Ladder Monotype [Read post #393 for Tiering Updates]

[Anttya]

Weren't monotype teams allowed to run a "wild card" (i.e. a differently-typed mon) in the past? Why not bring that back?

That would ruin the purpose of Monotype tho. Monotype is supposed to be one type only.

 

[QueenOfHax]

That would ruin the purpose of Monotype tho. Monotype is supposed to be one type only.

Yet we allow Mega Aggron in mono-rock, Megazard X and Mega Gyarados in mono-flying and let's not even get started on how mono-flying and mono-water (once Volcanion is released) have access to all 18 types.

 

[anubite]

They were allowed. I don't know why that changed. I personally don't like wildcards, but they do make certain monos workable.

 

[Anttya]

Yet we allow Mega Aggron in mono-rock, Megazard X and Mega Gyarados in mono-flying and let's not even get started on how mono-flying and mono-water (once Volcanion is released) have access to all 18 types.

The reason why they're allowed is because Mega Evolution only happens in battle. Since they can't keep their mega evolutions outside of battle they can't be on the types they gain. It'd go against in game mechanics.

 

[DoW]

Wildcards were never allowed in the OU Monotype tier, even if they were allowed in some leagues e.g. Yeah! league, and possibly PO's monotype? IDK about that one. Anyway the reason we allow megazard x, megaggron and mega gyara are they're close to their types, which we can't be certain of for wildcards, and that we don't really have a good reason to change the setup. Wildcards would be very different.

Edit: Also, you thought aegi on steel was bad because they got a fighting immunity? How exactly would wildcards help the meta?

 

[Salemance]

Wildcards were never allowed in the OU Monotype tier, even if they were allowed in some leagues e.g. Yeah! league, and possibly PO's monotype? IDK about that one. Anyway the reason we allow megazard x, megaggron and mega gyara are they're close to their types, which we can't be certain of for wildcards, and that we don't really have a good reason to change the setup. Wildcards would be very different.

Edit: Also, you thought aegi on steel was bad because they got a fighting immunity? How exactly would wildcards help the meta?

Yeah!!! we allowed it, but it hasn't been enforced in forever so its not even worth mentioning us using them.

And truly, Meggron is probably one of the best things of Rock Mono's cause it gives them a viable physical wall that doesn't mind absorbing some hits they normally shouldn't even try (the super powers, Bullet Punches, Grass attacks) even if its still a bit weak on the special side. I don't really see them as that much of an issue or if at all cause frankly they aren't exactly making these types that overkill, and the fact that they still retain their original typings is what hurt them the most. Sure Aggron will be able to absorb those Terrakion Close Combats, but it first has to Mega Evolve to shed off its horrendous dual typing. It really is the same situation with the other two, and the fact they must safely mega evolve makes them very different than suggested wild cards which would start off in the match with immediate impact rather than delayed.

 

[unklewiggles]

I agree with the gensect being banned from steel even as a steel user, and i do think we should continue observing our new met because the albeit nearly impossible fight to make all types viable is intresting and id like to see how the metagame reacts to the new sect steel banning has anyone seen any changes yet or is it reletivly the same?

(Ill edit posts if i notice anything havnt had time to play much)

 

[truedrew]

Seeing as certain ubers were unbanned for certain types, i would like to inquire if mega kangaskhan could be unbanned for mono normal as mono normal is hurt from the lack of a mega as all types have good megas apart from normal

 

[unklewiggles]

Seeing as certain ubers were unbanned for certain types, i would like to inquire if mega kangaskhan could be unbanned for mono normal as mono normal is hurt from the lack of a mega as all types have good megas apart from normal

I really don't think that mega khan would do anything besides give normal an incredibly powerful mon for really no reason, especially khangskhan almost needing no support normal is full of good physical attackers and an overpowered mega would not balance the meta or give a pretty good type something it needs but rather unnecessarily drop an overpowered mon for normal.

 

[TM93]

Seeing as certain ubers were unbanned for certain types, i would like to inquire if mega kangaskhan could be unbanned for mono normal as mono normal is hurt from the lack of a mega as all types have good megas apart from normal

Considering Mega Mom is what made Mono Normal horrifying to go up against pre-ban, I would say no to that.

Even the Standard set of PuP+EQ+Facade/Return+Crunch/Sucker Punch is also hitting quite literally everything in the game neutrally if not Super Effectively, at +2 there's almost nothing you can do to stop Mega Mom from sweeping half your team (I think I've done this argument dozens upon dozens of times). And unlike in OU, the vast majority of Types don't even have a semblance of a "counter" as it may be. And then on the types that do have a "counter", Mega Mom is so ungodly versatile that even if you do have a "counter" on your team, suddenly you come up against one of the dozen variant sets that just steamrolls you.

Mega Mom isn't healthy for any Metagame that isn't Ubers, plain and simple. And it should never be unbanned for Monotype, where teams have even less of a chance of packing a Check or Counter for it. Ever.

 

[Pyritie]

If we're doing "complex bans", we could allow m-kanga as long as it didn't have seismic toss or power-up punch. That way it's still a strong pokemon but isn't as ridiculously broken.

 

[truedrew]

granted that mega khan can be op the same thing applies to pokemons like mega mawile whom at +2 can analhate teams with its stabs respectively and seeing that the only potential counter to it is heatran and that heatran is only viable on steel/fire (vs fire mega mawile is a liability unless sub punch) shouldn't that be banned as well? seeing as most standard monotype teams cannot reliably counter mega mawile

In the same boat mega medicham is also really broken as it as that hjk to spam with virtually no drawbacks vs all types except ghost maybe and forces mono ice/rock/normal/dark/steel/any type neutral to fighting to run unusual shit like (for mono normal) intimidate bulky staraptor as thats the only thing that can take a hjk without dying and that also if rocks is not up (most of the scenarios it is)
-1 252 Atk Pure Power Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Staraptor: 156-184 (41.7 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
and mind you the above calc is jolly
-1 252+ Atk Pure Power Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Staraptor: 171-202 (45.7 - 54%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO and seeing as without stealth rocks it can have an almost 50% of 2hkoing the only viable check normal has towards this monster i would love to see how either of the aforementioned megas is healthy as mega khan rides on the same boat

And to the "being unhealthy" sometimes things are meant to be tested. Genesect was tested on steel and found to be broken hence banned all i am saying is unban mega khan so that at least mono normal has a fighting chance vs certain types (mainly fighting and steel and to an extent rock as well ) considering that the maximum mono normal can hope to beat steel is a curse milktank with fire punch and eq (skarmory walls diggersby to no end so please don't call it a counter to steel) and due to meloetta-pirouette being really unreliable due to its 1turn set up and it being walled by doublade ( knock off is viable but serious 4mss) and given its pathetic bulk means that 90% of the time mono steel beats mono normal especially if the opponent is using the multi wall broken core (ferro skarm tran and ?) and also mega aggron completely demolishes mono normal if its rest talk curse as only exploud is some chance vs steel but is fairly predictable and piss slow. Also the lack of good hazard removal severely cripples mono normal as steel teams can just stack and then force switches until the pokemon is broken. And if anyone says ditto is good anti hazard mon please do not after extensive testing ditto is easily worn out as its hp stat is horrible and it is succeptible to all entry hazards and a smart opponent knows how to wear it down

 

[DoW]

Seeing as certain ubers were unbanned for certain types, i would like to inquire if mega kangaskhan could be unbanned for mono normal as mono normal is hurt from the lack of a mega as all types have good megas apart from normal

*sigh*
I hoped this post wouldn't be noticed but since it has been, I guess it's time to knock it down.

Firstly, normal mono is already good. with premier walls such as the pink blobs, miltank and porygon2, along with support from the likes of porygon z, staraptor and ditto to stop setup sweepers, many teams struggle to beat normal if they don't have any stallbreakers. Moreover with only a single weakness defensively, they have a strong typing.
Secondly, megas are far from necessary. The most recent team I've built, a water team, had no megas simply because it didn't need any megas. I could have gone for mega gyarados over sub/leftovers gyarados, but I decided it wouldn't be as effective so simply didn't bother with a mega. Just because a pokemon is mega doesn't mean it's better, and you certainly don't need one in your team.
Thirdly, Mega Kanga is broken. If you were to try to make it less broken, for example banning power-up punch and seismic toss, the bans get far too complex far too quickly, and people start saying "What about if we have zekrom with no outrage? What about arceus with no extremespeed?" The metagame is inherently better the less complex the bans, and while we are introducing some complex bans they are still something we should be hesitant to implement.

So overall, Mega Kanga isn't needed, and would be broken if it were allowed in. No unban.

 

[truedrew]

*sigh*
I hoped this post wouldn't be noticed but since it has been, I guess it's time to knock it down.

Firstly, normal mono is already good. with premier walls such as the pink blobs, miltank and porygon2, along with support from the likes of porygon z, staraptor and ditto to stop setup sweepers, many teams struggle to beat normal if they don't have any stallbreakers. Moreover with only a single weakness defensively, they have a strong typing.
Secondly, megas are far from necessary. The most recent team I've built, a water team, had no megas simply because it didn't need any megas. I could have gone for mega gyarados over sub/leftovers gyarados, but I decided it wouldn't be as effective so simply didn't bother with a mega. Just because a pokemon is mega doesn't mean it's better, and you certainly don't need one in your team.
Thirdly, Mega Kanga is broken. If you were to try to make it less broken, for example banning power-up punch and seismic toss, the bans get far too complex far too quickly, and people start saying "What about if we have zekrom with no outrage? What about arceus with no extremespeed?" The metagame is inherently better the less complex the bans, and while we are introducing some complex bans they are still something we should be hesitant to implement.

So overall, Mega Kanga isn't needed, and would be broken if it were allowed in. No unban.

what people fail to realize atm the most spammed types all have very good counters to normal/stallers in general. the best hope of mono normal to maintain its viability without being complete taunt + knock off bait is to add an offensive powerhouse able to hold its own vs other types. the best attackers atm are diggersbro,staraptor, poryz/2, boomburstin and ursaring?_?

What mega kangaskhan allows is for mono normal to diversify it self from being a stallish team to take some sort of approach to bulky offense whilst still having a chacne vs unfavourable match ups

 

[Dirpz]

Look Im Just gonna say this now before people start suggesting anything else, We are not going to be unbanning anything, we are still dealing with Genesect (Bug), Shaymin-Sky (Grass), Kyurem-White (Ice), Mawilite (Fairy, And Steel), Aegislash (Ghost). We are probably not going to start unbanning things until Omega Ruby, And Alpha Sapphire when new mega's are added, to deem who is op and who is not, because the additions of these new megas, may alter the meta game. So Please dont suggest more unbans
.

If we're doing "complex bans", we could allow m-kanga as long as it didn't have seismic toss or power-up punch. That way it's still a strong pokemon but isn't as ridiculously broken.

As DoW Said To many complex bans it will come down to, like Xerneas without geomancy, and other stuff. It Maybe a good idea in theory but it will tear something up like remove king shield. Plus before the bans like Mega-Khan, Mega-Gar, and Mega-Luc over centralized a type. Do I feel with some of these unbans it over centralizing some more types yes I feel some types are getting loved. Do I agree that we should ban everything that has been unbanned No I don't.

So Please do not talk about unbanning more things K thx

 

[all falls down]

Hey guys, it has been around two weeks now since the new changes and after going through all the posts and most replays supplied, i've gathered some views and thoughts i'd like to share.

As we know, monotype has broken off from OU and its bans, and throughout this period, we decided to unban some pokemon previously banned in OU monotype, and the most notable ones being Genesect, Shaymin-sky for grass teams, and Kyurem-white for ice teams. These changes had the intention of diversifying the metagame much more than before, as grass/ice were lacking a lot of power and motivation to use them. However, throughout this testing period I have found (as well as many others) that it has indeed achieved what it was aimed to do, though perhaps at a cost. This 'cost' I speak of will be explained shortly, but first, I want to explain something below.

With the intention of diversifying the metagame, this could only be achieved with one option, which was to unban ubers that are not blatantly overpowered and could potentially fit in the monotype metagame. This sounds good when you think about it as more types roaming around means more diversity and competition, which is great! Although, this is where the 'cost' comes into play. Having more types viable enough to use can/has created a metagame where matchup (i.e what type you use/what type you are against) matters more. What this means exactly is, say a matchup of Flying vs Ice happens. Ice being much more buffed now has an even higher chance of winning against Flying, due to the unfavourable matchup and boost Ice has received. This is where you should ask "is trying to make more types balanced and viable a bad thing?". Types being equal means type matchup matters a whole lot more, and the beauty of monotype to me was winning despite having type disadvantages. And type matchup mattering is something we must avoid as much as possible. I mean, Talonflame was banned for its sheer force against bug/grass/fighting and relates to the nature of things being matchup based. Does that apply to Kyurem-white, Shaymin-Sky and Genesect? These are concerns I have and am not certain on where I stand yet. Previously our focus seemed to of been discussing the power those pokemon have, and now I want us to purely discuss those factors and ask yourselves the questions as well as the thoughts I've posed in this post.

Now, in regards with the discussion we have had so far, from what I've seen and experienced is that the only pokemon that proved to be blatantly overpowered and agreed upon by the majority was Genesect on Steel teams. The support Genesect has on Steel teams is phenomenal and its utility it gets with U-Turn+Download boost allows it to escape from unfavourable situations and leave heavy damage in the process. Whilst this applies to bug, the difference is that those potential switch ins on steel compared to bug are much more threatening due to the bulky teammates steel has, which include heatran/skarmory/ferrothorn absorbing hits with ease. Bug has much less synergy and is why Genesect is not as overpowered and does not warrant a ban at this point.

tl;dr Genesect is now type banned from Steel. Genesect(bug), Kyurem-white(ice) and Shaymin-sky(grass) shall remain until we reach a consensus on whether or not they promote type matchup mattering a whole lot more. If an outcome cannot be resolved, then we will end up manual suspect testing each one to get an exact measure on where people stand.

Again, all feedback is appreciated and thanks again everyone for your great posts as a community so far. I've enjoyed reading them all. #praiseMonotype #rof

Sorry Nani, but some types are meant to be bad. These "bad" types are Rock, Ghost, Grass, and Ice. Obviously, Arceus-Rock isn't going to be unbanned for Rock just because it has a sucky typing. The same should apply for Ghost, Grass and Ice. Skymin can dismantle slower teams by flinching it do death, while Kyurem-W can do the same by spamming Draco Meteor. As for the type matchup stuff, it's easy to see that a Grass team w/ Skymin can easily 6-0 a Fighting team just by sacking everything to bring Skymin in safely. The same goes for Bug / Grass as well. It's debatable that Skymin's even worse than Talonflame because it gets to hit Heatran (Earth Power) and dedicated Special Walls (Seed Flare). Skymin's moves have no recoil and they aren't affected by Rocky Helmet etc. Add Substitute and Pokemon like Mew, and Non Seismic-Toss Chansey are powerless against you. The only way to beat Skymin is scarfing Pokemon but keep in mind that the Venusaur / Ferrothorn core can take any Super Effective move against Skymin with ease. Not only that, I've seen Scarf Galvantula with HP Ice to get those surprise kills on Skymin. When Bug teams have to specifically run sketchy sets to beat Grass teams, something's wrong.
As for Kyurem-W the same thing's happening. Instead of an Ice Mono, it has become Kyurem-W and 5 death fodder-mons. Basically, every upper ladder Ice team is forced to run the same team in order to support Kyurem-W. A team would consist of these 6 mons: Kyurem-W (Sweeper), Avalugg / Cloyster (Spinner), Rotom / Walrein (Scizor Check, carries HP Fire), Frosslass (Fighting Check), Mamoswine (Standard for Fire / Steel teams), and something that has Rocks or an Anti Lead (Like Weavile). While this isn't the best support in the world, it's enough to scrape by. Another thing that's broken about Kyurem-W is its ability Turboblaze. As you all know, it ignores your opponent's ability. It may seem like nothing, but in Steel Monotypes, they're extremely important. There are now no safe switch ins to any of Kyurem-W's moves since Turboblaze cancels out Flash Fire, Sturdy etc. Kyurem-W is also blessed with an extremely viable movepool. And coming off of a base 170 Special Attack, nothing (Except Assault Vest Azumarill ofc) is safe.
Tbh, I really don't know why Genesect was unbanned other for testing purposes. Sporting a dual 120 attack it means that it can easily run mixed sets, and it gets the movepool to do so. 99 speed may be disappointing, but it isn't that important when you have webs up. Bug was never a bad type as well. It gets Mega Pinsir, a monster that's exclusive only to Bug teams and a ton of other "viable" options. These include Pokemon like Scizor, Volcarona, Forretress, Galvantula, Scolipede, and Shuckle. Yes, it may be hard to U-turn in and out because it has a weakness to Rocks, but a "good" Bug user can easily find times to Rapid Spin / Defog them away. Also, Bug doesn't need a defensive synergy because it's an offensive type overall. It's job is to hit as hard as possible while abusing webs.
I might've missed something so tell me if I did

I have to agree with Anttyaz here on her points on Genesect. I feel that Genesect should also be banned on bug at is no less broken on it than steel. Yes, bug does not have Skarmory or Heatran to switch into, but this is more or less insignificant when what Genesect brings to bug monotypes is looked at. As bug has the sticky web support that steel teams do not, there are more viable movesets for Genesect rather than the common scarfed set that was seen ever so often on steel monotypes. For example, a very viable moveset for Genesect on bug monotypes is a banded one, which if given the opportunity to get a download boost, will absolutely tear apart Rock and Fairy teams with the strong STAB iron head and will out-speed all of its threats with sticky web support. Bug users can also use the same scarfed set that steel monotypes used with boltbeam or bug buzz to demolish flying teams and psychic teams respectively, and while it may seem that it does not have the liberty to spam u-turn because of the team's weakness to stealth rocks, bug teams have very viable rapid spinners in Armaldo and Forretress and perhaps one of the most reliable defoggers in Scizor and Mega - Scizor. As Anttyaz said, bug teams also have Mega - Pinsir, which happens to completely screw over some common types like water and fighting. Adding Genesect to the mix causes bug monotypes' offensive pressure to be too much for many monotypes to handle, and as such I believe that Genesect deserves to be banned for bug as well.

 

[BrendanLee]

Alright people, so I was messing around with Sunny day Grass on the ladder. Stumbled upon a Fire mono thinking I wouldnt have a chance but...Skymin changed the the bad matchup! Praise Nani!! http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-163900335

 

[Inwhale]

I have to agree with Anttyaz here on her points on Genesect. I feel that Genesect should also be banned on bug at is no less broken on it than steel. Yes, bug does not have Skarmory or Heatran to switch into, but this is more or less insignificant when what Genesect brings to bug monotypes is looked at. As bug has the sticky web support that steel teams do not, there are more viable movesets for Genesect rather than the common scarfed set that was seen ever so often on steel monotypes. For example, a very viable moveset for Genesect on bug monotypes is a banded one, which if given the opportunity to get a download boost, will absolutely tear apart Rock and Fairy teams with the strong STAB iron head and will out-speed all of its threats with sticky web support. Bug users can also use the same scarfed set that steel monotypes used with boltbeam or bug buzz to demolish flying teams and psychic teams respectively, and while it may seem that it does not have the liberty to spam u-turn because of the team's weakness to stealth rocks, bug teams have very viable rapid spinners in Armaldo and Forretress and perhaps one of the most reliable defoggers in Scizor and Mega - Scizor. As Anttyaz said, bug teams also have Mega - Pinsir, which happens to completely screw over some common types like water and fighting. Adding Genesect to the mix causes bug monotypes' offensive pressure to be too much for many monotypes to handle, and as such I believe that Genesect deserves to be banned for bug as well.

Except a banded genesect does not outspeed and singlehandedly tear apart all threats that a fairy or rock type could be running with sticky web support, because fairy more often than not runs prankster klefki and/or whimsicott, a mega mawile which he simply cannot OHKO and has trouble 2HKOing if it's the intimidating kind, and while scarf toge is rare, it's certainly not unviable. Rock teams have genesect outsped by scarf terrakion, omastar after a shell smash and aerodactyl, to name a few, all of which can OHKO, with the exception of terrakion who can do so only after stealth rock. It can also get the attack boost on a more SpDef aligned pokemon, which are scarce on rock teams, and without which, the amount of threats rock can have against it is much larger, not to mention the debatably rare MegAggron. Also, you keep making the argument that gene is really good with these sets against types a and b AND against x and y if running a different set, but it's actually good against types a and b OR x and y if running a different set. In this regard genesect is similar to quite a few pokemon who are capable of running different sets to fulfill different roles for the team, and some pokes should always be expected to be really good against a couple of types, every type has these kinds of pokemon at the moment.
As for the "reliable" hazard removers bugs have, note that only one of them does not have a 4x weakness that doesn't let it be OHKOd regardless of EVs. And while I agree that mega pinsir is a strong late game sweeper, especially crippling to fighting and grass, a type having more than one really strong pokemon is not exactly unheard of.

 

[all falls down]

Except a banded genesect does not outspeed and singlehandedly tear apart all threats that a fairy or rock type could be running with sticky web support, because fairy more often than not runs prankster klefki and/or whimsicott, a mega mawile which he simply cannot OHKO and has trouble 2HKOing if it's the intimidating kind, and while scarf toge is rare, it's certainly not unviable. Rock teams have genesect outsped by scarf terrakion, omastar after a shell smash and aerodactyl, to name a few, all of which can OHKO, with the exception of terrakion who can do so only after stealth rock. It can also get the attack boost on a more SpDef aligned pokemon, which are scarce on rock teams, and without which, the amount of threats rock can have against it is much larger, not to mention the debatably rare MegAggron. Also, you keep making the argument that gene is really good with these sets against types a and b AND against x and y if running a different set, but it's actually good against types a and b OR x and y if running a different set. In this regard genesect is similar to quite a few pokemon who are capable of running different sets to fulfill different roles for the team, and some pokes should always be expected to be really good against a couple of types, every type has these kinds of pokemon at the moment.
As for the "reliable" hazard removers bugs have, note that only one of them does not have a 4x weakness that doesn't let it be OHKOd regardless of EVs. And while I agree that mega pinsir is a strong late game sweeper, especially crippling to fighting and grass, a type having more than one really strong pokemon is not exactly unheard of.

My point to Genesect on the fairy matchup that nothing can switch in without being 2HKO'd or OHKO'd:
(+1 252 Atk Choice Band Genesect Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Klefki: 211-250 (66.3 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)
(-1 252 Atk Choice Band Genesect Iron Head vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Mawile: 142-168 (51.8 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO[Keeping in mind that this is on the switch, even after the intimidate, it would be even more if it got the download boost..)
(252 Atk Choice Band Genesect Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Whimsicott: 302-356 (93.4 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO)

So your Klefki switch in wont work more than once, and even then you can easily switch to something like Galvantula to absorb the thunder-wave and then force the Klefki out or kill it, allowing Genesect to put on the pressure later on in the game. Scarf Togekiss is indeed viable, but Volcarona will happy eat the flamethrower and boost in front of Togekiss, and if it has a lum berry, can seriously threaten the Fairy team. Scarf Togekiss is in general a problem for bug, fighting, grass, and dragon but even then again you could go mixed scarf Genesect and well Togekiss will not appreciate the iron head :(+1 4 Atk Genesect Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 318-374 (102.2 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO)

Also it is important to note that if Togekiss is scarfed, Fairy is not using its only defogger and Togekiss will not appreciate switching into stealth rocks, either.
As for rock, Terrakion fails to OHKO Genesect while being easily OHKO'd in return, and Omastar will have a very rough time setting up on any Pokemon in a bug team. Admittedly, Mega-Aggron will not even notice most of Genesect's moves (252 Atk Choice Band Genesect Blaze Kick vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 81-96 (23.5 - 27.9%) -- 81% chance to 4HKO <--- wow) unless it is mixed in which case flamethrower will easily 2HKO. Mega-Aggron is also easily dealt with in Volcarona most of the time.

As for many types having more than one strong Pokemon, yes this is true, but part of what makes bug one of the few viable Hyper Offensive teams is that every single Pokemon is a huge threat to different monotypes, Volcarona, Mega - Pinsir, scarfed Heracross, and now Genesect added in conjunction with the other Pokemon sets bug over the edge at an unfair advantage, as it simply has the advantage in too many matchups.

 

[Inwhale]

My point to Genesect on the fairy matchup that nothing can switch in without being 2HKO'd or OHKO'd:
(+1 252 Atk Choice Band Genesect Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Klefki: 211-250 (66.3 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)
(-1 252 Atk Choice Band Genesect Iron Head vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Mawile: 142-168 (51.8 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO[Keeping in mind that this is on the switch, even after the intimidate, it would be even more if it got the download boost..)
(252 Atk Choice Band Genesect Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Whimsicott: 302-356 (93.4 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO)

So your Klefki switch in wont work more than once, and even then you can easily switch to something like Galvantula to absorb the thunder-wave and then force the Klefki out or kill it, allowing Genesect to put on the pressure later on in the game. Scarf Togekiss is indeed viable, but Volcarona will happy eat the flamethrower and boost in front of Togekiss, and if it has a lum berry, can seriously threaten the Fairy team. Scarf Togekiss is in general a problem for bug, fighting, grass, and dragon but even then again you could go mixed scarf Genesect and well Togekiss will not appreciate the iron head :(+1 4 Atk Genesect Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 318-374 (102.2 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO)

Also it is important to note that if Togekiss is scarfed, Fairy is not using its only defogger and Togekiss will not appreciate switching into stealth rocks, either.
As for rock, Terrakion fails to OHKO Genesect while being easily OHKO'd in return, and Omastar will have a very rough time setting up on any Pokemon in a bug team. Admittedly, Mega-Aggron will not even notice most of Genesect's moves (252 Atk Choice Band Genesect Blaze Kick vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 81-96 (23.5 - 27.9%) -- 81% chance to 4HKO <--- wow) unless it is mixed in which case flamethrower will easily 2HKO. Mega-Aggron is also easily dealt with in Volcarona most of the time.

As for many types having more than one strong Pokemon, yes this is true, but part of what makes bug one of the few viable Hyper Offensive teams is that every single Pokemon is a huge threat to different monotypes, Volcarona, Mega - Pinsir, scarfed Heracross, and now Genesect added in conjunction with the other Pokemon sets bug over the edge at an unfair advantage, as it simply has the advantage in too many matchups.

And while just about everything what you said is true, my point was that gene can't beat fairy or rock ALONE,which is what you seemed to imply in your previous post. I merely wanted to say that genesect's dominance over those two types can be easily compared to say, victini over bug or grass. While not able to sweep on it's own, with decent support all it has to do is switch out after a v-create or 2 if necessary, rinse and repeat. While the difference with most other highly offensive pivots lies in it's very good movepool, it's always only dominant against a couple of types at a time. pointing out that it can switch in this or that situation is irrelevant, because plausible switches requires prediction from both sides- a klefki can also predict aa galv switch for example and set up walls or switch to an appropriate pokemon, if either player predicts wrong they are boned. When specifically talking about the vs fairy, that's basically what a banded scizor does anyway, and the general consensus on that is that it's not overpowered for the metagame. A banded genesect would not run flamethrower, it would be one or the other, and either won't get a guaranteed cleanup on rock.
Also note that you forgot to evolve mawile after the first hit (not a guaranteed 2hKO, although it's a high chance), and i never said that terrakion can OHKO gene on it's own, i said after rocks.

 

[Auburn]

Okay so I already posted my replays with genesect on steel, and soon will be posting my replays for Shaymin-Sky on grass. (pls note I've been doing matches with the three in ladders to test how they do against all typings and shaymin and kyurem-w are taking me time to find matches where they absolutely walk through teams) but yeah with that said, as of now I personally feel Shaymin sky as of now isn't ban worthy, again I'm posting all my recent matches with Shaymin shortly. As for Kyurem-W yes I do find it can be troublesome for teams but also I find that it was so overrated compared to people claiming it's "break the meta", in cases on ice I found that kyurem-Black to be more useful for ice, but I'm still continuing my tests on it and will have those posted after skymin, and genesect on bug shortly after that

 

[Dark T]

So we can use Mega-Gengar, Mega-Kangaskhan, Aeigislash, Mega-Mawile, and Deoxies_D? I noticed they are not on the ban list

 

[Nani Man]

So we can use Mega-Gengar, Mega-Kangaskhan, Aeigislash, Mega-Mawile, and Deoxies_D? I noticed they are not on the ban list

Gengarite and Kangaskhanite are under the items that are banned, so no, you cannot use them. However, Aegislash is type banned from Steel, and usable on Ghost. Mawilite is allowed for both Steel and Fairy, and Deoxys-D is unbanned too. Please refer to this post to check the ban list next time.

 

[Auburn]

Well i Finally finished up my Shaymin-Sky tests in the ladders. and from all my matches i noticed that it was FAR overrated compared to the people talking about wanting it banned. like if you honestly have troubles with outspeeding a skymin get a scarfer on your team to take it out, or else even force a switch out on it, and with grass, it isn't really that hard to overcome grass teams as a whole imo, but yeah i have gotten 10 replays of skymin now in matches that they actually played a role in. so you can be the judge from the matches, but in my honest opinion it's nothing so ground breaking in the meta compared to other pokes. Example: Mega Medicham, even though it is ou, it is a devastating force within the monotype Meta, Zard X on flying can be a real comeback threat, Genesect itself is a hit and run monster with that download. but what i'm trying to point out is that skymin can be easily walled on teams with a nice special tank, and please don't try reply with the whole "but it has a 60% flinch chance", because you don't see people going on rants about wanting to ban togekiss, meanwhile that thing even has access to t-wave, but yeah from personally testing skymin my vote is firm on keeping it in the monotype meta.


Shaymin-Sky
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oumonotype-158179038 Vs Flying

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oumonotype-158603113 Grass vs Grass

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oumonotype-158615476 vs Poison

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-164057526 vs Fighting

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-164062310 Vs Ghost

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-164063125 vs Bug

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-164988522 vs Dark

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-164990005 vs Bug

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-164991242 vs Bug

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-164994963 vs Ice

 

[Dark T]

Well i Finally finished up my Shaymin-Sky tests in the ladders. and from all my matches i noticed that it was FAR overrated compared to the people talking about wanting it banned. like if you honestly have troubles with outspeeding a skymin get a scarfer on your team to take it out, or else even force a switch out on it, and with grass, it isn't really that hard to overcome grass teams as a whole imo, but yeah i have gotten 10 replays of skymin now in matches that they actually played a role in. so you can be the judge from the matches, but in my honest opinion it's nothing so ground breaking in the meta compared to other pokes. Example: Mega Medicham, even though it is ou, it is a devastating force within the monotype Meta, Zard X on flying can be a real comeback threat, Genesect itself is a hit and run monster with that download. but what i'm trying to point out is that skymin can be easily walled on teams with a nice special tank, and please don't try reply with the whole "but it has a 60% flinch chance", because you don't see people going on rants about wanting to ban togekiss, meanwhile that thing even has access to t-wave, but yeah from personally testing skymin my vote is firm on keeping it in the monotype meta.
Shaymin-Sky
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-164994963 vs Ice

Ha ha! Nice, that's our battle!