Resource National Dex Viability Rankings [update post #116]

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Ah link issues, sorry

I will get a link to the second team working, the giga impact scarf is obviously not a set. The correct version of that team has the scarf defog kart. It is I guess the second link?

But your right these are just simple test teams, I am not trying to flex or showcase but instead share what I did and with what so we could maybe be more on the same page. That being said, I resonate with your first sentence, altogether Wish Warp feels difficult to run effectively in national dex the way it is currently. But so is suicune, so is nidoking. I just felt the tech I was running was worth a mention when I look at some mons in C rank.

I will post these types of things in meta discussion before hand next time.
 

Jordy

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Hey everyone, we've done a quick mini slate to reflect some changes in the post-Mega Blastoise metagame a little better. I'm filling in for Funbot this time, I could however not tell you why.

Ranking Update
Code:
Rises:
Galarian Darmanitan A+ → S
Hydreigon A- → A
Garchomp A- → A
Hippowdon B- → A-

Drops:
Tyranitar A- → B+
Mew A- → B+
Mega Medicham B+ → B
Melmetal B → B-
Grimmsnarl B → B-
Volcanion B- → C
Dracozolt C → UR
I'll talk about some changes below.

:darmanitan-galar:
Now that Mega Blastoise's banned, punishing Galarian Darmanitan for locking into Icicle Crash has become even harder than it already was. On top of that, Choice Scarf Galarian Darmanitan's easier to use than ever, as its Speed tier is much more affordable now. Galarian Darmanitan's a truly terrifying threat and has a lot of things going for it right now.

:hippowdon:
Hippowdon's been underexplored for a while, but people have finally started recognize its capabilities as a check to Pokemon like Mega Metagross, Mega Tyranitar, and Bisharp, resulting in this huge rise.
 
Here are some calcs:
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 12 Def Tangrowth: 313-370 (77.4 - 91.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Aegislash-Shield: 143-168 (54.7 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 364-430 (94.3 - 111.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 652-768 (168.9 - 198.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 248 HP / 96+ Def Slowbro: 294-346 (74.8 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Clefable: 493-582 (125.1 - 147.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 248 HP / 16 Def Tapu Fini: 336-396 (97.9 - 115.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
Posting a large wall of calcs is more or less useless - first of all, stuff often works out better in theory than in practice. In order to start breaking effectively, Tyrantrum needs an open window to start killing shit - which it will never get, because so many mons (Mega-gross, G-darm, Garchomp, Hydreigon, Gliscor, etc.) can just come in on a slow u-turn or whatever and then just kill it. Secondly, you haven't provided a complete sample set, meaning that the calcs you've provided are even more pointless than they were in the first place. I would actually have taken this nom with more than a pinch of salt if you had provided any evidence that Tyrantrum actually ends up being more than a sac, i.e. two or three replays.

TL;DR - Tyrantrum bad, don't use it, please make better noms so as to prove me otherwise
 
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:Gyarados:+:Gyarados-Mega:
B- -> B+
I’m pretty surprised that Mega/Gyarados are this low on the viability rankings.
With Mega Metagross, Galarian Darmanitan, and Ash Greninja on the radar, Mega/Gyarados are a decent check to all of them. Its Water/Dark typing resists all their STABs, Intimidate can help alleviate checking Darm and Gross, and it can either attack them directly or set up on them, depending on the given scenario. And yes this is shilling my post on the discussion thread
:Tornadus-Therian:
A+ -> S
Tornadus-T is by far the best Defogger, and what greater need for a Defogger when the new S Ranked Pokemon is severally limited by Hazards.
One of Darmanitan-G’s best, but lesser talked about attributes is having enough bulk to take 1 hit, but only at full health. Stealth Rocks also hurt Darmanitan-G as it likes to spam U-Turn and likes switching in and out, but can only do so 5 times if Stealth Rock is up, even less if you add spikes. It also hates Sticky Web as well, since it negates pretty much the only good item it has (CB is viable, but pretty bad, and don’t get me started on Heavy Duty Boots. Tried it and it’s terrible).
Tornadus-T is notable as a defog partner for Darmanitan-G thanks to Regenerator, U-Turn, Knock Off, and a resistance to Fighting.
And that is just in addition to what Tornadus-T was doing before.
 
:clefable: A+ -> A

This struggles a lot with how popular breakers like Megagross, Darm-G, Rotom-Heat, Heatran, and Bisharp are. Not to mention a lot of what it does check is either mostly irrelevant in the current meta(Medicham, Hawlucha) or can be checked better by other Pokemon like Hippowdon (Pokemon like Mega Lopunny and Garchomp for instance)that handle more of the current meta and occupy the same role as Clef as a rocker on Balance. The tier's Defoggers also don't give Clef a break either, as Fini and Torn can cripple it with Taunt/Knock Off and wear it down as a result, while Corv just sits there and PP stalls Stealth Rock.

:Landorus-Therian: A- -> B+/B

Ever since Zygarde left, this has gotten even more overshadowed as a result of Garchomp's return, as Chomp occupies the one niche this had prior to Zygarde's quickban. This is made worse by the fact that Chomp provides usefulness outside of wallbreaking too, being a solid Fire-resist that can switchin at least a couple of times to Heatran and Oven, while also having better speed and overall bulk. Meanwhile Lando's speed is pretty middling, and Intimidate isn't super useful against common stuff like Bisharp and Darm-G, who will still wallop this and use it to gain momentum in the case of Darm. Lando also has to compete with Gliscor, who has also risen to prominence since the Zyg ban for it's own qualities as a capable SD breaker/utility mon who has reliable recovery AND is a reliable Heatran answer. Overall, Lando-T just struggles to do much without being outclassed and therefore just doesn't belong in A-.

:Gyarados-Mega: B- -> B

Definitely NOT B+ material because of how common Fini (Power Whip sucks as coverage) and Phys. Def Tang are, and how slow this tends to be before setting up, but the MegaToise ban does open up a potential slot for this on HO I guess.

:scizor-mega: A- -> A

Darm-G has gotten more popular since the MegaToise ban and Megagross is still pretty popular for obvious reasons, and this is one of the best answers to both, not fearing anything that Mega Metagross typically runs, and threatening Darm out with BP. It also compresses the role of a potential sweeper and a pivot while maintaining offensive presence, something most other checks like Slowbro can struggle with.
 
:Gyarados:+:Gyarados-Mega:
B- -> B+
I’m pretty surprised that Mega/Gyarados are this low on the viability rankings.
With Mega Metagross, Galarian Darmanitan, and Ash Greninja on the radar, Mega/Gyarados are a decent check to all of them. Its Water/Dark typing resists all their STABs, Intimidate can help alleviate checking Darm and Gross, and it can either attack them directly or set up on them, depending on the given scenario. And yes this is shilling my post on the discussion thread
:Tornadus-Therian:
A+ -> S
Tornadus-T is by far the best Defogger, and what greater need for a Defogger when the new S Ranked Pokemon is severally limited by Hazards.
One of Darmanitan-G’s best, but lesser talked about attributes is having enough bulk to take 1 hit, but only at full health. Stealth Rocks also hurt Darmanitan-G as it likes to spam U-Turn and likes switching in and out, but can only do so 5 times if Stealth Rock is up, even less if you add spikes. It also hates Sticky Web as well, since it negates pretty much the only good item it has (CB is viable, but pretty bad, and don’t get me started on Heavy Duty Boots. Tried it and it’s terrible).
Tornadus-T is notable as a defog partner for Darmanitan-G thanks to Regenerator, U-Turn, Knock Off, and a resistance to Fighting.
And that is just in addition to what Tornadus-T was doing before.
I'm going to very much concur with what KirbCena said about Mega Gyarados in his post, and add a couple more things: Mega Gyarados being slower than prominent scarfers such as G-Darm and Kartana even at +1 makes it a very hard sell. While it can somewhat check Darm, it's prone to getting worn down really easily thanks to no form of recovery and being rocks weak on the initial switch in. That's also not mentioning that it has to compete for a mega slot with Mega Metagross, Mega Lopunny, and Mega Scizor, all of which are far more consistent and splashable than Gyara is. While it could have a spot on HO, I just don't think that the current metagame is kind enough to it to the point that it could rise a rank, much less two ranks past far more consistent Pokemon such as Gengar and Kommo-o (who should absolutely rise to B+ but that is a discussion for another time

As for Torn-T to S, while I see where you are coming from, I have to heavily disagree. Tornadus is easily the best defogger in the tier and splashable on just about any archetype that isn't HO or Stall, but it lacks the overwhelming presence and power that Mega Metagross and Galarian Darm have that force many teams to specifically prep for them and also make many teams choose them just because of how consistently great they are at what they do. Tornadus-Therian is an excellent Pokemon in this metagame, but I cannot agree with a rise to S-rank

:clefable: A+ -> A

This struggles a lot with how popular breakers like Megagross, Darm-G, Rotom-Heat, Heatran, and Bisharp are. Not to mention a lot of what it does check is either mostly irrelevant in the current meta(Medicham, Hawlucha) or can be checked better by other Pokemon like Hippowdon (Pokemon like Mega Lopunny and Garchomp for instance)that handle more of the current meta and occupy the same role as Clef as a rocker on Balance. The tier's Defoggers also don't give Clef a break either, as Fini and Torn can cripple it with Taunt/Knock Off and wear it down as a result, while Corv just sits there and PP stalls Stealth Rock.

:Landorus-Therian: A- -> B+/B

Ever since Zygarde left, this has gotten even more overshadowed as a result of Garchomp's return, as Chomp occupies the one niche this had prior to Zygarde's quickban. This is made worse by the fact that Chomp provides usefulness outside of wallbreaking too, being a solid Fire-resist that can switchin at least a couple of times to Heatran and Oven, while also having better speed and overall bulk. Meanwhile Lando's speed is pretty middling, and Intimidate isn't super useful against common stuff like Bisharp and Darm-G, who will still wallop this and use it to gain momentum in the case of Darm. Lando also has to compete with Gliscor, who has also risen to prominence since the Zyg ban for it's own qualities as a capable SD breaker/utility mon who has reliable recovery AND is a reliable Heatran answer. Overall, Lando-T just struggles to do much without being outclassed and therefore just doesn't belong in A-.

:Gyarados-Mega: B- -> B

Definitely NOT B+ material because of how common Fini (Power Whip sucks as coverage) and Phys. Def Tang are, and how slow this tends to be before setting up, but the MegaToise ban does open up a potential slot for this on HO I guess.

:scizor-mega: A- -> A

Darm-G has gotten more popular since the MegaToise ban and Megagross is still pretty popular for obvious reasons, and this is one of the best answers to both, not fearing anything that Mega Metagross typically runs, and threatening Darm out with BP. It also compresses the role of a potential sweeper and a pivot while maintaining offensive presence, something most other checks like Slowbro can struggle with.
Heavily agree with all the nominations here except maybe Lando-T to B+/B, which I'm on the fence about
 
:greninja-ash: A -> A+/S
Specs ash gren is incredibly splashable, and by far the best special attacker in the meta. It is the fastest mon in the meta ignoring scarf, and has access to strong priority in the form of water shuriken. It is difficult to switch into due to its raw power, and is capable of doing absurd amount of damage in the rain. It beats mega gross outright and Darm after chip. Access to spikes or U-turn allows it keep momentum on switch-ins like Fini.

:garchomp: A -> A+
Garchomp has became the prevalent rock setter in the meta due its speed tier and ability to check common threats such as heatran, rotom-heat, and magnezone. It's decent natural bulk and access to rough skin also allows it to be a solid switch in to do some chip damage on U-turners. It can take a hit from non ice-punch gross, making it a decent revenge killer barring hax such as flinch from ZH. In addition to the standard Z-move sets, scarf chomp out speeds and has a high chance (93.5) to ohko scarf darm with stone edge.
 

faded love

DRINKS.
is a Tiering Contributor
hey everyone, it’s your friendly neighborhood vr councilmember faded love here to tell you what’s POPPIN in the metagame. Grab your popcorn, it’s a relatively big slate.

RISES:
Code:
Greninja-Ash to S
Garchomp to A+
Hydreigon to A+
Ferrothorn to A+
Mega Charizard-X to B+
Mega Charizard-Y to B
Reuniclus to A-
Excadrill to A-
Gliscor to A
Alomomola to B
Melmetal to B
Muk-Alolan to C
Venusaur to B+
Mega Heracross to C
:Greninja-Ash: to S - Ash Greninja is arguably the most dominating offensive threat in the metagame right now. Switch-ins are few and far between, and unreliable at best. In addition to this, it easily slots on to common archetypes like Metagross BO and Rain, leaving it more widespread than ever, and easily deserving of its new S placement.

:reuniclus: - As the metagame veers violently away from HO and towards slower, bulkier archetypes, Reuniclus is finding itself in a great spot, being able to take on common defensive cores like FiniTang and TangBro while also not vulnerable to the two most common means of revenge killing available in Darmanitan-G and Metagross is a rare and valuable combination, and the rise reflects that.

:alomomola: - The Zack Effect is in full swing, as Alomomola has shown itself a necessity on Stall teams, being able to take on MetaDarm with ease while providing Wish and a pivot into a plethora of other physical attackers. It doesn’t end there though, as Balance and Bulky Offense teams have also found use in the Wish Fish in place of traditional staples such as Toxapex and Slowbro. As such, Alomomola swims on up in ranking.

:Melmetal: and :muk-alola: - Stall’s resurgence in high level play reflects itself here. Melmetal is currently the Steel of choice, being threatening to opposing fat and being a nuisance itself to threats such as Tornadus and Tangrowth with its Substitute sets. Muk-Alola similarly is a useful cog on Stall, being capable of switching in on common breakers of fat like Gengar and Knocking then down a peg.


:venusaur-mega: to B+ - Mega Venusaur’s viability is in full bloom, as most archetypes are entirely unprepared for it, because it can effectively take on the most threatening of breakers like Ash Greninja and Darmanitan-G while being able to break down common FiniTang cores.

:heracross-mega: to C - Mega Heracross is a sleeper pick in the metagame right now with slower playstyles becoming more and more common. Swords Dance + 3 Attacks bugs out on defensive staples ranging from Clefable to Toxapex, with its stellar bulk even letting it trade hits with weaker revenge killers like Choice Scarf Hydreigon.

DROPS:
Code:
Corviknight to A-
Volcarona to A-
Ditto to B+
Blacephon to B-
Azumarill to UR
Conkeldurr to UR
Quagsire to UR
Pyukumuku to UR
:azumarill:Azumarill to UR - Azumarill is frankly worthless. Dracovish has largely taken all of its rain viability and Belly Drum sets are far too unreliable in their ability to actually setup to ever be considered worth using.

:conkeldurr: Conkeldurr to UR - Conk offers nothing one of the other five viable Fighting-types could not do just better and more reliably, leaving its viability but a Facade.

:pyukumuku: and :quagsire: to UR- Use Clefable instead.

Hope you guys enjoyed reading! Keep up with the great nominations.

Here’s the voting doc for reference:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...kREwShN4OKqzTHP_XQIk2VWm_AI/edit#gid=62935688
 
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Small nom,
:serperior: => B/B-
Serperior finds it in an awkward position rn.
On the one hand it likes the surge in alo usage and ashgren to a degree, but on the other hand stuff like melm, a-muk, mvenu, and even mhera just prevent it from shining through.
Additionally, it's abusable by so many common mons like torn-t and heatran (torn can't switch into scarf serp but scarf serp is just bad) and mvenu and therefore warrants a drop.
 


Alomomola to A-. Mola is critical to any self-respecting stall team. It's ability to wishpass and spread status with Scald+Toxic can cripple many mons. It's fantastic bulk let's it switch into many hits and double out with Regenerator. Mola can also be used on Balance type builds, providing good recovery. It also soft checks the infamous Ash-Greninja, as it can switch in to Hydros and Pulses.
 
:ss/Kommo-o:

Kommo-o -> B+

Kommo-o is a Pokemon I feel is much better than its current ranking gives it credit for, and I would argue this on the basis of two sets: Defensive Rocks and Double Dance

Defensive Rocks:

:Kommo-o:

Kommo-o @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe OR 252 HP/ 200 Def / 56 Spe
Impish Nature
- Body Press
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake/ Dragon Tail
- Toxic/Flamethrower/Taunt/Iron Defense

OR

:Kommo-o:

Kommo-o @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 200 SpD / 56 Spe
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Drain Punch / Body Press
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Protect / Dragon Tail

This right here is what I believe to be Kommo-o's best and most consistent set on the metagame. With the given set, Kommo-o can effectively check many relevant metagame threats such as Rotom-Heat, NP Hydreigon (without Draco), Excadrill, Ferrothorn, Heatran, Serperior, Ash-Greninja, Tangrowth, Aegislash (You have to run EQ/Flame for it though), Kartana, Tyranitar, and Magnezone. Body Press is an amazing STAB that hits extremely hard off of its excellent base 125 Defense. Kommo-o can make great use of Stealh Rock as it can set up rocks on pretty much all of the aforementioned Pokemon.

The beautiful thing about this set is outside of those two moves, you can put just about anything you want on it. I think Earthquake is by far the best option for the 3rd slot, hitting most things Body Press can't , like Aegislash, Dragapult, Gengar, and others, but Dragon Tail is also a great option to help phaze out setup sweepers. For the 4th slot, Toxic lets it threaten anything that would come in on it, like Slowbro or Torn, crippling them for the rest of the game and adding to the list of Pokemon Kommo-o can help take care of. Flamethrower can be used to take better care of Steels and bulky Grasses, Taunt can basically let you 1v1 Corviknight, and Iron Defense turns you into a potent win condition.

In regards to the spread, the former spread is the one I prefer, but the latter can be run to outspeed defensive Heatran and Modest Magnezone.

One final note, the other set is a more spdef oriented one courtesy of Chazm that better checks Ash-Greninja, Heatran, Serp, and others, though I feel that the physdef set is better. Also, Drain Punch helps with Kommo-o's longevity, since one of its biggest flaws is it complete lack of reliable recovery, though if you want more power you can stick with Body Press

Now, all of this is readily apparent from just looking at the set, but the reason I'm nominating Kommo-o to rise is because many of the Pokemon it checks/counters are ones that are extremely relevant and viable in the current metagame, and what it allows it to do is serve as incredible role compression for certain teams and as a potent win condition on others. While it does not appreciate the prominence of Galarian Darmanitan, Tapu Fini, or Mega Metagross, and it faces competition from Garchomp as a rocker, Defensive Kommo-o still has a very sold niche in this current metagame that alone should place it in the B+ rank as it is more akin to those mons in terms of consistency and viability than anything in B. However, it is not Kommo-o's only set, and the next set is the one I think helps it clinch a place in B+

Double Dance

:Kommo-o:

Kommo-o (M) @ Kommonium Z
Ability: Bulletproof
Happiness: 160
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Clangorous Soul
- Clanging Scales
- Close Combat
- Poison Jab

This is Kommo-o's best offensive set by far, and is incredibly splashable on any sort of HO team. What's so great about this set is its consistency, as thanks to what I call "Double Clanger", Kommo-o can set up effectively whenever it wants to, even if there's still fairies on the opposing side, making it far easier to play and far harder to play against than last generation, and often, +1 all around is enough to deal with the fairies that trouble Kommo-o, given some chip (which on screens HO should not be hard to provide)

+1 252 Atk Kommo-o Poison Jab vs. 248 HP / 16 Def Tapu Fini: 204-240 (59.4 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+1 252 Atk Kommo-o Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 232-274 (63.9 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252 Atk Kommo-o Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 204-242 (51.7 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Clef is the hardest to deal with I will admit)

However, that being said, Kommo-o is still prone to being revenge killed at +1 by both the fairies and by scarfers like Hydreigon and Galarian Darmanitan. But remember, I said that this set has the benefit of consistency, and often that means not only being able to set up once, but twice, and once it does so, it outspeeds every single scarfer in the game but Dragapult, and with that speed comes ludicrous power

+2 252 Atk Kommo-o Poison Jab vs. 248 HP / 16 Def Tapu Fini: 272-320 (79.3 - 93.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Kommo-o Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross-Mega: 246-289 (81.7 - 96%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (+1 CC into Soulblaze kills guaranteed, and I'm pretty sure Soulblaze into +1 CC has a good chance to kill after rocks)

+2 252 Atk Kommo-o Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 309-364 (85.1 - 100.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (offensive variants just lose outright)

+2 4 SpA Kommo-o Clanging Scales vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus-Therian: 259-306 (71.5 - 84.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (Cannot switch into CC whatsoever even at +1 and dies to Soulblaze)

+2 4 SpA Kommo-o Clanging Scales vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tangrowth: 412-486 (101.9 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Cannot switch into CC either. Soulblaze also annihilates it even at neutral)

+2 252 Atk Kommo-o Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 272-322 (69 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I could post some other calcs highlighting its power but I think you get the point. Double Dance Kommo-o is a very consistent win condition for Hyper Offensive teams that gives it great counterplay vs not only standard balance, but other Hyper Offenses as well (This thing can get to +2 behind screens and completely 6-0 rain and sun)

Just to sweeten the deal, I'll even post replays proving all of this

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1108685770 (Kommo-o reverse 6-0s my opponent off of some admittedly bad plays but as you can see, chipping Fini into range of my attacks was easy to do)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1105083050 (Destroying Sun)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1105079814 (Without Para Kommo-o won outright)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1101520180 (Dumpsters Rain)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1100261826

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1094995437 (From Toise meta but Kommo-o dumpsters HO)


CONCLUSION:

Kommo-o possesses a great level of viability in the current metagame because of both its ability to defensively check many relevant metagame threats with its defensive rocks set and its ability to cleave through teams with its offensive double dance set, and it can do both of these things with a level of consistency that is befitting a Pokemon worthy of the B+ rank.
 
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Hey all, I know this has been talked about amongst the VR council but I figured I would bring it up myself since it is a Pokemon I feel deserves to be ranked.

:ss/terrakion:

Terrakion -> C

Terrakion @ Choice Band
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Megahorn

The addition of Megahorn to this Pokemon's moveset this generation was an enourmous benefit. Being able to hit Tangrowth and Slowbro supereffectively is extremely important, as they are two very prominent checks to physical attackers. This set, if the user predicts properly, has the ability to absolutely crush slower, fatter balance teams. The main Pokemon that hold Terrakion back from greatness are offensive checks like Metagross, Darm-G, Ash Greninja, and Kartana, as well as the annoying prescence of Alomomola on stall builds. This is very prediction reliant, and is best run with slow VoltTurn in order to get Terrakion in without taking much damage, to maximize longevity.

note: I did not include S rank because all three of those Pokemon are not switching in on Terrakion, and all check it offensively.

A+

:clefable: Edge 2HKO
:ferrothorn: CC OHKO
:garchomp: CC 2HKO
:heatran: Not switching into Terrak
:hydreigon: CC and MHorn OHKO
:rotom-heat: Edge OHKO
:slowbro: MHorn 2HKO
:tangrowth: MHorn 2HKO
:tapu-fini: Edge 2HKO
:tornadus-therian: Edge OHKO
:toxapex: EQ OHKO

A

:aegislash: EQ OHKO
:gliscor: Needs nearly Max Defense to avoid Edge 2HKO
:greninja: Not switching into Terrak
:kartana: Not switching into Terrak
:lopunny-mega: Not switching into Terrak
:magnezone: EQ and CC OHKO
:tyranitar-mega: Not switching into Terrak

A-

:alakazam-mega: Not switching into Terrak
:corviknight: CC 2HKO
:ditto: CC and EQ OHKO
:excadrill: Not switching into Terrak
:hippowdon: Needs nearly Max Defense to avoid CC 2HKO
:kyurem: Not switching into Terrak
:landorus-therian: Edge 2HKO, but scarf scares out Terrak
:latios-mega: Edge and MHorn OHKO
:magearna: CC and EQ OHKO
:reuniclus: MHorn OHKO
:scizor-mega: CC 2HKO (Terrak lives 1 BP)
:slowbro-mega: MHorn OHKO/2HKO depending on Defense investment
:volcarona: Not switching into Terrak

As you can see, despite not every Pokemon being a switch in, Terrakion has an extremely favorable matchup against nearly all of the prominent Pokemon in the metagame.

:terrakion:
Terrakion @ Rockium Z
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance
- Stealth Rock

This set is done better by Garchomp and Lando-T, but it is noteworthy as Terrakion gets STAB Continental Crush and has the best speed tier out of the aforementioned Pokemon.

I hope this is enough to get Terrakion ranked this slate. If anything here isn't correct, feel free to let me know. Thanks!

Edit: Sagisolar asked for replays and I fully agree with the idea of having replays for a UR -> VR nom. This was more difficult than I thought due to "why can't I face a single standard team" aka ladder's wack. Also, quality could be better but I wanted to get these out.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1113041379
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1113079690 - this is just here to show the power of Rak vs Corv and other mons that take neutral damage, since obviously its an awful replay
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1113121677
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1113395720
 
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Hey all, I know this has been talked about amongst the VR council but I figured I would bring it up myself since it is a Pokemon I feel deserves to be ranked.

:ss/terrakion:

Terrakion -> C

Terrakion @ Choice Band
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Megahorn

The addition of Megahorn to this Pokemon's moveset this generation was an enourmous benefit. Being able to hit Tangrowth and Slowbro supereffectively is extremely important, as they are two very prominent checks to physical attackers. This set, if the user predicts properly, has the ability to absolutely crush slower, fatter balance teams. The main Pokemon that hold Terrakion back from greatness are offensive checks like Metagross, Darm-G, Ash Greninja, and Kartana, as well as the annoying prescence of Alomomola on stall builds. This is very prediction reliant, and is best run with slow VoltTurn in order to get Terrakion in without taking much damage, to maximize longevity.

note: I did not include S rank because all three of those Pokemon are not switching in on Terrakion, and all check it offensively.

A+

:clefable: Edge 2HKO
:ferrothorn: CC OHKO
:garchomp: CC 2HKO
:heatran: Not switching into Terrak
:hydreigon: CC and MHorn OHKO
:rotom-heat: Edge OHKO
:slowbro: MHorn 2HKO
:tangrowth: MHorn 2HKO
:tapu-fini: Edge 2HKO
:tornadus-therian: Edge OHKO
:toxapex: EQ OHKO

A

:aegislash: EQ OHKO
:gliscor: Needs nearly Max Defense to avoid Edge 2HKO
:greninja: Not switching into Terrak
:kartana: Not switching into Terrak
:lopunny-mega: Not switching into Terrak
:magnezone: EQ and CC OHKO
:tyranitar-mega: Not switching into Terrak

A-

:alakazam-mega: Not switching into Terrak
:corviknight: CC 2HKO
:ditto: CC and EQ OHKO
:excadrill: Not switching into Terrak
:hippowdon: Needs nearly Max Defense to avoid CC 2HKO
:kyurem: Not switching into Terrak
:landorus-therian: Edge 2HKO, but scarf scares out Terrak
:latios-mega: Edge and MHorn OHKO
:magearna: CC and EQ OHKO
:reuniclus: MHorn OHKO
:scizor-mega: CC 2HKO (Terrak lives 1 BP)
:slowbro-mega: MHorn OHKO/2HKO depending on Defense investment
:volcarona: Not switching into Terrak

As you can see, despite not every Pokemon being a switch in, Terrakion has an extremely favorable matchup against nearly all of the prominent Pokemon in the metagame.

:terrakion:
Terrakion @ Rockium Z
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance
- Stealth Rock

This set is done better by Garchomp and Lando-T, but it is noteworthy as Terrakion gets STAB Continental Crush and has the best speed tier out of the aforementioned Pokemon.

I hope this is enough to get Terrakion ranked this slate. If anything here isn't correct, feel free to let me know. Thanks!
Would you mind supplying replays with this thing in action. It looks pretty good but sometimes what something does on paper doesn't end up prefilled in practice. This should go for all UR > Rank nominations in the future as well in my opinion.
 

Jho

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Can we rank deoxis d or something?
It’s not currently ranked because it doesn’t have any niche in the metagame and is considered unviable. In pretty much every scenario it’s a worse Mew so there really isn’t any reason to run it besides doing it for fun, which is fair enough but doesn’t warrant it a spot on the VR

If you have any reasons to think it deserves a spot please do write out a proper nomination post, I would be interested in reading it!
 
It’s not currently ranked because it doesn’t have any niche in the metagame and is considered unviable. In pretty much every scenario it’s a worse Mew so there really isn’t any reason to run it besides doing it for fun, which is fair enough but doesn’t warrant it a spot on the VR

If you have any reasons to think it deserves a spot please do write out a proper nomination post, I would be interested in reading it!
Not sure if you're srs but, ill bite. You said its a worse mew with zero evidence. Have you used both?
Not being able to be ohko'ed by scarfed vish i think is quite nice
Having a change to live spec ash dark pulse is nice
Almost always living specs gar shadow ball is nice
Not dying to spec pult shadow ball after rocks is good
Good chance to live specs blace shadow ball
Not getting 1hkoed by Gdarm uturn

I could go on. Mew has 10 more base speed. Thats it. The only time that is relevant is against Rachi and Lano but magic coat also exists.
DeoD is probably one of the best things in the tier right now although it does need team support. Clearly needs to be ranked
 

Jordy

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What's up man, I saw you were wondering about Deoxys-D and why it's considered worse than Mew. Below I've compiled some damage calculations that will support the stance and hopefully help you out! I'll also explain a little more in-depth.

252+ Atk Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 355-418 (87.8 - 103.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Defense: 237-279 (77.9 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You're right, Deoxys-D does not get OHKOed by Choice Scarf Dracovish, however, 1) Choice Scarf Dracovish is not good in National Dex; it cannot get past bulky Water-resistant Pokemon like Tangrowth and Slowbro, and 2) this is assuming that it's Adamant, which it can't really afford because of Mega Lopunny.

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 336-396 (83.1 - 98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-Defense: 222-264 (73 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This is the relevant calculation; the post-transformation calculation doesn't matter because both should exclusively be used as leads. As you can see, Mew lives too.

252 SpA Choice Specs Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 392-464 (97 - 114.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-Defense: 260-308 (85.5 - 101.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

This calculation does indeed favor Deoxys-D, but luckily for Mew, Choice Specs Gengar is horrible in this metagame and you'll practically never face it. It's horrible because whatever move it Choice locks into can be punished rather easily. What makes Gengar so hard to play around is its pretty wide coverage, restricting your own opportunities and freeing up the potential to play around Gengar for the opponent with a Choice Specs, really doesn't make sense if you think about it.

252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 326-386 (80.6 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-Defense: 218-258 (71.7 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

They both live! You're right that it dies after Stealth Rock, but both Pokemon are used as leads, so Stealth Rock damage doesn't make sense to assume. This isn't a relevant calculation as Choice Specs Dragapult's not relevant either, though.

252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 440-518 (108.9 - 128.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-Defense: 290-344 (95.3 - 113.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

Deoxys-D does indeed have a chance to live, but Blacephalon has been on a steady decline and that small 25% chance to live a Shadow Ball from a pretty forgotten relic definitely isn't better than the extra Speed.

252 Atk Choice Band Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 362-428 (89.6 - 105.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Defense: 240-284 (78.9 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Mew does indeed have a chance to be KOed by Choice Band Galarian Darmanitan while Deoxys-D doesn't, however, Mew's main aim is to set entry hazards. Considering that it's faster than Galarian Darmanitan, it can still get up Stealth Rock and that's what matters.

As you can see from some of these calculations and my explanations, Deoxys-D's extra bulk doesn't really apply much to the current metagame and definitely isn't worth more than the extra Speed Mew provides. Mew, for example, can guarantee getting up Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes against Pokemon like Hydreigon and Tapu Lele, because it's faster; Deoxys-D can't do that.
 
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OP Stolen from the OU Thread


art by Cresselia92

Viability Rankings
(new banner coming soon!)


Welcome to the first official NatDex OU Viability Rankings thread. In this thread, we as a community will be ranking every single usable Pokemon into "tiers." You're encouraged to post your thoughts and opinions on the various Pokemon that are usable in NatDex OU and what tier they should fall under. Posts in this thread will be taken into account when deciding rank changes.

The general idea of the topic is to rank each NatDex OU Pokemon under "rankings" that go in descending order. Since this is a tier list for the entire metagame, everything is lumped together. There won't be any segregation between offense, defense, and supportive presences in the metagame within this thread. For example, Ferrothorn can be ranked in the A tier as a supportive presence, Ash Greninja can be ranked in the A+ as an offensive presence, and Toxapex can be ranked in the A+ tier as a defensive presence. While these three examples can also be found in the initial rankings, the viability of Pokemon and their roles within the metagame can and will change over time, so we will be sure to keep an open mind to this as well and adjust the thread accordingly during each update.

Viability Council:

The Pokemon in the sub-ranks are ordered alphabetically.

S Rank:

:darmanitan-galar: Darmanitan-Galar
:greninja-ash: Greninja-Ash
:metagross-mega: Metagross-Mega

A Rank:

A+

:clefable: Clefable
:ferrothorn: Ferrothorn
:garchomp: Garchomp
:heatran: Heatran
:hydreigon: Hydreigon
:rotom-heat: Rotom-Heat
:slowbro: Slowbro
:tangrowth: Tangrowth
:tapu-fini: Tapu Fini
:tornadus-therian: Tornadus-Therian
:toxapex: Toxapex

A

:aegislash: Aegislash
:gliscor: Gliscor
:greninja: Greninja
:kartana: Kartana
:lopunny-mega: Lopunny-Mega
:magnezone: Magnezone
:tyranitar-mega: Tyranitar-Mega

A-

:alakazam-mega: Alakazam-Mega
:corviknight: Corviknight
:excadrill: Excadrill
:hippowdon: Hippowdon
:kyurem: Kyurem
:landorus-therian: Landorus-Therian
:latios-mega: Latios-Mega
:magearna: Magearna
:reuniclus: Reuniclus
:scizor-mega: Scizor-Mega
:slowbro-mega: Slowbro-Mega
:volcarona: Volcarona

B Rank:

B+

:bisharp: Bisharp
:chansey: Chansey
:charizard-mega-x: Charizard-Mega-X
:ditto: Ditto
:dragapult: Dragapult
:latias-mega: Latias-Mega
:mawile-mega: Mawile-Mega
:mew: Mew
:pelipper: Pelipper
:rotom-wash: Rotom-Wash
:serperior: Serperior
:swampert-mega: Swampert-Mega
:tapu-lele: Tapu Lele
:tyranitar: Tyranitar
:venusaur-mega: Venusaur-Mega
:zapdos: Zapdos

B

:alomomola: Alomomola
:charizard-mega-y: Charizard-Mega-Y
:gastrodon: Gastrodon
:gengar: Gengar
:kommo-o: Kommo-o
:medicham-mega: Medicham-Mega
:melmetal: Melmetal
:victini: Victini
:weavile: Weavile

B-

:amoonguss: Amoonguss
:blacephalon: Blacephalon
:dracovish: Dracovish
:gallade-mega: Gallade-Mega
:grimmsnarl: Grimmsnarl
:gyarados: Gyarados
:gyarados-mega: Gyarados-Mega
:hawlucha: Hawlucha
:hoopa-unbound: Hoopa-Unbound
:jirachi: Jirachi
:manaphy: Manaphy
:sableye-mega: Sableye-Mega
:seismitoad: Seismitoad

C Rank:

:aggron-mega: Aggron-Mega
:crawdaunt: Crawdaunt
:diancie-mega: Diancie-Mega
:mamoswine: Mamoswine
:mantine: Mantine
:mimikyu: Mimikyu
:moltres: Moltres
:muk-alola: Muk-Alola
:nidoking: Nidoking
:ribombee: Ribombee
:skarmory: Skarmory
:suicune: Suicune
:thundurus-therian: Thundurus-Therian
:torkoal: Torkoal
:venusaur: Venusaur
:volcanion: Volcanion

  • Post intelligently. Posts like "I think pokemon X should be in this tier" will be deleted. Expand on your opinion with actual analysis showing understanding of the metagame and perhaps bringing a unique perspective to the conversation.
  • Absolutely no flaming, personal attacks, or general idiocy will be tolerated. Part of this is under moderator discretion and please know that posting in this thread is a privilege, not a right. You'll get warned initially if it is not something overly malicious, but harsher punishments can and will come with repeated behavior or severe offenses.
  • Usage statistics may be used to support an argument or a claim, but don't base your ENTIRE argument around them. There needs to be more substance than just this. For example, you can't just say "Pokemon X shouldn't be this tier because they aren't used that often!"
  • When nominating a Pokemon to move from one rank to another, do not merely list its obvious qualities such as stats, typing, movepool, etc. If you think a Pokemon deserves to rise or drop, explain what has changed in the meta to cause such Pokemon to get better or worse. I can assure you that the VR Council already knows the obvious qualities and we are far more interested in understanding why you believe it has increased or decreased in viability.
  • Unrelated discussion such as talk of (potential) suspects and unproductive one liners that do not greatly contribute to discussion will be deleted. If this becomes a recurring issue for any particular user, then it could lead to an infraction. If you are unsure where to post something, feel free to start a conversation with me on here or discord. Moreover, if you have a general question, then odds are it belongs in the SQSA, not here.
Blacklisted Pokemon: All posts regarding these Pokemon will be deleted (or nominations of these Pokemon will be removed)

  • N/A -- let's try to not have this list grow too much this generation!
And thats it! Happy posting :blobthumbsup:
I think quagsire should be put somewhere
I run EQ/Toxic/Recover/Protect with leftovers and unaware, and it can bring most setter-uppers to at the very least, a stalemate if not brutally murdering them (unless they crit of course). Weaknesses are serperior, kartana, tangrowth, tapu fini and volcarona, but paired with chansey and zapdos it can be a visible threat.
Quag is good against garchomp, mega meta, heatran, magnezone, and a-greninja (to a certain extent), and can hold its own against dragpult and most other stallers, with the electric immunity protecting against tapu koko, zerarora and thunder wave

this Pokémon is unique compared to other stallers because not onlyif it’s ability and moveset along with useable stats, but also because it’s lack of weaknesses let’s it counter many current threats
 
So im #1 on ladder spamming deo sharp with this team:
Metagross-Mega @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch

Dragapult @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Darts
- Phantom Force
- Substitute

Deoxys-Defense @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Skill Swap
- Taunt

Bisharp @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance

Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP
IVs: 30 Atk
- Transform

Greninja-Ash (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Hydro Pump
- Water Shuriken
- U-turn
And I think
1) Deoxys -> B+
Needs team support. But clearly has a niche over mew. Stall gives hazard stack many problems. Red card mew is basically useless. Colbur berry+skill swap deo gives you a better match up vs both offensive and stall teams.
Vs offence
Being able to lead vs ninja, blace, vish, sharp and not be 1hkoed is huge. While these may not be the ideal matchups for deo, getting off rocks anyway is huge and allows deo to function better vs many offensive teams because of how hard it is to ohko. Admittedly is worse vs scizor, drill, max speed lando with rocks. Very worth the trade off to live any dark move and have multiple opportunities to set up. Better vs: Hydre, Blace, Ninja, Slow lando, Darm, Bisharp, Fini, Torn, Slash, Kart, Zapdos, Wevile, Victini, Tar, Magerna, Chomp, Gar+all defensive mons.
Vs stall
Here is where Deoxys makes the case that it is actually better. Redcard mew makes no progress vs defensive teams. This forces it to be paired with band darm, band vish, or sd kart. Needing these brakers makes a mew based team very reliant on its breaker having a good matchup and also risking getting outsped and swept by offense. Deo has none of these problems. By outspeeding stall and having skill swap, deo can make progress every time it comes in. This allows stuff like MMeta over Kartana and Pult over Vish. These mons are better complemented by hazard stack bc they have trouble boosting attack (MMeta, Ninja) or have a low base (Pult)
Replay vs stall: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1116327524
Able to get up rocks+ spikes. Forced him to defog. Boost let my sharp break. Pult cleaned up

Leads me to
Dragapult-> A-

Pult with ghost z has so few counters. Ridiculously hard to revenge and insane neutral coverage. Great defensive typing and sub allowing to break more defense than it should, high speed lets it be a great attacker unboosted. Way above anything in B+ and many things in A-.

MMeta-> A+
Meta was actually quite underwhelming on this team. Very good check to offense but most things have ways to hit it SE. On the defensive side easier to wall than would appear on paper. Many good checks can be fit on stall and balance and the coverage answers don't ohko any of them. Even if it has the right coverage, it can be pivoted around because they don't ohko targets. Always gets countered by a common mon regardless of the move it chooses. Has many solid defensive checks. Not nearly as brainless as ninja or darm.
 
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faded love

DRINKS.
is a Tiering Contributor
Hey all,
I want to make a quick announcement regarding Deoxys-Defense. Deoxys-D is now BLACKLISTED FROM DISCUSSION. The reason for this being that Deoxys-D is simply outclassed by Mew. Mew gets all the same moves, is faster, and has better matchups against common removal such as Excadrill or Tornadus depending on your choice between Flare Blitz or Explosion. Deoxys-D is marginally bulkier, but this extra bulk rarely ever matters outside of a couple of fringe leads you rarely will ever see, and as such discussion of this Pokémon really does waste everyone’s time having to go over the same couple of points and takes away from current ongoing viability discussions which actually can go somewhere. Any further posts regarding this subject risk deletion and even infraction. Please direct all of your stupid questions to Jordy ’s wall.

yours,

your neighborhood vr councilman faded
 
This is my first post here.
Leads me to
Dragapult-> A-

Pult with ghost z has so few counters. Ridiculously hard to revenge and insane neutral coverage. Great defensive typing and sub allowing to break more defense than it should, high speed lets it be a great attacker unboosted. Way above anything in B+ and many things in A-.
I can agree to this, Pult can be ridiculously hard to switch into if it's z-move is still present. However, I don't think that it should go higher than this because it can be walled and revenged killed easily if it has us.

My second nom:
Mega-Alakazam -> A
Based on the teams that I've been playing on that ladder, Zam destroys so many of them. With it's ability to trace regen, it is so easily able to shred balance teams as they run corviknight over celesteela, also tending towards phys def evs, which makes it easy to beat corv.
 

Jho

is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Live Chat Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Simulator Driver
Moderator
Promised VR post inc

Rise Noms:

:tornadus-therian: A+ to S-
We don't currently have an S- but I believe that Tornadus-T is quite far ahead of the rest of A+ but that it still falls a little short of the top 3 mons, so I believe an S- would be justifiable in this case. Tornadus-T has always been one of the best mons in the metagame, however, recently it has been seeing even more usage since consistent and reliable checks to it really aren't that common outside of Toxapex. Pokemon like Rotom-H, Heatran, and Metagross, for example, are all not sufficient checks as they get Knock'd off / worn down incredibly easily and as such Tornadus-T has an incredibly good time against the very common Metagross balances and bulky offenses. The rise in rain teams has also lead to more Tornadus-T, particularly the offensive variants ranging from Metronome to Z move giving it even more splashability as these variants are both great for Rain teams, and great against them. You will notice that the most common Rain build which is being spammed on ladder currently is demolished by an offensive Tornadus-T, for example. The only meta trend which Tornadus-T doesn't particularly like is the small rise Sand teams have been seeing as they typically feature Pokemon such as Mega Tyranitar and Toxapex which allows them to deal with Tornadus-T quite effectively. It can, however, still be a nuisance to these teams thanks to its ability to wear down Mega Tyranitar with U-turn's and potentially lure it with a viable, but rare All Out Pummeling. Overall I believe these meta trends lead Tornadus-T to separate itself from the rest of the A+ pack by a decent margin due to how splashable it is and how hard it can be to deal with effectively for common teams.

:dragapult: B+ to A-
I have very publically hated Dragapult in NatDex for a long time but I have found recently that Electrium Z is quite potent in the current metagame where Darmanitan-G is arguably the strongest Pokemon. On top of this, Dragon Dance variants have also been making a comeback as it allows teams to have an insane amount of natural speed control vs teams such as Rain for example - where Dragapult can naturally outpace Ash Greninja and Choice Scarf Dracovish, and also outpaces Mega Swampert after a Dragon Dance. It is, however, entirely reliant on its Z move on both its sets as it is incredibly weak and easily walled without it, which gives it a pretty heft opportunity cost to running it to the point where I think any higher than A- is overselling it.

:manaphy: B- to A- :swampert-mega: B+ to A- :pelipper: B+ to A-
Manaphy rain has become the standard build and as such Manaphy deserves to be with the other Rain staples in B+/A-. Manaphy on these teams was brought about by the massive surge in Semi Stall / Stall teams that we have been seeing recently and rest Manaphy just runs over all of those builds that don't have something like a tech Clear Smog Gastrodon, which has become far more common as a direct result of Manaphy's rise. I believe that Rain is underrepresented in B+ and should be moved up as a whole to A- along with similarly strong cores, such as Sand.


Drop Noms:

:clefable: A+ to A
Clefable really struggles in the current metagame; utility sets are typically very hard to fit onto teams as they offer little defensive utility and often have much better Stealth Rock options available to teams that would want Clefable. The small rise Sand and Melmetal Stall have seen also does no favours for Clefable, as both Excadrill and Melmetal prey on utility Clefable so easily. Calm Mind sets are also incredibly hard to make work currently due to the large number of Metagross teams in general which can very easily revenge kill it or dissuade it from setting up. Taunt Heatran also becoming slightly more common also does Clefable no favors. Despite all of this, I still think Clefable has a decent amount of merit as Mega Lopunny has seen a decent rise in usage, and Clefable tends to be a really solid pick into teams that feature it. As a result of all of this, I think an A rank would reflect what Clefable does in the current metagame much more accurately than A+.

I do have some other thoughts about a lot of Pokemon in the A- and B+ ranks in particular but I'm not quite sure where I would put them currently, so for now I will leave it with these noms.
 
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I think with the prevalence of mons such as Sp Def Clefable and Rocky Helmet Slowbro and stall teams on the ladder in general that Hoopa-U should rise from B- to B/B+.

Its ability to come in on a mon that doesnt threaten it whatsoever such as mega venasaur, Zapdos, Rotom(scout for will o wisp if using the physical variant) or Magnezone and fire off a powerful Banded Hyperspace Fury really allows it to break down teams that rely on mons such as AV Mag or Chansey as their Gren check. Toxapex also gets mauled by either the physical or special variant, meaning its not safe to come in on Gren as it can just U Turn out and bring in Hoopa, which is a huge momentum loss for the enemy team.

It also can pretty much singlehandedly beat even hard stall teams with a combination of Nasty Plot/Dark Pulse/Psyshock/Focus Blast w/ Fightinium Z. +2 Modest All Out Pummeling always OHKOes Chansey, and Psyshock and Dark Pulse pretty much destroy anything else on the team. Burn is ineffective against this variant as is Knock Off, meaning that hoopa doesnt really care about anything Sableye wants to do.

Hoopa is also specially bulkier than even many of the passive mons it comes in on( a +2 Leaf Storm from Serperior only OHKOes 12.5% of the time after rocks with minimal Sp Def investment) meaning its able to comfortably take hits from powerful mons such as Specs Kyurem, Mega Latios and Scarf Hydreigon.

Replay: Choice Band Hoopa heavily pressuring a stall team https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1118497562
Taking advantage of a weak special attacker(M-Venasaur) to dismantle a Clef+Corv defensive core https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1118506800
 
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