Well you can always use Future Sight if pp is an issue (Jirachi learns that too) I think the base power is less though (100 versus 80 iirc). I think I'll revamp it for a more bulky position as far as EVs go and add CM over Charge Beam. I have been getting paralyzed more often than not though so I geuss speed really isn't an issue.
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New and "creative" moveset/EV spread thread "Mark 2"
- Thread starter gengod
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I think you mean Lonely > Rash? Reminds of Chainchomp actually . . .
Future Sight has 80 BP, Doom Desire has 120.
This is late but that Lapras set sounds awesome. I might actually use that in my UU team as a mixed attacker.
PINSIR @ --------
Mold Breaker
Adamant
252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Spd
STEALTH ROCK
THIEF
X-SCISSOR
EARTHQUAKE
Lays down the Rocks, nicks an item and prepares to go down fighting.
AZELF: If it Fire Blasts, you're toast. If it tries to lay down Rocks or Taunt you, nick its Sash with Thief and kill with STAB X-Scissor.
TYRANITAR: Either attacks with X-Scissor or nicks its item.
BRONZONG: Attacks with Earthquake.
METAGROSS: Attacks with Earthquake.
GENGAR: Attacks with Earthquake.
ZAPDOS: Say your prayers.
INFERNAPE: Die horribly.
Mold Breaker
Adamant
252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Spd
STEALTH ROCK
THIEF
X-SCISSOR
EARTHQUAKE
Lays down the Rocks, nicks an item and prepares to go down fighting.
AZELF: If it Fire Blasts, you're toast. If it tries to lay down Rocks or Taunt you, nick its Sash with Thief and kill with STAB X-Scissor.
TYRANITAR: Either attacks with X-Scissor or nicks its item.
BRONZONG: Attacks with Earthquake.
METAGROSS: Attacks with Earthquake.
GENGAR: Attacks with Earthquake.
ZAPDOS: Say your prayers.
INFERNAPE: Die horribly.
Sorry, but that is a terrible set. You are utilising neither Pinsir's sweeping capabilities or his high defence, but are rather making a useless compromise. Sure Pinsir can switch in on an Earthquake or something and set up Stealth Rock, but what's it going to do after that? You've put no investment into Pinsir's decent base 85 speed and so your sweep will be non-existent. Do you ever see a Heracross set run no speed EVs?
Not to mention how terrible Bug + Ground coverage is. Sure you can hit bronzong and gengar for a bit of damage, but what is the point when you can't do jack to any flying pokemon? The only thing you got right about this set is that it has to "say its prayers" when faced with a Zapdos, Salamence, Gyarados, Gliscor, Togekiss, even Yanmega and Ninjask!
Thief is useless. End of story. If you want a bulky user of Stealth Rock, go use a Swampert. If you want to sweep with Pinsir, throw on Stone Edge over Thief and slap on a Life Orb or something.
I know this is the "Creative" moveset thread, but please don't spout stuff like this without successful testing.
Thank you.
I'd rather use Quick Attack over Thief if I were to use that set. That way you can kill off Azelf and other frail Sashers, perhaps even Infernape if it isn't using Fake Out for some reason.
I don't think that sets completely useless. QA / SR / EQ / X-S may work with Sash, but it's been stated before... This sets not entirely new:
Rotom @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 6 HP
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power Ice
- Trick / Will-o-Wisp
Note: It's the REAL Rotom, no stupid lawnmower or refrigerator appliance (where's the vacuum one?). Just the cool plasmatic rain drop.
Yeah, I don't think it's new but there's no analysis set that explains it. Easy as lemon squeezy, it's a revenge killer mostly. You can also come in on Shaymin-S Earth Power or Air Slash (which 4HKOs), and kill with HP Ice. Thunderbolt kills ALL Gyarados, and even Togekiss after SR. 2HKOs every standard bulky water too. Shadow Ball clears the way of those pesky frail ghosts / psychics, and 2HKOs Dusknoir. Trick when Blissey comes in, or just burn that Tyranitar switch in.
Why use it over Gengar?
1. Surprise- how many would actually expect this?
2. T-Bolt will kill every Gyarados, even with a Light Screen up after SR damage
3. Resists Shaymin-S Air Slash, making it a decent counter.
Why use it over Rotom Appliances?
1. More speed- outruns neutral base 90's like Porygon-Z and Roserade with a Scarf.
2. Surprise- again, how many expect this guy to be scarfed? (maybe a lot, I don't know)
3. He's actually cool- One of the coolest Pokemon in my opinion, and not a stupid piece of equipment
---------------------------
I only tested it on Wifi, and did quite well.
Rotom @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 6 HP
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power Ice
- Trick / Will-o-Wisp
Note: It's the REAL Rotom, no stupid lawnmower or refrigerator appliance (where's the vacuum one?). Just the cool plasmatic rain drop.
Yeah, I don't think it's new but there's no analysis set that explains it. Easy as lemon squeezy, it's a revenge killer mostly. You can also come in on Shaymin-S Earth Power or Air Slash (which 4HKOs), and kill with HP Ice. Thunderbolt kills ALL Gyarados, and even Togekiss after SR. 2HKOs every standard bulky water too. Shadow Ball clears the way of those pesky frail ghosts / psychics, and 2HKOs Dusknoir. Trick when Blissey comes in, or just burn that Tyranitar switch in.
Why use it over Gengar?
1. Surprise- how many would actually expect this?
2. T-Bolt will kill every Gyarados, even with a Light Screen up after SR damage
3. Resists Shaymin-S Air Slash, making it a decent counter.
Why use it over Rotom Appliances?
1. More speed- outruns neutral base 90's like Porygon-Z and Roserade with a Scarf.
2. Surprise- again, how many expect this guy to be scarfed? (maybe a lot, I don't know)
3. He's actually cool- One of the coolest Pokemon in my opinion, and not a stupid piece of equipment
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I only tested it on Wifi, and did quite well.
Sorry metanite, but I'm going to have to critique this one pretty harshly. I've actually seen this exact rotom a few times on shoddy (you maybe?) and found it to be very underwhelming.
I don't think that sets completely useless. QA / SR / EQ / X-S may work with Sash, but it's been stated before... This sets not entirely new:
Rotom @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 6 HP
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power Ice
- Trick / Will-o-Wisp
Note: It's the REAL Rotom, no stupid lawnmower or refrigerator appliance (where's the vacuum one?). Just the cool plasmatic rain drop.
Yeah, I don't think it's new but there's no analysis set that explains it. Easy as lemon squeezy, it's a revenge killer mostly. You can also come in on Shaymin-S Earth Power or Air Slash (which 4HKOs), and kill with HP Ice. Thunderbolt kills ALL Gyarados, and even Togekiss after SR. 2HKOs every standard bulky water too. Shadow Ball clears the way of those pesky frail ghosts / psychics, and 2HKOs Dusknoir. Trick when Blissey comes in, or just burn that Tyranitar switch in.
Why use it over Gengar?
1. Surprise- how many would actually expect this? Are you kidding me? How does trick/scarf rotom have any surprise? Even in UU scarf-trick is one of the oldest rotom strategies in the book.
2. T-Bolt will kill every Gyarados, even with a Light Screen up after SR damageNot that impressed really.
3. Resists Shaymin-S Air Slash, making it a decent counter. Why not rotom appliance?
Why use it over Rotom Appliances?
1. More speed- outruns neutral base 90's like Porygon-Z and Roserade with a Scarf. Porygon-Z and Roserade are not exactly terrifying. Scarf P-Z already has a huge list of counters better than this guy. It's set up fodder for DD/boah ttar for example.
2. Surprise- again, how many expect this guy to be scarfed? (maybe a lot, I don't know)Everyone. How could you not expect it?
3. He's actually cool- One of the coolest Pokemon in my opinion, and not a stupid piece of equipmentNo one gives a damn?
---------------------------
I only tested it on Wifi, and did quite well. That's because Rotom is generally a good pokemon, and this is a generally good strategy. Still I fail to see it having much advantage over appliance, and I fail to see where this is creative.
I figured it wasn't that popular seeing as I've never seen one on Shoddy during my short time there. Plus it didn't have it's own analysis set so I figured it was "creative" enough to post. Generic revenge killer.
And Scarf-Z is quite terrifying late game with 135 SpA and a 160 BP move ;)
... I give a damn. Thanks for the comments, done quite well in UU. Sorry, didn't realize it was common. (this set was better before every other Ghost / Psychic type got Trick)
I agree with most of your comments though. Only good answer I have to "why not use appliance" is its not allowed in UU. Oh, and there's now appliances on wifi :)
(but then again there's no skymin to counter)
And Scarf-Z is quite terrifying late game with 135 SpA and a 160 BP move ;)
... I give a damn. Thanks for the comments, done quite well in UU. Sorry, didn't realize it was common. (this set was better before every other Ghost / Psychic type got Trick)
I agree with most of your comments though. Only good answer I have to "why not use appliance" is its not allowed in UU. Oh, and there's now appliances on wifi :)
(but then again there's no skymin to counter)
Ah no worries metanite. Yeah, rotom wins UU. It's a great poke, and this is a very good strategy. I didn't mean to be a jerk about it though, my bad. A while ago someone tried stick barb rotom too, which I thought was hilarious. Can work well though.
edit: FLygon and Scizor are much better late game sweepers, and since I usually have these at the end, Porygon-Z is not getting far . . .
edit: FLygon and Scizor are much better late game sweepers, and since I usually have these at the end, Porygon-Z is not getting far . . .
Torterra @ Leftovers
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 6 Attack
- Crunch
- Swords Dance
- Amnesia
- Substitute
This is a complete tank Torterra. The idea is to bring it out when you just put a pokemon to sleep. Do 1 or 2 Amnesias (however you feel about chancing it with a sleeping pokemon.) Then Substitute so that you get rid of any chance of obtaining a status condition. After the sub, use another amnesia so that you have either 2 or 3, this should stop Special Attacks really well. Just use Swords Dance and sweep. I KNOW that this will take many turns to work out, but it should work pretty well. The idea of the moveset is to utilize the already high HP and Defense, and improve on the Special Defense so it takes many hits and has sweeping power. Be as nice or as harsh as you want, I want all opinions!
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 6 Attack
- Crunch
- Swords Dance
- Amnesia
- Substitute
This is a complete tank Torterra. The idea is to bring it out when you just put a pokemon to sleep. Do 1 or 2 Amnesias (however you feel about chancing it with a sleeping pokemon.) Then Substitute so that you get rid of any chance of obtaining a status condition. After the sub, use another amnesia so that you have either 2 or 3, this should stop Special Attacks really well. Just use Swords Dance and sweep. I KNOW that this will take many turns to work out, but it should work pretty well. The idea of the moveset is to utilize the already high HP and Defense, and improve on the Special Defense so it takes many hits and has sweeping power. Be as nice or as harsh as you want, I want all opinions!
All the amnesia's in the world aren't helping him against Ice Beams, which is one of the most common moves in the game.
Thats what I'm worried about. If anything, it should get 2HKO at least, not OHKO with 3 amnesias. I'm not sure, I'm just guessing, I'm no expert on damage calculations.
I don't think that sets completely useless. QA / SR / EQ / X-S may work with Sash, but it's been stated before... This sets not entirely new:
Rotom @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 6 HP
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power Ice
- Trick / Will-o-Wisp
Note: It's the REAL Rotom, no stupid lawnmower or refrigerator appliance (where's the vacuum one?). Just the cool plasmatic rain drop.
Yeah, I don't think it's new but there's no analysis set that explains it. Easy as lemon squeezy, it's a revenge killer mostly. You can also come in on Shaymin-S Earth Power or Air Slash (which 4HKOs), and kill with HP Ice. Thunderbolt kills ALL Gyarados, and even Togekiss after SR. 2HKOs every standard bulky water too. Shadow Ball clears the way of those pesky frail ghosts / psychics, and 2HKOs Dusknoir. Trick when Blissey comes in, or just burn that Tyranitar switch in.
Why use it over Gengar?
1. Surprise- how many would actually expect this?
2. T-Bolt will kill every Gyarados, even with a Light Screen up after SR damage
3. Resists Shaymin-S Air Slash, making it a decent counter.
Why use it over Rotom Appliances?
1. More speed- outruns neutral base 90's like Porygon-Z and Roserade with a Scarf.
2. Surprise- again, how many expect this guy to be scarfed? (maybe a lot, I don't know)
3. He's actually cool- One of the coolest Pokemon in my opinion, and not a stupid piece of equipment
---------------------------
I only tested it on Wifi, and did quite well.
How many times have I said this, PUTTING A CHOICE ITEM ON A POKEMON DOES NOT MAKE IT A NEW MOVESET. (make sure you see that period)
and seriously, this set is pure fanboy stuff.
A set that can surprise people...
Porygon-Z @ Silk Scarf
Adamant
Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP
-Sharpen
-Last Resort
I ripped this from the mixed Z set that i saw Skiddle post in updates. If you can clear out ghosts and normal resists, it works pretty well. After the sharpen, Z has an attack of 426 and a 260 BP move to work with. Unfortunately, it can't take hits that well and cannot outrun all threats, so paralysis or screen support would be ideal. If it comes out late game it can clean up.
Calculations
+1 LR on:
0/252 Calm Blissey - OHKO
168/120 Careful Snorlax - 96-113%, OHKO w/SR
252/252 Bold Suicune - 65-77%, guaranteed 2HKO
252/220 Bold Zapdos - 82-102%, OHKO w/SR
252/220 Bold Celebi - 73-87%
Overall, it can 2HKO most walls.
Porygon-Z @ Silk Scarf
Adamant
Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP
-Sharpen
-Last Resort
I ripped this from the mixed Z set that i saw Skiddle post in updates. If you can clear out ghosts and normal resists, it works pretty well. After the sharpen, Z has an attack of 426 and a 260 BP move to work with. Unfortunately, it can't take hits that well and cannot outrun all threats, so paralysis or screen support would be ideal. If it comes out late game it can clean up.
Calculations
+1 LR on:
0/252 Calm Blissey - OHKO
168/120 Careful Snorlax - 96-113%, OHKO w/SR
252/252 Bold Suicune - 65-77%, guaranteed 2HKO
252/220 Bold Zapdos - 82-102%, OHKO w/SR
252/220 Bold Celebi - 73-87%
Overall, it can 2HKO most walls.
If you compare every creative late game sweeper ever posted in here to Bullet Punch Scizor, you might as well just reject all of those idea's.
I am sorry, I don't appear to have explained this properly. My computer was upset about something yesterday and was refusing to allow me to post a reply, so I had to Quick Reply instead.
The first piece of information that certain people appear to have missed is that this is supposed to be a bulky Pinsir lead, not a sweeper.
Nobody seems to see my reasoning behind Thief. Nicking an Azelf's Sash means that a) you can KO it next turn and b) it can't KO you next turn.
I thought I mentioned instead that you could put Knock off and an item on instead of Thief, but I must have forgotten to do so.
I was also going to suggest Quick Attack, Rain Dance, Sunny Day and Protect, but it completely slipped my mind. Apologies.
The whole point of this set is, Pinsir is not usually expected to lead, and when he does, he is usually a sort of quasi-sweeper looking for some sort of early KO. And that Pinsir's common moves are usually pretty effective against the most common leads, which are the examples used.
And Legacy Raider, I intend to test this as soon as possible. But I haven't yet, so you may be justified in your criticisms.
Thankyou for your patience.
Infernape
Silverback Gorilla
Move 1: Brick Break/Fire Punch
Move 2: Will-o-Wisp
Move 3: Slack Off
Move 4: Bulk Up
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Blaze
Nature: Impish/Jolly
EVs: 236 HP/20 Atk/252 Def (Impish) 236 HP/240 Def/32 Spd (Jolly)
Basically, nobody expects BulkApe, and why should they? Infernape's stats don't lend themselves to a defensive set, but its movepool does. It gets Slack Off, Will-o-Wisp and Bulk Up, among others. Those three are the support moves that I'm building this set around. Bulk Up and WoW will help with physical survivability as they build up this 'Ape's defense and cuts down opposing offense, respectively. Slack Off is for regaining HP. To ward off against Taunters, choose one STAB attack. 'Ape's stronger attacks have unwanted side effects, so choose from either Brick Break or Fire Punch. The former may whiff against Ghosts, but it breaks down Screens. The latter is Heatran bait and doesn't have a side-effect in the support game that WoW doesn't do better, but it'll hit more critters, even if it's just NVE.
ETA: Thanks to skiddle for the alternate nature/EV spread
Silverback Gorilla
Move 1: Brick Break/Fire Punch
Move 2: Will-o-Wisp
Move 3: Slack Off
Move 4: Bulk Up
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Blaze
Nature: Impish/Jolly
EVs: 236 HP/20 Atk/252 Def (Impish) 236 HP/240 Def/32 Spd (Jolly)
Basically, nobody expects BulkApe, and why should they? Infernape's stats don't lend themselves to a defensive set, but its movepool does. It gets Slack Off, Will-o-Wisp and Bulk Up, among others. Those three are the support moves that I'm building this set around. Bulk Up and WoW will help with physical survivability as they build up this 'Ape's defense and cuts down opposing offense, respectively. Slack Off is for regaining HP. To ward off against Taunters, choose one STAB attack. 'Ape's stronger attacks have unwanted side effects, so choose from either Brick Break or Fire Punch. The former may whiff against Ghosts, but it breaks down Screens. The latter is Heatran bait and doesn't have a side-effect in the support game that WoW doesn't do better, but it'll hit more critters, even if it's just NVE.
ETA: Thanks to skiddle for the alternate nature/EV spread
heh, I saw you post this on Serebii.
Anyways, it would be interesting to see some damage calculations after one Bulk Up. That Infernape could make a decent Scizor counter actually. Swords Danced Bullet Punch is like a 3HKO.
I would use a Jolly nature and have a bit of speed though, so you can like, outrun Lucario and Gliscor and kill / will o wisp them. 36 Speed EVs and a Jolly nature gives you 286 speed. An EV spread of 240 HP, 236 Def, 36 Spe is just about perfect.
Anyways, it would be interesting to see some damage calculations after one Bulk Up. That Infernape could make a decent Scizor counter actually. Swords Danced Bullet Punch is like a 3HKO.
I would use a Jolly nature and have a bit of speed though, so you can like, outrun Lucario and Gliscor and kill / will o wisp them. 36 Speed EVs and a Jolly nature gives you 286 speed. An EV spread of 240 HP, 236 Def, 36 Spe is just about perfect.
infernape isnt usaually a Bulk Ape becuase of it's kinda meh defenses, i think both are a base 71. So while your BU'ing they'll smash you with surf...so i say if you want to try something like this...
Infernape@ Leftovers
252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 Spe
Impish
-Sub
-Bulk Up
-Focus Punch/ brick break
-Shadow Claw/Earthquake/Blaze Kick/ slack Off
this way when you cause a swithc you cna sub and procceed to bulk up or focus punch. I almost made this set Lax so you could still utilise HP Ice to take down some flyers, however lax is a horrible nature. Focus Punch and shaodw Claw offer perfect coverage and hit everything for neutral. I havent tried it out, this is a fix for the one above. Have a nice day.
Oh and EQ is there for reliable power, Blaze Kick if you want double stab, and Slack Off if you feel the need for a recovery move.
Infernape@ Leftovers
252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 Spe
Impish
-Sub
-Bulk Up
-Focus Punch/ brick break
-Shadow Claw/Earthquake/Blaze Kick/ slack Off
this way when you cause a swithc you cna sub and procceed to bulk up or focus punch. I almost made this set Lax so you could still utilise HP Ice to take down some flyers, however lax is a horrible nature. Focus Punch and shaodw Claw offer perfect coverage and hit everything for neutral. I havent tried it out, this is a fix for the one above. Have a nice day.
Oh and EQ is there for reliable power, Blaze Kick if you want double stab, and Slack Off if you feel the need for a recovery move.
What can I say? I like spreading the word ;)
Which is where Slack Off comes in handy :)
236 HP EVs get you to the last Lefties recovery point before you go into overkill, at least according to the Serebii IV calculator. You raise a good point about Speed, but I'm not sure I want to come off of the Def+ nature due to 'Ape's mediocre base Defense. Bulk Up is still there though, so that's an option I suppose.
ETA: According to the IV calculator, 32 Speed EVs give you 286 Speed.
And once a special-based Water-attacker like Vaporeon or Starmie come in, I'm out like trout.
Which means that any water type at all could ruin a significant set-up.
The sub set posted above by kamikazeking05 has possibilities. It means that nothing can really come in for free, as you can still smack something really hard while you're hiding behind that sub before switching out.
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