That would make sense. Its tail is somewhat of a holdover from when it was related to fellow Psychic-type Wobbuffet.
Holdover's probably not the right word, but I don't really know what is.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
SPOILERS! Mysteries and Conspiracies of Pokemon
- Thread starter stage7_4
- Start date
Holdover's probably not the right word, but I don't really know what is.
I think that's the intended interpretation considering its a normal giraffe and a weirdo in the back. By Design it's clearly meant to reference its weird dual typing; some of the dex entries mention its psychic power in the back
And of course the beta design, from when it was half dark type, made this even more obvious
not quite right, probably
Twinz eventually became Wobbuffet but that was only after some fairly extensive reworkings. They were so bizarrely married to this Pokemon for so long...
Rough timeline is
Twinz as two weird ghosts but actually its still normal/dark -> Girafarig, with the evil looking mirrored back half
They kept this concept for like 2 years just refining the sprite then by approximately April 1999 they decided to (1) make it a Ghost type, (2) make girafarig Normal/Ghost and (3) add a third stage to this line
By June, at the very least, Girafarig had its final design, the goofy second head now firmly a chain chomp.
In July they scrapped the third stage and briefly reworked Twinz into what's best described as a baby girafarig where the tail was just a big eye. It's also possible that this design had been in the design stages before this, we only have the back sprite, but we only have a reference
By August it was now Normal/Psychic internally and still referred to as Tsuinzu & evolved (Likely the data pertaining to Girafarig was left overs from tje July rework) but was in the process of being scrapped entirely in favor of Wobbuffet, who only had the faintest of scratch placeholder art implemented (though seemingly had the dex number set and dex entry by this point).
Wobbuffet probably has that "second tail" as a reference to Twinz (and even then it could be coincidental because we have some wildly different wobbuffet scratch arts without it) than Girafarig having the goofy tail as a reference to its prior realtion to what would become Wobbuffet, in other words.
Ever realize that Politoed and Pelipper have Drizzle and Poliwag/Poliwhirl and Wingull don’t, even when at least one NFE Pokémon has one of the rest of the weather-summoning abilities? My thinking is that GF knows Rain is the strongest of the weathers, so they’ve restricted Rain to fully-evolved Pokémon so that players don’t break the early-game with weather shenanigans, which is supported by how the weather-summoning NFEs - at least with their hidden abilities - are usually found later in the game and evolve late. That, or they want the other weathers to stand a chance in LC.
Gamefreak doesn't care about niche Smogon metagames like Little Cup. Any changes that seem to effect Smogon more than VGC are more for wifi battle singles.
Before you mention that Little Cup was a thing in Stadium 2, the Stadium games were not made by Game Freak(HAL Laboratory made them), which is why the formats from it(and things exclusively from them like an actual built-in mechanic for Sleep and Freeze clauses) never appeared in the main series proper.
I think they lack Ice typing in how the Pokemon itself is built because the lore says they couldn't survive the harsh environments in Hisui, which is what resulted in them "dying" and becoming Ghost Types from lingering spirits instead. Unlike Vulpix which adapted, or Frosslass which is based on an Ice Spirit Yokai, it's a confirmed point that Hisuian Zorua/Zoroark are like this because they did NOT suit Cold environments, something in line with the markings resembling Frostbite (not something an Ice-natured creature would line up with).
Assuming the Normal typing isn't just a random addition to get a heavily request type-combo, my theory is that it's a deconstruction on the Japanese "Evil" Type name the original Dark-Typing had. The original Zorua was described as more Timid and Mischievous than outright malicious, yet they were driven out all the same by others resulting in the mass passings that became Hisuian Zorua, which is now a more uneasy and Vengeful Pokemon by comparison. Everyone thought it was Evil before, but now that it is more intent on inflicting active harm out of revenge, there's the question of how evil is retribution for excessive/undeserved suffering? Like, is Hisuian Zoroark Malevolent, or simply dangerous? Maybe there's not an intended answer on that, but the question of it is why Zorua lost the "Evil" Dark-typing in the shift.
In the case of Politoed's line, I think that was just a case of differentiating the two Evolutions since Poliwag and Poliwhirl were sort of "non-commital" pre-evolution designs while there was a clear Dimorphism between Poliwrath as a hands-on Brawler and Politoed as the more tricksy/funny Frog design. So something like summoning its own Rain to mess with opponents or as a protection mechanism by enabling strong company is more in-line once it's committed to the less direct Evolution.
For Pelipper, it only got Drizzle well after Weather abilities became non-permanent Weather, and the ability was introduced in Alola, a region with very hot weather but also abundant Water. My theory is that Pelipper creates a faux-Rain by gathering an enormous amount of Water in its bill/pouch (something Wingull does not possess) and releasing it on entry. The water falling for several turns (whether literal falling or Pelipper somehow making it a proper rain cloud) then comprises the Weather for a while.
I think Poliwag & Poliwhirl didnt get Drizzle just because Politoed is an offshoot and makes more sense for Wag -> Whirl -> Wrath to have Swift Swim and then said offshoot instead gets something different.
If Drought had gone to say....Bellossom, I think it would work about the same. Oddish would still get Run Away, Gloom would get Stench, Vileplume Effect Spore and Bellossom, the designated offshoot, Drought.
Gigalith works similarly, actually. Roggenrola & Boldore get a different ability, then Gigalith is the one with Sand Stream. And hey Roggenrola is also there on island one and is a POkemon more likely to be placed early.
On the other hand...Vanilluxe is the weirder one on that end. It works just like Pelipper & Gigalith, but you're never going to see Vanillite as an early game encounter (Wild Area is an outlier and should not be counted) So maybe the simpler explanation for this trio, who all got the ability added to their line at the same time in gen 7, is that they wanted the ability to have some "finality" to it so only the final step of thel ine gets it. If Drought hadn't gone to Torkoal and instead went to idk Magcargo I bet it'd work in the same way.
Meanwhile Vulpix-A & Amaura side step this because they were hidden abilities.
If Drought had gone to say....Bellossom, I think it would work about the same. Oddish would still get Run Away, Gloom would get Stench, Vileplume Effect Spore and Bellossom, the designated offshoot, Drought.
A pretty good idea. Wingull in particular is always put in pretty common spots and Gen 7 in particular its basically the second route. And you don't encounter weather at all (iirc) until some ways into the second island. By the time Pelipper start running amok you've been well aware of how weather works.
Gigalith works similarly, actually. Roggenrola & Boldore get a different ability, then Gigalith is the one with Sand Stream. And hey Roggenrola is also there on island one and is a POkemon more likely to be placed early.
On the other hand...Vanilluxe is the weirder one on that end. It works just like Pelipper & Gigalith, but you're never going to see Vanillite as an early game encounter (Wild Area is an outlier and should not be counted) So maybe the simpler explanation for this trio, who all got the ability added to their line at the same time in gen 7, is that they wanted the ability to have some "finality" to it so only the final step of thel ine gets it. If Drought hadn't gone to Torkoal and instead went to idk Magcargo I bet it'd work in the same way.
Meanwhile Vulpix-A & Amaura side step this because they were hidden abilities.
So... is Snap set in the anime continuity? I think Todd appeared in the anime first, and Oak's portrayal is clearly based on that one, but I don't think there's any clear evidence one way or the other. I used to imagine that all the spinoffs with humans were set in the same continuity as the main series, but then in Gen 6 they threw the timeline out of the window and now there's more than one gameverse.
I imagine Snap, and all the spin offs really, are just its own thing. It's drawing on stuff from the anime, but is not literally set in the anime's same continuity.
Likewise I'd be hard pressed to consider the Orre games in the same continuity as Snap as Ranger as Trozei as etc etc etc as the main series.
I'd go further and say that everything is it's own universe until proven otherwise. Anime/Generations/Manga are all obviously one universe each, and B2W2 is clearly tied to BW, but I'd say any given game is it's own storyline unless it specifically says it follows a previous game. Even then, there's going to be mess unless you assume the previous games' story to be vague in certain respects. Like, we have RG/RB/Y/FRLG/LGPE all set in Kanto, which of those specifically does GS, C, or HGSS follow? And then Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald/OR/AS all have a different story, so which set of team bosses showed up in Rainbow Rocket?
I'm not saying those problems are unsolvable, but I think it's far easier to just treat each work of media as happening in a bunch of similar timelines that have numerous differences and not stress trying to figure out which particular timelines match up.
QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
This. I was going to raise the question whether GSC (and by extension HGSS) follows Yellow canon or RBG canon, but really it's a moot issue.
Because the evidence goes both ways. It's implied in various ways that the Red we battle in GSC is the Red from RB - but he has all three Kanto starters, and his Pikachu is the highest-levelled mon, which on NPCs always indicates that it's the starter/signature. But Blue has his RB team instead of his Yellow one. HGSS muddies the waters even further by having Red's Pikachu hold a Light Ball, like the one from Yellow does if traded into Gen II, and having his starters know the elemental Hyper Beams from FRLG.
The simple answer is that GSC is its own continuity. It follows the games from Gen I in broad strokes, but it's not specifically beholden to RB or Yellow. It doesn't follow any game directly, any more than other games do.
Similar examples are Steven's ambiguous reference to the Hoenn player character (is it Brendan? Is it May? Is it RS? Is it Emerald?) and referring to himself as Hoenn's Champion. Cynthia's reference to Platinum in BW is pretty explicit, though probably was done because it's easier/neater than referencing both Dialga and Palkia.
I've always thought of each game as its own parallel universe though. Like, not only are Red and Blue parallel universes, but my specific save file on Red is a parallel universe to your save file. Though the games often try to act like we all share one universe - record mixing in RSE will make NPCs talk about the other player as if they're running round Hoenn and you just never meet them, unless you arrange a link trade/battle. Which is a little weird but sort of works in context.
It's probably cleaner to just assume that the events of the games all happen in the same universe unless stated otherwise (ie ORAS is expressly a different continuity, Let's Go pretty much as to be, etc), but the finer details are purposely left vague. All that really matters for the Johto games is that the actual plot from RB happened, which is the same in all games. Red's team feels more likeaa reference to Gen 1 as a whole and Blue tweaks his team anyway. and both of those are fine because whatever, they can catch different Pokemon and it doesnt affect that the events happened. And most of the other. Which of RSE doesnt super matter because Magma & Aqua both still want to mess with the world and both come out of the experience goign "well, this sucked. Maybe we shouldn't do this actually" and its easy to fudge canon enough to not mention who summoned what; or do what ORAS did and grab 2 entirely separate Archie & Maxie from separate universes that themselves
Though if we're thinking too hard about canon anyway, it's fun to look at ORAS and how it kind of sets up some stuff from Emerald as something that will still happen like Wallace becoming Champion. So even in a RS theoretical continuity you could still get Wallace & Steven as Champions because hell, why not, am i right? If it could happened in ORAS maybe it happens in RS! you dont know!
And Platinum seems to be somethign they really like referencing. Cynthia mentions it in passing, and while Cyrus is clearly from a DP world he's still getting ganked by Giratina, and then LA is pretty much one very long and somewhat sudden prologue to Platinum. Even BDSP, which ............ sigh....obviously didn't do Platinum.........still seemed to set the weird Ramans Park legend battles in the Distortion worlds and had a giratina battle to at least reference it.
Honestly I feel like even now, Platinum is always the canon one lol.
Though if we're thinking too hard about canon anyway, it's fun to look at ORAS and how it kind of sets up some stuff from Emerald as something that will still happen like Wallace becoming Champion. So even in a RS theoretical continuity you could still get Wallace & Steven as Champions because hell, why not, am i right? If it could happened in ORAS maybe it happens in RS! you dont know!
And Platinum seems to be somethign they really like referencing. Cynthia mentions it in passing, and while Cyrus is clearly from a DP world he's still getting ganked by Giratina, and then LA is pretty much one very long and somewhat sudden prologue to Platinum. Even BDSP, which ............ sigh....obviously didn't do Platinum.........still seemed to set the weird Ramans Park legend battles in the Distortion worlds and had a giratina battle to at least reference it.
Honestly I feel like even now, Platinum is always the canon one lol.
Canon Line:
Gen I/RBY & FRLG: First off, we already know Let's Go takes place in its own continuity so we can place it side. As for Gen I, a thing which I'm going to believe is that the "default" canon is a mixture of all the games and, as long as nothing conflicts, there's no reason to assume it didn't happen. So, in this case, I think we can take FRLG to be the most "canon" of the Gen I storyline BUT we're going to take the element of Yellow where Red starts out with a Pikachu and gets the other Kanto Starters. "So does that mean Blue got an Eevee in default canon"? Eh, maybe? Honestly Blue's Starter doesn't seem to matter as he never uses the Kanto Starters or Eeveelutions past Gen I. And let's not even get into the status of Green/Leaf...
Gen II/GSC & HGSS: This one is even easier as HGSS includes the Eusine & Suicune subplot from Crystal on top of the additions it made. The only major difference in these games is what order you awaken the Tower Duo, and for canon purposes that doesn't really matter. In fact the knowledge the player even did that would only be known by the player (and the Kimono Girls in HGSS), so that's probably not even noted in canon.
Gen III/RSE & ORAS: AND now we come to our first major canon knot. Before ORAS it would be easy just to say that Emerald was the de facto canon default. In honestly I would still say it is. However that canon now has the additional stuff added in by ORAS such as the clearer goals of the villain teams, Delta Episode, and Mega Evos. So to combine this jumble together: Both Team Aqua & Magma awoke their Legendary, they appeared in Sootopolis to battle, Rayquaza quickly showed up to quell them, one left while the other went to the Cave of Origin and used its Orb to Primal Revert and battle the player, Steven was acting Champion though soon Wallace takes over (though I can see the two swapping the titles every so often and handing it over if the other has something else they want to do for a bit), but before then the Delta Episode occurs. The only major gap in this is which Legendary appeared in the Cave of Origins, but honestly that specific detail doesn't matter and can easily be written around. All that matters is that one of the Legendaries appeared in it and Primal Reverted (heck, if they really want to stretch it, they could have it both went to different inner chambers of the Cave of Origin and that both May and Brendan took on one of them). Oh, yeah, I guess whose child May and Brendan are would also be a major important difference; if anything it seems like Pokemon Masters has chosen Brendan to be Norman's son and May is Birch's daughter. Though that is a very specific piece of information that 99% of the time doesn't come up and if it does can likely be glossed over.
Gen IV/DPPt & BDSP: I think there's no problem with just throwing out BDSP as it's just a SUPER direct copy of DP and Platinum I would consider the canon default for all the story inclusions it has, especially with Giratina and the Distortion World (and that Cyrus captured both Dialga & Palkia). Only major difference not resolved would be who was the role of the player (and child of Johanna) and the other being the Professor's assistant. In Masters its mentioned Dawn is the player (& Johanna's daughter) while Lucas is Professor Rowan's assistance. Though, once again, super specific so most of the time ignored or glossed over.
Gen V/BW & BW2: HAHAHAHAHA! Good luck resolving this! We got two (possibly three) main problems here: N's dragon and the player character (and maybe the player character of BW2). Like, they would have to remain SUPER obtuse and try to change the topic so no questions was asked. "And then N and the other chosen one had their dragons fought, with the chosen one being the victor". "So which dragon belonged to whom and also who was the other chosen on...". "... AND then N left to do some soul searching, the other chosen one went to look for them, and Iris became Champion. Anymore questions? No, good!". Master seems to hint Zekrom was N's dragon & Hilbert was the player in BW (though Master oddly doesn't take a stance whether Nate or Rosa was the player in BW2, aside Rosa having the Snivy family and Nate having a Braviary).
Gen VI/XY: Now at first you'd think it would matter which Legendary was the one Lysandre used, but not really. You can just have it so Lysandre caught both and it took the combined efforts of Calem & Serena to beat him (and it barely matters which one was the player and which was one the Rival as, in terms of canon, both come off pretty equal by the end of things).
Gen VII/SM & USUM: *Low grumbling noise* As MUCH as I would like SM to be the default, most of USUM's story is likely the default here. NOW, I would say there's no reason that SM's Ultra Beast Hunt and USUM's Episode R couldn't have both happened, but USUM's additions pretty much mean that Lusamine never goes Mother Beast (and thus Lillie never leaves to Kanto to help her, instead Gladion leaves just to become stronger). I guess separating my feelings from the Gen VII's story that is the best outcome overall as Lusamine is up and active and no longer crazy, but it's also a bit of a hit to Lillie's character. Now whether Nebby evolved into a Solgaleo or Lunala I think can be wrote around, especially since the Ultra Recon Squad had the other Legendary (actually they have both) so both a Solgaleo and Lunala were present when Necrozma attacked, it absorbed one of them, the other rode the player to them to the Ultra Megalopolis, and the player defeated Ultra Necrozma freeing Nebby. BTW, Masters also seems to have ignored taking a stance, while she does have a Lunala in one of her special outfits its apparently the Cosmog the player got from the Lake of the Moone/Sunne. She mentions Nebby but only says it's with a good friend she trusts... even though both Elio and Selene are on Pasio (and dialogue from Elio seems to suggest her was the player character as he mentions trying to help Lillie and her worrying about them).
Gen VIII/SwSh: Since both the player and Hop use the Hero Wolves to save the day there's really no major canon issue unless you specifically go into (1) what wolf Hop has and (2) the identity of the player. Identity of the player can be easily written around, but Hop's wolf? Will only be an issue if Hop makes an appearance where you battle him.
Gen I/RBY & FRLG: First off, we already know Let's Go takes place in its own continuity so we can place it side. As for Gen I, a thing which I'm going to believe is that the "default" canon is a mixture of all the games and, as long as nothing conflicts, there's no reason to assume it didn't happen. So, in this case, I think we can take FRLG to be the most "canon" of the Gen I storyline BUT we're going to take the element of Yellow where Red starts out with a Pikachu and gets the other Kanto Starters. "So does that mean Blue got an Eevee in default canon"? Eh, maybe? Honestly Blue's Starter doesn't seem to matter as he never uses the Kanto Starters or Eeveelutions past Gen I. And let's not even get into the status of Green/Leaf...
Gen II/GSC & HGSS: This one is even easier as HGSS includes the Eusine & Suicune subplot from Crystal on top of the additions it made. The only major difference in these games is what order you awaken the Tower Duo, and for canon purposes that doesn't really matter. In fact the knowledge the player even did that would only be known by the player (and the Kimono Girls in HGSS), so that's probably not even noted in canon.
Gen III/RSE & ORAS: AND now we come to our first major canon knot. Before ORAS it would be easy just to say that Emerald was the de facto canon default. In honestly I would still say it is. However that canon now has the additional stuff added in by ORAS such as the clearer goals of the villain teams, Delta Episode, and Mega Evos. So to combine this jumble together: Both Team Aqua & Magma awoke their Legendary, they appeared in Sootopolis to battle, Rayquaza quickly showed up to quell them, one left while the other went to the Cave of Origin and used its Orb to Primal Revert and battle the player, Steven was acting Champion though soon Wallace takes over (though I can see the two swapping the titles every so often and handing it over if the other has something else they want to do for a bit), but before then the Delta Episode occurs. The only major gap in this is which Legendary appeared in the Cave of Origins, but honestly that specific detail doesn't matter and can easily be written around. All that matters is that one of the Legendaries appeared in it and Primal Reverted (heck, if they really want to stretch it, they could have it both went to different inner chambers of the Cave of Origin and that both May and Brendan took on one of them). Oh, yeah, I guess whose child May and Brendan are would also be a major important difference; if anything it seems like Pokemon Masters has chosen Brendan to be Norman's son and May is Birch's daughter. Though that is a very specific piece of information that 99% of the time doesn't come up and if it does can likely be glossed over.
Gen IV/DPPt & BDSP: I think there's no problem with just throwing out BDSP as it's just a SUPER direct copy of DP and Platinum I would consider the canon default for all the story inclusions it has, especially with Giratina and the Distortion World (and that Cyrus captured both Dialga & Palkia). Only major difference not resolved would be who was the role of the player (and child of Johanna) and the other being the Professor's assistant. In Masters its mentioned Dawn is the player (& Johanna's daughter) while Lucas is Professor Rowan's assistance. Though, once again, super specific so most of the time ignored or glossed over.
Gen V/BW & BW2: HAHAHAHAHA! Good luck resolving this! We got two (possibly three) main problems here: N's dragon and the player character (and maybe the player character of BW2). Like, they would have to remain SUPER obtuse and try to change the topic so no questions was asked. "And then N and the other chosen one had their dragons fought, with the chosen one being the victor". "So which dragon belonged to whom and also who was the other chosen on...". "... AND then N left to do some soul searching, the other chosen one went to look for them, and Iris became Champion. Anymore questions? No, good!". Master seems to hint Zekrom was N's dragon & Hilbert was the player in BW (though Master oddly doesn't take a stance whether Nate or Rosa was the player in BW2, aside Rosa having the Snivy family and Nate having a Braviary).
Gen VI/XY: Now at first you'd think it would matter which Legendary was the one Lysandre used, but not really. You can just have it so Lysandre caught both and it took the combined efforts of Calem & Serena to beat him (and it barely matters which one was the player and which was one the Rival as, in terms of canon, both come off pretty equal by the end of things).
Gen VII/SM & USUM: *Low grumbling noise* As MUCH as I would like SM to be the default, most of USUM's story is likely the default here. NOW, I would say there's no reason that SM's Ultra Beast Hunt and USUM's Episode R couldn't have both happened, but USUM's additions pretty much mean that Lusamine never goes Mother Beast (and thus Lillie never leaves to Kanto to help her, instead Gladion leaves just to become stronger). I guess separating my feelings from the Gen VII's story that is the best outcome overall as Lusamine is up and active and no longer crazy, but it's also a bit of a hit to Lillie's character. Now whether Nebby evolved into a Solgaleo or Lunala I think can be wrote around, especially since the Ultra Recon Squad had the other Legendary (actually they have both) so both a Solgaleo and Lunala were present when Necrozma attacked, it absorbed one of them, the other rode the player to them to the Ultra Megalopolis, and the player defeated Ultra Necrozma freeing Nebby. BTW, Masters also seems to have ignored taking a stance, while she does have a Lunala in one of her special outfits its apparently the Cosmog the player got from the Lake of the Moone/Sunne. She mentions Nebby but only says it's with a good friend she trusts... even though both Elio and Selene are on Pasio (and dialogue from Elio seems to suggest her was the player character as he mentions trying to help Lillie and her worrying about them).
Gen VIII/SwSh: Since both the player and Hop use the Hero Wolves to save the day there's really no major canon issue unless you specifically go into (1) what wolf Hop has and (2) the identity of the player. Identity of the player can be easily written around, but Hop's wolf? Will only be an issue if Hop makes an appearance where you battle him.
Incidentally Masters has Hop use Zamazenta and Gloria has Zacian. Victor's not in the game.
Not that I would call Masters strict canon to anything necessarily. Canon in the sense that some of the character beats and maybe some misc information is probably canon, less so in terms of the actual things being used and done, you know?
Not that I would call Masters strict canon to anything necessarily. Canon in the sense that some of the character beats and maybe some misc information is probably canon, less so in terms of the actual things being used and done, you know?
I imagine GameFreak is still involved with stuff like this just to make sure characters are "accurate" (since it seems like Masters is more concerned with this than say the anime, which has more leeway even these days), and probably to give the OK to do whatever stuff they get up to in the stories, but probably more along the lines of passing along a character "bible" with here's what they do in the games, here's their general pesronality, here's some extra backstory traits, here's generally how they'd act in some situations and less "hop MUST have zamazenta, specifically"
Yeah, I wasn't even going to get into whether the male or female protag is canon*. IIRC, anime tends to prefer using the female PC as the companion to Ash, male PC as a rival, but the games it feels like the opposite, things are written assuming the PC will be male and then hastily ported to be female without consideration for how that will work.
As I said, it's not that these problems are unsolvable, but it seems like solving them isn't going to do anything. I don't think there's a master timeline for various universes at GF's offices, they just reference things as they see fit, and if that means occasionally referring to events from OR and other times Emerald, they just do so and don't think about it. Trying to make things fit won't actually work because GF doesn't make them fit, so anything you come up with could be Joss'd at any time for no reason.
*Protag is genderqueer, sometimes presents as male, sometimes as female, hence why different NPCs will remember them differently. That solves everything**
**It doesn't
As I said, it's not that these problems are unsolvable, but it seems like solving them isn't going to do anything. I don't think there's a master timeline for various universes at GF's offices, they just reference things as they see fit, and if that means occasionally referring to events from OR and other times Emerald, they just do so and don't think about it. Trying to make things fit won't actually work because GF doesn't make them fit, so anything you come up with could be Joss'd at any time for no reason.
*Protag is genderqueer, sometimes presents as male, sometimes as female, hence why different NPCs will remember them differently. That solves everything**
**It doesn't
Niantic needs to get approval from the Pokemon Company for nearly everything in Pokemon GO, I doubt Masters is much different. e.g., Giving Leon Eternatus/Ice-Rider Calyrex and Cynthia Kommo-o probably required approval.
This got me wondering, and it turns out that aside from the whole multiverse being a plot point and the meta pokemon centre/gameboy NPCs talking about trading, the games have offhandedly addressed the possibility/existence of the other version game in universe a few times.
Gen 1 and 2 didn't really have any big story differences per version like the games afterwards, but in the Johto remakes they did manage to have Mr. Pokemon (via Professor Oak) straight up mention that Groudon and Kyogre only show themselves based on the colour of your soul. I guess they wanted to be straightforward for their first time requiring a legendary from both games to summon a third legendary.
In B/W a son/father in Opelucid City are making a time machine to the past/future to talk to each other and heard about the other version of Opelucid City in "another world", which is where you need to trade a pokemon with Charge from. If you take this random sidequest literally and the man in Black is the descendant of the man in White, then the events of Gen 5 happened in both games but at least a generation later in Black.
Speaking of BW, the old lady only tells you about the relevant Tornadus/Thundurus that shows up, but the kid at the shrine tells you the whole story about both of them causing trouble and how Landorus will come back if both are there, though not how to get the other. After this they ended up just making you read a guide to figure out how to get the bonus legendaries from the random space holes.
In ORAS's postgame, Maxie/Archie reference the real possibility of their being the villains of the same story as a hypothetical but don't really dwell on it.
They also actually let you go to the other game's "reverse world" in Gen 7 where you come out at 6 of the opposite time of day, but all the progress you made happened the exact same way in parallel and you can't even get the other version exclusives out of it, even with an extra Cosmog to show for it. I guess even if you jump into a different universe, you're still a (ultra) sunny or moony trainer in the end.
EDIT: This ties more into the parallel universe thing but the Entralink basically let you visit other people's grey worlds in BW as well.
Last edited:
It all went into the Scythes, and the weight up front has him hunched over to Regular's height
So I was waiting until today to float this just in case something was shown, but....
I think the Pokemon Movies are just kinda...Done?
2020 due to covid had to push the release of its movie to December of that year
2021 was the first year since 1998 without a Pokemon Movie at all. Pretty notable! Again, this was likely due to covid mucking up production; it was probably enough as-is to prioritize the anime and a lot of things just got pushed dwon the line. And we know that they like to go location scouting for the movies and that's hard with, again, covid.
2022, however, is...also seemingly going to be without a movie. June is usually when they release it and, well, I mean. Obviously that ahhhhh that's not happening. And 2022 a lot of anime production has veered "back on track" for movie releases, too, not to mention they could probably have released a Mythic to go with Legends Arceus in that lull between release and SV. And I dunno, I kind of doubt they're going to announce one later this month/early july for release in December (but, even I would admit it would be very funny if that happened after writing all this up)
Could 2023 have a Pokemon Movie? I mean it's possible, certainly they could probably shove in a Mythic if they wanted that way too. Maybe just shift the movies over to an "every once in a while" type deal; it's not like the new movies even synch up with the anime anymore so they're not beholden to anything but "Ash & PIkachu have to be there" + their imaginations.
But I dunno....what if they're just done? There was a steady decline in Pokemon Movie box office numbers (and outside of a few special exceptions the majority of Pokemon movies havent been in theaters abroad in years) until I Choose You and I think Power of Us did a smidge worse than it and Koko was all mucked up by covid anyway. So it's not like it's getting a lto of people out there and in terms of cross-promotion it seems pretty evident they just don't need it. The aniem keeps kicking, the series itself saw huge booms in sales and this last fiscal year had record profits for the franchise as a whole. And while both the SWSH DLC & USUM had Mythic additions if every game (except BDSP :v) is going to have a few new Pokemon anyway those aren't as "needed" to generate hype either; hell Meltan didnt even get a short like Meloetta did.
If they're not needed to keep the franchise as relevant and they're not needed to push new Pokemon and they're not needed for cross-polinate the games and they're not needed for the anime anymore (and, again, they don't even OVERLAP WITH THEM any more...) and not as many people are seeing them....Just seems like the real purpose of the movies kinda arent needed as much these days. I could see them axing them, because why bother?
It'll be interesting to see what 2023 brings, if anything. And then, if there is one, where they go from there. Like will it just go back to yearly movies if there is one, or will they just be one that lands every couple years with a new generation?
I think the Pokemon Movies are just kinda...Done?
2020 due to covid had to push the release of its movie to December of that year
2021 was the first year since 1998 without a Pokemon Movie at all. Pretty notable! Again, this was likely due to covid mucking up production; it was probably enough as-is to prioritize the anime and a lot of things just got pushed dwon the line. And we know that they like to go location scouting for the movies and that's hard with, again, covid.
2022, however, is...also seemingly going to be without a movie. June is usually when they release it and, well, I mean. Obviously that ahhhhh that's not happening. And 2022 a lot of anime production has veered "back on track" for movie releases, too, not to mention they could probably have released a Mythic to go with Legends Arceus in that lull between release and SV. And I dunno, I kind of doubt they're going to announce one later this month/early july for release in December (but, even I would admit it would be very funny if that happened after writing all this up)
Could 2023 have a Pokemon Movie? I mean it's possible, certainly they could probably shove in a Mythic if they wanted that way too. Maybe just shift the movies over to an "every once in a while" type deal; it's not like the new movies even synch up with the anime anymore so they're not beholden to anything but "Ash & PIkachu have to be there" + their imaginations.
But I dunno....what if they're just done? There was a steady decline in Pokemon Movie box office numbers (and outside of a few special exceptions the majority of Pokemon movies havent been in theaters abroad in years) until I Choose You and I think Power of Us did a smidge worse than it and Koko was all mucked up by covid anyway. So it's not like it's getting a lto of people out there and in terms of cross-promotion it seems pretty evident they just don't need it. The aniem keeps kicking, the series itself saw huge booms in sales and this last fiscal year had record profits for the franchise as a whole. And while both the SWSH DLC & USUM had Mythic additions if every game (except BDSP :v) is going to have a few new Pokemon anyway those aren't as "needed" to generate hype either; hell Meltan didnt even get a short like Meloetta did.
If they're not needed to keep the franchise as relevant and they're not needed to push new Pokemon and they're not needed for cross-polinate the games and they're not needed for the anime anymore (and, again, they don't even OVERLAP WITH THEM any more...) and not as many people are seeing them....Just seems like the real purpose of the movies kinda arent needed as much these days. I could see them axing them, because why bother?
It'll be interesting to see what 2023 brings, if anything. And then, if there is one, where they go from there. Like will it just go back to yearly movies if there is one, or will they just be one that lands every couple years with a new generation?
I do agree I think the movies as we knew them, loose tie-ins to the anime, might have finally ended, or at the very least gonna be more uncommon. Like, maybe a Pokemon movie starring Ash will happen every once in a blue moon if there's something notable in the newest batch of games that the anime isn't likely going to cover. But otherwise, they're not really needed anymore, especially now that the anime team have decided to just do whatever which means whatever adventure Ash had in the movies could now just be done in the anime proper (and for much cheaper).
But Pokemon movies as a whole done? Hm, I wouldn't say that quite yet. While not movies, Pokemon has been making a heavy push with special animated shorts and series on their Youtube channel that's been having massive praise. Of course these Youtube specials can't replace what they could be possibly make from theaters. And we also have to factor in the success of Detective Pikachu, a Pokemon movie not tied to the anime. No movies in recently makes me wonder if the Pokemon Company are rethinking their movie strategy. I'm sure they still want to make movies, but sever them from the anime as their individual works are doing far better and if they can do something REALLY special and put it on the big screen that may be the way to go.
Maybe the Pokemon Company should consider putting out the word to directors and animated studios that they're looking for Pokemon movie ideas.