Ladder Monotype [Read post #393 for Tiering Updates]

[ryan]

approved by Arcticblast

Viability Rankings / Good Cores / Monotype on Showdown / Room Website​

With a new generation comes new metagames, but tried and true ones can still work in new environments. This thread is going to be for the Monotype metagame in Pokemon XY. Monotype is a really simple concept; you build a team of six Pokemon sharing one common type and fight against teams with the same restriction. You are allowed to use Pokemon with dual-typing on a team represented by either type, but every other Pokemon must share the same type. For example, you can use Scrafty, a Fighting/Dark-type Pokemon, on a Mono-Fighting or a Mono-Dark team. If you choose Scrafty, you can also use Cacturne, a Grass/Dark-type Pokemon, and create a Mono-Dark team with the two of them, but you cannot use Venusaur, a Grass/Poison-type Pokemon, because it shares no common typing with Scrafty. Finally, with our new Mega Evolutons of XY, you'll find some of them change their typing upon Mega Evolving. When using a Mega Evo that changes its typing, you must base its spot on your team on its regular form's typing. What this means is that you can use Mega Charizard X on a Mono-Flying team, but you may not use it on a Mono-Dragon team. Similarly, Mega Aggron can be used on either Mono-Steel or Mono-Rock teams despite losing its Rock typing upon Mega Evolving.

Using six Pokemon of the same type can lead to some interesting team archetypes, and it challenges teambuilders to make sure that the common weaknesses that a certain type of Pokemon shares are covered as best as possible. Still, have fun while teambuilding! This metagame allows for all kinds of Pokemon to be viable against top threats, so be imaginative. Sticking six strong Fighting-types probably won't work well against a Mono-Flying team, and using six bulky Ghost-types isn't going to be very effective against a Mono-Dark team. Effective teams in this metagame usually strike some kind of balance between power and bulk. You can't always get by with brute force!

Current Banlist​

Link​

Notable Posts in thread​

• Talonflame ban
• Nani's general tier update (Damp Rock ban and several unbans)
• Salamencite ban
• Slowbronite and Mawilite ban
• Tier Update: The ReBanning of Kyurem White and Shaymin-Sky, featuring a ban from Galladite on Psychic
• Tier Update: Metagrossite and Greninja global ban, Zapdos ban on Flying

If anything not on these banlists proves to be too overpowered for the meta, we can ban it accordingly. If you want to post about anything being banned, post some evidence and reasoning why you think said Pokemon is broken. Just saying something like, "I think Kyurem-Black should be banned because it has base 170 Attack," is a post that will end up getting deleted, and it won't get you taken seriously. Back up your claim with Showdown replays showing how this Pokemon is overpowered in practice. Tell us how it interacts against other types/playstyles, what checks and counters it, its role on the team type(s) where it's played (going back to the Kyurem-Black example, how does it play on Mono-Ice vs. Mono-Dragon?), and so on. If you're requesting a complex ban, make sure that there's no better ways to handle the problem first. If you need any advice or have any questions on things you think are broken but are unsure what the best way to post is, contact Nani Man beforehand either through message or on Showdown in the Monotype room.

That's about it! XY brought to us a whole new type of Pokemon, which means a whole new playstyle for you to try out. We also received Mega Evolutions, new items, new moves, and new abilities, which means there is a lot to explore this generation. As a final though, before you post, think about what you're saying and whether it adds anything to the conversation or sparks discussion. If not, add to it until it does. The previous Monotype thread was plagued with one-liners and uninformed posts. Let's make an effort this time around to have fun while keeping a certain level of mature conversation. And as always, let's have fun!

 

[Adonzo]

Footnotes of the new additions for your consideration (ignoring Megas for now, as well as Fairy teams, as they deserve their own post). One thing of interest this Gen is that with a few exceptions, most of the mons introduced this Gen are useful is some way and have well defined niches. Very few deadweight mons.

Bug
Vivillon - Potent Quiver Dancer, but faces stiff (overwhelming, even) competition from Volcarona, Venomoth, and Yanmega for a spot on the team.

Dark
Greninja - Wait, this thing's a Dark type? With it's Protean ability allowing it to become any type of its choosing, Greninja becomes an extremely versatile addition to Mono-Dark teams.
Malamar - Great coverage and boosting options between its STABs and Contrary Superpower, meh base stats and defensive typing will likely hold it back from becoming a mainstay.
Pangoro - Meeeeeh. Movepool is a huge letdown despite the interesting Parting Shot. Scrafty does Fighting/Dark better.

Dragon
Dragalge - Solid Special wall, solid power thanks to Adaptability, and its Poison typing makes it a Dragon teams best answer to Fairies.
Goodra - Huge Special wall, finally putting mono-Dragons resistances to good use, alongside several great abilities, great movepool, and decent mixed attacking stats
Noivern - The fastest Dragon type available and a potent Specs user, will face considerable competition from Lati@s
Tyrantrum - Capable Dragon Dancer with two solid abilities and the movepool to abuse them.
Zygarde - Versatile sweeper with great bulk. It and to a lesser extent Tyrantrum fill the large physically-defensive void Dragon teams previously had.

Electric
Dedenne - No.
Heliolisk - On a mono-Electric team, Heliolisk is rather meh, and faces competition with a plethora of other speedy Special Attackers. Bringing 2 immunities to the traditionally frail type will be its main niche.

Fighting
Chesnaught - Solid physical bulk and a great support movepool (a luxury among Fighting-types).
Hawlucha - Fastest non-Mega Fighting-type available, with great offensive typing. Potent Band user.
Pangoro - Still meh.

Fire
Delphox - Good Special Attacker/Sweeper, but nothing terribly special.
Pyroar - Actually, scratch that. THIS is nothing special, at least for a Fire type. Good SpA and Speed, but terrible abilities and movepool.
Talonflame - One of the defining forces of Gen 6, SD and extremely powerful priority make for a terrifying addition.

Flying
Hawlucha - Speed is less impressive amongst Flying types, but still a solid Band user.
Noivern - Again, Speed is less impressive here, but still a solid Specs user.
Talonflame - Yep, still terrifying.
Vivillon - Less Quiver Dancing competition, but still competes with Yanmega. Luckily, there aren't many other Flying-type Special sweepers.

Ghost
Aegislash - Incredibly unique tank with great defensive typing. Overhyped maybe, but still a major addition.
Gourgeist - Now in 4 different flavors! Although only 2 really matter. Take either the physical tank, or the less bulky but speedy supporter.
Trevenant - Man this is probably my favorite mon. Its stalling ability between Leech Seed and Harvest is hilarious.

Grass
Chesnaught - Support movepool is less impressive for a grass-type, but still effective and has unique access to Spiky Shield.
Gogoat - Criminally overlooked, Gogoat is easily the most perfectly designed Bulk Up user ever, owing to great special bulk, good attack, Leech Seed, and Horn Leech.
Gourgeist - Man Gourgeist, your functional but kind of boring.
Trevenant - Still stalling away.

Ground
Diggersby - Even this Gen's derp rodent is good, thanks to Huge Power and priority.
Zygarde - Take Hippowdon, remove Sand Stream, add more Special bulk, versatile sweeping capabilities, priority, and dragon.

Ice
Aurorus - Ice-teams now have two Hail-inducers with terrible defensive typing! Aurorus at least has serviceable bulk, but its offensive abilities aren't as impressive as Abomasnow's.
Avalugg - The physical wall for Ice teams, and a decent spinner to boot.

Normal
Diggersby - Huge Power, and a STAB that wrecks the Rock and Steel types that wall Normal.
Furfrou - Can take physical hits like a champ, but is unimpressive beyond that.
Heliolisk - Stands out more here than on Electric teams, as most special attacking Normals lack Heliolisk's speed, and its Electric STAB hits all Normal resists neutrally.
Pyroar - Once again stands out more here for the same reasons as Heliolisk. In addition, its Fire STAB allows it to roast Steels.

Poison
Dragalge - Not as crucial to Poison as it is to Dragon, but still a potent Special tank.

Psychic
Delphox - Underwhelming here due to the plethora of Special sweeping Psychics, although Fire STAB allows it to beat Steels.
Malamar - Physical attackers (and physical attackers with good coverage) are less common among Psychics, so Malamar stands out a bit more here than on Dark teams.
Meowstic - Prankster's cool, but lacks good moves to abuse it with, and it a mediocre sweeper for a Psychic type.

Rock
Aurorus - Only reason to use this is Snow Warning, which no good on a Rock team.
Barbaracle - Powerful physical Shell Smasher, and... yeah.
Carbink - Great mixed bulk held back by lack of offensive presence or support movepool.
Tyrantrum - Solid physical sweeper with unique coverage for a Rock-type.

Steel
Aegislash - It's Aegislash. Am I done yet?
Klefki - Great defensive typing and effective Prankster movepool.

Water
Barbaracle - Again, not much to say. It's good at what does, although must now compete with Cloyster.
Clawitzer - Man, such a cool, wasted design. Great Special Attack and movepool, but mediocre bulk, poor Speed, and lack of boosting options prevent it from putting it to good use.
Greninja - Still here, breaking all the monotype rules.

 

[Adonzo]

Sorry for the double post, but this doesn't really fit in with my previous post

As far as mono-Fairy teams go, one major weakness that stuck out to me is their physical frailty. While the type has Special walls aplenty, for physical walls its options are limited to Togetic, Granbull, Mega Mawile, and Carbink, all of whom have some significant drawback. Togetic is SR weak and relies on Eviolite, Granbull relies on Intimidate, Mega Mawile takes the mega slot and is better suited to an offensive role, and Carbink is offensively inept. This leaves Fairy teams very vulnerable to most physical sweepers.

EDIT: Forgot about normal Mawile, who is reliant on Intimidate

 

[T-Bolt]

Sorry for the double post, but this doesn't really fit in with my previous post

As far as mono-Fairy teams go, one major weakness that stuck out to me is their physical frailty. While the type has Special walls aplenty, for physical walls its options are limited to Togetic, Granbull, Mega Mawile, and Carbink, all of whom have some significant drawback. Togetic is SR weak and relies on Eviolite, Granbull relies on Intimidate, Mega Mawile takes the mega slot and is better suited to an offensive role, and Carbink is offensively inept. This leaves Fairy teams very vulnerable to most physical sweepers.

EDIT: Forgot about normal Mawile, who is reliant on Intimidate

Unfortunately, I don't think you can use Mega-Mawile on fairy monotype, since the type of the base pokemon must be fairy, which Mawile isn't. I guess Whimsicott could take a few physical hits with cotton guard, and a physical spread is viable on Togekiss too.

Fairy monotype doesn't really look like it'll be too big though, it just doesn't have the right tools. Which is a pity since I was expecting a lot out of fairy, especially cos dragon monotype was so OP last Gen. :(

 

[Arcticblast]

Unfortunately, I don't think you can use Mega-Mawile on fairy monotype, since the type of the base pokemon must be fairy, which Mawile isn't. I guess Whimsicott could take a few physical hits with cotton guard, and a physical spread is viable on Togekiss too.

Fairy monotype doesn't really look like it'll be too big though, it just doesn't have the right tools. Which is a pity since I was expecting a lot out of fairy, especially cos dragon monotype was so OP last Gen. :(

Mawile's base form is also Steel/Fairy.

 

[T-Bolt]

Mawile's base form is also Steel/Fairy.

So it is......

I don't know where I got that from -_-

Anyway, bug monotype has got a pretty big boost this Gen, with access to sticky web and three Megas.

 

[EtherDrive]

well with the new crit mechanics I can't wait to try

Sniper Razor Claw Drapion Paired with Lansat/Sub/Speed boost Scolipede as an offensive mono poison combination

 

[Littha]

well with the new crit mechanics I can't wait to try

Sniper Razor Claw Drapion Paired with Lansat/Sub/Speed boost Scolipede as an offensive mono poison combination

Drapion has a really good move pool for a crit set (Cross Poison and Night Slash are awesome.) I was running one on my monodark team earlier, though I haven't tried passing it boosts yet. I suppose if you manage to pass it a focus energy/Lansat you can run stronger moves

Earthquake/Crunch/Poison Jab/Thunder Fang hits everything at least neutrally and 72% of all pokemon super effectively.

Incidentally it gets at most a 3 hit ko on literally everything in the game.

 

[ryan]

I think the most interesting new additions in Monotype this generation aren't even so much the new Pokemon so much as the older Pokemon that were retyped to Fairy and how they'll interact on their respective type's teams. What I mean by this is how Azumarill will play on Mono-Water, Togekiss on Mono-Flying, Mawile on Mono-Steel, Gardevoir on Mono-Psychic, etc. All of them bring a nice Dragon immunity to the table, which obviously matters a lot less for Mono-Steel but a lot more for every other Monotype team. Dragon spam was a pretty effective strategy in BW Monotype. I remember using a team with it, and it was really, really good and really, really thoughtless. In most games, you could just click Dragon moves and watch things die. But now in XY Monotype, even if Azumarill, Togekiss, Mawile, Gardevoir, and the overall Fairy typing aren't super common, just the fact that these Pokemon exist can definitely deter people from using Dragon spam and thus drop its viability.

Individually, all four of the aforementioned Pokemon bring some cool things to the table for their team. Probably the best one is Gardevoir, who is no longer weak to Dark and brings with it a way for Mono-Psychic to break through opposing Mono-Dark teams offensively quite easily. Unfortunately, Jirachi and Metagross both gaining weaknesses to Dark and Ghost dropped Mono-Psychic's viability a bit, but between Gardevoir and Meloetta, Mono-Psychic might still be pretty good.

Azumarill is just a good, well-rounded (ehue) Pokemon. It gives Mono-Water a Dragon immunity, which is great considering that previously Mono-Water's best Pokemon against Mono-Dragon were Cloyster, Empoleon, and Swift Swim Kingdra. The only problem is that the best Mono-Water teams will probably just be teams of Politoed + a bunch of Swift Swim users, but Azumarill is still most certainly viable, especially as a way of these teams to break down problematic special walls.

Togekiss is definitely an interesting case. Mono-Flying is generally a really cool Monotype because there are so many fantastic Flying-type Pokemon that may not even use their Flying STAB. Landorus, Dragonite, Salamence, Thundurus, etc. are all great Flying-types that are all so different from each other, so there's a lot of room to try out different strategies. This is also really fantastic for Togekiss. The opponent might only have one or two Flying resistances on their team, so they might have to lose it pretty early on in the match while trying to handle the Dragon/Flying-types, Thundurus, etc. This ultimately leaves them even more vulnerable to Togekiss, which can spam Air Slash much more freely after resistances have been taken out. But all of this ignores its new Fairy typing, ultimately because it doesn't matter too much to Togekiss. It makes it an all-around better Pokemon for sure, and it gives Mono-Flying a Dragon check not named Skarmory. Otherwise though, its new Fairy STAB probably won't be very common on it, and its added resistances to Bug and Fighting are mostly irrelevant. Only the added Dark resistance really matters outside of the Dragon immunity. The other cool buff that Togekiss got was Defog, which gives Mono-Flying a hazard remover without having to use Delibird. This is huge for Mono-Flying in general though.

Finally, Mawile is super cool. The only problem with it is that its added Fairy typing offers little defensively for Mono-Steel. The good thing is that it's neutral to Fighting now, but there are already a decent amount of viable Steel-types that aren't Fighting weak (Scizor, Jirachi, Metagross, Skarmory, Forretress, etc). Still, offensively, Mega Mawile is spectacular, so I'm sure it'll see plenty of use. Mega Mawile is also probably one of the only redeeming qualities for Mono-Fairy, which otherwise seems pretty underwhelming to me.

Thoughts on our retyped Pokemon? What about other new moves, items, Pokemon, and abilities? There's lots of new stuff to discover about the metagame, so there's plenty to discuss!

 

[PokemonMasterDebater]

Monotype XY - Now with an active PS ladder!

Why does the thread title lie to us? There isn't one on the main server. If there is one elsewhere, it isn't mentioned. What's causing the delay on ladders for OMs that are deserving of one?

 

[Joim]

lies

edit: it's no longer a lie, I am just a butt and lie to Treecko

 

[All-ice]

Hi guys! I don't know where else to put this, but some Pokemon have Illegal moves.

I just faced a Super power Scizor(Turn 5) ... http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oumonotype-69823056

Can you guys please fix Illegal Move sets?

 

[Joim]

Movesets are post-pokebank on this metagame, as there is no point on prebank right now.

 

[Slayr231]

Is Protean Kecleon starting to rise or something? I haven't seen it.

In other news, Talonflame overtakes Heatran as the complete bane of my grass team. Is anyone else noticing threats popping up?

 

[Adonzo]

Talonflame is absolute anathema to Bug and Grass monotypes. Nigh impossible to stop with only Bug/Rock and Grass/Rock types being neutral to its STABs, none of which are exactly staples to their teams. My best bets at stopping it with my Bug team are typically Shuckle stalling with Toxic / Infestation, or Custap Forretress Explosion.

EDIT: Also, no. Kecleon is shit. It may see use in lower metas like NU or something, but it is so slow that the opponent can abuse Protean almost as easily as Color Change.

 

[Slayr231]

Actually, I've been using my Tangrowth to stop Talonflame. Thanks to its incredible defensive bulk, Tangrowth can take that Brave Bird and I carry Hidden Power Rock on mine, so... you can figure it out. Although, that does mean a lot of juggling is required to keep Tangrowth alive, so that's another thing that's not so great.

 

[AOPSUser]

Actually, I've been using my Tangrowth to stop Talonflame. Thanks to its incredible defensive bulk, Tangrowth can take that Brave Bird and I carry Hidden Power Rock on mine, so... you can figure it out. Although, that does mean a lot of juggling is required to keep Tangrowth alive, so that's another thing that's not so great.

Ancientpower>HP Rock for all intents and purposes, especially since you only need it for one mon. Although keeping it healthy seems like quite the challenge either way. Have fun running mono-Grass or mono-Bug this gen. And Talonflame shits on mono-Fighting pretty hard too.

 

[Adonzo]

Fighting types at least commonly learn Rock moves to cover Talonflame. Few Bug or Grass types learn a coverage move to bring him down.

 

[AOPSUser]

Fighting types at least commonly learn Rock moves to cover Talonflame. Few Bug or Grass types learn a coverage move to bring him down.

I don't really know any Fighting-types other than Cobalion that can withstand a Brave Bird from Talonflame. It doesn't really matter anyways I guess since mono-Flying still pretty much beats them anyways thanks to their high speeds.

 

[Slayr231]

I don't really know any Fighting-types other than Cobalion that can withstand a Brave Bird from Talonflame. It doesn't really matter anyways I guess since mono-Flying still pretty much beats them anyways thanks to their high speeds.

Just give every member a focus sash! :V

I think flying type teams have received a huge bump this gen with Talonflame and the added fairy type with Togekiss. That and poison teams, they now have an excuse to use their STAB on other people than me now.

 

[Pyritie]

Do you think electric terrain would be a worthwhile move to have somewhere on a monoelectric team, since most of them lack any other way to boost?

 

[Toljik]

So what types do you think are most viable on OU Monotype?

 

[fenyxofshadows]

I should test my mono-Fairy team I've been derping around with on OU

edit: how does spoilers here's the list (locations are mostly for my building on-cart)

 

[Vaughnster]

I've been messing with a monobug team. On monobug either Shuckle or Forretress is basically required, as they're the only things that can really take down Talonflame. My teem wept openly at the banning of Genesect, but has still managed to hang in there and do way better than I expected. BP Scolipede + Mega Heracross has gotten me most of my wins.

 

[skies]

Sorry if this has been answered, but I couldn't find it. How do Mega Evolutions work? Can I use Pinsir in MonoFlying, Gyarados in MonoDark, or Ampharos in MonoDragon?