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New mixed Electivire set

This is a great idea--good job!

When I saw your moveset, I thought maybe magmortar could use the same thing:

467-3.png


Magmortar @ Life Orb
Hasty Nature
252 Sp. Atk / 180 Spd / 76 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power Ice/Grass
- Thunderbolt
- Cross Chop

It's pretty much the same moveset, except fire blast > flamethrower. With hasty nature and this EV spread, magmortar is nearly an exact copy of electivire (stat wise). They have the exact same HP, Defense, and Speed. The only differences are that Electivire has higher attack, while Magmortar has higher special attack. Magmortar has slightly higher special defense as well. But of course, Electivire has a much better ability and better typing. Also, blissey will be more likely to switch into this.

HP Grass on Swampert: 111.39% - 131.19% (404 HP, 137 SpDef)

HP Grass on Rhyperior: 97.47% - 114.75% (434 HP, 146 SpDef)

Sandstorm and Solid Rock included.

HP Ice on Rhyperior: 72.58% - 85.48% (434 HP, 146 SpDef)

Solid Rock included.

HP Grass/Ice on Donphan: 76.82% - 90.36% (384 HP, 156 SpDef)

HP Grass/Ice on Hippowdon: 60.95% - 71.90% (420 HP, 180 SpDef)

Fire Blast on Tangrowth: 212.38% - 249.75% (404 HP, 137 SpDef)

Fire Blast on Bronzong (mixed): 110.95% - 130.47% (338 HP, 317 SpDef)

As you can see, Magmortar does a lot more damage to Bronzong.

Fire Blast on Bronzong (no SpDef): 130.18% - 153.25% (338 HP, 269 SpDef)

Fire Blast on Skarmory: 200.30% - 235.63% (334 HP, 176 SpDef)

Cross Chop on Blissey: 49.58% - 58.40% (714 HP, 130 Def)

Unfortunately, magmortar has lower attack, but can still 2HKO blissey.

Fire Blast on Blissey: 27.03% - 31.79% (714 HP, 307 Sp. Def)

If blissey switches into Fire Blast, and with Stealth Rock support, Cross Chop can possibly kill blissey in one shot.

HP Ice on Salamence: 130.75% - 153.74% (361 HP, 196 SpDef)

HP Ice on Garchomp: 125.42% - 147.49% (358 HP, 206 SpDef)

Thunderbolt on Suicune: 58.17% - 68.32 (404 HP, 267 SpDef)

Thunderbolt on Suicune (1 Calm Mind): 39.11% - 46.04% (404 HP, 267 SpDef, 1 CM)

Thunderbolt on Slowbro: 82.60% - 97.40% (385 HP, 196 SpDef)

Thunderbolt on Slowbro(1 Calm Mind): 55.58% - 65.19% 385 HP, 196 SpDef, 1 CM)
​
 
this is interesting because i've been thinking about adding Flamethrower to my 'Vire to at least stop it being walled by tangrowth. So i'm in favor of this new set...especially because the standard set has some easy wall options.

I dont' really like Life Orb though as if you run into a wall (esp Cresselia) you can end up really hurting yourself. So i really prefer expert belt on 'Vire.

Though, at least at first, maybe HP Grass would be more effective on this set. Yes you NEED Ice Punch/HP Ice to not get killed/set up on by garchomp, but what garchomp/anything weak to ice switches into 'Vire? For this reason the element of surprise could easily KO a pokemon the opponent thinks is going to wall 'vire. At least if you make sure you have some other pokemon that can deal with these dragons, of course.

It may also be a decent option to not go as special with the set keeping Ice Punch and even Thunderpunch...which seems to be almost unexpected now.

Earthquake over Cross Chop could also be used if you were feeling ballsy. Obviously you would then get screwed by blissey, but who switches in blissey against electivire. EQ doesn't give you tooo much more type coverage than cross chop but you get a 100% accuracy and SE attack against any electric (Raikou, other Electivires) or rock type....you also can hit special defense based jirachi, heatproof bronzong (if you run into it?), if they somehow bother you.

Interestingly enough Electivire kind of walls this special based set....can come in on anything but cross chop, and hits you with EQ if its faster...i suppose you switch out but life orb/stealth rock/spikes damage really racks up....and your only way to counter 'vires (or any electric) is with an 80% accurate move.

overall great analysis by you.
 
DEL337ED said:
The thing with choop's set is that HP Grass could be replaced with HP Ice for ground coverage (+dragons), making Ice Punch not needed. It does significantly less with the EV-spread. And then with the extra move there could be flamethrower, hitting all the steels and grass types and Heracross...and then we're back at my original set again! lol
Click to expand...

The thing is, your Electivire shouldn't even have HP Grass over HP Ice as an option, since HP Ice is so crucial to its sweeping capabilities. Electivire MUST have an ice move imo.

I think your first set on your original post should look more like
Thunderbolt
HP Ice / Ice Punch
Flamethrower / HP Grass
Cross Chop

a combination of your and choop's idea. The only problem with going HP Grass over HP Ice is that Ice Punch would hit less harder from 301 Atk, but you get to kill Swampert. Ice Punch still KOs Garchomp with Life Orb (with Expert Belt, its still an average OHKO) and with Stealth Rock OHKOs Mence after an Intimidate most of the time (does 88% average with Expert Belt).

qwerty, the Magmortar suggested is deadly, too, since fire is a pretty good offense, too! Especially it not being walled by Swampert and average Cresselia makes it very threatening (With Stealth Rock, Life Orb Fire Blast is a 3hko on Swampert; 2hko on Cresselia). Magmortar, is probably as deadly as Heatran in certain respects due to its higher Speed and Tbolt and Cross Chop making it less of a hit and run pogey and not easily walled. Its sweeping potential is not as great as Electivire, understandably, since its not immune to Blissey's T-Wave and doesn't get the speed boost either, making it more of a hit and run pogey compared to Electivire.
 
The thing with Electivire is, it will always get walled by at least one of the following: tangrowth, swampert, garchomp, hippowdon or metagross. The thing is trying to be able to take as many as the common threats down as possible. There should be a trait where the pokemon gets to choose 5 moves.
 
Heh, TECHNICALLY, if you don't run an electric attack, you'd be able to cover all of those walls with:

Flamethrower
HP grass
Ice Punch
Earthquake


But your coverage would, of course, drop significantly :\
 
And you wouldn't hit Blissey, making the set worthless. Pocket's post is right on the money, and I think we might have a new standard haha
 
Sounding better and better! I'm going to make a new team based off of this guy.

edit.
drew1750 said:
I dont' really like Life Orb though as if you run into a wall (esp Cresselia) you can end up really hurting yourself. So i really prefer expert belt on 'Vire.
Click to expand...

As I said before,
me said:
If you go with the Expert Belt over Life Orb, you're taking a gamble on things you might otherwise OHKO (Tangrowth, Focus Punch on Blissey, Garchomp, Rhyperior, Slowbro, Skarmory), while 2HKO's become 3HKO's (Bronzong, Hippowdon).
Click to expand...
 
DEL337ED said:
lincarnate, I'm not sure Electivire gets pursuit and even if it does it won't be doing much to Cresselia with my set.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I wasn't clear. I didn't mean using Pursuit on Electivire (I know it doesn't get Pursuit), I meant on the same team as Electivire. Since you mentioned other options to support the set in the first post, I think Pursuit deserves a mention too.
 
Ok I'm starting to see Pocket's idea more clearly, and I'll probably change the original moveset to ensure that an Ice move is there. But I don't think HP Grass should really be replacing Flamethrower, maybe HP Grass should be an other option or something. Also since nobody really likes Focus Punch I might just remove it.

EDIT - Oh and qwerty777, very nice idea with Magmortar =)
 
TSPhoenix, I never discounted your idea, it just took me some time and thinking to weigh all the options. I'm still not crazy about Ice Punch because HP Ice does everything it does. Also HP Ice can replace HP Grass (since there's still good ground coverage). This will let you keep flamethrower for grassers and steels.
 
Without EQ though, there's nothing that OHKOs stuff like Mixed Infernape. Just something to keep in mind. Getting through walls with Flamethrower might be more important.
 
But wouldn't Infernape OHKO back with close combat?
Especially on a electivire who just lost 10% from life orb. Unless its holding Expert belt, which will weaken electivires tbolt, and still probably get OHKOD.
Plus infernape is usually holding a life orb too, :O
 
Isn't this just the consensus "Electivire sucks let's find a way to make Flamethrower work on it" set that some of us worked to create in that other thread? If anybody should be taking credit for this set it's me, but this is mainly a consensus work and hardly your personal super-set. For shame.

Ah, here it is: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27201

Pre-dated by a good ten days by me, TSPhoenix, flashfox. You didn't even take part in that thread.

As already convered extensively here, not to mention in the original thread, I'd use Tpunch if you go with Hidden Power or Tbolt if you go with Ice Punch to maintain a nice 50/50 physical/special split. I'd say go for TPunch/HP, since Tbolt is really only there to OHKO Skarm, who is still 2HKOed by Tpunch and can't do much back to you. Hidden Power isn't affected by Intimidate (i.e. Salamence), hits the weaker special defense on most pokemon weak to it, and you can choose to use Grass if you hate Swampert (there's no Leaf Punch). Ice is still the better overall choice.

Then again, Tbolt does still OHKO Skarm, isn't affected by Gyarados' Intimidate, and isn't blunted by BRN as your primary attack. Doesn't really matter which way you lean, though, it's still basically the same moveset.
 
Doesn't the first post say Skarm takes 96-113% from Flamethrower? The odds of the metal chicken dying are pretty much in your favour, so I'd go with Tpunch over Tbolt. Only problem is Bulky Gyara is a 2HKO, but meh. HP Ice is the better choice for the reasons stated above. Cool set to whoever's been using it, regardless of who came up with it, though its still walled by Cresselia.
 
Why on earth would you want Thunderpunch? With the EVs given, it has more SpA and Thunderbolt has more base power.
 
Thinking from the ":hate: standard Lonely Electivire" and not the "I have multiple Special attacks now" standpoint.

Tbolt/HP Ice it is, then.
 
Mr.E, I actually never even saw that thread until just now when you posted it. I guess my idea isn't that original then, but I didn't copy anyone for it if that's what you're getting at.

Also I really see little reason to Thunder Punch, even if you go with HP Ice.
 
Actually, I think this is more common sense then anything. It's pretty much a powered-up version of RSE Electabuzz in terms of stats.
 
For what it's worth, Thunderbolt has a slightly higher damage output than Thunderpunch, assuming 379 Attack or 317 Special Attack. It's only a 2% difference though. So you're likely to be doing more damage to Cresselia with Thunderbolt (although still not much).
 
Hm, this idea is quite nice. I also like how this can even deal some to its other counters a little better.

About the Magmortar set however, you would be better off with HP Ice, since, again, Dragons wall him pretty well. TBH, Flamethrower > Fire Blast, but whatever floats your boat.

Now back to the Electivire moveset. I'd say Life Orb is better than Expert Belt, even in this case. It's to help hammer neutral resists anyways. Otherwise, props to you (and Mr. E for trying to create it as well) for a very nice 'Vire.
 
Yeah the set is nice, I've been using it since the start :O! Ohnoes my secrets out!!
Only thing is that infernape is really popular and shuts this down with rather ease without spikes and stealth rock, And on the switch you'll be getting hit by a damn powerful close combat. I'd say use this with a spiker or stealth rocker for best use.
I use it with skarm. Lay some spikes and switch in when an electric dude comes in and begin to destroy, works out quite well!
Try it yourself!
EDIT:
I saw the magmortar set, And yeah i definitely would use the standard on magmortar since it being so slow and not being able to increase its speed by anything order then a BP from someone else.
Magmortar also has a huge counter pool, who come in rather easily and OHKO back, or use some kind of move that can cause major pain such as Dragon Dance.
 
Hey I noticed this set was added to the analysis, that's cool. Just wondering though - why 184 speed over my 180? Gotta be unique eh lol
 
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