reap the rewards
Cameruptite slowking-galar: This mon has good move, good power and good speed for trick room, it just suffers from 4mss, wanting 4 attacks, nasty plot and recovery at the same time.
Some thoughts on the points brought up above (i think i put most of this in my survey response but i might not have, so here we go).
Eleki is certainly a strong pokemon that brings a lot to the table on your team. It can pivot, remove hazards, provide excellent speed control using both priority and its incredible natural speed and use pixilate explosion to often take a pokemon off the board. However, it isnt broken because it can be checked through the use of a ground and a bulky manectite user. I agree in long games where regieleki is preserved and its checks are steadily worn down, it can become dangerous very quickly, but the same is so about almost any high powered, high speed mon.
Solgaleo is not broken and has some solid checks in sablenite slowbro, manectite mew, manectite magearna and can be dealt with offensively by fire types, groudon and potentially even grounds such as rhyperior or zygarde.
Zygarde is a very strong mon but it perhaps has more weaknesses than something like eleki. Many defensive mons have started to carry ice beam, such as the mew above or slowbro. Additionally, you have to choose between running big zyg or a stone, and then what set to run, deciding between bulky coil, sub ddance, and even within those sets which moves to use. It is also checkable offensively through the use of altarianite extreme speed users.
On pidgeotite: I think this would be an interesting test, on the condition that zap cannon is banned along with sleep. This would certainly give new power and new life to mons that would greatly benefit from perfectly accurate stabs, as well as potential status abuse. the outcome would probably be an inevitable do not unban, but we'll never know unless we try right?
Thanks for reading and have a good rest of your day :)
e: gz to fardin and thanks to redflix and catalystic for all that you've done for this metagame
Now that the survey has been closed and the council has had some more time to discuss, let's go through the results!
Overall enjoyment of the metagame seems to be higher than last time we conducted a council survey, with the mean enjoyment score rising to 7.5/10. However, it is worth noting that the distribution of responses was much broader than those in the original survey, where the lowest score given was 6/10. This will be interesting to keep an eye on in the future, as the current meta seems to be more divisive than previous metas.
Respondents voted 12-6 in favour of seeing a suspect soon. Due to an error I made writing the survey it isn't immediately clear from these responses how many of the "yes" voters wanted to see a suspect to ban something from the meta, as opposed to wanting to see an suspect to free Pidgeotite. Sorry about that...
The average scores for each mon are as follows
Regieleki: 3
Solgaleo: 2.444
Zygarde: 2.556
With the highest score between the three mons being exactly 3 (which is also perfectly in the middle of the scale), it would be fair to claim that nothing is in desperate need of a suspect right now. Regardless, if we do end up targeting something for a suspect, Regieleki would most likely be next on the chopping block.
Pidgeotite saw a lot more discussion than the other aspects of the survey so I will attempt to represent everything clearly. Obviously as seen in the chart here, there were more people in favour of suspecting Pidgeotite than there were actively against it, although only 8 out of 18 voters chose that option. Several users expressed concerns over the potential of suspecting Pidgeotite, through the OM Discord, MnM council channels, and the long form responses in the actual survey, which led to some further discussion within the council regarding Pidgeotite and also regarding our future course of action. It became clear through that discussion that we weren't collectively sure on what level of impact Pidgeotite might have on the meta due to the fact that it was banned over 2 years ago, and as such we would like to do some proper playtesting of Pidgeotite before launching into an official suspect.
If you want to test Pidgeotite for yourself and talk about the results of your testing, this is the command to challenge your friends with Pidgeotite allowed:
/challenge [user], gen8mixandmega @@@ +pidgeotite
I'll once again remind everyone that freeing Pidgeotite would always come alongside sleep moves clause (where all sleep moves are completely banned), so don't bother testing sleep users with Pidgeotite.
The survey asked two more questions intended for longer replies, so I will try to summarize the thoughts expressed in this section:
- As mentioned in the Pidgeotite section, a few users used this section as an option to go more in depth on why they didn't want Pidgeotite to be freed.
Various concerns were brought up, with users mentioning the potential for the meta to be flipped on its head with the sudden addition of lots of special attackers, and some elaborating on this point by bringing up the scarcity of good special walls in the current meta. Other factors such as the uncompetitive nature of Zap Cannon and the raw strength of the stone even outside of sleep/para were brought up as well.
- A couple of users took this option to mention Genesect as a potentially unhealthy force in the metagame. Although it is a fairly new innovation, Shift Gear Cameruptite Genesect showed to be a very dangerous sweeper in several OMPL games, regularly taking advantage of the +1 Special attack that Download provides against common defensive staples such as Slowbro. While Genesect was left off the survey due to not seeing much public discussion, some council members agreed that it could potentially be too much for the metagame right now.
- A couple of responses went more in-depth on issues with the meta at large. These users were most in favour of testing Regieleki, and noted that its impact on the meta could be unhealthy mainly due to its ability to enable other dangerous threats effectively.
I'll end the recap of the survey here, thank you to everyone who participated, we will probably do this again in a few months.
TL;DR nothing happening for certain yet, we'd like to do some preliminary testing of Pidgeotite to see if it's a good idea to suspect after seeing a variety of survey responses.
Overall enjoyment of the metagame seems to be higher than last time we conducted a council survey, with the mean enjoyment score rising to 7.5/10. However, it is worth noting that the distribution of responses was much broader than those in the original survey, where the lowest score given was 6/10. This will be interesting to keep an eye on in the future, as the current meta seems to be more divisive than previous metas.
Respondents voted 12-6 in favour of seeing a suspect soon. Due to an error I made writing the survey it isn't immediately clear from these responses how many of the "yes" voters wanted to see a suspect to ban something from the meta, as opposed to wanting to see an suspect to free Pidgeotite. Sorry about that...
The average scores for each mon are as follows
Regieleki: 3
Solgaleo: 2.444
Zygarde: 2.556
With the highest score between the three mons being exactly 3 (which is also perfectly in the middle of the scale), it would be fair to claim that nothing is in desperate need of a suspect right now. Regardless, if we do end up targeting something for a suspect, Regieleki would most likely be next on the chopping block.
Pidgeotite saw a lot more discussion than the other aspects of the survey so I will attempt to represent everything clearly. Obviously as seen in the chart here, there were more people in favour of suspecting Pidgeotite than there were actively against it, although only 8 out of 18 voters chose that option. Several users expressed concerns over the potential of suspecting Pidgeotite, through the OM Discord, MnM council channels, and the long form responses in the actual survey, which led to some further discussion within the council regarding Pidgeotite and also regarding our future course of action. It became clear through that discussion that we weren't collectively sure on what level of impact Pidgeotite might have on the meta due to the fact that it was banned over 2 years ago, and as such we would like to do some proper playtesting of Pidgeotite before launching into an official suspect.
If you want to test Pidgeotite for yourself and talk about the results of your testing, this is the command to challenge your friends with Pidgeotite allowed:
/challenge [user], gen8mixandmega @@@ +pidgeotite
I'll once again remind everyone that freeing Pidgeotite would always come alongside sleep moves clause (where all sleep moves are completely banned), so don't bother testing sleep users with Pidgeotite.
The survey asked two more questions intended for longer replies, so I will try to summarize the thoughts expressed in this section:
- As mentioned in the Pidgeotite section, a few users used this section as an option to go more in depth on why they didn't want Pidgeotite to be freed.
Various concerns were brought up, with users mentioning the potential for the meta to be flipped on its head with the sudden addition of lots of special attackers, and some elaborating on this point by bringing up the scarcity of good special walls in the current meta. Other factors such as the uncompetitive nature of Zap Cannon and the raw strength of the stone even outside of sleep/para were brought up as well.
- A couple of users took this option to mention Genesect as a potentially unhealthy force in the metagame. Although it is a fairly new innovation, Shift Gear Cameruptite Genesect showed to be a very dangerous sweeper in several OMPL games, regularly taking advantage of the +1 Special attack that Download provides against common defensive staples such as Slowbro. While Genesect was left off the survey due to not seeing much public discussion, some council members agreed that it could potentially be too much for the metagame right now.
- A couple of responses went more in-depth on issues with the meta at large. These users were most in favour of testing Regieleki, and noted that its impact on the meta could be unhealthy mainly due to its ability to enable other dangerous threats effectively.
I'll end the recap of the survey here, thank you to everyone who participated, we will probably do this again in a few months.
TL;DR nothing happening for certain yet, we'd like to do some preliminary testing of Pidgeotite to see if it's a good idea to suspect after seeing a variety of survey responses.
https://pokepast.es/c39d91031da0b975
I started playing a week ago and I made this team far from good but I think its pretty fun so tell what you guys think should I change anything?
I started playing a week ago and I made this team far from good but I think its pretty fun so tell what you guys think should I change anything?
First of all, take what I say with a grain of salt. I don't play too much HO in general, let alone to the extent you've taken your team.
That being said, Altarianite Regieleki alone can sweep half your team handily.
252+ Atk Pixilate Regieleki @ Altarianite Extreme Speed vs. 16 HP / 72 Def Terrakion @ Lucarionite: 320-378 (97.8 - 115.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
----
252+ Atk Pixilate Regieleki @ Altarianite Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Lucario @ Pinsirite: 398-470 (141.1 - 166.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
----
(I'm assuming Dragon Dance on Dragonite on turn 1, which most people expect and act accordingly)
252+ Atk Pixilate Regieleki @ Altarianite Rapid Spin vs. 216 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 118-141 (31.2 - 37.4%) -- 83.4% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Pixilate Regieleki @ Altarianite Extreme Speed vs. 216 HP / 0 Def Dragonite @ Salamencite: 264-312 (70 - 82.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Granted this last one can be a tossup with predicts (turn 1 mega Dnite can still survive and OHKO with EQ, but risks losing at least half health up to 80% (through rapid spin or espeed).
----
As for the other half of your team:
Genesect can take one Wild Charge, but unless you explode, you can't RK. Conversely, Eleki needs rocks for guaranteed 2HKO.
Assuming lowest roll on Wild Charge the last turn:
252+ Atk Pixilate Regieleki @ Altarianite Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Genesect @ Glalitite: 95-112 (33.4 - 39.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Urshifu, to my surprise, survives espeed (not that Urshifu likes taking a hit) and RK's with surging strikes. This really depends on the matchup. Either they expect surging strikes and volt switches safely into Slowbro (which eats surging strikes before mega) or a Slowbronite user that negates the guaranteed crit. Or they hit Espeed hoping you'd expect a switch and click something else. Not easy for either mon.
The biggest problem Eleki faces is Entei, which it can't 2HKO at all. Conversely, Entei can OHKO but without rocks it means you're not guaranteed to be unscathed.
Even the other half of your team doesn't enjoy Eleki abuse. And that's just one mon. Other -ate users are out there that can make short work of your team, not to mention the number of teams built to handle physical offense.
-----
Things you can improve in this team: the most obvious one would be to have something that can soak up espeed-ate hits and dish them out in return, of which you have plenty of options in the VR (off the top of my head, Slowbro @ Sablenite/Manectite, Slowking-G @ Aggronite, Eternatus, Magearna @ Slowbronite/Sablenite/Manectite). Each of those mons can handle either Alt or Pinsirite (Glalitite is pretty much irrelevant in the meta and you'll be hard pressed to find one on ladder).
As for improving the HO aspect of your team: 3 espeeders is plenty. I'd keep Salamencite Dragonite, and swap in Pinsirite Entei and Altarianite Eleki. Genesect is better off using the new Cameruptite set, and Lucario is just the runt of the pack if we're just talking espeed (even Arcanine outclasses it).
Terrakion is pretty much outclassed by other Lucarionite users. Might work better with Metagrossite, but it's also outclassed in that department.
A little bit of rocks support can go a long way. Rhyperior and Blissey are good examples of bulky setters that aren't necessarily passive!
Oh and I suppose I do have a question: what's with some of the EV spreads? Terrak and Shifu specifically.
I'm glad you're enjoying the meta.
First thank you for analyzing my team which tbh was kinda a meme lol but I will take your suggestions and fix it :)
Second of all the Ev Spreads are for Altite Enti and Pinsirite Dnite espeed however they could be wrong but I know these are I took the defense evs out of atk and speed randomly btw https://pokepast.es/6583aa5f7383394b
Dragonite Sweep (Click for Replay)
Dragonite @ Altarianite
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
This Could be put to some great use with a proper team
Dragonite @ Altarianite
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
This Could be put to some great use with a proper team
https://pokepast.es/3c8fe08946abe3bd
So Have been using this team for few days now and it is quite effective
Solid Lunala replacement:
Genesect @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Download
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Iron Head
- Blaze Kick
- Leech Life
Replay 1
Replay 2
Replay 3
Replay 4
Edit: Those Replays don't work
Here is a new one https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8mixandmega-1420306389
So Have been using this team for few days now and it is quite effective
Solid Lunala replacement:
Genesect @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Download
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Iron Head
- Blaze Kick
- Leech Life
Replay 1
Replay 2
Replay 3
Replay 4
Edit: Those Replays don't work
Here is a new one https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8mixandmega-1420306389
Last edited:
https://pokepast.es/046df36211ca472c this is the team I've been using on the ladder, pretty standard hyper offense except it hard loses to Entei.
speaking of Entei can we suspect extreme speed lmao
speaking of Entei can we suspect extreme speed lmao