Ubers National Dex Ubers Metagame Discussion

[Cancel cult]

This is a tier list of all pokemon ranked d tier, or are unranked but have a niche. (I posted this to the viability rankings thread, but deleted it seconds later because I felt it wasn't useful enough to be posted in such an important, no nonsense thread. I posted it here instead. Was this the right call?)
D+
1 Slurpuff
Slurpuff is a great web setter thanks to unburden that has a lot of extra utility. It could run sash as a lead, or endure and red card. It has a variety of utility options, including endure, wish, toxic, yawn, light screen, and magic coat.
2 He who shall not be named
3 Klefki
Klefki has numerous utility options, such as foul play, defog, screens, spikes, switcheroo, t wave, magic coat, toxic, and trick room. It can function great as a lead or utility mon.
4 Chien-Pao
5 Darkrai
6 Regieleki
7 Metagross-Mega
8 Blastoise-Mega
9 Basculegion
D
1 Glimmora
2 Landorus-Therian
Landorus T is a defoger and rocker that threatens pdon a bit.
3 Lugia
4 Blaziken-Mega
5 Tapu-Lele
6 Palkia
7 Kyogre
8 Zacian
9 Mewtwo
10 Landorus
Landorus threatens pdon.
11 Kangaskhan-Mega
12 Orthworm
D-
1 Paladin
2 Arceus-Fighting
3 Cyclizar
4 Kingambit
5 Zamazenta-Crowned
6 Arceus-Electric
7 Arceus-Fire
8 Arceus-Rock
9 Arceus-Ice
10 Arceus-Psychic
11 Arceus-Bug
12 Tapu-Fini
13 Walking Wake
14 Darmanitan-Galar
E+
1 Spectrier
2 Naganadel
3 Genesect
4 Dragapult
Dragapult outspeeds the 405 speed club and has threatening stab.
5 Absol-Mega
Niche alternative to Mega Diancie.
6 Solgaleo
Has the incredibly funny option of z-splash to become a threatening wallbreaker.
7 Iron Bundle
Dragapult, but you are worse against Flutter Mane, and you miss half the time. On the plus side, you got ice stab.
8 Hydreigon
A special attacker that walls pdon enough to kill it first. Niche alternative to Giratina Origin.
9 Slowbro-Mega
10 Dracovish
11 Avalugg-Hisui
Hear me out.
Avalugg-Hisui @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Sturdy
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Avalanche
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Crunch
With the combination of sturdy, boots, and rapid spin, Avalugg is practically guaranteed to rid your side of hazards, unless your opponent has a ghost. This is not its only purpose, however. It has enough bulk to survive a scale shot from Koraidon, and can ohko it with avalanche.
12 Clefable
Avalugg, but it trades spin for being able to more reliably counter Koraidon and being a better wall.
E
1 Mimikyu
Mimikyu gets one free turn thanks to its ability. It can use that turn to screw over Koraidon in a number of ways. Thunder wave and play rough work fine, but if Koraidon is at low enough health, it can use z-splash and shadow sneak to not only kill Koraidon, but do a decent amount of damage to the next pokemon.
2 Forretress
Remember what I said about Avalugg? Well replace killing Koraidon with being able to set down more hazards, and you have Forretress.
3 Gholdengo
4 Tornadus
Prankster shenanigans, has tailwind.
5 Shaymin-Sky
6 Kyurem-White
7 Comfey
General utility, and has a priority fairy attack to kill Koraidon.
8 Donphan
Another sure spinner, but it has ground stab, ice shard, and a good attack stat.
9 Pawmot
10 Rabsca
11 Groudon
Groudon isn't a bad mon, but using it means you cant use pdon. It's hard to justify trading an item slot for the best pokemon in the tier. Not impossible, mind you, but very, very hard.
E-
1 Garganacl
2 :ninetails-alola: Ninetails-Alola
Aurora veil.
3 Abomasnow
Aurora veil.
4 Abomasnow-Mega
Aurora veil.
5 Cloyster
Worse Mega Blastoise, but with ice stab and physical.
6 Urshifu
F+
1 Reshiram
2 Roaring Moon
F
1 Alakazam-Mega
Outclassed by Deoxys Attack in almost every way, but it does get some new coverage, and it has a better special defense. Besides, you might get lucky and trace beads of ruin.
2 Deoxys
Again, mostly outclassed by Deoxys Attack, but it is more likely to survive a priority move.
3 :espartha: Espartha
Could potentially win a game if your opponent isn't paying attention.
4 Dugtrio
Can trap and janiter pdon.
5 Skeledirge
Beats Zacian, and has what you might be able to call a positive matchup with Koraidon if you squint.
F-
1 Wobbuffet
Could theoretically trap and ko a mon who only has attacks.
2 Avalugg
Forsakes being able to both always survive Koraidon and always kill Koraidon, and being able to set rocks, in favor of being slightly better at being a wall.
3 Celesteela
Just use Skarmory.
4 Corviknight
Just use Skarmory.
5 Aron
Yep, that's right. A fear pokemon is on this list.
6 Sawk
Did I say a fear pokemon? I meant two fear pokemon. We have truly reached the bottom of the barrel.
7 Houndstone
Which makes it all the more embarrassing for houndstone that it is below them. Houndstones niche in the meta evaporated the instant Basculegion was dropped. It has some properties that Basculegion doesn't have, but not nearly enough to justify you using it in any realistic setting.
8 Tyranitar
What's worse than an outclassed pokemon? A pokemon whose only niche is to enable that outclassed pokemon.
9 Tyranitar-Mega
10 Annihilape
At the bottom, we have Annihilape. The only reason Annihilape is in ubers is because it gets ridiculously powerful the more its hit. The problem is that in ubers, you don't usually last more than two hits. Other pokemon may be outclassed, but Annihilapes whole existence dosent matter in this format. And thats why its at the bottom.

 

[Sami]

This is a tier list of all pokemon ranked d tier, or are unranked but have a niche. (I posted this to the viability rankings thread, but deleted it seconds later because I felt it wasn't useful enough to be posted in such an important, no nonsense thread. I posted it here instead. Was this the right call?)
D+
1 Slurpuff
Slurpuff is a great web setter thanks to unburden that has a lot of extra utility. It could run sash as a lead, or endure and red card. It has a variety of utility options, including endure, wish, toxic, yawn, light screen, and magic coat.
2 He who shall not be named
3 Klefki
Klefki has numerous utility options, such as foul play, defog, screens, spikes, switcheroo, t wave, magic coat, toxic, and trick room. It can function great as a lead or utility mon.
4 Chien-Pao
5 Darkrai
6 Regieleki
7 Metagross-Mega
8 Blastoise-Mega
9 Basculegion
D
1 Glimmora
2 Landorus-Therian
Landorus T is a defoger and rocker that threatens pdon a bit.
3 Lugia
4 Blaziken-Mega
5 Tapu-Lele
6 Palkia
7 Kyogre
8 Zacian
9 Mewtwo
10 Landorus
Landorus threatens pdon.
11 Kangaskhan-Mega
12 Orthworm
D-
1 Paladin
2 Arceus-Fighting
3 Cyclizar
4 Kingambit
5 Zamazenta-Crowned
6 Arceus-Electric
7 Arceus-Fire
8 Arceus-Rock
9 Arceus-Ice
10 Arceus-Psychic
11 Arceus-Bug
12 Tapu-Fini
13 Walking Wake
14 Darmanitan-Galar
E+
1 Spectrier
2 Naganadel
3 Genesect
4 Dragapult
Dragapult outspeeds the 405 speed club and has threatening stab.
5 Absol-Mega
Niche alternative to Mega Diancie.
6 Solgaleo
Has the incredibly funny option of z-splash to become a threatening wallbreaker.
7 Iron Bundle
Dragapult, but you are worse against Flutter Mane, and you miss half the time. On the plus side, you got ice stab.
8 Hydreigon
A special attacker that walls pdon. Niche alternative to Giratina Origin.
9 Slowbro-Mega
10 Dracovish
11 Avalugg-Hisui
Hear me out.
Avalugg-Hisui @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Sturdy
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Avalanche
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Crunch
With the combination of sturdy, boots, and rapid spin, Avalugg is practically guaranteed to rid your side of hazards, unless your opponent has a ghost. This is not its only purpose, however. It has enough bulk to survive a scale shot from Koraidon, and can ohko it with avalanche.
12 Clefable
Avalugg, but it trades spin for being able to more reliably counter Koraidon and being a better wall.
E
1 Mimikyu
Mimikyu gets one free turn thanks to its ability. It can use that turn to screw over Koraidon in a number of ways. Thunder wave and play rough work fine, but if Koraidon is at low enough health, it can use z-splash and shadow sneak to not only kill Koraidon, but do a decent amount of damage to the next pokemon.
2 Forretress
Remember what I said about Avalugg? Well replace killing Koraidon with being able to set down more hazards, and you have Forretress.
3 Gholdengo
4 Tornadus
Prankster shenanigans, has tailwind.
5 Shaymin-Sky
6 Kyurem-White
7 Comfey
General utility, and has a priority fairy attack to kill Koraidon.
8 Donphan
Another sure spinner, but it has ground stab, ice shard, and a good attack stat.
9 Pawmot
10 Rabsca
11 Groudon
Groudon isn't a bad mon, but using it means you cant use pdon. It's hard to justify trading an item slot for the best pokemon in the tier. Not impossible, mind you, but very, very hard.
E-
1 Garganacl
2 :ninetails-alola: Ninetails-Alola
Aurora veil.
3 Abomasnow
Aurora veil.
4 Abomasnow-Mega
Aurora veil.
5 Cloyster
Worse Mega Blastoise, but with ice stab and physical.
6 Urshifu
F+
1 Reshiram
2 Roaring Moon
F
1 Alakazam-Mega
Outclassed by Deoxys Attack in almost every way, but it does get some new coverage, and it has a better special defense. Besides, you might get lucky and trace beads of ruin.
2 Deoxys
Again, mostly outclassed by Deoxys Attack, but it is more likely to survive a priority move.
3 :espartha: Espartha
Could potentially win a game if your opponent isn't paying attention.
4 Dugtrio
Can trap and janiter pdon.
5 Skeledirge
Beats Zacian, and has what you might be able to call a positive matchup with Koraidon if you squint.
F-
1 Wobbuffet
Could theoretically trap and ko a mon who only has attacks.
2 Avalugg
Forsakes being able to both always survive Koraidon and always kill Koraidon, and being able to set rocks, in favor of being slightly better at being a wall.
3 Celesteela
Just use Skarmory.
4 Corviknight
Just use Skarmory.
5 Aron
Yep, that's right. A fear pokemon is on this list.
6 Sawk
Did I say a fear pokemon? I meant two fear pokemon. We have truly reached the bottom of the barrel.
7 Houndstone
Which makes it all the more embarrassing for houndstone that it is below them. Houndstones niche in the meta evaporated the instant Basculegion was dropped. It has some properties that Basculegion doesn't have, but not nearly enough to justify you using it in any realistic setting.
8 Tyranitar
What's worse than an outclassed pokemon? A pokemon whose only niche is to enable that outclassed pokemon.
9 Tyranitar-Mega
10 Annihilape
At the bottom, we have Annihilape. The only reason Annihilape is in ubers is because it gets ridiculously powerful the more its hit. The problem is that in ubers, you don't usually last more than two hits. Other pokemon may be outclassed, but Annihilapes whole existence dosent matter in this format. And thats why its at the bottom.

Hydreigon does not wall Primal-Groudon

 

[bumboclaat]

This is a tier list of all pokemon ranked d tier, or are unranked but have a niche. (I posted this to the viability rankings thread, but deleted it seconds later because I felt it wasn't useful enough to be posted in such an important, no nonsense thread. I posted it here instead. Was this the right call?)
D+
1 Slurpuff
Slurpuff is a great web setter thanks to unburden that has a lot of extra utility. It could run sash as a lead, or endure and red card. It has a variety of utility options, including endure, wish, toxic, yawn, light screen, and magic coat.
2 He who shall not be named
3 Klefki
Klefki has numerous utility options, such as foul play, defog, screens, spikes, switcheroo, t wave, magic coat, toxic, and trick room. It can function great as a lead or utility mon.
4 Chien-Pao
5 Darkrai
6 Regieleki
7 Metagross-Mega
8 Blastoise-Mega
9 Basculegion
D
1 Glimmora
2 Landorus-Therian
Landorus T is a defoger and rocker that threatens pdon a bit.
3 Lugia
4 Blaziken-Mega
5 Tapu-Lele
6 Palkia
7 Kyogre
8 Zacian
9 Mewtwo
10 Landorus
Landorus threatens pdon.
11 Kangaskhan-Mega
12 Orthworm
D-
1 Paladin
2 Arceus-Fighting
3 Cyclizar
4 Kingambit
5 Zamazenta-Crowned
6 Arceus-Electric
7 Arceus-Fire
8 Arceus-Rock
9 Arceus-Ice
10 Arceus-Psychic
11 Arceus-Bug
12 Tapu-Fini
13 Walking Wake
14 Darmanitan-Galar
E+
1 Spectrier
2 Naganadel
3 Genesect
4 Dragapult
Dragapult outspeeds the 405 speed club and has threatening stab.
5 Absol-Mega
Niche alternative to Mega Diancie.
6 Solgaleo
Has the incredibly funny option of z-splash to become a threatening wallbreaker.
7 Iron Bundle
Dragapult, but you are worse against Flutter Mane, and you miss half the time. On the plus side, you got ice stab.
8 Hydreigon
A special attacker that walls pdon. Niche alternative to Giratina Origin.
9 Slowbro-Mega
10 Dracovish
11 Avalugg-Hisui
Hear me out.
Avalugg-Hisui @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Sturdy
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Avalanche
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Crunch
With the combination of sturdy, boots, and rapid spin, Avalugg is practically guaranteed to rid your side of hazards, unless your opponent has a ghost. This is not its only purpose, however. It has enough bulk to survive a scale shot from Koraidon, and can ohko it with avalanche.
12 Clefable
Avalugg, but it trades spin for being able to more reliably counter Koraidon and being a better wall.
E
1 Mimikyu
Mimikyu gets one free turn thanks to its ability. It can use that turn to screw over Koraidon in a number of ways. Thunder wave and play rough work fine, but if Koraidon is at low enough health, it can use z-splash and shadow sneak to not only kill Koraidon, but do a decent amount of damage to the next pokemon.
2 Forretress
Remember what I said about Avalugg? Well replace killing Koraidon with being able to set down more hazards, and you have Forretress.
3 Gholdengo
4 Tornadus
Prankster shenanigans, has tailwind.
5 Shaymin-Sky
6 Kyurem-White
7 Comfey
General utility, and has a priority fairy attack to kill Koraidon.
8 Donphan
Another sure spinner, but it has ground stab, ice shard, and a good attack stat.
9 Pawmot
10 Rabsca
11 Groudon
Groudon isn't a bad mon, but using it means you cant use pdon. It's hard to justify trading an item slot for the best pokemon in the tier. Not impossible, mind you, but very, very hard.
E-
1 Garganacl
2 :ninetails-alola: Ninetails-Alola
Aurora veil.
3 Abomasnow
Aurora veil.
4 Abomasnow-Mega
Aurora veil.
5 Cloyster
Worse Mega Blastoise, but with ice stab and physical.
6 Urshifu
F+
1 Reshiram
2 Roaring Moon
F
1 Alakazam-Mega
Outclassed by Deoxys Attack in almost every way, but it does get some new coverage, and it has a better special defense. Besides, you might get lucky and trace beads of ruin.
2 Deoxys
Again, mostly outclassed by Deoxys Attack, but it is more likely to survive a priority move.
3 :espartha: Espartha
Could potentially win a game if your opponent isn't paying attention.
4 Dugtrio
Can trap and janiter pdon.
5 Skeledirge
Beats Zacian, and has what you might be able to call a positive matchup with Koraidon if you squint.
F-
1 Wobbuffet
Could theoretically trap and ko a mon who only has attacks.
2 Avalugg
Forsakes being able to both always survive Koraidon and always kill Koraidon, and being able to set rocks, in favor of being slightly better at being a wall.
3 Celesteela
Just use Skarmory.
4 Corviknight
Just use Skarmory.
5 Aron
Yep, that's right. A fear pokemon is on this list.
6 Sawk
Did I say a fear pokemon? I meant two fear pokemon. We have truly reached the bottom of the barrel.
7 Houndstone
Which makes it all the more embarrassing for houndstone that it is below them. Houndstones niche in the meta evaporated the instant Basculegion was dropped. It has some properties that Basculegion doesn't have, but not nearly enough to justify you using it in any realistic setting.
8 Tyranitar
What's worse than an outclassed pokemon? A pokemon whose only niche is to enable that outclassed pokemon.
9 Tyranitar-Mega
10 Annihilape
At the bottom, we have Annihilape. The only reason Annihilape is in ubers is because it gets ridiculously powerful the more its hit. The problem is that in ubers, you don't usually last more than two hits. Other pokemon may be outclassed, but Annihilapes whole existence dosent matter in this format. And thats why its at the bottom.

It would have been deleted because you've missed the entire point of what D tier is.

D Rank [ordered alphabetically]
Reminder: these Pokemon are unviable, but Ubers by tiering.

It is an acknowledgement that yes these mons are part of the tier, but they are only on the list to acknowledge that fact. If they had any viability they would be at least C-. If you feel a mon has some sort of niche feel free to nominate it and provide high level replays to prove your argument. This applies to any VR nom for an unranked mon. There are probably one or two mons on your list you could make an argument for somewhere in the C tier. For example, I believe could probably fit in somewhere in C/C- due to its ability to annoy fatter teams. I'm not going to make that nom because I don't care enough to spend time both building and playing a team to provide replays to show that my opinion has merit rather than just being theorymon. If you have a non mon you think should be ranked make a team, gather some replays proving it, and it will probably be voted on whenever the next slate is. I know for a fact that you know that not even a couple of the mons you've listed have any shred of viability outside of a couple. Posts like these just derail and clog up the thread. It clear that you've put some time and energy into this, but this ain't it.

 

[latios777]

I think Geomancy is a problem with tera allowed. More dangerous with Tera blast Xerneas allowed in the near future.


+2 252+ SpA Tera Ground Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon-Primal: 336-396 (83.1 - 98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Tera Ground Xerneas Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon-Primal: 446-528 (110.3 - 130.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Tera Ground Xerneas Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 405-477 (101.7 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Tera Ground Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 303-357 (76.1 - 89.6%)

Against defensive necrozma don't matter, is 2HKO with the two moves. Against Ho-oh you need tera electric to one shot, but then you can have trouble with Groudon at least. Tera electric is good vs Necrozma-DM too.
You still need previous damage or phaze with the 3 mons (can't work always) because Xerneas survive at least one hit against Groudon, Ho-oh and Necro (with tera in this case depend of the evs).

Xerneas is perfectly fine but Geomancy is a broken move. Of course, has counterplay but you need more Xerneas checks (fortunately most of them are still great mons in the tier) because can break with the apropiate Tera type. Because tera electric and fighting are viable, not only ground.
If koraidon is baned, you can forget completely the Timid nature in your geomancy set and use Modest with more bulk because you don't need to outpace jolly scarf Koraidon.

To be honest, in my opinion this move should be baned even on older gens, well....at least in XY and ORAS when you can't use Necrozma-DM.

 

[MoldyGG]

Hello everyone Created such a team, played something similar in the 7th gen. Can you tell me how to improve my team? (in the previous version of the team, Groudon used choice band). I understand that the problem is a large number of choice items, but so far there are no ideas how to replace them. my team (pokepast.es)

 

[Bobsican]

I think Geomancy is a problem with tera allowed. More dangerous with Tera blast Xerneas allowed in the near future.


+2 252+ SpA Tera Ground Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon-Primal: 336-396 (83.1 - 98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Tera Ground Xerneas Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon-Primal: 446-528 (110.3 - 130.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Tera Ground Xerneas Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 405-477 (101.7 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Tera Ground Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 303-357 (76.1 - 89.6%)

Against defensive necrozma don't matter, is 2HKO with the two moves. Against Ho-oh you need tera electric to one shot, but then you can have trouble with Groudon at least. Tera electric is good vs Necrozma-DM too.
You still need previous damage or phaze with the 3 mons (can't work always) because Xerneas survive at least one hit against Groudon, Ho-oh and Necro (with tera in this case depend of the evs).

Xerneas is perfectly fine but Geomancy is a broken move. Of course, has counterplay but you need more Xerneas checks (fortunately most of them are still great mons in the tier) because can break with the apropiate Tera type. Because tera electric and fighting are viable, not only ground.
If koraidon is baned, you can forget completely the Timid nature in your geomancy set and use Modest with more bulk because you don't need to outpace jolly scarf Koraidon.

To be honest, in my opinion this move should be baned even on older gens, well....at least in XY and ORAS when you can't use Necrozma-DM.

...Xerneas does not get Tera Blast to begin with, it's dexit'd.

However, I can agree on Xerneas being rather problematic, it's basically RBY Mewtwo on crack and is mainly held back by Primal Groudon being everywhere, its main forms of coverage (Thunder and Focus Blast) being inconsistent at times, and its speed tier being quite meh without setup.

While it does require momentum and team support to cover its main forms of counterplay, it's still a very potent win condition that can flip the match-up in a unhealthy way, teams that don't want to run PDon are obligated to run multiple checks to it, and naturally PDon itself can be overwhelmed.

Do note that if Xerneas is undexit'd and presumably gets Tera Blast it's very easy to argue for some tiering action.

 

[Cancel cult]

...Xerneas does not get Tera Blast to begin with, it's dexit'd.

However, I can agree on Xerneas being rather problematic, it's basically RBY Mewtwo on crack and is mainly held back by Primal Groudon being everywhere, its main forms of coverage (Thunder and Focus Blast) being inconsistent at times, and its speed tier being quite meh without setup.

While it does require momentum and team support to cover its main forms of counterplay, it's still a very potent win condition that can flip the match-up in a unhealthy way, teams that don't want to run PDon are obligated to run multiple checks to it, and naturally PDon itself can be overwhelmed.

Do note that if Xerneas is undexit'd and presumably gets Tera Blast it's very easy to argue for some tiering action.

I am definitely going to regret saying this, but you can use grass knot to beat pdon with rocks

 

[Sami]

Hello everyone Created such a team, played something similar in the 7th gen. Can you tell me how to improve my team? (in the previous version of the team, Groudon used choice band). I understand that the problem is a large number of choice items, but so far there are no ideas how to replace them. my team (pokepast.es)

is pretty bad. It's outclassed by most other steel types in the tier, both offensively and defensively. simply outperforms it defensively (reliable healing in morning sun and prism armor) and offensively (gets dragon dance, higher attack stat, prism armor lets it use weakness policy and it can ultra burst into ). The set you've given gets completely walled by without rock slide, and power-up-punch isn't a good move to use even with the attack boosts. It also restricts you from using an actually good mega on your team, like or .

is a bad idea. Just like it's just outclassed by another pokemon in every way, in this case being . Desolate Land and the added stats make significantly better than its base form. Even if you were to attach onto , the moveset you've given isn't good. Fire Punch is worse than something like Heat Crash (or Overheat considering how has 150 spatk), Iron Head doesn't hit anything struggles with, and Brick Break is just useless. I would also suggest Precipice Blades over Earthquake, but it's not a HORRIBLE choice like the others, especially if you think it misses a lot.

is an interesting choice considering how you have but it's still not that good. Offensive Yveltal typically runs , whilst being a special attacker, with moves like Dark Pulse and Oblivion Wing doing big damage to pokemon like , and . If you want to run Knock Off on then using a defensive set alongside Foul Play could be used, as well as Defog. Why are you using Defog anyways?

Remember what I said about ? Well these added bonuses, alongside its good movepool (offensively and defensively) make it the best pokemon in the tier, and therefore the most common pokemon in the format. SO, will just get shut down by this thing, especially if it's using a water type move. This free switch-in for just isn't worth it, as it can easily begin to set up with Swords Dance and Rock Polish, or begin setting hazards up like Spikes or Stealth Rock. , like , is also outclassed by their primal forms, being , as it's a water type that can actually manage , unlike something like .

I won't talk about because it's the only good set here (no offense).

Lastly, is not good here. This isn't Gen 8 Ubers, as pokemon like , and completely walk all over it. isn't that good on this team because your only hazard remover is , who gets hurt by hazards itself. Along with this, still outclasses it here as it's stronger and faster, and even isn't good, as and outclass it as ice types (unfortunately). The moves you've given also let switch in on it for free and setup with Swords Dance, and with very recently being banned, is basically a loss.

OVERALL, a lot of the pokemon on this team are outclassed by alternatives, and the sets they each run stumble into their own problems, whether that be letting certain pokemon in for free, or being counterintuitive in someway.

 

[Cancel cult]

Hello everyone Created such a team, played something similar in the 7th gen. Can you tell me how to improve my team? (in the previous version of the team, Groudon used choice band). I understand that the problem is a large number of choice items, but so far there are no ideas how to replace them. my team (pokepast.es)

https://pokepast.es/4bd4b3bcd9f8096e
this is a team i through together in 5 minutes that has mon more equiped to deal with this format. keep in mind that every team i have ever used in this format has a pokemon that isnt on the viability rankings though, so take this with a grain of salt.

 

[BrakeSeer]

What does Lunala even do here?

scale shot is blocked by tera fairy allowing it to use shadow shiel to check koraidon. tho that role is now not useful

 

[BrakeSeer]

What is the optimal ratio of HP to Def to survive attacks? for example;

252 Atk Life Orb Technician Marshadow Shadow Sneak vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 315-374 (84 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
vs
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Marshadow Shadow Sneak vs. 228 HP / 4 Def Dragapult: 315-374 (84.2 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
the number of invested EVs is the same, but one tanks is better than the other. the ratio of Total HP vs Def for the first calc is 2.01612903226, compared to the second calc having a flat 2. but at what point does that HP to Def ratio become the most efficient. since for another example,;
116 Atk Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Smeargle: 194-230 (76.9 - 91.2%) -- approx. 2HKO
vs
116 Atk Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Smeargle: 306-362 (97.4 - 115.2%) -- approx. 87.5% chance to OHKO
this time the build with more defensive investment to HP investment lived the hit better, with a ratio of 1.49112426036 compared to the less bulky ratio of 2.93457943925 hp per def stat. with the former example the larger number lives it better, and the latter the smaller number lives it better. How do we find the goldylocks zone to be the most bulky compared to a different ratio, with both having the same # of stats ex. 200/200 bulk to 250/150 bulk (final values, not base stats, so natures will not be relevant exept for reaching theose numbers,)

Edit:
did some more math, and now im even more confused
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Marshadow Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 232 Def Dragapult: 242-289 (76.3 - 91.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
this lives it better than either of the previous pult calcs with an hp to def ratio of 1.29918032787, not following the previous inferred amount from the previous pult clalcs showing that the more hp it had compared to def, the better it lived. this is so wierd man

 

[BrakeSeer]

What is the optimal ratio of HP to Def to survive attacks? for example;

252 Atk Life Orb Technician Marshadow Shadow Sneak vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 315-374 (84 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
vs
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Marshadow Shadow Sneak vs. 228 HP / 4 Def Dragapult: 315-374 (84.2 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
the number of invested EVs is the same, but one tanks is better than the other. the ratio of Total HP vs Def for the first calc is 2.01612903226, compared to the second calc having a flat 2. but at what point does that HP to Def ratio become the most efficient. since for another example,;
116 Atk Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Smeargle: 194-230 (76.9 - 91.2%) -- approx. 2HKO
vs
116 Atk Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Smeargle: 306-362 (97.4 - 115.2%) -- approx. 87.5% chance to OHKO
this time the build with more defensive investment to HP investment lived the hit better, with a ratio of 1.49112426036 compared to the less bulky ratio of 2.93457943925 hp per def stat. with the former example the larger number lives it better, and the latter the smaller number lives it better. How do we find the goldylocks zone to be the most bulky compared to a different ratio, with both having the same # of stats ex. 200/200 bulk to 250/150 bulk (final values, not base stats, so natures will not be relevant exept for reaching theose numbers,)

Edit:
did some more math, and now im even more confused
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Marshadow Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 232 Def Dragapult: 242-289 (76.3 - 91.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
this lives it better than either of the previous pult calcs with an hp to def ratio of 1.29918032787, not following the previous inferred amount from the previous pult clalcs showing that the more hp it had compared to def, the better it lived. this is so wierd man

Tis been solved, you want the final values to be as close to a 1/1 ratio as possible, in the sense that the final speed value for a base 100 is 328 when fully invested. so for a mon with higher hp than def/spdef, you want to put it into those, and vice versa, until the uninvested hp is the same as the defensive stats, then you increase them both at the same time and the same rate.
ex;
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 144-171 (49.8 - 59.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO - No investment

252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 144-171 (40.9 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO - max Hp no Spdef

252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Ferrothorn: 117-138 (40.4 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO - max Spdef no Hp

252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 84 SpD Ferrothorn: 135-159 (46.7 - 55%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO - equal Spdef/Hp values

with 252 - 84 = 168 EVs remaining. 168/2 to divide them equally among Hp and Spdef, leaves 84 per stat

252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 84 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 126-148 (40.6 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO - Equal Hp and Spdef, Fully invested

As you can see, the mixed investment faired just as well as the max spdef set, while having more physical bulk on top of special bulk. this is why i think this is the optimal ratio of Hp to Def/Spdef

 

[ANinjaDude]

Yeah your right, I updated it, Lunala is less passive now, also I know tapu Lele is weird but its kinda been working for me, somewhat fast taunt and aromatherapy, plus psychic terrain to boost Mewtwo Y and shut down opposing priority

https://pokepast.es/5cda90e5d76ab81f

I've liked running Lele on a nearly mono-Psychic team, because it shuts down Sneak, allowing my Psychic types to keep up the pressure.

 

[Meet1Dude]

Feedback on my team?: Pokepaste
I know some decisions are strange, but they all have a reason, feel free to ask. (Also please don't kill me for using Sash Shadow, it's my answer to opposing setup sweepers)

I was also wondering if there was a way to view the leaderboard/ladder for this tier, because I got 144X, and I want to see how much farther I need to go to get to the top 500?

 

[Cancel cult]

Feedback on my team?: Pokepaste
I know some decisions are strange, but they all have a reason, feel free to ask. (Also please don't kill me for using Sash Shadow, it's my answer to opposing setup sweepers)

I was also wondering if there was a way to view the leaderboard/ladder for this tier, because I got 144X, and I want to see how much farther I need to go to get to the top 500?

compared to other formats, hazards are reletively rare in nd ubers. you still see them often, but in my experience, they are absent more often than not. besides, you have hazard removal. i think sash marshadow will work for you.
as for special groudon, i can only assume you used it because you want to win the groudon dittos.
overall, decent team.

First of all, you are a complete fool if you think that hazards are more often absent than they are present. They are in every battle that isn't against a lowladder scrub, and they are a vital piece of the metagame. Saying that hazards aren't common is like saying that Murkrow is viable, or that Ho-Oh isn't the best Defog user, it's either a lie, or indicative of how little you know about the meta.

I will however, concede that marshadow may need items to boost its attack. i dont see marshadow that often, so i am not that experienced in that regard.

 

[dtc09]

Feedback on my team?: Pokepaste

I know some decisions are strange, but they all have a reason, feel free to ask. (Also please don't kill me for using Sash Shadow, it's my answer to opposing setup sweepers)



I was also wondering if there was a way to view the leaderboard/ladder for this tier, because I got 144X, and I want to see how much farther I need to go to get to the top 500?

sash marshadow is in fact trash, here's why:

-it's unreliable. hazards completely ruin its gimmick and with deos being such a great HO lead and HO teams themselves being great at pressuring opponents to not let them defog, you're useless against the archetype you should be best against

-deadweight against a big portion of the playstyles. fatter teams like stall and balance always have a mon or multiple mons that completely wall it because sash marsh has no breaking power whatsoever with no boosting item. also, those teams don't have too many setup mons so you're totally useless in quite a lot of matchups.

-loses to some of the most broken sweepers rn, such as zygarde-c, xerneas and normalceus (cc doesn't ohko even a 0 HP/def arc from full and you lose to dd variants lol)

-outclassed at its role, if you want a revenge killer that is more reliable and actually useful for other roles scarf koraidon's the best speed control option rn, lo/band marsh can use sneak to pick stuff off while being an scary ass breaker, ekiller is ekiller, and there's always ditto as the de-facto revenge killer

so yeah it is trash don't use it people

sash marshadow is a meme. please don't use it, and please don't listen to murkrow guy, marshadow absolutely needs an item to do damage and hazards are a very important part of the game still. that comment is chock-full of misinformation

 

[ANinjaDude]

dont wory about sash marshadow, not having an item on marshadow isnt that big of a deal, and compared to other formats, hazards are reletively rare in nd ubers. you still see them often, but in my experience, they are absent more often than not. besides, you have hazard removal. i think sash marshadow will work for you.
as for special groudon, i can only assume you used it because you want to win the groudon dittos.
overall, decent team.

First of all, you are a complete fool if you think that hazards are more often absent than they are present. They are in every battle that isn't against a lowladder scrub, and they are a vital piece of the metagame. Saying that hazards aren't common is like saying that Murkrow is viable, or that Ho-Oh isn't the best Defog user, it's either a lie, or indicative of how little you know about the meta. Second of all, Sash Marshadow fails except against the most poorly executed attempted sweeps. If they are playing a bulky team, Marshadow bounces off without an item to boost its power. If they don't go for a boosting move, it's unlikely that you can pick up the KO on them either. Sash Marshadow's Shadow Sneak fails to OHKO MMY, a pokemon with 106/70 defenses, weak to your STAB Technician-boosted sneak. Your entire comment is full of misinformation that demonstrates that you are either actively trying to mislead a fellow forums user, or you don't know what you're speaking about.

 

[Sami]

Feedback on my team?: Pokepaste
I know some decisions are strange, but they all have a reason, feel free to ask. (Also please don't kill me for using Sash Shadow, it's my answer to opposing setup sweepers)

I was also wondering if there was a way to view the leaderboard/ladder for this tier, because I got 144X, and I want to see how much farther I need to go to get to the top 500?

Special attacking is a surprise sure, but it's not effective compared to just physical attacks. You could go Eruption though, or Overheat on more defensive sets, but not Earth Power or Thunderbolt (Precipice Blades already 2HKOs most , and Stone Edge OHKOs ).

Moveset-wise, the set is fine. The EVs are too physically defensive IMO, so you struggle to check things like . There's a smogon analysis for defensive btw.

Defensive NDM

Necrozma-Dusk Mane @ Solganium Z
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 72 Def / 188 SpD
Tera Type: Grass
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Sunsteel Strike
- Toxic
- Morning Sun

I wouldn't run on , because of terastalizing. Tera Poison isn't good on also, as Tera Fire or even Dragon for boosted Flamethrowers/Dynamax Cannons is better. Also you're missing EVs.

Like , already has a defensive set on Smogon, so you don't need to make your own. Also there's no so you don't need max Sp.Def.

Defensive Yveltal

Yveltal @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 248 HP / 76 Def / 184 Spe
Tera Type: Ghost
Timid Nature
- Foul Play
- Toxic
- Taunt
- Roost

doesn't run Substitute, if you're scared of burn you can just run Aerilate-boosted Facade. You might need Roost if you do that though.

Lastly, is bad. You need or for power, as even with excellent STAB, isn't THAT strong without them. Also is extremely inconsistent, and pretty predictable too. Also that guy saying "hazards aren't common cuz of " has no idea what he's on about.

compared to other formats, hazards are reletively rare in nd ubers. you still see them often, but in my experience, they are absent more often than not. besides, you have hazard removal. i think sash marshadow will work for you.
as for special groudon, i can only assume you used it because you want to win the groudon dittos.
overall, decent team.

View attachment 567943
I will however, concede that marshadow may need items to boost its attack. i dont see marshadow that often, so i am not that experienced in that regard.

Also, just because you have a good ladder score, doesn't make what you said right.

 

[ohninjaplease]

I tried to Verify my account in the DC a billion times. So imma ask here, what's the Gothitelle sets for Nat Ubers?

 

[arbiter1337]

What is the optimal ratio of HP to Def to survive attacks? for example;

252 Atk Life Orb Technician Marshadow Shadow Sneak vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 315-374 (84 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
vs
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Marshadow Shadow Sneak vs. 228 HP / 4 Def Dragapult: 315-374 (84.2 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
the number of invested EVs is the same, but one tanks is better than the other. the ratio of Total HP vs Def for the first calc is 2.01612903226, compared to the second calc having a flat 2. but at what point does that HP to Def ratio become the most efficient. since for another example,;
116 Atk Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Smeargle: 194-230 (76.9 - 91.2%) -- approx. 2HKO
vs
116 Atk Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Smeargle: 306-362 (97.4 - 115.2%) -- approx. 87.5% chance to OHKO
this time the build with more defensive investment to HP investment lived the hit better, with a ratio of 1.49112426036 compared to the less bulky ratio of 2.93457943925 hp per def stat. with the former example the larger number lives it better, and the latter the smaller number lives it better. How do we find the goldylocks zone to be the most bulky compared to a different ratio, with both having the same # of stats ex. 200/200 bulk to 250/150 bulk (final values, not base stats, so natures will not be relevant exept for reaching theose numbers,)

Edit:
did some more math, and now im even more confused
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Marshadow Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 232 Def Dragapult: 242-289 (76.3 - 91.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
this lives it better than either of the previous pult calcs with an hp to def ratio of 1.29918032787, not following the previous inferred amount from the previous pult clalcs showing that the more hp it had compared to def, the better it lived. this is so wierd man

how do you calc this stuff man

 

[Kin+ak (✧∇✧)]

What is the optimal ratio of HP to Def to survive attacks? for example;

252 Atk Life Orb Technician Marshadow Shadow Sneak vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 315-374 (84 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
vs
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Marshadow Shadow Sneak vs. 228 HP / 4 Def Dragapult: 315-374 (84.2 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
the number of invested EVs is the same, but one tanks is better than the other. the ratio of Total HP vs Def for the first calc is 2.01612903226, compared to the second calc having a flat 2. but at what point does that HP to Def ratio become the most efficient. since for another example,;
116 Atk Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Smeargle: 194-230 (76.9 - 91.2%) -- approx. 2HKO
vs
116 Atk Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Smeargle: 306-362 (97.4 - 115.2%) -- approx. 87.5% chance to OHKO
this time the build with more defensive investment to HP investment lived the hit better, with a ratio of 1.49112426036 compared to the less bulky ratio of 2.93457943925 hp per def stat. with the former example the larger number lives it better, and the latter the smaller number lives it better. How do we find the goldylocks zone to be the most bulky compared to a different ratio, with both having the same # of stats ex. 200/200 bulk to 250/150 bulk (final values, not base stats, so natures will not be relevant exept for reaching theose numbers,)

Edit:
did some more math, and now im even more confused
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Marshadow Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 232 Def Dragapult: 242-289 (76.3 - 91.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
this lives it better than either of the previous pult calcs with an hp to def ratio of 1.29918032787, not following the previous inferred amount from the previous pult clalcs showing that the more hp it had compared to def, the better it lived. this is so wierd man

this is a level unspoken of maths

 

[R8]

how do you calc this stuff man

https://calc.pokemonshowdown.com/

 

[arbiter1337]

https://calc.pokemonshowdown.com/

i meant the stuff about optimal ratios, none of those words are in the damage calculator

 

[Eledyr]

Once again, the National Dex Ubers Council would like to gauge YOUR opinion about the metagame, thus we're opening a new survey. Click HERE to fill it. The survey will remain open for a week, closing on Monday, November 13th at 12pm+2.

Additionally, we're feeling a bit low in numbers, and would like to add a new person in our council. Feel free to fill this slate if you think you have enough knowledge to become a National Dex Ubers Tiering Council!

 

[Kin+ak (✧∇✧)]

Sadly the tiering survey is a gdoc. why is everything a gdoc these days? can't we do a survey on something accessible worldwide?