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Also, I also really like the idea of making sample teams with the sets that we post here. Not only would it be fun and challenging, but it would be great to see how they would work in an actual OU environment, and if they will be better or worse than we thought they would be
The Role Compendium thing is also a cool idea, but we probably are going to have to add a Lures section for it
It seems to be the set most likely to be consistent in the meta right now, and could even be paired with mons like Koko to boost T-Punch and bring it in.
i.e. I may or may not be hoping Gyarados is next, since I may or may not have the heatest set ever for it.
Not one of these sets is remotely viable in the OU metagame, but I'll vote for suicide lead because it's the only set aside from the one I submitted that really achieves anything in this metagame IMO, although even then it kinda sucks due to a combination of lacking any worthwhile field moves aside from Stealth Rock and it not having any way to consistently self-KO without sacrificing the ability to break the shit it needs to break.
Special/NP Nape won't be remotely viable as long as Toxapex exists and has an iron grip over the definition of "viable" within the tier; mixednape is weak as shit; special/mixed scarf (I can't remember which it is) is just worse version of ordinary ScarfNape and doesn't really do anything, there are other similar issues with every single other submission here.
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Anyway I'm probably gonna sound like a giant patronising dickhead (alternative: collossal arsehole) in this next section; it's not my intent at all, and it reads like it does in part just down to my very distinctly stereotyped communication patterns combining with the nature of the post (<-- I'm not using this as an excuse so much as I am using it as a half-explanation for the way I lay my points out). I apologise in advance if you interpret it as such. Also I'm questioning myself about why I care enough to write as much as I have, but I do for whatever reason so yeah have fun reading this inefficiently-written wall of text that I typed at 3 AM, as that seems to be all I'm capable of typing ever…
I'm looking to add even more resources to the thread, what are your ideas and what do you think of my ideas? Again, i'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
my ideas include:
Next Best Thing Submission Viability Rankings, where I order the sets into a list, ranked by viability of each set in the meta. all sets will be listed! (but only if you people approve of it)
Free-For-All Round - everyone can enter any pokemon and any set and put them against one another.
Sample Teams, where me and members of the community build teams based around sets posted on the forums (might have to post the teams on the Bazaar, but the idea holds strong)
Role Compendium, where I list the functionalities of every set and what sort of builds they work best on.
Next Best Thing Discord, to discuss everything listed above!
I'm all for the idea of increasing the scope of this project (and projects in general) and definitely think that it is something that more hosts should try to do in order to prevent the staleness that you see within projects that just follow the formula to a T, but in my opinion you're going about it the wrong way with your ideas. Gonna put my reasoning in hide tags because it's big and scrolling past it every time the thread gets opened would fucking SUCK, but yeah I hope I explain it decently.
With a project like this, you can't really treat it like a resource because the information it provides is, for the most part, reasonably useless outside of the context of the general week-to-week running of the thread, in that it's a "topical project" or a "monster of the week" project in which a lot of uh… useless shit (to put it as nicely or bluntly as possible, depending on whether you consider honesty to be kindness or not) gets submitted. The resource equivalent of this thread would be "Creative and Underrated Sets." This thread instead functions as a game, and as such any expansions to its scope should be always under the umbrella of a game rather than turning it into some psuedointellectual resource that is supposed to hold more value upon re-reading than it does currently when said intended value serves little purpose.
Take a look at Lure That Threat and Pokemon Matchmaking (before me and Leo just kinda forgot about it) for examples of how the scope of these types of "game" projects can be broadened or optimised without changing the overall goal of project:
In Lure That Threat, I ditched the winners system in favor of providing feedback on all submissions in the form of "tiered" results (good, middling/bad and awful) in order to help people improve on a round-to-round basis by laying my thought processes out in an easy-to-understand format while also removing the overall arbitrariness of the winners system as it was used in that project.
Me+Leo did a similar thing wrt feedback in Pokemon Matchmaking wherein we'd both provide a few lines of feedback on discord then c/p them into the round-ending post, but this wasn't expressly at the sacrifice of the winners system iirc like it is with LTT (iirc we kinda experimented with both a winners and non-winners system but I can't remember which we ended up settling on, if either).
While those are both adaptations to a non-voting winner system, there are definitely adaptations that can be made while retaining the current "submit/vote" format that you are using aatm. To repeat myself real quick: always try to think of a way of improving it/broadening its scope as a game rather than trying to change the direction you want the thread to take, as if you do the latter you will A: change what the project is on a fundamental level (<-- this is invariably a bad thing when it comes to user-contribution type work), B: probably make it worse overall, and C: double or triple the amount of work you need to do for no real net benefit.
I'm just gonna go through the list of ideas you put forward and explain the key issue I see with each of them. Don't think of this as me ripping your ideas apart or anything (that's exactly how it reads in hindsight, but idt it's possible to make it not read like that while still getting across my point in full detail), and instead think of it more as a general illustration for why treating a project like this one as a resource doesn't work in my opinion:
Next Best Thing Submission Viability Rankings, where I order the sets into a list, ranked by viability of each set in the meta. all sets will be listed! (but only if you people approve of it)
Suffers from a combination of excessive subjectivity (especially with only one person determining the rankings of stuff) and the issue if 90% of the sets that get submitted to the project being either unviable or C/D rank at best. It'd be redundant and mostly pointless. That and it'd mostly be based on theorymonning shit.
Free-For-All Round - everyone can enter any pokemon and any set and put them against one another.
I'm not quite sure what this achieves, but either way without a basis to compare stuff against you can't realistically run a project with winners; comparing, say, TankChomp to Lure Mew is like comparing apples to oranges—the two are totally different fruits—whereas comparing TankChomp to Chain Chomp is like comparing pink lady apples to bramley apples—the taste and texture are different, but at the end of the day they're still apples.
Sample Teams, where me and members of the community build teams based around sets posted on the forums (might have to post the teams on the Bazaar, but the idea holds strong)
I've never liked the idea of "sample teams" for projects like this; they always feel forced or contrived and generally don't provide anything of value in the long run, as generally speaking people will see that their set is usually worthless and will then proceed to either just plug it onto a random team that it doesn't fit onto or will force a build that uses it, both of which result in gaping holes in their builds that could be filled by just building like a normal human being. If you use a "next best thing" set it should serve its team—not the other way around—and the fact is that "sample teams" for obnoxiously niche variants of a Pokemon very rarely do this because people just build them for the project. In fact, this is the same issue I saw with forcing sample teams in OU Underdog (and why I dismissed it on the spot despite one user's vehement insistence that they were important).
Role Compendium, where I list the functionalities of every set and what sort of builds they work best on.
Suffers a lot of the same issues as both sample teams and viability rankings in that it A: is very susceptible to being pointlessly theorymonned (and as such inaccurate), B: is basically always gonna be contrived and not really worth looking at and, as such is C: mostly pointless.
Next Best Thing Discord, to discuss everything listed above!
A discord server needs to have some kind of demand in order to form any kind of meaningful community; the OU server suffices for this kind of stuff (as they are generally pretty short-lived conversations anyway given that people don't hold their interest on things for more than about 15 minutes at a time due to evidence-supported scientific reasons), and I doubt that it would hold people's interest for more than maybe a few days before it'd die just like all of these types of hyper-specific servers do.
Just spend a little time thinking about what you want this project to be and how you can broaden its scope while pushing that agenda without ultimately changing its fundamental purpose and the best way to improve the project will become obvious very quickly.
Yeah I agree with Martin on most things however I'd say Sample Teams has potential - take the winner of each week and successfully encorporate it into a good team, giving people the opportunity to try it themselves in a situation where it will be shown in a good light and it lets people know when to use it and what it's actual merits are.
Really would enjoy to see sample teams implemented into this, it might mean people actually use these sets rather than just vote on them then forget about them. Also enjoyed reading your life story, reminds me of my own except I don't think I got lost in any of the towns lol
After listening to everyone's feedback, i've decided not to continue with my ideas. Martin mentioned that these ideas were mostly unnecessary, which I have to strongly agree with. In hindsight I was didn't consider the sheer amount of work that would be required due to me being overly enthusiastic after posting my first notable contribution in the RMT forum. At the moment I no further ideas on expanding the thread, though I do wish I could expand the thread out to more users.
Anyways, this week's study will be Magearna! Magearna has proven itself to be a consistent top-tier threat and has moulded the metagame around its presence! It also happens to have many options, as showcased by our brilliant array of high-level competitors, which have proven Magearna's ability to run nearly any set without drawback! Can you make a set that is just as consistent and amazing? Deadline for submissions is on Friday the 27th of April!
Additional Rules:
For this week, you may post one of the listed sets. However, you must make it differ from the standard set. For example, your entry may be an assault vest set, but it differentiates itself because it has evs in a different stat, has an unorthodox move or has no IVs in a certain stat. I will leave a message on your wall if it does not comply with this rule.
As always, Happy Posting!
Post: Also i'll be updating the thread with some new resources, including more sample posts, a better guide to post and anything else anyone can think of. Stay Tuned
The main reason you should be using this set over Z-Tbolt is because it's able to muscle past M-Venu and Amoonguss (AV can eat a hit but can't Spore, while classic Sp. Def dies after chip) very easily, while still being able to nuke Pex. Synchronoise is actually a pretty cool move, it allows you to hit Koko and Clefable for good damage, and Synchronoise into Z-Synchro is able to break past Clef, unlike Tbolt into Z-Tbolt which dosen't 2HKO Clef from full, even with max rolls when factoring Lefties.The EV spread I chose is Modest with enough speed to outspeed M-Lop after a SG.
252+ SpA Magearna Shattered Psyche (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 256-302 (84.4 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Magearna Shattered Psyche (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 156+ SpD Venusaur-Mega: 310-366 (85.3 - 100.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Magearna Shattered Psyche (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 160+ SpD Assault Vest Amoonguss: 278-328 (64.3 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Magearna Shattered Psyche (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 216+ SpD Amoonguss: 390-460 (90.4 - 106.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Magearna Synchronoise vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 157-185 (39.8 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Magearna Shattered Psyche (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 247-291 (62.6 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Magearna Synchronoise vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Koko: 181-214 (64.4 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Pretty straightforward set, just tank an earthquake or whatever behind screens, get +2 speed +2 special attack, and you'll still be at +1 if you nab a KO with Fleur Cannon - a feat which would otherwise only be achievable by Z move sets, allowing you to give some other sweeper the Z move. Needless to say this is only a good idea on screens hyper offense teams, as almost everything that hits magearna super effectively OHKOs it otherwise.
This post will be used to showcase some well-presented entries! Entries that are listed here clearly present their submissions, as they clearly present what their submission does, why their submission should be used over standard sets and how it fits onto teams. Here are just a few of many posts that do exactly this.
@
Ability- Soul-Heart EVs- 248 HP | 8 Def | 252 SpD IVs- 0 Atk | 0 Spe Nature-Calm
Flash Cannon | Heal Bell |Volt Switch | Heart Swap
General idea
The worst part about Magearna is that low Spe that leaves this pokemon really easy to be revenge killed or, simply put, easy to be forced out from the battlefield.
The addition of Choice Scarf rectifies this fact, thanks to the 1.5 boost provided by this item, which is really unexpected. You are no longer able to switch moves, but with a single boost you are able to clean a damaged team. Keep in mind that you resist SR, so you can switch-in&out repeatedly throughout the match.
You can run now a 4th coverage move, namely Ice Beam, in order to hit many annoying Grounds in the OU environment, but you have other options. I'd like to underline that you can spam Fleur Cannon even twice in a row thanks to its base power + STAB and Focus Blast, if hits, is very useful to deal with Tyranitar and other Steels before stomaching their attacks.
EVs (spread) and item
EVs are pretty standard and are the same of the Shift Gear set.
Choice Scarf is the item chosen, but take in account that Magearna is still outsped by faster Scarfers (i.e. Scarf Landorus-T).
Team(mates) support
Some hazards setters are really useful to weaken the opposite team in order to clean it with relative ease; Magearna is strong but can't KO pokemons from full without boosts.
Some form of Spe control (i.e. Sticky Web or Thunder Wave) is recommended to ensure that Magearna is faster than the pokemon you want to KO.
With 130 SpAtk and Choice Specs, Magearna hits like a truck.
Thunderbolt hits Celesteela, Toxapex and other bulky water types (Volt Switch can be used for momentum but I prefer the power of T-bolt).
Fleur Cannon hits almost every non-resist extremely hard, almost always getting an OHKO or 2HKO. Focus Blast hits Heatran, Ferrothorn and the like of them.
The last move can have Ice Beam for an accurate way to hit Landorus and Zygarde or HP Fire for an accurate way to hit Ferrothorn and a way to always OHKO Scizor.
Landorus
252 SpA Choice Specs Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 382-451 (100 - 118%)
Toxapex
252 SpA Choice Specs Magearna Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 166-196 (54.7 - 64.6%)
Heatran
252 SpA Choice Specs Magearna Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 140-165 (43.3 - 51%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Magearna Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 372-438 (115.1 - 135.6%)
Ferrothorn
252 SpA Choice Specs Magearna Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 208+ SpD Ferrothorn: 264-312 (75 - 88.6%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Magearna Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 208+ SpD Ferrothorn: 268-316 (76.1 - 89.7%)
Celesteela
252 SpA Choice Specs Magearna Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 156 SpD Celesteela: 250-296 (62.9 - 74.5%)
Reuniclus
252 SpA Choice Specs Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Reuniclus: 364-430 (85.8 - 101.4%)
Gastrodon
252 SpA Choice Specs Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 261-307 (61.4 - 72.2%)
This set is quite slow, but it's so strong. Sadly it can't really get the snowballing effect that Shift Gear does, but it's hard for teams that lack a specific counter (Chansey, AV Magearna, Venusaur) to switch-in to.
Magearna @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shift Gear
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind
If the Z move slot is taken but you still want SG Magearna, then Shuca Berry is a solid alternative. It lets you surprise and set up on Garchomp, Gliscor, Zygarde, and most importantly, defensively Lando. If Hawlucha taught us anything, using the best Pokémon in the tier as setup bait is amazing. I prefer Calm Mind since most players will get scared after you surprise them and switch out, but Focus Blast is a solid choice if you prefer hitting Heatran instead.
Magearna @ Assault Vest
Ability: Soul Heart
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Fleur Cannon
- Iron Head
- Volt Switch
- Ice Beam
One of the things that really annoys me when using AV Magearna is the way that Gliscor just kinda invalidates its ability to function offensively, tanking Fleur Cannon with ease and healing off the damage with the help of the SpA drop and blocking Volt Switch attempts nicely. Ice Beam alleviates this issue nicely, OHKOing standard Gliscor after Stealth Rock.
Beyond this, it allows Magearna to deal with general Ground-types more easily:
Ice Beam --> Fleur Cannon almost always KOs analysis Hippowdon after 1 Spike (guaranteed with SR+1 Spike or if Leftovers is knocked off, but so do two Ice Beams at that point so if you are 100% certain that they won't switch out Hippo then click Ice Beam a second time instead), meaning it can't do its thing of tanking the Fleur Cannon and using the SpA drop to heal it all off again.
OHKOs Lando-T after SR, meaning it can't be used to block Volt Switches while its healthy (tanks Fleur Cannon with ease and can take a second one at full health thanks to the SpA drop if it really needs to)
One-shots offensive DD Zygarde without dropping Gears' SpA, which is of situational use.
Hi Children (Magearna) @ Leftovers
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Fleur Cannon
- Pain Split
- Heart Swap
- Volt Switch
Runing Magearna's Ubers set with Pain Split and Heart Swap , Magearna can trade strong special bulk for the ability to always defeat any Stored Power variants of Reuniclus, Mega Latias, and Clefable that are currently trending in OU thanks to Heart Swap stealing all their boosts while Pain Split + Heart Swap still allows you too beat Tapu Lele and Hoopa Unbound as well. Against walls, Magearna can just take up a huge chunk of health and pivot out as well. This set works best on stall mainly because of its abilities to check StallBreakers like the ones listed above, and because its Special Bulk is not super monstrous without Assault Vest, which is something that Chansey and other teammates can patch up. Still this set works well if you want a Tapu Lele and other psychic type counter for stall.
Megumin (Magearna) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Fleur Cannon
- Iron Head
- Explosion
- Volt Switch
If your team doesn't really need fire coverage, Explosion is a viable alternative, catching mons like Volcarona and Mega Charizard Y offguard as you just about live any hit they can go for due to Magearna retarded bulk. If this isn't different enough to Martin's submission, just tell me, I have another sub I could enter.
Can set up slowly with CM while keeping itself healthy with Pain Split and Leftovers to break stall. BoltBeam Coverage is chosen but other pairs like Focus Blast+Shadow Ball can be picked depending on the team.
Magearna @ Leftovers
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 248 HP / 216 SpA / 44 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
This set offers a bulky variant of the popular shift gear calm mind set. In exchange for the loss of speed, you can setup much easier against physical attackers and psyshock lele. Speed evs outspeed skarm to avoid whirlwind and rest are put into ho and sp.atk to maximize bulk and damage output. And that’s pretty much all there is to it. 140 defense evs could taken from sp.atk if you want to survive a +2 Lucha HJK if your team is weak to that I guess. While shift gear would be nice to hve on this set, there isn’t really room unless you want to sacrifice boltbeam coverage for single STAB or shadow ball, neither of which have the power to break through most teams.
This set is a pretty cool and unexpected Screens setter, if you're already using offensive Koko or you need to role compress hard. Magearna at team preview can be hard to predict, but you opponent certainly won't expect that moves like Defensive Landorus and Gyarados-Mega's Earthquake or Hoopa-Unbound Choice Band Fire Punch to be a 3HKO if you tank one and then set up Reflect on the same turn. This is great because after you live the second hit, you can do a huge chunk of damage, recover your health from Pain Split and then grab momentum with Volt Switch. Alternatively if Landorus is a real worry Ice Beam is an option to OHKO and for coverage alongside Volt Switch and can in general hit Ground-types that block Volt Switch. It's generally better than Klefki in my opinion thanks to recovery and momentum. Heart Swap could also be used to avoid your opponent trying to set-up while you are getting you're screens up.
This set does require a bit of team support. Best to pair this set with a strong Water-type like Greninja or Gyarados to hit the Ground and Fire-types that threaten Magearna with their STAB, with the latter also blocking Volt Switch. Grassy Terrain is a good call to weaken Earthquake and provide recovery which Magearna loves, SD Bulu also appreciates the Screens for setting up. Unfortunately Magearna doesn't learn Taunt, so it will need support to beat/take advantage of Defoggers.
Magearna @ Fightinium/Normalium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive or Jolly Nature
- Shift Gear
- Iron Head
- Brick Break/Explosion
- Fleur Cannon/Brick Break
Idea behind this set is to turn a double dance into single dance, with more move options and the ability to net a ton of unexpected KOs.
Couple notes about this set
1. Big choice is between fightinium and normalium. Fightinium allows you to avoid being walled by annoying steels. Normalium allows you for two physical nukes, the breakneck blitz and explosion. If using normalium, steel trapper is almost required.
2. Fleur Cannon hits really hard without any significant investment. Having basically the same damage as assault vest magearna also allows you to bluff AV, forcing switches, and then hitting really hard with physical attacking moves that mons aren't prepared for. 3. It also allows for unexpected opportunities to set up shift gear. Shift gear is a super good setup move, and while this set is pseudo viable, Magearna is 1 physical move away from being a top tier physical sweeper, and still can be put to good use. Lack of good coverage still doesn't stop a boosted iron head/breakneck blitz from denting/outright KOing most mons.
Special bulk Magearna
Magearna @ Leftovers
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Thunder Wave
- Heal Bell
- Flash Cannon
This set can take special hits and some physical. Substitute can predict a switch or status (if you outspeed). Thunder wave can really screw most Pokemon, heal bell cures your team from status such as poison and flash cannon is good stab.
you're doing a great job with this project (and your posts on the forum in general), but it feels like you're being sorta overly ambitious with it. it's normal for weekly OU forum projects to have a bit of downtime: i've hosted / been involved with quite a few, and this was always the case. regardless, you definitely don't have a "lack of activity" in this thread... just look at the amount of posts for magearna this week lol.
i'd just keep doing week long rounds (~4-5 days for submission and ~2-3 days for voting). also, you should probably focus on doing really viable subjects rather than pokemon like infernape. niche pokemon tend to only have one or two sets that really work, so not only will you end up with fewer submissions, but they will most likely be really impractical sets. pokemon around B or higher on the VR thread are more likely to have a variety of interesting sets that can be submitted that actually have some practical use. this last week has shown that with magearna.
Magearna @ Leftovers / Fairium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Quiet Nature
- Trick Room
- Fleur Cannon
- Volt Switch
- Explosion
On paper, this doesn't look like much of a change from the standard OTR set, but in practice, it plays quite differently; rather than being a standalone sweeper, this is more of a supportive set for full Room teams, taking advantage of its access to two brilliant momentum-grabbers in Volt Switch and Explosion to get your other sweepers in for free. Think of it as a Cresselia duct-taped to a nuke. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Since this set wants to stick around and set up TR as many times as it can before going Boom, Leftovers is preferred over Fairium Z, but you can still run the latter if nothing else on your team needs the slot.
Thank you everyone for participating yet again, and thank you for the feedback! starry blanket I can express how much it means to get feedback from such a large presence in the community like yourself. I guess today was the day to finally take a step back and realise how overzealous i've become.
As you can probably tell, i've decided to follow the format that I had made in week one, so from now onwards, it will This week was another fantastic week filled with many creative, effective and most important interesting sets. I'm quite looking forwards to building with them all some time in the future. In the meantime, i'm tagging cool kid vsomani and presenting this week's nominees!
I'd also like to use this opportunity to ask what 'mon you would like to see next, as i'm having trouble between these two 'mons:
or
so i'd like you guys to decide which 'mon you want to see next week! The incredibly dominant Tapu Koko or the rising Reuniclus! Voting ends on Sunday the 29th GMT +10.
I'll be voting for Psychium Z / Felixx. weekly reminder to like all my posts or you'll be banned from posting here.
