# Most Generation PRNG Help / Information

#### shiny finder

##### forever searching
Chatot Wrangler
Cheers.
Further question: if you go after Mesprit while Cresselia is out, will the starting frame be 5 or 6?
No problem! It would be 6: Starting frame of 5 + 1 for an active roamer.

According to the rng guide though, it's possible that 1 may vary with the seed (i.e. it could be 1+, meaning 6 would be the minimum). Be that as it may, I think assuming 1 would be a good starting point. You can always check where you actually are with Chatot.

#### Unknown Warrior

No problem! It would be 6: Starting frame of 5 + 1 for an active roamer.

According to the rng guide though, it's possible that 1 may vary with the seed (i.e. it could be 1+, meaning 6 would be the minimum). Be that as it may, I think assuming 1 would be a good starting point. You can always check where you actually are with Chatot.
Yeah but I'm terrible at pitch recognition.

#### Unknown Warrior

For Platinum's chained shinies:
If there's a 16Bit High 000D, does that mean I need to make a chain of 2-3 before it pops up shiny or how does it work? The only method I know is a 16bit High <= 0008 after starting the chain but I'm assuming a larger chain will double those odds?

#### Buckert

##### Obsessive Collecting Disorder
For Platinum's chained shinies:
If there's a 16Bit High 000D, does that mean I need to make a chain of 2-3 before it pops up shiny or how does it work? The only method I know is a 16bit High <= 0008 after starting the chain but I'm assuming a larger chain will double those odds?
Just go for 0000 - 0008 and everthing in between. Making a chain of 2-3 wouldn't make sense anyway, since that'll a) takes a lot of extra time, b) confirming your delay would take a lot longer and c) people didn't suggest searching for anything from 0000 to 0008 for no reason. I know it's a lot of work, that's why I asked someone which spread they used so I could RNG abuse a new save file for my Platinum.

#### Unknown Warrior

Just go for 0000 - 0008 and everthing in between. Making a chain of 2-3 wouldn't make sense anyway, since that'll a) takes a lot of extra time, b) confirming your delay would take a lot longer and c) people didn't suggest searching for anything from 0000 to 0008 for no reason. I know it's a lot of work, that's why I asked someone which spread they used so I could RNG abuse a new save file for my Platinum.
I was too hasty, since I found a 0006 bit anyway later on. Shiny HP Ice Elektrike and 5IV Jolly Beldum have been succesfully RNG'd.

#### Lego

##### Formally LegoFigure11
When doing Emerald Egg PID abuse, is the egg generated when I input the command to take the 255th step or once I have completed the 255th step? The guide doesn't really say. And also, because the game takes 16 frames to take a step, does that mean I need to subtract 16 frames from my target frame in EonTimer? Thanks for any help.

#### Buckert

##### Obsessive Collecting Disorder
In HGSS, how is Unowns form determined in the RNG? Does that depend on the PID in combination with the encounterslot, or how does it work?

#### Thomaz

This discussion was happening a while ago here, I think Thomaz managed to get 27/28 Unowns with a single PID?

TL;DR : Determined by encounter slots, which are determined by which puzzles have been completed (order doesn't matter).
Actually, I'm not even sure you can say it's determined by encounter slots. I'd argue they are completely determined by which puzzles you have completed. You won't get a different Unown if you try a different frame with the same Seed. Generally, you get letter "X" by normal means, then letter "Y" by using the Mysterious Transmission.

I haven't tested everything, but the thing that worked for me, is to use some sort of back up before you complete the puzzles (so, emulator is the easiest for this. Redoing a file four times would be kinda annoying...).

Remember how the Mysterious Transmission helps you find Unown you haven't seen yet easier? You can use that to pretty much find them all (except ? and !, they are exempt from this rule for some reason...).

Let's say we complete the Ho-Oh puzzle and only this one. That unlocks W, X, Y and Z. Say that the normal try gives up Z and using the MT gives us Y. You catch both of these, then save and reseed the game. Now, if you use the MT again, either W or X will pop up instead of the Y we got earlier. Say W appears, we catch it and then, when you save and reseed the game again, X will now appear, while using the MT.

You can do this for every puzzle. Hope that helps. :)

Edit: on another note, I just RNGed a new save for the
I was missing. It worked. :D I now have a full collection of shiny Unowns (though this one has higher Atk. <_<).

Edit2: now that I think about it. You might actually be able to do it in one file if you keep catching the one that shows up while using MT. Like, have all four puzzles active, then catch whatever shows up, then save and try again. I don't know for sure, but I guess it's worth to try. :)

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#### Dark Ray

There was a little bit of HG/SS Unown talk in this thread in January, it starts here.
more stuff
Like I said in January, ESVs mean nothing for 4th gen Unown.
Edit2: now that I think about it. You might actually be able to do it in one file if you keep catching the one that shows up while using MT. Like, have all four puzzles active, then catch whatever shows up, then save and try again. I don't know for sure, but I guess it's worth to try. :)
I already covered this in January too
It works the same as Sync/Cute Charm/other "increases chance of encountering X" things, except only if you haven't seen all Unown letters.
RNG call > if X encounter new Unown shape / if not X proceed as normal.

On amab's map the result was not X, but the letters changed because the RNG call happens between IVs/PID and Unown shape determination.
if the RNG decides the radio will give you a new Unown it doesn't matter how many puzzles you have unlocked, you could unlock and catch them one group at a time or unlock them all before starting.

#### Unknown Warrior

Is there a way for fast frame advancement in DPPt akin to HGSS's Radio, or am I best of sticking to quickly cycling between Chatot?

#### Luxpluff91

Is there a way for fast frame advancement in DPPt akin to HGSS's Radio, or am I best of sticking to quickly cycling between Chatot?
You can also use Journal flips (see more at the in-site guide), but I'd personally stick to Chatot.

#### Unknown Warrior

You can also use Journal flips (see more at the in-site guide), but I'd personally stick to Chatot.
Hmm, that's what I was afraid of. I'm doing chain shinies (on emulator) and they require ridiculously high frames (this one's 4300 ish) and I was wondering if I could go there faster.
Thanks, though.

#### Luxpluff91

Hmm, that's what I was afraid of. I'm doing chain shinies and they require ridiculously high frames (this one's 4300 ish) and I was wondering if I could go there faster.
Thanks, though.
Yea, I know the feeling. What I do (when I need to do the last batch of advances) is figure out exactly on which frame I am, and then doing 1000 advances via Chatot, just quickly counting. After those 1000 advances, I figure out my frame again via Chatot pitches (should be really close to 1000, depending on small errors I may have done), and I repeat until I get about 100 frames from my target. At that point I just advance slowly, hearing the pitches so I don't miss.

#### Regiultima115

I plan on RNGing a shiny Jolly Beldum (swarm) in Platinum and without realizing it before getting to the Beldum, the route Beldum swarm at is a sandstorm route (with one walking NPC, but I fixed that). Will the sandstorm affect my RNG (similarly to the one in BW/B2W2) and if it does, is there a way to remove or compensate for it?

#### shiny finder

##### forever searching
Chatot Wrangler
I plan on RNGing a shiny Jolly Beldum (swarm) in Platinum and without realizing it before getting to the Beldum, the route Beldum swarm at is a sandstorm route (with one walking NPC, but I fixed that). Will the sandstorm affect my RNG (similarly to the one in BW/B2W2) and if it does, is there a way to remove or compensate for it?
Iirc it shouldn't affect the IVs, but you can't verify your seed with Coin Flips; you'll have to use Chatot. You can't remove it unfortunately.

#### Regiultima115

Iirc it shouldn't affect the IVs, but you can't verify your seed with Coin Flips; you'll have to use Chatot. You can't remove it unfortunately.
Thanks for the coin flip info. I didn't know that it would cause coin flip verification to fail. One other thing; since sandstorm prevents honey from working and taking 128 (iirc, I know there's some amount of steps) steps advances the frames, is it possible to avoid the frame advancement from steps if I tap the arrow keys to change direction until I find a wild pokemon or do the rotations also count as steps?

#### shiny finder

##### forever searching
Chatot Wrangler
Thanks for the coin flip info. I didn't know that it would cause coin flip verification to fail. One other thing; since sandstorm prevents honey from working and taking 128 (iirc, I know there's some amount of steps) steps advances the frames, is it possible to avoid the frame advancement from steps if I tap the arrow keys to change direction until I find a wild pokemon or do the rotations also count as steps?
I'm a bit rusty (in case you can't tell :P) but I think the turning doesn't count toward the 128 steps. It will advance the frame by 1 every turn though (you're walking/turning in an area where you can encounter wild Pokemon).

#### Regiultima115

I'm a bit rusty (in case you can't tell :P) but I think the turning doesn't count toward the 128 steps. It will advance the frame by 1 every turn though (you're walking/turning in an area where you can encounter wild Pokemon).
After doing some research on Smogon's guides, it appears that NPCs do advance the frame by 1 for random turning (and 1 for random movements as well). However, the guide says nothing about the player turning. Am I supposed to interpret that as "because it is not mentioned, it does not happen" or does the player count as a randomly moving "NPC" (which wouldn't make sense from the terminology, but could happen) when it comes to turning?

#### shiny finder

##### forever searching
Chatot Wrangler
After doing some research on Smogon's guides, it appears that NPCs do advance the frame by 1 for random turning (and 1 for random movements as well). However, the guide says nothing about the player turning. Am I supposed to interpret that as "because it is not mentioned, it does not happen" or does the player count as a randomly moving "NPC" (which wouldn't make sense from the terminology, but could happen) when it comes to turning?
From http://www.smogon.com/ingame/rng/dpphgss_rng_part2#stepfour

"Taking a step or turning in areas where you can encounter wild Pokemon (grass, water, or caves) advances the frame by 1 for each step/turn made."

So since you'll be turning in a place where you have to encounter Wild Pokemon, each of your turns will advance it by 1. NPCs are a different issue, and yeah they advance your frame as well with their erratic movements.

#### Regiultima115

From http://www.smogon.com/ingame/rng/dpphgss_rng_part2#stepfour

"Taking a step or turning in areas where you can encounter wild Pokemon (grass, water, or caves) advances the frame by 1 for each step/turn made."

So since you'll be turning in a place where you have to encounter Wild Pokemon, each of your turns will advance it by 1. NPCs are a different issue, and yeah they advance your frame as well with their erratic movements.
NPCs are non-issue thanks to the VS seeker (at least on Beldum's swarm route).

Do you know of any way to predict how many turns I'll need to encounter a wild Pokemon, is it random (to the point where it can't be predicted), or trial and error?

#### Buckert

##### Obsessive Collecting Disorder
NPCs are non-issue thanks to the VS seeker (at least on Beldum's swarm route).

Do you know of any way to predict how many turns I'll need to encounter a wild Pokemon, is it random (to the point where it can't be predicted), or trial and error?
You should use the Pokéradar. Also a way to verify your delay, as the shaking spots will be the same everytime you hit the same delay.

#### shiny finder

##### forever searching
Chatot Wrangler
NPCs are non-issue thanks to the VS seeker (at least on Beldum's swarm route).

Do you know of any way to predict how many turns I'll need to encounter a wild Pokemon, is it random (to the point where it can't be predicted), or trial and error?
The radar as Buckert mentioned is a definitive option. You can't predict how many turns it'll take (well, I'm sure there's some way theoretically), so there will be a lot of trial and error.

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#### Luxpluff91

Given a spread or PID, is there any way to check on which encounter slots it can appear? (Generation 3)