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New and "creative" moveset/EV spread thread "Mark 2"

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Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Jolly Nature
252 hp / 6 def / 252 spe
- Counter
- Mirror Coat
- Endeavor
- Ice Shard

Starter or lead smeargle, counter and mirror coat will be sure to take out a few pokemon with smeargles terrible defenses, endeavor can be for a second turn where you lower the opponents hp to 1 and the ice shard will finish off all pokemon including ghosts.
not completley walled by ghosts since gengar will be sorted by mirror coat and spiritomb / dusknoir can be dealt with in the same way.
Focus sash leads (infernape / weaville) can be sorted with ice shard, this set will require a lot of prediction
 
smeargle has been used with endeavor but their usally lv 1, but the counter coat is a nice touch. Also maybe extremespeed or dragon rage could take the place of ice shard?
 
Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Jolly Nature
252 hp / 6 def / 252 spe
- Counter
- Mirror Coat
- Endeavor
- Ice Shard

Starter or lead smeargle, counter and mirror coat will be sure to take out a few pokemon with smeargles terrible defenses, endeavor can be for a second turn where you lower the opponents hp to 1 and the ice shard will finish off all pokemon including ghosts.
not completley walled by ghosts since gengar will be sorted by mirror coat and spiritomb / dusknoir can be dealt with in the same way.
Focus sash leads (infernape / weaville) can be sorted with ice shard, this set will require a lot of prediction

Why would you put in HP EV's when you're relying on a focus sash and countercoat? You might as well invest those into attack for Ice Shard. Also, Spiritomb is immune to countercoat, so that argument is invalid. Infernape and Weavile leads carry Fake Out, so this Smeargle will always lose to those leads.
 
This is creative all right.

Gengar@ Leftovers/Life Orb/Wide Lens
Sleepytime
Mean Look
Shadow Ball/Focus Punch
Hypnosis
Dream Eater
4HP, 252SpA, 252Speed
An interesting set geared towards the game's most powerful draining move, Dream Eater. Use Mean Look on something like Blissey coming in to intercept a Shadow Ball. Then spam off Hypnosis until it hits, and use Dream Eater to recover any residual damage. Mean Look will disallow Blissey's switching out, so Blissey is basically doomed. When Blissey is finally out of the way, you can sweep with Shadow Ball, or simply switch to something like Scizor to kill it with Pursuit.

You can use Focus Punch over Shadow Ball if your main priority is to get rid of Blissey, but Shadow Ball is recommended.
 
Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Adamant Nature
252 atk / 6 def / 252 spe
- Counter
- Mirror Coat
- Endeavor
- Extremespeed

extremespeed + STAB + max attack will do more damage and an adamant nature wont make much difference as smeargle should be going last
 
A special counter-breaker Infernape:

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Spr_4p_392.png

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Blaze Ape
@ Petaya Berry
Mild - Blaze
4 Atk, 252 SpA, 252 Spe

<ivs - 30,31,31,31,31,31>

- Substitute
- Fire Blast
- Grass Knot / HP Grass
- Close Combat
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This Infernape is designed to use its Blaze ability, along with a Petaya boost and a +SpA nature, to attempt to break past some of its usual counters and do sweep with an extremely powerful Fire Blast.

The premise of the set is simple. Simply Substitute down to 25% health to activate both your Blaze ability and Petaya Berry, effectively increasing the power of Infernape's Fire Blast by over double. With the sheer might of a Blaze Petaya Fire Blast, a specific Hidden Power is not required, as Infernape can beat past things like Salamence and Gyarados with Fire Blast alone.

Fire Blast is necessary as with Petaya and Blaze, its power is incredible (damage calcs at end). Grass Knot with the petaya boost allows Infernape to easily 2HKO any bulky waters that try and oppose it. Close Combat gives Ape a great way of dealing with Heatran, Blissey and Snorlax, who might mistake it for a fully special set after the seeing the Petaya Boost, only to be slaughtered by your STAB Fighting attack.

A Mild nature is necessary for its power boost, allowing Infernape to net some of those crucial O/2HKOs. The 30 HP IV is necessary for Infernape to have a HP score divisible by 4, giving it its Petaya boost after the 3rd Substitute.

EDIT: Thanks to MetaNite for suggesting HP Grass as an option over Grass Knot. Against Vaporeon, Grass Knot has a power of 60 (just missing out on the 2HKO), whereas HP Grass hits with a solid 70. It doesn't affect any other O/2HKOs all that much, and so is a viable option over Grass Knot. I've added some more calculations for HP Grass in the section below.

Damage calcs:

Code:
(all calculations with Infernape after Petaya and Blaze boost)

[B]---[/B]

Fire Blast vs 252/0 Zapdos - [b]117.4 - 138.5%[/b]
[COLOR="Red"]- OHKO.[/COLOR]

Fire Blast vs 252/40 Hippowdon - [b]122.1 - 143.8%[/b]
[COLOR="Red"]- OHKO.[/COLOR]

Fire Blast vs 252/0 Machamp - [b]123.4 - 145.3%[/b]
[COLOR="Red"]- OHKO.[/COLOR]

Fire Blast vs 252/56 Calm Cresselia - [b]64.4 - 75.9%[/b]
[COLOR="Red"]- Comfortable 2HKO (MixApe Flamethrower does 31% max)[/COLOR]

Fire Blast vs 4/0 Salamence - [b]75.0 - 88.3%[/b]
[COLOR="Red"]- OHKO with Stealth Rock.[/COLOR]

Fire Blast vs 4/0 Gyarados - [b]62.3 - 73.2%[/b]
[COLOR="Red"]- 2HKO.[/COLOR]

[B]---[/B]

Grass Knot vs 188/0 Vaporeon - [b]42.8 - 51.0%[/b]
[COLOR="Red"]- Shaky, but a 2HKO on average with SR (whereas Mixape struggles to 3HKO)[/COLOR]

Grass Knot vs 252/0 Suicune - [b]67.3 - 79.7%[/b]
[COLOR="Red"]- Easy 2HKO.[/COLOR]

Grass Knot vs 132/0 Starmie - [b]95.9 - 112.9%[/b]
[COLOR="Red"]- OHKO with SR.[/COLOR]

[B]---[/B]

HP Grass vs 188/0 Vaporeon - [b]50.4 - 59.4%[/b]
[COLOR="Red"]- Comfortable 2HKO.[/COLOR]

HP Grass vs 252/0 Suicune - [b]47.5 - 55.9%[/b]
[COLOR="Red"]- 2HKO with SR.[/COLOR]

HP Grass vs 132/0 Starmie - [b]84.4 - 99.3%[/b]
[COLOR="Red"]- 75% chance to OHKO with SR.[/COLOR]

[B]---[/B]

Close Combat vs 80/252 Blissey - [b]79.0 - 93.3%[/b]
[COLOR="Red"]- 44% to OHKO with SR, easy 2HKO.[/COLOR]

Close Combat vs 0/0 Heatran - [b]78.6 - 93.5%[/b]
[COLOR="Red"]- 38% chance to OHKO with SR.[/COLOR]

Close Combat vs 168/120 Snorlax - [b]62.5 - 74.0%[/b]
[COLOR="Red"]- 2HKO.[/COLOR]

I was originally going to have HP Rock in the second slot, and Grass Knot as another option in the fourth slot, but then I did some base power estimations:

- Resisted Petaya Blaze Fire Blast - 120 x 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.5 / 2 = 202
- Super effective HP Rock - 70 x 1.5 x 2 = 210

With Fire Blast's monstrous power, the need for a Hidden Power is greatly reduced, allowing Infernape to hit almost every opposing pokemon very very hard with just 3 moves.

Comments and criticisms please =).

LR.
 
Not liking the "almost OHKOs" on Blissey and Heatran, considering you are only at 1/4 of your health. I do like the OHKO on Zapdos, though.
 
This is creative all right.

Gengar@ Leftovers/Life Orb/Wide Lens
Sleepytime
Mean Look
Shadow Ball/Focus Punch
Hypnosis
Dream Eater
4HP, 252SpA, 252Speed
An interesting set geared towards the game's most powerful draining move, Dream Eater. Use Mean Look on something like Blissey coming in to intercept a Shadow Ball. Then spam off Hypnosis until it hits, and use Dream Eater to recover any residual damage. Mean Look will disallow Blissey's switching out, so Blissey is basically doomed. When Blissey is finally out of the way, you can sweep with Shadow Ball, or simply switch to something like Scizor to kill it with Pursuit.

You can use Focus Punch over Shadow Ball if your main priority is to get rid of Blissey, but Shadow Ball is recommended.

Modest 252 SpA Dream Eater vs 148/0 Bold Blissey: 17.73% - 20.78%

She will wake up, paralyze you and Softboiled until you run out of PP.
 
Not liking the "almost OHKOs" on Blissey and Heatran, considering you are only at 1/4 of your health. I do like the OHKO on Zapdos, though.

Sorry, but that is some of the worst advice I've heard in a while. What exactly do you want me to do about it? You tell me what you like and don't like, but not what can be done to help it.

You say that you are at 1/4 of your health when facing Blissey and Heatran. You will be using Close Combat against both of them, so it is not necessary for you to sub down to petaya and blaze. No one will be switching Blissey into an Infernape, and considering you outspeed it and will most likely be behind a sub, I don't see how it matters. Heatran, I agree, could be a bit of a problem since the scarf version outruns you, but if you have SR down and it has switched in at all earlier in the match, you KO with Close Combat.

Also, note that you are able to OHKO both Blissey and Heatran with a single switch into SR, it just isn't guaranteed.

Next time, if you are going to comment on someone's set, please make it a constructive comment or some criticism and then a way of fixing the problem. I'm sure the set's creators will appreciate that a lot more than what you 'like' and 'don't like'.

Thank you, and sorry if I caused any offense.

LR.
 
I used to always use subsalac np ape in dp, because with the +2 focus blasts/fireblasts, you outspeed important things like scarftran and starmie, while netting all the same kos and more. for instance, +2 blaze fireblast ohkos cress, +2 focus blast does like 80% to vaporeon, blaze fireblast does like 80% to gyarados, and so on and so forth. basically, by running fewer attacks and nasty plot, you have the ability to kill the same stuff, raise your speed, and even sweep when fighting a team that relies on twave cress or something to beat ape. basically np/focusblast > gk/cc

of course with the advent of priority in platinum he isnt as cool. also, petaya berry is useable if you really care that much about gyarados and vaporeon, but I find that the extra speed is much better, especially with sr cementing the ko on gyara and only a teeny bit of extra damage is needed for vap.

edit: oh this is all with timid btw, meaning after the salac boost you outspeed things like scarfzelf and deo-e (not important anymore)
 
I've used Mild Mix-ape for a while myself, and overall I just can't see it trying to stay in for a sweep. Sand Storm is going to be messing with your HP calcs too, and there's just so much stuff that outruns it I can't see it as a pokemon that would try to stay in for a sweep rather than go for hit and run.

LO Overheat is more powerful than pataya fire blast, and Mixed-Infernape can activate Blaze Naturally between LO, SR and sand storm damage. While its true that until Blaze activates, Overheat falls short of a lot of the calcs, the ability to hit and run and not invest a lot of your health is a huge plus. Plus, if you're at 1/4 health it's not like you are going to have that many shots at attacking anyway.

Yeah, overall I'd rather have LO Overheat and the ability to hit and run than try to stay in, give up 3/4 of my health, and then have to depend on the 85% accurate Fire Blast . Mild Mix-Ape with Overheat can also run the ATK evs to ensure the KOs on Blissey and Heatran too. Not to mention also getting to add HP Ice to its set and take down dragonite and nuetral natured salamences. Since you have tried this, you know that even they won't like taking LO Overheat, and are easily finished off with HP Ice even after the sp.ATK drop.
 
ehh in platinum there is too much priority for sub ape to be worth it, but back in dp, things like ddmence could wreak havoc after ape lured in and killed the bulky water, which is cool.

of course the best "anticounter ape" is indisputably wayff's cm ape.
 
Hey LR, if you drop the speed EVs down to 192, (330 Speed) you can get 64 Attack EVs, which allows you to OHKO Blissey 87% of the time with Stealth Rock, and Heatran 74% of the time. Pretty nice odds if you ask me. The only Pokemon who sit between 330 and 346 is like Mismagius, but she's very rare, and other Infernape.
 
Skid, Ape's running Mild in that set, not Naive. With 192 EVs it will be at 300, which, while isn't a bad number, is inferior to the the 315 that Infernape gets with max speed. I guess I could drop its speed down to 309 or 310 maybe, just to get that extra percentage chance to OHKO Blissey and Heatran, but I think max speed gives you that little bit more insurance when facing things like Zapdos and Mence.

LR.
 
Here's a lead Ambipom that I thought of:

Ambipom @ Life Orb
Jolly Nature
Technician
252 Attack/252 Speed/4 HP

~Thunder Wave
~Pursuit
~U-Turn
~Ice Punch/Brick Break

Okay now. When most people see a Pom, they think Fake Out. The goal of this is to predict that "Fake Out switch" to a Ghost, or Physical Wall. If you can predict well, TWavwe on the switch to status something that comes in. If you are lucky enough to get a Gar, TWave it, and then Pursuit, if you predict a switch out.
Ice Punch or BB, depending on what you fear more, Tran or Mence.
This set relies on predicting, and it's been very well to me in the past. Could come in as a late game sweeper as well.
 
actually is thing rash would be better on that ape to lower special defence instead of defense ape can survive a few ice shards and bullet punches more easily then.
 
Are you trying to tell me that surviving ice shards and bullet punches (which you still can, just not repeatedly but hey that's ape) is more important hands down than taking ice beams, grass knots and flamethrower? Rash certainly has its perks too, but in my opinion it's quite arguable. It should probably come down to its team mates.
 
119.png


Seaking @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 80 Spd / 178 SpAtk
Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Waterfall
- Rain Dance / Hidden Power Grass
- Hydro Pump
- Megahorn

Mix Seaking. At first the concept seems like a joke--but bear with me. 178 SpAtk EVs in the Rain guarantees a OHKO on 252 HP/0 Def Weezing with Life Orb Hydro Pump, with Stealth Rock support (this is important). 80 Speed EVs allow for 384 Speed in Rain, enough to outspeed Jolly Swellow by a point (and all nonscarfed UU pokes barring Electrode, and he's only seen as a lead). 252 Atk EVs generate 311 Atk; this coupled with Megahorn rapes stuff like Grumpig and Hypno. If you already have Rain Dance support, feel free to augment with Hidden Power Grass.

What does this do better than Mix Kabutops: access to Hydro Pump and Megahorn.

Of course, some damage calculations. All these assume Rain support.

Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP/0 SpDef Weezing: 89.82% - 105.99% (100% ohko with sr)
Hydro Pump vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Claydol: 117.28% - 138.89%
Megahorn vs 252 HP/56 Def Calm Hypno: 97.33% - 114.97%
Megahorn vs 252 HP/0 Def Grumpig: 114.84% - 135.71%
Hydro Pump vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Rotom: 91.12% - 107.57%
Megahorn vs 6 HP/0 Def Leafeon (current UU standard, going by statistics):86.76% - 102.21%
HP Grass vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Quagsire: 84.26% - 99.49% (33% chance to ohko w/sr)


As you can see, a lot of these become OHKO's after SR damage. Waterfall is mainly listed for a consistent STAB move. Sure Hydro Pump is a move with dubious accuracy; sure this set is walled by a lot of pokes--Altaria, Toxicroak, Venusaur-but the sheer surprise value and wall breaking potential cannot be ignored.

Thoughts/comments/criticisms?
 
hp grass is only doing 8% more to vaporeon not really worth it on that set. i would be concerced about taking down bulky ground types and getting that ohko on swampert too.
 
hp grass is only doing 8% more to vaporeon not really worth it on that set. i would be concerced about taking down bulky ground types and getting that ohko on swampert too.

8% is difference between 2HKO and 3HKO. You still KO all bulky grounds with Fire Blast, and completely rape swampert.

I must agree though, Nasty Plot is usually better. Only reason you may not use it is if you're determined to avoid status, via Substitute.
 
Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Jolly Nature
252 hp / 6 def / 252 spe
- Counter
- Mirror Coat
- Endeavor
- Ice Shard

Starter or lead smeargle, counter and mirror coat will be sure to take out a few pokemon with smeargles terrible defenses, endeavor can be for a second turn where you lower the opponents hp to 1 and the ice shard will finish off all pokemon including ghosts.
not completley walled by ghosts since gengar will be sorted by mirror coat and spiritomb / dusknoir can be dealt with in the same way.
Focus sash leads (infernape / weaville) can be sorted with ice shard, this set will require a lot of prediction

Or you could always go with the slightly less powerful, but much easier to predict Metal Burst.. while maintaining the ability to use Spore/another move.
 
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