Resource National Dex Metagame Discussion v2

[NotAnimeIris]

Speaking of win-conditions, hazards, pursuit,... and other knickknacks; I want to talk a little bit about Trick Room too.

Trick Room hasn't changed much even after the huge DLC drop. I guess that's just how TR is since its win-con is pretty straight forward: You sneak stuff in, do some stuff. Then you sneak stuff out to sneak other stuff in to kill their stuff. But TR still feels like it gets walled and stalled too easy, even with great wall breaker like Alolan Marowak or Mega Heracross. And I haven't figured out why. Then the DLC dropped and this thing happened:

Please excuse the dramatic entrance but Regidrago was extremely overshadowed by its counterpart when they were released, for obvious reason. But then I look at its ability and signature move and thought to myself: "Man if I could slap a Choice Specs instead of Scarf on this thing, that'll be great". And then BANG! You get it, Trick Room.

Dragon Energy goes brrr

Regidrago @ Choice Specs
Ability: Dragon's Maw
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Dragon Energy
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Pulse
- Ancient Power

TR felt somewhat missing to me because most of the viable TR sweeper are physical. While the special ones don't pack immediate threat, and require a turn to set up. Hatterene can fire some a-okay hits immediately with LO, but its only coverage is Mystical Fire. And things like Heatran sits on it all day.

But now I can fire off a Choice Specs boosted dragon Water Spout, on top of an ability that basically is another Choice Specs for dragons, with zero drawback and perfect accuracy. With TR support and Healing Wish/Lunar Dance to stay 100% healthy; it 2HKO both Blissey and Ferrothorn if they dare switch in, with ease. And almost everything else that takes Dragon Energy neutrally got blasted to oblivion.

Sure, much like Regieleki, its coverage is non-existent. But also much like Regieleki, once the dragon immunities are gone, it rolls over everything. Of course, it requires more work than Regieleki. But that's just how TR is anyway. And I like Regidrago. He looks like a cute little floating Kirby who puts on fake dragon mouths on its arms, because Nitendo said he didn't look tough enough when he was a kid.

 

[Zneon]

Hi people, to spark some discussion in this thread, I want to go over the winners of Dragapult's ban and why its in my opinion a good thing for the National Dex metagame.

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1. Other Offensive Ghost-types

So the main thing that Dragapult's ban does is make other offensive ghosts better since, well, Dragapult was better than all of them by a pretty big margin. Spectrier I thought was completely awful however after using it for a few times and seeing its great performance between Chazm and Pannu in the Semi-finals of the SSNL changed by perspective on it much more. I feel its a genuine offensive threat that can easily snowball teams without a Ghost resist, and I think with Dragapult gone, Pursuit is not as ludicrously good as it would be with it in the tier. Gengar is also a lot better with Dragapult gone because unlike Spectrier, Gengar gives up Spectrier's amazing Speed for actual coverage options, and with it gone I don't think anything other than Spectrier can really give it competition for its role as a NP breaker. Aegislash is a pretty good breaker with SD + Z move which can threaten bulky cores incredibly well, its also an excellent Medicham counter, however its Speed is pretty mediocre its secondary Steel-type leaves it more easily forced out by our offensive Grounds, which are everywhere.

2. Other Dragon Dance sweepers

I'm going to be mentioning these 3 in particular because these are the probably the best DD abusers outside of Dragapult, which outclassed them by a pretty large margin when it came to doing that on HO teams, and while I think HO teams are probably worse with Pult gone, I still feel they are very good in this metagame and Mega Gyarados and Gyarados now have a more defined place on those teams. Mega Gyarados has quite a few advantages, such the greater bulk and very threatening Offensive typing, the bulk in particular gives it quite a few set up opportunities, making it a pretty dangerous DD sweeper on HO teams. Regular Gyarados is next and with Dragapult gone I feel this is better because of its greater snowball potential because of Flynium Z and Moxie, making it in my eyes a much more dangerous Pokemon on HO teams since it also doesn't take up a Mega Slot however it doesn't take up your Z-Move, where as Mega Gyarados doesn't, so choosing between either really depends on what your team needs. Charizard-X is also better from this I feel, its already pretty fast but also even without DD its super hard to actually switch into, meaning once it doesn't get that DD up its going to steamroll you depending on the state of the game, late game especially. However it still has a pretty undesirable rocks weakness, especially when rocks are up and it isn't Mega Evolved.

3. Mega Latias

Yeah this Pokemon keeps getting better with each shift. Mega Latias was already a top 4 Pokemon and I feel the only thing holding it was Dragapult's extreme prominence causing people, including myself to run Mega Tyranitar a lot more. With it gone though I can firmly say that Mega Latias is the 2nd best Pokemon in the metagame behind Clefable, if not the single best Pokemon in the metagame since I don't think the gap between Mega Latias and Clefable is that high now. Mega Latias is insanely consistent and useful in almost every game, Aura Sphere + Psyshock hits everything you need to and its pretty hard and makes for a very consistent game-to-game wincon that is always able to pull its weight. Even outside of being an excellent wincon, its ability to check common Pokemon like Gliscor, Rillaboom, Garchomp, Landorus-T depending on the moves you give it, and it take advantage of Blissey, Utility Clefable, Zapdos with Refresh + Psyshock. You can give it just Calm Mind + Recover and slap 2 moves on it and it will always be effective because of its outstanding defensive utility and how good the aforementioned combo is. Mega Latias is a phenomenal Pokemon and its impact on the metagame cannot be understated.


4. What this means for the meta

I feel Dragapult was a big contributor to the building issues in the metagame, considering it had a complete lack of consistent checks and how the 50/50s it forced would largely dictate the momentum given to the user, meaning that you can prepare for Dragapult and still not be safe because it was pretty easy to support; Teleport from Blissey and Slowbro or Spikes support from Ferrothorn was all the support it needed and I feel the metagame was pretty much built around dealing with Dragapult and preventing it from sweeping at that point, and when you also have to consider checking other dangerous monsters like Mega Latias and, however with it gone, I feel teambuilding is much more free. There is a lot more room for builders to prepare for a lot of our dangerous threats without missing out on very important Pokemon, which I feel is a sign of a more healthy metagame.

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Hope you guys enjoyed this entire book page worth of a post, and I have want to know your opinions too. How do you feel about Dragapult's ban? What other Pokemon do you think got better with its ban? How do you feel about Mega Latias' place in the metagame, do you think its potentially too much? How does its ban impact teambuilding in your eyes? Do let me know.

Thanks for reading!

 

[Spyro]

So I'm not happy about the Dragapult ban but I can understand why some people wanted it gone. Ugh a few more votes and it would've stayed. Anyways yeah I expect Spectrier to rise to OU since it does the Hex set better than Dragapult along with the rise in usage of the other Ghost types that Zneon mentioned.

It's cool that Mega Charizard X will rise in usage too. Nobody really used it berore because Dragapult was the best and most dummy proof DD user. But this Pokemon is seriously under explored and has more than enough power to easily tears apart teams. Tough Claws boosted Flare Blitz and Outrage hit Z move levels of power seriously. There's SD + Tailwind which functions as both a wall breaker and sweeper depending on what you face. Theres SD + Scale Shot but that faces competition from Garchomp who doesn't have a rocks weakness or recoil move. There's DD + 3 attacks or DD + Roost as well. Just needs Defog/Spin support for that nasty Rock weakness. Charizard loves Healing Wish as well. But yeah use this Pokemon. It is criminally underrated and hasn't been explored to it's full potential. It's movepool is not lacking either. It gets everything it needs. Thunder Punch, EQ, Roost, Will O Wisp, Swords Dance even Belly Drum and Flame Charge.

Not much else to say but Groundium Z SD + Scale Shot Garchomp is something I have had great success with as well. Even Unaware Clef is destroyed after a little bit of prior damage. Physical walls like Slowbro and Hippo are annihalated etc. It's basically like a physical Z Hydreigon but actually gets STAB on Ground Z.

Dragonite and Salamence will probably rise in usage too since Flynium Z still hits like a truck. Haven't really used them so idk how effective they are but Flynium Z + Moxie soundds like could get out of hand quick. I don't mean as potentially broken (its not lol) I mean in snowballing sweeping potential.

Will edit to add more later.

 

[sanguine]

Now that we’re post-Dragapult, I figured now would be a good time to talk about some team structures I find very effective and easy to slap on right now.

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Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD
Calm Nature
- This mon is so versatile
- It can do anything
- It all depends on the rest of your team
- I love it, but I also hate it at the same time

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 24 Def / 224 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Spikes / Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Thunder Wave / Knock Off / Toxic / Gyro Ball


Toxapex @ Black Sludge / Heavy Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Recover
- Toxic
- Haze

Arguably the preeminent defensive core of the metagame, and it got somehow even better with the removal of one of the more notable threats that can force its way through in Hex Dragapult. This is a backbone that can work with almost any offensive core, due to the sheer versatility of the Pokémon involved and how effectively they collectively can dictate the pace of any matchup, outside of mirrors of course. If you’re feeling lazy, and just want easy gameplay, slap this on + a solid heatran check + two offensive threats and you should have at least a decent team.

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Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 12 SpA / 40 SpD / 192 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Moonblast
- Scald / Nature’s Madness
- Taunt

Tangrowth @ Rocky Helmet / Heavy Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
Hidden Power: Ice
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Sleep Powder

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 232 Atk / 68 Def / 208 Spe
Naive Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stone Edge
- Hidden Power [Fire]

A classic from the Mega Metagross days, FiniTangLando is now much better, now that Mega Scizor isn’t mandated to cover Dragon Dance Dragapult. This core isn’t as defensively solid as the above, but it contains more avenues to make active offensive progress, leading to more dynamic gameplay. I prefer Hidden Power Fire Lando here, as these structures typically struggle with Swords Dance Kartana especially, and appreciate the offensive check. Typical continuations go Mega Scizor / Defensive Kommo-o / filler or Mega Lopunny / Heatran / filler. I haven’t experimented with Mega Latias variations, but it should work here as well.

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Slowbro @ Heavy Duty Boots / Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Teleport
- Future Sight / Calm Mind
- Slack Off / Toxic / Ice Beam

Amoonguss @ Black Sludge / Heavy Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
Hidden Power: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 56 Def / 204 SpD
Calm Nature
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Stun Spore / Toxic
- Clear Smog

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 244 SpD / 20 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Roost
- Earthquake
- filler
- filler

Yes, I know, the phone is ringing. ORAS OU wants to know when it’s gonna get its core back. Regardless, it still works as good as ever. Slack-less Slowbro might seem odd, but Regenerator usually provides enough recovery between switch ins on fat shit / coming in, then out off of sacks / double switch into Teleport to the point where clicking the recovery move can often be more of a burden than a help compared to Future Sight or Scald or Teleport. I still do heavily recommend it if you’re running Calm Mind or prefer slower, safer styles of play. Amoonguss does all the same Amoonguss things, with Toxic being a new wrinkle to catch greedy Mega Latias players, although the Kartana and Scizor check provided by Hidden Power Fire can be still quite valuable. Gliscor is the flex slot here, as it can run any of its three patented sets to good effect. Typical continuations go Clefable / speed control of choice / breaker of choice

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Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Pain Split
- Toxic / Will-o-Wisp / Defog

or


Rotom-Wash @ Waterium Z / Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Nasty Plot
- Pain Split

Hippowdon @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Toxic / Whirlwind / Stone Edge

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 68 SpD / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power Fire / Leech Seed / Sleep Powder
- Synthesis

Mega Venusaur is probably the biggest winner of the Dragapult ban, as it no longer has to contend with being setup fodder or Hex food and can truly flex its ability to be an annoyance for Blissey structures and the above cores alike. The other two are relatively self explanatory, covering for stuff like Heatran and Gliscor that can muscle past Venusaur. Nasty Plot Rotom-W variants generally aren’t as safe or as reliable as standard fatter ones for progress making, but it can take advantage of the constant chip being applied to stuff like Mega Latias / Hydreigon / etc with Sand + Leech + Sludge Bomb poisoning long term being super annoying for maintaining the high HP levels required to check it. Typical continuations go Clefable / Corviknight / speed control of choice. However, there’s a lot of room to explore here, so go wild I guess.

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Tyranitar-Mega @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Fire Punch
- Crunch / Superpower / Earthquake
- Dragon Dance / Stealth Rock

Excadrill @ Steelium Z / Leftovers
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin

Blissey (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Teleport
- Soft-Boiled

Sand is very underrated at the moment, as teams struggle with the constant offensive pressure applied by TyranDrill + the easy pivots in from the egg lady. Mega Tyranitar’s last coverage option is very flexible. Superpower can be used to offensively check Hydreigon and opposing Tyranitar, Crunch for Mega Latias / Reuniclus and general neutral coverage, and Earthquake has solid midground potential + hits Pex / Magearna harder than any other move + hits Tapu Koko accurately. Dragon Dance is an extremely potent wincon or breaker in combination with Swords Dance Excadrill, but it also means you have to find your rocker elsewhere, which could be potentially annoying. This core is super flexible, so you could probably put almost anything it and it would be at least half decent as long as one or two of those is a fighting resist.

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Mew @ Red Card
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Skill Swap / Spikes
- Explosion

Bisharp @ Black Glasses
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch

Aerodactyl-Mega @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Stone Edge
- Fire Fang
- Dual Wingbeat

Without Dragapult, HO builds are still very solid and arguably even more flexible without it. Mew lead speaks for itself, with Skill Swap being my preferred option over spikes to guarantee hazards versus stall and really do shenaniganry with abilities versus Gliscor, Unaware Clefable, etc. Bisharp speaks for itself, and Mega Aerodactyl is an extremely effective breaker with Dragon Dance due to how near impossible it is to revenge kill, especially at full. Typical continuations go Swords Dance Rilaboom / setup Magearna of choice / filler (probably a second Mega Latias check).

I hope this post enlightened you in some way, or at least sparked some mild amusement. Remember to socially distance, limit the size of your groupings, wear masks, and read up on some indigenous history beyond the whitewashed colonial narrative typically provided by the education systems of the western world.

- faded

 

[lukxray]

Good folks, with the dragapult ban it seems to me that mega latias can become much more viable.
Latias (and latios) have been blessed with mystical fire and most importantly with aura shere. Mystical fire works for scizor which was a pretty good latia counter (this is the set I will use for the calculations, mostly at +1)

Latias-Mega (F) @ Latiasite
Skill: levitate
VE: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Shy nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- recover
- Calm mind
- Psishock
- Aura Sphere

+1 4 SpA Latias-Mega Mystical Fire vs. 248 HP / 244 SpD Scizor-Mega: 344-408 (100.2 - 118.9%) - OHKO guaranteed, you enter a free turn and roll calm mind if the other has scizor you kill him

Tyranitar was also a good counter
+1 4 SpA Latias-Mega Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 224-264 (55.4 - 65.3%) - 2HKO guaranteed, this is the most bulky set of tyranitar and tyranitar does not get to KO 0 - Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Latias-Mega: 170-204 (46.7 - 56%) - 99.6% chance of 2HKO after sandstorm damage

Heatran if he could get to do something
+1 4 SpA Latias-Mega Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Heatran: 170-202 (44 - 52.3%) - 3HKO guaranteed after Leftovers recovery, still good heatran damage maybe he will get in toxic not much else.

Blissey
+1 4 SpA Latias-Mega Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 313-370 (43.8 - 51.8%) - 12.5% chance to 2HKO, the same as heatran you could get toxic but it would end in sacrifice

A poke like aegislash is a very good check, hoopa unbound etc… thanks for reading.

 

[Jordy]

In the post-Dragapult metagame, I've seen a lot of people complain about Mega Latias, and while it's certainly a top 2 or 3 Pokemon, it still has its fair share of issues that make it managable in the National Dex metagame. I would like to talk about how you could go about checking Mega Latias right now.


Slow Pivots

Slow pivots like Blissey, Slowbro, Mega Slowbro, and Corviknight are worth noting because they can provide faster checks safe switch in opportunities. They can come in on Mega Latias as it starts to use Calm Mind, and then deal with it accordingly. Blissey can cripple it with Thunder Wave and Toxic and otherwise Teleport into a faster Pokemon like Weavile and Ash-Greninja. Thunder Wave even enables some slower Pokemon to effectively check Mega Latias, such as Choice Band Tyranitar. Blissey has to be wary of Psyshock though, as it does a pretty hefty chunk even at +1. Slowbro and Mega Slowbro can afford to stay in while fishing for Scald burns until Mega Latias gets to +4, after which they can simply Teleport out into a faster check. Corviknight falls into the same boat as these Pokemon; it can pretty easily pivot into Mega Latias and U-turn out into a faster check. Slowbro, Mega Slowbro, and Corviknight all have to be wary of Thunderbolt, and Corviknight must also watch out for Mystical Fire variants.

This suggestion doesn't really fall under this category because it takes away a lot of Slowbro and Mega Slowbro's potency as pivots, but I do think that Toxic on Slowbro and Mega Slowbro is something that may merit serious consideration now. They do not care much about the standard Psyshock + Aura Sphere set and Mega Latias is crippled very heavily by Toxic.


Steel-types that are not weak to Fighting

This one is pretty straight forward; Mega Latias is mostly seen with Psyshock + Aura Sphere right now and Steel-types that are not weak to Fighting are generally good checks to it.

Heart Swap Magearna can 'steal' Mega Latias's Calm Mind boosts and deal with it as a result. Overall, I honestly find it to be a pretty flimsy check though. The Mega Latias user can simply decide to only set up one Calm Mind and start firing off attacks. If you steal that boost, it can simply set up another Calm Mind, followed by another. Once you steal that boost, it can get to +2, etc. It's generally difficult to consistently check Mega Latias with this Magearna if your opponent knows the proper sequence.

Mega Mawile struggles a lot with longevity and can quickly be worn down by Aura Sphere + Spikes if it isn't brought into play by a pivot like Corviknight, Slowbro, Blissey, or Teleport Clefable. Mega Mawile is a particularly good check when combined with Teleport Clefable as that also makes up for its lack of longevity otherwise.

Mega Scizor is another rather straight forward check. Thanks to its incredible natural bulk, it does not care much about Aura Sphere and Roost means it isn't worn down easily. It can boost alongside Mega Latias with Swords Dance, which will overwhelm it. Mega Scizor has to be wary of Magnezone, though, which is a decently common partner to Mega Latias.

Aegislash has slowly been moving back into the spotlight, partly because it's such an excellent check to Mega Latias. Its Swords Dance set is a phenomenal wallbreaker right now that can easily use Mega Latias as setup bait. It struggles a little bit with longevity, especially when Mega Latias is paired with Spikes, and it must also be wary of faster Pursuit trappers.

It's also true that all these Steel-types must be wary of Mystical Fire, but it's not a move Mega Latias can really afford to run given how important hitting Mega Tyranitar and Tyranitar is.


Mega Sableye

There's not much to it; Mega Sableye hard walls most Mega Latias sets as it is immune to Psychic and Fighting. The only thing that holds it back as a check is that it is not splashable in the slightest and does not really fit on teams that aren't stall.


Beyond these, there's definitely more options available and room to explore even more checks, but these are the ones I wanted to point out. Checks to Mega Latias are pretty circumstantial to the coverage that its running, but given the state of the metagame, Psyshock + Aura Sphere is what you should always assume. If it gives up Aura Sphere for Mystical Fire it hit miscellaneous Steel-types it starts to struggle with Mega Tyranitar, Tyranitar, and Heatran. If it gives up Psyshock, it's not doing much to Blissey balance teams. I think you get the gist of it.

Mega Latias is a versatile Pokemon with lots of options and that can make it difficult to deal with for certain teams, but that is also its downfall; it cannot run everything at once.

 

[FireFern]

So since everybody has been talking about Mega Latias, I'm gonna make a post about Cinderace which I think is unhealthy and should be suspected. I think Cinderace is broken because of the small amount of counterplay it has, the amazing support from Slowbro, the part where Bulk Up can mess up a lot of pivot Cinderace counterplay, and because of how it can just click U-turn wihout any kind of punishment. It can just click U-turn every time and bring in something like Kyurem and destroy its switch ins. Future Sight from Slowbro also really helps it mow through teams. Cinderace also is really contricting on teambuilding. It's just really annoying.

Now I'm gonna go over each switch in and explain how Cinderace handles them.

Heavy duty boots sets are just U-turn food, leftovers and rocky helmet get pressured by rocks a bunch, and the rare Darkinium Z Bulk Up sets mow over it.

Zen headbutt on the switch can 2hko it. A Toxapex can run Baneful Bunker, but if the Cinderace player sees it coming, thats not very good news for Toxapex. Now clicking Baneful Bunker against Cinderace can just mean a free entrance for something dangerour like Heatran or Kyurem. Also if the Cinderace uses Bulk Up as the Toxapex Baneful Bunkers, it's screwed.

Unless it's rocky helmet Hippowdon, Hippowdon has to rely on sand damage to actually damage pivot Cinderace. It's also really bad at keeping rocks up and Bulk Up Cinderace can also mess it up. Having no Regenerator also means that it isn't recovering any HP which makes it easier towear down. It has to use Slack Off when ever it can which can give a free entrance to something else and it also won't always have a chance to click Slack Off either since Cinderace can just U-turn into something else.

These can wall some sets and Landorus-Therian isn't hit super effectively at all, but the rest die to some coverage move and all have no reliable recovery so Cinderace still beats them.

These both take around 40-50% from Pyro Ball so just a little bit of chip gets them 2hkoed.

Cinderace can't really do much against this but Bulk Up can annoy it and as usual, it can just U-turn into something else.

Other than being able to handle most of its switch ins in some way, there's also probably some more stuff about Cinderace. And I'm too lazy to add more to this post.

 

[aauha]

Hey I don't usually post here but I'm bored so let me show you all a mon that's piqued my interest
Allow me to introduce the most mu orientated pokemon in existence

Kommo-o @ Kommonium Z
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Clanging Scales
- Clangorous Soul
- Drain Punch
- Poison Jab


Double clang kommo-o is potent af Especially behind screens as screens help fully takes advantage of the bulk boosts (I recommend grimmsnarl for this) with drain punch too to recover big on something like a corv,mega scizor, and heatran. Not to mention at +1, clang soulblaze demolishes common fighting resists.

+1 4 SpA Kommo-o Clangorous Soulblaze vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 358-423 (90.8 - 107.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
+1 4 SpA Kommo-o Clangorous Soulblaze vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 327-385 (85.1 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+1 4 SpA Kommo-o Clangorous Soulblaze vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 220-259 (72.3 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


With that being said does become quite helpless when it encounters fairies. (Hence why I called it mu oriented af) Tapu fini can maybe be dealt with by using poison jab if chipped badly enough through spikes but clef is worst case scenario because of it's hazard immunity. (This makes me consider running something else over poison jab) combining it with something that can bait and punish fairies could help in this department. All in all I think this set is a damn good one for HO and now that dragapult has been banned, there are less options for a z user, and this kommo-o could fit the bill for you

 

[Spyro]

Despite there being a number of things that can eat multiple hits from Cinderace, it is a Pokemon that never dies because of Heavy Duty Boots and the insane momentum and switches it forces makes it a pain in the ass to deal with. I wouldn't say it's broken but it's definitely unhealthy. It's really good at creating unhealthy mind games because it doesn't really lose much or get punished like if at all for clicking either Pyro Ball on something that's threatened by it or a powerful U-turn or even Sucker Punch because unless the opponent has T-wave then spamming Sucker Punch is pretty free and protects you from taking damage from something faster that's either threatened by a Dark STAB or too weakened to survive it. Pyro Ball is not a contact move so it's a pretty free drawback powerful 120 BP move that can sometimes even burn and cost you the game. Oh yeah but it's only 10% well that doesn't matter when Cinderace gets plenty of chances to get in on the field and kick that ball. So the chances of burn haxing are not really that low in practice. Gunk Shot is another move that makes Ace problematic which sometimes forces scouts when it doesn't even have the move. I call these phantom moves. Because Cinderace has so many viable moves you pretty much have to expect the worse when you're facing it and this makes playing against Cinderace really awkward. There's also Z move and Scarf and Band which only adds to the versatility of this Pokemon. It is not a one trick pony and it will put in work always. I can't think of a match up at all where it doesn't put in a good if not amazing amount of work. Put emphasis on amazing because not many other Pokemon have the same ability to do that to the extent of Cinderace and with that level of consistency. Oh yeah and the huge momentum it creates as a team player is like Genesect levels of good because of how often hard it is to stay in on this Pokemon when it gets STAB on it's entire movepool. Gamefreak designed this Pokemon to be good in singles and this is probably proof they keep an eye on things like Smogon. I do feel like they did go a bit overboard with this Pokemon however. So yeah I don't think it's broken broken but probably something National Dex OU is better off without. Oh and I almost forgot how this Pokemon can choose it's weaknesses and resistances with it's moves and this only adds to how difficult this Pokemon can be to deal with.

 

[Avery]

hi! After giving the metagame a little time to develop and having played and built extensively within the new post-Dragapult environment, there are one Pokemon I believe to be extremely potent right now, and it has only benefitted from Dragapult's ban. I am going to delve into why I feel said Pokemon is so potent and a couple of cores I've found to be especially effective with the aforementioned Pokemon.

To me, Aegislash feels like one of the biggest winners from the Dragapult ban. Dragapult departing from the tier only served to increase the potency of Mega Latias, and Aegislash acts a phenomenal defensive Mega Latias & Calm Mind Clefable check with quite a bit of offensive utility due to the move Pursuit. This recent development renders Aegislash the only Pursuit trapper who is not weak to Mega Latias's Aura Sphere, and thus does not have to play the same mind games that Tyranitar or Weavile sometimes find themselves forced into. Aegislash also is not relegated to Pursuit trapping, as Swords Dance and Mixed Aegislash sets absolutely rip apart the common balance structures like Blissey + Slowbro or Toxapex + Clefable + Mega Latias. Choice Band is what I personally use on Pursuit sets, as I feel it is a little more prediction reliant overall but threatening an OHKO on Mega Latias and rewarding aggressive play quite handily is rather appealing.

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Spectrier is one of the Pokemon I feel forms a very potent Ghost-spam core with Aegislash, specifically Mixed Aegislash, as the ability to Pursuit Mega Latias is no longer as appreciated since Spectrier acts as an offensive check to Mega Latias. Aegislash's Close Combat also removes the standard Ghost-resistant Spectrier checks, such as Tyranitar and Hydreigon. Spectrier's ability to snowball out of control once Aegislash deals with the few Ghost resists in the tier is genuienly astounding, and this core has been extremely powerful for me as of late.

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Mixed Aegislash pairs terrifically with Mega Charizard Y, as it handles the deadstops to MZY, namely Blissey, Toxapex, Latias, and a few lucky Tyranitar. Typically, my mixed Aegislash are Spell Tag, as to 2HKO Toxapex with Shadow Ball without the restriction of a choice item or a Z Crystal. Additionally, MZY's devastating wallbreaking power is often just shy of most 2HKOs, which is why I feel like this combination of Pokemon greatky benefit from Future Sight Support.

All in all, I feel like the removal of Dragapult and the newfound freedom behind using Mega Latias allows Aegislash to really come into its own and prove itself in today's metagame. Hopefully this post is enough to convince you to give Aegislash a shot, be it Choice Band, Mixed, or Swords Dance. Thanks for reading!

 

[R8]

Yo. I wanted to talk about Cinderace, and why I think it isn't unhealthy for the National Dex metagame, and that it is more of a meta ruler with some problems, that make some mons like Latias-Mega or Clefable not as broken as they should be ; and on a lower extent, some worse mons that wins against him better. Also, the most used Pokemon in the tier, obviously Lando, doesn't care about him.
Cinderace make stall a lot harder to play; The combination of Pyro Ball, High Jump Kick, Zen Headbutt ( Or on some LO set, electro ball ), and Gunk Shot, it can deal with anything in stall except for the rare Hippodown, Moltres and Gliscor. With Pyro Ball it is immune to burn from Sableye Mega thanks to it's Pyro Ball. But this doesn't invalidate stall, has with some anticipations, it can get burned, or can crash it's High Jump Kick because of Sableye Mega or a protect.

In S and A+ rank, every mons that it counter.
High Jump Kick. it OHKO, without that, blissey would only be OHKO by fighting type, and only Kommo-o don't take a mega spot in OU
Gunk Shot is one of the few move of the tier to OHKO clefable because of the lacks of Poison Type and good Steel-type attacks
Latias-Mega Sucker Punch and U-turn 2HKO it, and you all know how strong Latias is, so it make Latias no as easily spammable as it would be.

Pyro Ball OHKO it, nothing to say here, it help keeping your rocks that aren't as easy to keep on the opposite side because of Corv
Same, but it helps not to be Overhelmed by Stack Hazard, and it's good to kill it in stall
Heatran lose, nothing to say here.
Magearna is very strong in the tier right now because of it's Double Dance set, which it's pretty strong, and some people even ask a suspect test (which I personally don't think it is broken, but I get that some people want it ). Cinderace can tank any hit except Z thunderbolt at + 1, and can obviously kill after that.
Medicham-Mega is outspeeded and helps bulky offense teams.
Nothing not obvious to say here
Get OHKO if LO electro ball is runned
Toxapex gets killed by Zen Headbutt, and lowers it's defensive domination and again, makes stall no as easy to play

So in conclusion, the Libero mon isn't that broken but more of an healthy meta ruler Pokemon that lower the power of top tiers, and makes stall harder to play but not unviable. But we will probably see a suspect test a day, and I will obviously vote to keep Ace in the tier, to keep Clefable, Latias and Stall in general not broken.

View attachment 296640

That's what the issue with cinderace is: with the right set, it can be a problem for almost any pokemon in the tier, including Landorus-T. Since Lando-T lacks recovery, and cinderace can easily weaken him early game, you can literally slap Cinderace on a team if you need Lando-T being in range of something late game.

Cinderace is also kind of a mediocre mon against stall. Every good stall team packs strong countermesures against Cinderace, such as Alomomola, Gliscor, Hippowdon, or Moltres. Banning Cinderace won't really make stall better or broken, since there is a ton of mons that are way better than Cinderace to break stall, such as Manaphy, Mawile Mega, Reuniclus, offensive Heatran, some Magearna sets, etc...

By the way, most of the mons you mentionned aren't S or A+ rank because their lack of checks. For example, Blissey is S rank thanks to heavy duty boots and teleport, and thus is arguably the best pivot in the metagame. If you have cinderace in your team, that never will prevent Blissey from switching in your special attackers and generating momentum for free, or prevent heatran from wallbreaking/setting rocks, MMedicham dismembering your defensive core, etc...

I'm personally mixed about cinderace, but i still strongly disagree with the reasons you mentioned. In my opinion, cinderace is not a metagame ruler, and even if it was, we all should keep in mind that the "broken checks broken" argument isn't a good one. We should focus on the metagame in his current state, and not what it could become if Cinderace is banned.

 

[WolfishOne]

For the S and A+ mons, I just used the viability ranking. It's true there are other stallbreaker, but Cinderace is more popular than all of them (also, electro ball can be runned for alomomola, but that's something else). And in stall, once the Ace response are dead , which will happen in a game after a long time, it is over.

It's true saying "metagame ruler" wasn't the best term, but it's in this idea. I don't think Cinderace is a broken mon that counter the broken, but it helps against some of the best mons in the tier. I just wanted to explain why I don't want Ace to get banned here.

Electro ball ace is awful and is a gimmick quite frankly. Also cinder ace is really not a stall breaker, stall is actually one of the archetypes that handles ace easiest

 

[astralydia]

Electro ball ace is awful and is a gimmick quite frankly. Also cinder ace is really not a stall breaker, stall is actually one of the archetypes that handles ace easiest

This is just flat-out wrong. Stall actually has the most difficulty handling Cinderace out of any style I find - most of the time a stray Gunk Shot poison on Quagsire, a bad set matchup or for some stalls without Pex or Gliscor simply just spamming U-turn can get you somewhere. Stall has to dedicate nearly half its team to properly counter Cinderace - by the time you have done that you likely don't have the time to properly answer the various many stallbreakers around like Spectrier, Mega Mawile, Magearna and Heatran. Besides that, whilst LO Electro Ball Cinderace is quite niche, it is probably the best Cinderace to run on HO as it annihilates Slowbro and Toxapex in one slot whilst making some high physical investment walls like Alomomola think twice. The compression that Electro Ball provides for these HO Aces makes it 100% worth running - it's just not something you should look out for intentionally as they aren't going to be very good outside of it.

That being said, I agree with the fact that Cinderace is difficult to deal with for offensive styles as they too have problems with answering Cinderace over the course of the game. Landorus-Therian, whilst good can actually be traded against if it ends up fighting a Sucker Punch Bulk Up variant or happens to get Gunk poisoned, as do a lot of checks. For the most part I have felt constrained trying to handle Cinderace, often splashing the same cores like Landorus Heatran Rotom-W or Heatran Mega Swampert Spectrier (rip Dragapult) to deal with it consistently. It doesn't help that a lot of this banks on guessing the Cinderace set correctly either which makes it extremely infuriating to answer, especially when you load into Zen-less Cinderace. Overall I personally find Cinderace to be busted beyond words honestly.

 

[Sputnik]

Gonna lay out a few things that I've been experimenting with and that I think are pretty good right now.



Kommo-o @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 60 SpD / 196 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Drain Punch
- Protect / Earthquake
- Toxic

Specially Defensive Kommo-o is something that I feel has been slightly overshadowed by the Blissey revolution, however it does have excellent utility that sets it apart from the pink blob. Occasionally teams that need the standard "Specially Defensive Wall" and might want to run Blissey also need a Stealth Rocker. Rocks Blissey isn't horrible, but it tends to force Blissey into Teleporting out of situations where it would rather stay in and status the opposition, making it generally suboptimal (as well as making it just feel awful to actually pilot in my opinion but that's besides the point). Kommo-o offers Rocks for free, as well as having two extremely important advantages over Blissey: The ability to mess with Magma Trapper Heatran and Bulletproof. A lot of teams are using a combo of Blissey+a Ground-type (oftentimes Gliscor) to handle Heatran. To combat this, more and more Heatran are running Magma Trapper sets with Firium Z to trap Blissey and nuke Gliscor all in one slot. Kommo-o (while not really wanting to take a full powered Firium Z) doesn't take any of Heatran's shit and can mess with those sets very efficiently. It can even run Earthquake if you really wanna kill it with fire, but Protect is nice utility overall that helps in a multitude of scenarios so I wouldn't really recommend it. Bulletproof is nice utility to have in a metagame where both Spectrier and Mixed Aegislash variants are on the rise, (although one still needs to pivot intelligently around both, and you need Earthquake to break Spectrier's Subs.)and it gives teams an option against Zard Y that can reliably set Stealth Rock, which is very nice. An immunity to Cinderace's spammable Pyro Ball is always nice too, although it should be made clear that Kommo-o is obviously not a reliable Ace answer. What's more, teams relying on Defog Zapdos are in trouble, as Kommo-o has no issues nailing Zap with Toxic unless its an Hurricane Variant. All in all, Kommo-o is a valuable addition to many balances right now, and should definitely be considered on many teams.


Swampert @ Swampertite
Ability: Damp
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Impish Nature
- Flip Turn
- Earthquake
- Yawn / Toxic / Ice Punch
- Stealth Rock

Defensive Mega Swampert has been discussed lately by a few people, and I'm not really that big on it overall but I think it does warrant some discussion. In particular, Yawn variants get really funny when paired with Spikes support, and this is further compounded by the fact that Ferrothorn is a naturally decent partner. Toxic variants also spread Toxic onto things like Zapdos, Slowbro, Mega Latias, and Tangrowth, which is very nice. I have found that to properly utilize Mega Swampert, however, one needs to give it a bit more support than some defensive cores, as Mega Swampert doesn't switch into Heatran that many times without Leftovers (you can run normal Swampert but I have found it to be rather underwhelming overall), and Swampert's lack of recovery makes it a pretty poor long term Cinderace answer. These are not unreasonable on the right team, however, and Mega Swampert's pivoting abilities mean that it can be a threat when wielded properly.


I would also like to bring up a pair of struggling Pokemon to the forefront.



I would just like to say that these have had, somehow, one of the hardest drop offs in the history of the metagame. Volcarona is just ruined by Blissey being everywhere, and even non Blissey teams often fit things like Toxapex and Kommo-o that just stonewall it. Bringing Volcarona has become an enormous liability, and unless one is supporting it out the wazoo it isn't worth bringing at all, and frankly bringing it to an important game is asking to be dissapointed.

Rotom-Heat, on the other hand, is arguably somehow even worse! It's defensive utility is...kind of there, but Blissey ruins it, Grounds annoy it and most can kill it or status it, things like Toxapex and Ferrothorn are running Knock Off more and more, so you can't even switch into Ferrothorn reliably, its a bad defogger (frankly always has been), it doesn't really break Blissey teams unless you are running a Nasty Plot+Pain Split with a Z-Move (Rotom Wash does that better by the way), Tapu Koko and Zapdos are both vastly superior as Volt Switching pivots, and I wouldn't consider bringing it over any of our other proven defensive staples right now. /rant.

 

[Sputnik]

Ok I know this is technically going to be a double post, but it's not really relevant to my previous post in any meaningful way and I feel like this needs to be discussed in greater detail.

I'd like to discuss Slowbro.


I was reading through some of the Cinderace ban posts (trying to properly form my own opinion on it before I start reqs and do a post next week) before I came across Guard's post on the subject. Notably, he states that while he personally doesn't think that Ace is banworthy, he states that Future Sight+Cinderace is a issue that he cannot completely discount due to the combos potency. He also states, however, that this might indicate a larger issue with Slowbro as a whole, not just with the Future Sight+Cinderace combo.

I personally agree with this assessment wholeheartedly. In fact, I would go so far as to say that Slowbro should be one of the leading candidates for action in what we as a council next.

What Makes Slowbro So Good, and What Does it Pair With?

It's pretty simple; Slowbro+Breaker is absurd.

This might seem like an oversimplification, but I don't really see it as such. Heavy-Duty Boots Slowbro is a good defensive Pokemon in its own right that is hard to wear down, has a good defensive typing, blah blah, we all know what it does. And, of course, it has its breaking partners.

Some people might claim that this is a preemptive post, as we don't know what the results of the Cinderace suspect are yet. I disagree; while Cinderace is definitely a main beneficiary of Slowbro's Future Sight antics, it is far from the only one. In fact, almost every traditional breaker in the tier benefits from Slowbro's presence. This isn't an exaggeration either. Some definitely benefit more than others, for sure. I'm not about to claim that Mega Medicham benefits just as much as, say, Cinderace. But almost every single traditional choice locked/nuclear breaker adores Slowbro's Teleporting/Future Sighting support.

There are some extremely obvious ones, of course. Cinderace is one that everyone has been discussing right now, and other beneficiaries, such as Mega Charizard Y, Weavile, and Mega Heracross have all been discussed. However, almost every other traditional nuclear breaker on the VR benefits in some way. For example, one could feasibly ditch Zen Headbutt on Mega Medicham and free up a slot for either two different elemental punches or slot on Bullet Punch. Kartana doesn't have to mess around with Z-Moves to break past Zapdos; straight Band sets with a Future Sight in the back let Kartana effectively 2HKO the bird with Leaf Blade most of the time. There are even examples I messed around with that aren't on the VR just for proof of concept; Mixed Mega Garchomp fails to 2HKO Blissey with Earthquake...until you toss in a Future Sight and suddenly Blissey is in trouble. Zygarde-10% becomes beastly with Future Sight in the back, as Future Sight allows for confirmed 2HKOs with Thousand Arrows onto otherwise troublesome Pokemon such as Clefable and Mega Latias, therefore heavily restricting defensive counterplay on teams not running Tangrowth or Slowbro....and woe betide you if the Zydog's prediction is on that day and they click either Outrage or Toxic.

I'm not advocating for the ranking of the above UR mons based on their effectiveness with Future Sight. The point that I'm trying to make is that banning Cinderace does not solve the fundamental problem that Slowbro brings to the table. It's toolkit is perfectly tuned for the roll that is played; nothing else currently viable can do its job. The closest thing (not including Slowking) that I can think of is Mew, which has access to the Future Sight+Teleport combo. However, Mew crucially lacks Regenerator, which is the third crucial piece of the puzzle.

There is no reason to believe that the Slowbro problem will get better with Cinderace gone. Quite the contrary; there is reason to believe that another breaker will just take its place. There are so many excellent breakers lined up that can potentially mash with Future Sight support. What if Weavile becomes unhandleable? What if it's Mega Lopunny? What if other breakers that I haven't even thought about rise to the occasion? In all likelihood, it will be some combination of the three. These don't perform Cinderace's role quite as well as the bunny, of course, but the fact that so many breakers are enabled by Slowbro is a testament that our pink blob friend is, in my opinion, the real problem here.

In conclusion, I believe that Slowbro is creating a fundamental issue in National Dex right now. The enabling of so many breakers, and the restrictions that it is putting on the teambuilder, cannot be ignored. Of course I will not be recommending action immediately after Cinderace's result; we will see how the meta develops if Cinderace is banned. But even without Cinderace, I fear that Slowbro will resume where it left off, just with one less partner. And maybe a few more undiscovered ones, who knows.

I'm very interested to hear other people's thoughts on Slowbro, so responses would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Zneon]

Okay to stir up some discussion here I want to talk about a certain move. Pursuit, I want to talk about why its such a damn good move and it's place in the metagame as of right now. Funny how I thought up this post and BKC's Pursuit video comes out of the same day kek. Okay anyway let's go.

~Pursuit in National Dex~

​

Part 1: Use and who uses it

First thing to point out is what Pursuit does. It traps. That's basically it, but trapping in general is a big deal because it invalidates a core part of Pokemon which is switching, and this is why Pursuit at is a ludicrously outstanding move at its core. However it's influence on the metagame cannot be understated. Mega Tyranitar, Base Tyranitar and Weavile are all somewhere in A rank and the main reason would be how good and consistent they are as Pursuit users, so I'll go over them. An example of Pokemon that Pursuit can trap, and it's a ton of Pokemon but the main ones I feel would be Zapdos, Spectrier, Heatran and Aegislash.


Starting of with Mega Tyranitar, I consider this to be the best and most splashable Pursuit user in the metagame right now because its the most consistent out of the 3 I would have to say. The biggest thing about it is the amazing bulk and power coming from it, the ability to take on stuff like Heatran, Choiced-locked Tapu Lele, Zapdos, Mega Charizard Y and Spectrier fairly reliably is very valuable in this metagame and getting rid of them with Pursuit when they are low is even better. Its bulk gives it a lot of opportunities to do it and its ridiculous power coming from Adamant makes sure that its going to force something out pretty reliably or trade with something to get it to low health late game and then get the Pursuit off. Sand is also huge for Mega Tyranitar especially with other forms of passive damage like rocks, Spikes or status.


Base Tyranitar is fairly good despite it in my eyes being less splashable than Mega Tyranitar in my eyes, though I feel it does have its place on teams if want to give your Mega slot to something else, since its still a very fine Pursuit trapper. It has great bulk all-around and a great enabler for Sand balances especially if you want to give your mega stone to another Pokemon. Choice Band is a big nuke and really hard to switch into, while Leftovers can Tyranitar the recovery that Mega Tyranitar sorely lacks, either making its Pursuit pack more of a punch or giving it more opportunities to do it due to the Leftovers recovery, and Sand along with other passive damage putting stuff into Pursuit range.


Weavile is different because unlike the Tyranitar forms, Weavile is frail as hell, however, it makes up for it by being very fast. Its STAB combo is excellent and with a Choice Band equipped, it really doesn't have that many good switch ins and this STAB combo is really all Weavile needs because it lacks solid overall resists. But anyway, it being so fast allows it to Pursuit trap Pokemon that the Tyranitar forms couldn't. The biggest one I would have to mention is how it can Pursuit trap Cinderace depending on its health. I would say the biggest problem for Weavile is that its frailty makes it more prediction reliant I would have to say especially since its power is mostly going to come of its STAB Pursuit, nonetheless its a great Pokemon in the metagame and does its job of Pursuit trapping very well.

Part 2: Who benefits from it

Pursuit removing something can have a huge impact and the main thing its gonna do mostly is get rid of a defensive component that's annoying you when its really low on health, however Pursuit doing work doesn't have to end with just removing something, leaving something really low for a Pokemon can change the pace of the game and leave your offensive threats more threatening than they would be without Pursuit trapping.


Magearna, or should I just say Choice Specs Magearna pairs really well with Pursuit. Heatran is easily one of Magearna's biggest roadblocks and having that removed can be huge. If it's removed, Magearna is more free with spamming Fleur Cannon because without a Fairy resist, Fleur Cannon is either a 2HKO or most of the time an OHKO coming from Magearna, and having it low is also amazing too. Pursuit takes advantage of the fact that Heatran has no recovery and combine this with rocks up and you got yourself a dead Heatran. Also having Zard Y removed can be great for it since it threatens it incredibly hard even though it cannot switch in too reliably, but having it gone via Pursuit can leave a huge weight of it and make it harder to deal with.


Zapdos is a massive roadblock for Kartana because it doesn't drop at +2 unless its Normalium Z and Heat Wave deletes it, Pursuit alongside Kartana on the other hand is a huge boon for it. Zapdos being removed or at least weakened to the point where a +2 Knock Off can deal with it is amazing and huge for Kartana in my opinion. Not to mention Weavile potentially trapping Cinderace can be great for it as its one of the best offensive checks to it. Kartana has less to say about than Magearna but overall its another example of a Pokemon that gets enabled by Pursuit fairly easily.


Zapdos walls Mega Scizor, forces it to recover multiple times because of Heat Wave and can even burn it from this, with it weakened or removed, Mega Scizor can flourish and become a massive threat with SD. Heatran can also be a massive roadblock but its lack of recovery combined with hazard damage makes Pursuit such a massive threat for it, and therefore enables Mega Scizor. Mega Scizor is a phenomenal due to its amazing role compression, it can check multiple Pokemon, it can be a bulky pivot, it can be speed control with Bullet Punch or it can be a wincon, its usually not a wincon however if it has the opportunity it can be and with Pursuit paired with this Pokemon it truly can be an absolute monster.

Part 3: Miscellaneous Pursuit trappers

There are a still a few Pursuit trappers however I consider them slightly more niche than the main 3 and thus not amazing, however they still do their role as a Pursuit trapper decently well and I feel they deserve a mention.


Aegislash is a pretty nice Pursuit trapper I feel. Its ability to Pursuit trap Psychics like Tapu Lele, Mega Medicham and Mega Latias is pretty useful since they cannot really touch Aegislash. However I feel the problem with Aegislash as a Pursuit trapper is the fact that it doesn't really Pursuit trap other very prominent stuff that the other 3 are able to do. Spectrier, Gengar, Heatran and Zapdos are not forced out by Aegislash and considering that Shadow Ball / Close Combat / Shadow Sneak are enough to threaten all of these Pokemon, Pursuit doesn't fit on Aegislash as easily as the other 3 Pursuit trappers in my eyes.


Alolan Muk is a truly awful Pokemon but I guess you could use it on very specific stall teams. Its ability to absorb Toxic Spikes and take on Tapu Lele, Spectrier and Gengar decently well with AV is solid, but stall isn't really an amazing playstyle right now however with how slow and weak it is along with how easy it is to wear down means excessive support is needed to make it actually work. Alolan Muk isn't worth using almost all the time for this reason.

======

Long post about literally just 1 move, that was fun. Anyway, I hope this was helpful to anyone who wants to know just how much Pursuit makes an impact on the metagame, how the ability to Pursuit trapping prominent and dangerous threats like Spectrier can be very helpful but also how it can enable Pokemon like Magearna and Kartana very well.

Thanks for reading!

 

[KirbCena]

Well, with the stupid horse finally gone, I figure another prediction post is in order.



Bulky Psychics are probably the biggest beneficiaries of the Spec ban imo. Teams aren't going to be as forced to slap on a Pursuit trapper or bulky Dark-type, and Spectrier isn't around anymore to force them out, which makes it less difficult for said mons to perform their roles. Reuniclus especially appreciates this because one would be more likely to not suffer from running the Double Dance + Stored Power variant as opposed to CM + 2A, since you would otherwise be walled to death with Dark-types on each team, especially without TSpikes support. Slowbro also appreciates being able to FuturePort more freely and not being horse food anymore. While Mega Latias is still going to be running Psyshock + Aura Sphere for its decent coverage, it at least also appreciates not being horse food. as well Pursuit/Bulky Dark-types likely not being as common.



While teams are no longer absolutely required to run one of these to not get run over, I don't think the Tyranitar formes will drop too much since the aforementioned potential rise in bulky psychics will create an incentive to run checks to them. Not to mention they also have decent utility, such as both being decent Heatran checks(bar Steelium, but teams really appreciate Firium rn) and the Mega form being an excellent rocker. As for Hydreigon, the SpD variant will likely still be a decent choice since it has decent utility as a Defogger and an Ash-Gren and Heatran check, though it must be mentioned that it can potentially be abused, as Ash-Gren can run U-turn over Spikes with HDB still popular (though this isn't really that optimal) and Heatran can punish it with Toxic and switch to a teammate like Tapu Fini or Clefable. '



Other offensive ghosts also benefit heavily from Spectrier's ban, since they have less competition, can abuse the potentially rising Psychics, and appreciate the aforementioned Dark-types likely decreasing in usage. Both Gengar and Aegislash can break through Balance with ease, though I personally believe Aegislash is overall more superior(or at least splashable) due to its additional defensive utility of being a great check to the likes of popular mons like Mega Medicham, Mega Latias, Slowbro, some Magearna variants, etc. despite its lacking speed which can be more than made up for by teammates like Mega Lopunny.



Blissey no longer has to run Shadow Ball over Seismic Toss or Toxic/Thunder Wave and be excessively passive in order to MAYBE check Spectrier, which means it'll likely be as splashable as ever for reasons I think we already know.



As a side note, while Spectrier's ban does make it a bit easier to carry checks to Ace and Mage, I personally think these two will still be incredibly overwhelming to build for since both need at least 2 if not 3 slots to reliably check them. I think I speak for a majority of the playerbase when I say that while Ace isn't getting tested again in the near future, Magearna should absolutely be tested next once things settle down.

There's probably some other mons that benefitted or suffered from Spec's ban, but I think I covered the major ones. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about or missed something(or if my wording seems off)! And I encourage others to share their thoughts as well!

 

[Jordy]

Hey, I've been laddering a lot lately, getting as high as #4 earlier this morning. Stall and hyper offensive teams are what I've primarily been using, as well as some other stuff. I'd like to share some things.


Victini @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 52 HP / 204 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- U-turn
- Toxic

A set like this first came up while discussing our thoughts on Magearna, talking about various checks, etc. Ultimately we figured that Victini is probably pretty underexplored; we've really only seen Choice Scarf and Choice Band Victini up to this point. Heavy-Duty Boots makes Victini incredibly hard to wear down and really lets you take advantage of its defensive utility optimally. It's perhaps the single best Shift Gear Magearna check and it is a Grass resist that's faster than Rillaboom, can fairly easily switch into Mega Latias, and check other miscellaneous Pokemon like Tapu Lele. Ofcourse you do miss out on the Speed tier and Trick which Choice Scarf can provide, but the general defensive utility and just how hard it is to wear down can easily make up for it. My favorite filler move is Toxic because it's your best overall option against Mega Latias, Slowbro, Landorus-T, and Hippowdon. It's also worth noting that Victini does struggle with Pursuit trappers, but you have a fair bit of freedom with pivoting because Heavy-Duty Boots means you aren't taking any chip damage just by switching in, which is really powerful. This set in my experience synergizes incredibly well with Ferrothorn to quickly wear down Heatran and Mega Tyranitar.


import

So I want to share this team because it's done me a lot of good. It is in my opinion the perfect example of a hyper offense team featuring Choice Scarf Victini. It's an incredibly powerful strategy that will oftentimes poke the right holes that will enable 1 of your 4 sweepers. In particular, this is really powerful against rain teams, which are typically perceived to have a strong matchup against hyper offense, because you can ensure that Stealth Rock stays up at all times and take out a key piece with Victini.

I specifically wanted to talk a little about Cinderace. The Z-Double Edge set on this team, which Chazm showcased first, is incredibly powerful and the perfect example of just how well Cinderace can adapt to anything. Z-Double Edge at +1 can OHKO Mega Latias and does ~80-90 to most other checks like Slowbro and Toxapex. Beyond that, the neutral coverage it provides is very good. Ofcourse the lack of Heavy-Duty Boots hurts a little, but it is well worth the potential payoff.

In my opinion, Cinderace is truly broken and has been for a while, way before we were really reconsidering Z-Move sets. The Heavy-Duty Boots set alone is already way too good. However, just seeing how this set has become such a strong force in the metagame out of seemingly nowhere is really worrisome in my opinion, and I think that Cinderace will only continue to become even more difficult to consistently check as time goes on.

 

[Jordy]

Hey everyone, I've been using a lot of stall on ladder and in general lately and it's in my opinion one of the strongest archetypes. In general I've noticed that people just don't really know how to break down stall teams, but hopefully this can be of some use to better understand what stall teams aim for and how to break them down.

To start with things, I believe that it's important to understand the general objectives and winconditions of a stall team. There are 3 primary ones, and more often than not it's a combination of them.

• Entry hazards
  • You will oftentimes see very strong entry hazard control on stall teams. Stealth Rock and Spikes are very powerful because they waste HP from the opponent and ultimately recovery PP. Stall teams will also often have a strong anti-hazard core like Mega Sableye + Zapdos. Pressure users like Zapdos, Corviknight, and Moltres are very common on stall teams that aim to stack entry hazards, too, as they can make Defoggers run out of Defog PP quickly.
• PP stall
  • Stall teams are also very good at winning off PP; their sturdy defensive cores allow for a lot of switching without wasting PP. The opponent will oftentimes be wasting more PP in the meantime. Pressure users are very useful for this objective too; they can make the opponent run out of PP quicker. Regenerator Pokemon like Alomomola, Toxapex, and Tangrowth also contribute towards PP stalling because Regenerator enables free switches that don't make you waste any recovery. Ditto can also form an infinite against opposing Regenerator cores.
• Setup Pokemon
  • It is not uncommon for stall teams to run multiple fat setup Pokemon too; it's very likely to encounter stall teams that feature Bulk Up Corviknight and Calm Mind Unaware Clefable, as they would otherwise struggle to break down sturdy cores like Corviknight + Toxapex.

I have 2 teams to share that might make the concepts written out above more clear. These are also the main 2 stall teams I've been using.


import

This is a stall team I built for Dragapult's suspect test and it's been pretty consistently dominant since. It's a great example of a team that incorporates multiple of the winconditions above. It features a very strong entry hazard removal core with Mega Sableye + Corviknight being able to keep them off against almost the entire tier. It also uses Alomomola to buy free switches with Regenerator and Wish is a generally useful tool that can bail you out of certain situations meaningfully. It is also one of the best example of a stall team that interprets solid winconditions in Corviknight and Clefable; with the 2 average games can sometimes last a lot shorter due to the opponent's lack of checks, and otherwise they can manage to PP stall checks like Haze Toxapex until they can win.


import

This is a good example of a stall team that aims to win by stacking entry hazards. It still features a strong entry hazard removal core with Mega Sableye and Zapdos, but the wincondition of this team is more often than not to stack Stealth Rock + Spikes and having the opponent run out of Defog PP and ultimately HP/PP. This wincondition is largely enabled by Zapdos's access to Pressure. Just like the above team it also uses a Regenerator Pokemon, in this case Toxapex, to buy a lot of free switches. Toxapex's access to Knock Off is also pretty notable because Heavy-Duty Boots can really ruin the proficiency of teams like these.

It's definitely worth mentioning that almost every stall team will be running Chansey and an Unaware user, typically Clefable, but Quagsire and Pyukumuku are viable options too. Chansey is the ultimate blanket check to special attackers like Ash-Greninja. Combined with the ability to compress very useful utility like Stealth Rock and Heal Bell makes it near mandatory on every stall team. Stall teams typically have very solid entry hazard removal and as such, Chansey is preferable to Blissey. Unaware users are very important to stall teams too, as they are prone to being overwhelmed by Pokemon like Swords Dance Garchomp; you'll see very few that don't run an Unaware user. The most common Unaware user is definitely Clefable because it covers the widest range of setup users and can also function as a proactive wincondition with Calm Mind, but Quagsire is a viable option to solidify the Heatran and Draining Kiss + Stored Power Magearna matchup and Pyukumuku can also be run for Manaphy.

Now that all these things are established, a typical stall team will look like this: Mega Sableye + Pressure Defogger + Chansey + Unaware user + Filler 1 + Filler 2.

The last 2 filler slots can be a lot of things, but most commonly run are Gastrodon, Gliscor, Alomomola, Toxapex, and Tangrowth for a variety of reasons. Gastrodon and Gliscor ease the Heatran matchup and also help with Pokemon like Manaphy and Cinderace respectively. Gliscor can also set Stealth Rock or provide an additional Defog user. Alomomola and Toxapex provide a lot fo free switches with Regenerator and also help with Cinderace. Toxapex's access to Haze can also enable certain stall teams to forego an Unaware user. Tangrowth is the only way to solidly 100% check Kartana with stall teams, and it can also prove to be useful against Ground-types like Garchomp and Gliscor.

This post wouldn't be complete without acknowledging that stall has its share of weaknesses too; no archetype is unbeatable. I don't feel the need to talk about whate every single stallbreaker does in-depth, but in general, Calm Mind + Pain Split Magearna, Substitute Kyurem, Gengar, Manaphy, Kartana, Heatran, and Mega Mawile can all be quite difficult for stall teams to deal with. However, what I really think makes stall so largely unique is that it has the room to adapt to just about any stallbreaker, at the cost of some other matchups ofcourse. Stall is easily the best archetype at picking and choosing what it loses to.

If you're worried about Calm Mind + Pain Split Magearna, just run Heart Swap Magearna, specially defensive Jirachi, or maybe Shedinja. If you're struggling with Kyurem you may want to use a more specially defensive Corviknight; Kyurem cannot break specially defensive Corviknight + Chansey. Gengar generally doesn't run Poison STAB and as such you can definitely beat it with the combination of Gastrodon and Unaware Clefable. Manaphy can be beaten by Gastrodon, if it isn't running Energy Ball, and Shedinja is another solid option available. Kartana can be a tricky Pokemon to tackle, but Unaware Clefable is ironically pretty good at beating setup sets and making smart switches into Mega Sableye, Corviknight, and Zapdos can for sure help. Heatran is particularly difficult to deal with at the start of the game because you have to guess which set it is; if its Grassium Z, Gastrodon loses, but Chansey beats it, if it's any other set Gastrodon will beat it, but Chansey can lose. Moltres is a solid potential option to beat Heatran, but it mandates Heal Bell support. Mega Mawile can be beaten by burning it with Sableye, Alomomola, and Toxapex, after which Unaware Clefable can easily switch into it. Iron Defense Skarmory is also a good check.

Stall teams cannot cover everything at once, but they have the means to adapt to any stallbreaker. I oftentimes see players worrying about losing to a certain variation of stall, and the main tip I've got for you is that you should really just prepare for the main stall teams that are being used. Trying to prepare for every single variation will often harm your team much more than it'll do good for it.

 

[jorm201]

Pyukumuku (F) @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Block
- Recycle
- Rest
- Recover


Compared to Spite/Rocly Helmet, Leppa and Recycle lets it pp stall more walls than one. With Max sp.def it can take on more sp. attackers like Volcarona, Mega Venusaur, and Amoongus. Look out for Knock Off, especially from Gliscor, who it can't out-stall without leppa.

 

[Solaros & Lunaris]

NDWC Week 1: Usage Stats Review
​

The Top Cat

The king has returned to its former glory, as Landorus-T takes the #1 spot in the usage stats, appearing on 11 of the 24 teams and in 9 out of 12 games. There really isn’t much to say here; Landorus-T is one of the best glues in the tier, and it would be far easier to say what it can’t do than what it can. As expected, a majority of the Landorus-T were Choice Scarf, however some defensive and eve suicide lead sets were seen. Interestingly, none of the Landorus-T were offensive Z-sets.

The Twins

With their usage combined, Slowbro and Slowking appeared on 10 teams, with Slowbro becoming the 2nd most used Pokemon in the week alongside Magearna. Their combined 70% winrate shows that FuturePort is still a strong strategy. Interestingly, more experimental Future Sight abusers, like Choice Specs Kyurem, were seen on occassion, but they often had middling success, especially when compared to the high effectiveness of more standard picks like Mega Medicham and Heavy-Duty Boots Cinderace.

Magearna

To say there were alot of Magearna sets this week would be quite the understatement. Almost every set that made an appearance was significantly different from each other. Specs, KissPower, CM Split, SG + Fightinium Z, and Heart Swap all made their presence known, showing that the robot isn’t loosening its iron grip on the metagame.

The Other Ground Type

This is probably the reason we saw little Z-Landorus-T usage. Offensive Garchomp took advantage of the several slower builds we saw this week, several of whom excluded Mega Latias. This meant that Garchomp took no issues with using Rockium Z and dismantling Pokemon like Clefable and Tapu Fini. Its ability to act as an intermediate Heatran and Cinderace probably helped out as well. We even saw a Scale Shot Mega Garchomp outside of HO, which was interesting.

The Big Birds

This is a usage stat I actually find to be really interesting. Corviknight’s ability to check much of what Zapdos can while providing U-turn, a Toxic immunity, and no need to run Heavy-Duty Boots have made it the better overall Defogger in many people’s eyes. But here, the tables have flipped; not only did Zapdos see much more use than Corviknight, it also had a higher raw winrate. We even saw Zapdos experimentation with Hidden Power Ice. All of this leads me to believe that Zapdos is down, but not out, and may find a distinct niche once more.

That’s all for this week, tune in next time to see what trends stay high and what trends say goodbye!

 

[jorm201]

Pyukumuku (F) @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Block
- Recycle
- Rest
- Recover


Compared to Spite/Rocly Helmet, Leppa and Recycle lets it pp stall more walls than one. With Max sp.def it can take on more sp. attackers like Volcarona, Mega Venusaur, and Amoongus. Look out for Knock Off, especially from Gliscor, who it can't out-stall without leppa.

STALL SLAYER CUCUMBER

Actually, Knock Off isn't as bad of an issue as I thought. I figured out if you pp drain your own recover, you can activate your leppa. Thus, it is safe inside the cucumber's belly and can't be Knocked Off. Then you're free to spam block indiscriminately, even if it's Magic Bounced back onto you, you can heal until Recover reaches zero again and, as long as you're slower, you can use Leppa and eat in the same turn. Rinse and repeat and this Pyuku can destroy all of stall except maybe Zapdos and Tangrowth, but if it isn't critted it can survive Tangrowth a large portion of the time:

0 SpA Tangrowth Giga Drain vs. 246 HP / 50 SpD Pyukumuku through Light Screen: 67-81 (21.4 - 25.9%) -- 1.9% chance to 4HKO

Here is a replay of the set

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-1294803747-rz9rjr94u0u5whtvq1vp3f2r6v7rvn7pw

 

[theotherguytm]

STALL SLAYER CUCUMBER

Actually, Knock Off isn't as bad of an issue as I thought. I figured out if you pp drain your own recover, you can activate your leppa. Thus, it is safe inside the cucumber's belly and can't be Knocked Off. Then you're free to spam block indiscriminately, even if it's Magic Bounced back onto you, you can heal until Recover reaches zero again and, as long as you're slower, you can use Leppa and eat in the same turn. Rinse and repeat and this Pyuku can destroy all of stall except maybe Zapdos and Tangrowth, but if it isn't critted it can survive Tangrowth a large portion of the time:

0 SpA Tangrowth Giga Drain vs. 246 HP / 50 SpD Pyukumuku through Light Screen: 67-81 (21.4 - 25.9%) -- 1.9% chance to 4HKO

Here is a replay of the set

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-1294803747-rz9rjr94u0u5whtvq1vp3f2r6v7rvn7pw

Hi, glad you're having fun with this set! However, it is strictly outclassed by the following set:
Pyukumuku @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: Variable
IVs: 0 Atk
- Block
- Soak
- Toxic
- Recover
The use of Soak and Toxic together allows Pyukumuku to poison almost every Pokemon in the game. This is a much more efficient means of trapping Pokemon than PP stall, since Pyukumuku does not have a way to boost its defences. Sitting there for X turns waiting to get crit is a recipe for disaster. Not having to use Leppa Berry also allows the use of Leftovers, which allows Pyukumuku to defensively check (and therefore trap) more Pokemon and not be crippled by burns. Finally, having Toxic makes Pyukumuku less passive in general and less likely to be a free switch-in for Nat Dex's many very dangerous breakers that 2HKO it with ease.
Pyukumuku, as a passive Unaware Pokemon, fits naturally on stall, with its trapping capabilities making it a potential wincon against other stall teams. Good teammates for it include:
Rillaboom checks and other Pokemon that cover its weaknesses.
Checks to Stored Power users that might try and use it as setup bait.
A cleric to remove poison and other status from it.
A Magic Bounce user or some other Pokemon that does not mind Taunts.
A hazard remover to undo any long-term damage trapped Pokemon might do.
Hope this helps!
Edit: If you specifically want a PP staller:
Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: Variable
IVs: 0 Atk
- Block
- Spite
- Recover
- Scald/Knock Off
This set is much more useful for things other than trapping, and is a good fit on certain balances, as well as semi-stall.

 

[jorm201]

Hi, glad you're having fun with this set! However, it is strictly outclassed by the following set:
Pyukumuku @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: Variable
IVs: 0 Atk
- Block
- Soak
- Toxic
- Recover
The use of Soak and Toxic together allows Pyukumuku to poison almost every Pokemon in the game. This is a much more efficient means of trapping Pokemon than PP stall, since Pyukumuku does not have a way to boost its defences. Sitting there for X turns waiting to get crit is a recipe for disaster. Not having to use Leppa Berry also allows the use of Leftovers, which allows Pyukumuku to defensively check (and therefore trap) more Pokemon and not be crippled by burns. Finally, having Toxic makes Pyukumuku less passive in general and less likely to be a free switch-in for Nat Dex's many very dangerous breakers that 2HKO it with ease.
Pyukumuku, as a passive Unaware Pokemon, fits naturally on stall, with its trapping capabilities making it a potential wincon against other stall teams. Good teammates for it include:
Rillaboom checks and other Pokemon that cover its weaknesses.
Checks to Stored Power users that might try and use it as setup bait.
A cleric to remove poison and other status from it.
A Magic Bounce user or some other Pokemon that does not mind Taunts.
A hazard remover to undo any long-term damage trapped Pokemon might do.
Hope this helps!
Edit: If you specifically want a PP staller:
Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: Variable
IVs: 0 Atk
- Block
- Spite
- Recover
- Scald/Knock Off
This set is much more useful for things other than trapping, and is a good fit on certain balances, as well as semi-stall.

Thank you for responding!

Soak/Toxic isn't very good, and Spite PP stalling is actually the more favored set according to the community. Soak and Toxic fail vs Gliscor and pokemon that use sub.

Pyuku generally doesn't care to boost its defenses because it has Unaware.

Leppa gives Pyuku infinite health and rests, removing status.

I'm not sure I agree with your use of the word efficient. The leppa set achieves maximum productivity, however, every game will be hundreds of turns long. I happen to love PP stalling, but I understand the argument on why it could be boring.

I would argue that even with crits, spamming recover will negate the damage. The leppa set literally beats everything on stall except Zapdos.

This set also counters Keldeo, Charizard X, and anything that can't taunt, 2hko, or has Mold Breaker/Terravolt. That honestly narrows it down to grass, electric, and pokemon with Choice items or life-orb.


My aim is to add Pyuku onto the Gen 7 anti-stall Compendium

Here is a second replay where it 6-0's stall.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-1295186846-nkyid2xfjsmpjhefi143ekaby2ak5j7pw

 

[theotherguytm]

Soak/Toxic isn't very good, and Spite PP stalling is actually the more favored set according to the community. Soak and Toxic fail vs Gliscor and pokemon that use sub.

Toxic basically means it's not dead weight every time it can't trap a mon, and also not setup bait for every mon that beats it. I agree Soak is optional, but it provides utility in poisoning Pokemon that otherwise are immune to it. There are plenty of other Pokemon that can check Gliscor, and the rest aren't bait for Stallbreaker Gliscor with Taunt. While Sub is a valid concern, stall in general has issues with Sub, and Toxic provides far too much utility too more matchups than just stall V stall. I'd be more worried about Taunt, as that just shuts Pyuk down whatever funny set you've thought of.

yuku generally doesn't care to boost its defenses because it has Unaware.

Actually, boosted defences are exactly what it needs to reliably PP stall, see Goth in Ubers. It doesn't have that, which makes it more likely to drop to crit+standard hit.

Leppa gives Pyuku infinite health and rests, removing status.

Leppa does not give you Leftovers. Leftovers are kinda good. Also all good stall teams have a cleric anyway.

I'm not sure I agree with your use of the word efficient. The leppa set achieves maximum productivity, however, every game will be hundreds of turns long.

No, it doesn't. It simply maximises the stall matchup at the expense of everything else. eg: a well played Pyuk should be a big threat to Offense, since it ignores their setup attempts. But without Toxic to put sweepers and hazard setters on a timer, Pyuk is just setup bait ironically enough,as it just sits there watching Spikes go up or its check getting free setup turns.

The leppa set literally beats everything on stall except Zapdos.

Yeah but what if not every opponent I face uses stall. Also this is flatly untrue because stall players can use Taunt too.

This set also counters Keldeo, Charizard X, and anything that can't taunt, 2hko, or has Mold Breaker/Terravolt. That honestly narrows it down to grass, electric, and pokemon with Choice items or life-orb.

Interesting you mention Keldeo because when it's seen in OU it always has Taunt AND Sub for Toxapex. You also didn't mention Stored Power users, who kinda run the metagame at the moment. Having Toxic at least lets you put them on a timer (and having Soak lets you do it to Magearna).
252 SpA Diancie-Mega Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Pyukumuku: 144-171 (45.8 - 54.4%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Diancie-Mega Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Pyukumuku: 144-171 (45.8 - 54.4%) -- 6.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Pyukumuku: 142-168 (45.2 - 53.5%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Pyukumuku: 142-168 (45.2 - 53.5%) -- 33.2% chance to 2HKO
It's things like this why you run Leftovers btw. Lefties let Pyuk check more things, which is more useful than maximising the stall mirror (and standard trapper Pyku with Soak or Spite does great against stall already).

Here is a second replay where it 6-0's stall.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-1295186846-nkyid2xfjsmpjhefi143ekaby2ak5j7pw

Yes, your opponent had no measures for the stall mirror and you did. I could go into detail about the many problems the team you have there has, but I'll just say you probably should just stick with standard Pyuk to be able to damage things. Hope this clears things up.