• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

New and 'creative' moveset/EV spread thread Mk. 5

I fail to see why you would use that set over the standard lum berry lead-Metagross. You still lose to sleep leads and you can't KO shuca Heatran anyway. You can't prevent other leads from setting up SR nor you can set up your own entry hazards. That's just not useful as a lead, maybe it can be used as a revenge killer.
 
So i was thinking about how annoying Gliscor can be in the sand, and I wondered if there was a way to make it even MORE annoying, and thus:

Gliscor@BrightPowder
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 Hp / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Substitute
-Roost
-Toxic
-Earthquake

So yeah, its similar to the StallBreaker Gliscor, but w/ Substitute>Taunt. The reason being that even moves that are 100% accurate are hitting with the same accuracy Focus Blast, so if you outspeed, like in say....vaporeon, or Suicunes case, you can just play the hax and keep subbing until they miss, and once you have a sub up, roost and then repeat the process until they die from Toxic. and Earthquake is there to hit most of the steels/poison(lol) types that would otherwise screw this set over. The only main problems are Gengar and Bronzong/Skarmory.
 
Ok, no love as far as suggestions for the viability of my Spiritomb I see, however I have come bearing a list of most (if not all) of the impressive things it can do to the OU metagame and a small hint for all of you Machamp lead users.

For reference, here's the Attack Tier for Spiritomb assuming max luck.
For more info on Attack Tiers (I assume you already have seen this, but jic) showthread.php?t=25863 .
105.260556 Possible Shadow Ball OHKO Spiritomb
+ 7.27 for Super Effective = 112.530556
+ 14.55 for Ultra Effective = 119.810556


OU/BL Pokemon that are OHKO'd by Spiritomb:
Gengar (easy, this set was pretty much made with this guy in mind)
Frosslass (a really good pokemon to hypnotize considering you have 2 shots at getting it off with Ice Beam only doing ~45% damage)
Azelf (Poses no threat to spiritomb simply by the fact that he eliminates so much of her movepool and fires back with a OHKO move. Even the special attack flamethrower does <50%)

OU/BL Pokemon that are 2HKO'd by Spiritomb
Gallade (Takes you down to ~50% after Swords Dance, note that this set survives 2 Dances and SR Damage, meaning that you can switch in on the first dance and still have a guaranteed 2HKO albeit with a very small chance of survival past that)
Rotoms (For the sake of simplicity, this only deals with -F. Spiritomb switches in to take the trick if you get lucky enough. However, watch out for his other moves as choice specs overheat 2HKO's you just barely)
Dusknoir (WoW doesn't affect you, and Earthquake barely scratches you)
Celebi (If Celebi seeds you turn 1, you can't kill her with spiritomb barring hypnosis->switch, other than that there's nothing to fear)
Bronzong (One of the few pokemon Spiritomb outspeeds. He really can't do much of anything to you including explode one of your other pokes)
Breloom (Make sure you don't get spored so it's unexpected when you switch in on the punch. Past that, seed bomb will do ~40% Damage, and breloom always moves first meaning you will want to shadow ball the sub, pain split if you were at full health hypnosis if not, and go for the KO)
Infernape (Spiritomb generally scares away infernapes)
Mamoswine (You can switch in on Ice Fang/Shard, but Stone Edge does ~50% and Earthquake ~75, so if you don't have a sleep left or there are pokes more worthwhile for the 'tomb to counter it's best to not depend too heavily on him. Of course, superpower constitutes a free switch)
Yanmega (poses absolutely no threat whatsoever, feel free to heal up against full health leadmega as he only does ~15% damage before lefties)
Tyranitar (HP Fighting) (Even locked into stone edge, T-tar is leaving Spiritomb with 13% HP assuming you don't have a sleep left)
Ambipom (HP Fighting) (Walled in huge ways)

Now for the machamp tip. If you see people not using statuses you may think your lum berry is doing it's job by stopping sleep leads, however imagine how your opponent will react once they find out that that isn't even the item you're holding! Sitrus Berry does just that and allows you to survive meteor mash and DynamicPunch->DynamicPunch->Bullet Punch just barely kills lead metagross. It also allows greater survivability against lead jirachi because you survive a third Iron Head allowing you a greater margin of error to 2HKO with DynamicPunch. This doesn't get rid of all the counters because Skarm says hello with her brave bird.
The problems that this lead runs into most are stupid people not checking smogon and chosing to WoW or Spore when such a move would normally not even affect machamp.
 
i_yukimenoko.gif

Froslass (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 64 HP/252 Def/184 Spd/8 SDef
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Trick
- Taunt
- Spikes
---

I heard about a bulky spread for ScarfLass mentioned somewhere, but I couldn't find the source. I created the spread myself so this set could function as a lead, but it's actually very convenient. Max Defense alone its own allows Froslass to survive LeadChamp's Payback 100% of the time while 184 Speed places Froslass two points above MixApe (yeah I know that number's near useless, but most Gengar tend to Shadow Ball me or switch out at the risk of losing a Speed tie). The HP EVs allow Froslass to switch into SR 5 and the remaining EVs went into SDef since Ice Beam doesn't need that extra power (it already OHKOes LeadDragonite which IMO, is the only reason to use it).

As for the moveset, I decided against Destiny Bond since Froslass can take a hit from Swampert - Earthquake, in fact, 3HKOes - and ran Taunt for a while. It was much better in preventing the occasional BP chains and reduced a shitload of prediction when it came to Smeargle, Uxie, and Roserade. I usually manage to get up at least one layer Spikes against the likes of Machamp, Aerodactyl, and Azelf, but even if Froslass dies before Spikes go up, it at least crippled something useful with a Scarf which helps give me a bit of momentum; because anything locked into a single, non-Outrage, move is much easier to deal with.

As far as SRing partners go, I tend to find myself using Shucatran in order to take on Machamp locked into Payback, Metagross locked into Meteor Mash, Roserade, Dragonite (if for some reason it's running more bulk), and just about any other lead that Froslass has trouble against.
 
BulkyDance Lucario

We all know what it's like to play with SD Luke : this thing isn't getting past Gliscor and Hippowdon anytime soon. Both of these pokemon share the same way of taking Lucario out : OHKO with STAB Earthquake before it can OHKO them. From this point, I thaught : how could we screw over their plan? Simple : invest in Defense!



Lucario @ Life Orb

Nature : Adamant
EVs : 144 HP / 96 Atk / 252 Def / 16 Spe

Moveset :

Swords Dance
Close Combat
Extremespeed
Ice Punch

The goal for this Lucario is to beat its common counters Gliscor and Hippowdon (and, to a lesser extent, Swampert). The idea is to come in with Wish support, or in place of a fainted Pokemon (because Lucario needs to be in excellent health for this, and even with the defensive investment, it's still not the best at taking hits), and to use Swords Dance as Hippowdon/Gliscor switches in. Then imagine their pain as their STAB Eathquake is unable to OHKO you, and you OHKO their Gliscor back with Ice Punch, or Swords Dance again in the face of their Hippowdon...
The EVs are tailored to generate maximum physical bulkiness while retaining the Speed to outspeed Agility Empoleon and everything slower (which includes most walls) and the power to ensure that a +4 Close Combat always OHKOes even the most defensive Hippowdon. Maybe shifting more EVs from HP into speed would be useful, to outspeed Jolly Ttar and defensive Zapdos that sit at 244 Speed, but these HP EVs are precious since Lucario wants to be able to pull off a few attacks after taking an EQ, before it is killed off by LO damage.

Here are a few calculations :

0 Atk EVs Jolly Gliscor uses EQ : 64.35%~76.34%
0 Atk EVs Impish Hippowdon uses EQ : 74.44%~87.69%
0 Atk EVs Impish Swampert uses EQ : 72.55%~85.80%
0 SpA EVs Neutral Nature Zapdos uses Heat Wave : 73.81%~87.06%
252 Atk Evs Jolly Scarfgon uses EQ : 85.17%~100.94% (unable to revenge kill on average, should it survive a +2 Extremespeed)

As you can see, none of these common Lucario counters (besides Flygon, which is more of a revenge killer, and who never switches into Luke anyway) are able to hit it for over 90 % of its health, letting Lucario beat them.
Stealth Rock is CRITICAL to this set's success. It secures the OHKO on many threats (like Infernape) which would not have been possible otherwise, due to the reduced damage output compared to the normal Swords Dancer. This Lucario does not like entry hazards at all either, so using a lead that can set up Stealth Rock while preventing the opponent from setting up his own entry hazards, like Azelf or Aerodactyl, is recommended.
However, this Lucario is totally unable to get past Rotom-A. This makes Jolly Choice Band Tyranitar an ideal partner : it can come nearly for free on Rotom's Overheat, and checkmate it with Pursuit. Since it outspeeds defensive Rotom-A, and hits it for over 50% even if it doesn not switch, hitting it constantly with Pursuit will always work, even if the plasma ghosts burns it. Scarf / Specs variants are even easier to take care of. In addition, BulkyDance Lucario lures in and eliminates Gliscor and Hippowdon, two of Tyranitar's greatest counters. With them out of the way, nothing stands in the way of Choice Band T-tar's massively powerful Stone Edge, letting it tear what remains of the opposing team to pieces.
If you are looking for an original sweeper, that can surprise your opponent, and open the way for other physical sweepers, BulkyDance Lucario is the way to go. Who doesn't like to score surprise OHKOes on a confident opponent?


Thank you, THANK YOU if you read this till the very end. All of this is theoretical, since I haven't tested this guy yet (and won't be able to do it anytime soon) but on paper it seems to work quite well, and most importantly, to be tons of fun to use! Go ahead and test it!
 
@ dracoloss
IF you are planning to pull of a second swords dance, is there any actual point in Life orb?
I'm worried about any SE attacks taking him to the point after entry hazard damage whereby recoil damage will instantly kill him as well. Have you considered running something like Petaya/Liechi? I like the creativity of the concept but just worry about its longevity.
 
Lucario just needs the power to OHKO Hippo with a +4 CC. Even if all it does is KO its counter and severely damage/KO another poke, another physical sweeper will then have free reign.
Besides, against Gliscor, the most common of its counters, Lucario can use up to 3 more attacks after it has KOed Gliscor.
 
I think Shuca Lucario would probably be a little more effective. It halves EQ damage from Gliscor and Hippowdon, allowing you a free turn. Still, though, you lose Life Orb and you're forced to run Ice Punch, meaning other stuff walls you.

I'd say that if you want to sweep with Lucario, handle its counters in your team.
 
Muscle Band alone guarantees the OHKO on Hippowdon with a +4 Close Combat, so I think it is the superior option.

@ greg3064: The main problem with that is Hippowdon/Gliscor have reliable recovery, so they can heal up and then come back later to deal with Lucario. This set allows you to take care of them, and then let another Pokemon sweep.
 
Well, that Lucario still does virtually nothing to Rotom, Gyarados, and Zapdos (maybe take a hit from them but it's not doing much in return, and with Life Orb recoil it can't take a hit and hope to sweep). Those are all more common than Hippowdon and Gliscor, I believe.
 
Hey all,

473.png

TrickBand
Alright, alright. DON'T LAUGH. I've done a bit of playtesting using a Choice Band + Trick Togekiss and it really does work great. He's designed to open up holes for his team mates to sweep in, since he shares many of the same counters as things like Suicune and the majority of special attackers.

@Choice Band -Serene Grace
-Trick
-Fire Blast/Flamethrower/other
-Aura Sphere/other
-Air Slash/other

There's a reason I haven't put in a nature or EV's. Only the bolded part is necessary (duh). This togekiss should be customised to beat anything you're having trouble with. This set has attacking options, so you could run Modest or Timid for good coverage, but you run into problems against Gyarados, Dragonite, and Snorlax.
This Togekiss could also run Reflect, Light Screen, Heal Bell, Safeguard, ThunderWave, Wish, various useful Hidden Powers, Shadow Ball for Rotom-A and Gengar, etc etc.
So you get an idea of Togekiss' usual counters, I'll list some of the ones which come to mind. Blissey, Rotom-A, Zapdos, Dragonite, Lanturn, Cresselia, Electivire, Jolteon, Gyarados are the best generally, and will be by far the most common switchins to a Togekiss.
Blissey, Rotom-A, Zapdos, Lanturn, Cresselia, Jolteon, Electivire (since it relies on coverage rather than power) are all crippled by Choice Band. Meanwhile, Dragonite and Gyarados are both crippled by Thunderwave if it is run, or can be respectively OHKO'd. Neither of them particularly like Choice Band either, both being more powerful but overall less dangerous.
With your opponents main special walls rendered much less useful, now is your time to sweep.
While Choice Band is barely more crippling to Blissey and Cresselia than a Scarf, Zapdos, Rotom and other counters mentioned above don't mind a Scarf much, while being debilitated by a Choice Band.
 
alix13 said:
Meanwhile, Dragonite and Gyarados are both crippled by Thunderwave if it is run, or can be respectively OHKO'd. Neither of them particularly like Choice Band either, both being more powerful but overall less dangerous.
Click to expand...

On the contrary, usually a Gyrados goes on the offensive after a single DD, so it really won't mind recieving a Choice Band to boost it's Waterfalls at +1. Besides, you wouldn't want to try to switch this thing into Gyrados anyway. Taunt builds wreck it.

Also, you lose this to Banded Dragonite, which I have noticed is recieving a fair bit of use.
 
alix13 said:
Hey all,

473.png

TrickBand
Alright, alright. DON'T LAUGH. I've done a bit of playtesting using a Choice Band + Trick Togekiss and it really does work great. He's designed to open up holes for his team mates to sweep in, since he shares many of the same counters as things like Suicune and the majority of special attackers.

@Choice Band -Serene Grace
-Trick
-Fire Blast/Flamethrower/other
-Aura Sphere/other
-Air Slash/other

There's a reason I haven't put in a nature or EV's. Only the bolded part is necessary (duh). This togekiss should be customised to beat anything you're having trouble with. This set has attacking options, so you could run Modest or Timid for good coverage, but you run into problems against Gyarados, Dragonite, and Snorlax.
This Togekiss could also run Reflect, Light Screen, Heal Bell, Safeguard, ThunderWave, Wish, various useful Hidden Powers, Shadow Ball for Rotom-A and Gengar, etc etc.
So you get an idea of Togekiss' usual counters, I'll list some of the ones which come to mind. Blissey, Rotom-A, Zapdos, Dragonite, Lanturn, Cresselia, Electivire, Jolteon, Gyarados are the best generally, and will be by far the most common switchins to a Togekiss.
Blissey, Rotom-A, Zapdos, Lanturn, Cresselia, Jolteon, Electivire (since it relies on coverage rather than power) are all crippled by Choice Band. Meanwhile, Dragonite and Gyarados are both crippled by Thunderwave if it is run, or can be respectively OHKO'd. Neither of them particularly like Choice Band either, both being more powerful but overall less dangerous.
With your opponents main special walls rendered much less useful, now is your time to sweep.
While Choice Band is barely more crippling to Blissey and Cresselia than a Scarf, Zapdos, Rotom and other counters mentioned above don't mind a Scarf much, while being debilitated by a Choice Band.
Click to expand...

A gimmick at best, however I do see this potentially having its uses.
But, why is Choice BAND such a necessity? Why not Specs so it could still be useful before it's Tricked it away?
 
Yep, fair enough Colonel sir.
I never blindly Tricked until I'd done some scouting, but those two are the main problem pokemon.
I'd still say that a non-CB Dragonite and DD Gyarados would prefer not to have Cband, since it does make them a lot easier to stop (even if you might lose a pokemon:( depending on what move they're locked into.

Would it be worth running Thunderwave or HP Ice just to help with these two? The problem is that Dragonite speed ties (although Adamant is more common on CB variants) and Gyarados has 81 base speed to Togekiss 80.

Ericcc, Choice specs is very viable, but it doesn't work as well at crippling Tog's counters as this one. Specs still hurts Blissey and Cresselia, and does get Gyarados, but again things like Rotom-A and Zapdos, which are probably the most common switches (since a Heal Bell Kiss can often beat Blissey) don't mind being Tricked a Specs.

To be fair, I personally wouldn't say this is OVERALL more effective than the Scarf or Specs sets. It gets me lots of easy wins, and a few cheap losses, and for that reason I still think its valuable if you give it the right team support (Suicune with HP Electric are good for taking down Gyarados, Jirachi for Dragonite for instance).
 
alix13 said:
Yep, fair enough Colonel sir.
I never blindly Tricked until I'd done some scouting, but those two are the main problem pokemon.
I'd still say that a non-CB Dragonite and DD Gyarados would prefer not to have Cband, since it does make them a lot easier to stop (even if you might lose a pokemon:( depending on what move they're locked into.

Would it be worth running Thunderwave or HP Ice just to help with these two? The problem is that Dragonite speed ties (although Adamant is more common on CB variants) and Gyarados has 81 base speed to Togekiss 80.
Click to expand...

True, you would heavily restrict them, but if they are a setup variant, I really don't think it would stop them completely if they were Tricked a Band. It just means that they would be lacking in speed the next time they came in, but still hit every bit as hard. I would heavily reccomend a decent physical wall to sponge their retaliation strikes after Togekiss does his job.

I am quite hesitant about running Thunderwave on that Kiss. You already might have to switch often being un-Scarfed and a faster threat comes in, and Stealth Rock isn't going to be doing Kiss any favors. However, yours does seem to be built more as a sweeper, and a supporting Tricker can really be of use (Come in mid-late game, Trick a Band to a wall that expects FlinchKiss, help support and set up an endgame sweeper) with a moveset overhaul to take advantage of Thunderwave, especially if you have a slower sweeper that can abuse a locked Blissey.

By the way, Gyrados would still soft-counter the set if it were a supporting one so long as it is a Bulkydos or a Taunt variant. Outspeeds after one DD (Which nearly every Gyrados will do on it's first turn out.) since you chose to run Band over Scarf, so you must be very careful/carry a counter to it.
 
alix13 said:
Hey all,

473.png

TrickBand
Alright, alright. DON'T LAUGH. I've done a bit of playtesting using a Choice Band + Trick Togekiss and it really does work great. He's designed to open up holes for his team mates to sweep in, since he shares many of the same counters as things like Suicune and the majority of special attackers.

@Choice Band -Serene Grace
-Trick
-Fire Blast/Flamethrower/other
-Aura Sphere/other
-Air Slash/other

There's a reason I haven't put in a nature or EV's. Only the bolded part is necessary (duh). This togekiss should be customised to beat anything you're having trouble with. This set has attacking options, so you could run Modest or Timid for good coverage, but you run into problems against Gyarados, Dragonite, and Snorlax.
This Togekiss could also run Reflect, Light Screen, Heal Bell, Safeguard, ThunderWave, Wish, various useful Hidden Powers, Shadow Ball for Rotom-A and Gengar, etc etc.
So you get an idea of Togekiss' usual counters, I'll list some of the ones which come to mind. Blissey, Rotom-A, Zapdos, Dragonite, Lanturn, Cresselia, Electivire, Jolteon, Gyarados are the best generally, and will be by far the most common switchins to a Togekiss.
Blissey, Rotom-A, Zapdos, Lanturn, Cresselia, Jolteon, Electivire (since it relies on coverage rather than power) are all crippled by Choice Band. Meanwhile, Dragonite and Gyarados are both crippled by Thunderwave if it is run, or can be respectively OHKO'd. Neither of them particularly like Choice Band either, both being more powerful but overall less dangerous.
With your opponents main special walls rendered much less useful, now is your time to sweep.
While Choice Band is barely more crippling to Blissey and Cresselia than a Scarf, Zapdos, Rotom and other counters mentioned above don't mind a Scarf much, while being debilitated by a Choice Band.
Click to expand...

I am not completely sold on this concept, but I think it would work better with a different pokemon. For example, Porygon2 and Porygon-z both get Trick, draw out special walls, can play support roles, and, most importantly, have the ability to use the Choice Band before they trick it away. For example, with Download instead of Trace or Adaptability, they have a decent chance to get an Attack boost, giving them two stacked 50% attack boosts for a multiplier of 2.25 (more than simply +2 attack) and a final Attack stat of 639 with no set up and max attack. This actually gives you a chance to OHKO Blissey with Return after stealth rock or spikes, doing 75.4%-88.8%. Both also get BoltBeam for better coverage if you want to use their Special Attack stats after you trick, Thunderwave and Toxic to cripple switch-ins, and Discharge if you want to try for both.

Admittedly, the Pory's do not have precisely the same counters as Togekiss, but the idea is the same, and they have a usable physical attack stat (if not movepools :/) to abuse the Choice Band before you trick it away. Porygon-z notably has better speed and special attack than Togekiss, too, though neither are as bulky as Togekiss.

Something to consider.
 
Coldcut said:
Admittedly, the Pory's do not have precisely the same counters as Togekiss, but the idea is the same, and they have a usable physical attack stat (if not movepools :/) to abuse the Choice Band before you trick it away. Porygon-z notably has better speed and special attack than Togekiss, too, though neither are as bulky as Togekiss.

Something to consider.
Click to expand...

Not to mention that Porygon-Z attracts Blissey like the plague.
 
Why don't you give togekiss Hustle and Extreme Speed? It is more powerful than Dragonite's, thanks to STAB. I am not sure exactly on the moves, but it would make a decent revenge killer and can also cripple switch ins with Trick. Using Trick Choice Band on Porygon is a very bad idea because Tyranitar and Scizor will pulverize you more often than before.
 
MetaNite said:
Why don't you give togekiss Hustle and Extreme Speed? It is more powerful than Dragonite's, thanks to STAB. I am not sure exactly on the moves, but it would make a decent revenge killer and can also cripple switch ins with Trick. Using Trick Choice Band on Porygon is a very bad idea because Tyranitar and Scizor will pulverize you more often than before.
Click to expand...

True.
If your Band gets switched over to them, and they're stuck on an attack move, both Porygon-Z or Togekiss are going to get [maybe?] OHKO'd.
However, at least Togekiss has Aura Sphere to compensate for this weakness, while the best Porygon-Z can do is HP Ground, if it even has it.
Togekiss is the better option in any case, in my opinion.
 
Ericcc said:
True.
If your Band gets switched over to them, and they're stuck on an attack move, both Porygon-Z or Togekiss are going to get [maybe?] OHKO'd.
However, at least Togekiss has Aura Sphere to compensate for this weakness, while the best Porygon-Z can do is HP Ground, if it even has it.
Togekiss is the better option in any case, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

There is HP Fighting for Porygon-z, but in a Sandstorm it can't even come close to a OHKO. Togekiss' Aura Sphere has a chance to OHKO with Stealth Rock, but not much. The Hustle idea is interesting, since you will have more attack than a +1 Kingdra with your Choice Band. If you wanted to actually attack with it before you tricked it away, you might go with this:

Togekiss @ Choice Band
252 Atk / maybe some speed / maybe some HP / maybe some defenses
Hustle
Adamant
Trick
Extremespeed
Brick Break
Zen Headbutt / Filler

Extremespeed is for revenge killing, and is actually the second most powerful physical attack Togekiss gets (I'm not counting Giga Impact, Double edge, or Sky Attack). Brick Break easily OHKO's Ttar and 2HKO's Blissey after Leftovers twice (after first attack, then while it Protects). You do only have a 64% chance of hitting twice though.

Zen headbutt can be used to hit Ghosts, OHKOing Gengar, 2HKOing offensive Rotom-A versions, but is hopeless against defensive versions. But with Togekiss' lackluster speed, you won't be getting the 20% flinch rate very often (yes, no Serene Grace means only 20%).
 
Coldcut said:
There is HP Fighting for Porygon-z, but in a Sandstorm it can't even come close to a OHKO. Togekiss' Aura Sphere has a chance to OHKO with Stealth Rock, but not much. The Hustle idea is interesting, since you will have more attack than a +1 Kingdra with your Choice Band. If you wanted to actually attack with it before you tricked it away, you might go with this:

Togekiss @ Choice Band
252 Atk / maybe some speed / maybe some HP / maybe some defenses
Hustle
Adamant
Trick
Extremespeed
Brick Break
Zen Headbutt / Filler

Extremespeed is for revenge killing, and is actually the second most powerful physical attack Togekiss gets (I'm not counting Giga Impact, Double edge, or Sky Attack). Brick Break easily OHKO's Ttar and 2HKO's Blissey after Leftovers twice (after first attack, then while it Protects). You do only have a 64% chance of hitting twice though.

Zen headbutt can be used to hit Ghosts, OHKOing Gengar, 2HKOing offensive Rotom-A versions, but is hopeless against defensive versions. But with Togekiss' lackluster speed, you won't be getting the 20% flinch rate very often (yes, no Serene Grace means only 20%).
Click to expand...

Enough speed EV's to outrun Jolly Tar, any extra in HP for some bulk, and you're good to go with this set.
Seems interesting...
 
you need 192 EVs in speed @ adamant to be faster than jolly max speed Ttar.

and you might want to put aerial ace as another move over zen headbutt if the set is meant to be purely physical. hustle boost without the acc loss, STAB, and gets perfect coverage with brickbreak over everyone except Zapdos and Rotom-A (but why would a togekiss even try to take them out by itself?).
 
Aerial Ace lacks raw power. You wouldn't even dent specially defensive Celebi/Shaymin with that, while you would have a sporting chance if you used Air Slash against physically defensive Shaymin/Celebi because of the flinch.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top