Resource National Dex Metagame Discussion v2

Now that Metagross-Mega, Urshifu, Ash-Greninja, Tornadus-Therian and Darmanitan-Galar are out of Natdex, a lot is going to change and new pokemons that will emerge with great force. I have to admit that after the ban on the 5, the goal became a little healthier. However, there are still several threats present. one of them being more problematic than the others.




Dracovish. It is not the first time that they talk about this pokemon and it probably won't be the last.

It has two main sets, one with choise band and one with choise scarf. with Scarf he is faster than several pokemons, one of them lopunny-mega being the second fastest pokemon in Natdex. 409 may not seem like much, but it is enough that the only pokemon faster than that, with the exception of other scarfs, is Dragapult.

while with Choise Band he becomes an absurd wall destroyer, there is no safe entrance to it. any pokemon suffers from Dracovish, and there is no usable water immunity to guarantee this. its tufts have a hard time facing it.

252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 164-193 (40.5 - 47.7%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 248 HP / 16 Def Tapu Fini: 233-274 (67.9 - 79.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 226-268 (57.3 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 179-211 (45.4 - 53.5%) -- 40.2% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 221-261 (41.3 - 48.8%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 158-186 (44.8 - 52.8%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 190-224 (62.5 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 141-167 (46.3 - 54.9%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

as you can see, Choise band Dracovish has a great power and the situation only gets worse in the rain.

252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth in Rain: 246-290 (60.8 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 248 HP / 16 Def Tapu Fini in Rain: 349-411 (101.7 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro in Rain: 269-317 (68.2 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn in Rain: 237-279 (67.3 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola in Rain: 332-391 (62.1 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex in Rain: 212-250 (69.7 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

Certainly, with the ban of 5 pokemon, Dracovish becomes even more popular and problematic than before. Maybe you can have a Suspect Test of this depending on how everything develops.
A Pokemon being good doesn’t mean its suspect worthy and a wall of calcs doesn’t prove a Pokemon is broken.

The problem with Dracovish is that it makes more more compromises when choosing sets and the weaknesses of both show up more often than before.

Yes, Dracovish is fast when you slap a choice scarf of it, but you have to slap a choice scarf on in to get Dracovish that fast, which comes at a large power cost of power, which is more noticeable here than in SWSH pre-DLC, and you can say a lot of Pokemon are fast with a choice scarf since it’s an item that boosts your speed by a fair amount compared to non-Choice Scarf users. Not to mention that Dracovish needs to be Jolly nature to reach 409 Speed, which something like Toxapex will be 3HKO’d by Psychic Fangs.

Yes, Dracovish 2HKOs a lot of walls with Choice Band and being in Rain, but it’s much easier to keep Dracovish off the field and alternative weathers are much easier to utilize thanks to better setters and especially now that Ash-Greninja and Tornadus-T are gone, making Rain a lot less viable.

There is also the issue of more priority users in NatDex that nullify the double power in Fishious Rebd, having far more viable checks, having actual non-Water Immune counters like Mega Slowbro, there existing scarier Pokemon in the Meta now, and the Meta is going to be drastically different now that 5 top tiers were banned.

At least wait a few days before calling to ban a Pokemon that’s Currently B Ranked, especially when the thing that changed was removing some of its buddies. It hasn’t even been a full week since those 5 Pokemon were banned.


In unrelated news (or sort of related I guess);

In case you didn’t know, Abomasnow received Grassy Glide, making Mega Abomasnow one of the strongest abusers of this Priority move (assuming no Item Boost), which gives Abomasnow priority for both it’s STABs, helping Mega Abomasnow with one of its worst attributes. It’s also a priority move that isn’t useless in Psychic Terrain either.
This won’t be Metagame defining, but it will be a pretty decent combo to consider since Abomasnow could potentially be viable.

Yeah after playtesting, Abomasnow is just shit.
 
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Just to add to my earlier stats look, some examples of the Nat Dex ladder in action:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1148663109 (rated 1600)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1125136119 (rated 1799)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1148690995 (rated 1650)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1148667678 (rated 1691)
+1 20 SpA Blacephalon Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 276-325 (90.7 - 106.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1092395194 (rated 1799)
...Some improvement required.
To experience this feeling of cringe for yourself, search "[Gen 8] National Dex]" on the Showdown replay site, or view a Nat Dex battle of minimum 1500 Elo.
 
What are some offensive counterplay to DD Sub Dragapult?
After 1 Dragon Dance or Substitute up, the only way you're revenge killing it what so ever is if you have a Fairy or Steel to bait out a Never-Ending Nightmare, which is likely going to kill anything that isn't Normal, Dark, or incredibly bulky, then make sure your Fairy or Steel type is healthy enough to survive 2 Phantom Forces or survive 1 while also breaking/hitting behind sub.
Defensive counterplay does exist, like Toxapex, but it's somewhat limited since Walls really can't do much of anything to Dragapult either.
 
What are some offensive counterplay to DD Sub Dragapult?
After 1 Dragon Dance or Substitute up, the only way you're revenge killing it what so ever is if you have a Fairy or Steel to bait out a Never-Ending Nightmare, which is likely going to kill anything that isn't Normal, Dark, or incredibly bulky, then make sure your Fairy or Steel type is healthy enough to survive 2 Phantom Forces or survive 1 while also breaking/hitting behind sub.
Defensive counterplay does exist, like Toxapex, but it's somewhat limited since Walls really can't do much of anything to Dragapult either.
I'd say heavily chipping it down while it sets up a Dance is key. Most of them are Adamant because Jolly lacks a lot of power even after a dance, meaning its outsped by Mega Lopunny despite its higher speed tier. It can run train on teams behind a sub, but against more offensive teams, it really can't ever get that sub up to begin with due to its relative frailty. The only thing thats fast enough to revenge kill it after a dance is priority, but a scarfer that easily prevents it from setting up is Greninja. With a little SP ATK investment you're guaranteed to OHKO after rocks.
 
Just to add to my earlier stats look, some examples of the Nat Dex ladder in action:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1148663109 (rated 1600)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1125136119 (rated 1799)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1148690995 (rated 1650)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1148667678 (rated 1691)
+1 20 SpA Blacephalon Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 276-325 (90.7 - 106.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1092395194 (rated 1799)
...Some improvement required.
To experience this feeling of cringe for yourself, search "[Gen 8] National Dex]" on the Showdown replay site, or view a Nat Dex battle of minimum 1500 Elo.

You have got to be kidding me . U are out here peddaling this pokemon but nobody is talking about the real sleeper hit of this tier which is Mega-Diancie. i have got many a player on the ladder calling fuckin booshit when i have swepe them 6-0 with this pokemon. to comprehend with that, it has fantastic stats and two stabs which are amazing offensive coverage in this tier, it makes u want to say to the ladder players smd and beg for win. i hope to see it raise up on the viability rankings but i find the criterion of this listing the requirements have been changing nearly every week which kind of becomes reductant, but i hope for a push . this is the set i have been using:


Diancie @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Diamond Storm
- Earth Power

near flawless coverage for the pace of this tier, im telling you this has the potential to 6-0 many players on mid-high ladder, not even counting the prickbois on the bottom of the ladder . a lot of the top mons on the viability ranking fall to this beast and its just like LOL this kid is done . total sleeper hit . does anyone else have the experience using this mon to great succ ess?
 

Bobsican

Powerscaler at heart
is a Tiering Contributor
You have got to be kidding me . U are out here peddaling this pokemon but nobody is talking about the real sleeper hit of this tier which is Mega-Diancie. i have got many a player on the ladder calling fuckin booshit when i have swepe them 6-0 with this pokemon. to comprehend with that, it has fantastic stats and two stabs which are amazing offensive coverage in this tier, it makes u want to say to the ladder players smd and beg for win. i hope to see it raise up on the viability rankings but i find the criterion of this listing the requirements have been changing nearly every week which kind of becomes reductant, but i hope for a push . this is the set i have been using:


Diancie @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Diamond Storm
- Earth Power

near flawless coverage for the pace of this tier, im telling you this has the potential to 6-0 many players on mid-high ladder, not even counting the prickbois on the bottom of the ladder . a lot of the top mons on the viability ranking fall to this beast and its just like LOL this kid is done . total sleeper hit . does anyone else have the experience using this mon to great succ ess?
First of all, how high were your opponents in ladder? As Mega Diancie is totally unreliable in the current meta, not only it's Mega Scizor and Rillaboom bait, but it lacks recovery and legitimate defensive usability out of a mediocre typing. Even then, we all know that ladder is wack (Seriously, Hydreigon is UUBL technically, yet it's actually a top tier threat, for example). Please don't limit yourself to ladder and try more matches against opponents with legitimate teams on tours and so on then share some replays, as I can also see the good side of M-Diancie with unresisted coverage and good mixed offenses, at least with heavy team support, as we also know too it isn't splashable in teams at all for the before-mentioned reasons plus also getting a lot of competition for a mega slot.
 

Padstar34

formerly FlygonNo.1
is a Tiering Contributor
First of all, how high were your opponents in ladder? As Mega Diancie is totally unreliable in the current meta, not only it's Mega Scizor and Rillaboom bait, but it lacks recovery and legitimate defensive usability out of a mediocre typing. Even then, we all know that ladder is wack (Seriously, Hydreigon is UUBL technically, yet it's actually a top tier threat, for example). Please don't limit yourself to ladder and try more matches against opponents with legitimate teams on tours and so on then share some replays, as I can also see the good side of M-Diancie with unresisted coverage and good mixed offenses, at least with heavy team support, as we also know too it isn't splashable in teams at all for the before-mentioned reasons plus also getting a lot of competition for a mega slot.
Yeah actually mega diance really isn't very good. It can beat like zapdos and... thats it... Mega Diance has the same speed tier as megagross, but with worse offenses, worse bulk and worse defensive typing and coverage, and it doesn't even have power gem to compliment its actually usable special movepool, unlike its physical one. Diance is also victim to an awful matchup to the metagame, with it either not having good enough offence for slower threats like pex and gliscor, and being too frail to take on faster mons like cinderace and lopunny.
 
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Bobsican

Powerscaler at heart
is a Tiering Contributor
You absolute fool. You absolute buffoon. This man has said he was MID-HIGH ladder. That means you should be able to predict their elo EXACTLY. People like you make me sick. HOW DARE YOU QUESTION THIS MAN WHEN HE TOLD YOU EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW! Also imagine being good enough for tours haha haaaaa. And again you give an example of your mass-cretin-ness? Mega Diance is just that good that it does well against uh um it does well as a kyurem check? oh of course, it can check heatran! It checks magnezone too... Unless they are scarf... Oh and Hydreigon! Thats good right..? oh but if they are scarf they don't...

Yeah actually mega diance really isn't very good. It can beat like zapdos and... thats it... Mega Diance has the same speed tier as megagross, but with worse offenses, worse bulk and worse defensive typing and coverage, and it doesn't even have power gem to compliment its actually usable special movepool, unlike its physical one. Diance is also victim to an awful matchup to the metagame, with it either not having good enough offence for slower threats like pex and gliscor, and being too frail to take on faster mons like cinderace and lopunny.
Actually, Diancie does get Power Gem, but Diamond Storm generally is preffered to not be Chansey bait while also having better STAB and an usable potential side effect.
But yeah, Mega Diancie looks far better on paper than what it actually is, at least it shines in Nat Dex UU from what I've heard, however.
 
Not sure whether there really is any room to argue here. While it is still by no means popular, as it is scared of a certain omnipresent gorilla drummer who does NOT get suspect tested, Kaname Madoka mega diancie has DEFINITELY increased in viability since the ban of mega metagross and ash gren.

Not only can it set up rocks to pressure the foe due to how diancie tends to force switches like it always does, but it has now become an excellent double switcher, notably preying on the otherwise quite annoying ZAPDOS and the increasingly viable mega charizard y(Thank that gorilla).

Its signature move, diamond storm, has 50% chance to raise its defense by two stages, which lets it survive a choice band high jump kick from a red rabbit and moonblast it to dust later on in the game, which can be absolutely crucial, provided ur a lucky man who can grab the 50% and not get crit, unlike me.

And oh, as there are fewer shurikens and punches flying around now, you can give up ur rocks and switch to rock polish...(still
rock type technically LOL) then it can serve as a pretty good late game cleaner, capable enough to sweep through offensive teams not prepared for it, tho u still have to be wary of fat mons and of coz, some ape's grassy surge.

Anyways, definitely an underrated mon with lots of potential in this post ban meta.
1595593743939.png
 
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Rotom-Heat @ Firium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Overheat
- Nasty Plot
I have had success with this rotom-heat set. I like rotom because its only weaknesses are rock and water. From what ive seen, people dont run many offensive rock or water moves so usually rotom isnt threatened to get ohko or 2hko. Nasty plot+inferno overdrive 1 shots 95% of the meta, even if they resist fire. Only chansey and bulky waters are thing i think can survive of the top of my head and waters get rekt by tbolt. Rotom heat is a good partner for Tapu-Koko. This is the set i run for it.
Tapu Koko @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Volt Switch
- Dazzling Gleam
- Defog
Tapu koko is usually my lead. If their lead is something that had earthquake or any other ground move or fairy weak moves, I volt switch into Rotom-Heat who can do a lot of damage before getting taken down.
 

Guard

حرروا فلسطين
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Hello everyone! After extensively playing the Ash-Greninja metagame, I wanted to outline the situation as I see it right now and figured this is a more appropriate place than the suspect thread to jot down my thoughts since I’ll be talking about some topics that aren’t necessarily related to Ash-Greninja.

:sm/greninja-ash:

I genuinely do not know what to think of this Pokemon. As a ‘standalone’ Pokemon, I do not believe it is broken in the slightest; there is plenty of splashable and sustainable counterplay to it in all playstyles and they generally do a fine job at keeping its wallbreaking at bay. However, whenever I judge it as a ‘team-player’, I cannot help but question whether Ash-Greninja’s place in the metagame is truly healthy.

Outside of Tapu Fini matchups, there really isn’t any matchup where Ash-Greninja doesn’t have the potential to contribute heavily to the overall outcome of a victory. The culprit at the source of this is often neither Ash-Greninja’s individual wallbreaking prowess mid-game, nor its late-game cleaning prowess; it’s the effectiveness and progress-making of Spikes. From the second Ash-Greninja was freed, it enlarged the presence and prominence of Spikes, not only because it is such an effective setter itself, but also due to Ferrothorn de facto becoming a more splashable pick by virtue of being a good check to Ash-Greninja. The prominence of Spikes, in combination with Zapdos, Corviknight, and Tapu Fini being easily pressured by our most prominent Stealth Rock setters (Garchomp, Z-Move Heatran, Calm Mind Clefable, & Landorus-T), worsens a persistent imbalance between entry hazard setters and removers. It also jeopardizes the overall balance between offense and defense by giving more opportunities to make progress against defensive cores that, as things stand, are already being bombarded by an army of hard-to-check wallbreakers like Hydreigon, Mega Mawile, Mega Medicham, Kyurem, and Cinderace. One may argue that this isn’t that big of an issue due to how common Heavy-Duty Boots pivots like Slowbro, Blissey, and Cinderace are. This is hardly a fool-proof method of tackling the issue, though, because every team packs at least one Knock Off user and, most importantly, because it just isn’t realistic to expect every Spikes-prone Pokemon to wear Heavy-Duty Boots. Some, like Mega Scizor and Mega Tyranitar, simply cannot do this, whereas for others, such as Ferrothorn and Heatran, running Heavy-Duty Boots comes with a significant opportunity cost. For these reasons, I cannot entirely accept that this is an appropriate time to give an incentive for a potential shift to a Spikes-heavy metagame, that incentive being the reintroduction of Ash-Greninja.

I’ve never really felt this conflicted about a suspect test before. The suspect test will be concluding after a few days and I still don’t really have a decisive opinion on Ash-Greninja (leaning ban for now though), so I’m still debating whether or not I should finish getting reqs.

:sm/cinderace:

Such doubts entirely vanish when I assess Cinderace’s position in the metagame; I think it’s hands down the most prominent offensively oriented Pokemon, and at times even shows signs of being too much to handle. Foremost, I think there’s a very apparent lack of sustainable counterplay to Cinderace. There is quite literally no Pokemon that can handle both Heavy-Duty Boots sets and Bulk Up + Z-Move sets. Heatran drops to High Jump Kick or a +2 Black Hole Eclipse, and has no means of punishing U-turn. Gliscor fares well against Heavy-Duty Boots sets, but is setup bait for Bulk Up sets. Landorus-T lacks the longevity to switch in more than twice to any variant and is crippled beyond repair by a Pyro Ball burn. Toxapex drops to Shattered Psyche or a Zen Headbutt into Slowbro’s Future Sight, and can’t really punish Cinderace without Baneful Bunker. Slowbro can’t take +1 Black Hole Eclipse, it doesn’t respond well to a Gunk Shot poison, and cannot entirely recover off U-turn damage with Regenerator. Hippowdon, admittedly, is the best check available, but is far from a safe one; Heavy-Duty Boots sets can fish for a Pyro Ball burn or a Gunk Shot poison, whereas Bulk Up sets easily use it as setup bait if it forgoes Whirlwind. My second gripe with Cinderace is how hard it is to properly punish its most common set in Heavy-Duty Boots. It entirely ignores entry hazard damage, easily escapes and eases undesirable matchups with a fast and strong U-turn, and ignores Rocky Helmet damage whenever it’s trying to hax its checks with Pyro Ball or Gunk Shot. Thirdly, although probably least importantly, it’s also noteworthy to mention that it can flip the matchup against some Speed control options (Mega Lopunny, Ash-Greninja not locked into Water Shuriken, Weavile) with Choice Scarf as long as it can bluff another set, although Choice Scarf in itself is far from unhealthy. All in all, I think Cinderace is very clearly one of the top dogs of the metagame, and with Pokemon like Ash-Greninja, Future Sight Slowbro, and Dracovish at its side, this has only become more apparent.

:sm/dracovish:

Speaking of Dracovish, I think Choice Band sets are extremely potent in the current metagame and are possibly entering unhealthy territory as well. With Pokemon like Clefable, Heatran, Gliscor, and Corviknight being defensive cornerstones in a lot of teams, Dracovish really doesn’t suffer from a lack of opportunities anymore. Furthermore, Slowbro, which used to be one of its most common checks, is forgoing Leftovers for Heavy-Duty Boots, which now makes it a flimsy check at best, whereas Ferrothorn can’t afford to run physically defensive sets anymore due to Ash-Greninja. Dracovish also heavily enjoys the relatively slow metagame compared to a few months ago, and is another prime benefactor of the prominence of Spikes. If there’s ever a roadblock to Dracovish in current builds, it’s one of Baneful Bunker Toxapex, physically defensive Tangrowth, Mega Latias, or Gastrodon. However, none of these are great checks in the grand scheme of the metagame; Toxapex and Tangrowth cannot handle Dracovish + Future Sight Slowbro at all, Mega Latias is uncapable of switching into Choice Scarf under Rain, and Gastrodon is 2HKOed by Outrage, Crunch, or Psychic Fangs.

There’s a few additional Pokemon that I believe have picked up in viability lately (Mega Scizor, Future Sight Slowbro, Corviknight, Magnezone, Mega Medicham / Gallade / Heracross / Charizard Y), but these three were the most notable Pokemon that I wanted to address.
 

Zneon

uh oh
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Cinderace and Dracovish are pretty interesting and I want to go over the discussion a little further, so I'm going to be going over what trends I feel have gone to Cinderace's and Dracovish's favour and have make them somewhat difficult to deal, this is in no particular order.
Chapter #1: :heatran: :clefable: :gliscor: Abundance of Balance and Bulky Offense :heatran: :clefable: :gliscor:

This is definitely the first thing that comes to mind which contributes to why these 2 feel difficult to deal with in practice, since you usually need to keep them in mind. If we have to talk about the state of the metagame right now, its very slow, most teams are going to usually favour balance and bulky offense teams because they are easily the best archetype to use at the moment, with Pokemon such as Clefable, Heatran, Corviknight and Gliscor being cornerstones on almost any team, what does this mean? Well, wallbreakers like Mega Mawile, Hydreigon and especially Dracovish benefit heavily from this because they have more opportunities to come in and break through your team, however on Balance and Bulky offense teams, finding dedicated checks to them isn't hard whatsoever, but this is when Cinderace comes in. It's ability to take advantage of the slow and bulky meta by simply going for U-turn is incredible, as it can then pivot into a wallbreaker or a late-game setup sweeper like Dragapult and from there you can be in trouble. Especially when you add the fact that teams are forgoing speed control more often is a massive boon for Dracovish in my eyes, coupled with the state of the metagame and almost every team having a pivot and you have got a very potent Pokemon in the current metagame.

Chapter #2:
:slowbro: Future Sight Slowbro
:slowbro:


I feel Future Sight Slowbro being a great pick in the metagame right now is a huge boon to both these Pokemon. Baneful Bunker Toxapex has been a way to prevent both from taking advantage of it without getting crippled, and because of Slowbro; Toxapex simply cannot switch in without risking either taking a ton of damage from Future Sight, or just straight up being taken out by a Zen Headbutt or Fishious Rend into Future Sight. Because of this I feel Slowbro has an excellent spot on these types of teams as its able to make them both even harder to deal with than they actually are, especially when you add in Teleport into the mix, which not only brings them in freely but has amazing synergy with Cinderace's U-turn in wearing down Pokemon so they can be picked off late-game; Future Sight doesn't just hit Toxapex, even though its the best target, Tangrowth is also an amazing target for it. However I feel Future Sight Slowbro, combined with these 2 is able to force switches and give momentum to the user incredibly well, which is why this definitely deserves a mention. Speaking of Baneful Bunker Toxapex.

Chapter #3:
:toxapex: Baneful Bunker Toxapex
:toxapex:


This isn't really something that makes Cinderace and Dracovish harder to deal with, but something that makes them easier to deal with in practice. I've mention it already but Baneful Bunker Toxapex is able to cripple both with poison damage, not only that but it's able to scout both such as if Cinderace is Bulk Up + Z move or HDB 4 attacks for example. This move on Toxapex is something that has been emerging very frequently in order to deal with this core and it works incredibly well, however the problem is how it can lose to Future Sight Slowbro, which has been a great option on Slowbro and has been emerging very recently and an excellent partner for these two Pokemon. However I still feel this move is pretty important on Toxapex right now and I feel more people should definitely use it.

_ _ _

This is all I have for now, as for my opinion on Cinderace and Dracovish, I feel these two are incredibly potent in the metagame and potentially unhealthy, so I want to keep an eye on these two Pokemon just in case, as I feel they can be too much to handle in the future, but as of right now I'm on the fence if I want action to be taken on them, especially Cinderace, but I'm leaning towards no for now.
 
So, this is one of my first times using Smogon forums. It is an inevitability that I will have bad formatting, my apologies in advance.


The biggest counter that people bring up to "Ash-Greninja should be banned" takes is that "hey, it has counters", and to that I question the validity of these counters. For instance, one even Calm Clefable will not be able to take a Greninja assault over and over, let alone an Ash-Greninja one. And in the hands of a good player it isn't just a question of 'will they get a kill for Battle Bond', it is an inevitability over the course of any fight over 30 turns. Pokemon get weakened over time, that is just a fact. One that Ash-Greninja can and will abuse.

Its commonly cited counters include Chansey, Blissey, Tapu Fini, sometimes Hydreigon (though I swear that is a meme), and Toxapex. Of these checks, I'd only really consider two (maybe three) to be viable before Greninja, and I don't even think Toxapex is a good answer.

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 124-147 (40.7 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (124, 126, 127, 129, 130, 132, 133, 135, 136, 138, 139, 141, 142, 144, 145, 147)

Keep in mind that you can get flinched, which is kind of a meme since it feels like it always happens. While it is obviously not gonna happen all the time, if it is a 3HKO, I would not call it a good Ash-Greninja check. 20% chance to 100% beat it. And if Stealth Rocks are up or Toxapex has some chip? Goodbye!


Again, I swear Hydreigon is a meme, but even if people are legitimately using this as their answer to Ash-Greninja, that means that you are giving up a potentially great offensive threat against many many Pokemon simply to stave off a single.

That is sort of my point in general though. Why should every team have to dedicate a mon to Greninja? People point out Blissey, but no, not everyone uses Blissey on every single team, nor should they have to. Ash-Greninja alone boosts Tapu Fini's popularity through the roof since it at least has Defog support, but I question the validity of its viability as a result.

There is also the point that many have brought up that even if you have, say, a Blissey or Tapu Fini (no Chansey go back to sitting in the corner)- it can put up Spikes, or U-turn, or more. It isn't completely helpless because of a strong Special Defense wall.

I think I'm sort of just circling around at this point, but I hope this post was at least partially enjoyable to read.
 
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 124-147 (40.7 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (124, 126, 127, 129, 130, 132, 133, 135, 136, 138, 139, 141, 142, 144, 145, 147)
keep in mind ur calcing ash greninja, one of the best ways to counter gren is not not let it evolve.
 
I understand that point, but also there is an argument that we suspected Ash-Greninja, not regular Greninja. I don't pretend that Ash-Greninja is a standalone Pokemon, but we need to take into consideration on the calcs. Outside of Ash-Greninja, it isn't useless, just worse of course.
 
keep in mind ur calcing ash greninja, one of the best ways to counter gren is not not let it evolve.
While this is true, it's like saying "Just don't let Magearna kill something." It's easier to say than do, as Ash-Gren is excellent at pressuring the checks it has with Spikes, or enabling teammates to abuse them. Unless you have multiple checks and also have a very good Defogger, it sometimes boils down to a race to kill Ash-Gren's teammates before it finds a way through.
 

shadowpea

everyone is lonely sometimes
is a Tiering Contributor
Thing is, mons gets weakened over time, and to put it simply you can just keep Greninja healthy until there's a foe it can easily beat (e.g. at low health or statused). Then it can come in and try to kill it. If they switch, horray for some more chip! If they don't switch and you kill you transform and do your thing. Not to mention it have teammates to help. Eventually, mons gets so weakened that Greninja can easily secure a kill. This is unavoidable because through any battle mons gets weakened over time. So yeah, I agree with theotherguytm. It's even got spikes to rack up damage and can easily pressure defoggers trying to remove them.
 

Sputnik

Bono My Tires are Deceased
is a Contributor Alumnus
I would like to discuss the merits of a specific Tapu that, until very very recently, has been overlooked and cast off as a poor option in general.

:ss/tapu koko:
The History
It was realized very early on in the metagame that Tapu Koko was just not that good. The terrain nerf had hit it very hard (at the time the general consensus was that Bulu was viable, so at the time we all thought that Koko had been hit the worst of the four), and it had really stiff competition in the "fast pivoting department". The discovery of the Electrium Z Dragapult set put Koko out of the job almost overnight, and other pivots like Galarian Darmanitan gave Koko heavy competition in a role that it had previously excelled in. Even it's niche in supporting Hyper Offense teams with screens was taken, this time by Grimmsnarl. While Koko was still theoretically functional in a vacuum, its nerf and the fact that the meta trended towards bulky threats that it really didn't appreciate, such as the influx of bulky Grass-types that existed in a vain attempt to soft check Mega Blastoise and Ash-Greninja, did not help at all. Koko took advantage of the abundance of bulky Water-types, like Tapu Fini and Toxapex, however they were almost always paired with a teammate that completely stuffed Koko.

Koko began to scrape its way back into viability on two separate occasions; after everyone realized that Torn-T was arguaby the hardest Pokemon in the tier to out and out "Counter", Koko resurged a bit, with pivot sets being one of the very few reliable switch ins. It also supported certain threats that needed bulky Water-types out the way, such as Mega Metagross, Galarian Darmanitan, and Ash-Greninja, but overall it was still a very niche option. The second time was after all the bans went through. Jordy started to put Magnet variants on Rain teams with good success. Both of these niches disappeared soon after, however; Tornadus-T was banned, and then Ash-Greninja was unbanned, putting Koko out of the job instantly on rain teams.

Why Now?
Koko has a very specific, but genuinely good, niche that I believe deserves a little more recognition. With a pivoting set, as shown below, it dunks on many of the tier's common bulky Water-types. Not all of the common ones, as Gastrodon is pretty good and Seismitoed floats around with a small niche as well, but crucially it dunks on two of our best, namely Physically Defensive Toxapex and Future Sight Boots Slowbro.

Tapu Koko @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Electrium Z
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Grass Knot
- U-turn / Volt Switch
- Roost

Boots Koko is a hard to wear down pivot that still hits pretty hard, hits an excellent speed tier for the meta. Hidden Power Ice is necessary in order to hit the typical targets of Lando, Chomp, and Gliscor. U-turn is better than Volt Switch in my opinion, as U-turn is very free momentum and bulky Ground-types are popular in this meta. Roost keeps Koko healthy, obviously. Grass Knot is a hard to fit but potentially rewarding option that instead threatens Hippowdon and Gastrodon. Teams utilizing this option absolutely must be utilizing Ash-Greninja as the beneficiary of Koko's role, however, because Koko gives up its ability to hit the big three of HP Ice targets hard, something Ash-Greninja doesn't care about as much. Electrium Z is a less consistent but potentially higher reward option; it is nowhere near as easy to fit on a team, but teams with really solid, reliable hazard removal and no other Z user can potentially fit Electrium Z Koko.

Now, Koko has always done this job in some capacity, so why does it matter now?

The Partners
:ss/cinderace::ss/greninja-ash::ss/dracovish:
These three have, in a way, forced Koko back into relevance. One of the main perks of Baneful Bunker Toxapex is that it is one of only thing that can truly deal with offensive cores utilizing two of these three. With Baneful Bunker it can scout the intentions of Cinderace, semi reliably check and prevent Ash-Greninja from transforming even with a physically defensive spread, and take on Dracovish and even punish it for clicking Fishious Rend with a Baneful Bunker poison. Slowbro has also been on the rise, as it can beat some Cinderace and Dracovish sets, albeit less reliably.

Koko is a dream support for these threats. Pairing with all three isn't really buildable for obvious reasons, but even having just two of them is a potentially deadly team. Cinderace is the main one; it obviously benefits immensely from the threatening of Toxapex and Slowbro, which are often the main checks to it on any given team. The two also pair for a deadly pivoting core that is capable of consistently forcing damage onto the opposition when paired with a spikes setter. This can take the form of something like Ferrothorn, however, this naturally segways into partner #2

Ash-Greninja has very few counters, as it is known, and Koko puts immense pressure on many of them. The pairing of Cinderace, Ash-Greninja, and Tapu Koko is something that I have been messing around with, and while building around it is a little weird the payoff is immense. The three play off of each other's checks perfectly, with even semi reliable counters to the three of them, such as Gastrodon, getting Spiked on and worn down or taking a poison from Cinderace's Gunk Shot as the pivot in. Ash-Greninja also appreciates the threatening of Tapu Fini, while Koko gives them fast supporting options that can bust through Toxapex, Alomomola, and Mantine. With Spikes the situation can get really hairy quite quickly for the opposition.

Dracovish isn't quite the partner that the others are, but it's still a potent beneficiary of Koko's talents. Constantly forcing out Dracovish's counters, especially with hazard support, can wear down the bulky Water-types and Grass-types that are virtually the only way to consistently deal with the Vish. I recommend things that can force Knock Off onto Boots Slowbro be paired with this, as it can very easily be forced into Vish range after a round of hazards or two.

Conclusion
Use Koko. It's good, and it is testament how new metas can bring in new (or old, depending on how you view it) faces.
 
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Goodbye & Thanks

Thrown in a fire?
I know very little about National Dex, but I've been fooling around with it lately and I've been surprised by how easily I've found success with Mega-Camerupt. I know it's not on the viability rankings and that it still has the same issues it's always had (super slow, easily pressured, takes up a Mega slot), but I was wondering if it's seen to have any niche at all? It's a Stealth Rock user that beats some of the most common Defoggers in Corviknight and Zapdos, and in general it's always been very difficult to switch into. It can also be a decent check to Volcarona with Rock Slide/Ancient Power (although Rock Slide is better just for Volc because you don't have to worry about the SpDef boosts), as well as Magearna and Tapu Koko. I get why it's not used much and I'm not arguing that it's underrated or anything; I'm just asking about it because I don't know a ton about this metagame.
 
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Sputnik

Bono My Tires are Deceased
is a Contributor Alumnus
I know very little about National Dex, but I've been fooling around with it lately and I've been surprised by how easily I've found success with Mega-Camerupt. I know it's not on the viability rankings and that it still has the same issues it's always had (super slow, easily pressured, takes up a Mega slot), but I was wondering if it's seen to have any niche at all? It's a Stealth Rock user that beats some of the most common Defoggers in Corviknight and Zapdos, and in general it's always been very difficult to switch into. It can also be a decent check to Volcarona with Rock Slide/Ancient Power (although Rock Slide is better just for Volc because you don't have to worry about the SpDef boosts), as well as Magearna and Tapu Koko. I get why it's not used much and I'm not arguing that it's underrated or anything; I'm just asking about it because I don't know a ton about this metagame.
Hey there, glad you've started to play National Dex!

To answer your question, Mega Camerupt, while technically having a niche, is not worth using at the moment. A slow Stealth Rocker with no recovery outside of wish support and that takes up your mega slot doesn't really have a place in the metagame. It loses to several extremely common offensive threats, and struggles greatly with the balances and bulky offenses that are revolving around Dracovish and Ash-Greninja. The fact that it barely checks Cinderace like once is not enough to give it a good matchup in this regard, as Cinderace can just U-turn and bring in one of the aforementioned threats. Camels defensive niche, while interesting, is also not really enough to give it a niche here. The checking of the aforementioned three is realistically done better by Blissey, and Ground-types such as Gliscor and Hippowdon are much easier to fit on a team. Furthermore, beating those Defoggers is not that unusual for our Stealth Rockers. Garchomp and Landorus-T, for example, can use their Z-sets to bust through the aforementioned threats, and those can also break Tapu Fini, which Camerupt loses incredibly hard to.

Overall, while Mega Camerupt might technically have a niche, its shortcomings are too vast and the niche is much too specific to be worth using in the current meta environment.
 

Goodbye & Thanks

Thrown in a fire?
Hey there, glad you've started to play National Dex!

To answer your question, Mega Camerupt, while technically having a niche, is not worth using at the moment. A slow Stealth Rocker with no recovery outside of wish support and that takes up your mega slot doesn't really have a place in the metagame. It loses to several extremely common offensive threats, and struggles greatly with the balances and bulky offenses that are revolving around Dracovish and Ash-Greninja. The fact that it barely checks Cinderace like once is not enough to give it a good matchup in this regard, as Cinderace can just U-turn and bring in one of the aforementioned threats. Camels defensive niche, while interesting, is also not really enough to give it a niche here. The checking of the aforementioned three is realistically done better by Blissey, and Ground-types such as Gliscor and Hippowdon are much easier to fit on a team. Furthermore, beating those Defoggers is not that unusual for our Stealth Rockers. Garchomp and Landorus-T, for example, can use their Z-sets to bust through the aforementioned threats, and those can also break Tapu Fini, which Camerupt loses incredibly hard to.

Overall, while Mega Camerupt might technically have a niche, its shortcomings are too vast and the niche is much too specific to be worth using in the current meta environment.
Alright, thank you! I knew Mega-Camerupt's general shortcomings but I wanted to hear a more detailed explanation of how it stands in the meta, and you did just that.
 
National Dex Premier League OU - Week 1 thoughts and observations
I'm going to be doing these every week where we look into whats been used and how the meta develops throughout the duration of the tour. If you want to find week 1's usage stats, they can be found here.

:ss/slowbro:
Slowbro finishes week 1 tied as the second most used Pokemon while also maintaining a solid win rate of just over 57%. While its overall presence was not that high, it has shown to be able to fit onto a variety of teams and be extremely useful by offering Teleport support to strong breakers such as Cinderace, as well as shoring up defensive backbones alongside Pokemon such as Blissey - forming a sort of Teleport defensive core. Slowbro's recent trend of running Future Sight is also a massive boon to common teammates in Cinderace and Ash Greninja, as that allows them to force out one of their best answers in Toxapex, making them very difficult to deal with. Below are some of what I consider the sort of teams that best utilize what Slowbro offers right now.

:cinderace::gliscor::clefable::lopunny-mega::ferrothorn::slowbro: - Used by temp
:blissey::mawile-mega::slowbro::dragapult::hippowdon::zapdos: - Used by HoodedZack
:greninja-ash::slowbro::blissey::garchomp::cinderace::corviknight: - Used by Ruft
:blissey::slowbro::mawile-mega::zapdos::garchomp::cinderace: - Used by Roginald

:ss/cinderace:
Cinderace ends week 1 with a monstrous 83% win rate, which while it was only used on 6 teams, definitely speaks to how strong it is right now. The vast majority(all but 1!) of Cinderace used this week opted to forgo the Z-move or Choice Scarf sets in lieu of the Heavy Duty Boots set that has become increasingly popular. Over half the Cinderace used this week were paired with a Slowbro with the biggest discrepancy between them all being which moves they chose to run between High Jump Kick, Gunk Shot, and Zen Headbutt (alongside Pyro Ball and U-turn ofc). While it is difficult to tell as not all moves were revealed, I would wager that the Cinderace ran alongside Slowbro were those which opted to drop Zen Headbutt, as they do not need to break Toxapex themselves. It's worth noting that the single Cinderace that did not run Heavy Duty Boots opted for a Darkinium Z set. As a lot of the Cinderace teams are also listed above, I want to highlight the teams where Cinderace was not paired with Slowbro below:

:tapu-koko::cinderace::ferrothorn::kyurem::gliscor::toxapex: - Used by Finchinator
:cinderace::greninja::toxapex::scizor-mega::gliscor::clefable: - Used by 64 Squares
As we can see these teams really do not need Slowbro to enable Cinderace to break through Toxapex, as they both have solid ways to overwhelm and switch into it with Sub Kyurem and Extrasensory Greninja, as well as Gliscors respectively. Both teams also have other ways to bring Cinderace in safely after luring in things that Cinderace beats in Tapu Koko and Mega Scizor.

:ss/gliscor:
We've seen quite a lot of Gliscor this week, but not in the way that has typically been standard. Many of the Gliscor used this week were not the Swords Dance Facade set that many of us are used to seeing. Instead, many Gliscor's this week opted to run utility options such as Defog, Stealth Rock, Toxic, and even U-turn in some situations. While all of these offer pretty good role compression for teams, I do not personally think its the best use for Gliscor, and as teams and players unfamiliar with the metagame "settle in", I expect to see it less in favor of the Swords Dance set.

:medicham-mega::toxapex::slowbro::weavile::gliscor::landorus-therian:- Used by Stareal
:heatran::tangrowth::weavile::gliscor::clefable::scizor-mega:- Used by Baconeatinassassin

:ss/sableye-mega: :ss/alomomola::ss/chansey:
Stall had a fairly strong showing this week despite falling off significantly since it was last strong in the post DLC pre-ban metagame. There have been some interesting techs in the stalls, for example we have seen Pokemon such as Moltres and Pyukumuku show up this week in an attempt to answer the extremely strong breakers in the meta we have currently, such as Mawile and Cinderace respectively. Finch did bring a purely NDUU Stall to a game that ended up in a tie which was interesting too. Here are the stalls we saw this week:

:sableye-mega::chansey::toxapex::skarmory::gastrodon::moltres: - Used by Chazm
:pyukumuku::gastrodon::magearna::zapdos::sableye-mega::chansey:- Used by Stresh
:muk-alola::sableye-mega::blissey::alomomola::quagsire::scizor:- Used by Finchinator
I actually expect to see more stall as the weeks go on and teams figure out techs to handle the breakers better and the meta develops. Right now though it is incredibly hard for these teams to play around Banded Dracovish with Gastrodon normally needing to be kept incredibly healthy and avoiding Outrage / Dragon Rush. Teams like Chazm's here that can initially pivot Toxapex into Dracovish and scout before going into Gastrodon are what I expect to see more of.

:ss/dracovish:
Something we didn't see too much of this week is Dracovish which is a surprise to me as it has been becoming more and more popular in the metagame as of late, particularly its Choice Band set paired with Pokemon such as Cinderace and Tapu Koko. In the games it was used,however, it put in an astonishing amount of work, even versus opposing teams with multiple checks to it. If there is anything I expect to see more of as this tournament progresses, it is Dracovish.

:cinderace::slowbro::dracovish::ferrothorn::tyranitar-mega::gliscor:- Used by Maki
:gengar::corviknight::clefable::heatran::dracovish::landorus-therian: - Used by Vaboh
 
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:ss/gliscor:
We've seen quite a lot of Gliscor this week, but not in the way that has typically been standard. Many of the Gliscor used this week were not the Swords Dance Facade set that many of us are used to seeing. Instead, many Gliscor's this week opted to run utility options such as Defog, Stealth Rock, Toxic, and even U-turn in some situations. While all of these offer pretty good role compression for teams, I do not personally think its the best use for Gliscor, and as teams and players unfamiliar with the metagame "settle in", I expect to see it less in favor of the Swords Dance set.
Honestly, IMO Gliscor is the best Defogger in the tier atm, the main downside of using it coming down to not getting the Swords Dance set. But the ability to semi-reliably switch into and clear Rocks from Chomp and Heatran cannot be underestimated.
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 244 HP / 52 Def Gliscor: 310-365 (88 - 103.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO (Adamant is a 81% KO)
252+ SpA Heatran Corkscrew Crash (160 BP) vs. 244 HP / 76 SpD Gliscor: 331-390 (94 - 110.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
Without their Z-moves they really struggle to touch it:
252+ SpA Heatran Flash Cannon vs. 244 HP / 76 SpD Gliscor: 166-196 (47.1 - 55.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal (Magma Storm is a 2HKO at this level of bulk though)
+4 252+ Atk Garchomp Stone Edge vs. 244 HP / 52 Def Gliscor: 283-334 (80.3 - 94.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
And with other checks to them available, Gliscor can further invest one way or the other to handle one of them better.

TL;DR: Gliscor is one of the best glues in the entire metagame, even better than Lando-T atm, and is seriously worth a strong consideration as a Defogger if your team needs reliable hazard control.
 

Zneon

uh oh
is a Community Contributoris a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnus
I want to add a few more observations or at least all onto some stuff that Jho already mentioned, and that is exactly what I am going to do so lets goooo.

:ss/slowbro: :ss/slowbro-mega:

Future Sight

I feel that Future Sight is the best it is ever been and its largely due to how well Pokemon such as Dracovish and Ash-Greninja abuse the move and how prominent they are. Slowbro's incredibly high usage in Week 1 of NDPL is just enough to show how good not just Future Sight is right now, but also of how effective and important Slowbro really is. I feel Slowbro is easily one of the most important Pokemon in the metagame right now and it is specifically how it is able to provide invaluable support to those offensive Pokemon by threatening their checks with Future Sight, which is of course, a huge boon to them, not only that but its ability to also switch into stuff and use that for momentum in Teleport opens up so many doors for those Pokemon.

While we are on the topic of Slowbro, lets talk about Mega Slowbro for a second, I feel its truly an excellent anti-meta Pokemon right now because it can deal with AceVish teams better than probably any Pokemon in the metagame right now, and also being able to provide Teleport and Future Sight support is incredibly valuable. I also want to mention how Mega Slowbro being able to not completely fall apart to Pursuit is huge since I feel Pursuit is also great right now. In my eyes Mega Slowbro is almost as important, if not just as important as Slowbro right now, it is an easy A+ mon in my opinion.

:ss/dracovish:

Dracovish

Dracovish is next which is showing its dominance in NDPL right now, and of course, its incredibly scary and in my eyes incredibly limiting right now. I'm sure you all know what Vish does, it completely kills everything in its path unless you are using a sturdy enough Water resist because with enough support, Dracovish can easily beat your Water resist, for reference, Dracovish has a chance at 2HKOing Slowbro at full HP if it gets the right roles, that's insane, and speaking of support, Dracovish needs pretty minimal support in order to do work, pivoting is required support for it but just with a safe switch in through a Teleport or U-turn it can claim a kill or a 2HKO on something, which is absolutely insane in my eyes and it sometimes get to where you are exclusively building to prevent VishAce from beating your team, Cinderace is a big component of that core however, Dracovish is a Pokemon that I feel is even harder to handle because you can remove Cinderace out of the picture and with support from stuff like Slowbro and Tapu Koko, who is making a big resurgence right now, Dracovish can still put a shit ton of work, its incredibly hard to deal with in both practice and when teambuilding as well and I don't expect it to get worse anytime soon.

:ss/ferrothorn: :ss/greninja-ash:

Spikes

I want to also address Spikes right now because its something that has been on the back of my mind when I look at the metagame. Spikes is of course, absolutely excellent. With stuff like Mega Mawile, Ash Greninja, Dracovish, Cinderace and Dragapult forcing switch ins left and right, Spikes are so punishing to pretty much any build, but especially bulky teams, which is what the metagame is completely comprised of right now, especially considering how these two Spikes setters, Ferrothorn and Ash Greninja, are incredibly valuable, excellent Pokemon in their own right so I'll just go over them. First there's Ferrothorn, the Pokemon is obviously the best Spiker in the metagame and its not hard to see why, it has excellent defensive utility with stuff like Knock Off, Leech Seed and Toxic being incredibly disruptive and annoying for many teams along with being able to switch into a ton of different Pokemon like Mega Scizor, utility Clefable or even Ash Greninja depending on the investment due to its amazing defensive typing. The Pokemon is simply incredibly splashable and consistent at what it does and usually you cannot really go wrong with using Ferrothorn. Next is Ash Greninja who tends to excel on the offensive spectrum rather than defensive, it differiatiates itself from Ferrothorn in the fact that it uses its ability to force switches to get up Spikes rather than switch into something to get them up since its frail, and it does it incredibly well with how hard it is to wall outside of a few Pokemon.

Thanks for reading!
 
Hello time to post nothing good.
:Rapidash-Galar:
The set for the mon
This mon may be pu but don't let that fool you to how good it is.

Why would you use it?
Theres only one difference between grapidash in ou then in natdex, Zmoves. Zmoves allows it to get the extra nudge to break a hole in the opposing team.
It OHKO's clef,gliscor and slowbro after an sd.
Of course with a lot of mons they may be threatening with a boost but find it very hard to get the moment to set up. Grapidash does not have this issue that much as it can threaten mons like garchomp and heatran thanks to its speed and fairy ground coverage.

If you think this sounds like another mon it is.
It's mgallade. Mgallade has many advantages over grapidash like actual bulk,better speed tier, inner focus and no reliance on magnezone. However grapidash has it's own benefits.
First of all it is much better against stall as while mgallade really cant do much against msable, grapidash utterly destroys it and pastel veil allows it to switch in on toxic and set up.
Second,grapidash doesn't take up a mega slot. While it does use the z slot this allows it to be paired with other megas like mzor.
 

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