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M&M Mix and Mega
- Thread starter QT
- Start date
Were z-moves unbanned? What happened?
Yea they are legal now for whatever reason. db informed me about it today i think they were gonna post about it.
na they were jus accidentally leaking unecronium update soon,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
https://pokepast.es/bfe04658c0e898d3
How do I improve this team?
How do I improve this team?
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If you want to skip the explanations, https://pokepast.es/8ea177154067b752. If not, keep reading.
The three biggest things I can spot on this team are that there are no entry hazards, there is no Eternatus check, and that there is a lot of role clashing. Some of the sets are also just not that good, but that can be sorted.
The biggest thing to me here is Iron Boulder; get rid of it. You have a lot of setup users here - Urshifu, Dragonite, and Iron Boulder. However, Rock/Psychic doesn't accomplish much in the current meta and both Lopunnite and Pinsirite are strictly superior sets (and don't fit on this team). At first, I tried replacing it with Arceus-Ground, since it's a fast Stealth Rock user that helps shore up your weakness to Raging Bolt, but this left the team really slow and so had to make an extra adjustment in the removal of Dragonite for Hisuian Arcanine. CM Arceus-Ghost filled in the last slot as it's just a good attacker that convinently also handles two problem Pokemon in Garganacl and Toxic Rocky Helmet Eternatus (with the help of pivot moves).
Arcanine-Hisui @ Altarianite
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 236 HP / 176 Atk / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Extreme Speed
- Morning Sun
- Stealth Rock
Outspeeds Aerodactylite Kingambit + bulky Lunala, Attack hits nature boost and has an important calc that I've forgotten. Only Ho-Oh really walls this, and Eternatus answers that well.
Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Multitype
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 224 HP / 96 Def / 188 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Substitute
Outspeeds Lunala, minimum optimal Bold EVs, has a HP stat 1 above a multiple of 4. Substitute blocks Salt Cure and Toxic chip.
However, this still leaves the issue of the sets. Urshifu really wants U-turn here, while Kilowattrel wants to be faster. As such, here are the replacement sets:
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike @ Metagrossite
Ability: Unseen Fist
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Surging Strikes
- Close Combat
- Ice Spinner
- U-turn
Kilowattrel @ Lucarionite
Ability: Volt Absorb
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Thunderbolt
- U-turn
- Endeavor
U-turn is more reliable pivoting, Endeavor punishes high HP targets like Raging Bolt, Blissey, and Arceus for existing.
These two form the main offensive core of the team, resembling the SkewdaZap core of Gen 8 that saw a lot of success. The main threats are Raging Bolt and Eternatus + a solid Kilowattrel counter, which are what the last two members help against.
Eternatus @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Def / 152 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Dynamax Cannon
- Flamethrower
- Sludge Bomb
152 Speed EVs let Eternatus outspeed Adamant Aerodactylite Urshifu-RS, while its Defense is prioritised due to Eternatus having a gargantuan base 140 HP. Sludge Bomb is actually always better than Sludge Wave because of the high Poison chance, but you can probably use Toxic here over Sludge Bomb if you prefer the anti-setup utility.
Corviknight @ Sablenite
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Roost
- U-turn
- Brave Bird
- Defog
A specially defensive set helps versus defensive Eternatus sets, while minimum Speed helps to underspeed opposing pivots and Stealth Rock users. Note that Garganacl without a Speed-boosting Mega Stone will probably be slower, especially if the opponent is good.
This wraps up the list of changes to the team, hope you enjoy the tier! Reach out on the Discord or here if you need more help :)
It's been a few days without any more responses, so we're going to close the survey early. There were 53 respondents this time, which might be the most we've ever had - thank you for letting us know how you feel about things!
Our competitiveness metric rating is currently averaging at 7.29; most people seem to think the metagame is fairly competitive, but there are definitely some outliers who feel strongly otherwise that we're not going to ignore.
Our enjoyability rating is doing a bit better, at 7.71. Again, it seems like most people are enjoying the metagame, but some people are having an very poor time with it. Both this and our competitiveness scores are a bit lower than our last survey, which might be an artefact of our sample size being much larger and might be a sign that things have gotten a bit worse; we're definitely going to be keeping an eye on things.
Now, onto tiering actions!
At 41.5% approval for an unban, this is the most requested of our tiering actions. Even then, however, 45.3% of users expect they will still vote to keep it banned; the unbanning of a quickban threshold is enough to overcome that if enough of the undecided users come down on the right side of the vote or change their minds, but it's far from a mandate. We'll be considering our options here carefully.
Almost nobody is hard opposed to a wake suspect test, but in terms of support for a ban it only musters a mere 33.9% support, which is not enough. We will keep an eye on Wake in the future, but do not currently plan any tiering action.
It has a little less support than rusted sword - 39.6 instead of 41.5 - but what it does have is a lot more polarized support. A full quarter of our respondants are entirely confident that it ought to go, which is more than twice our next highest contingent. On the other hand, there's also a lot more confidence that it ought to stay, with 18.9% of respondants saying that they think it's completely fine - 5 times the next highest. Last Respects also has a sizable 28.3% of people who are completely unsure of their stance. While this isn't enough for current action, it's definitely a sign that there's some very strong feelings going on here. We heavily encourage anyone who feels strongly about this one way or another to make their case in the thread, ideally with replays; there is clearly some level of disconnect between different parts of the playerbase.
In terms of write in actions, we had a number of candidates, but none recieved much support. Notable examples were Ceruledge with 3 mentions, Magearna with 3.5, Dragonite with 2.5, and Urshi-RS with 3.5. No action is planned on any of these at this time, but if you're one of the people that feels like this, we once again encourage you to post in the thread about it.
Going forward, as a result of this survey the Mix and Mega council is considering both a suspect test on rusted sword and refraining from any tiering actions for the next while. Those appear to be the strongest considerations to come out of the survey, and we're debating both on their merits; expect an announcement one way or another in the near future. Thank you to everyone who responded for their feedback!
Our competitiveness metric rating is currently averaging at 7.29; most people seem to think the metagame is fairly competitive, but there are definitely some outliers who feel strongly otherwise that we're not going to ignore.
Our enjoyability rating is doing a bit better, at 7.71. Again, it seems like most people are enjoying the metagame, but some people are having an very poor time with it. Both this and our competitiveness scores are a bit lower than our last survey, which might be an artefact of our sample size being much larger and might be a sign that things have gotten a bit worse; we're definitely going to be keeping an eye on things.
Now, onto tiering actions!
At 41.5% approval for an unban, this is the most requested of our tiering actions. Even then, however, 45.3% of users expect they will still vote to keep it banned; the unbanning of a quickban threshold is enough to overcome that if enough of the undecided users come down on the right side of the vote or change their minds, but it's far from a mandate. We'll be considering our options here carefully.
Almost nobody is hard opposed to a wake suspect test, but in terms of support for a ban it only musters a mere 33.9% support, which is not enough. We will keep an eye on Wake in the future, but do not currently plan any tiering action.
It has a little less support than rusted sword - 39.6 instead of 41.5 - but what it does have is a lot more polarized support. A full quarter of our respondants are entirely confident that it ought to go, which is more than twice our next highest contingent. On the other hand, there's also a lot more confidence that it ought to stay, with 18.9% of respondants saying that they think it's completely fine - 5 times the next highest. Last Respects also has a sizable 28.3% of people who are completely unsure of their stance. While this isn't enough for current action, it's definitely a sign that there's some very strong feelings going on here. We heavily encourage anyone who feels strongly about this one way or another to make their case in the thread, ideally with replays; there is clearly some level of disconnect between different parts of the playerbase.
In terms of write in actions, we had a number of candidates, but none recieved much support. Notable examples were Ceruledge with 3 mentions, Magearna with 3.5, Dragonite with 2.5, and Urshi-RS with 3.5. No action is planned on any of these at this time, but if you're one of the people that feels like this, we once again encourage you to post in the thread about it.
Going forward, as a result of this survey the Mix and Mega council is considering both a suspect test on rusted sword and refraining from any tiering actions for the next while. Those appear to be the strongest considerations to come out of the survey, and we're debating both on their merits; expect an announcement one way or another in the near future. Thank you to everyone who responded for their feedback!
Every Mix and Mega Game In OM Majors So Far
Just exactly that I’m too lazy and too bad to do actual writeups of the games
Just exactly that I’m too lazy and too bad to do actual writeups of the games
(
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(not revealed) 
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(
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(
)Ren VS DragonPheonix333
() 
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) (
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(not revealed) 
(not revealed) () 
() 
Concept VS Fish Gaming
(not revealed) (
) 
(not revealed) () () 
(
) (
) 
() 
(
) (not revealed) (Greybaum VS Berry
:Basculegion-Male:
() 
(
) () (
) 
() 
() () () ()Greybaum VS Fc
(
) () 
() 
() ()() () () () ()Tbp24 VS MZ
() () () () 
(
) ()(not revealed) () () () Tanny89k VS TKYSZL
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() () ()() 
() () (not revealed) ()QT VS Kinetic
(
) () () 
(
) ()
(
) () 
() 
()Matte VS Sylvi
() () () () (not revealed)() (not revealed) (not revealed) 
(): ()QT VS pyu
() () () () () ()() () () () (not revealed)Matte VS Lightniong
() () () 
() ()() () () (not revealed) () (not revealed)Greybaum VS Yoru47
() () () () () ()() () () () 
() 
()fififlutters VS Velcroc (technically apart of OM Majors but it’s in the thread so)
() () () () 
()() () () () ()Mok3s VS pyu
() () () () () () () () 
() (not revealed:)Evie VS Lepton
() () () ()() (not revealed) () () () ()MZ VS Codename C.A.T
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() () () (not revealed)() () () (not revealed)GhastlyPixie VS Lightniong
(not revealed) () () () (not revealed)() () () () ()Lightniong VS Sylvi (Tiebreaker)
() () () () ()
() () () () () )pyu VS QT (Tiebreaker)
() () 
() () (not revealed) () () (not revealed)pyu vs Kinetic (Tiebreaker)
() (not revealed) () () ()() () () () Kinetic VS QT (Tiebreaker)
(not revealed) () () () ()() (not revealed) () () GhastlyPixie VS Sylvi (Tiebreaker)
() () () () () ()() () () (not revealed) () 
Kinetic VS pyu (2nd Tiebreaker)
() () () () ()( () () ()Kinetic VS QT (2nd Tiebreaker)
() () () () ()() () () ()GhastlyPixie VS Lightniong (Tiebreaker)
() () (
)
() () (not revealed or just not a stone?) () ()Arcanine1929 VS Teamo
() () () () (not revealed) (not revealed) (not revealed) () QT VS Fc
() () (not revealed) 
(
) ()() () () ()Icemaster VS Greybaum
() () () () () () () () ()TTTech VS Roller K
() () () () () (
) () ()Mindnight VS Rofna
() () () (() () () (
)Lepton VS Tbp24
() () () () () () () ()Lana VS Flames Of Elixir
() (not revealed) () (not revealed) ()
(
) () (not revealed) ()Uber45 VS Evie
() () () ()() () (not revealed) () ()hidin VS Blazing
() () (not revealed:) (not revealed) () () () () () ()TKYSZL VS Betathunder
(not revealed) () ) () () () () ()Treeko928 VS Lightniong
() () () ()() () () () Damflame 3 VS Kinetic
() () () ()() () () () () Tanny89k VS lag=bad
() () () 
(
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() () () ()Lana VS Jojen
() () () () () ()() () () () TKYSZL VS QT
() () () () ) () () () () ()Lepton VS GhastlyPixie
() () ()() () (not revealed) () ()Betticus IV VS Mindnight
() () () () My thoughts on the metagame scoring soon, I did not realize how long this would take.
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Lightniong's Thoughts On The Metagame
See I Told You It Was Coming
See I Told You It Was Coming
So, it's been a while since i've been eliminated from OM Majors, and I would like to say I did what I wanted to do and make it to the 2nd stage, it was due to a technicality and somebody dropping so it dosen't really count in my eyes. Anyway, i've had some time to think about my stance on the metagame between MnM Seasonal and now, so here I am, doing what is probably going to be a long rant about the state of the nation or something like that. I'm also not gonna like reread this it's just me spilling out thoughts.
So, i've always had this feeling where i'd start off with a core, and then make a core of like 3 to 4 pokemon, and then just blank out for like 10 minutes to even an hour at times where i'd blank on what to add on, and now I think i'vecame to the solution that there's just a few pokemon that I believe that you need a dedicated counter to, and that kinda restricts what defensive cores I can bring, cause now I gotta worry on if my team immediately loses to something like Eternatus or Walking Wake without shoving Pech or Dnite or Hearthflame Tusk on everything. Maybe it's just that I'm not the best at building teams, but this is something i've had problems with ever since like i've picked up the tier. However, with the Lugia ban it's gotten a little better.
I'm not gonna sugarcoat it, Waking Wake is broken. Lucarionite sets just destroy everything in it's range, and realistically, the only way you can deal with it is to either let it KO a mon so that you can revenge kill it, or just run a check like Sablenite Mage and Pixienite, and even then you can kinda just get fucked up by coverage like Scald or even Flamethrower in some cases(I love flamethrower), so like the only consistent check in my eyes is just audinite water types like Milotic and Alomomola, but there's literally no other use for those other than Milotic, and even then you're better off running sablenite in most cases. However, Offense just kinda shines out to me as that playstyle that can just overwhelm anything, I know hayedenn or however you spell it (no offense to yo tho you cool) got that team dump where it's just a bunch of offense teams, and it's cool to see all of the creative things they've tried to make work. Also shoutout to that one prson who made that HO that I stol then proceeded to spam for most of OM Majors, probably Slither Wing but it's been so long I don't remember.
I know I went on a discord rant about this a couple days ago, but I'm just gonna say exactly what I said here: Last Respects is not broken solely because the only viable users are Basculegion. And basculegion is
1. Reliant on Agility boosts to get going
2. Espeed users, which are on basically every team, kinda just come in and revenge kill it (not to mention other priority like sucker punch and thunderclap)
3. Common Pokemon like Mandibuzz can just take the hit anyway with the new boosts they get
I woudn't be opposed to a ban, cause like I know it's uncompetitive and if you don't have an Espeeder you kinda just lose, but I think there's a lot of more banworthy stuff than it, like Wake, yea thats about it
1. Reliant on Agility boosts to get going
2. Espeed users, which are on basically every team, kinda just come in and revenge kill it (not to mention other priority like sucker punch and thunderclap)
3. Common Pokemon like Mandibuzz can just take the hit anyway with the new boosts they get
I woudn't be opposed to a ban, cause like I know it's uncompetitive and if you don't have an Espeeder you kinda just lose, but I think there's a lot of more banworthy stuff than it, like Wake, yea thats about it
Gonna keep this one short, cause I don't have much to say about it, but I think it has some niche cases like maybe like a Garganacl, but overall it's pretty bad unless you need Earth Plate for a Bulky Ground type. Just wish it did'nt give multitype as an ability cause then I could make a Ghost/Steel Kingambit with Supreme Overlord.
Overall, as much as I've voiced my criticisms, it's fun to play, it's fun to see stuff like Earth Plate Garganacl, Diancite Lando-T and Volc enter the light of the public, and really, that's the fun of watching games for me. The metagame reaching this ecosystem type state where a team structure or Pokemon shines, then new stuff comes out to counter that, then another thing shines, then new stuff comes out to counter that, and so forth. I've been trying out stuff like Bolt + Blue Orb Birds and CeruDon more frequently but overall, I'd just wish for like Wake to go, then maybe this tier can flourish in creativity like I know it can.. Anyway, before I sign off, I just kinda wanna show yall 2 teams i've used:
CM Ghosteus Balance
https://pokepast.es/70256cfd9100ace9
just note that it loses badly to LO Etern(learned that the hard way)
Remake of Ghostspam Secret Santa Team (yes that was me) featuring a real set called Healing Wish Arceus Ground
:Basculegion-Male:
https://pokepast.es/d2bfcda15770f71d
just noe that this team was built in 5 minutes and has not seen a lick of testing so it's probably bad
https://pokepast.es/70256cfd9100ace9
just note that it loses badly to LO Etern(learned that the hard way)
Remake of Ghostspam Secret Santa Team (yes that was me) featuring a real set called Healing Wish Arceus Ground
:Basculegion-Male:
https://pokepast.es/d2bfcda15770f71d
just noe that this team was built in 5 minutes and has not seen a lick of testing so it's probably bad
like flex on you haters, high haters
this is my world so it's all in my favor
this is my world so it's all in my favor
II personally don’t like this revision of the team because only one Pokemon has a boosting move and killowatrell is still on the team. I don’t like using killowattrel it just happened to have good coverage for the team despite doing nothing most games. I’m mostly a hyper offense player so I threw some generally good mons into this team. You also never explained why my team having multiple setup users is bad. I’m wondering if there’s a way I can tweak the team to focus on supporting Iron Boulder properly.If you want to skip the explanations, https://pokepast.es/8ea177154067b752. If not, keep reading.
The three biggest things I can spot on this team are that there are no entry hazards, there is no Eternatus check, and that there is a lot of role clashing. Some of the sets are also just not that good, but that can be sorted.
The biggest thing to me here is Iron Boulder; get rid of it. You have a lot of setup users here - Urshifu, Dragonite, and Iron Boulder. However, Rock/Psychic doesn't accomplish much in the current meta and both Lopunnite and Pinsirite are strictly superior sets (and don't fit on this team). At first, I tried replacing it with Arceus-Ground, since it's a fast Stealth Rock user that helps shore up your weakness to Raging Bolt, but this left the team really slow and so had to make an extra adjustment in the removal of Dragonite for Hisuian Arcanine. CM Arceus-Ghost filled in the last slot as it's just a good attacker that convinently also handles two problem Pokemon in Garganacl and Toxic Rocky Helmet Eternatus (with the help of pivot moves).
Arcanine-Hisui @ Altarianite
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 236 HP / 176 Atk / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Extreme Speed
- Morning Sun
- Stealth Rock
Outspeeds Aerodactylite Kingambit + bulky Lunala, Attack hits nature boost and has an important calc that I've forgotten. Only Ho-Oh really walls this, and Eternatus answers that well.
Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Multitype
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 224 HP / 96 Def / 188 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Substitute
Outspeeds Lunala, minimum optimal Bold EVs, has a HP stat 1 above a multiple of 4. Substitute blocks Salt Cure and Toxic chip.
However, this still leaves the issue of the sets. Urshifu really wants U-turn here, while Kilowattrel wants to be faster. As such, here are the replacement sets:
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike @ Metagrossite
Ability: Unseen Fist
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Surging Strikes
- Close Combat
- Ice Spinner
- U-turn
Kilowattrel @ Lucarionite
Ability: Volt Absorb
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Thunderbolt
- U-turn
- Endeavor
U-turn is more reliable pivoting, Endeavor punishes high HP targets like Raging Bolt, Blissey, and Arceus for existing.
These two form the main offensive core of the team, resembling the SkewdaZap core of Gen 8 that saw a lot of success. The main threats are Raging Bolt and Eternatus + a solid Kilowattrel counter, which are what the last two members help against.
Eternatus @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Def / 152 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Dynamax Cannon
- Flamethrower
- Sludge Bomb
152 Speed EVs let Eternatus outspeed Adamant Aerodactylite Urshifu-RS, while its Defense is prioritised due to Eternatus having a gargantuan base 140 HP. Sludge Bomb is actually always better than Sludge Wave because of the high Poison chance, but you can probably use Toxic here over Sludge Bomb if you prefer the anti-setup utility.
Corviknight @ Sablenite
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Roost
- U-turn
- Brave Bird
- Defog
A specially defensive set helps versus defensive Eternatus sets, while minimum Speed helps to underspeed opposing pivots and Stealth Rock users. Note that Garganacl without a Speed-boosting Mega Stone will probably be slower, especially if the opponent is good.
This wraps up the list of changes to the team, hope you enjoy the tier! Reach out on the Discord or here if you need more help :)
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rusted sword is a really weird item, it brings almost no benefit to 99% of mons being inferior to aggronite in almost every use case, but the few mons it does work with are boosted immensely. it gives no bulk and only 10 speed limiting its use case to mons that are already absurdly fast or bulky, or have ddance, and the once per battle atk boost limits it to fast paced sacrificial mons who dont mind staying in and clicking stab till it faints. ironically its best abuser byfar is zacians playmate, zamazenta, letting it 2hko the bulkiest arceus and eternatus sets and removing its weakness to espeed. zama has always been a pretty decent phys attacker but suffered from severe 4 moveslot syndrome, without howl it barely missed out on the most important 2hkos (arceus, etern, physdef corv, etc), with howl it could never carry all the coverage it needed to dominate various team compositions, but rs solves all its problems in one package. in addition to this all the recent mnm bans, restrictions, and unbans seem almost tailor made to help zama specifically. wo lugia in the tier the highest specific significant speed tier for bulky special attacking switchins has fallen significantly, with pult back its easier to break boring arceus-etern cores. when used properly on a compatible team rs zama is the scariest mid-late game cleanup sweeper ive ever seen in mnm. i feel like gen 9 mnm is finally settling into place post lugia/redorb, specific definable speed tiers are finally revealing themselves with the dominance of Uber copycat etern arc teams finally waning. anyway here are some fun rs users
Fluffy (Zamazenta) @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Dauntless Shield
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Iron Head
- Psychic Fangs
- Stone Edge
Great Tusk @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Headlong Rush
- Bulk Up
- Rapid Spin
Gyarados @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Iron Head
- Taunt
credit to Zastra for this one
Kommo-o @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Bulletproof
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Clangorous Soul
- Iron Head
- Drain Punch
- Clanging Scales/Dragon Claw
credit to Mincera
lol (Mamoswine) @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Oblivious
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake
- Trailblaze
+insert dragon/steel ddancer here
Fluffy (Zamazenta) @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Dauntless Shield
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Iron Head
- Psychic Fangs
- Stone Edge
Great Tusk @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Headlong Rush
- Bulk Up
- Rapid Spin
Gyarados @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Iron Head
- Taunt
credit to Zastra for this one
Kommo-o @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Bulletproof
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Clangorous Soul
- Iron Head
- Drain Punch
- Clanging Scales/Dragon Claw
credit to Mincera
lol (Mamoswine) @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Oblivious
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake
- Trailblaze
+insert dragon/steel ddancer here
Heyo, i got back to see what the meta was in mnm after i read Icemaster comment on the meta in om cord and have some views to share.
Firstly, i have some sympathy for ice in the fact that rn MnM building does feel like gambling a bit. With so many threats to consider from and also no established meta (which tbh mnm suffers from every year just after omwc ends), its always ur defensive core losing to something. Now ofc the "win faster" method works but still in the builder it doesnt feel quite right for balance or BO** and this is why i think an unban suspect test was not the right way to approach tiering imo.
Regardless of how bad rusted sword is (or so ive heard) its not right when we have this many threats looming around to expose the metagame to another one. Personally, i dont even think rusted sword is that bad, in plenty of my games a +1 zamazenta or landorus pr w.e was able to put either an arc / etern / mag / pecha in such a range that they became essentially useless in checking other threats my opponent had. Like sure, at best the mon is getting a 1v1 trade but then depending on which mon is getting traded (which often is ur arc or pecha), it becomes really hard to handle an incoming shifu/entei or even garg if ur arceus is the one getting low.
**However, no matter how the suspect ends, i think there should be a call taken to address how awful balance is in the meta and how easy it is to be in the back foot during the game because of it and i think that should start from suspecting walking wake. Its an awful mon to face, can flip turn on most , has flamethrower for spd mag and draco meteor for nuking shit. I ran arceus-fairy and water and even then a simple combination of me facing stuff like either wake or some stupid RS mon or wake + garg made me rethink my defensive core. But then if u use something else, ur moreso prone to losing to offensive etern / cm arceus. Hayedenn said after winning the ssnl that they think balance is quite bad in this meta and after experiencing it myself, i couldn't agree more and i think wake is the biggest offender of it. MnM has always suffered from offensive pivots being borderline but combined with our lack of spd walls esp in retaliation to water types, is making us overcompensate on wake and losing out on other potential threats.
Now, i understand that the council did a survey and acted on its results but i also think due to mnm having no standardization of meta (again we face it every year so not anyone's fault) , i think the stance on wake should be reconsidered.
Overall while i would personally like rusted sword not being introduced atm, if the majority does see it as a non-issue then so be it but i think a wake suspect into ban (hopefully) into letting the meta settle and see where the trend is from MnM open and then taking another action before ompl would be the right call. Ideally a meta without wake and garganacl should mostly solve the problem or atleast pave a way to stabilize the whole meta but lets just start one at a time.
Firstly, i have some sympathy for ice in the fact that rn MnM building does feel like gambling a bit. With so many threats to consider from and also no established meta (which tbh mnm suffers from every year just after omwc ends), its always ur defensive core losing to something. Now ofc the "win faster" method works but still in the builder it doesnt feel quite right for balance or BO** and this is why i think an unban suspect test was not the right way to approach tiering imo.
Regardless of how bad rusted sword is (or so ive heard) its not right when we have this many threats looming around to expose the metagame to another one. Personally, i dont even think rusted sword is that bad, in plenty of my games a +1 zamazenta or landorus pr w.e was able to put either an arc / etern / mag / pecha in such a range that they became essentially useless in checking other threats my opponent had. Like sure, at best the mon is getting a 1v1 trade but then depending on which mon is getting traded (which often is ur arc or pecha), it becomes really hard to handle an incoming shifu/entei or even garg if ur arceus is the one getting low.
**However, no matter how the suspect ends, i think there should be a call taken to address how awful balance is in the meta and how easy it is to be in the back foot during the game because of it and i think that should start from suspecting walking wake. Its an awful mon to face, can flip turn on most , has flamethrower for spd mag and draco meteor for nuking shit. I ran arceus-fairy and water and even then a simple combination of me facing stuff like either wake or some stupid RS mon or wake + garg made me rethink my defensive core. But then if u use something else, ur moreso prone to losing to offensive etern / cm arceus. Hayedenn said after winning the ssnl that they think balance is quite bad in this meta and after experiencing it myself, i couldn't agree more and i think wake is the biggest offender of it. MnM has always suffered from offensive pivots being borderline but combined with our lack of spd walls esp in retaliation to water types, is making us overcompensate on wake and losing out on other potential threats.
Now, i understand that the council did a survey and acted on its results but i also think due to mnm having no standardization of meta (again we face it every year so not anyone's fault) , i think the stance on wake should be reconsidered.
Overall while i would personally like rusted sword not being introduced atm, if the majority does see it as a non-issue then so be it but i think a wake suspect into ban (hopefully) into letting the meta settle and see where the trend is from MnM open and then taking another action before ompl would be the right call. Ideally a meta without wake and garganacl should mostly solve the problem or atleast pave a way to stabilize the whole meta but lets just start one at a time.
Rusted Sword has been unbanned
As a result of the suspect test. Thank you to everyone who voted. Since the survey, we've been hearing more and more talk about walking wake, but there isn't enough community consensus or council consensus for an immediate suspect; please continue to share your thoughts, and we will be keeping an eye on both it and garganacl during the upcoming open.
As a result of the suspect test. Thank you to everyone who voted. Since the survey, we've been hearing more and more talk about walking wake, but there isn't enough community consensus or council consensus for an immediate suspect; please continue to share your thoughts, and we will be keeping an eye on both it and garganacl during the upcoming open.
Not currently. You could think of arceus with plates as being essentially the equivalent of Arceus-Type being legal to hold stones, and then if the stone it chooses isn't a plate it becomes arceus-normal which isn't allowed to hold stones. You could also imagine that plates are both in and out of battle changes, like the creation trio crystals. There's no such equivalent for Zacian.
Also, separately if Zacian was allowed to hold transformation items it would have to be banned.
I've got a couple questions about Sticky Web in general and this specific webs team.
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This squad came together around the start of the Rusted Sword suspect. I used it to get reqs and peaked at 1537 with a 83.1% GXE. However, I got the impression that most of my ladder games were not representative of the meta. So that leads me to my first question:
1. Are Webs viable?
Am I missing some kind of secret sauce on webs? Is there some mon that is instrumental to the style? Honestly, my experience has me leaning towards "No, webs are not viable". Spinblocking is impossible. Regieleki is so fast that it can spin before we move, even with the speed drop. Sablenite Corv is too bulky for most of this team to OHKO. The various flavors of Tusk are also hard to handle. All of these removal options can seemingly come in off of a KO and trade their HP bar for a reliable spin. I just don't think it's possible to keep webs up long term.
2. Could some of these sets be better?
Specifically Magearna and Eternatus. Not trying to turn this into an RMT, but I am super new to MnM, and something feels a little off about both of these mons.
-----Lando is the biggest beneficiary of webs here. Everyone else is here to force the opponent to pick between removing webs or keeping their spinner. The teammates were also picked with an eye towards handling atespeed. My strategy is usually to get webs up and then go into whichever mon threatens their removal the most.
Quick set explanations:
Sets webs pretty consistently with Mold Breaker. Not always a great lead, especially against atespeed.
Gravity sword lando is not great outside of webs but can 2HKO a ton of stuff. Tons of Latiasite, Corv, Ho-oh around and Lando farms all of it.
Pretty strong, the main appeal is that it can tank most extremespeeds and KO back
The other atespeed stopper. Can usually trade, even against Altarianite Entei. Another webs abuser, since webs let us run max HP and Defence.
Provides a little priority and is just good in general. Dragon Tail is trying to squeeze in a little counterplay to CM Arceus.
The "ground resist". Latiosite because I needed Levitate but wanted to stay offensive. The only mon on the team that can beat Pinsirite Tusk, although not before allowing a spin. Edit: I assumed Latiosite gave you a bigger SpA boost. Changed to Latiasite.
Quick set explanations:
Sets webs pretty consistently with Mold Breaker. Not always a great lead, especially against atespeed. Gravity sword lando is not great outside of webs but can 2HKO a ton of stuff. Tons of Latiasite, Corv, Ho-oh around and Lando farms all of it. Pretty strong, the main appeal is that it can tank most extremespeeds and KO back The other atespeed stopper. Can usually trade, even against Altarianite Entei. Another webs abuser, since webs let us run max HP and Defence. Provides a little priority and is just good in general. Dragon Tail is trying to squeeze in a little counterplay to CM Arceus. The "ground resist". Latiosite because I needed Levitate but wanted to stay offensive. The only mon on the team that can beat Pinsirite Tusk, although not before allowing a spin. Edit: I assumed Latiosite gave you a bigger SpA boost. Changed to Latiasite.1. Are Webs viable?
Am I missing some kind of secret sauce on webs? Is there some mon that is instrumental to the style? Honestly, my experience has me leaning towards "No, webs are not viable". Spinblocking is impossible. Regieleki is so fast that it can spin before we move, even with the speed drop. Sablenite Corv is too bulky for most of this team to OHKO. The various flavors of Tusk are also hard to handle. All of these removal options can seemingly come in off of a KO and trade their HP bar for a reliable spin. I just don't think it's possible to keep webs up long term.
2. Could some of these sets be better?
Specifically Magearna and Eternatus. Not trying to turn this into an RMT, but I am super new to MnM, and something feels a little off about both of these mons.
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Webs is pretty tough to make work, yeah. Even if you load into elekiless teams, they'll usually have threats like atespeed and great tusk and bulky pivots and defog to make things tough on you. I think Ribombee is probably not optimal as a webs setter, but even without it the payoff just isn't very good in exchange for a dead slot; I think psyterrain and screens are the two best HO archetypes at the moment.I've got a couple questions about Sticky Web in general and this specific webs team.
This squad came together around the start of the Rusted Sword suspect. I used it to get reqs and peaked at 1537 with a 83.1% GXE. However, I got the impression that most of my ladder games were not representative of the meta. So that leads me to my first question:Lando is the biggest beneficiary of webs here. Everyone else is here to force the opponent to pick between removing webs or keeping their spinner. The teammates were also picked with an eye towards handling atespeed. My strategy is usually to get webs up and then go into whichever mon threatens their removal the most.
Quick set explanations:
1. Are Webs viable?
Am I missing some kind of secret sauce on webs? Is there some mon that is instrumental to the style? Honestly, my experience has me leaning towards "No, webs are not viable". Spinblocking is impossible. Regieleki is so fast that it can spin before we move, even with the speed drop. Sablenite Corv is too bulky for most of this team to OHKO. The various flavors of Tusk are also hard to handle. All of these removal options can seemingly come in off of a KO and trade their HP bar for a reliable spin. I just don't think it's possible to keep webs up long term.
2. Could some of these sets be better?
Specifically Magearna and Eternatus. Not trying to turn this into an RMT, but I am super new to MnM, and something feels a little off about both of these mons.
for starters swap ribombe for araquanid, leavanny, or vikavolt as they are the bulkiest web users. webs are all about finding one or two sweepers that would be broken with good speed, mnm doesnt have many candidates for the moment and as QT said you need to naturally integrate anti espeed and anti spin tech into the team which is difficult for teams with a dead slot. for offense teams w a dead slot the only possible anti spin/defog tech is using sweepers which cant be handled by the majority of the anti hazard mons tusk/corv/eleki. imo the best candidates for webs abuse are blue orb/scizorite urshifu, lucarionite ceruledge, and meteor beam power herb eternatus. bulk up tusk, spectrier and cm/swords dance arceus forms are also decent web abusers, but remember you cant have every mon on the team need webs up to be functional else the team can be easily shut down. lando magearna and zamazenta dont benefit much from webs. lando doesnt benefit bc it doesnt resist espeed, have massive bulk or ohko key threats at +2, groundceus is better for this role due to superior bulk and recovery. magearna doesnt benefit bc it too slow to benefit from webs altho its a perfectly good mon in its own right and can still be used on webs. zamazenta doesnt benefit from webs bc he already fast as fluff boiiiii. just for fun some other mons that are close to webs consideration but i havent gotten to work are metagrossite kingambit and ursaluna, and nasty plot hoopaI've got a couple questions about Sticky Web in general and this specific webs team.
This squad came together around the start of the Rusted Sword suspect. I used it to get reqs and peaked at 1537 with a 83.1% GXE. However, I got the impression that most of my ladder games were not representative of the meta. So that leads me to my first question:Lando is the biggest beneficiary of webs here. Everyone else is here to force the opponent to pick between removing webs or keeping their spinner. The teammates were also picked with an eye towards handling atespeed. My strategy is usually to get webs up and then go into whichever mon threatens their removal the most.
Quick set explanations:
1. Are Webs viable?
Am I missing some kind of secret sauce on webs? Is there some mon that is instrumental to the style? Honestly, my experience has me leaning towards "No, webs are not viable". Spinblocking is impossible. Regieleki is so fast that it can spin before we move, even with the speed drop. Sablenite Corv is too bulky for most of this team to OHKO. The various flavors of Tusk are also hard to handle. All of these removal options can seemingly come in off of a KO and trade their HP bar for a reliable spin. I just don't think it's possible to keep webs up long term.
2. Could some of these sets be better?
Specifically Magearna and Eternatus. Not trying to turn this into an RMT, but I am super new to MnM, and something feels a little off about both of these mons.
Suicide lead (Ting-Lu) @ Banettite
Ability: Vessel of Ruin
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Taunt
New to the tier and curious if this has a spot on HO. Prankster taunt while being immune to prankster taunt, stealth rocks and spikes, as well as a strong ass EQ seems to do well into a lot of HO leads and teams in general. can also be a emergency check to alot of shit on HO teams as even with only max HP its still fat as fuck. Is eleki spinning that oppressive that its not even worth running duel hazard suicide? curious to know peoples thoughts!
Ability: Vessel of Ruin
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Taunt
New to the tier and curious if this has a spot on HO. Prankster taunt while being immune to prankster taunt, stealth rocks and spikes, as well as a strong ass EQ seems to do well into a lot of HO leads and teams in general. can also be a emergency check to alot of shit on HO teams as even with only max HP its still fat as fuck. Is eleki spinning that oppressive that its not even worth running duel hazard suicide? curious to know peoples thoughts!
magic bounce is everywhere and since tings role is to setup hazards once then die it doesnt benefit much from prankster, however i have extensively played with gyaradosite (mold breaker) ting and it would be viable if there were enough HO mons who could turn the anti hazard mons into setup fodder. it isnt too hard to find mons who can break through the anti hazard options, but you cant prevent hazards from getting removed and the second they are ting is below half health and nothing but sacrificial fodder, if he got recover tho itd be a whole different story. all the good HO sweepers have gotten banned the second they start to show any potential. every teamstyle except ubers based stall focused bulky offense has been consistently and thoroughly nerfed. the sacred competitive pokemon trinity of stall>bulky offense>hyper offense>stall is nonexistent in gen 9 mnm. imo the playerbase has been naive in their ban choices, not taking into consideration the necessity for balance between the vital archetypal playstyles. as a result teamstyle specific dedicated roles such as hazard lead, stallbreaker, and generic passive blob are nearly impossible to make work. an interesting sidenote, if gholdengo was unrestricted dedicated hazard leads and HO as a whole would be buffed immensely potentially to the point of genuine meta contention but thatd be a whole can of worms unto itself
How soon will the megas be implemented after ZA do you think? As there’s quite a few so it might change the meta drastically
Potentially never, since Z-A has a bunch of mechanical differences from the current gen what with dodging and such, and the differences in regards to abilities may result in us not approving their addition to MnM.
Even ignoring these scenarios, the fact that Z-A is singleplayer means we'd have to approve it policy-wise and as such that is another hurdle.
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ZA megas wont be put into Mix and Mega unless ZA becomes the new main generation