The mega sableye discussion was a bit ago, before nani's most recent ban post. I would say lots of decent arguments were there, and while I agree that it is undoubtably great in forming cores, I personally don't think it is broken. Like I said, there is plenty to read, but it honestly has been beaten to death more than once. Reigniting everyone to repost what has been already been posted would be wasting everyone's time, not that arguing over pokemon isn't wasting time anyways though haha.
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Ladder Monotype [Read post #393 for Tiering Updates]
- Thread starter ryan
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As others before me have said, your arguments aren't strong enough to ban it, however there are some problems with what you're saying. Firstly, stall isn't in itself a bad thing. One of the problems I have with the current meta is that outside flying you don't see particularly much bulky offense, hence why scarfninja is actually viable as speed is so much more important than power. A little stall to keep teams more balanced is a good thing.
Secondly, struggle does hit Sableye, and 4x SpA/SpD is +6. Thirdly, although it can be hard to deal with, saying it's difficult to hit hard enough is entirely the wrong way to approach this problem. The problem is that you have to hit it hard enough. You're forced to run a powerful offensive mon, meaning it completely destroys stall due to magic bounce and strong defenses with reliable recovery. The fact that it's got to be hit hard isn't the problem so much as your team needs to run that hard-hitter - every type can hit it hard enough, it's just about whether you want your team to be forced to run that mon.
Going back to Metagross because it seems the thread keeps shifting to other things, and it is in my opinion the biggest problem in Monotype right now.
To reiterate my last points from my previous post, Metagross needs to be dealt with because:
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 165-195 (54.8 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Infernape Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 236-282 (78.4 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 230-272 (76.4 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Salamence Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 158-188 (52.4 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
To reiterate my last points from my previous post, Metagross needs to be dealt with because:
- It demolishes offensive monotype teams (Offensive variants of Dragon, Fighting, and Rock will likely be losing half their team to it) - The insane bulk and team support it has makes it near impossible to revenge kill effectively while the power and coverage lets it OHKO everything on these respective teams. While it may seem simple to just scarf something on Dragon and Fighting teams, there is no such Pokemon that can OHKO Metagross, and not many Pokemon that can even 2HKO it.
- It is an automatic win condition against some monotype teams (Ice, Fairy) - While Mega Scizor is also in theory an automatic win condition vs Fairy and Ice as well, Scizor doesn't pressure every other monotype like Metagross does.
- Monotype isn't OU, you can't throw in a scarf landorus-t on every team, as only Flying and Ground have access to it, with only the former actually using it. This means that the vast majority of types have nothing for Metagross.
- It is on two of the best Monotype teams in the metagame, Steel and Psychic, meaning it has access to the best support, period. Its movepool and speed lets it patch up Steel's only weakness, allowing it to be arguably the best Monotype in the Metagame. The combination of 110 speed + 80/150/110 bulk + 145 attack with tough claws is everything Steel dreamed about.
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 165-195 (54.8 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Infernape Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 236-282 (78.4 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 230-272 (76.4 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Salamence Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 158-188 (52.4 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
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An additional issue with Mega Metagross is its effect on what I refer to as the 'tier three' types (the six least popular). Mega Metagross's four most popular moves are Earthquake, Meteor Mash, Bullet Punch, and Zen Headbutt. These will super-effect most of the Pokemon used by four 'tier three' types. Ice Punch being somewhat popular adds grass to this list as well. If Bullet Punch is not used then five out of six tier three types are constantly being super-effected in one set. Add this to the other issues inherent with Mega Metagross such as bulk, speed, and power, and the result is something very oppressive towards an unacceptable number of the less popular types, and may be a contributing factor towards the unpopular nature of these types. While it is most certainly not the only reason that these types are unpopular, banning Mega Metagross may promote diversity in the Monotype metagame.
Anyway, I'm bumbling along testing my ghost or fire team, and the challenge flying team just comes up to ruin my fun in a big way. I don't know why, but I always run into these things 3 times in a row instead of every once in a while mixed in with other battles. Normally, I'd pull out dragon or dark to rage ladder, even though I really don't like to use those teams, but it occurred to me that the way most of these flying teams are built are really deo-d weak.
So I took Kobe out for a spin.
Kobe Bryant's C2 (Deoxys-Defense) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Recover
- Night Shade
I hate using this set without spikes, but I reckoned that after all, the teams I least liked having show up in the ladder were flying and fire, and a little extra help against bug didn't hurt either.
Anyway it worked out after I adjusted a few things (megagross turned out to be a better partner). Speedy-deo D can essentially shut down many important flying pokemon, although he can only shut down dragon dancers that try to set up on him, as +1 attacks start exceeding his bulk. The most defensive pokemon fail to get 33% damage with their STAB as well, which allows him to both prevent defog and slowly whittle them down without fear of rocky helmet. He does poorly against the other megas, scarf togekiss, and genies, but partners like slowbro and meloetta covered them excellently. Technically zapdos can try for discharge, but as a psychic team I had no problem removing it. All gliscor I fought seemed to be specially invested, rather than the speedy ones used on ground teams that i always had to run away from, so after a while I started taunting them too.
So I took Kobe out for a spin.
Kobe Bryant's C2 (Deoxys-Defense) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Recover
- Night Shade
I hate using this set without spikes, but I reckoned that after all, the teams I least liked having show up in the ladder were flying and fire, and a little extra help against bug didn't hurt either.
Anyway it worked out after I adjusted a few things (megagross turned out to be a better partner). Speedy-deo D can essentially shut down many important flying pokemon, although he can only shut down dragon dancers that try to set up on him, as +1 attacks start exceeding his bulk. The most defensive pokemon fail to get 33% damage with their STAB as well, which allows him to both prevent defog and slowly whittle them down without fear of rocky helmet. He does poorly against the other megas, scarf togekiss, and genies, but partners like slowbro and meloetta covered them excellently. Technically zapdos can try for discharge, but as a psychic team I had no problem removing it. All gliscor I fought seemed to be specially invested, rather than the speedy ones used on ground teams that i always had to run away from, so after a while I started taunting them too.
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Do you need all that speed investment, though? Perhaps you could sacrifice some for some more Def investment. You only need 228+ in speed to outspeed max speed Charizard, and 132+ for the bulky set(which will also outspeed adamant Dragonite, Altaria, most variants of defensive Gliscor and generally most flying type walls. 176+ if you want to outspeed jolly base 80s). Most walls don't tend to carry much speed either, so it really couldn't hurt.Anyway, I'm bumbling along testing my ghost or fire team, and the challenge flying team just comes up to ruin my fun in a big way. I don't know why, but I always run into these things 3 times in a row instead of every once in a while mixed in with other battles. Normally, I'd pull out dragon or dark to rage ladder, even though I really don't like to use those teams, but it occurred to me that the way most of these flying teams are built are really deo-d weak.
So I took Kobe out for a spin.
Kobe Bryant's C2 (Deoxys-Defense) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Recover
- Night Shade
I hate using this set without spikes, but I reckoned that after all, the teams I least liked having show up in the ladder were flying and fire, and a little extra help against bug didn't hurt either.
Anyway it worked out after I adjusted a few things (megagross turned out to be a better partner). Speedy-deo D can essentially shut down many important flying pokemon, although he can only shut down dragon dancers that try to set up on him, as +1 attacks start exceeding his bulk. The most defensive pokemon fail to get 33% damage with their STAB as well, which allows him to both prevent defog and slowly whittle them down without fear of rocky helmet. He does poorly against the other megas, scarf togekiss, and genies, but partners like slowbro and meloetta covered them excellently. Technically zapdos can try for discharge, but as a psychic team I had no problem removing it. All gliscor I fought seemed to be specially invested, rather than the speedy ones used on ground teams that i always had to run away from, so after a while I started taunting them too.
At any rate, nice set.
Glad we played before you added those speed EVs to Deo otherwise it would've been a pain to kill it. Also nice sprites lolAnyway, I'm bumbling along testing my ghost or fire team, and the challenge flying team just comes up to ruin my fun in a big way. I don't know why, but I always run into these things 3 times in a row instead of every once in a while mixed in with other battles. Normally, I'd pull out dragon or dark to rage ladder, even though I really don't like to use those teams, but it occurred to me that the way most of these flying teams are built are really deo-d weak.
So I took Kobe out for a spin.
Kobe Bryant's C2 (Deoxys-Defense) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Recover
- Night Shade
I hate using this set without spikes, but I reckoned that after all, the teams I least liked having show up in the ladder were flying and fire, and a little extra help against bug didn't hurt either.
Anyway it worked out after I adjusted a few things (megagross turned out to be a better partner). Speedy-deo D can essentially shut down many important flying pokemon, although he can only shut down dragon dancers that try to set up on him, as +1 attacks start exceeding his bulk. The most defensive pokemon fail to get 33% damage with their STAB as well, which allows him to both prevent defog and slowly whittle them down without fear of rocky helmet. He does poorly against the other megas, scarf togekiss, and genies, but partners like slowbro and meloetta covered them excellently. Technically zapdos can try for discharge, but as a psychic team I had no problem removing it. All gliscor I fought seemed to be specially invested, rather than the speedy ones used on ground teams that i always had to run away from, so after a while I started taunting them too.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/np-oras-ou-suspect-process-round-3-ghosts.3533937/
May I make a request that we not be like our OU playing cousins?
May I make a request that we not be like our OU playing cousins?
Request denied, apparently :s
What types are those? I'm guessing that four of them are Grass, Ice, Rock and Poison, but what are the other two?
The six least popular types, shown in the Monotype Statistics, are, in ascending order of popularity, Rock, Ice, Electric, Grass, Poison, and Fairy.
Rock-, Ice-, Electric-, Grass-, Poison-, and Fairy-types.
Fairy, huh? That's a little surprising. Isn't it supposed to be one of the best types in the game?
It was until Mawile-Mega was Banned.
Most of you are aware by now, but for those of you that aren't, there is a page on the Monotype Room's website with all kinds of statistics about the monotype metagame, including how often each type is used and what Pokemon are common on each type. scpinion worked hard to put it all together and it's a great resource http://monotypeps.weebly.com/stats.html
If you just want statistics on type usage, the left column of this page is what you're looking for http://monotypeps.weebly.com/sprite-gallery.html
If you just want statistics on type usage, the left column of this page is what you're looking for http://monotypeps.weebly.com/sprite-gallery.html
Pretty much almost all Fairy-type Pokemon have great bulk, excellent abilities, and dual typings that benefit from the resistances that the Fairy typing provides. They have, however, increased the viability of Steel- and Poison-type moves, as well as Pokemon that get STAB on them. Most types have proven to become more viable than Fairy-types in Monotype and have adapted to Fairies well. Fairy isn't one of the best types unfortunately. It has became less common now due to the release of ORAS with move tutors along with new mega evolutions such as Mega Metagross (that Pokemon pretty much threatens the majority of the type by itself).
Hmm... Honestly, I think fairy is one of the best supporting types: If you want a supporting poke in OU, then Azumarill and Klefki are great options for offensive teams, Clefable for bulkier or stall teams, however it's not as strong a type when it's standing on its own. The options are two pranksters, a few bulky attackers, and garde and m-diancie for HO mons, which is pretty much the worst case of great mons not fitting well together that I've seen in a while, TBH. Their lack of variety makes them the opposite of flying, which makes up for its weakness to SR and weaknesses to three common types by having a vast amount of viable mons.
A contributing factor to the unpopularity of Fairy is how many fairy players chose to abandon their type when Mega Mawile was banned. The statistics from the sprite gallery are an overall statistic that is updated monthly. Because it isn't just separate one month blocks, any decrease or increase in popularity is understated. The statistics show a decrease in popularity of 6.63% in December to 4.70% in January. This, especially when considering the understatement, means that well over a third of fairy players abandoned their type in one month. It is also a lesson on just how big an impact that any ban can have on our metagame.
Another reason Fairy is under used is because of Mega Metagross. It inhabits two of the most used types(Psychic and Steel) and Fairy basically autoloses to its combination of Tough Claws Meteor Mash and Bullet Punch. Once Klefki is gone, Fairy really struggles to stop this monster, who can easily sweep at a moments notice (still needs a ban btw, as it murder Rock (outside of Mega Aggron) and Ice as well with just those two moves).
Hello monotype psychic
The March usage stats are up on the Monotype Website.
Pokemon usage stats and sprite gallery: http://monotypeps.weebly.com/sprite-gallery.html
Type Matchup Table and Imbalanced Matchups: http://monotypeps.weebly.com/matchup-tables.html
Metagame Trends/Type Analyses/Lead Information: http://monotypeps.weebly.com/type-analyses.html
As always, make sure to let me know if you need any help understanding something, or if you find any bugs!
Pokemon usage stats and sprite gallery: http://monotypeps.weebly.com/sprite-gallery.html
Type Matchup Table and Imbalanced Matchups: http://monotypeps.weebly.com/matchup-tables.html
Metagame Trends/Type Analyses/Lead Information: http://monotypeps.weebly.com/type-analyses.html
As always, make sure to let me know if you need any help understanding something, or if you find any bugs!
Kyurem-W and Skymin got punted back to Ubers and Mega Gallade is typebanned from psychic. Current discussion is Mega Metagross, Mega Sableye, and Greninja, although the thread's been pretty much at a standstill recently so there might be some sort of verdict coming.
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