My Pony Knows Stone Edge!

[damien50]

Intro

I'm not particularly into the rain domination nor can I say I'm not a fan of the current metagame with it's entry hazards, occasional trick rooms, and weather domination. The point of this team or I guess the way I play this team is set like this... Three very decent walls coupled with a rapid spin block and who can sweep, one revenge killer and one sweeper requiring set up. Though I may not be exact in what I'm talking about I haven't played for some time and my sets may not seem the best. For the past week I played with some combinations using mons like Celebe, Rotom-W, Virizion, and some others that obviously didnt work out and my best success has came from this team. I don't rely on sandstorm nor is it the basis of my team but constant damage when I need it to be and while it may not work in my favor for certain situations it is a great tool during weather wars and mid game. So since I don't have more to add to this introduction without talking about my team in depth I'll get to the good stuff. By the way let me mention that I don't remember natures so I'll just put a + and - respectively.

Tyranitar
100 hp
152 SpA
252 SpD+
Spd -
-Pursuit
-Stone Edge
-Flamethrower
-Protect
Leftovers/Sandstream

This set aims for a few things - First and foremost, Tyranitar is my special soaker taking a lot of hits, despite his bad typing that my sweepers just can't take and stand against. With a boosted SpD from sandstream and a boost in nature for it, he soaks up non boosted SpA's with ease and makes many sweepers retreat. This is why I run pursuit, it lets me get some damage in when they switch out for STAB damage regardless of them switching out or staying in. Stone Edge is for switch ins or just destroying drought teams and because of a high crit ratio with amazing stats already, it gives good damage in general. Now on to the second reason for Tyranitar - he can stall special and physical sweepers(to a lesser degree) very well. With well placed switches and protects coupled with sandstorm constantly going I have a viable means of stalling for leftovers recovery and letting my revenge killer or my two others with much better speed come in for the kill. Flamethrower while less powerful than Fire Blast makes for an excellent ability when grass or when Scizor decides to appear while dealing with many steel type switch ins that can bring a fighting/steel/earthquake to the fight.

A general idea would be against a drought team they bring a SpA venusaur to kill my Def wall - using a Solarbeam would OHKO but switching to Ttar lowers speed, brings sandstorm and cushions what would have been a KO. He is my soaker and the only weakness with the rest of the team supporting him is toxic and burns.

Slowbro
100 Hp
152 SpA
252 Def+
Spd-
Slack Off
Psyshock
Scald
Thunderwave
Leftovers/Regenerate

Ah a wall so strong that those that would sweep me, Gliscor/Tornadus/Landorus/Scizor flee in fustration! He's not the best wall ever but his typing and high defense make him fit this team well coupled with the fact that he's constantly switching out, he's hard to kill. Slack Off is there for stalling and regeneration with Thunderwave to cripple teams that would make mince meat of my Mence. Psyshock deals nicely with some rain threats I can't stand like Politoed/Tentacruel who boast a decent SpD. Scald deals with most every physical sweeper I can think of, not OHKOing them but burning them and taking enough of a chunk of health for them to switch out or get stalled to death. Thunderwave generally just deals with those that would move faster or have a priority move waiting like extreme speed or a bullet punch. But Slowking's roll is stall and soaking with enough SpA to either take out or annoy gliscor/landorus and do some general damage to those that would resist SpA damage.

Forretress
252 Hp
252 Def+
Spd -
Explosion
Stealth Rock
Toxic Spikes
Rapid Spin
Leftovers

The way I use him is like this - I see the team and determine what the highest priority as fast as entry hazards and those that may lay them, then I proceed with what I believe to be true.

Scenario 1: A team of flying and steel types - stealth rock only. Gauge the lead - if no spikes or anything are dropped - switch out to soak or suicide on an annoying set up/sweeper

Scenario 2: Tentatruel appears - switch out - reason being tentacruel must die for toxic spikes and stealth rock to work, sacrificing leaves me one mon short and without a rapid spinner

There's not much more to him than that and most people don't expect and explosion forretress so they don't protect and their lead/switch in either dies or becomes crippled but in favorable situations, stealth rock and or one-two layers of toxic spikes are dropped and an explosion occurs. The reason spikes won't be removed is because of my next mon.

Gengar
100 Hp
252 Spd+
152 SpA
Pain Split
Thunder
Shadow Ball
Focus Punch/HP Ice
Leftovers/Levitate

I'm not all too sure on this set but it has worked to a degree with Gengar blocking rapid spins and revenging decent. Pain split works well when low on hp or I need to whittle away someone's HP for a switch in. Shadowball for STAB and some revenging here and there. Thunder for Politoed or Tentacruel who seem to plague me and focus punch for Heatran(I think he's an issue lol) and other mons who are weak to fighting though with my coverage hidden power ice may be a better choice. Gengar comes in, he blocks, he hits, or he switches, however it may go. But running HP Ice/Thunder covers all spinners but Forretress. I'm just not too sure about Gengar in general but I feel my set is to blame.

Terrakion
252 Att
252 Spd+
-SpA
Earthquake
Close Combat
X Scissor
Stone Edge
Choice Scarf/Justified

He revenges, he sweeps, he enters when he pleases! He is the Janitor! The obvious set on him with choice scarf because he will outspeed anything not in the sun or rain dealing very nice damage to those that would try to sweep him in his element or even outside. The same counters always hurt but the team takes care of them very well. He comes in early, mid, and late game and revenges or sweeps but this set is solid and hasn't had any issues.

Salamence
252 Att
252 Spd+
Earthquake
Dragon Dance
Outrage
Aqua Tail
Dragon Gem/Moxie

Look... Gliscor was a HUGE counter and still is, the reasoning for aqua tail. I run Outrage because generally or more often than not someone is waiting for him to come out and he doesn't take ice hits very well but obliterates all dragons that don't get to set up before him. He is like my second suicide but with more kills. The Earthquake is for a KO/Coverage and just to build moxie. When lucky I can get a dragon dance if not I switch out or go outrage so by the second or third time I'm boosted nicely or dead. He takes Terrakion/Tyranitar/Slowking's counters decently enough when he switches in but in no way do I use him to soak more than half his HP. He normally comes in mid to late game but rarely lives that long. My best approach is predicting a slow switch in that would me dragon dance once.

Outro/Summary of How We Work/Weaknesses​

This is the most successful team I've created and everyone protects each other while performing their roles greatly. All I ask is that Salamence be less squishy and Terrakion learn to fly but I honestly had not even layed out how the battle would go minus the extra stuff.

Gengar - protects Terrakion/Tyranitar - blocks spins - annoys opponent
Salamence - protects Terrakion/Tyranitar - sweeps/revenge kills/suicide
Forretress - lays hazards/remove - KO's or whittles opponents down
Tyranitar - soaks SpA - removes threats - stall
Slowking - soaks Att - cripples team - stall
Terrakion - Sweeps - Revenge

This is how my team mostly works and I'm proud of what I put together but I'm very open to suggestions especially against rain teams... But so far my biggest issue is Ninetales running drought and sunny day>Politoed and Tentacruel with toxic spikes. If my team can avoid status effects we're pretty solid. Thank you for reading and I appreciate all suggestions!​

 

[pwnage77]

it would be best if you follow this format:

Hide

Pokemon@Item / Item-1
Ability:
EVs:
Nature:
(Possible IVs on this slot)
Moves:
~ Move A / Move A-1
~ Move B / Move B-1
~ Move C / Move C-1
~ Move D / Move D-1

< Insert a good but not that short description about the pokemon.>

as you can see, slashes (/) indicate alternatives.

also your Gengar is running an absolutely weird set. Focus Punch, though extremely uncommon, sure is viable but then without Substitute, you can't use it effectively.

 

[CedOmega]

I'd suggest giving Salamence Lum Berry>DragonGem for various reasons. One being that should the opponent not status or KO Moxiemence after a couple DD, once locked into Outrage, it can almost assure guaranteed sweeps afterward. Lum berry also stop t-wave & will-o-wisp from hindering its DD abuse. Confusion, too, can be prevented from Outrage. Without Lum berry, when matched w/ a +2 Moxie boost after a DD, Salamence could potentially KO itself consequently from confusion recoil.

Also, I'd give Gengar Blacksludge>Leftover to foil Scarfed Trick users like Jirachi, Rotom-W, etc, and stop them from helping themselves to your Leftovers.

 

[New World Order]

Well, I haven't posted any rates for centuries, but I think a Trick Room Reuniclus can impose its will on this team. The combination of Psychic, Shadow Ball, and Focus Blast will just be too much for this team to handle if it ever sets up (Forretress is THE set up bait in Pokemon). A quick way to mitigate this issue is to run a Chople Berry and Crunch instead of Pursuit on Tyranitar. Lets face it, if Tyranitar doesn't have Crunch, it just isn't intimidating enough to force a switch. Chople Berry also helps tank a Focus Blast and return fire with Crunch, this would also help kill off a few Trick Room turns and set up someone else to finish it off. Your team is also relatively slow, and fast sweepers such as Alakazam can impose its will on you when Terrakion goes down. Chople Berry can give you just what you need to escape that situation. You may also consider running Stealth Rock on Tyranitar over Protect to open up a slot on Forretress for Spikes and better hazard control.

I agree with pwnage that Gengar should use Substitute and Life Orb to be more effective with Pain Split. Sand and Substitute wearing you down too quickly? No biggie, all it means is more damage from Pain Split. Also, no matter how you put it, a move with 50% accuracy has no business on any set. Yes, it helps against rain teams, but why not just use Thunderbolt instead, which trades power against Rain teams for utility in more than 1 out of every 4 games.

Thunder Wave on Slowbro just seems counter-productive to me. Your team wants Toxic Spikes to proc as much as possible, and Thunder Waving something that just switched into your Toxic Spikes means you just wasted a turn. Even worse, you could accidentally Thunder Wave something before you get T-Spikes onto the field, and some Pokemon such as opposing Slowbros are insufferable if they aren't poisoned. Why not carry Ice Beam to deal with the likes of Landorus and Salamence so you can find a more appropriate coverage move on Salamence?

Speaking of Salamence, I personally feel he is the weak link of this team. I just think that a Landorus would be so much more productive in the same role. Swords Dance, Earthquake, Stone Edge, and Smack Down (yes, Smack Down) seems to mesh very well with this team. If you opt not to run Spikes, the classic Scizor+Rotom-W combo could give you a lot of headaches. You know, that same Rotom-W you land Smack Down on, and force out with Earthquake.You mention Tentacruel as a huge problem. Problem solved. The biggest issue with this change is that it makes your team relatively slow without Salamence's Dragon Dance, and is more vulnerable to revenge kills. But you make a trade with every change, and Landorus' offensive presence will be felt both early game and late game.

Also, I'd give Gengar Blacksludge>Leftover to foil Scarfed Trick users like Jirachi, Rotom-W, etc, and stop them from helping themselves to your Leftovers.

Aaaaand that same Jirachi (who doesn't give 2 shits about the Poison since it's a Steel-type) and Rotom-W just passes it right along to Tyranitar and says "gee, thanks Gengar for making this weather war even easier than before."

 

[Shining_Latios]

I don't really find Ninetales as a big issue. Both Tyranitar and Terrakion have Stone Edge and Salamence has Earthquake. The first suggestion I have is trying out Utility Counter Jellicent over Slowbro.

Hide

Jellicent @ Leftovers
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Defense / 44 Speed
Bold Nature
Moves:
- Scald
- Toxic
- Recover
- Taunt

Jellicent is a very good counter to Scizor, Landorus, Gliscor, and is able to take hits from Tornadus/-T better than Slowbro. Jellicent's Ghost-typing also grants it to be a reliable spin blocker, freeing Gengar, who was probably the weak link in your team, to be replaced. Jellicent's ability, Water Absorb, also provides you with a decent counter to rain teams, who can be an issue. Scald is used over Surf for the chance of burning those pesky physical sweepers. Toxic is definitely the superior option compared to Will-o-Wisp since Scald is being used over Surf. Taunt allows Jellicent hinder slower Pokemon's recovery moves and can also be helpful in ripping apart stall teams. Now, looking over your team, Skarmory looks to be an issue. If Forretress is gone and Skarmory is putting hazards up, Jellicent's can't perform to its fullest since it takes full damage from entry hazards To patch this up, I suggest changing Gengar into Magnezone. Magnezone will eliminate Skarmory and pesky steel-types from the field giving Jellicent it's full potential.

Hide

Magnezone @ Choice Specs
EVs: 148 HP / 252 Special Attack / 108 Speed
Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Flash Cannon

Magnezone is a great addition to your team because of it's immunity to Sandstorm and adds scouter with Volt Switch, which comes from a 130 base Special Attack stat complimented by Choice Specs. With Magnezone, you are able to check rain teams even more effectively, which is great alongside Jellicent. Also, like I stated before, it obliterates Skarmory and Steel-types trying to cause trouble.

Hope I helped.

 

[damien50]

@Shining Latios
Both the builds are nice but my whole problem since day one has been I'm possibly gimmicky or my play style is just bad. I tried your suggestions and while they worked to an extent I found Magnezone lacking in what I needed. My weakest links are Gengar, Landorous(switched salamence), and Forretress. I love the way I use Ttar and Slowbro together, sponging hits off each other while crippling and stalling to some extent. It becomes a problem when Gengar, Landorous, or Forretress show up.

I was thinking of

Forretress @Occa Berry
EVs:252 HP/ 252 Def
Nature:Unsure
Moves:
-Rapid spin
-Explosion
-Stealth Rock
-Toxic Spikes

From what I've expirienced a lot of teams are running more steel and flying/levitating types and at least getting stealth rock out helps me greatly. The problem however is that Tspikes can be pretty useless because if the opponents don't touch the ground or are steel typing, I have a wasted move slot. Otherwise I find this set pretty solid because common switch ins that would 2HKO me, with the berry give me one more move to explode or spin if possible, where the fire hit would normally obliterate me if I've already been hit before.

With your suggestions, Scizor and Landorous actually became very annoying with heatran even annoying me to the point I couldn't take it. I see that with a core of Terrakion/Tyranitar/Slowbro I can sweep and cripple without having to revenge kill solely because of Regenerator on Slowbro and that what he can't take Tyranitar can and when I'm lucky, letting Terrakion get a darkness hit makes Justified so very worth it.

Most teams run a ice move to the extent that it cripples Landorous and Salamence greatly or sweeps them. While Gliscor is no problem with the Jellicent build @Shining Latios gave, I'm left with two spots for two mons that I don't really want choiced but shouldn't need to set up beforehand. With Jellicent/Ttar/Slowbro/Terrakion I have a huge weakness to grass but finding two mons that have enough power/speed or bulk to sweep without getting 2HKOed is the difficult part. So I'm considering...

Volcarona @ Leftovers
EVs: 100 HP / 252 Spd / 152 SpD
Moves:
-Roost
-Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
-Hidden Power Fighting/Ice/Hurricane?

I ran something like this before and Volcarona doesn't need much setting up, sometimes none and having some SpD bulk will be nice after a set up but with water and rock being the major weaknesses, Ttar and Slowbro can cover it.

The last question I'll be facing is do I use Sand Stream to my advantage or do I go for a mon with a priority move for revenge kills but compliments my team in the aspect that it won't die to an EQ/Grass/Ice move. I'd appreciate any suggestions anyone could give me and I want to thank everyone.

EDIT: Forgot how annoying rain teams are. A killer that can resist the common threats in rain teams while doing decent damage OR " Sand Stream to my advantage or do I go for a mon with a priority move for revenge kills but compliments my team in the aspect that it won't die to an EQ/Grass/Ice move"

@Shining Latios
I fell in love with the Jellicent build you provided

@NWO
I tried a lot of variations of Landorous but the higher I got in the tier the more they were ready to kill him.

@Ced
I dropped Gengar completely

@pwnage
Thank you for the format help

 

[CedOmega]

I suggest VoltSwitch>Explosion on the above Forrtress set. More often when it is out, the opponent switches to a Ghost type should they have hazards up. Consequently, you'd lose both your spinner & further support w/ Explosion. Giving Forrtress VoltSwitch both avoids this and allows it to scout Jellicent.

Hope it helps.

 

[King of Blades]

Hi!

While looking at this team, I immediately see a nitpick to make on forretress's moveset. Why are you running toxic spikes on him? The only pokemon on your team capable of taking good advantage of toxic spikes is jellicent, who already has toxic. I would suggest running spikes or gyro ball in place of toxic spikes. Spikes can open the door for a salamence or terrakion sweep, especially if you get three layers down. Gyro ball is great if you find you're having problems with ultra-fast physical sweepers such as +1 haxorus and scarf terrakion. If you choose gyro ball over spikes, then you should set forretress's speed IV to 0 and make it a relaxed nature.

I would also suggest running red card on forretress. If forretress is at full health this is a good way to phase out a pokemon who has attained numerous boosts. Use the ability sturdy so you don't get 1hkoed, and don't try it on mold breaker haxorus if he has accumulated enough boosts.

If you think you have a weakness to stall after this, you don't have a much greater weakness. If you play more conservatively with jellicent and focus on poisoning key stallers, stall teams shouldn't be too bad.

I also agree with New World Order that reuniclus is a threat to this team. The suggestions he provided of using chople berry and crunch over leftovers and pursuit should help the problem.


Also, don't use the volcarona.


Also, I wish you would edit your original post by changing the pokemon in your RMT with the new pokemon you have accepted from previous raters. I had to read all the other posts to figure out what changes you made, and I'm still not 100% sure.
I am rating your team under the assumption that you have the following pokemon:

Tyranitar
Terrakion
Salamence
Magnezone
Jellicent
Forretress

Please tell me if I'm wrong. If I am, I will edit this post with a more accurate team rate.

 

[Keramory]

your Gengar is wierd