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Hey guys, some changes I want to inform everyone on!
Tiering Philosophy
The old goal was to create a metagame where all types would be near equal and all can be used fairly. This was flawed and only promotes type matchup mattering, rather than skill. We tried this and it failed, and now we have moved to a new goal explained below.
The new goal is to create a balanced metagame, such that all types can be used. The keyword here is used. This doesn't mean all types must be equally viable, but rather usable and competitive. As I've stated before, the beauty of monotype is to defeat Fire with Steel, Electric with Water and so on. Making all those types forcefully equal just results in type matchup mattering, meaning Fire would definitely beat Steel, Electric would definitely beat Water and so on.
Reasoning to ban
Things to look for when deciding to discuss and potentially ban a pokemon, is usually the following checklist:
If a pokemon creates an auto-win condition such as Talonflame did (+1 Brave Bird vs Grass/Bug/Fighting), it is overpowered and will be banned.
1. If a pokemon promotes type based matchups mattering a whole lot more, it will also be banned. (eg Kyurem-W,Skymin)
2. If the pokemon itself is broken by either a) team support or b) natural strength, it will be banned. (eg Mega Slowbro/Mence)
3. If the pokemon forms a deadly core that cannot be beaten by most teams, it will be banned. (eg Aegislash on Steel)
Not sure who or when this idea was embraced, but I know that I and everyone else involved in the Talonflame discussion reached a general agreement that point of a Banlist was to make each Type viable rather than equal. Don't know who supported the idea of making each Type viable, but I think it goes without saying that that's not practical. I mean, look
But this is the heart and soul of Monotype; the trademark of the Tier: to prove that although you are at a disadvantage, that you are creative, skilled, and smart enough to overcome it. This is the Tier where an otherwise unused (or in this case a Never or Rarely or Under Used) Pokemon finds a niche and finds a home. One such Pokemon is Articuno, who, despite sharing an enhanced SR Weakness with its Teammates, has found a niche as a Check to Swift Swim Teams with powerful Special Attackers and Rain Abusers on my Flying Team with Salamence.
But if each Team is inevitably vulnerable to a certain Pokemon and will have a hard time no matter what, why should there be a need for a Banlist?
Because the object of the Metagame is to achieve a state of balance, in which players have the options to and not to use certain playstyles, Pokemon, or Monotype Teams. This does not necessarily mean making a specified Monotype or play style better, but rather Viable, or usable.
And certain Pokemon in this Tier have an unacceptable dominance over the Metagame that it greatly discourages the use of certain Monotypes to the point where they turn a Type Disadvantage from a challenge, to a near impossible, luck-based, and/or frustrating experience.
One such Pokemon that, in my opinion, makes the Metagame unhealthy by discouraging players from using certain Types is Talonflame.
It looks like DoW's proposal (can we call it that?) has received some positive feedback, so I'll begin thinking about it in a bit more detail. ArVaDa-, I'm not inclined to just do this in an ad hoc manner like that. While I don't know off the top of my head, I'm certain there are some formulations of Elo/Glicko ratings that take into account a "player advantage". These would be the first place to start.
Naturally, when I gave the example values of 30 & 30 it was just a placeholder for what the actual values would've been. For instance the high ladder complains in a rather silly manner about getting +5 elo from matches to a lower player, while if they lost it would be -35 or something. I was merely saying that along with the scalars already being used, this could be a "mono only" scalar that is added to the system for points. I don't know if that works, but off the top of my head that sounded like a good idea haha. Regardless of whether you interpreted me correctly or not I don't have much standing in the math or knowledge of how this works so I'll leave you to, being scp.
I've been looking into methods of calculating the Elo were the proposal to be implemented, there's precident for this kind of thing in chess but the calculations assume that all players use every type equally (which is fair enough in chess where you're black 50% and white 50%, but can't be carried over to mono). I think it should be possible to work out, at the very least, a conservative estimate of the difference it would make which would then be applied; once this had been done we could always revisit and change the differences made as the meta progressed. However this is all very hypothetical, I recommend that if we want to discuss this (at least, the details of how to determine it etc.) a PM might be better in order to sort it out.
Greninja (aka based Swag Frog Ninja) doesn't need a ban, for a few reasons.
Pros:
Excellent coverage
Amazing Speed
Usable attack and special attack
Protean!!!
Cons:
Is usually choice locked, or carries LO
Pretty frail
Some of its most common moves leave it weak to priority (Grass Knot to Ice Shard, Night Slash/Dark Pulse to Mach Punch, Ice Beam/Rock Slide to Bullet Punch/Mach Punch, Extrasensory/Shadow Sneak to Sucker Punch)
First of all, I'm just gonna say it does get good support, however it can't really take advantage of the Wish passing as it can't take a hit too well.
Second, if it is choice locked, you can wall the move it is using. I'll use Grass and Flying as examples since they are the types I have been using most recently.
If Gunk Shot: Skarm/Ferrothorn
If Low Kick: Togekiss or Skarm/Mega Venusaur
If Acrobatics: Skarm/Ferro
If Rock Slide: Skarm/Ferro
If Extrasensory: Skarm or Togekiss/Ferrothorn (Mega Venusaur isn't 2HKOed by Mixed Scarf Ninja using Extrasensory)
If HP Fire: Char X/Mega Venusaur
If Dark Pulse: Togekiss/Mega Venusaur
If Ice Beam: Char X/Mega Venusaur
If Night Slash: Skarm/Ferro
If Hydro Pump: Zapdos (Pressure/Roost stall or just Discharge)/Mega Venusaur
I didn't say Grass Knot, Shadow Sneak, or Water Shuriken as it likely won't use priority on a Choice set, and Grass Knot vs. Grass and Flying is lol (outside Mega Gyarados, but I use Char X). If it is LO, my main strategy for Grass is to Leech Seed it, then stall for Seed/LO damage, switching between my walls if necessary or outspeed it with Skymin (which I obviously can't do anymore). On Flying my usual strategy is to Paralyze it with Thundy-I, then kill it either with Thundy-I, Lando-I, or Togekiss hax. If it is SubLiechi, I just break the Sub, and then Paralyze it if I can, or just wall it with Skarm, getting Rocky Helmet chip damage, or Ferrothorn with Iron Barbs chip damage. If it is Expert Belt, then it won't get a boost if it doesn't hit it SE, and so I can wall the move it picked with something that takes it neutrally. Even if it does get the boost, it is still less than LO or Specs, so it is easily walled. Scarfers also outspeed non-Scarf Ninja. Any status wrecks Greninja, as it relies on its speed, and hates the chip damage that will force it to switch or die. So to conclude, Greninja is a top-tier threat, but it has 4mss, and it can be played around by good switching or by statusing it.
Just to compliment inf tropius comment (I don't know the quoting mechanics yet to full soo plz roll with it)
Just to reply to your comment I'm gonna go with generic top 5 teams teams: (leaving out fly)
btw if my calcs are correct then greninja is part on 10% of the teams total...
The most used greninja set (using the 6 moves it uses the most according to the website)
Ice beam, extrasensory, grass knot, hydro pump, gunk shot and dark pulse
Now about types handling it, I won't be talking about items cuz you know is either scarf/LO (and I'll be using the 6 more used pokes of every type so Imma go #generic)
Against psychic:
Slowbro: 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 338-400 (85.7 - 101.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO and/flinch slowbro
Victini: 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 398-468 (116.7 - 137.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (it really is a coinflip if victini is scarfed then gren dies if not tini dies)
Meloetta is the best stop for gren it takes less then half if assault vest and KO with focus blast so 1 check for it
Mew: 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 108 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 289-343 (78.5 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (and mew almost never carries an attack so mew gets rekt)
Gardevoir: dies to gunk shot
Mega metagross: 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 265-315 (88 - 104.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKObut then it gets killed by meteor mash
against water:
Azu can't kill it with aqua jet: 0 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 390-460 (107.1 - 126.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Keldeo: is the best check he has if no extrasensory or if keldeo is carrying scarf is not:252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD keldeo: 315-374 (97.5 - 115.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
Swampert: also kind of walls if not grass knot and takes a hit and kill it with earthquake if grass knot GG swam
Mega-Gyarados: the same as swampert if grass knot GG
and lanturn can tank anything from it soo there's a solid check to the frog.
Against steel: ROTFL there's nothing greninja can do here it gets walled if HP fire (which doesn't have viability anyways) cuz ferro,skarm,heatran wall it.
Against bug:
bulky volcarona: walls it it takes all of the powerfull hits and doesn't die to hydro pump (nor Lo nor specs) and if it goes for Hydro pump volc giga drains and bye frog
Genesect: with no HP nor defensive investment eats a specs timid hydro pump (does close to 99%) and revenge kill it and if scarf genesect then bye!
pinsir: dies to LO hydro pump and if mega it dies to ice beam, quick attack does close to 50%
scarfcross (hera) spam is always good against dark and if greninja is not scarfed and if it doesn't carry extrasensory then GG greninja
galvantula dies to hydro pump but it always carries sash and takes down greninja with thunder
scizor gets 2 shoted by hydro pump and it can't KO back with anything
against fighting: If shadow sneak and extrasensory GG fighting or at least a good part of the team cuz shadow sneak on a faster poke outspeeds mach punch
and last type Imma be analysing is: Dark (assuming no low kick)
sableye mega gets 2-3 shoted by hydro pump (and it can't KO back, shadow ball does about 17.8 - 21%)
bisharp gets 1 shoted by hydro pump and sucker punch does around 50% to greninja so no hope there
mandibuzz gets 2 shoted by ice beam but it also takes around 50% on gren with brave bird
t.tar: scarf stone edges takes around 92% and it doesn't get KOd by LO hydro pump
hydreigon dies to ice beam.
In conclusion: After doing the most generic calculation I was able to do I think of the top 6 types (the ones that dominate the weighted stats)
the only type that gets uterly destroyed by greninja is psychic, all of the other teams have a usable wall to stop it, so I'm starting to believe is not that broken, soonish I can post the calcs on all the other types, but at the end of all the calcs I can see that even if it gets checked it destroys a lot of the most used pokes (or severly dents them and just to remind you guys greninja has the support it needs in both its types and powerfull priority users in azu and bisharp, so that's another thing you guys must discuss) but I stand by what I said before Ban protean and let ppl keep greninja it would be still amazing but not as powerfull as it is now but I'm starting to think is not really broken
I stand by what I said before Ban protean and let ppl keep greninja it would be still amazing but not as powerfull as it is now but I'm starting to think is not really broken
Protean as an ability itself is not broken. It is only POTENTIALLY broken on Greninja. Kecleon, Froakie, and Frogadier (the other Protean users) are not broken, so there is no need to nerf them. Greninja is the only good user of Protean in monotype, so the only bans are gonna be Greninja as a Pokemon, or Greninja+Protean (a complex ban). However, complex bans are usually not allowed, so it is either Greninja stays or Greninja goes.
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I'm going to back up what InfernapeTropius11 said. Protean itself is not broken, proven by the fact that the other users of it are rather mediocre. Greninja's case is very similar to Blaziken's. Speed Boost is an amazing ability, but it's not good enough that we should ban it. It's the combination of Blaziken's great attack stat, typing, and movepool along with Speed Boost to account for it's less-than-desirable base speed stat that makes it so lethal. In an ideal world, we could just ban Protean on Greninja and be done with it, but Smogon doesn't do complex bans like that. So just like Blaziken and just as InfernapeTropius11 said, Greninja either stays or it goes. There is no in between.
Greninja (aka based Swag Frog Ninja) doesn't need a ban, for a few reasons.
Pros:
Excellent coverage
Amazing Speed
Usable attack and special attack
Protean!!!
Cons:
Is usually choice locked, or carries LO
Pretty frail
Some of its most common moves leave it weak to priority (Grass Knot to Ice Shard, Night Slash/Dark Pulse to Mach Punch, Ice Beam/Rock Slide to Bullet Punch/Mach Punch, Extrasensory/Shadow Sneak to Sucker Punch)
First of all, I'm just gonna say it does get good support, however it can't really take advantage of the Wish passing as it can't take a hit too well.
Second, if it is choice locked, you can wall the move it is using. I'll use Grass and Flying as examples since they are the types I have been using most recently.
If Gunk Shot: Skarm/Ferrothorn
If Low Kick: Togekiss or Skarm/Mega Venusaur
If Acrobatics: Skarm/Ferro
If Rock Slide: Skarm/Ferro
If Extrasensory: Skarm or Togekiss/Ferrothorn (Mega Venusaur isn't 2HKOed by Mixed Scarf Ninja using Extrasensory)
If HP Fire: Char X/Mega Venusaur
If Dark Pulse: Togekiss/Mega Venusaur
If Ice Beam: Char X/Mega Venusaur
If Night Slash: Skarm/Ferro
If Hydro Pump: Zapdos (Pressure/Roost stall or just Discharge)/Mega Venusaur
I didn't say Grass Knot, Shadow Sneak, or Water Shuriken as it likely won't use priority on a Choice set, and Grass Knot vs. Grass and Flying is lol (outside Mega Gyarados, but I use Char X). If it is LO, my main strategy for Grass is to Leech Seed it, then stall for Seed/LO damage, switching between my walls if necessary or outspeed it with Skymin (which I obviously can't do anymore). On Flying my usual strategy is to Paralyze it with Thundy-I, then kill it either with Thundy-I, Lando-I, or Togekiss hax. If it is SubLiechi, I just break the Sub, and then Paralyze it if I can, or just wall it with Skarm, getting Rocky Helmet chip damage, or Ferrothorn with Iron Barbs chip damage. If it is Expert Belt, then it won't get a boost if it doesn't hit it SE, and so I can wall the move it picked with something that takes it neutrally. Even if it does get the boost, it is still less than LO or Specs, so it is easily walled. Scarfers also outspeed non-Scarf Ninja. Any status wrecks Greninja, as it relies on its speed, and hates the chip damage that will force it to switch or die. So to conclude, Greninja is a top-tier threat, but it has 4mss, and it can be played around by good switching or by statusing it.
As to your "mostly choice locked" comment, that isn't true at all:
Life Orb 59.918% | | Choice Scarf 24.933% - From Smogon's Official Data Usage for January http://www.smogon.com/stats/
You say it has 4MSS, and while that might have been true before ORAS, in my opinion the optimal Greninja set of Life Orb with Gunk Shot, Ice Beam, Hydro Pump, and Dark Pulse pretty much does everything Greninja needs to do.
Analyzing switch in opportunities once it is locked isn't valid because:
Greninja is usually Life Orbed, letting it freely switch between its deadly coverage
"I'll switch into this hoping it uses this" isn't a good reason to support it for being balanced, especially considering that Pokemon could (and most likely will)be threatened by another move
Both of the types you mention are destroyed by pretty much only spamming Ice Beam anyways...why look at Greninja locking itself into those other moves?
Being weak to Priority isn't a good argument either IMO, as not only do most monotypes not have good priority, but as Greninja changes types a specific type of priority won't consistently work against it anyways. Not even mentioning how the two types Greninja is on has some of the best balanced defensive cores in the metagame, letting Greninja switch in out with little to no cost.
Seeing as Greninja's coverage and speed threatens every single monotype to the point that it will almost always kill something, and has an optimal set that can get about everything it needs to, along with being able to outright destroy a few monotypes that have to rely on obscure Pokemon to be a shaky check to Greninja, I think that Greninja has always deserved the ban since its new movepool additions from ORAS.
Nani Man said:
Reasoning to ban
Things to look for when deciding to discuss and potentially ban a pokemon, is usually the following checklist:
If a pokemon creates an auto-win condition such as Talonflame did (+1 Brave Bird vs Grass/Bug/Fighting), it is overpowered and will be banned.
1. If a pokemon promotes type based matchups mattering a whole lot more, it will also be banned. (eg Kyurem-W,Skymin)
2. If the pokemon itself is broken by either a) team support or b) natural strength, it will be banned. (eg Mega Slowbro/Mence)
3. If the pokemon forms a deadly core that cannot be beaten by most teams, it will be banned. (eg Aegislash on Steel)
I think that Greninja can be banned based upon the second philosophy; Water and Dark teams have absolutely amazing team support, and Greninja's coverage in four moves is able to beat almost the entire tier.
I feel like the only reason we haven't banned Greninja yet is the impact it would have, making the top 3 used types even better and skewing the metagame into a centralized one.
Just to compliment inf tropius comment (I don't know the quoting mechanics yet to full soo plz roll with it)
Just to reply to your comment I'm gonna go with generic top 5 teams teams: (leaving out fly)
btw if my calcs are correct then greninja is part on 10% of the teams total...
The most used greninja set (using the 6 moves it uses the most according to the website)
Ice beam, extrasensory, grass knot, hydro pump, gunk shot and dark pulse
Now about types handling it, I won't be talking about items cuz you know is either scarf/LO (and I'll be using the 6 more used pokes of every type so Imma go #generic)
Against psychic:
Slowbro: 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 338-400 (85.7 - 101.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO and/flinch slowbro
Victini: 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 398-468 (116.7 - 137.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (it really is a coinflip if victini is scarfed then gren dies if not tini dies)
Meloetta is the best stop for gren it takes less then half if assault vest and KO with focus blast so 1 check for it
Mew: 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 108 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 289-343 (78.5 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (and mew almost never carries an attack so mew gets rekt)
Gardevoir: dies to gunk shot
Mega metagross: 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 265-315 (88 - 104.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKObut then it gets killed by meteor mash
against water:
Azu can't kill it with aqua jet: 0 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 390-460 (107.1 - 126.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Keldeo: is the best check he has if no extrasensory or if keldeo is carrying scarf is not:252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD keldeo: 315-374 (97.5 - 115.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
Swampert: also kind of walls if not grass knot and takes a hit and kill it with earthquake if grass knot GG swam
Mega-Gyarados: the same as swampert if grass knot GG
and lanturn can tank anything from it soo there's a solid check to the frog.
Against steel: ROTFL there's nothing greninja can do here it gets walled if HP fire (which doesn't have viability anyways) cuz ferro,skarm,heatran wall it.
Against bug:
bulky volcarona: walls it it takes all of the powerfull hits and doesn't die to hydro pump (nor Lo nor specs) and if it goes for Hydro pump volc giga drains and bye frog
Genesect: with no HP nor defensive investment eats a specs timid hydro pump (does close to 99%) and revenge kill it and if scarf genesect then bye!
pinsir: dies to LO hydro pump and if mega it dies to ice beam, quick attack does close to 50%
scarfcross (hera) spam is always good against dark and if greninja is not scarfed and if it doesn't carry extrasensory then GG greninja
galvantula dies to hydro pump but it always carries sash and takes down greninja with thunder
scizor gets 2 shoted by hydro pump and it can't KO back with anything
against fighting: If shadow sneak and extrasensory GG fighting or at least a good part of the team cuz shadow sneak on a faster poke outspeeds mach punch
and last type Imma be analysing is: Dark (assuming no low kick)
sableye mega gets 2-3 shoted by hydro pump (and it can't KO back, shadow ball does about 17.8 - 21%)
bisharp gets 1 shoted by hydro pump and sucker punch does around 50% to greninja so no hope there
mandibuzz gets 2 shoted by ice beam but it also takes around 50% on gren with brave bird
t.tar: scarf stone edges takes around 92% and it doesn't get KOd by LO hydro pump
hydreigon dies to ice beam.
In conclusion: After doing the most generic calculation I was able to do I think of the top 6 types (the ones that dominate the weighted stats)
the only type that gets uterly destroyed by greninja is psychic, all of the other teams have a usable wall to stop it, so I'm starting to believe is not that broken, soonish I can post the calcs on all the other types, but at the end of all the calcs I can see that even if it gets checked it destroys a lot of the most used pokes (or severly dents them and just to remind you guys greninja has the support it needs in both its types and powerfull priority users in azu and bisharp, so that's another thing you guys must discuss) but I stand by what I said before Ban protean and let ppl keep greninja it would be still amazing but not as powerfull as it is now but I'm starting to think is not really broken
For Psychic - You say Meloetta is a check, but Assault vest variants are nearly guaranteed OHKOd by the combination of Dark Pulse and Gunk Shot, not even considering any hazards:
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Meloetta: 156-187 (38.7 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 200-238 (49.6 - 59%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
For Water - One of the best equipped, but even then just the optimal set is a huge threat:
4 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 40 HP / 252 Def Lanturn: 177-211 (44.1 - 52.6%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 175-208 (54.1 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Swampert: 177-211 (43.8 - 52.2%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Still no switch-ins barring lucky double predictions, also if it has Grass Knot it 2HKO/OHKOs everything anyways, no switch ins.
For bug -
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 382-452 (102.4 - 121.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 186-220 (65.2 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Bug does have sticky web and powerful scarf users that can revenge kill Greninja, but no switch-ins and it revenge kills pretty much everything that isn't scarfed.
Dark/Water also have walls that can take on the Bug Pokemon you mention (moreso Dark)
Fighting is another type that is home to a lot of checks for Greninja, but it still has its walls for backup and can still ohko nearly everything if it outspeeds.
As for your Galvantula argument sashes are not reliable, considering Tyranitar's sand, the plethora of hazards Dark and Water have access to, and prior damage.
For Steel - Hydro pump demolishes once Ferrothorn is gone, and Ice Beam does a huge amount to Ferrothorn anyways
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 125-148 (35.5 - 42%) -- 83.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Also: Mega Sableye completely counters Ferrothorn, Taunt Mandibuzz beats it 1v1, and for Water while it is more of a threat, Greninja still has Fire Blast Slowbro and others to switch into.
For Psychic - You say Meloetta is a check, but Assault vest variants are nearly guaranteed OHKOd by the combination of Dark Pulse and Gunk Shot, not even considering any hazards:
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Meloetta: 156-187 (38.7 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 200-238 (49.6 - 59%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
For Water - One of the best equipped, but even then just the optimal set is a huge threat:
4 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 40 HP / 252 Def Lanturn: 177-211 (44.1 - 52.6%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 175-208 (54.1 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Swampert: 177-211 (43.8 - 52.2%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Still no switch-ins barring lucky double predictions, also if it has Grass Knot it 2HKO/OHKOs everything anyways, no switch ins.
For bug -
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 382-452 (102.4 - 121.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 186-220 (65.2 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Bug does have sticky web and powerful scarf users that can revenge kill Greninja, but no switch-ins and it revenge kills pretty much everything that isn't scarfed.
Dark/Water also have walls that can take on the Bug Pokemon you mention (moreso Dark)
Fighting is another type that is home to a lot of checks for Greninja, but it still has its walls for backup and can still ohko nearly everything if it outspeeds.
As for your Galvantula argument sashes are not reliable, considering Tyranitar's sand, the plethora of hazards Dark and Water have access to, and prior damage.
For Steel - Hydro pump demolishes once Ferrothorn is gone, and Ice Beam does a huge amount to Ferrothorn anyways
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 125-148 (35.5 - 42%) -- 83.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Also: Mega Sableye completely counters Ferrothorn, Taunt Mandibuzz beats it 1v1, and for Water while it is more of a threat, Greninja still has Fire Blast Slowbro and others to switch into.
Welp.... 1st I used the sets/stats on the website marked as number 1 set for the poke...
disclaimer 1: all my calcs are 1v1 and yes, maybe for it to work you need to lose something
#dealwithit #threatsarethreats #thatiswhatmakesit #relevant
On psy: 1v1 is hard for gren to have all the coverage to take melo down (4 mss) cuz no gunk shot when you have meta/jirachi, As previously stated psy gets utterly destroyed by greninja.
On water: lel you counted the 2HKO as a switch I posted as 1v1 and swampert kills it with eq, lanturn t-waves and then confoose ray and then spam scald/discharge as you like (and really counting SR damage is kind of hard to count against water with almost all SR setters on dark are really weakned by water moves and almost all fear scald burns,also water has starmie, tentacruel and blastoise as rapid spinners so I don't think is a huge concern) and Keldeo can kill it with a scarf (which is not really that far fetched)
On bug: use the set that's on the website, it takes a hydro and then it kills with giga drain, and also bug has a lot of support (volbeat and webs) and it doesn't need to go HO, and galvantula is used as a lead, and so is greninja (usually lead or late game cleaner), and bug vs dark is an uphill battle and bug SE puts a lot of pressure (not even t-tar can stop it)
fighting is a 50/50 so I let that up for debate
for steel: if gren uses ice beam on ferro (lel gyro ball much) also it can seed, protect + life orb GG gren, ferro stops it, skarm walls it and on hydro pump rekts heatran, but steel has a lot of walls and has a lot of power so don't even...Don't understimate steel nor water...
finishing this part of the analisys I used to be on the ban greninja and send it to hell but now after actually reading some stats and making some calcs I realise that is not actually broken, is just like charX and some other (currently I don't remember but that's the point) mons that you should prepare for, if you're psychic then GG (IMO is kind of bound to happen if vs dark, regular and good dark now destroy psy without mega-gallade or is an uphill battle like it should be) and if smogon can't ban protean I say maybe a type ban on dark because is the type that gives it more support like all falls down said mandi and sableye are really good support and maybe suspect it on water... that's all, tomorrow I'll post the damage on the other types so ppl can read if the damage is too big or no ( I'm currently single so F my life)
Welp.... 1st I used the sets/stats on the website marked as number 1 set for the poke...
disclaimer 1: all my calcs are 1v1 and yes, maybe for it to work you need to lose something
#dealwithit #threatsarethreats #thatiswhatmakesit #relevant
On psy: 1v1 is hard for gren to have all the coverage to take melo down (4 mss) cuz no gunk shot when you have meta/jirachi, As previously stated psy gets utterly destroyed by greninja.
All it literally needs is Dark Pulse and Gunk Shot to destroy Psychic, and those are almost on every Greninja.
On water: lel you counted the 2HKO as a switch I posted as 1v1 and swampert kills it with eq, lanturn t-waves and then confoose ray and then spam scald/discharge as you like (and really counting SR damage is kind of hard to count against water with almost all SR setters on dark are really weakned by water moves and almost all fear scald burns,also water has starmie, tentacruel and blastoise as rapid spinners so I don't think is a huge concern) and Keldeo can kill it with a scarf (which is not really that far fetched)
Sure they can win 1v1 but chances are Greninja are going to be coming in on something offensive, not trying to wallbreak. Yeah Water has rapid spinners but Sableye successfully spinblocks all of them; defog Empoleon is destroyed/pressured greatly by Bisharp... it is very easy to keep rocks on with a Dark team.
On bug: use the set that's on the website, it takes a hydro and then it kills with giga drain, and also bug has a lot of support (volbeat and webs) and it doesn't need to go HO, and galvantula is used as a lead, and so is greninja (usually lead or late game cleaner), and bug vs dark is an uphill battle and bug SE puts a lot of pressure (not even t-tar can stop it)
What set..? That's the standard bulky Volcarona set, and Hydro Pump OHKOs it every single time. Volbeat isn't even viable, I don't think you can use that as a reason to support your argument. Sticky webs I mentioned but Mandibuzz pretty much walls everything on bug besides Galvantula so it's really easy for it to defog. As for Greninja being used as a lead.. It's almost never used as a lead for dark, only against some types like Flying. Dark's leads are usually
1 | Tyranitar | 27.81703% or
2 | Sableye | 24.84095%
Bug vs Dark I would say is pretty neutral in most cases, the only exception if there's something that really kills dark like Life Orb Genesect or Banded heracross; Mandibuzz + Tyranitar + Greninja have tremendous potential against bug teams.
for steel: if gren uses ice beam on ferro (lel gyro ball much) also it can seed, protect + life orb GG gren, ferro stops it, skarm walls it and on hydro pump rekts heatran, but steel has a lot of walls and has a lot of power so don't even...Don't understimate steel nor water...
Uhh hello, how does Skarmory wall Greninja LOL? Even Ice beam does like 70% on it... Ferrothorn doesn't "stop" it because it its 3HKO'd by Ice beam. You can't keep only looking at 1v1 situations because that's almost never going to be the case.. Greninja won't be staying in on Ferrothorn, especially if it has amazing teammates like Mega Sableye or Mandibuzz that hard counter it. Steel may have a lot of walls but they all lose to Greninja apart from Empoleon which has pitiful usage.
Finishing this part of the analisys I used to be on the ban greninja and send it to hell but now after actually reading some stats and making some calcs I realise that is not actually broken, is just like charX and some other (currently I don't remember but that's the point) mons that you should prepare for, if you're psychic then GG (IMO is kind of bound to happen if vs dark, regular and good dark now destroy psy without mega-gallade or is an uphill battle like it should be) and if smogon can't ban protean I say maybe a type ban on dark because is the type that gives it more support like all falls down said mandi and sableye are really good support and maybe suspect it on water... that's all, tomorrow I'll post the damage on the other types so ppl can read if the damage is too big or no ( I'm currently single so F my life)
I don't agree at all. Psychic has a great chance vs Dark if they use Mega Gardevoir. Gardevoir OHKOs every single Pokemon on a dark team besides bulky Tyranitar which is easily 2HKO'd. Using Gardevoir intelligently and saving it to hit and run can easily win the Psychic player the game. Saying that Dark autowins to Psychic so keep Greninja is a terrible argument. I can see a type ban but in reality there's no point because its obviously broken on both types.
Since all of you ignored my post lemme post this again:
Greninja: This thing has a base speed of 122, making it outspeed 90% of the meta and hitting extremely hard with STAB Protean and also being a mixed attacker and destroying both walls regarding its moveset. However, it has shitty bulk and can easily be killed. The question is: Will you survive to kill it? Grass just lost Skymin so only Breloom and Ferrothorn can kill it REGARDING what it runs . (Shadow Sneak and HP Fire respectively) and the frog steamrolls the entire team afterwards. Flying has nothing for Greninja. Of course you're gonna say Articuno and SpD Gyarados, but Greninja has teammates which can easily destroy them (Tyranittar, Bisharp oh dark and Lanturn, Azumarill, and some ninja's running Rock Slide as well). What can dark beat with greninja? Fighting teams? You have a Mandibuzz and Sableye. I know Keldeo can destroy dark with Sub CM Set but it loses to Sub CM Keldeo even with Greninja. Flying? Tyranittar destroys. Bisharp destroys. Crawdaunt destroys. Weavile destroys, 'Nuff said about that. Also with supports of Tyranittar, Mandibuzz, Sableye, Umbreon Greninja makes a solid strong core that is really hard to break down. As for Greninja replacement you have choices to Zoroark, a very underrated pokemon with good coverage and can kill fightings with Esensory as well as Illusion fucks people up, Crawdaunt that can 2hko the meta with 1 SD, and Weavile, a great attacker with insane speed which is an extremely strong banded/Orbed abuser. Now let's go with Water. It has supports of Swampert/Slowbro/Alomomola, Empoleon/Tentacruel, Sap Sipper Azumarill, Lanturn it gives bulky water what it needs: A stallbreaker. It can get a safe switch and kill something and switch out to a wall easily making it extremely hard to destroy. Also, what can Greninja beat that water teams without Greninja can't? Nothing. You're just losing a really strong attacker, but water has Keldeo, Gyarados, Azumarill and so many good walls that it can switch safely into.
TL;DR Ban Greninja it's already ubers anyways, the support it gets are too hard to break down, the coverage is insane and with more physical movepool it has fewer walls ESPECIALLY in monotype.
Sableye: No skill CM set up gg everything. On the plus side there are 3 ways in beating this thing: 1. Fire Type Physical Attacker. 2. Don't let it set up. 3. Hax to win.
In Dark, it does have support but it gets more support on Ghost. Chandelure eats up Fire moves. Aegislash eats up Fairy moves. Jellicent eats up them Specs Hydro Pump. It's really hard to kill it with Dragons, Fighting, Dark. But it gives Ghost an answer to Hazards which it lacked.
Wait wait wait, I want to go back to Kyurem-W please. I shall speak on behalf of other who aren't in support of the ban. I'm very disappointed in how the way this turned out for Monotype Ice. Overall I'm against this Kyurem-W ban considering I have numerous experiences with ice along with the Pokemon. I don't think its deserved to be banned at all. You're banning a pokemon that gave ice mono an actual chance to stand up against a type such as Steel for example. You didn't help the mono, rather you hurt them instead.Oh you have Mamoswine and Kyurem-B." What the heck are they going to do against steel when they're such an OP type. Also Ferrothorn can just check both of them. Ice mono has always been such an underdog and one of the most shitty types in the metagame. I was even told that I can just simply make a team to try and play around the other types. It's not as easy as others think. It's very hard trying to adapt mono ice to counter its weaknesses when they're so common such as steel, fire, and fighting. As all three of them shit on ice.
Yes, Ice is a tough type to use, and yes, Ice vs Steel is a tough match-up. Kyurem-white did give ice a chance to beat steel (cough more than a chance, once Heatran is weakened Fusion Flare OHKO's the whole team..) But like Nani said and what the general consensus is that it's not possible to make every type equal. Kyurem-white gave Ice a chance to beat Steel but by doing that we also brought a plague to the tier that exemplified match-up based games where playing on the ladder was complete luck on what type you would get. Types like Grass, Flying, and Poison literally had no answers for Kyurem-W. Adding a Pokemon that is so inherently broken to a type in an attempt to boost its viability was a step in the wrong direction from the very beginning; it was very controversial adding Kyurem and Skymin into monotype, and frankly I'm surprised it took us this long to ban them. Kyurem has no place in monotype; there are other ways to improve the metagame, and unbanning insanely powerful ubers isn't the right way.
Instead of trying to unban Kyurem to balance the matchup, how about thinking about things like banning Mega Metagross? Generally banning is more effective than unbanning.
I know that the banning on Talonflame doesn't really affect fire like a side a month ago but this one takes the cake with Kyurem-W gone.
They'll continue being annihilated by hazards (don't say Articuno can help cause its one of more inferior mons cause of its flying / ice typing despite having Defog to help), three of the main types will continue to destroy them.
...What? You completely lost me here. You want to have mono-ice typing Pokemon? That's an awful typing. Dual typings are a blessing for every monotype to cover weaknesses. Ice needs dual typed Pokemon.
Yes, Ice is a tough type to use, and yes, Ice vs Steel is a tough match-up. Kyurem-white did give ice a chance to beat steel (cough more than a chance, once Heatran is weakened Fusion Flare OHKO's the whole team..) But like Nani said and what the general consensus is that it's not possible to make every type equal. Kyurem-white gave Ice a chance to beat Steel but by doing that we also brought a plague to the tier that exemplified match-up based games where playing on the ladder was complete luck on what type you would get. Types like Grass, Flying, and Poison literally had no answers for Kyurem-W. Adding a Pokemon that is so inherently broken to a type in an attempt to boost its viability was a step in the wrong direction from the very beginning; it was very controversial adding Kyurem and Skymin into monotype, and frankly I'm surprised it took us this long to ban them. Kyurem has no place in monotype; there are other ways to improve the metagame, and unbanning insanely powerful ubers isn't the right way.
Instead of trying to unban Kyurem to balance the matchup, how about thinking about things like banning Mega Metagross? Generally banning is more effective than unbanning.
Uh, what? How is this relevant?
You have Avalugg as well.
...What? You completely lost me here. You want to have mono-ice typing Pokemon? That's an awful typing. Dual typings are a blessing for every monotype to cover weaknesses. Ice needs dual typed Pokemon.
If ubers have no place for the metagame then they should have been banned a long time ago which doesn't make sense. You already know what they're capable of. Take Skymin's Serene Grace hax for example.
Cute. Considering for the most part we have as much input as the community when it comes to talking about bans, and suspects. He takes his time so that he knows what he is doing for the tier is right. What is right you may ask he looks at the overall majority opinion and what most people were bringing to light at that time which was Kyuerm-White, Shaymin-Sky, and Galladite. Nani could have easily just said ban everything, but no he laddered on alts as well to check if the Pokemon that people were asking for a ban were actually broken, and he looked at feedback from the community.
Cute. Considering for the most part we have as much input as the community when it comes to talking about bans, and suspects. He takes his time so that he knows what he is doing for the tier is right. What is right you may ask he looks at the overall majority opinion and what most people were bringing to light at that time which was Kyuerm-White, Shaymin-Sky, and Galladite. Nani could have easily just said ban everything, but no he laddered on alts as well to check if the Pokemon that people were asking for a ban were actually broken, and he looked at feedback from the community.
Ok, so the summary answer to all the posts. POKEMON WILL NEVER BE BALANCED! ITS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A TRULY COMPETITIVE GAME! ITS TOO MANY VARIABLES THAT COME INTO PLAY! A friend by the name of Zoda (yes I give you thumbs up for once :P) made me realize something I had forgotten when I became good....and that was to have fun. YOUR FORGETTING THAT THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR FUN!! ITS AN OTHER META FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!! This aint VGC, Smash bros melee, or Street fighter!! Your not making any money!! Think about this....Your ladder rank in mono literally means shit. I dont see you signing with agencies for it!!
TL;DR: Stop bashing each other and complaining!! Your taking this too serious!
i is nub obv but i gots dis
Also i did this on pastebin first so dont h8
Ok
this is my first post yada,yada dont h8 m8 (btw i rant, rof)
So my mono career first started in pokebank ou era. Oh my wot a mess. luc and talon and steel cores like the yunguns have never seen. I mainly used water and grass and i was a complete nub. after dat dumb stuff was banned mono was cool. i had been using maw in ou cos maw is bae and i could barely remember the mono times. then i turn my cpu on one day, load up showdown and click on ou room and booom. Bae is banned.... NU. so then i cry and watch soap operas with ice cream and all that jazz. I decide hmm mono looks interesting lets click on da box. Pop i open up mono and i strike up a conversation with quas, pika and other m8s. i am not a quiet person, you prolly know dis. i make a fairy team and imma like omg maw is useable. so i proceed to enter my first mono tour with an ugly ass fairy team with 3 attacks + bell sylv, cosmic clef, sap sipper bd azu and sd maw. i made it to semis in an OT with a buttocks team to only be haxed to shit by arifeen. #6turnpara #Ripsylv
Anyway i started making a name for myself (Or so i thought lol) i made it fairly high on the ladder and started to learn sum stuff.
Than oras hype starts building up to shit. megas are announced, Rayquaza is broken to shit, ubers is gonna be ripped apart. In my very humble opinion the concluding 2 months of xy was prime ou,nu, mono time.
by the time oras drops everyone knows the deal, Ray is beyond broken, salamence is broken, some are good and some are audino (Rof)
I kinda played ou mainly to get used to the nu megas. (Nu,Ru were the most laughable type of cancer) some types got some buffs like rock getting diancie, Ghost getting sab, steel getting gross and fighting getting gallade. Then after the first few weeks its the funnest part of the whole year, When the drama unfolds, peoples hearts are broken and ultimately many pokemon get banned.
So on the mono table it seems like all new megas seem pretty balanced with dark + sab seeming to be the only questionable one. So i wait for everyone to settle in and i go back to ou checking on mono rarely. (im having exams at this point)
Then i load up mono and get a smack to da face. Its an ot (rof you thought it was maw's ban) i signup cos wynaut and then i get semis with pika and prosaic getting 2nd and 1st respectively. Then we start up a late night conversation about how mega bro is quite powerful. i agree and put my opinion forth but dont really say anything.
Oct 12 2013-Jan 4th 2015 Rip Mega bae.
Ok story time is over. i Have looked all over the pages about maw bans. first off id like to point out that i KNOW i am the minority. its pretty obv, im not dumb. So over all the pages i realized that many of the members are complaining about +2 maw cleaning entire teams. Ok lets start:
My Theorytical team in these matchups are mega maw/mega diancie, Cm clef/SR clef, BD azu/Band Azu, Tr sr diancie/cleric sylv, Screens Klefki and scarf toge.
Here we go.
Ok so they lead wit gal usually and get up dat web or twave your lead than web either way imma lead with toge to get dat hax dow :] Also i never understood getting webs vs fairy cos toge is immune to web and azu and maw have priority and nothing else cares about the web.
252 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Galvantula: 175-207 (62.2 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Armaldo: 139-165 (39.2 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Armaldo: 72-85 (20.3 - 24%) -- guaranteed 5HKO (it does have a counter)
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Togekiss: 252-296 (81 - 95.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Genesect Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Togekiss: 258-306 (82.9 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Genesect: 172-203 (60.7 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Genesect Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 102-121 (33.6 - 39.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO Gene can alos run fire coverage
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 100-118 (33 - 38.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 148-175 (48.8 - 57.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Bug is a respectable type And they have threats including but not limited to Volca, Mega sciz, Mega pinsir, Genesect. When i see players complain that maw sweeped their bug team than see that they sacced their sciz or forretress early game i just facepalm. Maw really only harms bug late game with intimidate + priority. Bug vs fairy With maw is around 45-55 in favor of fairy imo but the mon that puts in the most work is honestly togekiss. (azu can sweep if forret/Sciz is weakened and gene is killed but azu is hard pressed to find somthing to setup on)remember fairy resists bug so it shud be a good matchup.
(rof) the counters are strong for diancie on bug. hp fire + diamond storm cleans house i wont lie. i just keep klefki healthy to tank bps and end up sacing sylv more than often. Imo with diancie its around 42-58% in favor of fairy. togekiss + diancie simply does to much for bug to handle without a reliable spdef wall
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Volcarona: 700-828 (187.6 - 221.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 308-364 (109.6 - 129.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 444-528 (184.2 - 219%) -- guaranteed OHKO
44+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 388-460 (160.9 - 190.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Forretress: 300-356 (84.9 - 100.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO(Sturdy + red card does nothing)
252 SpA Mega Diancie Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Genesect: 320-380 (113 - 134.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Armaldo: 324-384 (91.5 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
Lol maw is ass vs dark. it literally does the least out of all teammembers, always. it can spam play rough but really gets 2hkoed by most on dark
252 SpA Hydreigon Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mega Mawile: 242-286 (79.8 - 94.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mega Mawile: 346-408 (114.1 - 134.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 154-182 (50.8 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 214-254 (70.6 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mega Mawile: 207-243 (68.3 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mega Mawile: 226-268 (74.5 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 149-177 (49.1 - 58.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Btw unburned maw ohkoes all of those mons. IMo vs dark its not maw doing much besides getting indimidates so that teammates can do more work, Primarily tr diancie and clef
vs dark with diancie
Ok diancie helps here too i wont post calcs cos i diancie ohkoes everything with moon blast but select few
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Bisharp: 162-192 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 100+ SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 174-206 (43 - 50.9%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock i think degs ttar looks like this spread idk tho
On to dragon. So imma put this out there cos everyone knows it. Every dragon team has 2-4 choiced mons chances are most are going to have a steel or poison move. dragon vs fairy is probably the most even matchup for any team weak to something besides elec vs water. Dragons dont need calcs cos iron head murders everything and tr diancie is really the only that dragons cant handle
intimidate maw is useful and diancie dies to every eq and iron head. this type is a skip and doesnt really showcase how "insanely op" maw is. klefki twaving is a good option and dual screens really helps.
fire is next and as some of my m8s have described fire can handle fairy quite well
Fire vs fairy with maw. so char-y is hurting every on fairy. nothing on fire does bad vs fairy. Maw if it has fire fang + iron head + play rough or something like that isnt doing shit to fire cos it dies to everything that isnt going to just wisp it
Fire definitely has the upper hand even tho azu at +6 clean sweeps with rocks up All fire has to do is not let azu come in on infernape, entei or torkoal (possibly tran but ive seen lots that run wisp, otherwise theyre scarfed and are going to hit hard)
(wow chill alphabetical order makes diancie out to be better in this post isnt this for mega maw unban?) Diancie Rock stab + epower. that is so mean, plus you cant burn it, it outspeeds most of fire and it throws rocks right back at them. the point is to keep azu alive as last resort for banded aj to clean and to just lead diancie
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 154-183 (47.6 - 56.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 154-183 (39.8 - 47.4%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 436-516 (134.9 - 159.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Torkoal: 306-362 (88.9 - 105.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Torkoal: 206-244 (59.8 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Torkoal: 186-222 (54 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Torkoal: 242-288 (70.3 - 83.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arcanine: 276-326 (72 - 85.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
This is definitely the biggest one. simply bcos more people use flying and maw is a huge threat to flying.(even tho diancie does more work) so maw needs to get to +2 vs flying and then it also needs skarm weakened. I was looking about replays and looking on threads and i found something happened quite often. Skarm would always be weakened cause of the switch in to azu and diancie and sr accumulating and than maw can just kill it. i noticed this several times with people complaining about how good maw is in many times. monotype is incredibly dependable on team preveiw. it really comes down to that, ex fight vs ice good luck buddy, ss water vs fire rof. so if youre running flying and you see that the opponent has a fairy team with mega maw you dont just think. hmm skarm puts in a lot of work lets just bring it in on every physical move. NO GAWDAMNIT you keep it so you can wall maw and whirlwind azu. you dont waste that shit by just bringing it in constantly. Play smart.flying also considers maw to be a huge threat cos it can setup up an sd on alot.
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 152-180 (45.5 - 53.8%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 304-358 (91 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Zapdos: 241-285 (62.7 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
68 SpA Zapdos Heat Wave vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 182-216 (60 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
sucker at +2 kills everything after rocks. so flying types listen up. burn that nigga bae with willo, setup up spikes whirlwind out and generally weaken it b4 you bring in a skarm with only 50%.
Fairy vs flying is probably in flyings favor by around 10% because its easy to just defog and roost with zapdos and skarm and just let fairys giveup
(rof alphabetical is hacked)
imma just put calcs here cos diancie + sylveon + clef are the only things that do anything to flying
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 300-354 (83.5 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Diancie Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 204-242 (61 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Zapdos: 284-336 (73.9 - 87.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 372-440 (96.8 - 114.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Landorus: 243-286 (76.1 - 89.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 219-258 (68.6 - 80.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
vs ghost is entirely dependant on how smart the fairy player is. if maw is burnt it does nothing. put if it setups an sd vs aegi or something ghost loses.
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 464-546 (143.2 - 168.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 218-257 (71.9 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 172-203 (56.7 - 66.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Note aegi has lo in these calcs
+4 252+ Atk Huge Power burned Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 513-604 (168.7 - 198.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jellicent: 744-876 (184.1 - 216.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Golurk: 792-932 (207.3 - 243.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
however when burnt the dmg is severely reduced. it can still hit but not as hard. being burnt also puts a timer on it meaning it will probably only last 1-2 more turns.
This is one of the matchups that i now hate without maw. Diancie still hits hard but gengar kinda just sludge waves to victory, providing klefki isnt dead even tho klefki is really only setting screens in this matchup cos its likely to be burnt early on
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 246-291 (94.9 - 112.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Diancie: 208-246 (86.3 - 102%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
gengar wins speed tie btw.
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jellicent: 127-150 (31.4 - 37.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 162-192 (50 - 59.2%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 36 SpD Sylveon: 312-369 (79.1 - 93.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Klefki through Light Screen: 96-113 (30.1 - 35.5%) -- 92.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Klefki: 191-226 (60 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Klefki Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 106-126 (40.9 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
im going to be completely honest. ive played electric once with fairy and i killed rotom turn 4 and setup an sd with maw and won
i can imagine that not many of you want to see the calcs but here are a couple
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 196-232 (64.6 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Magnezone: 291-343 (103.5 - 122%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Zapdos: 286-337 (74.4 - 87.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dedenne: 149-175 (44 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock THE ONLY TRUE COUNTER BESIDES ROTOM
Umm error never seen, played or heard of
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 171-202 (56.4 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Diancie: 191-226 (79.2 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 434-512 (145.1 - 171.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
see flying for zapdos calcs
If you have maw with iron head + fire fang that can really hurt the opposing fairy squad.but really take it or leave it this matchup is almost entirely teambased, skill based.
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 204-241 (67.3 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Klefki: 189-223 (59.6 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 334-394 (91.7 - 108.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 434-512 (110.1 - 129.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Clefable Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 130-154 (42.9 - 50.8%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO
seeing fairy now is rare. seeing two fairy teams at once is unheard of.
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 198-234 (50.2 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 36 SpD Sylveon: 141-166 (35.7 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Sylveon: 159-187 (40.3 - 47.4%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Klefki: 258-304 (81.1 - 95.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Maw loves sucker punch. thats why its so good. vs a type that resists it isnt the most prime condition. having intimidate + se Stab tho
honestly toge and azu bring the heat in this matchup. with your biggest threat probably being infernape or hawlucha fairy has the definite upper hand vs fighting
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 280-330 (92.4 - 108.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Terrakion Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 180-212 (59.4 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 234-276 (77.2 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Infernape Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 278-330 (91.7 - 108.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Overheat vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 494-585 (163 - 193%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Diancie outspeeds the base 108s and ohkoes everything with moonblast diancie definitely does better than maw in this matchup.
252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Infernape: 338-398 (115.3 - 135.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Terrakion: 396-468 (122.6 - 144.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 396-468 (122.6 - 144.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Breloom: 548-648 (209.9 - 248.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 91-108 (37.7 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 8 HP / 0 SpD Hawlucha: 528-624 (176.5 - 208.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 169-201 (70.1 - 83.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 252-296 (71.7 - 84.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 132-156 (54.7 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 70-84 (29 - 34.8%) -- 7.6% chance to 3HKO
Half down yay :] gonna post other half next couple of days + reasons i think gallade is dumb being banned on psychic.
Sincerely,
iMawile, ChillingtilUnban, Career ended
EDIT: TL;DR why maw isnt that strong against half types And deserves to be Suspected/unbanned WITHOUT Intimidate in base form. intimidate + Stone = nono
i is nub obv but i gots dis
Also i did this on pastebin first so dont h8
Ok
this is my first post yada,yada dont h8 m8 (btw i rant, rof)
So my mono career first started in pokebank ou era. Oh my wot a mess. luc and talon and steel cores like the yunguns have never seen. I mainly used water and grass and i was a complete nub. after dat dumb stuff was banned mono was cool. i had been using maw in ou cos maw is bae and i could barely remember the mono times. then i turn my cpu on one day, load up showdown and click on ou room and booom. Bae is banned.... NU. so then i cry and watch soap operas with ice cream and all that jazz. I decide hmm mono looks interesting lets click on da box. Pop i open up mono and i strike up a conversation with quas, pika and other m8s. i am not a quiet person, you prolly know dis. i make a fairy team and imma like omg maw is useable. so i proceed to enter my first mono tour with an ugly ass fairy team with 3 attacks + bell sylv, cosmic clef, sap sipper bd azu and sd maw. i made it to semis in an OT with a buttocks team to only be haxed to shit by arifeen. #6turnpara #Ripsylv
Anyway i started making a name for myself (Or so i thought lol) i made it fairly high on the ladder and started to learn sum stuff.
Than oras hype starts building up to shit. megas are announced, Rayquaza is broken to shit, ubers is gonna be ripped apart. In my very humble opinion the concluding 2 months of xy was prime ou,nu, mono time.
by the time oras drops everyone knows the deal, Ray is beyond broken, salamence is broken, some are good and some are audino (Rof)
I kinda played ou mainly to get used to the nu megas. (Nu,Ru were the most laughable type of cancer) some types got some buffs like rock getting diancie, Ghost getting sab, steel getting gross and fighting getting gallade. Then after the first few weeks its the funnest part of the whole year, When the drama unfolds, peoples hearts are broken and ultimately many pokemon get banned.
So on the mono table it seems like all new megas seem pretty balanced with dark + sab seeming to be the only questionable one. So i wait for everyone to settle in and i go back to ou checking on mono rarely. (im having exams at this point)
Then i load up mono and get a smack to da face. Its an ot (rof you thought it was maw's ban) i signup cos wynaut and then i get semis with pika and prosaic getting 2nd and 1st respectively. Then we start up a late night conversation about how mega bro is quite powerful. i agree and put my opinion forth but dont really say anything.
Oct 12 2013-Jan 4th 2015 Rip Mega bae.
Ok story time is over. i Have looked all over the pages about maw bans. first off id like to point out that i KNOW i am the minority. its pretty obv, im not dumb. So over all the pages i realized that many of the members are complaining about +2 maw cleaning entire teams. Ok lets start:
My Theorytical team in these matchups are mega maw/mega diancie, Cm clef/SR clef, BD azu/Band Azu, Tr sr diancie/cleric sylv, Screens Klefki and scarf toge.
Here we go.
Vs Bug (With maw) Ok so they lead wit gal usually and get up dat web or twave your lead than web either way imma lead with toge to get dat hax dow :] Also i never understood getting webs vs fairy cos toge is immune to web and azu and maw have priority and nothing else cares about the web.
252 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Galvantula: 175-207 (62.2 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Armaldo: 139-165 (39.2 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Armaldo: 72-85 (20.3 - 24%) -- guaranteed 5HKO (it does have a counter)
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Togekiss: 252-296 (81 - 95.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Genesect Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Togekiss: 258-306 (82.9 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Genesect: 172-203 (60.7 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Genesect Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 102-121 (33.6 - 39.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO Gene can alos run fire coverage
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 100-118 (33 - 38.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 148-175 (48.8 - 57.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Bug is a respectable type And they have threats including but not limited to Volca, Mega sciz, Mega pinsir, Genesect. When i see players complain that maw sweeped their bug team than see that they sacced their sciz or forretress early game i just facepalm. Maw really only harms bug late game with intimidate + priority. Bug vs fairy With maw is around 45-55 in favor of fairy imo but the mon that puts in the most work is honestly togekiss. (azu can sweep if forret/Sciz is weakened and gene is killed but azu is hard pressed to find somthing to setup on)remember fairy resists bug so it shud be a good matchup.
Vs bug with diancie (rof) the counters are strong for diancie on bug. hp fire + diamond storm cleans house i wont lie. i just keep klefki healthy to tank bps and end up sacing sylv more than often. Imo with diancie its around 42-58% in favor of fairy. togekiss + diancie simply does to much for bug to handle without a reliable spdef wall
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Volcarona: 700-828 (187.6 - 221.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 308-364 (109.6 - 129.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 444-528 (184.2 - 219%) -- guaranteed OHKO
44+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 388-460 (160.9 - 190.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Forretress: 300-356 (84.9 - 100.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO(Sturdy + red card does nothing)
252 SpA Mega Diancie Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Genesect: 320-380 (113 - 134.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Armaldo: 324-384 (91.5 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
Vs dark with maw Lol maw is ass vs dark. it literally does the least out of all teammembers, always. it can spam play rough but really gets 2hkoed by most on dark
252 SpA Hydreigon Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mega Mawile: 242-286 (79.8 - 94.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mega Mawile: 346-408 (114.1 - 134.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 154-182 (50.8 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 214-254 (70.6 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mega Mawile: 207-243 (68.3 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mega Mawile: 226-268 (74.5 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 149-177 (49.1 - 58.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Btw unburned maw ohkoes all of those mons. IMo vs dark its not maw doing much besides getting indimidates so that teammates can do more work, Primarily tr diancie and clef
vs dark with diancie
Ok diancie helps here too i wont post calcs cos i diancie ohkoes everything with moon blast but select few
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Bisharp: 162-192 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 100+ SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 174-206 (43 - 50.9%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock i think degs ttar looks like this spread idk tho
On to dragon. So imma put this out there cos everyone knows it. Every dragon team has 2-4 choiced mons chances are most are going to have a steel or poison move. dragon vs fairy is probably the most even matchup for any team weak to something besides elec vs water. Dragons dont need calcs cos iron head murders everything and tr diancie is really the only that dragons cant handle
intimidate maw is useful and diancie dies to every eq and iron head. this type is a skip and doesnt really showcase how "insanely op" maw is. klefki twaving is a good option and dual screens really helps.
fire is next and as some of my m8s have described fire can handle fairy quite well
Fire vs fairy with maw. so char-y is hurting every on fairy. nothing on fire does bad vs fairy. Maw if it has fire fang + iron head + play rough or something like that isnt doing shit to fire cos it dies to everything that isnt going to just wisp it
Fire definitely has the upper hand even tho azu at +6 clean sweeps with rocks up All fire has to do is not let azu come in on infernape, entei or torkoal (possibly tran but ive seen lots that run wisp, otherwise theyre scarfed and are going to hit hard)
Fire vs Fairy with diancie (wow chill alphabetical order makes diancie out to be better in this post isnt this for mega maw unban?) Diancie Rock stab + epower. that is so mean, plus you cant burn it, it outspeeds most of fire and it throws rocks right back at them. the point is to keep azu alive as last resort for banded aj to clean and to just lead diancie
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 154-183 (47.6 - 56.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 154-183 (39.8 - 47.4%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 436-516 (134.9 - 159.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Torkoal: 306-362 (88.9 - 105.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Torkoal: 206-244 (59.8 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Torkoal: 186-222 (54 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Torkoal: 242-288 (70.3 - 83.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arcanine: 276-326 (72 - 85.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
vs Flying With maw
This is definitely the biggest one. simply bcos more people use flying and maw is a huge threat to flying.(even tho diancie does more work) so maw needs to get to +2 vs flying and then it also needs skarm weakened. I was looking about replays and looking on threads and i found something happened quite often. Skarm would always be weakened cause of the switch in to azu and diancie and sr accumulating and than maw can just kill it. i noticed this several times with people complaining about how good maw is in many times. monotype is incredibly dependable on team preveiw. it really comes down to that, ex fight vs ice good luck buddy, ss water vs fire rof. so if youre running flying and you see that the opponent has a fairy team with mega maw you dont just think. hmm skarm puts in a lot of work lets just bring it in on every physical move. NO GAWDAMNIT you keep it so you can wall maw and whirlwind azu. you dont waste that shit by just bringing it in constantly. Play smart.flying also considers maw to be a huge threat cos it can setup up an sd on alot.
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 152-180 (45.5 - 53.8%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 304-358 (91 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Zapdos: 241-285 (62.7 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
68 SpA Zapdos Heat Wave vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 182-216 (60 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
sucker at +2 kills everything after rocks. so flying types listen up. burn that nigga bae with willo, setup up spikes whirlwind out and generally weaken it b4 you bring in a skarm with only 50%.
Fairy vs flying is probably in flyings favor by around 10% because its easy to just defog and roost with zapdos and skarm and just let fairys giveup
Vs flying with diancie (rof alphabetical is hacked)
imma just put calcs here cos diancie + sylveon + clef are the only things that do anything to flying
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 300-354 (83.5 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Diancie Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 204-242 (61 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Zapdos: 284-336 (73.9 - 87.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 372-440 (96.8 - 114.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Landorus: 243-286 (76.1 - 89.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 219-258 (68.6 - 80.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Alright vs ghost now + maw
vs ghost is entirely dependant on how smart the fairy player is. if maw is burnt it does nothing. put if it setups an sd vs aegi or something ghost loses.
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 464-546 (143.2 - 168.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 218-257 (71.9 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 172-203 (56.7 - 66.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Note aegi has lo in these calcs
+4 252+ Atk Huge Power burned Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 513-604 (168.7 - 198.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jellicent: 744-876 (184.1 - 216.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Golurk: 792-932 (207.3 - 243.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
however when burnt the dmg is severely reduced. it can still hit but not as hard. being burnt also puts a timer on it meaning it will probably only last 1-2 more turns.
fairy (diancie) vs ghost
This is one of the matchups that i now hate without maw. Diancie still hits hard but gengar kinda just sludge waves to victory, providing klefki isnt dead even tho klefki is really only setting screens in this matchup cos its likely to be burnt early on
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 246-291 (94.9 - 112.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Diancie: 208-246 (86.3 - 102%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
gengar wins speed tie btw.
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jellicent: 127-150 (31.4 - 37.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 162-192 (50 - 59.2%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 36 SpD Sylveon: 312-369 (79.1 - 93.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Klefki through Light Screen: 96-113 (30.1 - 35.5%) -- 92.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Klefki: 191-226 (60 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Klefki Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 106-126 (40.9 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
vs electric with maw
im going to be completely honest. ive played electric once with fairy and i killed rotom turn 4 and setup an sd with maw and won
i can imagine that not many of you want to see the calcs but here are a couple
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 196-232 (64.6 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Magnezone: 291-343 (103.5 - 122%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Zapdos: 286-337 (74.4 - 87.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dedenne: 149-175 (44 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock THE ONLY TRUE COUNTER BESIDES ROTOM
Vs electric with diancie
Umm error never seen, played or heard of
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 171-202 (56.4 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Diancie: 191-226 (79.2 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 434-512 (145.1 - 171.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
see flying for zapdos calcs
Aight the next is mirror match.
If you have maw with iron head + fire fang that can really hurt the opposing fairy squad.but really take it or leave it this matchup is almost entirely teambased, skill based.
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 204-241 (67.3 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Klefki: 189-223 (59.6 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 334-394 (91.7 - 108.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 434-512 (110.1 - 129.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Clefable Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 130-154 (42.9 - 50.8%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO
seeing fairy now is rare. seeing two fairy teams at once is unheard of.
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 198-234 (50.2 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 36 SpD Sylveon: 141-166 (35.7 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Sylveon: 159-187 (40.3 - 47.4%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Klefki: 258-304 (81.1 - 95.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Vs fighting with maw.
Maw loves sucker punch. thats why its so good. vs a type that resists it isnt the most prime condition. having intimidate + se Stab tho
honestly toge and azu bring the heat in this matchup. with your biggest threat probably being infernape or hawlucha fairy has the definite upper hand vs fighting
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 280-330 (92.4 - 108.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Terrakion Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 180-212 (59.4 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 234-276 (77.2 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Infernape Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 278-330 (91.7 - 108.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Overheat vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 494-585 (163 - 193%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Vs fighting with diancie
Diancie outspeeds the base 108s and ohkoes everything with moonblast diancie definitely does better than maw in this matchup.
252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Infernape: 338-398 (115.3 - 135.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Terrakion: 396-468 (122.6 - 144.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 396-468 (122.6 - 144.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Breloom: 548-648 (209.9 - 248.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 91-108 (37.7 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 8 HP / 0 SpD Hawlucha: 528-624 (176.5 - 208.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 169-201 (70.1 - 83.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 252-296 (71.7 - 84.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 132-156 (54.7 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 70-84 (29 - 34.8%) -- 7.6% chance to 3HKO
Half down yay :] gonna post other half next couple of days + reasons i think gallade is dumb being banned on psychic.
i is nub obv but i gots dis
Also i did this on pastebin first so dont h8
Ok
this is my first post yada,yada dont h8 m8 (btw i rant, rof)
So my mono career first started in pokebank ou era. Oh my wot a mess. luc and talon and steel cores like the yunguns have never seen. I mainly used water and grass and i was a complete nub. after dat dumb stuff was banned mono was cool. i had been using maw in ou cos maw is bae and i could barely remember the mono times. then i turn my cpu on one day, load up showdown and click on ou room and booom. Bae is banned.... NU. so then i cry and watch soap operas with ice cream and all that jazz. I decide hmm mono looks interesting lets click on da box. Pop i open up mono and i strike up a conversation with quas, pika and other m8s. i am not a quiet person, you prolly know dis. i make a fairy team and imma like omg maw is useable. so i proceed to enter my first mono tour with an ugly ass fairy team with 3 attacks + bell sylv, cosmic clef, sap sipper bd azu and sd maw. i made it to semis in an OT with a buttocks team to only be haxed to shit by arifeen. #6turnpara #Ripsylv
Anyway i started making a name for myself (Or so i thought lol) i made it fairly high on the ladder and started to learn sum stuff.
Than oras hype starts building up to shit. megas are announced, Rayquaza is broken to shit, ubers is gonna be ripped apart. In my very humble opinion the concluding 2 months of xy was prime ou,nu, mono time.
by the time oras drops everyone knows the deal, Ray is beyond broken, salamence is broken, some are good and some are audino (Rof)
I kinda played ou mainly to get used to the nu megas. (Nu,Ru were the most laughable type of cancer) some types got some buffs like rock getting diancie, Ghost getting sab, steel getting gross and fighting getting gallade. Then after the first few weeks its the funnest part of the whole year, When the drama unfolds, peoples hearts are broken and ultimately many pokemon get banned.
So on the mono table it seems like all new megas seem pretty balanced with dark + sab seeming to be the only questionable one. So i wait for everyone to settle in and i go back to ou checking on mono rarely. (im having exams at this point)
Then i load up mono and get a smack to da face. Its an ot (rof you thought it was maw's ban) i signup cos wynaut and then i get semis with pika and prosaic getting 2nd and 1st respectively. Then we start up a late night conversation about how mega bro is quite powerful. i agree and put my opinion forth but dont really say anything.
Oct 12 2013-Jan 4th 2015 Rip Mega bae.
Ok story time is over. i Have looked all over the pages about maw bans. first off id like to point out that i KNOW i am the minority. its pretty obv, im not dumb. So over all the pages i realized that many of the members are complaining about +2 maw cleaning entire teams. Ok lets start:
My Theorytical team in these matchups are mega maw/mega diancie, Cm clef/SR clef, BD azu/Band Azu, Tr sr diancie/cleric sylv, Screens Klefki and scarf toge.
Here we go.
Vs Bug (With maw) Ok so they lead wit gal usually and get up dat web or twave your lead than web either way imma lead with toge to get dat hax dow :] Also i never understood getting webs vs fairy cos toge is immune to web and azu and maw have priority and nothing else cares about the web.
252 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Galvantula: 175-207 (62.2 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Armaldo: 139-165 (39.2 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Armaldo: 72-85 (20.3 - 24%) -- guaranteed 5HKO (it does have a counter)
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Togekiss: 252-296 (81 - 95.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Genesect Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Togekiss: 258-306 (82.9 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Genesect: 172-203 (60.7 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Genesect Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 102-121 (33.6 - 39.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO Gene can alos run fire coverage
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 100-118 (33 - 38.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 148-175 (48.8 - 57.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Bug is a respectable type And they have threats including but not limited to Volca, Mega sciz, Mega pinsir, Genesect. When i see players complain that maw sweeped their bug team than see that they sacced their sciz or forretress early game i just facepalm. Maw really only harms bug late game with intimidate + priority. Bug vs fairy With maw is around 45-55 in favor of fairy imo but the mon that puts in the most work is honestly togekiss. (azu can sweep if forret/Sciz is weakened and gene is killed but azu is hard pressed to find somthing to setup on)remember fairy resists bug so it shud be a good matchup.
Vs bug with diancie (rof) the counters are strong for diancie on bug. hp fire + diamond storm cleans house i wont lie. i just keep klefki healthy to tank bps and end up sacing sylv more than often. Imo with diancie its around 42-58% in favor of fairy. togekiss + diancie simply does to much for bug to handle without a reliable spdef wall
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Volcarona: 700-828 (187.6 - 221.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 308-364 (109.6 - 129.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 444-528 (184.2 - 219%) -- guaranteed OHKO
44+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 388-460 (160.9 - 190.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Forretress: 300-356 (84.9 - 100.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO(Sturdy + red card does nothing)
252 SpA Mega Diancie Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Genesect: 320-380 (113 - 134.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Armaldo: 324-384 (91.5 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
Vs dark with maw Lol maw is ass vs dark. it literally does the least out of all teammembers, always. it can spam play rough but really gets 2hkoed by most on dark
252 SpA Hydreigon Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mega Mawile: 242-286 (79.8 - 94.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mega Mawile: 346-408 (114.1 - 134.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 154-182 (50.8 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 214-254 (70.6 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mega Mawile: 207-243 (68.3 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mega Mawile: 226-268 (74.5 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 149-177 (49.1 - 58.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Btw unburned maw ohkoes all of those mons. IMo vs dark its not maw doing much besides getting indimidates so that teammates can do more work, Primarily tr diancie and clef
vs dark with diancie
Ok diancie helps here too i wont post calcs cos i diancie ohkoes everything with moon blast but select few
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Bisharp: 162-192 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 100+ SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 174-206 (43 - 50.9%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock i think degs ttar looks like this spread idk tho
On to dragon. So imma put this out there cos everyone knows it. Every dragon team has 2-4 choiced mons chances are most are going to have a steel or poison move. dragon vs fairy is probably the most even matchup for any team weak to something besides elec vs water. Dragons dont need calcs cos iron head murders everything and tr diancie is really the only that dragons cant handle
intimidate maw is useful and diancie dies to every eq and iron head. this type is a skip and doesnt really showcase how "insanely op" maw is. klefki twaving is a good option and dual screens really helps.
fire is next and as some of my m8s have described fire can handle fairy quite well
Fire vs fairy with maw. so char-y is hurting every on fairy. nothing on fire does bad vs fairy. Maw if it has fire fang + iron head + play rough or something like that isnt doing shit to fire cos it dies to everything that isnt going to just wisp it
Fire definitely has the upper hand even tho azu at +6 clean sweeps with rocks up All fire has to do is not let azu come in on infernape, entei or torkoal (possibly tran but ive seen lots that run wisp, otherwise theyre scarfed and are going to hit hard)
Fire vs Fairy with diancie (wow chill alphabetical order makes diancie out to be better in this post isnt this for mega maw unban?) Diancie Rock stab + epower. that is so mean, plus you cant burn it, it outspeeds most of fire and it throws rocks right back at them. the point is to keep azu alive as last resort for banded aj to clean and to just lead diancie
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 154-183 (47.6 - 56.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 154-183 (39.8 - 47.4%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 436-516 (134.9 - 159.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Torkoal: 306-362 (88.9 - 105.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Torkoal: 206-244 (59.8 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Torkoal: 186-222 (54 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Torkoal: 242-288 (70.3 - 83.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arcanine: 276-326 (72 - 85.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
vs Flying With maw
This is definitely the biggest one. simply bcos more people use flying and maw is a huge threat to flying.(even tho diancie does more work) so maw needs to get to +2 vs flying and then it also needs skarm weakened. I was looking about replays and looking on threads and i found something happened quite often. Skarm would always be weakened cause of the switch in to azu and diancie and sr accumulating and than maw can just kill it. i noticed this several times with people complaining about how good maw is in many times. monotype is incredibly dependable on team preveiw. it really comes down to that, ex fight vs ice good luck buddy, ss water vs fire rof. so if youre running flying and you see that the opponent has a fairy team with mega maw you dont just think. hmm skarm puts in a lot of work lets just bring it in on every physical move. NO GAWDAMNIT you keep it so you can wall maw and whirlwind azu. you dont waste that shit by just bringing it in constantly. Play smart.flying also considers maw to be a huge threat cos it can setup up an sd on alot.
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 152-180 (45.5 - 53.8%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 304-358 (91 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Zapdos: 241-285 (62.7 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
68 SpA Zapdos Heat Wave vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 182-216 (60 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
sucker at +2 kills everything after rocks. so flying types listen up. burn that nigga bae with willo, setup up spikes whirlwind out and generally weaken it b4 you bring in a skarm with only 50%.
Fairy vs flying is probably in flyings favor by around 10% because its easy to just defog and roost with zapdos and skarm and just let fairys giveup
Vs flying with diancie (rof alphabetical is hacked)
imma just put calcs here cos diancie + sylveon + clef are the only things that do anything to flying
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 300-354 (83.5 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Diancie Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 204-242 (61 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Zapdos: 284-336 (73.9 - 87.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 372-440 (96.8 - 114.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Landorus: 243-286 (76.1 - 89.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 219-258 (68.6 - 80.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Alright vs ghost now + maw
vs ghost is entirely dependant on how smart the fairy player is. if maw is burnt it does nothing. put if it setups an sd vs aegi or something ghost loses.
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 464-546 (143.2 - 168.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 218-257 (71.9 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 172-203 (56.7 - 66.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Note aegi has lo in these calcs
+4 252+ Atk Huge Power burned Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 513-604 (168.7 - 198.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jellicent: 744-876 (184.1 - 216.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Golurk: 792-932 (207.3 - 243.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
however when burnt the dmg is severely reduced. it can still hit but not as hard. being burnt also puts a timer on it meaning it will probably only last 1-2 more turns.
fairy (diancie) vs ghost
This is one of the matchups that i now hate without maw. Diancie still hits hard but gengar kinda just sludge waves to victory, providing klefki isnt dead even tho klefki is really only setting screens in this matchup cos its likely to be burnt early on
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 246-291 (94.9 - 112.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Diancie: 208-246 (86.3 - 102%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
gengar wins speed tie btw.
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jellicent: 127-150 (31.4 - 37.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 162-192 (50 - 59.2%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 36 SpD Sylveon: 312-369 (79.1 - 93.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Klefki through Light Screen: 96-113 (30.1 - 35.5%) -- 92.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Klefki: 191-226 (60 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Klefki Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 106-126 (40.9 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
vs electric with maw
im going to be completely honest. ive played electric once with fairy and i killed rotom turn 4 and setup an sd with maw and won
i can imagine that not many of you want to see the calcs but here are a couple
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 196-232 (64.6 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Magnezone: 291-343 (103.5 - 122%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Zapdos: 286-337 (74.4 - 87.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dedenne: 149-175 (44 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock THE ONLY TRUE COUNTER BESIDES ROTOM
Vs electric with diancie
Umm error never seen, played or heard of
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 171-202 (56.4 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Diancie: 191-226 (79.2 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 434-512 (145.1 - 171.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
see flying for zapdos calcs
Aight the next is mirror match.
If you have maw with iron head + fire fang that can really hurt the opposing fairy squad.but really take it or leave it this matchup is almost entirely teambased, skill based.
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 204-241 (67.3 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Klefki: 189-223 (59.6 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 334-394 (91.7 - 108.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 434-512 (110.1 - 129.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Clefable Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 130-154 (42.9 - 50.8%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO
seeing fairy now is rare. seeing two fairy teams at once is unheard of.
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 198-234 (50.2 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 36 SpD Sylveon: 141-166 (35.7 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Sylveon: 159-187 (40.3 - 47.4%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Klefki: 258-304 (81.1 - 95.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Vs fighting with maw.
Maw loves sucker punch. thats why its so good. vs a type that resists it isnt the most prime condition. having intimidate + se Stab tho
honestly toge and azu bring the heat in this matchup. with your biggest threat probably being infernape or hawlucha fairy has the definite upper hand vs fighting
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 280-330 (92.4 - 108.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Terrakion Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 180-212 (59.4 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 234-276 (77.2 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Infernape Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 278-330 (91.7 - 108.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Overheat vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 494-585 (163 - 193%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Vs fighting with diancie
Diancie outspeeds the base 108s and ohkoes everything with moonblast diancie definitely does better than maw in this matchup.
252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Infernape: 338-398 (115.3 - 135.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Terrakion: 396-468 (122.6 - 144.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 396-468 (122.6 - 144.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Breloom: 548-648 (209.9 - 248.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 91-108 (37.7 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 8 HP / 0 SpD Hawlucha: 528-624 (176.5 - 208.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 169-201 (70.1 - 83.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 252-296 (71.7 - 84.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 132-156 (54.7 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 70-84 (29 - 34.8%) -- 7.6% chance to 3HKO
Half down yay :] gonna post other half next couple of days + reasons i think gallade is dumb being banned on psychic.
Sincerely,
iMawile, ChillingtilUnban, Career ended
EDIT: TL;DR why maw isnt that strong against half types And deserves to be Suspected/unbanned WITHOUT Intimidate in base form. intimidate + Stone = nono
Chillingtilnoon I formatted your post with hide tags as a courtesy to the other users. In the future, use the tags when you plan to post a ton of calcs or walls of text so people aren't scrolling for days to get through your post.
i is nub obv but i gots dis
Also i did this on pastebin first so dont h8
Ok
this is my first post yada,yada dont h8 m8 (btw i rant, rof)
So my mono career first started in pokebank ou era. Oh my wot a mess. luc and talon and steel cores like the yunguns have never seen. I mainly used water and grass and i was a complete nub. after dat dumb stuff was banned mono was cool. i had been using maw in ou cos maw is bae and i could barely remember the mono times. then i turn my cpu on one day, load up showdown and click on ou room and booom. Bae is banned.... NU. so then i cry and watch soap operas with ice cream and all that jazz. I decide hmm mono looks interesting lets click on da box. Pop i open up mono and i strike up a conversation with quas, pika and other m8s. i am not a quiet person, you prolly know dis. i make a fairy team and imma like omg maw is useable. so i proceed to enter my first mono tour with an ugly ass fairy team with 3 attacks + bell sylv, cosmic clef, sap sipper bd azu and sd maw. i made it to semis in an OT with a buttocks team to only be haxed to shit by arifeen. #6turnpara #Ripsylv
Anyway i started making a name for myself (Or so i thought lol) i made it fairly high on the ladder and started to learn sum stuff.
Than oras hype starts building up to shit. megas are announced, Rayquaza is broken to shit, ubers is gonna be ripped apart. In my very humble opinion the concluding 2 months of xy was prime ou,nu, mono time.
by the time oras drops everyone knows the deal, Ray is beyond broken, salamence is broken, some are good and some are audino (Rof)
I kinda played ou mainly to get used to the nu megas. (Nu,Ru were the most laughable type of cancer) some types got some buffs like rock getting diancie, Ghost getting sab, steel getting gross and fighting getting gallade. Then after the first few weeks its the funnest part of the whole year, When the drama unfolds, peoples hearts are broken and ultimately many pokemon get banned.
So on the mono table it seems like all new megas seem pretty balanced with dark + sab seeming to be the only questionable one. So i wait for everyone to settle in and i go back to ou checking on mono rarely. (im having exams at this point)
Then i load up mono and get a smack to da face. Its an ot (rof you thought it was maw's ban) i signup cos wynaut and then i get semis with pika and prosaic getting 2nd and 1st respectively. Then we start up a late night conversation about how mega bro is quite powerful. i agree and put my opinion forth but dont really say anything.
Oct 12 2013-Jan 4th 2015 Rip Mega bae.
Ok story time is over. i Have looked all over the pages about maw bans. first off id like to point out that i KNOW i am the minority. its pretty obv, im not dumb. So over all the pages i realized that many of the members are complaining about +2 maw cleaning entire teams. Ok lets start:
My Theorytical team in these matchups are mega maw/mega diancie, Cm clef/SR clef, BD azu/Band Azu, Tr sr diancie/cleric sylv, Screens Klefki and scarf toge.
Here we go.
Ok so they lead wit gal usually and get up dat web or twave your lead than web either way imma lead with toge to get dat hax dow :] Also i never understood getting webs vs fairy cos toge is immune to web and azu and maw have priority and nothing else cares about the web.
252 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Galvantula: 175-207 (62.2 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Armaldo: 139-165 (39.2 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Armaldo: 72-85 (20.3 - 24%) -- guaranteed 5HKO (it does have a counter)
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Togekiss: 252-296 (81 - 95.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Genesect Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Togekiss: 258-306 (82.9 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Genesect: 172-203 (60.7 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Genesect Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 102-121 (33.6 - 39.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO Gene can alos run fire coverage
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 100-118 (33 - 38.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 148-175 (48.8 - 57.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Bug is a respectable type And they have threats including but not limited to Volca, Mega sciz, Mega pinsir, Genesect. When i see players complain that maw sweeped their bug team than see that they sacced their sciz or forretress early game i just facepalm. Maw really only harms bug late game with intimidate + priority. Bug vs fairy With maw is around 45-55 in favor of fairy imo but the mon that puts in the most work is honestly togekiss. (azu can sweep if forret/Sciz is weakened and gene is killed but azu is hard pressed to find somthing to setup on)remember fairy resists bug so it shud be a good matchup.
(rof) the counters are strong for diancie on bug. hp fire + diamond storm cleans house i wont lie. i just keep klefki healthy to tank bps and end up sacing sylv more than often. Imo with diancie its around 42-58% in favor of fairy. togekiss + diancie simply does to much for bug to handle without a reliable spdef wall
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Volcarona: 700-828 (187.6 - 221.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 308-364 (109.6 - 129.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 444-528 (184.2 - 219%) -- guaranteed OHKO
44+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 388-460 (160.9 - 190.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Forretress: 300-356 (84.9 - 100.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO(Sturdy + red card does nothing)
252 SpA Mega Diancie Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Genesect: 320-380 (113 - 134.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Armaldo: 324-384 (91.5 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
Lol maw is ass vs dark. it literally does the least out of all teammembers, always. it can spam play rough but really gets 2hkoed by most on dark
252 SpA Hydreigon Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mega Mawile: 242-286 (79.8 - 94.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mega Mawile: 346-408 (114.1 - 134.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 154-182 (50.8 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 214-254 (70.6 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mega Mawile: 207-243 (68.3 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mega Mawile: 226-268 (74.5 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 149-177 (49.1 - 58.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Btw unburned maw ohkoes all of those mons. IMo vs dark its not maw doing much besides getting indimidates so that teammates can do more work, Primarily tr diancie and clef
vs dark with diancie
Ok diancie helps here too i wont post calcs cos i diancie ohkoes everything with moon blast but select few
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Bisharp: 162-192 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 100+ SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 174-206 (43 - 50.9%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock i think degs ttar looks like this spread idk tho
On to dragon. So imma put this out there cos everyone knows it. Every dragon team has 2-4 choiced mons chances are most are going to have a steel or poison move. dragon vs fairy is probably the most even matchup for any team weak to something besides elec vs water. Dragons dont need calcs cos iron head murders everything and tr diancie is really the only that dragons cant handle
intimidate maw is useful and diancie dies to every eq and iron head. this type is a skip and doesnt really showcase how "insanely op" maw is. klefki twaving is a good option and dual screens really helps.
fire is next and as some of my m8s have described fire can handle fairy quite well
Fire vs fairy with maw. so char-y is hurting every on fairy. nothing on fire does bad vs fairy. Maw if it has fire fang + iron head + play rough or something like that isnt doing shit to fire cos it dies to everything that isnt going to just wisp it
Fire definitely has the upper hand even tho azu at +6 clean sweeps with rocks up All fire has to do is not let azu come in on infernape, entei or torkoal (possibly tran but ive seen lots that run wisp, otherwise theyre scarfed and are going to hit hard)
(wow chill alphabetical order makes diancie out to be better in this post isnt this for mega maw unban?) Diancie Rock stab + epower. that is so mean, plus you cant burn it, it outspeeds most of fire and it throws rocks right back at them. the point is to keep azu alive as last resort for banded aj to clean and to just lead diancie
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 154-183 (47.6 - 56.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 154-183 (39.8 - 47.4%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 436-516 (134.9 - 159.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Torkoal: 306-362 (88.9 - 105.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Torkoal: 206-244 (59.8 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Torkoal: 186-222 (54 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Torkoal: 242-288 (70.3 - 83.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arcanine: 276-326 (72 - 85.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
This is definitely the biggest one. simply bcos more people use flying and maw is a huge threat to flying.(even tho diancie does more work) so maw needs to get to +2 vs flying and then it also needs skarm weakened. I was looking about replays and looking on threads and i found something happened quite often. Skarm would always be weakened cause of the switch in to azu and diancie and sr accumulating and than maw can just kill it. i noticed this several times with people complaining about how good maw is in many times. monotype is incredibly dependable on team preveiw. it really comes down to that, ex fight vs ice good luck buddy, ss water vs fire rof. so if youre running flying and you see that the opponent has a fairy team with mega maw you dont just think. hmm skarm puts in a lot of work lets just bring it in on every physical move. NO GAWDAMNIT you keep it so you can wall maw and whirlwind azu. you dont waste that shit by just bringing it in constantly. Play smart.flying also considers maw to be a huge threat cos it can setup up an sd on alot.
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 152-180 (45.5 - 53.8%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 304-358 (91 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Zapdos: 241-285 (62.7 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
68 SpA Zapdos Heat Wave vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 182-216 (60 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
sucker at +2 kills everything after rocks. so flying types listen up. burn that nigga bae with willo, setup up spikes whirlwind out and generally weaken it b4 you bring in a skarm with only 50%.
Fairy vs flying is probably in flyings favor by around 10% because its easy to just defog and roost with zapdos and skarm and just let fairys giveup
(rof alphabetical is hacked)
imma just put calcs here cos diancie + sylveon + clef are the only things that do anything to flying
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 300-354 (83.5 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Diancie Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 204-242 (61 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Zapdos: 284-336 (73.9 - 87.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 372-440 (96.8 - 114.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Landorus: 243-286 (76.1 - 89.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 219-258 (68.6 - 80.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
vs ghost is entirely dependant on how smart the fairy player is. if maw is burnt it does nothing. put if it setups an sd vs aegi or something ghost loses.
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 464-546 (143.2 - 168.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 218-257 (71.9 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 172-203 (56.7 - 66.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Note aegi has lo in these calcs
+4 252+ Atk Huge Power burned Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 513-604 (168.7 - 198.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jellicent: 744-876 (184.1 - 216.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Golurk: 792-932 (207.3 - 243.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
however when burnt the dmg is severely reduced. it can still hit but not as hard. being burnt also puts a timer on it meaning it will probably only last 1-2 more turns.
This is one of the matchups that i now hate without maw. Diancie still hits hard but gengar kinda just sludge waves to victory, providing klefki isnt dead even tho klefki is really only setting screens in this matchup cos its likely to be burnt early on
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 246-291 (94.9 - 112.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Diancie: 208-246 (86.3 - 102%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
gengar wins speed tie btw.
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jellicent: 127-150 (31.4 - 37.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 162-192 (50 - 59.2%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 36 SpD Sylveon: 312-369 (79.1 - 93.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Klefki through Light Screen: 96-113 (30.1 - 35.5%) -- 92.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Klefki: 191-226 (60 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Klefki Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 106-126 (40.9 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
im going to be completely honest. ive played electric once with fairy and i killed rotom turn 4 and setup an sd with maw and won
i can imagine that not many of you want to see the calcs but here are a couple
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 196-232 (64.6 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Magnezone: 291-343 (103.5 - 122%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Zapdos: 286-337 (74.4 - 87.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dedenne: 149-175 (44 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock THE ONLY TRUE COUNTER BESIDES ROTOM
Umm error never seen, played or heard of
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 171-202 (56.4 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Diancie: 191-226 (79.2 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 434-512 (145.1 - 171.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
see flying for zapdos calcs
If you have maw with iron head + fire fang that can really hurt the opposing fairy squad.but really take it or leave it this matchup is almost entirely teambased, skill based.
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 204-241 (67.3 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Klefki: 189-223 (59.6 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 334-394 (91.7 - 108.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 434-512 (110.1 - 129.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Clefable Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 130-154 (42.9 - 50.8%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO
seeing fairy now is rare. seeing two fairy teams at once is unheard of.
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 198-234 (50.2 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 36 SpD Sylveon: 141-166 (35.7 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Sylveon: 159-187 (40.3 - 47.4%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Klefki: 258-304 (81.1 - 95.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Maw loves sucker punch. thats why its so good. vs a type that resists it isnt the most prime condition. having intimidate + se Stab tho
honestly toge and azu bring the heat in this matchup. with your biggest threat probably being infernape or hawlucha fairy has the definite upper hand vs fighting
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 280-330 (92.4 - 108.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Terrakion Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 180-212 (59.4 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 234-276 (77.2 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Infernape Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 278-330 (91.7 - 108.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Overheat vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 494-585 (163 - 193%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Diancie outspeeds the base 108s and ohkoes everything with moonblast diancie definitely does better than maw in this matchup.
252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Infernape: 338-398 (115.3 - 135.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Terrakion: 396-468 (122.6 - 144.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 396-468 (122.6 - 144.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Breloom: 548-648 (209.9 - 248.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 91-108 (37.7 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 8 HP / 0 SpD Hawlucha: 528-624 (176.5 - 208.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 169-201 (70.1 - 83.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 252-296 (71.7 - 84.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 132-156 (54.7 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 70-84 (29 - 34.8%) -- 7.6% chance to 3HKO
Half down yay :] gonna post other half next couple of days + reasons i think gallade is dumb being banned on psychic.
Sincerely,
iMawile, ChillingtilUnban, Career ended
EDIT: TL;DR why maw isnt that strong against half types And deserves to be Suspected/unbanned WITHOUT Intimidate in base form. intimidate + Stone = nono
If you honestly think that Intimidate is the biggest reason for Mawile being broken, you need to go back to the OU Suspect Thread and read it again; Intimidate was only icing on the cake. The biggest reason for Mega Mawile's ban was the fact that just the standard set alone destroyed any pokemon not named Arcanine, Heatran, or Weezing. Smogon is not going to do a complex ban just for intimidate (If I remember that hellhole of a thread, your suggestion was brought up there at least once) especially when mawile by itself is not broken with it and neither are other intimidaters in the meta. It's an unneeded complex ban for a broken mega.
EDIT: An important thing to remember is that Mega Mawile in mono-fairy gets screens and T-wave support via Klefki, giving it other safe opportunities to set up aside from an intimidated switch.
