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New and "creative" moveset/EV spread thread "Mark 2"

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Garganator said:
It's nothing original and not so creative, but I think it's worth a mention. And that set also helps with status, which can screw up badly Dragonite. It works similar to SubPetaya Empoleon. Just Agility on a switch and Substitute to activate Liechi Berry. It works as a late game sweeper and try to use it as late as possible. Just get rid of bulkier steels and Ice Shard users and it works fine. Here's the set.

'LiechiNite'
Nature: Adamant
EVs:252 Atk/56 Def/204 Spe -- 30 IVs
Item: Liechi Berry

Moveset:
~ Substitute
~ Outrage
~ Earthquake / Fire Punch
~ Agility

Advantage with this set against standard AgilityNite is that with Liechi Berry you hit impressive 606 Attack, which is more enough to go throuth most things in late-game sweep. With that set you have much stronger physical attack in a price of loosing one Special Attack. As you know Dragon/Ground gives you impressive coverage resisted only by Bronzong and Skarmory. Fire Punch in place of Earthquake fixes that problem if you're scared of them so much. Just pair it up with Magnezone and you're fine. 204 Speed help in outspeeding Choice Scarf 100 speed pokemon with positive nature. Rest of EVs went to Defence to help in taking some weaker priority attacks. Make sure to have 30 IVs to activate Liechi Berry with 25% HP left. Dragon Claw is an option in a place of Outrage, but Outrage gives you much more power.
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I'm a huge fan of Dragonite, and I've thought of a Subliechi set... but never with Agility! It looks like a great idea now, but Magnezone support is almost necessary or Steels like Scizor and Lucario will just priority you to death.

One question I have is the EVs. What are the defense ones for? I think they'd better be spent in HP, and also you might be able to drop the speed down a bit. However the set looks incredibly viable.
 
Essentially you are using a moveslot and an item slot to achieve a result that is less than 2 DDs (since you are only at +1 Atk). If Dragonite finds the time to use Agility and Sub then surely it can DD twice as well? I think if that set is to be at all viable then you should really run DD over Agility, as otherwise you will be extremely vulnerable at 25% health and simply not strong enough to beat everything with a +1 Outrage without taking any damage.

LR.
 
I agree about the vulnerability, but not the setting up. Let say you bring in Dragonite on the foe's CS Heatran who is now locked into Earth Power. You use Agility as the foe brings in their Cressalia. Then you use Substitute, as the foe tries to paralyze you and it fails of course.

Bring that same scenario into DDNite, and you have +2 attack but are paralyzed. You are risking being revenge killed, parahaxed, or Ice Beamed without the foe breaking a sweat. In addition, you don't have the luxory of moving EVs away from Speed. Alternatively, the foe switches in a ScarfMence (thinking you'd use EQ) but you end up using DD. You don't outspeed, and die to an Outrage.

If you had Agility, you'd outspeed and stall out for confusion with Sub (hopefully activating your berry) and can then Outrage the foe yourself. Easier to set up, it seems.

138 HP / 252 Atk / 120 Spe lets you outpace neutral natured base 100s holding CS, like Flygon or Salamance after an Agility. I don't know if that's better though. Haven't gotten to Shoddy yet, but I shall test it.
 
I'm a huge fan of Dragonite, and I've thought of a Subliechi set... but never with Agility! It looks like a great idea now, but Magnezone support is almost necessary or Steels like Scizor and Lucario will just priority you to death.

One question I have is the EVs. What are the defense ones for? I think they'd better be spent in HP, and also you might be able to drop the speed down a bit. However the set looks incredibly viable.
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I thought about difference between HP and Defence... both of them helps but I guess that standard HP is better choice after all. I guess you're right here after all.

Essentially you are using a moveslot and an item slot to achieve a result that is less than 2 DDs (since you are only at +1 Atk). If Dragonite finds the time to use Agility and Sub then surely it can DD twice as well? I think if that set is to be at all viable then you should really run DD over Agility, as otherwise you will be extremely vulnerable at 25% health and simply not strong enough to beat everything with a +1 Outrage without taking any damage.
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Well... Substitute + Agility gives you that advantage that you can still control situation a bit better. Nothing stops you from using first substitute and after that Agility. And with Agility you hit higher speed in one round which helps you much easier in activating Liechi Berry. Also you can defend itself from any nasty status with sub up. After one DD you're slower then things like ScarfHeracross or ScarfFlygon (and I think +Atk Nature is a must), so your sweep may never happen. And Dragon Dance being still the most popular Dragonite set (I don't know why to tell the truth) and when you use Dragonite in late-game, opponent may guess right about you being Dragon Dancer and just switch strong scarfer to get rid of that Dragonite. With Agility in situation like this you just sub up to that Liechi boost. And why not Dragon Dance ? There's one more reason - Salamence would outclass you completely with the same set, having much higher speed and Intimidiate, but Salamence will be slower then Dragonite anyway with DD in one round. Agility helps you hit speed, which Salamence can't hit in one round anyway. I wanted to create next set which helps Dragonite being different then Salamence (yeah, I like to use Dragonite alot, that's the reason). I tested it and it works fine, but without Magnezone it's hard to use. But thanks for your comments, I appreciate your help.


138 HP / 252 Atk / 120 Spe lets you outpace neutral natured base 100s holding CS, like Flygon or Salamance after an Agility. I don't know if that's better though.
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I guess that spread looks also fine, if you think that you don't need to outspeed posivite nature 100 speed Choice Scarf users ;).
 
kuja20 said:
I do not know if someone has posted something similar like this, but I this is a set I have used since I started competitive pokes back in July 2007, and has proved useful in my team even now.

Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Jolly Nature
44 HP/212 Atk/252 Spe

-Substitute
-Focus Punch
-Stone Edge
-Crunch

Very nice coverage for neutral damage and utilizes both of Tyranitar's STAB'd moves. Come in onto a threat that is sure to switch and set up a free substitute. As it happens, Focus Punch does exactly the same amount as Stone Edge to pokes that are not weak or resist to Rock and Fighting, therefore behind the sub, focus punch should be the move of choice.

The EVs allow Tyranitar to have a sufficient amount of Leftovers gain, at the cost of Attack EVS, the speed is maxed out, this will still surprise the odd Breloom or slower pokes.

Anyway tell me what you think, any ways I can improve it would also be appreciated.
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This is basically the Tyraniboah set in the analysis with less bulk and without the special moves.
 
Since Focus Punch goes last anyway and you're Subbing on the switch I'd max HP on your Tyranitar.

Arcticblast is wrong in that it's entirely different from TyraniBoah, in fact taht might actually be a good set as Steels that wall Rock / Dark get Focus Punched and you can do some nice damage to Hippowdon that way, though not a 2HKO.
 
Suicide Leads are always fun

Froslass @ Focus Sash
- Ice Beam
- Thunder Wave
- Spikes
- Destiny Bond
4 Hp / 252 spatk / 252 speed

Very simple lead. Thunderwaves basically anything to criple the opponent. Then put up spike layer or destiny bond. If its weak to ice might as well attack. Idea is less and less spinners are used in current metagame, so its always good to get spikes up first, even before SR. Just and idea.
 
Well, on the subject of lead sets, I found one that might prove useful?

Lead Raikou @ Light Clay/Leftovers
Timid
252 SpA/252 Speed/6 HP (this came to me on a whim, get over it)

Thunderbolt
Substitute
Thunder Wave
Reflect

With Deoxys-S gone from OU, the search for a fast, bulky utility lead continues. While Raikou does not learn Stealth Rock, it does pack double screen, 115 Special Attack and speed and respectable 90/75/100 defenses. Yes, I realize that this set does not pack double screen.

The idea is to Sub on the first turn while your opponent undoubtedly sets up and to protect from random Explosions later on, as in the top 10 OU leads, Raikou is only outsped by Aerodactyl (experiment with bulkier spreads to survive EQ, because obviously Aero will not enjoy STAB Thunderbolt) and random Scarfers but ties with the #1 lead, Azelf. Once Sub is up, Thunder Wave them into uselessness and set up your screen. As for the screens, Reflect is preferred.

Light Clay is there for the obvious prolonged screens, Focus Sash if you are cautious and do not want to risk a speed war against Azelf or against Aero in general.

Other options not mentioned is Roar, which can be used to scout your opponent's team and continue to cripple them, and Quick Attack to ruin Sashers after you T-bolt them. Roar is a lesser option due to its under-priority and there really isn't room for Quick Attack, as not all leads run Focus Sash and it's better to just use the core moves in the set. Light Screen is not as preferred due to the larger number and threat of physical leads and general physical attackers and Raikou's higher special defense that allows it to survive these moves.

Later in the game if Raikou isn't subtantially crippled by then, this can be used as anti-Scizor due to Bullet Punch resistance, and the other moves will bring it ruin.
 
The Raikou seems decent, but I really don't think that all those special attack EVs are really necessary. A bulkier spread would be better for a lead Raikou. Bad thing is that it can't prevent rocks from coming out.

Also, Focus Sash should be immediately ruled out of the options if you're using Substitute.
 
I edited out Focus Sash, it was mostly for things like Azelf and Aero, but I see your point. x_x;

I don't play OU, but someone could experiment with a bulky spread. As I mentioned, the EVs were made on a whim and it's going to kill what it needs to kill anyways.

It's quite a shame Raikou doesn't learn Taunt, I would expect it to, but at least in the meantime it can cripple the opponent early on and punish them for using slower leads.


Also expanded on other options and later game use.
 
CHOICE BAND Hypno

97.png


Hypno @ Choice Band
Nature: Adamant ( +Atk - Sp. Atk) or Gentle (+ SpD - Sp. Atk)

- Zen Headbutt / Psycho Cut
- Ice Punch / Fire Punch
- Thunder Punch / Fire Punch
- Focus Punch

EVs: 252 Atk / 40 HP / 216 SpD

Okay first of all, this is meant of UU. It doesn't pack enough power to compete on OU. But first of all, Hypno's attack is actually the same as its special attack. Also, many of Hypno's common switch ins are Clefable and other normals, or grass types.

Zen Headbutt is for STAB. If you prefer the critical hit chance of Psycho Cut, then it's a good option, too. Next, you should pick two elemental punches. The psuedo boltbeam combo of Ice Punch and Thunder Punch works well. Fire Punch is the least reccomended option, as Ice Punch covers grass types, and some Steel types take neutral damage, and you won't really break through their sky high defence anyways. If you want to hit bugs that aren't hit by any other move more, then you can use Fire Punch.

Finally, when you switch in Hypno, many will flee to their Clefable. So not expecting a FOCUS PUNCH WTF? they will get hit hard.

CB 252 Atk Adamant Hypno Focus Punch against 252HP, 252Def Bold Clefable = 82.49% - 96.95%!

That's against a MAX defence Clefable!


CB Hypno is a very unexpected, but still powerful Pokemon, and still has a good Special Defence stat to support the team by taking neutral hits in UU.
 
picklesword said:
Suicide Leads are always fun

Froslass @ Focus Sash
- Ice Beam
- Thunder Wave
- Spikes
- Destiny Bond
4 Hp / 252 spatk / 252 speed

Very simple lead. Thunderwaves basically anything to criple the opponent. Then put up spike layer or destiny bond. If its weak to ice might as well attack. Idea is less and less spinners are used in current metagame, so its always good to get spikes up first, even before SR. Just and idea.
Click to expand...

I use that but Taunt instead of T-wave to rpevent trick room, rain dance, sr, spikes, etc.
 
I'm under the impression that Hypno shouldn't be offensive except for NP-passing sets, least of all choiced. In all the time it takes to predict for kills, it could just as easily set up and support the rest of the team so your heavy sweepers will have an easier time killing the opponent.
 
Perhaps you don't realize the impact of taking out an important pokemon like Clefable so easily. In UU, Clefable is almost like a Blissey, and with it taken down it opens the door to your other sweepers. Yes, Hypno is very capable at supporting, but this offers another option that really offers some interesting and surprising offense.
 
But it's a waste of a team slot if you're running it solely for Clefable. Why not set up screens, Wish, etc. and bring in a choiced Hitmonlee or something to not only bring down Clefable, but perhaps the rest of the opponent's team? If you predict incorrectly, why give the opponent's "important Pokemon" like Claydol free turns? Because it completely walls three out of its four moves. And what if you're up against offensive Clefable, particularily physical ones (iirc they focus on Facade + Meteor Mash)? That Hypno is rendered even more useless.
 
I made a post in here a few days ago asking about my planned Metagross. I'm now raising it and have better specifics for it so that I can hopefully recieve better help. Here is my build for it:

Metagross @ Expert Belt
Adamant Nature (+Attack, -Special Attack)

EVs: 132 Speed/252 Attack/124 HP

Meteor Mash
Earthquake
Agility
Ice Punch/ThunderPunch

I am debating between Ice Punch and ThunderPunch for this build. Now, ThunderPunch is what is more commonly suggested but I don't understand the reasoning behind this. Skarmory is the first thing that comes to mind when I think of a reason to have ThunderPunch in a moveset together with Meteor Mash and Earthquake, but ThunderPunch lacks STAB and is Physical which would only be a 3 Hit KO on most Skarmory's. Due the fact that Skarmory can just Roar me away, I don't see much point.

I've been thinking Ice Punch is more worth it due to the fact that I can outspeed many Dragons once I get Agility going, but I'm not sure. Out-speeding Dragons and only having Skarmory to worry about seems like the better of the two to me. I've also considered if it's better to have Ice Punch and ThunderPunch, but dump Agility since Metagross can take Earthquakes from Dragons. Ice Punch is also a more unexpected choice since the page around here suggests ThunderPunch more so.

So, I'd like to hear from all of you... What's a better choice? Ice Punch or ThunderPunch?
 
TeaBag said:
Agiligross has been around for ages; it's hardly creative or new.
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My EV spread and the Ice Punch were the primary things I was interested in hearing about. I know Agiligross has been around for years, I'm just trying to take a different approach with it. Your post hardly does anything to answer my questions.
 
The EV spread has always been similiar, and Ice Punch has been around before but isn't the best option has Salamance gets hit hard enough with Meteor Mash.

ThunderPunch hits bulky waters who resist Meteor Mash, and Gyarados. You should have just asked in the Simple Questions thread.
 
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