Metagame National Dex UU Metagame Discussion - Porygon-Z Banned

[N_Mareanie]

Double posting oh god oh fuck

The council has discussed a lot about the Pokemon in UUBL over the last couple of days, and was trying to figure out if there were any Pokemon deemed to be worthy of re-testing. Numerous of options came to mind, such as Deoxys-Defense, Mew, Dragonite, Staraptor etc.

This has lead to the decision to hold a voting on every single UUBL Pokémon. The results will be announced on the 15th of November, when the next shift will take place.

This means a voting will take place on these Pokémon in particular:

List of Pokémon

Aegislash
Aerodactyl-Mega
Alakazam
Azumarill
Blacephalon
Charizard-Mega-X
Deoxys-Defense
Diancie-Mega
Diggersby
Dragonite
Gallade-Mega
Gardevoir-Mega
Gengar
Gyarados
Hawlucha
Heracross-Mega
Hoopa-Unbound
Hydreigon
Latias
Latias-Mega
Latios
Latios-Mega
Manaphy
Medicham-Mega
Mew
Pinsir-Mega
Scolipede
Slowbro-Mega
Staraptor
Tapu Lele
Thundurus
Thundurus-Therian
Venusaur-Mega
Victini
Xurkitree
Aurora Veil
Drizzle
Drought

See y'all in a week.

 

[Cold Apple Soda]

Funny announcement time. We may or may not have missed one pretty interesting thing.
| 32 | Hippowdon | 5.578% |
Hippo is OU by usage so uhh, goodbye UU hippo bois. It's a sad day for hippo lovers everywhere.
tagging The Immortal Kris so they can implement

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

I think the most interesting case here is Aurora Veil.

What must be done regarding this is testing to see if Vanilluxe, Aurorus, or Abomasnow Aurora Veil is nearly as big of a problem than Ninetales Aurora Veil. In theory it doesn't look to be the case since those former 3 are much slower than Alolan Ninetales, but we'll see. Either Alolan Ninetales is the problem or Veil is.

Other thoughts:

Mew or Deo-D might end up in similar circumstances to one another, the former outclasses the latter entirely now for the most part. Unless there's something I'm forgetting.

Sun and Rain probably shouldn't be let back in. With the expanded toolset in NatDex especially, these playstyles just destroy other offensive teams easily and aren't easily beaten by defensive builds either. In general they'll just centralize the meta way too much.

Otherwise don't have THAT much to say. Maybe retest Staraptor? We still don't have much checks to it defensively. We have Skarmory and Celesteela now which is cool, Mega Sableye does a good job versus it, and we have Doublade as usual, but otherwise not much.

Don't have much clue on the others. Probably not worth letting them in.

 

[LORD SAGIS]

I'll put down my personal wish list.

Aurora Veil

I doubt that even Ninetails-A would be that bad to be honest. I know a lot of sweepers benefit from it but we have a better setters like Grimmsnarl in the tier at the moment.



Little on the fence but theres nothing wrong with retesting this pokemon. Although Hippo leaving does make this harder to justify.



A lot has changed since Azumarill was last here. Tapu Bulu, Rotom-W, and Starmie are now common mons in the tier nowadays. Making sweeping with BD a lot harder. CB may be a little powerful for the tier but we'll see.



At the time this thing got banned we had things like Mega Heracross and Mega Gallade in the tier. However the meta is less power creep-ed now so it might be fine.



Salamence isn't very good right now and Dragonite is only slightly better than it at DD sweeping. It has issues getting past Skarmory and Celesteela and shit like Scizor BP should probably do fine in keeping it in check. But its also hard to kill and stop from setting up so I would free this with caution.



I never had Scolipede on my mind when it was in the tier and was surprise to see it suddenly banned in June. Skarmory, Celesteela and Scizor should annoy it and low bulk and bad typing mean its often only way of getting a SD up is against mons that are weak to Megahorn as a lot of Pokemon can just choose to stay against it with the trade of knowing that it won't be able to setup a SD and have to relie on a meh 100 Attack stat.



Staraptor was last seen when the tier had shit like Mega Charizard Y and Magnezone. CB Brave Bird is insanely powerful but it dies very quickly lol. I would give it another chance.



This may come from my love for Gen 5 UU but I would like to see Victini retested. CB V-create is insanely strong but it has issues dealing with Pursuit users because of the choice lock and lowering Defense and Speed stat. Scarf has the same issues but it trades nuking defensive teams with offensive teams but that set is still trapped by Krookodile and Weavile after it kills something. The only issue it would have is how we deal with the Z-Celebrate sets. We do have Specially Defensive Slowking and it can kinda be reliant on Hazard chip to get KOs but its still kinda limited but again, we'll see.

 

[Niadev]

Funny announcement time. We may or may not have missed one pretty interesting thing.
| 32 | Hippowdon | 5.578% |
Hippo is OU by usage so uhh, goodbye UU hippo bois. It's a sad day for hippo lovers everywhere.

This is indeed a funny announcement. I personally didn't use Hippowdon much outside of two games in NDPL, but funnily enough they're the only times I've used Hippowdon in recent memory lmao.

Ok, so I've seen some people asking why AVeil was banned initially and not Alolatales. I asked N_Mareanie and the basic reason is that back then the sweepers we had were so insane that even wack stuff like Vanilluxe provided enough support with aveil to push a bunch of stuff over the edge. Of course, the vast majority of those are gone (although they're also being revoted on so eh but the majority of them are def not coming back) so if aveil is broken in the future we'll probably ban Alolatales first and then look back into aveil if it somehow ends up with more than just Atales breaking it. It'd be very surprising if it was, though, seeing as Grimmsnarl has been here for ages and is in many ways better and has remained squarely in the not broken camp.

From here on I'm gonna go over my reasons for voting unban on the mons I have (so far) voted to unban:

Spoiler

The meta is radically different from what it was when Aegi was here last time. Krookodile is leagues more common than it was back then, and Pursuit is extremely limiting for non KS sets (Pursuit does upwards of 80% to bladeislash even without the switchout boost, meaning spamming Shadow Ball is frankly a bad idea), making the choiced sets that made it so overwhelming in the past extremely limited at best and liabilities at worst. As for other sets we'll have to see but choiced sets are almost certainly going to be not very good, if not outright bad. I also kinda wanna see its effect on the meta, with its typing and bulk opening a lot of options for BO and balance when it comes to checking stuff and not being a passive piece of ass. We also have a viable Dark/Flying type that isn't passive beyond belief now in Galarian Moltres, which can fit on offensive teams much more easily, and Urshifu just negates King's Shield shenanigans and can force SubTox sets to take serious damage even if sub is up due to Surging Strike's multi hit nature.


From test games I've played with it, it is not that amazing. As a bulky spiker, it is insanely passive and exploitable, and Skarmory is just far more splashable. HO doesn't have insane enough sweepers that spikes stacking lead sets would break them, in much the same way Grimmsnarl failed to break existing HO teams when it was unbanned.


This thing was banned mere days after Skarmory dropped and the meta has changed a fair bit since then, especially with the recent bans of Latias and Mega Diancie. The meta is somewhat more offensive now that teams aren't forced to bend backwards to check Mega Diancie defensively, lest they lose a mon every time it comes in on any mon lower than 110 (which is a fair amount), so it would have theoretically less opportunities. Having no counters is also not necessarily grounds for being broken, as CB Urshi, SD Terrak, SD Bulu and CB Buzzwole have no counters and are for the large part fine. Also it would be kinda weird to vote to ban this and vote unban for Hoopa-U lmao.


I thought DWB would break mence. Boy was I wrong. This thing will definitely be better than mence, for sure, but it's not so much better that giving it a chance is unreasonable. SubRoostDD sets fail to really do much vs most existing balances due to Skarmory's prevalance on bulkier teams, though BO is kinda up the creek vs it if it gets going, and Dual Wingbeat has double helmet recoil, meaning it is very tough for it to deal with Skarmory while keeping Multiscale intact, which is what SubRoost sets thrive on. MAlt is also a bad time for it.


This one I'm a bit more iffy on but with Scizor being freer than ever to run Choice Band, Skarmory and MAlt being good and Slowking shenanigans remaining pretty good, I'm willing to give it a go, especially if Aegislash is freed. HO has to use another slot for Bulu or Pincurchin, which are not particularly considered first choice HO mons, especially in the latter's case.


Now I know you think I'm crazy but Hoopa-U has been banned for a long time and the meta it was in back then has not even vaguest resemblance to the meta now. With Pursuit being pretty good, Choice sets will find themselves being heavily limited and NP will struggle to do anything to more offensive teams due to its poor speed, lack of ins without pivoting support, and far less opportunities to exploit a special mon and setup on it, like it would have with Latias. Having no counters is also not instant grounds for being broken either, as I elaborated on in Diggersby's section. Ripping stall to shreds isn't super relevant rn as stall isn't relevant with Blissey gone. This thing will either be insane or kinda meh.


In regards to the hazard stack sets, it's just the same deal as with Deo-D, though Mew would just be better. Boosting sets might be funky but we can ban the main likely broken element, Mewnium, in the later quickvote. We have precedent from last gen after all. Mew could theoretically offer a lot to the tier and I don't think non Mewnium Mew boosting sets will be particularly notable. It would also be nice to have a bulky psychic that isn't relegated solely to balance and semi stall.


Again, the meta is very different compared to back then. Urshifu is a common offensive mon that checks most Scolipede sets, as is Buzzwole, and Scizor is, once again, way more freed up now that both Latias and Mega Diancie are gone to run offensive sets that fare better at checking Scolipede. Oh yeah and Scizor in general is a big L for Scolipede.


This was a hard sell for me, as any team without Skarmory, bulky Jirachi (which fell off a fair bit post Latias/MDia), Rhyperior or Mega Steelix is gonna struggle to not have one bagged by it every time it comes in. Fortunately, its rare for it to make it past two kills in the best case scenario due to recoil, and the best case scenario is no rocks up and no pursuit mons. Pursuit can also limit it, especially as recoil chip racks up. Scarf won't be problematic at all, what with the continued prevalence of things like the Rotoms, Slowking and Jirachi. Worth giving a shot I guess, and it'd be funny if it were balanced and we could save Staraptor from eternal UUBL Hell.


Banded sets, while insanely strong, are limited by Pursuit, in much the same way Choiced Aegislash would be, and Z-Celebrate (or whatever omniboosting move it gets) was rather mediocre last time it was here. Latias leaving is a bit worrisome for the balance of Victini but Mega Altaria is now extremely good (it was B+/B when Victini was last here) so we def have options. Definitely something to keep an eye on but not so overwhelming that it can't be given a chance.

Aurora Veil:
Not much to say that hasn't already been said. If Grimmsnarl wasn't broken, it's highly doubtful this will be either, and either way banning the move entirely isn't the play anymore, as, as I mentioned above, the meta's sweepers are not so insane that stuff like Vanilluxe will break them, which was the justification for banning the whole move last time.

 

[N_Mareanie]

I'm probably one of the more ban happy people in this community (just ignore the time I voted Do Not Ban on Mega Blastoise, which I still stand by btw), but I'm going to vote Unban on a bunch of Pokémon in this slate. Reason for that is because the meta is drastically different than when most of the 'mons on the slate is here, the playerbase is like 100x bigger (a lot of bans happened when we had like, 5 people playing this) and it's a lot easier nowadays to find out what stuff is broken / unhealthy and what not, especially with the tour coming up. Now, the playerbase isn't big enough for an entire UUBL unban sadly, but I still think the opportunity to unban a large portion of 'mons is here and we should definitely take it.

My personal unban-list down below, with very small and brief explanations to support it.


Aegislash is a 'mon that never saw much time in the tier, as it was very swiftly quickbanned months ago after it first dropped. Since then, a lot has changed. Krookodile, Gastrodon, Moltres and Amoonguss have seen a lot more use, which all can check Aegislash well to an extent. Pokemon like Skarmory and Earthquake Buzzwole are solid checks, and I feel like Aegislash can be pressured enough to not be an overwhelming force in our tier to be considering unhealthy. We'll probably see the rise of different sets and counterplay, like Mandibuzz, Galarian Moltres, Bulky SD Knock Off Scizor, EQ Buzzwole. Maybe more Infiltrator Chandelure to deal with SubTox sets. Band Shifu also cleanly 2HKO's and hits through King's Shield.


I'm going to vote unban on this purely because I think we didn't give it enough time in hindsight, and in such an unbanning slate I think this should be included. Despite Mega Aero nuking nearly every offense team in existence, it did still have counterplay, albeit limiting. Strong priority is pretty easily accessible, and pivots can be made around it to get checks in safely. Now, Hippowdon not being here kind of really sucks as it always forced big Helmet chip on Aero, but I still think trying it out to make sure it's actually broken isn't a bad idea, especially in such a big unban voting.


Celesteela, SpDef Skarmory, Jirachi, bulky Bulu are all good checks vs this. Mega Sableye isn't horrible per se, Slowking can check and Teleport into offensive check, faster Pursuit users are everywhere (Scarf Krookodile, Weavile). Indeedee support could be annoying but Indeedee is a shit 'mon which would kind of make it a 5v6. This is purely speculation of course and I might be entirely wrong, but I still think we should give it a try, especially now that most bulky Steels can focus on checking Alakazam now that Latias and Mega Diancie are gone.


Will vote unban on this purely because I do think we had checks for it and was banned too quickly to adapt vs it fully. Specs and Scarf were not broken, and SubCM sets lack the initial power to actually kill things from full. It can't really run Boots meaning it's not hard to chip, lacks opportunities to come in vs most of our tier. It'll probs still be centralizing and maybe it is indeed broken, but I don't think it'd hurt to try it out a bit more.


This 'mon is mid and should just be unbanned without thinking about it twice.


Was less sure about this one, but when Diggersby was here it did still have some problems. Its choiced sets were extremely easy to punish and SD sets do still lack the actual speed tier to sweep every team out there. Maybe if the meta shifts to a more balance-y state it would prove to be overbearing, but in an offensive meta I just don't think that'd be the case and think it deserves another try in the tier.


Salamence isn't broken and has been shown to never even be problematic at all imo. Dragonite, while being better than Salamence for sure, has some of the same problems. First of all, it suffers from 4MSS. It wants Z-Fly to break, DD to set up, Fire Punch for steels, ESpeed for revenge killers like Ice Shard Weav, Dragon stab for Rotoms etc. Fire Punch isn't even strong vs a lot of steels so often you'd want EQ, which would leave you walled by Skarm and Steela. It also needs Z to break, meaning it can't run Boots and has to take rocks damage, thus it often can't keep its Multiscale intact. I really feel like Dnite has a good chance to stay in the tier and we'll see if that happens.


Probably very broken but I still feel like base 110 speed strong breaker, despite near unwallable, can be offensively pressured enough to not set up and revenged in a lot of games. Though to be honest, the more I think about it the more this thing just sounds unhealthy considering you can't even Intimidate it anymore due to Inner Focus being immune.


Still think this 'mon struggles with bulkier cores and even though its 4th slot can make it so it gets through its checks, should it not have that 4th move it can sometimes prove to struggle a lot in a match. I'm kind of iffy about this still and would probably end up being pretty unhealthy, but 100 base speed, trappable, and decent pivots for it means I don't think it'll be a large problem initially.


I do think we have enough counterplay vs this, especially if Aegislash ends up being actually unbanned. Set up opportunities aren't always going to be there, Mega Altaria is dominant, strong prio is fairly common, Skarm is goat. Will probs be very solid but I doubt it'd be broken. This was also a 'mon we banned very quickly after it dropped and thus I do think it deserves more time here anyway.


hoopa-u lacks the speed tier to be broken and has a shitload of good offensive counterplay. its physdef bulk is horrible thus makes it trappable, has no latis to abuse for a free switch and like the entire tier is physical. might be problematic later on if we shift into a more balance-y state, but in a new meta when everything's offensive i rlly doubt this'll be extremely busted.


I just want to see chaos :)


Want to see if we can give this a bit more time to see if we can manage to find counterplay vs this. Will probably still be hard but if we end up unbanning stuff like SpDef Aegislash, Mega Garde, maybe others, I could see this thing staying. Meta is going to drastically change anyway.


This 'mon actually has genuine potential to be here. Should we unban Aegi, Deo-D and Mew we gain solid defensive counterplay upon the already two we have, being Reuniclus and Mega Sableye. Not to mention base 100 speed is just enough to be considered dumb broken imo. It's susceptible to being revenge killed a lot of the time by the loads of faster 'mons we have. You can also def pivot around this considering Psychic and fighting STAB both have immunities. Definitely wanna give this a shot.


Mew was originally banned due to it being too good of a suicide lead but times has changed heavily. Most of the dumb breakers from back then are gone, boots are used a lot more, and we're used to good dual hazard leads in Skarmory. Mewnium Z could be problematic but then we just ban mewnium z.


Edge Buzz, Skarm, Flame Steela, Aegi if it returns, defensive Scizor all annoy this. It needs Z-Water, Megahorn, Poison Jab and thus lacks EQ leaving it walled by mons like Empoleon and lacks breaking power vs mons like Mega Aggron. Strong prio like Accelrock Duskroc, Shard mamo & weav, BP sciz hurt this too and even twave klefki and grimm can hurt this things sweeping capabilities. it'll be good but not broken imo.


ALRIGHT. Band Raptor is very very fucking strong but base 100 speed, like mmedi, is just not enough to be a broken behemoth. Rocks weak, both STABs force a shitload of recoil on you and ur easily revenged. scarf fixed the speed problem but lacks the breaking power to be considered overbearing. I think this 'mon has a very good chance to be balanced esp if we get stuff like Aegi here.


lele wasn't that absurd when it was here and esp if we unban stuff like mew and aegi it'll be a lot more manageable. its speed tier sucks to sweep teams and psychic/fairy can be pivoted into fairly easily since we have a shitload of good steels. z-fight was very good but not uncounterable cause rachi, spdef skarm and steela still took it well. mega garde is wayyy stronger than this and can easily switch up moves. i think this deserves a 2nd chance.


im iffy about this thing but im interested. rocks weak, trappable, base 100 (again) isnt that crazy. it's very very versatile but i think we could manage this due to the general power level of the tier and offensive counterplay. we could adapt to this like using more incin, physdef gastro, cune, rhyp, twave heattom. z-celebrate looks very cool but i don't think it'd be gamebreaking (tho no tran and bliss/chans hmm).

Aurora Veil
alolan ninetales is shit and grimm will likely just be a better screen setter.

that's basically my thoughts. might have a lot of hot takes but i genuinely think we should take this moment to try out most of the UUBL list and i voted unban on these as i think these all have the biggest chance to stay. see y'all on sunday for results!

 

[Cold Apple Soda]

Welp Sunday is gonna be the equivalent of opening Pandora's Box in an orphanage, so I might as well expose myself and say what I voted unban for and give my thoughts. I expect these changes on Sunday to 100% shake up the meta, and I'm not 100% sure on how balanced most of these unbans are (unless you're Deoxys-D) so here goes nothing. Warning Aegi is a bible cause I have a lot to say about it.


The meta compared to the meta before was extremely different, but even in that meta I do think it was banned unfairly (ignore me voting ban). Despite the meta back then being primarily balance we never really adapted to it and more or less kinda just let it shred through the teams. Suit trappers were extremely good back then, Buzzwole and Moltres were fine back then, etc. Fast forward to current meta said things before are even more relevant, that doesn't even add in the rise of other mons such as Amoonguss and Gligar (which is really solid if you need a hippo replacement and 1v1s subtox Aegi). We have new faces such as GMolt which can deal with it decently and have stuff like Mandi. The list goes on.

Aegislash also suffers from the fact it has a fairly hard time coming in vs offensive teams due to momentum spam being so reliable currently. Choiced sets are completely fucked by the relevance of strong suit trappers due to the lack of KS and KS + Toxic/SubTox set gets thrashed due to just being really exploitable. Though I don't want to only highlight the bad cause I feel that's incredibly disingenuous on what Aegi can do in our current meta. Offensive sets are the definition of balance murder. Ghost/Steel/Fighting coverage is fairly hard to check well if the Aegi player can get the predictions down. SD sets can run Z move to be a really strong wincon and freely nuke something but sadly that comes at the cost of having to either run sneak (which leaves you fucked by suit so u pretty much need Colbur) or KS (leaves you fucked by offense). Ghost/Steel + solid enough defenses allows it to come in on some of the stuff it would like to come in on such as Amoonguss, Malt (lacking EQ), Sylveon, etc.


I am 100% unsure how I feel about this, though I'm giving it a fair chance due to the meta being a bit more offensive and less Balance heavy with Venu gone. Tl;Dr we have plenty of reliable of psychic resist in Rachi, Steela and Spdef Skarm to name a few. While also having plenty of offensive measures in reliable scarfers, suit trappers and priority. Also with the meta being this offensive I think Zam finds it a bit harder to NP up and go nuts on teams. Though, that's where most of my hopes kinda leave. The glaring issues are definitely Magic Guard (essentially free boots) + LO boosted coverage being able to muscle through most checks quite easily. Psychic/Focus/Shadow Ball can handle most psychic answers extremely well. Let's not ignore that Zam has a healthy base 120 speed meaning it can muscle through a lot of offensive teams with naturally good base speed. Though this can be played around with the meta adapting with stuff like Jet BandShifu.


This shit is fucking mid.


This mon was once a demon. The meta was balance centered back then. I think our current meta is going to definitely highlight the major downsides to Diggers. Middling defenses and below average speed are huge flaws for it. Our meta being this offensive definitely means that Diggers can't just come in for free from a pivot and win by SDing and clicking stabs. Though that doesn't mean Diggers will be bad, it will definitely be a pretty strong mon due to being so strong naturally. Not to mention it has QA which is a pretty solid out vs offense to pick off weakened mons. Though that often means you're dropping Fire Punch coverage on SD sets which means your Skarm MU vs Balance is quite shaky seeing how Curse Skarm is really solid rn.


Mence is pretty fucking mid rn. Dragonite is pretty much Mence, but better. I do think it's much much better due to multiscale, but it suffers the same fate as Mence IMO if not worse. It has too many things it wants for moveslots. And I think Mareanie said this well enough already.

It wants Z-Fly to break, DD to set up, Fire Punch for steels, ESpeed for revenge killers like Ice Shard Weav, Dragon stab for Rotoms etc. Fire Punch isn't even strong vs a lot of steels so often you'd want EQ, which would leave you walled by Skarm and Steela. It also needs Z to break, meaning it can't run Boots and has to take rocks damage, thus it often can't keep its Multiscale intact. I really feel like Dnite has a good chance to stay in the tier and we'll see if that happens.

Ngl this is prolly very very broken. It has good enough speed and bulk that most offensive teams can't really kill it in one go and most likely have to sac a mon just to deal with it. Not being able to lower the attack with intimidate is also pretty iffy. But, I wanted to at least give it a second chance and see if we did have some specific out vs it if the meta is capable of adapting to it.


This had limited time when it was last here. We have many outs vs it with strong priority, malt being really good rn which pressures it greatly, Aegi is coming back (Spoiled L), Skarm is really good and rocks being rocks kinda weaken it a bit. It's definitely strong, but I do think it will be balanced.


While Hoopa might end up being really broken I do think it has some glaring weaknesses. A speed tier that is really mid in an offensively orientated meta and shitty physical defense + plenty of strong physical attackers that can easily deal with it offensively, this also leaves it pretty trappable.

Funny Hoopa-U Fact Of The Day!

Z-Snatch eliminates your shitty Offense MU by giving you +2 speed. It also gives you a free nuke if you're facing bulkier based builds. It's prolly a decent item on special sets.

I do think this has a slightly higher chance of staying than Mega Gallade. Lower speed + shitty defenses kinda suck in a meta this offensive. Though, this has priority options in Fake Out/Bullet Punch which allows it to chip answers or even check specific offensive answers instantly. Incredibly high attack coupled with HJK + Zen/Other coverage allows it to completely shred bulkier teams lacking MSableye, Reuniclus, or some other decent defensive answer. Issue with 90% of defensive counterplay is that exist. The consistency of FuturePort kinda throws all defensive counterplay not named Sableye-M out the window. So yeah, it's pretty shaky if this is balanced or not lol. Giving it a chance tho!


Mew doesn't have the breakers it had before that it enabled. Boots are extremely common and the passivity of it can be exploited easily. Mewnium-Z is fucking broken tho. We can just ban Mewnium-Z whenever that comes around.


Scoli is a mon that isn't even broken. It's just unhealthy due to Speed Boost. Tho, I do think our meta has the ability to somewhat handle it. Plenty of defensive and offensive answers exist to handle it quite well, and we can definitely see current stuff adapt to handle it. I think it has a pretty high chance at staying in the tier.


Raptor hits hard and that's pretty much where the good things stop F. 100 base speed, weak rocks + shitty defenses, stabs cause you to essentially kill yourself over time. We have good enough offensive counterplay to warrant it to be unbanned and I think even our defensive counterplay is sufficient enough. Scarf is really solid, but you're much weaker and still have the same issue in that you kill yourself, while being extremely exploitable by strong priority.


Z Celebrate is looking to be an oof and a half, but it does struggle a bit with sturdy spdef walls. The other sets have issues in 100 speed not being sufficient enough to be called "overbearing" and gets fucked by suit and strong scarfers IE Krook and Keld. I do think the versatility brings a questionable amount of unpredictability to the table, such as most physical Cictini checks getting fucked by Mixed Ebelt and Specs sets.


If Veil ends up being broken at all then we can simply just ban Alolan Ninetales which is objectively the best setter. Even then Alolatales is pretty meh and I do think Grimmsnarl/Klefki are better due to prankster allowing them to not only set screens but provide other support in taunt and twave respectively. Which helps out teams a bit in shutting down defoggers and allowing twave hax to give teammates chances to set up.


That's pretty much my thoughts, I didn't go over shit I suspected cause I wanted to just highlight what I voted unban for. Cya Sunday and have a good day!!!!

 

[N_Mareanie]

SHIFTS

UUBL --> OU

UU --> OU

OU --> UU

UNBANS

Results

- 7 UU
- 2 UU / 5 UUBL
- 5 UU / 1 UUBL / 1 Suspect
- 7 UUBL
- 2 UU / 5 UUBL
- 7 UUBL
- 7 UU
- 7 UUBL
- 7 UU
- 7 UU
- 4 UU / 3 UUBL
- 3 UU / 3 UUBL / 1 Suspect
- 3 UU / 4 UUBL
- 7 UUBL
- 5 UU / 2 UUBL
- 7 UUBL
- 7 UU
- 4 UU / 3 UUBL
- 2 UU / 2 UUBL / 3 Suspect
1 UU / 6 UUBL
- 7 UUBL
- 7 UUBL
- 7 UUBL
- 4 UU / 2 UUBL / 1 Suspect
- 6 UU / 1 UUBL
- 7 UUBL
- 7 UU
- 7 UUBL
- 7 UU
- 2 UU / 4 UUBL / 1 Suspect
- 5 UUBL / 2 Suspect
- 4 UUBL / 3 Suspect
- 2 UU / 4 UUBL / 1 Suspect
- 7 UU
- 1 UU / 6 UUBL
Aurora Veil - 5 UU / 2 UUBL
Drizzle - 7 UUBL
Drought - 2 UUBL / 5 Suspect

A Pokémon needed 5 votes to get unbanned. Suspect vote does not count towards an Unban vote.

Aegislash, Alakazam, Deoxys-Defense, Diggersby, Dragonite, Hawlucha, Hoopa-Unbound, Mew, Scolipede, Staraptor, Victini & Aurora Veil have been unbanned from National Dex UU.


Note that Mewnium Z is still legal.
​

Kris The Immortal thank u very much if u guys could implement this

 

[Niadev]

I haven't played as much as I'd like to since the bans (IRL stuff and all) but here's some general opinions on mons I've seen/used


Oh lordy this thing is way better than I thought it'd be. Specs is my favourite set right now over banded, as while Band may have way more immediate power, it's way easier to pursuit trap by the near mandatory pursuit mon, and has a better matchup vs common grounds such as Hippowdon, Rhyperior and Swampert, as Blue Flare/Psychic hit both on their typically weaker defense. Expert Belt is definitely something I need to get around to using too, and HDB could be something as a pivot with offensive presence. I'd argue this mon is easily top 3 right now, if not from the effectiveness of any single set then for the sheer set variety this thing has.


This thing is really something, huh. The ORAS OU Classic Specs set is definitely my favourite set, as it hits the most in one set and is much harder to pursuit trap than band. Mandi is the biggest issue but it doesn't need much chip for Focus to 2HKO and if you care that much you can either Trick it or run Thunderbolt and 2HKO. The offensiveness of the meta definitely plays against it, reducing the amount it can come in a lot, though it still devours any balance build without Pursuit or Mandi. Oh and Z Snatch is absolutely a threat which can definitely mess up offensive checks, though fortunately it's easier to handle defensively.


literally no reason to use this thing aside from some wack dual hazards + port passive piece of garbo cheeks moving on
EDIT: actually physdef teleport is a BO Hawlucha check that isn't a huge momentum sink, so that's a niche ig. I'll have to experiment with that but man why is Hawlucha making me even consider using this thing
EDIT 2: mew also gets Teleport so uh yeah back to no reason to use this thing


Man remember when I thought this thing would be booty? SubDisableWisp just kinda said no huh. Nothing like invalidating all your pursuit trappers, and its not like we have any good ghost resists aside from those trappers (which you already beat because they're basically all choiced). Not unmanageable (Krook can literally just switch out and come back in for free) but most of it has to play awkwardly around subdisable shenanigans. I wouldn't really run any other set right now, though, maybe like SubNP but you'd only really end up subbing to escape Krook 4 times and dying, though there's nothing saying you can't run NP over Wisp. You just lose the ability to cripple what's very likely to be their speed control. btw SubDisableWisp plus Reuniclus is an epic core.


uuuuuuuuugggh I hate building for this thing on non balance teams. The Aegi MU comes down to a matter of KS mindgames thanks to Throat Chop and very little RKs +def seed sets from full, and not much is both a hard wall and a what I'd consider a good fit for more offensive teams. Slowking is about your only other option but as good as Slowking is, it doesn't fit on every offensive team and forcing offensive teams to run it to not have to play 50/50s with lucha seems a little unhealthy, not to mention it loses to Throat Chop if it goes below 67% or so. Because trust me, if you have no check for it, you basically autolose unless you can somehow get it down to half and BP it with CB Scizor (or down to ~57% with CB Weavile), and setup opportunities are rife for it right now with all the Krookodiles and Weaviles choice locked into Pursuit, and that's before seed shenanigans. Granted, it does lose pretty hard to most bulky phys walls not weak to its STABs, but get back to me when you find a way to make Hippo and Skarm fit on offensive teams and if you say band hippo and band skarm istg im getting council to unban xard. Might be worth waiting a bit as once the meta bulks up a little it'll have a rougher time but right now this thing is pretty insane.


Dragonite is good but its MU vs fat stuff is extremely poor thanks to how weak Dual Wingbeat is. Z Fly works but it leaves you open to a number of other common defensive Pokemon, and you don't have much in the way of reliable STAB. You don't even have to be that physically bulky to wall this thing, like even Slowking can do it, and, while it's not physically frail, I wouldn't call it a premier physdef wall either. Firium helps with Skarm but needs prior chip to OHKO.


Band still usually bags one if it comes in (assuming no Aegislash, max HP Jirachi or Skarmory) but if is the imperative here. It has almost no good defensive switchin options aside from Spectrier and even then Skarmory is always choiced so it loses hard to SubDisable. Not to mention that due to recoil, it can be brought to being in range of Pursuit, meaning it can be limited to an extent.


As a band mon it's outclassed by Staraptor in terms of sheer damage but it can't be Pursuit trapped, has an easier time dealing with traditional Staraptor defensive checks, and isn't weak to rocks. Where it has the clear advantage, however, is as a Scarfer, as it revenges a lot more stuff thanks to STAB Close Combat. It can also touch Aegislash without having to U-turn thanks to Throat Chop (the accuracy drop of Blaze Kick isn't worth it for an extra 5 BP imo) and Aegi can't KS it because of Defiant. This mon will probably be very solid down the line, though at the minute it struggles to distinguish itself from other breakers.

Now it's time for good picks:

Spoiler

Ok, this thing is good now. Blissey and Latias leaving are huge for it, as both were extremely common dead stops for this thing. Maybe we were too harsh on it, idk. It's a very effective offensive pivot, being able to fire off Volts and fry Amoonguss and Bulu with Overheat. It also checks Sciz so that's neat, and it's a good RKer for a number of the drops. Very solid mon (man I never thought I'd say that in NDUU) to consider if you're doing voltturn shenanigans.


This thing is really neat for BO as it switches into a number of the flying unbans and non special Victini, while checking Mega Manectric. It also does this while providing rocks and being non passive, which is amazing for Bulky Offense.


Man this thing loves offense being the wave again. The amount of HO means that scarf is actually kinda solid again. Nowhere near as good as it was when it initially dropped, those days are long gone, but it scares HO shitless. The really hot set though is Bulk Up Icium, providing a breaker that bypasses two traditional checks to it while also checking Weavile. Defensive Buzzwole being at a low is also great for it, though it still dislikes the prevalence of stuff like Rocky Helmet Skarmory. And of course, Band is as solid as ever, though it needs more prediction to use thanks to the newly unbanned Dragonite.

The losers:

Ok, it's not bad by any means, and it's still a solid A+ mon, but the number of new phys threats it doesn't check makes defensive really awkward to justify sometimes. Aegi forcing it into EQ also means its way more inviting for Dragonite and Hawlucha, basically any flying that resists fighting. Band and BU are probably solid still.


This thing was already kinda mid and was probably gonna drop to A- even before the drops, but now there's very little reason to use it over Dnite. I guess it can run DD Life Orb without making its ability useless, and its a better special attacker, but that's about it. Neither are particularly impressive.


Man is this thing hard to justify. There's way easier to fit and frankly better phys breakers and its only real niche is bodying non SubDisable Spectrier... which are mostly kinda meh anyways. Stall is also nonexistent now that MSab and Blissey are gone, not to mention we have Hoopa-U and Victini on the scene, so its use as a stallbreaker is next to nonexistent. The reduction in Buzzwole is nice for it ig.

 

[LORD SAGIS]

With round 1 nearly over I would to go over 2 Pokemon I feel have been issues in the tier when they dropped.



Spectrier is incredibly hard to reliable beat. Its speed makes it great against most offensive Pokemon in the tier, and its high SpA means its also great against most defensive Pokemon. Because its high speed and substitute Pursuiting it is not enough in the team builder. In terms of checks, the easiest to fit is probably having 2 priority users on the same team. This is a lot harder to do on paper than on practice because Spectrier's Will-O-Wisp cripples about every revenge killer. In terms of better answers, Mega Houndoom, Porygon-Z and Mandiuzz do decently. However, Mega Houndoom is stealth rock weak, Porygon-Z doesn't run leftovers so it has to Recover off every burn down it has, and Mandibuzz is very abusable.



Hawlucha's ability to snowball very quickly has forced Pokemon like Aegislash and Skarmory on most teams. My issue with it is how many ways it can Snowball. The obvious is Terrain 3 attacks which lets it immediately get the Unburden boost. But it can also run Power Herb Sky Attack to nuke things like Mega Altaria and still get the boost for a potential sweep. Fighting/Flying STABs is one of the biggest driving forces behind Hawlucha's success as many of its answers have to relie on there raw bulk to be able to take its hit. While is definitely not unbeatable it still puts a massive strain on teambuilding.

Banning these 2 will surely help teambuilding and make the metagame more enjoyable.

Cool Stuff



Houndoom-Mega @ Houndoominite
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- Sludge Bomb
- Pursuit

Mega Houndoom is one of best offensive answers to Spectrier and its pre-mega ability let it switch into a V-create and trap Victini. Dark/Fire are amazing STABs to have and Sludge Bomb lets it hit Mega Altaria on the switch.



Nihilego @ Power Herb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Meteor Beam
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Nihilego is a great hazard setter on more offensive teams. Meteor Beam is absolutely nuclear to anything doesn't resists it. It literally doesn't loose to any Defogger so it free to always have its Rocks up.



Victini @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Blue Flare
- U-turn
- Thunderbolt
- Glaciate

Probably my favorite Victini set. It lets come in more use its good typing for better defensive use. Glaciate is a underrated move Victini. You think Pokemon like Z-Celebrate Victini would easily beat but Glaciate lets it slow down many Pokemon that try to setup on it giving it a lot of useful roles on one's team.

 

[Cold Apple Soda]

I've been quite busy, but I have been playing the meta and building when I have gotten the chance. It's quite fun and I wanted to kinda just go over brief thoughts about some things.


It does what it always does in every single metagame. Except Taunt>Roost is normally preferred, you are able to shut down Toxic + KS Aegi and Skarm's trying to boost defenses with Curse/IDef, and effectively 1v1 them in a lot of scenarios. Unburden allows it to effectively outspeed the entire metagame (even boosted by scarf in most scenarios) and just snowball out of control and win. The meta has really no real ways to deal with it besides priority (if you weaken it), Slowking Future Sight or smart pivoting if you're able to get off a status. It's not too hard to build around either, just pair with solid terrain mon and profit. The options are pretty vast here with the introduction of extra terrain setters, Pincurchin + Lucha + Alolachu, Indeedee + Hawlucha, Mewnium Z + Hawlucha and Bulu + Lucha. It definitely depends on what u want to build around. Overall I think this mon is just still too good at what it does and I'd definitely expect a suspect on it one of these days.

(spectrier)
Sub+Wisp+Disable is all that I need to say. The naturally high base speed allows spect to quite easily sub up vs most defensive squads and just harass them to death by itself by wisping would be checks such as Krook and Weave. Not to mention it is capable of picking up KOs on weakened mons and quite easily snowball with Grim Neigh and just blow through semi weakened teams if the dark is gone. I really don't have much else to say about it, like it's not broken like Hawlucha, it's just really fucking unhealthy and puts a considerable amount of strain on the builder IMO. Since you're more or less pushed to run really awkward sets such as Foul Play + Dark Pulse Mandibuzz so ur not completely fucked after being disabled and wisped.

Stuff I'm Fuckin With


Jordy put me onto this ugly ass thing. It's a bulky special pivot with port, so it's essentially some ratchet ass Blissey replacement. It works tho, you're able to completely check special tini variants, specs prim, rotom appliances and FuturePort, while at the same time you're spreading toxic around and crippling shit for your team. It's really nice and I recommend testing it out.


I talked about Amoonguss already, but AV Amoonguss is pretty cool and I've been using it a bit in the current meta. U lack spore which is a F, but you're a fat ass pivot with regen that's able to check special attackers a bit more reliably such as specs keldeo (air slash doesn't 2hko) and Primarina. Not to mention you're able to handle toxic + ks aegislash since most are modest. It's overall really solid imo.

 

[Niadev]

Seeing as at this point the Spectrier horse (heh) is thoroughly beaten to death and long since decayed both here and on the discord, I'm going to talk about Hawlucha. I kind of touched on Hawlucha before but recent developments have lead me to think this thing is even more unhealthy and borked than it was before. So, now for everyone's favourite gameshow, How Does Hawlucha Beat this Check!


And for our first contestant, it's big, it's mean, it brings a (sand)storm with it wherever it goes, we have Hippowdon! The funny thing about Hippowdon is that it is literally incapable of doing anything other than give it free SDs if it's Taunted, so... uh... Yeah, I hope this isn't your only Hawlucha check.


It's a sword, it's a shield, and it got nerfed in... sword and shield... ouch! It's Aegislash! Not only was it pretty reliant on mindgames to actually 1v1 Throat Chop variants in the first place, it loses to Spdef Seed Taunt extra hard (116 spdef EVs avoids the 2HKO from standard KS Toxic Shadow Ball at +1 while only really losing out on Hawlucha v Hawlucha speed ties), unless you're a physically attacking Aegislash which loses to Def Seed Taunt sets in the exact same way. Heck, if it's too chipped, it loses to Taunt on even Def Seed sets anyways. Yikers. Especially considering this is how a lot of teams deal with it right now.


It Future Sights, it Teleports, and most importantly fits on Offense, it's Slowking! Being one of the few defensive checks able to reliably OHKO and fit on non balance teams, it should seem pretty sturdy, right? It's actually probably the most reliable on the list bar Brave Bird Skarmory, but still has to keep above 77% lest a cheeky high roll from Acrobatics or Throat Chop take it out. Luckily that's easy to do thanks to Regenerator but good luck if it's your banded Urshifu-R check because then you probably have to catch the U-turn and get brought down to half over and over.


Honestly just a worse check than Slowking, needing to stay above 90% to be a worthwhile check. Yikes. EDIT: unless you're max def which honestly doesn't sound that great as the speed tier is the big thing that separates bulky sets from Slowking and Reuniclus, aside from hazards and fog ofc


A better check than Mew but a worse check than Slowking due to Regenerator Reuniclus sets just being bad.


So here's the deal, if you're physdef Brave Bird Skarm you're about the safest you can hope to be. And fortunately, Body Press is kinda doo doo rn on account of being incapable of touching last mon Substitute Spectrier. If you're not Brave Bird then just pray it's not taunt because if it is you autolose. It gets the Hawlucha Check Stamp of Approval.

Choice Band
Unfortunately, Scizor's ability to check Def Seed Lucha is entirely dependent on somehow managing to get Hawlucha down to half while it's ripping your team a new rear end, so uh good luck with that. Not a great check to begin with tbh.


See Scizor.

As you can see, thanks to recently developed lucha tech (you can blame me for the spdef seed taunt one), our reliable priority and defensive checks consist of Skarmory and Slowking, which both only need less than half chip to be beaten. In terms of offensive checks our list consists of basically Focus Sash Alakazam, and lord help you if you need it to check another sweeper too. If someone starts running say Substitute Hawlucha sets then both Alakazam and the priority mons just lose there and then and Aegi still has to play mindgames as if Hawlucha subs on a KS then it can SD again and keep playing 50/50s until it hits Bladeislash gold or SDs to the point that Acrobatics kills anyways even after KS drops. Slowking also has a rough time of it as well if it's Spdef Seed Hawlucha as Future Sight is blocked by Substitute and 116 Spdef Hawlucha at +1's sub is not always broken by Scald. And before anyone says CC takes away the def boosts, High Jump Kick is more than usable for this very reason (and it makes the Skarmory MU a little less rough).

EDIT: lmao I totally forgot about malt somehow, probably because max physdef only needs 7% more chip to just be a repeat of Slowking but with no regenerator. It also takes rocks because it can't run boots and it's also needed for a bunch of other stuff too so that's probably not even that much more difficult.

 

[N_Mareanie]

Shifts!

OU --> UUBL
OU --> UU

 

[N_Mareanie]

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...-lucha-hawlucha-suspect.3674079/#post-8673039

New Suspect!

 

[N_Mareanie]

Shifts!

UUBL --> OU
UU --> OU

OU --> UU

 

[N_Mareanie]

These two leaving the tier has greatly improved overall competitiveness of the tier, as well as overall less restriction in teambuilding. I personally didn't have any issues with Spectrier yet, though I will admit having to prepare for both Sub + Wisp + Disable and NP Ghost-Z sets proved challenging lately, as a lot of Dark-types just get nuked by +2 Shadow Ball after some chip. Hawlucha basically didn't have any true counters, so getting that out of the way is great to make the tier overall way more competitive.

-----

I'd like to focus a bit on the two new drops in the tier, Melmetal and Regieleki.

After months of speculation, Melmetal dropped at a time when it was actually getting better in National Dex OU. Not that it matters, though this might lead to it getting stolen again next month.

Anyways, Melmetal has been interesting so far. I've been using three sets the most so far, all of which have proven to be quite good.

Spoiler

Melmetal @ Choice Band
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 96 HP / 252 Atk / 160 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Double Iron Bash
- Thunder Punch
- Earthquake
- Superpower

Choice Band packs immense breaking power, being able to flat out 2HKO max HP Moltres (252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Moltres: 228-268 (59.3 - 69.7%) -- approx. 2HKO). You also have enough coverage to pretty much hit the entire tier for at least neutral damage, which is pretty great. I've heard people have concerns with Melmetal being able to dish out such damage, but I personally believe it's fine for the tier at the moment. It's pretty prediction reliant, as using DIB on an incoming Rotom-H or Rotom-W sucks away a lot of momentum. Making the wrong prediction can lead to the opponent taking control of the situation and punishing the Melmetal user. Not to mention Rocky Helmet users such as Skarmory, Hippowdon and Buzzwole (I've even been using Helmet Rotom-W for a bit, which is pretty cool. Alomomola is also not too shabby due to Regenerator + Wish keeping it healthy) heavily discourage DIB spam. Flame Body Moltres is also not great for Melmetal. However, of course, should the Melmetal be played perfectly and get every prediction right, it can be a huge force to be reckoned with.

Spoiler

Melmetal @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 96 HP / 252 Def / 160 Spe
Impish Nature
- Double Iron Bash
- Body Press
- Substitute
- Acid Armor

The second set I tried out was the Acid Armor + Body Press set. It's fine, I just personally really dislike the coverage I can run on this. Earthquake > Substitute might be better on this set, but you still get stone walled by stuff like Moltres. Low speed tier and no non-passive recovery sucks for a 'sweeper' set is just something I personally really dislike about this Melmetal set. However, I will say that it greatly abuses some Steels we have, especially non-Whirlwind Skarmory and Jirachi. It also eats physical hits for breakfast.

Spoiler

Melmetal @ Protective Pads
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 96 HP / 252 Atk / 160 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Double Iron Bash
- Earthquake
- Thunder Punch
- Toxic

This set I would argue is the best set, as most things that hinder CB Melmetal doesn't apply at all for this set. Protective Pads allows you to ignore Rocky Helmet chip, and allows you to not trigger Moltres' Flame Body. You trade your insane damage output from Band for more longevity, and considering Melmetal is pretty strong even without a Choice Band, it's not a huge deal. Toxic is on this set as that bullies pretty much every 'mon that would want to come in on Melmetal (Rotom-H, Rotom-W, Buzzwole, Hippowdon), which is pretty amazing.

I also just want to note that these spreads is not the one-and-only Melmetal spread you should be using. I honestly find Melmetal's EV distribution to be relatively flexible, as for example, this set outspeeds 0 Speed Celesteela, but you could easily change it to something that fits your liking better.

Man, this 'mon is just disappointing. Having absolutely no coverage, it just gets outclassed by better Electric-pivots that are fast (Manectric-Mega & Zeraora), as they at least have moves to bully the Ground-types in the tier.

All these 'mons stone-wall Regieleki just because of sheer typing (or ability, in Zeraora's case). And this is only B rank and higher. Even in the lower rankings, Pokémon like Seismitoad, Gligar and Quagsire, despite being a lot less relevant, take on Regieleki like no other. And sadly, outside of fast pivotter without coverage, Regieleki really doesn't do much. Without Choice Specs equipped, breaking through bulkier resists becomes a big challenge too, such as Amoonguss. Screens sets are fine due to high speed + Explosion, but Grimmsnarl is still better in my personal opinion, due to better bulk + Prankster Taunt & Screens.
Considering every team pretty much had to have an Electric-immune to begin with, I don't see Regieleki making huge waves in the tier sadly.

-----

Now onto something that's been kind of on my mind lately. Just a note in advance, I'm writing this entirely on my own behalf and not on behalf of the council, though some council members do share the same sentiment regarding this topic.

Anyways, Slowking has been kind of ridiculous lately. Not Slowking itself, but the already beaten to death discussion about Future Sight + Teleport. Simply put, Future Sight allows so many breakers to have such a better matchup vs such a large roster of their defensive counterplay. Teleport, of course, being -6 priority and thus always going last, gives a pretty much free switch to said breakers, making it extremely easy to abuse said strategy for whatever breaker is coming in. Added onto this, Slowking having great bulk + Regenerator means it's able to pull this off multiple times throughout a match, often times without struggle. This can make it very difficult to prepare for, and makes it extremely hard to stick to standard defensive counterplay in the tier. I'll provide some examples of the best abusers of FuturePort in the tier.

Abusers & Explanation

Urshifu-Rapid-Strike

Spoiler

Urshifu-Rapid-Strike @ Choice Band
Ability: Unseen Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Surging Strikes
- Ice Punch
- U-turn

Often times when preparing for Urshifu-RS, you'll reach for something along the lines of Amoonguss, Buzzwole, Skarmory or Mega Altaria. This often times is enough, as all of these have a solid typing that can even switch in on coverage moves due to the solid bulk. However, when you factor in Future Sight damage, literally all of these checks get straight up 2HKO'd by Urshifu-RS. Here a few calcs as proof:

calcs

Altaria-Mega

252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Surging Strikes (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 120+ Def Altaria-Mega on a critical hit: 102-123 (28.8 - 34.7%) -- approx. 2.7% chance to 3HKO
+
0 SpA Slowking Future Sight vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Altaria: 124-147 (35 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Surging Strikes (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 120+ Def Altaria-Mega on a critical hit: 102-123 (28.8 - 34.7%) -- approx. 2.7% chance to 3HKO


Minimum amount of damage done here is 91%, which is still a KO with rocks up.

---

Skarmory

252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Surging Strikes (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory on a critical hit: 162-192 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- approx. 98% chance to 2HKO
+
0 SpA Slowking Future Sight vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 86-102 (25.7 - 30.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

---

252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Surging Strikes (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss on a critical hit: 126-150 (29.2 - 34.8%) -- approx. 100% chance to 4HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+
0 SpA Slowking Future Sight vs. 248 HP / 92 SpD Amoonguss: 278-330 (64.5 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

---

0 SpA Slowking Future Sight vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Buzzwole: 428-506 (102.3 - 121%) -- guaranteed OHKO

lmao

Terrakion & Lycanroc-Dusk

Spoiler

Terrakion @ Choice Band
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Toxic

Lycanroc-Dusk @ Choice Band
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- Accelerock

Dumping these two together cause they share a good amount of the same checks and counters. Again, Choice Band Terrakion & Lycanroc-Dusk are able to pretty much plough through most defensive 'mons if Future Sight is added into the equation. As shown, Buzzwole gets OHKO'd by Future Sight itself without needing prior chip whatsoever, Hippowdon gets 2HKO'd by Close Combat + Future Sight from both, Amoonguss gets fucked by Future Sight as well, Skarmory takes the extra chip needed for a 2HKO.

Melmetal

Spoiler

Melmetal @ Choice Band
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 96 HP / 252 Atk / 160 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Double Iron Bash
- Thunder Punch
- Earthquake
- Superpower

While only dropping into the tier a few days ago, I've found it to be one of the best Future Sight abusers we have and I believe is the sole reason Melmetal could be considered broken, though I think that would be immature and ignoring the real problem at hand. Pretty much, DIB + Future Sight spam is ridiculous. Rotom-H and Rotom-W get chipped way faster than they should, Buzzwole / Hippowdon / Moltres can barely even pivot in any more. It's pretty ridiculous what Slowking allows Melmetal to do and how far it pushes the Band set.

Now, realistically, pretty much every breaker in the tier benefits from Future Sight support. Weavile loves Buzzwole just getting straight OHKO'd, Zeraora appreciates Amoonguss, Hippowdon and Buzzwole having a way harder time checking it etc.

There are way to get around this. Solid Future Sight resists such as Aegislash, opposing Slowking and Jirachi can soak up most hits due to their good Special Defense. Pursuit users such as Weavile and Krookodile can threaten weakened Slowking, though that situation will often not be a common one.

Slowking is also just generally a great glue for many teams. It's a great check to Pokémon like Urshifu-RS, Keldeo, Moltres and Victini. However, this is not a good reason to not look into Slowking further, as with this mindset we'd end up with a broken-checking-broken metagame, which is not healthy.

-----

The tier just went through some good amount of tier changes, so don't expect any action on some Pokémon anytime soon. If it's up to me, we'll likely just wait 'till the Tier Shift on January 1st for any tiering action to be taken. That's also the time we'll finally be able to start the 3 month cycle of tiering, which will allow the tier to finally settle down a lot better and comfortably.

Have a nice evening and a Merry Christmas to everyone in a few days!

 

[Cold Apple Soda]

I'll give my brief thoughts about the 2 new drops since I've played with them enough.


GF got this mf down bad with absolutely 0 coverage to even touch ground types/elec immunes. This puts it in a position where it's generally outclassed by any other viable electric type in the tier. There's not much else that needs to be said about this mon tbf, especially since Mareanie summed it up pretty well above (ily). Though, the animation it has in battle is adorable so that gives it an edge.


Melm on the other hand is pretty good. Band Sets break extremely well, but are fairly prediction reliant due to the abundance of sturdy steel resist in the tier, and most of those steel resist (, and respectively) are quite easy to pair with mons to cover Melms coverage ( + for example). This does often force it into 50/50s, but it awards you greatly if you're able to get them down. If you lose the 50/50s you're more often than not just draining momentum, putting yourself in really shitty positions because of how easy band Melm is to take advantage of at times. Other issues Melm has is obvious speed and a pretty dogshit spdef stat which leaves it in a fairly questionable spot vs more offensive squads at times.

With those main downsides stated I wanted to briefly move into Melm teammates. Since I don't find it too terribly hard to support Melm with a reliable core since all of Melm's upsides are really good upsides.

Melm Teammates

+ +
These two + Band Melm synergize pretty well with each other. Moltres + Slowking form a really solid defensive backbone while also doubling as a momentum core with Teleport + U-Turn. They are capable of pivoting throughout a match which gives Melm a ton of opportunities to come in and click buttons. Future Sight here is insanely strong for the fact it alleviates some of the stress 50/50s can cause, such as dealing with Rotom-Wash/Heat, Moltres (after some chip), Slowking (Thunder Punch) and Alo. Melm turns this "bulky asf but hurts nothing" core into some demonic shit. Just pack a elec immune cause u def need one on this, my personal favorite was Rhyperior since it gives you a rocker that isn't passive, while also giving you a strong Rotom-H answer.

+ / /
All 3 of these are extremely solid Melmetal partners. They prevent mons like Zeraora, Rotom-Heat and M-Mane from gaining free momentum and provides really solid hazard support. Gligar in particular is a really solid partner since it gives you an elec immune, solid terrak answer and ground immune in one slot + momentum support with U-Turn. These traits also make Gligar + Slowking a fairly solid core when paired with Melm because you're capable of handling each others weaknesses well enough. People may hate on Gligar, but he's useful at times.

 

[Niadev]

Having played with Melmetal a bit, I can definitively say that it's good but absolutely not broken (in this meta anyways). Melmetal is pretty easy to exploit for most teams, as even if it kills something (and that's an *if*) something else will come in and either kill Melmetal or something else. It can't get in very easily due to it's typing not offering it much in the way of useful resistances (most of what Steel resists are special and/or are used with mons that usually have a way to hit Melmetal SE anyways), much like Hoopa-U, and is entirely dependent on either coming in on passive mons or being brought in with pivoting support, and non Protective Pads sets are huge Helmet/Flame Body fodder. That being said it's not as easily trapped, and offers some defensive utillity in checking Staraptor so it's not a one to one comparison with Hoopa-U. Speaking of which, Protective Pads definitely feels like its best set, being strong enough that often times I ended up thinking of it as my wallbreaker despite not having a Life Orb or Choice Band, and Toxicing fat stuff like Hippowdon and Swampert also helps with breaking down fat stuff.


Garbage, use Alolachu instead. Moving on...

Ok so it hasn't been super long since lucha got banned but another thing appears to have reared its head, and that is (somewhat unsurprisingly) Victini.


The last time it was here, the busted set was band and Z Celebrate was meh. Without Latias here, it's the other way around (ok band isn't meh, it's still really strong but not to a broken degree). I'll be the first to say that it's other sets, such as Band, Specs, Scarf, EBelt and boots pivot are good but not broken (band is easily pursuit trapped, Specs lacks the raw power of band despite being my personal favourite and can still be trapped after rocks, etc.), but Z Celebrate is a little demonic. And by a little, I mean very.

From my attempts to build for it the counterplay appears to be pray for that sweet Body Slam 30% chance to para with MAlt, Perish Song MAlt, Whirlwind SpDef Mandibuzz and AV Galar Slowking (Pory2 fails to do much of anything back and can't phaze it and its use post Spectrier meta has diminished somewhat though it is probably still pretty decent), none of which are ideal (the only non passive mon here is MAlt and even then it's with an otherwise suboptimal set or praying for Hax). Kanto Slowking would be alright if a) running toxic didn't mean ditching Scald or one of the two components of Futureport, which is what makes it so insanely good, and b) if it could actually kill it without forcing you to either make repeated god tier switches against Victini after the fact or sack most of your team should the former fail. Intimidate somewhat weakens Stored Power but now it's just 100 BP at +1 instead of 120 BP at +1, and Searing already hits like a truck.

Ah yes, that's the other thing - it's alright to just eat its attacks as a 2HKO, but actually killing it is an entirely different ordeal, thanks to the defense buffs Z Celebrate provides. Thanks to those, the vast majority of defensive checks fail to actually deal with it aside from slightly annoying it, with the exception of phazers. For instance, Slowking can only barely do a third with Scald reliably (a super effective STAB move from a mon with 100 spa, which while uninvested is usually doing over half to most SEs), which is a 2HKO after rocks, sure, but Victini also 2HKOs back with Energy Ball/Thunder, so Victini always wins the MU. Hippowdon needs to be above 90% or SpDef (ew) to always live and whirlwind, and Hippowdon is pretty passive so it doesn't help BO teams at all. Max HP MAlt eats a Stored Power but it has to be near full to live and can't touch it without the aforementioned Perish Song or Body Slam para hax (Earthquake from max attack Adamant MAlt can't even do half). Swampert would be fine if it wasn't vaporised by Energy Ball, which is standard on Z Celebrate.

Unlike Hawlucha behind screens, this thing does have counterplay, but all of that counterplay is hax based or very niche and passive. Man why can't ladder just give us Chansey? Nevermind actually, Chansey would only give us one good counter for Z Celebrate. The rest of the tier would still be shafted and Z Tini would still be broken.

Funny calcs

252+ Atk Altaria-Mega Earthquake vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 144-170 (42.2 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 SpA Victini Stored Power (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Altaria-Mega: 235-277 (66.3 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Slowking Scald vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 116-138 (34 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 SpA Victini Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowking: 226-266 (57.3 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 158-188 (46.3 - 55.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage
+1 252 SpA Victini Stored Power (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 321-378 (76.4 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Victini Searing Shot vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 268-316 (63.8 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Primarina Scald vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 140-168 (41 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 SpA Victini Stored Power (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 216-255 (59.3 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 150-178 (43.9 - 52.1%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Victini Stored Power (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 122-144 (37.7 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 SpA Victini Stored Power (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragonite: 244-288 (75.5 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I also agree that Slowking should be looked at at some point, but I think Victini is the more glaring issue right now. Sucks that an otherwise fine mon is broken by Z moves but that's kind of the story of Z moves, huh.

 

[Master_toxic101]

Should Aegislash be banned from NatDex UU? Let’s go over it’s status in the current UU metagame and what it’s capable of doing and how or how not it is broken or not, I will be breaking down points on how it is able to fit it’s roles well and how I feel on why it should or should not be banned, including the amount of sets they have and overall ranking them. Please take into consideration that your opinion is valid, and free. If you have any recommendations, or suggestions for me, you're allowed to DM if you’d like thx.
So Aegislash, everyone’s favorite sword and shield. After the nerf redux in generation 8(dropping its defense/spdef in shield forme and attack/sp attack in blade forme by 10 and lowering king shield’s attack drop on contact by 1)plus the amount of commonality there is between competition as a ghost type and the meta shift, Aegislash being Ubers the two past gens was dropped to OU, and UUBL, now settling here in UU. Aegislash still despite these traits is very versatile, especially since it dropped down two tiers. Aegislash is just a really awesome pokemon with a great ghost/steel typing. It allows it to be active offensively and defensively due to this and it has 3 useful immunities(Normal, Fighting, and Poison). Aegislash has the potential to be special as a breaker with Spell Tag or Specs or physical with Band and SD Z. It also functions with Sub+Toxic. Personally I do believe the best set is SubToxic with defense investment. I feel the use of specs is something that helps Aegislash in immediate power but the flaw is the fact that you can't keep switching forms, you aren’t setting up, and you are susceptible to pursuit, due to switching forms. With Sub+Toxic you have the ability to set a sub up in front of mons you beat or wall and toxic switch-ins to death while using the king's shield. This can be nice if they are using contact moves since you do drop their attack stat. SD Z is also great if you want an offensive cleaner/breaker. Z helps you demolish Skarmory, SpDef Scizor, and Hippowdon after a boost of SD. Aegislash really appreciates the versatility of having more than one viable set between both of it’s offenses and defenses. It also is hard to directly prepare for immediately with it’s stab combination ,defensive utility, and or coverage in CC. Aegislash is not something that easily get’s walled. The best way I’ve seen to deal with it is Mandibuzz, or Buzzwhole(but it has to be eq) to deal with SD. Scizor is not very viable of an option because it can’t really switch in and deal with any of Aegi's sets defensively. Also Pursuit is alternative but in reality if it were a king shield set with cc, pursuit trapping is useless, as Aegislash stays in, in it’s defensive form and drops the opponent’s attack. Offensive mons are there but generally can’t switch in and have to be aware of it’s priority Shadow Sneak(mainly+2, especially if chipped by SR) It is important to realize that unless you have an outright boosted breaker(band specs)it is 90% of the time impossible to completely destroy aegislash in one, unless you’re trying to wear it down which is not doing that simply. Aegislash also has a great presence in OU which could make it where being UU is a lot of and understatement in what it can do in the higher tier, but that’s for another discussion.




Now with these great traits Aegislash has it’s own drawbacks. Mainly low speed, and the pursuit vulnerability in the blade forme. As a specs mon it faces comp with Hoopa and it does have no recovery when using the Sub+Toxic sets. Luckily though with Mega Venusaur gone it doesen’t feel pressure from it’s presence anymore. Aegislash is also invalidated by Mandibuzz and Umbreon to an extent(however SD CC will annihilate Umbreon if it switches in to deal with it). Overall Aegislash isn’t a potent enough sweeper to destroy everything in it’s way and there are some pokemon that can revenge kill it easily. (Scarf Tini always lives +2 Adamant sneak w/out rocks up Calc: +2 252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Victini: 306-360 (75.7 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO and Hoopa-U bypasses it’s King Shield/Sub and annihilates it in one while still ignoring king’s shields attack drop.) This makes it not broken in an aspect because it is either to be defensively countered or offensively countered respectively, and can’t outright sweep. There are obviously plays you need to make to ensure this but most of the time you should have the tools to protect yourself from it. Also Aegislash is facing a knock meta + it’s low speed stat hindering its ability to face well in the meta. Either way, take advantage of Aegi by keeping Mandi at full health or having an offensive RK. Position yourself to not allow Aegi to come in and get a free substitute either and take advantage of it’s low speed.



Overall, however even though I believe Aegislash has some glaring weaknesses I think with the right support and movepool it is able to work through them fine. Also keeping in mind it was Ubers the past two gens is crazy that it is down here. I think that Aegislash while isn’t super broken is still really good. As mentioned before Victini is able to beat it with Scarfed V-create but would die to +2 sneak if rocks were up +2 252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Victini: 306-360 (75.7 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock. Hoopa also could drop two +2 Shadow Sneak at a small chance after rocks still worth nothing though +2 252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 229-271 (76 - 90%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock. If you do go LO you would guarantee the kill but usually isn’t worth it when compared to Z. A notable thing about Aegislash is it is able to counter dark moves in an interesting way. It can use KS and stay in it’s shield form to counter pursuit and use Z-Move to weaken Knock Off’s damage output. It also defensively mainly at the most struggles with Manidbuzz and potentially Moltres. Both do give momentum(mainly Mandibuzz) and can be poisoned with and hindered by (Sub+Toxic). Not to mention none ohko, especially if Aegislash is running bulk to sever their damage output. And then look at it this way if Aegislash isn’t a sweeper it’s a breaker, if not a breaker, a toxic staller. Aegislash is always potent in a game and that’s why it’s ranked S or S-. Tbf Hoopa and Victini could still be holding it back but those are also pokemon that are potentially banworthy too, and definitely if that’s the case Aegislash would have not many offensive counters to it. I feel Aegislash isn’t banworthy because of being directly outright broken, but because of being overbearing and having methods to counter its weaknesses. And even still no pokemon can single-handedly beat things just alone, just with the right support there are ways to shut down pursuit or either get it in safely to annoy certain defensive cores with Sub+Toxic or set up something like screens and hazards for it’s SD Z set breaking/sweeping potential. All-in-all I see it’s weaknesses not enough to prove it unban worthy. I also think due to its presence in OU with the rise of Mega Lati, Mega Medicham, Blissey, and having priority shadow sneak against Spectrier is valuable as well as having a role offensively/defensively retrospectively. Aegislash is a very important and superior mon and the fact that it’s sitting in UU as one of the top 2 or 3 best mons is quite dissenting to its potential. Alas Aegislash should be banned due to offensive/defensive pressure and the ability to use support for it’s checks(screens and hazards as an SD breaker) or using counters to pursuit mons and allowing pivots for it to get it in safely. Scarf Victini can do exactly this as it pressures both Weavile and Scarfed Krook with just itself. Aegislash while again isn’t directly broken is pressuring and overbearing for the tier imo. And I feel checks either give other partners too much momentum or aren’t strong enough to take it down and can get chipped by either hazards or toxic. I also believe Victini or even Hoopa make strong partners with it. Feel free to leave your opinions on it’s status. Vote “Ban” or “DNB” or feel free to reside in the middle. With that being said keep on and stay strong with the meta!

 

[N_Mareanie]

Shifts!

 

[Cold Apple Soda]

4:11 AM and I am no sleeping in my bed, you love to fuckin see it. Though, I've really been fuckin with Mew lately on some teams and wanted to make a rather quick post about why I personally think it's really strong currently.

Sets & Strengths

Mewnium-Z

Set

Mew @ Mewnium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Soft-Boiled

or


Mew @ Mewnium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic
- Fire Blast
- Rock Polish

This set looks to accomplish two things, either to wallbreak effectively or to find a way to sweep if you're going the HO route with NP + Rock Polish. Mew does both of those things very well. Psychic coupled with Genesis Supernova is in all sense of the word a "nuke". You pretty much will delete anything that isn't a sturdy resist or an immune, and afterwards will set up Psychic Terrain to boost your regular Psychic in power which is always appreciated. Fire Blast is capable of hitting mons like Scizor, Celesteela, Jirachi and Aegislash for a considerable amount of damage. Fire Blast also deals a considerable amount of damage to Hoopa, Mandibuzz and Krookodile (at +2) which are both immune to Genesis Supernova, though Mandibuzz and Hoopa don't take an insane amount so support from your teammates is definitely required there. Flamethrower is slashed just in case you want a more consistent alternative to Fire Blast. Dazzling Gleam can also be used over Fire coverage if you really want to take care of the Dark types that would otherwise wall you, but this set genuinely misses out on steel type coverage and you're forced to use your Z just to take care of them and is generally inferior to Flamethrower/Fire Blast. Soft-Boiled is used to give Mew as many set up opportunities as possible so it can break multiple times throughout a match, this option is generally far better when used with a Timid Nature and fits far better on Balance and BO archetypes vs HO. Alternatively, you can run Rock Polish last slot to sweep lategame. However, this set works better with a Modest nature and should only be used on Screens HO so it can double dance safely in a match.

Mew has other factors that allows this set to be really scary. Base 100 speed places you in a very reliable speed tier that lets you outpace numerous threats in the tier such as Urshifu-S, Tapu Bulu and Scizor while also letting you scare out and set up vs plenty of walls in the tier. The bulk is also fairly nice as it means you're capable of setting up vs most things that are fairly passive such as Rotom forms, Moltres and Buzzwole.

The presence of Slowking is definitely a huge downside when it comes to running this set, but unless they're toxic>scald they can't exactly do much to you and are left to be set up fodder as after 2 Nasty Plots you're capable of taking out Slowking with Genesis Supernova after relatively little chip.

+4 252 SpA Mew Genesis Supernova vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowking: 346-408 (87.8 - 103.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

Not only is the presence of Slowking really annoying but also is the presence of Victini, Mandibuzz, Weavile and Krookodile. But, most of these with some team support are breakable due to them all having their fair share of issues.

Calcs

+2 252 SpA Mew Genesis Supernova vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowking: 231-272 (58.6 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+4 252 SpA Mew Genesis Supernova vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowking: 346-408 (87.8 - 103.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Mew Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Krookodile: 267-315 (80.6 - 95.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Mew Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 159-188 (52.8 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Mew Genesis Supernova vs. 248 HP / 44+ SpD Primarina: 388-457 (106.8 - 125.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Mew Psychic vs. 248 HP / 44+ SpD Primarina in Psychic Terrain: 246-291 (67.7 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Mew Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon in Psychic Terrain: 261-307 (61.2 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Mew Genesis Supernova vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon in Psychic Terrain: 535-630 (125.5 - 147.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Mew Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mandibuzz: 216-256 (50.9 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Mew Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 232-274 (77 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Hyper Offense Lead

Set

Mew @ Mental Herb
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Explosion

Mew is one of the best, if not the best, lead in the tier when it comes to hyper offense. Base 100 speed coupled with having both hazards + taunt allows it to consistently get up rocks and a layer of spikes while also deterring the opponent from setting up their own hazards or trying to counter lead with a defogger. Explosion allows you to safely get in your abusers after the hazards are set and chips the opponent to allow you abusers to easily get a free kill after set up. Mental Herb allows Mew to get past taunt and encore to set up hazards or taunt the opposition. The set is fairly simple but it gets the job done.

This set has other options such as running Focus Sash and running max attack over max hp. This alternative set allows lets you get the most out of explosions chip damage to give your sweepers an easier free kill. The lack of mental herb is a L and not being encored and taunted is something that is missed ngl.

There's other sets that Mew can use such as Swords Dance (DD is ass), Stallbreaker variants and defensive rock variants and those are all definitely really viable. But, this post is already long as shit :skull:

 

[Cold Apple Soda]

Week 1 National Dex UU WC

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Altaria            |    8 |  57.14% |  50.00% |
| 2    | Swampert           |    7 |  50.00% |  71.43% |
| 3    | Weavile            |    6 |  42.86% |  66.67% |
| 4    | Moltres            |    5 |  35.71% |  60.00% |
| 4    | Slowking           |    5 |  35.71% |  20.00% |
| 6    | Scizor             |    4 |  28.57% |  75.00% |
| 6    | Keldeo             |    4 |  28.57% |  50.00% |
| 8    | Skarmory           |    3 |  21.43% |  66.67% |
| 8    | Amoonguss          |    3 |  21.43% |  66.67% |
| 8    | Manectric          |    3 |  21.43% |  66.67% |
| 8    | Melmetal           |    3 |  21.43% |  33.33% |
| 8    | Zapdos-Galar       |    3 |  21.43% |  33.33% |
| 8    | Krookodile         |    3 |  21.43% |  33.33% |
| 8    | Celesteela         |    3 |  21.43% |   0.00% |
| 15   | Mew                |    2 |  14.29% | 100.00% |
| 15   | Hoopa-Unbound      |    2 |  14.29% |  50.00% |
| 15   | Hippowdon          |    2 |  14.29% |   0.00% |
| 18   | Jirachi            |    1 |   7.14% | 100.00% |
| 18   | Infernape          |    1 |   7.14% | 100.00% |
| 18   | Nihilego           |    1 |   7.14% | 100.00% |
| 18   | Zeraora            |    1 |   7.14% | 100.00% |
| 18   | Porygon-Z          |    1 |   7.14% | 100.00% |
| 18   | Primarina          |    1 |   7.14% | 100.00% |
| 18   | Dragonite          |    1 |   7.14% | 100.00% |
| 18   | Gastrodon          |    1 |   7.14% | 100.00% |
| 18   | Urshifu-*          |    1 |   7.14% |   0.00% |
| 18   | Zarude             |    1 |   7.14% |   0.00% |
| 18   | Deoxys-Defense     |    1 |   7.14% |   0.00% |
| 18   | Pyukumuku          |    1 |   7.14% |   0.00% |
| 18   | Slowbro-Galar      |    1 |   7.14% |   0.00% |
| 18   | Rotom-Wash         |    1 |   7.14% |   0.00% |
| 18   | Nidoking           |    1 |   7.14% |   0.00% |
| 18   | Dracozolt          |    1 |   7.14% |   0.00% |
| 18   | Slowking-Galar     |    1 |   7.14% |   0.00% |
| 18   | Rotom-Heat         |    1 |   7.14% |   0.00% |

Week 1 is wrapped tf up and the usage stats are in for UU. Figured I'd post my thoughts about it.

Malt

This came at #1 most used and has a respectable 50% winrate which is pretty good. M-Altaria in short just offers a shitload in a single slot. Typing + Bulk allows it to defensively answer tons of top threats such as Urshifu-R, Keldeo and Krookodile. This trait also makes M-Altaria one of the most consistent set up sweepers in the tier with Dragon Dance and is extremely splashable on a multitude of team builds. Since this is my favorite mon of all time I cosign the usage, and tbh I honestly expect to see Malt in the top 5 in most of these weeks going forward due to how good it is.

Swampert

Swampert recently has proven to be probably the best Stealth Rock setter in the tier due to a multitude of reasonings. Flip Turn allows it to quite easily pivot in a teammate and not be a complete momentum drain for more aggressive builds. This also somewhat covers up one of Pert's biggest downsides which is how passive it can be at times. The typing also allows it to have a really solid MU vs Volt Switchers in the tier, as well as have a solid MU vs most defoggers.

Weavile

Banded Weavile is a fucking menace and a half I'll tell you that. Triple Axel + Knock/Pursuit mind games are annoying to deal with in game and the lack of good defensive answers leaves many teams in a shaky position at times. Most teams are hard stuck looking for solid defensive counterplay, with the best being Buzzwole as a hard answer and Scizor being the best soft answer defensively. Not even surprised to see it in top 3 tbh tbh.

 

[Batzi]

So after a bad start in Week 1 and 2 of WC, had good wins in Week 3 and Semis. I thought I'd share my thoughts on a certain banworthy Pokemon.

I think this one is the most overlooked atm because you have other threats such as Hoopa who keep it in check. But once (if) Hoopa goes I can see this mon being a HUGE issue.

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 208 HP / 252 SpA / 48 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- King's Shield
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball

This is the set I find the most concerning. I look through the tier and realise how difficult this set is to check. Sp.Def Mega Altaria needs Heal Bell+Flamethrower to 1v1 this and Mega Altaria shouldn't ever switchin initially due to the threat of a potential steel move from another set. Weavile seems like its an ok check until you realise that Kings Shield scouts for if it is using Pursuit or Knock and if it uses Pursuit you can easily stay in and click Toxic. Here is a calc below to show that:
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 96-114 (29.6 - 35.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
-2 252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 68-84 (20.9 - 25.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
At -2 Aegi has a very good chance to sub in front of Weavile while crippling it with Toxic every turn, so Weavile essentially has to switch. On the turn before meaning if it got the pursuit chip, it would be toxic'd. Even if there is Heal Bell support Weavile has taken chip from the toxic and potentially rocks and/or spikes. The best Pokemon to handle this is Hoopa because of Hyperspace Fury going through tect but if it were banned as mentioned above, I can see this thing being even more harder to beat. Another mon who can beat it 1v1 is Bisharp who is pretty solid atm on HO. Heal Bell Umbreon can PP stall too as well as Bulky DNite doing decent vs it. Not going to showcase the Ghostium or specs sets because they are a lot less problematic than this.

Here are two replays of Aegislash being Aegislash:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexuu-1291173371-n91mx2yk4g73pwsw46e158q23uew8vbpw - Me getting smoked by Aegislash because I wasn't well prepared for it.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexuu-1295650759-hjp6r0mvlhnkqxf99guy6utd1790zhhpw - Me getting revenge on the world with my own Aegislash.

So yeah in summary this thing needs to go.

 

[Mirbro]

As it did Cold Apple Soda for week 1 I would like to share with you stats of both weeks 2 and 3. At the end of the NDWC I will share the accumulated stats.

Week 2

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Altaria            |    7 |  43.75% |  57.14% |
| 1    | Slowking           |    7 |  43.75% |  42.86% |
| 3    | Amoonguss          |    5 |  31.25% |  60.00% |
| 3    | Weavile            |    5 |  31.25% |  40.00% |
| 5    | Jirachi            |    4 |  25.00% |  75.00% |
| 5    | Hippowdon          |    4 |  25.00% |  75.00% |
| 5    | Zeraora            |    4 |  25.00% |  50.00% |
| 5    | Melmetal           |    4 |  25.00% |  50.00% |
| 5    | Skarmory           |    4 |  25.00% |  50.00% |
| 10   | Zapdos-Galar       |    3 |  18.75% | 100.00% |
| 10   | Rotom-Heat         |    3 |  18.75% |  66.67% |
| 10   | Krookodile         |    3 |  18.75% |  66.67% |
| 10   | Urshifu-*          |    3 |  18.75% |  33.33% |
| 10   | Gligar             |    3 |  18.75% |  33.33% |
| 15   | Aegislash          |    2 |  12.50% | 100.00% |
| 15   | Swampert           |    2 |  12.50% |  50.00% |
| 15   | Aggron             |    2 |  12.50% |  50.00% |
| 15   | Regieleki          |    2 |  12.50% |  50.00% |
| 15   | Moltres            |    2 |  12.50% |  50.00% |
| 15   | Hoopa-Unbound      |    2 |  12.50% |  50.00% |
| 15   | Keldeo             |    2 |  12.50% |  50.00% |
| 15   | Scizor             |    2 |  12.50% |   0.00% |
| 15   | Manectric          |    2 |  12.50% |   0.00% |
| 24   | Salamence          |    1 |   6.25% | 100.00% |
| 24   | Nihilego           |    1 |   6.25% | 100.00% |
| 24   | Togekiss           |    1 |   6.25% | 100.00% |
| 24   | Ribombee           |    1 |   6.25% | 100.00% |
| 24   | Incineroar         |    1 |   6.25% | 100.00% |
| 24   | Grimmsnarl         |    1 |   6.25% | 100.00% |
| 24   | Slowking-Galar     |    1 |   6.25% | 100.00% |
| 24   | Buzzwole           |    1 |   6.25% |   0.00% |
| 24   | Mew                |    1 |   6.25% |   0.00% |
| 24   | Infernape          |    1 |   6.25% |   0.00% |
| 24   | Slowbro-Galar      |    1 |   6.25% |   0.00% |
| 24   | Magneton           |    1 |   6.25% |   0.00% |
| 24   | Alomomola          |    1 |   6.25% |   0.00% |
| 24   | Staraptor          |    1 |   6.25% |   0.00% |
| 24   | Nidoking           |    1 |   6.25% |   0.00% |
| 24   | Alakazam           |    1 |   6.25% |   0.00% |
| 24   | Chesnaught         |    1 |   6.25% |   0.00% |
| 24   | Absol              |    1 |   6.25% |   0.00% |
| 24   | Mamoswine          |    1 |   6.25% |   0.00% |

Week 3

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Altaria            |    7 |  50.00% |  42.86% |
| 2    | Slowking           |    6 |  42.86% |  66.67% |
| 3    | Skarmory           |    5 |  35.71% |  80.00% |
| 4    | Moltres            |    4 |  28.57% | 100.00% |
| 4    | Amoonguss          |    4 |  28.57% |  50.00% |
| 4    | Zapdos-Galar       |    4 |  28.57% |  50.00% |
| 4    | Swampert           |    4 |  28.57% |  25.00% |
| 8    | Zeraora            |    3 |  21.43% |  66.67% |
| 8    | Jirachi            |    3 |  21.43% |  33.33% |
| 8    | Urshifu-*          |    3 |  21.43% |  33.33% |
| 8    | Nihilego           |    3 |  21.43% |  33.33% |
| 8    | Aegislash          |    3 |  21.43% |  33.33% |
| 8    | Infernape          |    3 |  21.43% |  33.33% |
| 8    | Hippowdon          |    3 |  21.43% |  33.33% |
| 8    | Weavile            |    3 |  21.43% |   0.00% |
| 16   | Krookodile         |    2 |  14.29% | 100.00% |
| 16   | Zarude             |    2 |  14.29% |  50.00% |
| 16   | Scizor             |    2 |  14.29% |  50.00% |
| 16   | Mew                |    2 |  14.29% |   0.00% |
| 20   | Scolipede          |    1 |   7.14% | 100.00% |
| 20   | Melmetal           |    1 |   7.14% | 100.00% |
| 20   | Alomomola          |    1 |   7.14% | 100.00% |
| 20   | Muk-Alola          |    1 |   7.14% | 100.00% |
| 20   | Quagsire           |    1 |   7.14% | 100.00% |
| 20   | Celesteela         |    1 |   7.14% | 100.00% |
| 20   | Diggersby          |    1 |   7.14% | 100.00% |
| 20   | Sableye            |    1 |   7.14% | 100.00% |
| 20   | Sylveon            |    1 |   7.14% | 100.00% |
| 20   | Rotom-Heat         |    1 |   7.14% | 100.00% |
| 20   | Haxorus            |    1 |   7.14% |   0.00% |
| 20   | Glalie             |    1 |   7.14% |   0.00% |
| 20   | Shuckle            |    1 |   7.14% |   0.00% |
| 20   | Bisharp            |    1 |   7.14% |   0.00% |
| 20   | Dracozolt          |    1 |   7.14% |   0.00% |
| 20   | Mandibuzz          |    1 |   7.14% |   0.00% |
| 20   | Crobat             |    1 |   7.14% |   0.00% |
| 20   | Togekiss           |    1 |   7.14% |   0.00% |

Brief comments

It is good to mention the fact that Swampert has decreased a bit in usage and Hippo has increased. We could say that Hippo, Krook and Swampert are the most used rockers of the tier.

is still the most used Pokémon, making sense as it is the best in our viability rankings.

It is important to note that , high in usage, has great viability showing a 100% win rate in week 3 and high enough in the two previous weeks.

and close the top 3 used Pokémon. We need to remember our concerning issues with Slowking as is the main Pokémon on the radar. is also increasing in usage due to the fact that altogether with Moltres is one of the best defoggers and showcases a great physical bulk really greateful in a tier with so many physical wallbreakers.

See you all Pokémaniacs for next weeks

 

[N_Mareanie]

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...galarian-zapdos-suspect.3680001/#post-8785013

Suspect up!