https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-viability-rankings.3714511/post-10130802
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Metagame National Dex Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter Nashrock
- Start date
I think Raging Bolt genuinely does deserve a suspect. As someone who has used Raging Bolt to great success on rain, peaking top 20 on the ladder and consistently maintaining top 100 it genuinely has very very few checks that can't be worked around. Raging Bolt outside of rain undoubtedly has some checks in Ferrothorn, well played Gliscor, Iron Treads and Ting Lu, however gaining Weather Ball and Thunder inside of rain makes it an absolute menace - often claiming 4-5 kills in a single game.
It is a very simple predict to click Weather Ball on their ground type and not even the likes of max SpDef Ting Lu can survive the 2hko, with literally every other ground type in the tier other than Clodsire (which struggles to do much back) being OHKOd. From this point onwards, Thunder often claims 1-2 kills on top of the kill of the ground type, and in some games even more than this. The absolute unprecedented power of a 533 SpAtk (due to booster energy) mon using a 100% accurate STAB 110 base power move with a 30% paralysis chance becomes nearly impossible to switch in, and any revenge attempts can be deflected by a well timed Tera Fairy.
This leads to the ONLY defensive counterplay in the entire tier being: Water Absorb Clodsire, Chansey, Blissey, Mega Venusaur (to a degree) and Ferrothorn. This obviously creates some issues as 3 of these mons are almost exclusively used on stall. As someone who primarily builds balances with mons that have consistent recovery, I feel like its ridiculous to be forced to run a Ferrothorn on every single team. However if I do not then I am almost always forced to burn tera or sac a mon in the face of a Raging Bolt, not to mention that Ferrothorn is destroyed by Weather Ball Fire.
Some people argue that Raging Bolt's speed holds it back, however with the correct EVs, it can outspeed even some of the faster defensive threats in the meta such as Gliscor, Landorus T, and Heatran. Moreover, There is very little that can OHKO Raging Bolt, even with super effective damage, as even a max attack Landorus T is a roll to kill the standard spread even without tera. With tera being utilised, Raging Bolt can get out of bad matchups and often kill the opposing team's check to it in the process.
A similar mon to compare Raging Bolt to is Charizard Y. They both have similar roles as special attackers that put out insane offensive breaking power and have very limited defensive switchins, however Charizard Y is balanced by its undesirable typing leading it to be 4x weak to Stealth Rocks. And onn top of this, it has almost no set variety due to being item locked and being forced to almost always run Weather Ball/Solar Beam/Scorching Sands/Roost, and it is unable to tera. Raging Bolt does not have any of these issues, and often the gameplan for beating it is to simply not get outplayed.
All of these points combined with the set variety between Dragonium Z, Calm Mind, 4 Attacks booster energy and Weather Ball in either Rain or Sun as well as it's signature move Thunderclap leads you to constantly have to play risky guessing games or be forced to play perfectly or risk losing key defensive pokemon that often lead to your defensive structure being destroyed. However, as it would not be a good pitch without sharing both sides of the argument, Raging Bolt cannot run all of it's options at the same time, meaning that Weather Ball Fire is walled by Ting Lu, Weather Ball Water is walled by Ferrothorn, Calm Mind is walled by Clodsire, and Dragonium Z leads you to be unable to tera, therefore losing a lot of your defensive potential.
While I don't mean to say that Raging Bolt should be banned, I simply think that it should potentially be kept an eye on or suspected as it feels quite restrictive to current teambuilding. I personally love using the mon, it just does feel somewhat wrong to be getting such easy wins with it. I'm not going to get replays right now but if I need them to further my point then I will gladly get them.
Edit: As I have already heard people raising their pitchforks at me, I only talk about weather so much in this because that is my concern when it comes to bolt. I have used it a lot on rain and I have seen a lot of success - significantly more so than outside of it. I'm not trying to force my opinion or anything like that, I just saw metagame discussion with people talking about bolt and figured I would share my opinion on it. This wasn't neccesarily a full on metagame analysis on bolt, just my opinions of it in weather specifically as that is where I think it shines. I don't seriously expect people to actually see this and suspect it, I just wanted to spark some debate as I know this is a controversial topic.
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Weather Ball (100 BP Water) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu in Rain: 306-360 (59.5 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Thunder vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 181-214 (45.9 - 54.3%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Thunder vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 169-201 (24 - 28.5%) -- 97.5% chance to 4HKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Thunder vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 156-184 (23.9 - 28.2%) -- 94.3% chance to 4HKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Weather Ball (100 BP Water) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gliscor in Rain: 422-498 (119.2 - 140.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn in Sun: 632-748 (179.5 - 212.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Weather Ball (100 BP Water) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire in Rain: 350-414 (75.5 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Weather Ball (100 BP Water) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Iron Treads in Rain: 434-512 (113 - 133.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Weather Ball (100 BP Water) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran in Rain: 336-396 (87 - 102.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Dragon Pulse vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Venusaur-Mega: 177-208 (48.7 - 57.3%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Thunder vs. 248 HP / 128 SpD Scizor-Mega: 235-277 (68.5 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 64 HP / 28 Def Raging Bolt: 372-440 (91.4 - 108.1%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 64 HP / 28 Def Tera Fairy Raging Bolt: 186-220 (45.7 - 54%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO
It is a very simple predict to click Weather Ball on their ground type and not even the likes of max SpDef Ting Lu can survive the 2hko, with literally every other ground type in the tier other than Clodsire (which struggles to do much back) being OHKOd. From this point onwards, Thunder often claims 1-2 kills on top of the kill of the ground type, and in some games even more than this. The absolute unprecedented power of a 533 SpAtk (due to booster energy) mon using a 100% accurate STAB 110 base power move with a 30% paralysis chance becomes nearly impossible to switch in, and any revenge attempts can be deflected by a well timed Tera Fairy.
This leads to the ONLY defensive counterplay in the entire tier being: Water Absorb Clodsire, Chansey, Blissey, Mega Venusaur (to a degree) and Ferrothorn. This obviously creates some issues as 3 of these mons are almost exclusively used on stall. As someone who primarily builds balances with mons that have consistent recovery, I feel like its ridiculous to be forced to run a Ferrothorn on every single team. However if I do not then I am almost always forced to burn tera or sac a mon in the face of a Raging Bolt, not to mention that Ferrothorn is destroyed by Weather Ball Fire.
Some people argue that Raging Bolt's speed holds it back, however with the correct EVs, it can outspeed even some of the faster defensive threats in the meta such as Gliscor, Landorus T, and Heatran. Moreover, There is very little that can OHKO Raging Bolt, even with super effective damage, as even a max attack Landorus T is a roll to kill the standard spread even without tera. With tera being utilised, Raging Bolt can get out of bad matchups and often kill the opposing team's check to it in the process.
A similar mon to compare Raging Bolt to is Charizard Y. They both have similar roles as special attackers that put out insane offensive breaking power and have very limited defensive switchins, however Charizard Y is balanced by its undesirable typing leading it to be 4x weak to Stealth Rocks. And onn top of this, it has almost no set variety due to being item locked and being forced to almost always run Weather Ball/Solar Beam/Scorching Sands/Roost, and it is unable to tera. Raging Bolt does not have any of these issues, and often the gameplan for beating it is to simply not get outplayed.
All of these points combined with the set variety between Dragonium Z, Calm Mind, 4 Attacks booster energy and Weather Ball in either Rain or Sun as well as it's signature move Thunderclap leads you to constantly have to play risky guessing games or be forced to play perfectly or risk losing key defensive pokemon that often lead to your defensive structure being destroyed. However, as it would not be a good pitch without sharing both sides of the argument, Raging Bolt cannot run all of it's options at the same time, meaning that Weather Ball Fire is walled by Ting Lu, Weather Ball Water is walled by Ferrothorn, Calm Mind is walled by Clodsire, and Dragonium Z leads you to be unable to tera, therefore losing a lot of your defensive potential.
While I don't mean to say that Raging Bolt should be banned, I simply think that it should potentially be kept an eye on or suspected as it feels quite restrictive to current teambuilding. I personally love using the mon, it just does feel somewhat wrong to be getting such easy wins with it. I'm not going to get replays right now but if I need them to further my point then I will gladly get them.
Edit: As I have already heard people raising their pitchforks at me, I only talk about weather so much in this because that is my concern when it comes to bolt. I have used it a lot on rain and I have seen a lot of success - significantly more so than outside of it. I'm not trying to force my opinion or anything like that, I just saw metagame discussion with people talking about bolt and figured I would share my opinion on it. This wasn't neccesarily a full on metagame analysis on bolt, just my opinions of it in weather specifically as that is where I think it shines. I don't seriously expect people to actually see this and suspect it, I just wanted to spark some debate as I know this is a controversial topic.
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Weather Ball (100 BP Water) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu in Rain: 306-360 (59.5 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Thunder vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 181-214 (45.9 - 54.3%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Thunder vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 169-201 (24 - 28.5%) -- 97.5% chance to 4HKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Thunder vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 156-184 (23.9 - 28.2%) -- 94.3% chance to 4HKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Weather Ball (100 BP Water) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gliscor in Rain: 422-498 (119.2 - 140.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn in Sun: 632-748 (179.5 - 212.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Weather Ball (100 BP Water) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire in Rain: 350-414 (75.5 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Weather Ball (100 BP Water) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Iron Treads in Rain: 434-512 (113 - 133.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Weather Ball (100 BP Water) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran in Rain: 336-396 (87 - 102.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Dragon Pulse vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Venusaur-Mega: 177-208 (48.7 - 57.3%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Thunder vs. 248 HP / 128 SpD Scizor-Mega: 235-277 (68.5 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 64 HP / 28 Def Raging Bolt: 372-440 (91.4 - 108.1%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 64 HP / 28 Def Tera Fairy Raging Bolt: 186-220 (45.7 - 54%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO
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These calcs depend on an entire playstyle to even function, needing both rain or sun. While rain is pretty strong right now, a lot of that has more to do with Mega Swampert and Archaludon anchoring it well as the former provides good pivoting and anti-offense in one slot while Archaludon compresses strong defensive utility while being rather aggressive. Meanwhile sun as a whole is a very fishy and inconsistent playstyle, with Torkoal being a terrible pokemon and thus necessitating ZardY to put sun up which means you're only getting a short amount of sun turns, making it difficult to position Bolt, especially as it really doesn't cover much defensively that other sun pokemon don't already cover.
Furthermore those calcs also depend on it having that Booster Energy boost and without it, Bolt becomes significantly easier to stave off. Bolt needs careful positioning to even get to a point where it can fire those attacks off which isn't the easiest thing to do sometimes. Its middling speed also makes it overreliant on Thunderclap to circumvent match ups against offense and unless calm mind boosted, it isn't threatening to beat opposing healthy offensive threats. Also Mega Tyranitar stuffs any kind of weather related Raging Bolt strategies, AV Iron Crown can help pivot around its moves and disrupt it (particularly if Tera Fairy Bolt is used), and Galarian Slowking can help out as well.
It only needs to come in once and it can deal enough damage to break defensive cores and allow other rain sweepers such as Barraskewda to absolutely destroy. The reason I think it's strong is because a lot of the time people's answers for rain are things like a tera water Landorus-T or a Toxapex which both lose to Bolt. Sure, in some matchups it can be forced to switch out, however it's uncommon that this happens before it has already done substantial damage to the opposing team, and it's not like it becomes dead weight after it loses the booster energy anyway, it's still a 410 special attack mon throwing off 110 base power stab thunders, all the lack of booster energy means is that it no longer has the ability to literally power through things it should not be able to anyway such as glowking - it still beats all the pokemon that it usually would which is essentially anything that doesnt resist electric, water or dragon.
About Mega Tyranitar, obviously yes, that is a check to it and obviously provides a large amount of struggle for rain teams in general, it can still be played around with the correct positioning and is prone to being chipped down over the course of a game provided that Thunder is hitting. As for Iron Crown, with booster energy it's 2hko'd by thunder and without it it still does enough damage to prevent it from coming in more than once.
Your point about it not having enough offensive pressure to OHKO offensive counterplay is completely valid, as seen by the Tapu Lele calc, however this is why I typically pair it with Booster Energy Iron Crown to take advantage of that weakness. About your point with being overreliant on Thunderclap, I really don't think it is. It's whole thing is to come in from a pivot opportunity from U-Turn Pelipper or Flip Turn Barraskewda and force them into a position where they need to switch into it - almost always guaranteeing at least one mon dying and in that situation it doesn't need Thunderclap as a lot of the time an offensive ground will be sent out to revenge it anyway, although those are generally prevented by a tera. I think the case of Lele is genuinely the only situation where a potential revenge attempt isn't prevented by a Tera Fairy as it can't OHKO it with Thunder and unless it gets the para it can't outspeed or kill it with Thunderclap.
252+ SpA Raging Bolt Thunder vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 118-139 (31.5 - 37.1%) -- 81.3% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Thunder vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Iron Crown: 168-198 (51 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Raging Bolt Thunder vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Iron Crown: 129-153 (39.2 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Thunder vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Lele: 237-279 (84.3 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Ok so with the dog banned, i think its not gonna be much easier for certain mons to shine and reach their full potential.
With the dog taking both of these weav's stabs like its nothing, it was bound for my boy to fall.Now its time to rise.Band deals some insane damage, but i could also see sd boots sets return.
A lot of people have been slepping on this mon, and now i think folks will finally discover how good rai truly is.Specs with tera dark absolutely shreds through everything, even a lot of ressists, so its about to really be Dark Type Season rn!
A very good, stable meta pick even when zama was around, no doubt ttar is gonna be way stronger now.I could prolly see this thing rise to OU soon.
What other mons do yall think could rise or just become better, now that Zamazenta is banned?
With the dog taking both of these weav's stabs like its nothing, it was bound for my boy to fall.Now its time to rise.Band deals some insane damage, but i could also see sd boots sets return.
A lot of people have been slepping on this mon, and now i think folks will finally discover how good rai truly is.Specs with tera dark absolutely shreds through everything, even a lot of ressists, so its about to really be Dark Type Season rn!
A very good, stable meta pick even when zama was around, no doubt ttar is gonna be way stronger now.I could prolly see this thing rise to OU soon.
What other mons do yall think could rise or just become better, now that Zamazenta is banned?
Ayooo the dog is gone *insert crab rave gif here*
Anyways the tier is develop quite a bit with this change and I'm looking forward to it a lot. No more shoving Glowking/Pex/Unaware mons or a combo of checks to Zama on teams anymore just to feel totally safe. A fair amount of mons get better post Zama ban and I'm interested to see what less common picks get better as well.
Dahness covered this already but I'll just say Dark types get significantly better post Zama ban. Having one less prevalent offensive check makes spamming dark stab a lot easier and more efficient in making progress. Darkrai in particular, which was already surging in viability during Zama's ban, becomes even more powerful with arguably its best offensive check removed. More free to run specs now than ever, but I think boots 4A sets are good as well and even something like utility focused sets have a place (toyed with knock+wisp+2A sets in the past, wasn't half bad). Mega Tyranitar also becomes a really nice option now as it has more freedom to click knock off and make consistent progress.
*side eyes that last one suspiciously in a comical fashion*
Physical attackers get a lot better as well. Many of these would just lose to Zama outright and thus forced teams running them to have key pokemon in the back so it wasn't just subbing and boosting to a sweep freely. With it gone, MLop is a bit better speed control (especially now that it's the fastest unboosted mon in the tier). MZor is more reliable defensively now that it isn't giving free turns to broken dog, and the last three now don't have to worry about potentially losing endgame to it. I don't think Great Tusk gets THAT much better but it at least has some improved viability. Maybe. Could be (and probably am) wrong.
These two I think stay roughly the same in viability since they were already strong mons in the tier, but they appreciate no longer having to worry about letting Zamazenta come in and forcing awkward plays on their trainer's part to avoid giving the dog too much momentum (tera ghosting for Ferro's case specifically).
There are some mons I think deserve fresh exploration post Zamazenta ban as well, and just an example of one here:
I think now that a premium switch into its attacks was banned, Iron Hands deserves a little more exploration in the builder. Specifically, I think options like AV have a little more room to be useful now that a major dark resist left the tier. My theory with this one is that combing AV and its natural physical bulk, it can be used as a buffer into the strong darktypes of the tier (being especially useful into Darkrai but also Mega Tyranitar lacking Earthquake). The special bulk from AV also would let it help play around stuff like ZardY in a pinch and it's strong into boots Koko that run HP Ice over Gleam (and can stomach a couple Gleams in a pinch too). Not an amazing mon, but I think it could have some improved use in the tier now that a check was removed. I also think substitute+3A is cool for abusing Ferro and luring in grounds to hit with ice punch.
Anyways the tier is develop quite a bit with this change and I'm looking forward to it a lot. No more shoving Glowking/Pex/Unaware mons or a combo of checks to Zama on teams anymore just to feel totally safe. A fair amount of mons get better post Zama ban and I'm interested to see what less common picks get better as well.
Dahness covered this already but I'll just say Dark types get significantly better post Zama ban. Having one less prevalent offensive check makes spamming dark stab a lot easier and more efficient in making progress. Darkrai in particular, which was already surging in viability during Zama's ban, becomes even more powerful with arguably its best offensive check removed. More free to run specs now than ever, but I think boots 4A sets are good as well and even something like utility focused sets have a place (toyed with knock+wisp+2A sets in the past, wasn't half bad). Mega Tyranitar also becomes a really nice option now as it has more freedom to click knock off and make consistent progress.
*side eyes that last one suspiciously in a comical fashion*
Physical attackers get a lot better as well. Many of these would just lose to Zama outright and thus forced teams running them to have key pokemon in the back so it wasn't just subbing and boosting to a sweep freely. With it gone, MLop is a bit better speed control (especially now that it's the fastest unboosted mon in the tier). MZor is more reliable defensively now that it isn't giving free turns to broken dog, and the last three now don't have to worry about potentially losing endgame to it. I don't think Great Tusk gets THAT much better but it at least has some improved viability. Maybe. Could be (and probably am) wrong.
These two I think stay roughly the same in viability since they were already strong mons in the tier, but they appreciate no longer having to worry about letting Zamazenta come in and forcing awkward plays on their trainer's part to avoid giving the dog too much momentum (tera ghosting for Ferro's case specifically).
There are some mons I think deserve fresh exploration post Zamazenta ban as well, and just an example of one here:
I think now that a premium switch into its attacks was banned, Iron Hands deserves a little more exploration in the builder. Specifically, I think options like AV have a little more room to be useful now that a major dark resist left the tier. My theory with this one is that combing AV and its natural physical bulk, it can be used as a buffer into the strong darktypes of the tier (being especially useful into Darkrai but also Mega Tyranitar lacking Earthquake). The special bulk from AV also would let it help play around stuff like ZardY in a pinch and it's strong into boots Koko that run HP Ice over Gleam (and can stomach a couple Gleams in a pinch too). Not an amazing mon, but I think it could have some improved use in the tier now that a check was removed. I also think substitute+3A is cool for abusing Ferro and luring in grounds to hit with ice punch.
With Zamazenta banned I foresee that Ferrothorn will do better. It loses a major threat and is a lot less scared of being Body Pressed. Seeing that Ferrothorn provides stability I think that this might be a good thing overall. Landorus T definitely improves, not that it was a flawless answer to Zamazenta in the first place. But this is an interesting development.
Update:
As for Raging Bolt, this thing is very awesome and it is good to see but one thing we need to remember is that as much as it can apply pressure it also provides measures of stability. Rain teams hate battling Raging Bolt as much as they love abusing it as it allows you to have a good answer to most of their weapons. You also have a fantastic match up against Zapdos, Moltres, Charizard, Waterpon, Urshifu, Alomomola and more. I don't know if removing such a good offensive/defensive glue would help this metagame that much. As strong as any electric type is, ground types can at least dissuade them from spamming electric attacks with reckless abandon (think of Zapdos in Generation II, where it is not countered by the grounds so much as forced to use hidden power.) Raging Bolt offers a similar dynamic and it requires your opponent to make calculated plays.
Should we suspect it? I could see the benefit in doing so, but I presume that the result would be us deciding not to ban it. And I would also argue that we might be using time poorly when there might be other things we should look at first. As for what they could be? That depends, but the idea occurred to me.
Ferrothorn will do better. It loses a major threat and is a lot less scared of being Body Pressed. Seeing that Ferrothorn provides stability I think that this might be a good thing overall. Landorus T definitely improves, not that it was a flawless answer to Zamazenta in the first place. But this is an interesting development.Update:
As for Raging Bolt, this thing is very awesome and it is good to see but one thing we need to remember is that as much as it can apply pressure it also provides measures of stability. Rain teams hate battling Raging Bolt as much as they love abusing it as it allows you to have a good answer to most of their weapons. You also have a fantastic match up against Zapdos, Moltres, Charizard, Waterpon, Urshifu, Alomomola and more. I don't know if removing such a good offensive/defensive glue would help this metagame that much. As strong as any electric type is, ground types can at least dissuade them from spamming electric attacks with reckless abandon (think of Zapdos in Generation II, where it is not countered by the grounds so much as forced to use hidden power.) Raging Bolt offers a similar dynamic and it requires your opponent to make calculated plays.
Should we suspect it? I could see the benefit in doing so, but I presume that the result would be us deciding not to ban it. And I would also argue that we might be using time poorly when there might be other things we should look at first. As for what they could be? That depends, but the idea occurred to me.
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Nooooo why did they ban my dog Zamazenta?!!! There goes an integreal part of my best team! 
But in all seriousness yeah I see why it was banned. It just outright swept teams if they played wrong. Even Lando-T was set-up fodder for zam.
But in all seriousness yeah I see why it was banned. It just outright swept teams if they played wrong. Even Lando-T was set-up fodder for zam.
Question: I hear people say that Zamazenta-Hero got banned two days ago via suspect test, but it seems that the ladder has not been updated with that yet.
Did it get banned, or is Showdown slow with the events?
Did it get banned, or is Showdown slow with the events?
showdown sometimes takes a bit to implement things, but it'll be implemented soon, dw
The ban will be implemented once the server updates as Shifts are right around the corner (tomorrow)
For anyone still reading this, yes it got updated and it's now fully gone so have a nice (and hellish) laddering session and a good day
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No one will believe me but I invented a shuckle set that 6-0's stall. Even pyukumuku stall is not safe.
You saw it here first folks! I call it..... THE SHUCKLE BREAKER!!!!!!!
Shuckle @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Sturdy
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Infestation
- Encore
- Curse
- Rest
Instructions:
1). Only use its tera against hard stall. Against regular teams it can help teammates switch-in or set up by tanking hits and using encore.
2). If against hard stall, you must scout for knock off. Shuckle will still be able to break stall but it's job will be harder if it loses boots.
3). Trap anything, tera ghost and curse (Stall can't kill you, you're a shuckle so dw)
4). Before you rest up, encore them and make them regret their life.
5). If they tera ghost and escape or if they have a ghost type don't panic. All shuckle has to do is hit 1 infestation on something that cant escape and its dead.
6). If they want to waste all of their 8pp of recovery to try and survive... LET THEM! In fact HELP THEM. Encore them, show them that you care. You can help deplete their much needed pp together as a team.
Here is an example of a match in action, it beat a stall team with a 14-0 win streak on ladder
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldex-2135544801
DON'T FUCKLE WITH SHUCKLE
You saw it here first folks! I call it..... THE SHUCKLE BREAKER!!!!!!!
Shuckle @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Sturdy
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Infestation
- Encore
- Curse
- Rest
Instructions:
1). Only use its tera against hard stall. Against regular teams it can help teammates switch-in or set up by tanking hits and using encore.
2). If against hard stall, you must scout for knock off. Shuckle will still be able to break stall but it's job will be harder if it loses boots.
3). Trap anything, tera ghost and curse (Stall can't kill you, you're a shuckle so dw)
4). Before you rest up, encore them and make them regret their life.
5). If they tera ghost and escape or if they have a ghost type don't panic. All shuckle has to do is hit 1 infestation on something that cant escape and its dead.
6). If they want to waste all of their 8pp of recovery to try and survive... LET THEM! In fact HELP THEM. Encore them, show them that you care. You can help deplete their much needed pp together as a team.
Here is an example of a match in action, it beat a stall team with a 14-0 win streak on ladder
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldex-2135544801
DON'T FUCKLE WITH SHUCKLE
Its because curse is not meant to boost shuckles defences. When a ghost pokemon does curse, curse has a different effect. This effect goes through protect, sub, and even magic bounce.
I mean, go ahead if u wanna waste your tera and if they sub, infestation will hit like a wet noodle + they can switch out into another mon.
Stall doesnt run sub. Even if it did, shuckle can lock them into it with encore and it can hit them through it with ghost curse and force them out, or I can just use another pokemon to set up hazards or something while they are locked into sub.
or you could just run Tera Normal SD Luna and be done with it
Good thing that Zama is banned, it was an annoying snowball mon! Anyway, i have seen fair amount dicussion of Tyranitar-Mega rising, but to be honest, if Tyranitar-Mega rises, sand gets revived.(Hi, Excadrill) If Tyranitar-Mega rises so will it's non mega form wich is argubably better due to how well it specializes in things without wasting a mega slot and very small item downsides in it's own right. Unless you just want huge stats.
not really? Mega Tyranitar’s viability and rise largely off its own strength and not much about sand which is a playstyle that has annoying issues holding it back. Base also is not rising, as mega and base forms are tiered separately, and base ttar just is a very poor Pokémon. Being able to hold items doesn’t change that.
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If mega rises the base also has to rise to (OU By technicality) since to use mega tyranitar you must use the base, they are tiered the same. The only exception to this is if a mon is banned to a BL rank by banning its mega stone.
This is not true, megas are allowed to rise above their base forms, but can never be below. See: Mega Garchomp is OU by technicality, normal Lopunny is untiered.
That is not my point, if you want to hit harder, choice band ttar has a larger attack stat, if you want a special wall, its assault vest ttar, not saying mega ttar is unviable, it is just less speicalized
and if u want to do all of that at the same time, u use mtar, and that is exactly why its leagues better than base
mega offers u all that with no drawbacks like running band and being locked into a single attack or running av and not being able to set rocks/use t-wave or whatever.Not all of the megas have to be flashy, with new typing, new moves and new crazy abilities to be good.
Imo, these are some really solid buffs for a mon like ttar