SPOILERS! Mysteries and Conspiracies of Pokemon

[Pikachu315111]

Why is the Poke Flute necessary? There doesn't really seem to be much preventing you from fighting Snorlax without waking it up. Pokemon can be caught while sleeping, and attacked too - hell, Snorlax itself is prone to going back to sleep mid fight.

natural sleep: impervious to attack, problem
battle sleep: it's fine

Hmm, I'm sure R_N is joking but maybe there is something to that. Snorlax sleeps a lot, which means it would leave itself vulnerable all the time. Whenever Snorlax enters into a deep comatose-like sleep after having consumed a lot of food, its body may undergo a hibernated state where its muscles stiffen & possibly decrease its metabolism (& maybe external body heat) to make it more durable be it to environmental factors or something attacking it; it essentially becomes more like an object than a Pokemon, at least by the Poke Ball's recognition program it does.

"Can't people just go around/over it"? Yes, yes they can. For the player character, honestly, there's really should be nothing stopping them from just climbing over Snorlax and find enough space to squeeze around it. Of course that sort of thinking also can be applied to other things like the small cliffs you can jump down from, cuttable trees, smashable rocks, etc.. It could be the player character may be looking for a more permanent solution that will allow everyone a chance to pass through rather then just them, at least when it comes to Snorlax (not everyone is a nimble as a kid, also land vehicles aren't able to pass through like ones used for deliveries or mail).

Another question that is raised by Johto is that you don't need the PokeFlute to wake up Snorlax, a recorded tune played from the PokeGear is also enough to wake it up. Are you telling me the various tool devices we get throughout the games can't connect to some kind of service where we can download a PokeFlute tune (especially since its a reusable Awakening meaning once you have it you don't ever need to buy Awakenings again, at least when it's an item for some reason you can't use the recording version in battle)?

 

[Blue glass]

(especially since its a reusable Awakening meaning once you have it you don't ever need to buy Awakenings again, at least when it's an item for some reason you can't use the recording version in battle)?

Poké flute can be used in battle (at least in RBY, FireRed and LeafGreen), it even awakes the opponent mon if it is sleeping. This also raises the question: why can't the player use an awakening on Snorlax? It doesn't work on hibernation sleep appearantly.

 

[Bakugames]

The real reason is that the protag is canonically stupid and doesn't know any of this

 

[R_N]

The real reason is that the protag is canonically stupid and doesn't know any of this

If I were the protagonist I would simply google pokeflute.wav

 

[Bug Maniac Aydon]

If I were the protagonist I would simply google pokeflute.wav

Now that's a catchy tune!

I was gonna say something about the government doing something about a thousand pound bear blocking the road from 2 important cities (I guess Lavender is just a town, so it's not as important?) but it doesn't do anything about the mafia occupying the economic center of the region, so I guess that's why. also my supposed solution of using construction equipment would probably fucking kill it

 

[Bakugames]

Does pokemon even have a government? I know it's not something that'd be showcased in the games, but even considered if you expand their society it always felt like a solarpunk almost-utopia where people just govern themselves and it doesn't turn into shit 80% of the time

 

[Bug Maniac Aydon]

Does pokemon even have a government? I know it's not something that'd be showcased in the games, but even considered if you expand their society it always felt like a solarpunk almost-utopia where people just govern themselves and it doesn't turn into shit 80% of the time

Well, there are police and healthcare for pokemon is entirely free, so there has to be some sort of governing body, right?

 

[R_N]

We have talked about this in this very thread before I think.

It's one of those things that probably does properly exist it's just irrelevant for the story so it gets phased out like how there's probably more cities in a "real" region and those cities would have more people and houses than we get to see, stuff like that.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

Does pokemon even have a government? I know it's not something that'd be showcased in the games, but even considered if you expand their society it always felt like a solarpunk almost-utopia where people just govern themselves and it doesn't turn into shit 80% of the time

As in the real world, the exact style and method of governance probably varies from place to place. Various cities have mayors, and Gym Leaders/Elite Four members/the Champion appear to have some degree of political clout in several regions - being one of the strongest Pokemon trainers in a world full of wild Gyarados and suchlike will probably do that for you. Snattle (the guy in my avatar) states that his goal is to be installed as the Orre region's governor. In the anime we've met royalty and aristocracy but iirc in the games there are no extant royalties.

The various regions are probably self-governing to a large degree, but I'd imagine that any borders and political divisions largely mimic real-world ones. Kalos is France, Galar is Britain, the various Japanese regions seem to be part of one larger whole. Unova, Orre, and Alola I imagine to be states in a larger PokeUSA. Pokemon Centres are presumably government-funded (although someone pointed out that, in regions where the Pokecentres and Marts are combined, they might not be). The anime and manga are a lot more explicit that the Pokemon Association is a large central governing body (almost certainly government-backed) that regulates and oversees most Pokemon-related matters (like tournaments, who gets to be a gym leader, party size, etc). It's likely that it has multiple divisions, explaining why the rules are slightly different from region to region. So the PA regulates Pokemon legislation while the government is responsible for everything else but there's probably some overlap when it comes to things like hunting and conservation laws.

As for the utopia part, I think this quote from Masuda actually reveals quite a bit (the full interview is worth a read):

"We actually don't think of the world of Pokémon as Earth. If we were to do that, we would kind of be limited by what we could do. By thinking about how physical objects work on Earth and how various elements work on Earth, we would kind of be limited to that if we thought of it as Earth. We think of it as a place that is really similar to Earth but is a different planet of its own with people in it who may be similar to people on Earth, but they have different values so they care about different things. It's the type of place, the Pokémon world, where problems we face on Earth just wouldn't happen. There wouldn't be global warming, water shortages, or anything like that. It's a world where the people in it really want to work together with each other. Their value system is such where they would prefer to work together and eliminate these problems rather than feud."

 

[Celever]

There are a few instances of Government within various Pokémon regions, most notably, at least in the main series games, in Alola. Kahunas are chosen by the Island Guardians to protect life on that island, including the people of it. That’s why Kahunas have responsibilities like giving young people starters and welcoming the player character and their family to their new community. It’s a form of Divine Right, not democracy, but it’s still clearly a system of Government.

Orre is fairly anarchic but most towns and cities have a leader in their own rights. Phenac City has a mayor who is implied to be democratically elected, or at least highly approved of by its residents; The Under is governed by Venus through a cult of personality; Pyrite Town is between these two states, as it’s a plot point that Pyrite Town was recently overtaken by ruffians (Miror B.), but before that Duking was its leader.

Nowadays I think region is outdated terminology. I agree the first 4 regions are probably within the same polity, but thereafter every region seems more like its own polity, so country would be a better term than region.

 

[TMan87]

As in the real world, the exact style and method of governance probably varies from place to place. Various cities have mayors, and Gym Leaders/Elite Four members/the Champion appear to have some degree of political clout in several regions - being one of the strongest Pokemon trainers in a world full of wild Gyarados and suchlike will probably do that for you. Snattle (the guy in my avatar) states that his goal is to be installed as the Orre region's governor. In the anime we've met royalty and aristocracy but iirc in the games there are no extant royalties.

We've seen at least descendants of royal families, though what power they hold exactly is debatable: Acerola in Alola and these two weird guys in Sword and Shield, the ones with the extravagants haircuts.
Acerola herself is a Trial Captain, later upgraded to E4 member, so it's hard to tell whether the power she holds over the region comes from her lineage or battling skill.

 

[R_N]

We've seen at least descendants of royal families, though what power they hold exactly is debatable: Acerola in Alola and these two weird guys in Sword and Shield, the ones with the extravagants haircuts.
Acerola herself is a Trial Captain, later upgraded to E4 member, so it's hard to tell whether the power she holds over the region comes from her lineage or battling skill.

Considering Acerola's aesthetic it definitely seems like the Royal Family isn't really a thing anymore and likely got her Trial Captain position just through her own power.

And she got the E4 position since they were basically interviewing any major trainer in (or formerly in, hi Kahili) the region for it.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

And she got the E4 position since they were basically interviewing any major trainer in (or formerly in, hi Kahili) the region for it.

I may be mistaken but I thought when Kukui was creating the League he prioritized getting the Kahunas, at least in SM, to serve as his Elite Four, which is why Hala and Olivia served the position, and he tried to get Nanu but he turned down the position under the premise that he had no obligation to serve that role, and Poni was left with no Kahuna for a while and canonically Hapu only recently achieved the Kahuna position in Poni and Kukui may not have known that during his time creating the League, so he called Kahili over since she was the previous Island Challenge Champion.

I can't say what happened in USUM though since Hala doesn't serve the role of an E4 in USUM and instead Molayne does since he and Kukui are good friends.

 

[R_N]

I may be mistaken but I thought when Kukui was creating the League he prioritized getting the Kahunas, at least in SM, to serve as his Elite Four, which is why Hala and Olivia served the position, and he tried to get Nanu but he turned down the position under the premise that he had no obligation to serve that role, and Poni was left with no Kahuna for a while and canonically Hapu only recently achieved the Kahuna position in Poni and Kukui may not have known that during his time creating the League, so he called Kahili over since she was the previous Island Challenge Champion.

I can't say what happened in USUM though since Hala doesn't serve the role of an E4 in USUM and instead Molayne does since he and Kukui are good friends.

Double checking the quotes it seems I mixed up this quote

"We'll get everybody who's finished their island challenges, yeah, and up there on the peak of Mount Lanakila, they'll battle against the kahunas to become the island challenge champion! I

You're right the intent was origianlly fight the kahunas on Lanakila. I mixed it up with the idea of bringing everyone when it just meant "upgrading how the challenge currentl worked" (Kahili was a special request likely done since Hapu wasn't really available like you said).

I don't think Hala gives a reason in USUM, guessing he just decided to remain Kahuna, then Kukui called on Molayne after he turned him down.


Anyway in that case Acerola being basically Nanu's bestie probably volunteered and Nanu went "yeah sure great she's perfect later" and Kukui just went with it.

 

[Sonikku A]

As in the real world, the exact style and method of governance probably varies from place to place. Various cities have mayors, and Gym Leaders/Elite Four members/the Champion appear to have some degree of political clout in several regions - being one of the strongest Pokemon trainers in a world full of wild Gyarados and suchlike will probably do that for you. Snattle (the guy in my avatar) states that his goal is to be installed as the Orre region's governor. In the anime we've met royalty and aristocracy but iirc in the games there are no extant royalties.

The various regions are probably self-governing to a large degree, but I'd imagine that any borders and political divisions largely mimic real-world ones. Kalos is France, Galar is Britain, the various Japanese regions seem to be part of one larger whole. Unova, Orre, and Alola I imagine to be states in a larger PokeUSA. Pokemon Centres are presumably government-funded (although someone pointed out that, in regions where the Pokecentres and Marts are combined, they might not be). The anime and manga are a lot more explicit that the Pokemon Association is a large central governing body (almost certainly government-backed) that regulates and oversees most Pokemon-related matters (like tournaments, who gets to be a gym leader, party size, etc). It's likely that it has multiple divisions, explaining why the rules are slightly different from region to region. So the PA regulates Pokemon legislation while the government is responsible for everything else but there's probably some overlap when it comes to things like hunting and conservation laws.

As for the utopia part, I think this quote from Masuda actually reveals quite a bit (the full interview is worth a read):

"We actually don't think of the world of Pokémon as Earth. If we were to do that, we would kind of be limited by what we could do. By thinking about how physical objects work on Earth and how various elements work on Earth, we would kind of be limited to that if we thought of it as Earth. We think of it as a place that is really similar to Earth but is a different planet of its own with people in it who may be similar to people on Earth, but they have different values so they care about different things. It's the type of place, the Pokémon world, where problems we face on Earth just wouldn't happen. There wouldn't be global warming, water shortages, or anything like that. It's a world where the people in it really want to work together with each other. Their value system is such where they would prefer to work together and eliminate these problems rather than feud."

Also Matsuda: casually ignores the dev lore for Gen 1 Earth relations

 

[R_N]

Also Matsuda: casually ignores the dev lore for Gen 1 Earth relations

Even with the early days of the franchise (which he was a part of and I imagine anyone involved in the company by 2016 would give a similar answer incidentally) he's still not necssarily wrong: it was definitely meant to be Earth, but a different Earth if only because while all the other countries exist in various identifable forms the nation of Japan was wildly different (especially with the original set up for GS). Just most of the world building was based around the Pokemon at a very summarized level.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

Also Matsuda: casually ignores the dev lore for Gen 1 Earth relations

Earth drift is in effect here

 

[Bug Maniac Aydon]

Do you think the tochusako/Parasect relationship could be considered in a way symbiotic and not Parasitic?

Parasect and Paras alone aren't very strong. They're relatively small things with claws, which would probably be easy to pick off by birds or cave animals. With a mushroom, though, even though they're sucked of nutrient and controlled, they become harder to kill because they have dehabilitating spores to keep things away.

Also, does Parasect use Mega Drain with the bug or the mushroom?

 

[R_N]

Do you think the tochusako/Parasect relationship could be considered in a way symbiotic and not Parasitic?

Parasect and Paras alone aren't very strong. They're relatively small things with claws, which would probably be easy to pick off by birds or cave animals. With a mushroom, though, even though they're sucked of nutrient and controlled, they become harder to kill because they have dehabilitating spores to keep things away.

Also, does Parasect use Mega Drain with the bug or the mushroom?

All the dex entries sure make it sound like the bug is just a husk that carries out commands so I'm really not seeing this as symbiotic

 

[Celever]

Do you think the tochusako/Parasect relationship could be considered in a way symbiotic and not Parasitic?

Parasect and Paras alone aren't very strong. They're relatively small things with claws, which would probably be easy to pick off by birds or cave animals. With a mushroom, though, even though they're sucked of nutrient and controlled, they become harder to kill because they have dehabilitating spores to keep things away.

Also, does Parasect use Mega Drain with the bug or the mushroom?

All the dex entries sure make it sound like the bug is just a husk that carries out commands so I'm really not seeing this as symbiotic

To add onto this, one of Parasect’s dex entries notes that the mushrooms decide when to make the bug procreate, in order to spread spores on its egg and then kill its host. There’s no way killing the host because all of its nutrients have been used up can be deemed symbiotic.

I do see what you mean about the spores making the bug harder to kill, but when the bug has no cognitive ability of its own that doesn’t mean anything. The mushrooms both get nutrients AND survivability from the bug because they gain mobility and huge claws; the bug gets neither.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Of course the question now becomes can there be a Paras that isn't affected by the fungus? Like it's noted the mushrooms are harvested to make herbal medicine and in the first season of the anime we see Paras removing their mushrooms and planting them (though that could be just early adaptation weirdness). And it feels odd that a trainer who becomes connected to their Paras is just okay with it then having its mind taken over, you'd think some trainers would object to that (and even if they don't evolve Paras the mushrooms are still controlling its behavior somewhat and taking most of the nutrition according to the dex).

I can only think that, for the normal variant, that sadly the bug part of Paras is doomed to always be infected and eventually become a zombie husk. Would not surprise me if the mushrooms have by now affected its reproduction process so that a Paras Egg cannot hatch unless its been doused in spores. I'm also going to assume Paras' back is just covered in spores and has hidden parts of it containing spores so that, even if the visible mushrooms are removed, it'll always grow back (heck, who knows if it doesn't have some internal mushrooms, maybe has some on its brain like a Last Of Us zombie).

But, with Regional Variants, even if the normal Paras species is doomed, maybe there's a variant out there that has either a more symbiotic relationship or has become immune to the takeover and now it cultivates the mushrooms for the bug's sole benefit.

 

[Nokocchi]

Of course the question now becomes can there be a Paras that isn't affected by the fungus? L

Reminds me how the 1997 Gold and Silver beta had a Paras pre-evolution, it was pure Bug and rode on a mushroom instead of having a mushroom grow out of its back.

 

[Bug Maniac Aydon]

Reminds me how the 1997 Gold and Silver beta had a Paras pre-evolution, it was pure Bug and rode on a mushroom instead of having a mushroom grow out of its back.

I was gonna say this but I wasn't sure if it was super releveant so

 

[qtrx]

​

I am sure most of you are familiar with the cryptic Braille engravings of the Sealed Chamber, alluding to the frightening power of the Regis; also included are instructions for undoing the seal, which involve Relicanth and Wailord. As to why those two Pokemon in particular, many have noted a connection in their real-world counterparts; the coelacanth represents the earliest migrations of vertebrates from sea to land, while cetaceans are mammals that have returned to inhabit the ocean. Most explanations on the internet conclude that the choice of Pokemon here is intended to tie into the themes of Ruby and Sapphire.

While these analyses are reasonable I believe they stopped one step short of discovering the whole picture. The instruction is placed following the story of the Sealed Chamber inhabitants because it actually alludes to their ultimate fate. Recall that according to the inscriptions these people lived there "thanks to the powerful Pokemon living alongside [them]".

Now I don't think it is feasible or desirable for humans to permanently reside in an underwater cavern. One could suppose they have harnessed the power of the Regis (perhaps Regigigas, even, which is known to form continents) to raise land out of the ocean, and built a cavern as their new home; this is what Relicanth refers to. From there we could easily deduce what happened next, represented by Wailord; once the power of the legendary Pokemon was sealed, the cave returned to where it may be found today, submerged deep beneath the rapid currents of Route 134.

​

 

[Sonikku A]

​

I am sure most of you are familiar with the cryptic Braille engravings of the Sealed Chamber, alluding to the frightening power of the Regis; also included are instructions for undoing the seal, which involve Relicanth and Wailord. As to why those two Pokemon in particular, many have noted a connection in their real-world counterparts; the coelacanth represents the earliest migrations of vertebrates from sea to land, while cetaceans are mammals that have returned to inhabit the ocean. Most explanations on the internet conclude that the choice of Pokemon here is intended to tie into the themes of Ruby and Sapphire.

While these analyses are reasonable I believe they stopped one step short of discovering the whole picture. The instruction is placed following the story of the Sealed Chamber inhabitants because it actually alludes to their ultimate fate. Recall that according to the inscriptions these people lived there "thanks to the powerful Pokemon living alongside [them]".

Now I don't think it is feasible or desirable for humans to permanently reside in an underwater cavern. One could suppose they have harnessed the power of the Regis (perhaps Regigigas, even, which is known to form continents) to raise land out of the ocean, and built a cavern as their new home; this is what Relicanth refers to. From there we could easily deduce what happened next, represented by Wailord; once the power of the legendary Pokemon was sealed, the cave returned to where it may be found today, submerged deep beneath the rapid currents of Route 134.

​

Meanwhile I think it's Nuclear war allegory
Where the people in the cave were bomb shelter survivors, while Wailord is the Fat Man bomber with Relicanth torpedos/warheads. The initial Regis Represent THO (a nuclear compound) and the locations of the bombings since Hoenn is based on Kyushu. In RS dev, Project Numo was happening in Japan to utilize Nuclear power, and many were concerned
The other Regis interestingly still support this theory. Regigigas is located in the Hokkaido WW2 memorial, the Galar Titans are notably in a region that's anti nuclear (Scotland), which supported Japan mid SwSh dev regarding anti nuclear stance

It's a pretty grim theory not confirmed, though a lot is weirdly coincidental