NFE NFE Metagame Discussion

[hayedenn]

So I used Clef this week, and honestly it was kinda poppin. I first tried out the typical CM + Cosmic Power set and it was fairly enjoyable (although I saw more Vullaby's than I'd like). I also toyed with Specs, which I found to be a fun meme set even if it didn't work out all that much. Last set I used was CM + Thunder which hits Bat and is also funny.

Sets

cm cosmic power

Clefairy @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Soft-Boiled
- Cosmic Power
- Stored Power

specs

Clefairy @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe <-- speed is to outspeed min tang
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Fire Blast
- Psychic
- Trick

cm thunder

Clefairy @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soft-Boiled
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Thunder

I mainly tested CM + Cosmic Power Clef because of the lack of popular Dark-types right now and also because it's able to compensate for Clef getting knocked off during a match. And, honestly, it isn't a bad set. It is pretty inconsistent, mainly because Clef needs a lot of setup and because of that, it raises your chances of getting crit eventually. However, once it gets going it is pretty hard to stop. Main thing you need to watch out for is getting Knocked early, as it makes it even harder to set up later and honestly physical attackers can still break through this set. And, obviously any Taunt mons as well can stop this set as well.

I tried Specs Clef as well. Fun meme set. Hits stuff hard (sorta). That's it lol

I also tried out CM Thunder. It's a fun set and Thunder lets you hit stuff like Bat for solid damage, but nothing crazy. Thunder's main purpose is just to scare Bat and make the opposing player uneasy about keeping it in. It also lets you fish for paras and does all around decent damage. I went PhysDef on this set just so you can improve your MUs against physical attackers and also bc since there's no Cosmic Power you can't raise your defense at all. Obv with Thunder > Flamethrower you can't 1v1 any steel-types or really threaten Ferro at all but I think it's worth it for the better Mareanie/Bat matchups. Psychic is also an option but it's weaker and less fun to use.

+1 0 SpA Clefairy Thunder vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Golbat: 134-158 (37.9 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 0 SpA Clefairy Thunder vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Mareanie: 112-132 (36.9 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

The Team
:clefairy: :raboot: :koffing: :hattrem: :gurdurr: :marshtomp:

The main goal of this team is to take advantage of Clef's MUs against Golbat/Darks/Dragons/other stuff and set up against special attackers. Raboot functions as the main physical wallbreaker and CB is busted. Koffing is there as a physical wall and TSpikes setter which really help this team. Hatt is a mixed/special wall, I forgot what the spread is for in particular oops. PhysDef Gurdurr checks Steel-types and I also love BU on this set. Marsh sets rocks and checks Electric-types and Magmar.

Replays

Assortment of replays here that show how my various teams have functioned, some where Clef succeeded and some where it was BAD.

cosmic power stored power clef

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1294580498-nyzs1en2h1zz5lmf1sh2c015xdiqqaepw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1294062080-n7vndzm57l8vd8fsbl1a64f6zmkhmqjpw

specs clef

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1290979243-7uxr4kv9fv4tk7d4j69kvnvzb05j3ujpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1290518656-h03o280lgrm6q7p7w3uw9r7fccj010epw

thunder clef

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1294682864-agj6h9eu49rftsy6ehluu9pnxlr2g9hpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1294633572-4eiteeya1b8ckzi9u4mtf5gqwi729l7pw

Stored Power Clef - Good set-up mon, just very inconsistent and struggles to actually get going. However, once you're able to get a few Cosmic Powers up and have removed all of your opponent's Dark and Steel-type Pokemon, it honestly does it's job pretty well
Specs Clef - Stan it's pretty bad but funny to use
Thunder Clef - More consistent than Stored Power Clef, and with Bat everywhere it isn't the worst choice. Imperfect, but not awful

Edit: Also I'm end this a week early since we've already gotten so many posts, so tomorrow I'll post a summary and we can get to voting!

 

[Eris]

Compressing two posts that have nothing to do with each other but time management has been hella weak lately so bear with me. To start off with I would like to go through my council vote on possible suspects by using words or talking about why Pikachu is first since no one has talked about it yet.

I would like to firmly affirm that my current opinion on the metagame stands as 'fine'. I think it has evolved well from where it was previously and that it definitely is overall healthy and enjoyable to play in. To the eyes of many, the metagame seems stale in its current shape but, that is just the nature of the tier which we hopefully will get less of through the DPP remakes.

:Pikachu:
My main reasoning on whether or not a suspect should be held is on the teambuilding side more than in-game, where I think it could be much more diverse (and therefore less stale). The main reason why I think cores tend to repeat themselves, the prevalence of Tangela, Thwackey, Gurdurr, etc continues to have an effect is majorly due to what Pikachu offers imo. FakeSpeed is probably its most used set where its access to double priority, Knock Off, and Volt Switch just makes it one of the most effective midground offensive presence of the tier. How many times can one reliably predict what move Pikachu will be using and not get at a disadvantage? It would be hard to find a better cleaner in the game that doesn't bop every offensive threat or check after a Knock Off and a Volt Switch which is why Pikachu works so well, it synergizes with the entire tier making it one of the splashiest threats to use with very little counterpart where you only really need to check Ground-types like Piloswine and Marshtomp or bulky stuff like Tangela, which is not at all hard to do, but even less when it can bait them and use a different set or coverage move to get through. The Ground-types need to bait Surf or Grass Knot while the other physical walls can't handle special invested Thunderbolt chu, but it would be biased not to note that these changes drastically change its role in many matchups, most often for the worse.

These factors alone are however enough to make teambuilding much more restricting in having multiple counter plays or checks which does come to an inconvenience when there are so many other threats a team would like to prep for such as Sun, Webs, Regen cores, and more. That restriction alone however does come at a priority where Pikachu is without a guess the first threat players consider when building. I believe pushes it above the other two in how centralizing and perhaps broken it is, but I have to say that I have played the metagame so much with it that it does make it hard for me to really get around what the tier would be without it.

------------------------------------------------​

NFE Research Week

:clefairy:
Like many others, I have decided to go with Clefairy for this week. CM Clefairy used to be the most popular set back in early SM where it easily surpassed Duosion and was much more difficult to play against which this project gave me another go at trying out even though it is quite obvious that it wouldn't be a top metagame threat. There are a ton of reasons as to why this set no longer worked after that period of time which are still relevant to today's metagame, the predominant one being that Clefairy is actually so frail once knocked and really does need a good amount of support to function. The new Teleport buff also clearly made it a much more viable support Pokemon paired with Wish, Stealth Rock, etc. I tested a bunch of cores with it that seemed witty but didn't actually help it much at the end such as:linoone-galar::nidorina:(don't ask):metang::machoke: a big reason as to why that is, is because of:tangela:which is probably the biggest check to actually prep for against it even if you wouldn't think so I think there are a numerous of my replays that showed how pressured Clefairy ends up when it can't OHKO it. Once the Eviolite is gone Clefairy can easily be stopped as almost every physical attacker can 2HKO it without being very pressured by its underwhelming special attack stat, however, it can work quite nicely as a mid-game wallbreaker but I wouldn't judge it as very reliable in that.

I tried different versions such as Stealth Rocks, Draining Kiss, Wish but none really appealed to me and so I would promote coverage like Flamethrower/Fire Blast or Psyshock/Stored Power above those. I am also not really a fan of double set up versions or Toxic which made it feel even more passive than it already is.

Here is the team I ended up using:
:clefairy::piloswine::ivysaur::lampent::gurdurr::hattrem:

I wouldn't say this is the best version and I'm sure that already posted teams would be much more successful but this was my best attempt in the time I had and the three other teams I had made, having tspikes and:tangela:counterplay are things I prioritized when building this team and the rest tried to cover everything else, I think a massive weakness to this team are common physical wallbreakers like:Raboot:and SD:Thwackey:which can easily get through the team late game. I also really wanted to use Ivysaur on this team and it is surprisingly frail too but very reliable still, would recommend using more often. Feel free to edit the team if you would like to use it!

 

[hayedenn]

Thank you everyone who submitted this week! Here's a quick summary of each mon, compiled from your responses. Thanks so much for these excellent, well-written posts!

Set-up Clef
+ Decent coverage, good movepool, and various recovery options means Clef has a variety of sets it can run and take advantage of
+ Good typing and bulk with Eviolite
+ Many teams are unprepared for set-up Clef (although it has many natural counters)
- Poor defensive stats after a Knock Off, leading to Clef being inconsistent as a sweeper
- Mono-attacker sets have many auto-lose matchups
- Lacks the support normal Clef sets provide
- Requires a lot of team support

Natu
+ Magic Bounce is an amazing ability
+ Teleport and Roost are great moves and give it a noticeable niche over Hattrem
- Natu struggles to switch on common Stealth Rock setters such as Piloswine and Ferroseed (after a Knock Off)
- Weakness to Stealth Rock hurts it's ability to switch in if hazards are set up
- Relies on Night Shade or Psychic to do damage, and has very little offensive presence
- Less bulky than its main competition Hattrem
- Has 4MSS

Here is the Google Form (click here) we're going to be using for voting since I don't want to clog up this thread. Y'all have until Sunday night (EST / GMT -5) to vote. I'll put up the next week's mons then as well. Cheers!

 

[hayedenn]

Thanks to all who submitted. This week's set winners are professor tox's Clefairy set and Jett's Natu set. This week's team winner is ojr's Clefairy team! These will all be linked in the Hall of Fame

For this second cycle we have...

Machoke! Every since Gurdurr was released into the tier Machoke has seen a significant drop in its usage. Can this former NFE staple regain its glory?

We'll also be researching Seadra! Seadra has been looked over for this entire DLC due to its lack of utility moves and poor movepool. However, it still has some good bulk (55/95/45), powerful SpA (95), and solid Speed (85). This week, it's going to be your job to see if this little seahorse has what it takes to make it in NFE.

possible sets i pulled out of my @$$

Seadra @ Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
Ability: Poison Point / Sniper
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Surf
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Flip Turn

Seadra @ Eviolite
Ability: Poison Point
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Scald
- Toxic / Ice Beam

Seadra @ Eviolite
Ability: Poison Point
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe OR 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Timid Nature
- Flip Turn
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Toxic

Seadra @ Scope Lens
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Agility
- Focus Energy
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam

Seadra @ Eviolite
Ability: Sniper / Poison Point
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Outrage
- Double-Edge

Seadra @ Eviolite
Ability: Poison Point
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute / Protect
- Toxic
- Scald
- Ice Beam

Seadra @ Eviolite
Ability: Poison Point
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Curse
- Waterfall

In order to participate you must do the following:

• Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched!
• Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using; participate in the discussion!
• Post replays of this Pokemon in action against other teams - show rather than just tell
• The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the most votes by the time the challenge ends
• Winners will also receive a permanent spot in this thread's Hall of Fame :]

TL;DR: Make a team, post about it and your experiences with the mon, whether you like it or not and think it's viable w/ some replays to justify your point, and we'll vote for our favorite sets and teams between 3/12-3/14

Sample Discussion Template

Sprite/Video/Banner/Image/(Not mandatory]
Introduction (Doesn't need to be long)
Set(s)
Discussion(Pros/Cons/Replays/Calculations)
Conclusion

 

[Jett]

I guess I'll shoot first again for Week 2. This week I chose Machoke because I'm not particularly fond of Seadra. As the OP stated, Machoke is largely outclassed by Gurdurr so I tried to bring back a niche set used during the HOME metagame, where although Gurdurr was in fact banned, the set still utilised some moves that Gurdurr doesn't get.

:ss/machoke:

Boss B*tch

Boss B*tch (Machoke) (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 208 HP / 252 Atk / 48 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dynamic Punch
- Knock Off
- Encore / Stomping Tantrum
- Toxic

Dynamic Punch is a really stupid move which lets Machoke muscle past would-be checks, occasionally while also tilting your opponent. I initially had Stomping Tantrum to catch out Koffing (252+ Atk Machoke Stomping Tantrum vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Koffing: 224-264 (78.8 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO), with Toxic to facilitate the boost in power and also cripple other common walls such as Galarian Corsola and Tangela. I later switched this to encore because I didn't run into a single Koffing until my last game lol and Encore was a lot better at shutting down the walls that ladder likes to bring. There wasn't really much reason for me to opt for a Flame Orb set as much as I did want to bring back a team more similar to 5 F*cking Machokes because Gurdurr fulfilled this role much better and the point of this was to find a reliable and solid niche that Machoke could perform.

I had two variants of the team, with one having Carkol and the other having Golbat but therefore no hazards. The reason I made this change was because of I didn't want to change Electabuzz from a fun Thief set to a Taunt variant so I needed another mon that could beat sun and setup sweepers. I fittingly named this 6 F*cking Machokes because now we also have Hattrem with Healing Wish. Here is the most optimal version, but bare in mind I did not use the exact version of this team in most of my games:
:machoke: :clefairy: :hattrem: :tangela: :electabuzz: :carkol: .

Machoke vs Gurdurr

+ Dynamic Punch Confusion
+ Has Encore
+ Faster (albeit only slightly)

- Gurdurr has a recovery on a STAB move
- Gurdurr has a priority STAB move
- Gurdurr has access to Defog
- Gurdurr has Taunt, which is more reliable against some walls
- Gurdurr is stronger (albeit only slightly)

We already knew this but Machoke is basically a worse Gurdurr for the most part hence its plummet in usage ever since Crown Tundra released and Gurdurr was freed.

Replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1297945381-nke0lzbo0l89z1c3033343rzrps1nuxpw (Missed like 3 Sleep powders lmao but still won vs Tox. Machoke itself didn't do too much but it got a Knock on Golbat an dented Electabuzz with Confusion dissuading it from Volt Switching so I could go for a Electabuzz switch predicting the Golbat to come out again, which provided me a lot of early tempo)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1298416974-b6w4lt0vrxnhe3rrksz1bfdeyyg1keupw (Landed a Toxic and then Encored Galarian Corsola so it was forced out, then got another Toxic onto the Tangela, but did nothing after that because max Sleep turns)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1298431753-je1ysewsk8141myqlaisqjhmcs18yddpw (Encored a Wartortle using Shell Smash which let me get a free KO onto the Pika sack)

So to answer whether this former NFE staple can regain its glory, the short answer is no. The slightly longer answer is probably not, because most the experimentation and optimisation has been done with its sets and it is highly unlikely that the metagame will shift towards being more Machoke favoured without favouring Gurdurr.

 

[hayedenn]

love react to this if u want to ban sun
fuck sun
its very obviously broken with limited counterplay, abusers are good as fuck, easy to use which makes it a great mu fish. even if ur a good nfe main vs a less experienced player you could lose cuz of how good it is. its basically really hard to prevent sun from going up since the main sun teams have hatt which beats like almost all the setters and port clef gets in pix. then lets talk about ivysaur, this mon has good moves with solar beam weather growth and then u can go sbomb/sleep powder. both are good options as last move sbomb hits fire types not called lampent for neutral damage and sleep powder kinda stops golbat in its tracks. and then we have charmeleon who just nukes almost everything except if ur immune to fire moves. raboot and magmar are a bit weaker but are more consistent picks overall. so yeaa we have a lot of abusers of sun and they are all very good + preventing rocks isnt hard at all makes sun very hard to beat. and thats why I think its broken lol

Click to collapse...

While I'm crying over exams this week and working on making Seadra work, I thought I'd just write down my ideas in regards to a possible sun suspect. Sun is very good in NFE. It has access to solid Chlorophyll mons (:ivysaur: :tangela:) and fire-type abusers (:magmar: :raboot: :charmander::lampent:). Vulpix is a decent Drought user, with a relatively powerful Weather Ball and access to good utility moves in Encore, Memento, WoW, etc. Sun has access to decent Stealth Rock users that can also learn Sunny Day with Onix, Clefairy, and Gabite. Overall, Sun is a really solid HO playstyle to use, and as Jett said:

[11:36] #Jett: most the time it allows either players to cheese wins against teams which aren't well equipped for it, or in some cases left worser players beat better players if they solid enough mus
[11:37] #Jett: idt it's broken but it's really bs, and have already seen players who don't prep well for it just insta lose vs sun in no titans, idk how applicable this is to the normal metagame

Click to collapse...

Granted, Jett is referring to the No Titans tour that's currently ongoing but a lot of what they said does apply to the normal metagame. What makes Sun so difficult to prepare for is not that it's hard to predict, but that it's hard to stop what's coming. Consistent answers to Sun are few and far between, and those that are able to consistently switch in can't (usually) do so directly, and Golbat, sun's most prominent check, can't switch in directly unless it's a SpDef set, and if you have Stealth Rock up, it's still a 2HKO

+2 252+ SpA Ivysaur Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Golbat in Sun: 220-259 (62.3 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Ivysaur Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Golbat in Sun: 150-177 (42.4 - 50.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

SpDef Hattrem is another possible defensive answer. It's able to avoid Sleep Powder due to Magic Bounce and can threaten it with a combination of Nuzzle, Psychic, and Mystical Fire. However, it's also able to switch into Ivysaur directly. Mareanie suffers the same issues, being able to prevent Ivysaur from setting up with Haze, however, it's unable to switch-in and can't directly threaten Ivysaur with any attacks.

+2 252+ SpA Ivysaur Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 244+ SpD Eviolite Hattrem: 184-217 (57.8 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Ivysaur Solar Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Mareanie: 220-259 (72.6 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

There are a few offensive answers to Sun that prevent it from being a completely busted playstyle. Sash Kadabra and Scarf Raboot come to mind immediately, the first being able to threaten Ivysaur and Tangela with it's Sash set, always living one attack and being able to strike back with a Psychic or Thunder Wave/Encore depending on what you go for. Scarf Raboot always outspeeds Ivysaur under Sun and can OHKO it with Flare Blitz. Tangela still lives a Flare Blitz under Sun but it can 2HKO it with a combination of U-Turn/FBlitz and since it's running Chlorophyll > Regenerator, you can chip it fairly easily. Pikachu can stall Sun turns with Fake Out, but it can't really threaten Ivysaur or Tangela with any attacks. Lampent is something else that can improve a team's matchup versus Sun, but Ivy and Tang always run enough speed to outspeed Scarf Lampent. Eviolite is a decent item on it to always live attacks from either, but it's also prone to getting Sleep Powdered. There's some more stuff down in the B-rank that can work as proper counterplay.

• Scarf Rufflet can outspeed Ivysaur/Tangela
• Vullaby can't get Sleep Powdered
• Webs can even the playing field against Sun, making most of their mons easily outspeed and OHKO'd
• CB Fraxure First Impression isn't awful and can revenge kill stuff
• Hakamo-o can avoid getting Sludge-Bombed and resists all of Ivysaur and Tangela's moves

With all of this information, I think one would assume that Sun is this omnipresent threat that is always around the corner about to own someone. I'd argue, however, that it doesn't quite get enough usage to be proclaimed "busted". It's definitely good, and it has a lot of solid MUs. Yet, until it gets more usage and becomes a prominent playstyle, I think it should remain as is. At the moment, it's a solid anti-meta strategy, and I don't agree with Jett that it's a bad thing that "it allows either players to cheese wins against teams which aren't well equipped for it, or in some cases left worser players beat better players if they solid enough mus". That's just Pokemon and HO in general. Not only that, but nobody has run Sun consistently outside of No Titans outside of myself and maybe one other person. Until it becomes more prominent in the metagame, I say we should leave things as is.

 

[Jett]

Hey frens, back again with my thoughts and this time on sun, which the post above does outline my views of it being something I don't regard to be particularly healthy, and would prefer its removal (or Ivysaur's removal).

:ss/golbat:
One of the biggest reasons why Sun isn't brought as often as it is, is because of the presence of Golbat, which is arguably an unhealthy presence in the metagame with the absurd amount of Pokemon it is able to soft check/render useless. Now this post isn't meant to focus on Golbat but this is worth nothing because if arguments are referring to the fact that Golbat keeps Sun in check, but is also a cancerous presence against other arcehtypes/Pokemon, which should be more than enough reason why both Golbat and some aspect of Sun is deserving of a suspect test (not necessarily ban worthy because Golbat does bring a lot of upsides too but I can't say the same for something like Sun apart from diversity).

:ss/hattrem: :ss/mareanie:
Now some thoughts on parts of Tox's post:

SpDef Hattrem is another possible defensive answer. It's able to avoid Sleep Powder due to Magic Bounce and can threaten it with a combination of Nuzzle, Psychic, and Mystical Fire. However, it's also able to switch into Ivysaur directly. Mareanie suffers the same issues, being able to prevent Ivysaur from setting up with Haze, however, it's unable to switch-in and can't directly threaten Ivysaur with any attacks.

+2 252+ SpA Ivysaur Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 244+ SpD Eviolite Hattrem: 184-217 (57.8 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Ivysaur Solar Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Mareanie: 220-259 (72.6 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Click to collapse...

This post does recognise while these are plausible answers, they still lose to Ivysaur in the end but I want to emphasise that Hattrem is never specially defensive and can only check Ivysaur once, as the post mentioned, while Mareanie can stop it setting up with Haze but Ivysaur can still break past it because of the fact its forced to Haze. There are some nicher Pokemon which completely fall apart against Raboot and Wartortle both common staples of sun such as Carkol, but defensive counterplay as a whole does exist, but is limited to a small selection of Pokemon.

:ss/vullaby: :ss/kadabra:

There are a few offensive answers to Sun that prevent it from being a completely busted playstyle. Sash Kadabra and Scarf Raboot come to mind immediately, the first being able to threaten Ivysaur and Tangela with it's Sash set, always living one attack and being able to strike back with a Psychic or Thunder Wave/Encore depending on what you go for. Scarf Raboot always outspeeds Ivysaur under Sun and can OHKO it with Flare Blitz. Tangela still lives a Flare Blitz under Sun but it can 2HKO it with a combination of U-Turn/FBlitz and since it's running Chlorophyll > Regenerator, you can chip it fairly easily. Pikachu can stall Sun turns with Fake Out, but it can't really threaten Ivysaur or Tangela with any attacks. Lampent is something else that can improve a team's matchup versus Sun, but Ivy and Tang always run enough speed to outspeed Scarf Lampent. Eviolite is a decent item on it to always live attacks from either, but it's also prone to getting Sleep Powdered. There's some more stuff down in the B-rank that can work as proper counterplay.

• Scarf Rufflet can outspeed Ivysaur/Tangela
• Vullaby can't get Sleep Powdered
• Webs can even the playing field against Sun, making most of their mons easily outspeed and OHKO'd
• CB Fraxure First Impression isn't awful and can revenge kill stuff
• Hakamo-o can avoid getting Sludge-Bombed and resists all of Ivysaur and Tangela's moves

Click to collapse...

Vullaby is an amazing defensive answer to Sun, which I spent forever searching for in the defensive paragraph above lmao. It will most likely replace Golbat on teams (see no Titans Tour) as one of the main Defog users (although Defog bat sucks compared to Taunt Super Fang). Similar to Golbat though, its weakness to Stealth Rock and vulnerability to status and Knock Off can make it difficult to reliable check threats on sun over the course of the game. I often find it being worn down because im forced to switch into Sludge Bomb and get poisoned (although Sludge Bomb is becoming less common nowadays due to 4MSS), and then basically have to waste a bunch of turns using Roost and losing momentum just to preserve my defensive answer to Sun, when using Vullaby. As for offensive answers, the only Pokemon here I consider even solid and common is Sash Kadabra, although Life Orb is its better set in my opinion, but nevertheless is the bane of many Sun teams. Haka will never be used because of the presence of Golbat, Fraxure's only used set as Swords Dance Scale Shot, Scarf Rufflet can easily be crept by Ivysaur and Tangela if they run enough investment, and the only Rufflet set which has been used recently is a specially defensive Bulk Up set which in theory isn't a bad answer to Ivysaur. Finally for Pokemon which in theory would make solid choice scarf users like Raboot and Mime, and would actually revenge kill Ivysaur, how often will you actually be using these Pokemon and is it worth it for the sake of just the sun matchup. Inevitably when you prepare for something like Sun, you will weaken your matchup against more standard bulky offense and balance teams.

:pancham: (why pancham, you'll understand on the next line)
Now for the penultimate part, we are going to do the vooper special and refer to the tiering policy. There are two parts that I want to focus on:

V.) Team matchup management is a part of the game.

• This means we have to accept that it's possible we will be at an advantage or disadvantage from the very beginning.
• With optimal team building skills, the pool of options (Pokemon, moves, items) present in the tier should allow you to build teams addressing the different team archetypes at least decently and offer a solution in-battle to a large majority of the principle threats of the metagame.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IV.) Unhealthy - elements that are neither uncompetitive nor broken yet are deemed undesirable for the metagame such that they inhibit "skillful play" to a large extent.

• These are elements that may not limit either team building or battling skill enough individually but combine to cause an effect that is undesirable for the metagame.

Click to collapse...

Sun being one of the closest archetypes in the metagame and being weather based, is inherently going to be matchup fishing and will grant one player a decent advantage a lot of the time depending on how many adequate sun answers the opposition has. It can be argued that with proper teambuilding Sun can be answered without giving up much in other matchups but I feel this can be attributed to the heavy reliance on another Pokemon in Golbat. Most other options as I have addressed, are not underexplored but are too niche to be used on most teams. That being said Sun does have answers and you can slap some of these blanket checks/common offensive Pokemon onto every team if you really want to because they aren't that hard to fit onto most balance and bulky offense teams. My problem with this is that I find that lines up exactly with limiting teambuilding and being forced to use these Pokemon in order to have answers to sun while still being solid against other team archetypes. I also still believe that because so many players do neglect having the most "sunproof" teams because it gives up too much in other matchups or leaves you running the same mons over and over again, matchup fishing becomes a much bigger problem. I feel other forms of HO have far more answers since they utilise Pokemon which are also featured in bulky offense teams (Raboot, Thwackey etc.), whereas the same cannot be said for Sun specifically. I do not buy arguments that just because Sun is not used much (because of one Pokemon) it should not deserve a suspect; Sun is very similar to Pikachu which some people including myself regard to be unhealthy/broken. Pikachu's best answer is everpresent in Tangela, Sun can still deal with Golbat and usage isn't the only metric for unhealthiness since Pikachu isn't the most splashable when you compare it to another Electric-type in Electabuzz which is probably used more often.

:ss/ivysaur: :ss/vulpix:
Lastly, I wanted to quickly discuss, if Sun was to be suspected, what part of it do I think deserves it. I think there are only two real candidates, that are Ivysaur and Vulpix (or I guess Drought if you really want to keep Vulpix that will do 0 in the metagame without its ability). In the past we've seen Sun not be broken albeit pretty much never used because Ivysaur was banned, and I still believe that Ivysaur is pretty much the sole reason why Sun is so strong at the moment. While I have not experimented much with manual sun or Ivysaur self setting sun sets, for the time being I feel that without Ivysaur, Tangela would easily be a viable Sun abuser especially, if Golbat ever gets banned since this is the Pokemon that "holds back Sun the most".

Thanks for reading a Jett post with 0 prior planning.

 

[Eris]

NFE Research Week 2

Decided to go with Seadra this time around as I have been using Machoke the entire generation already and didn't feel like it was out of my comfort zone at all. Still going to talk about Machoke a bit because I do disagree with what has been said about it in previous post and even the research week description. I don't think Gurdurr and Machoke are as similar as they are portrayed in this metagame. They do very different things and the only part where one outclasses the other is through Forb sets and even then there are arguable advantages of using Machoke over Gurdurr in a better Speed tier.

:machoke::gurdurr: Both of them offensively are not given an easy time in the current meta with Tangela, Golbat, Koffing, and the endless list of checks but nonetheless they act differently. Machoke functions as a much more direct wallbreaker through better coverage, speed tier, and Dynamic Punch which is its best selling point. Better versatility in movepools through different coverage options in Heavy Slam, Earthquake, Bullet Punch, and Encore allowing it to better pick and choose who it needs to beat which differentiates it enough from Gurdurr who I see as much more limited in those areas. Gurdurr is too slow and passive to be putting out effective pressure in terms of wallbreaking, the need to be using both Bulk Up and Drain Punch to get through threats is what sets it back a ton, and then being heavily reliant on Mach Punch to clean is just very limiting. You have no reason to lock yourself on a Choice Band, and not running Bulk Up will limit you even more in getting revenge killed hence why it is mainly used as a Defog Tank nowadays. Machoke is much more reliable in coming in, pressuring, and getting a kill, it will hardly ever be useless on a well-built team, especially when paired with hazard spam which has great compatibility with Dynamic Punch. I think this is pre straightforward in how they act differently already but as I said I don't think the metagame is just very kind to either as it is now. tldr yes they share similar checks but they work and bring different aspects to your team, trying to compare them is just silly because they function very differently.

:seadra: Anyway, I really like this dude but being a Water-type in this meta is very tough. I think it's very match-up fishy (get it? cuz it's a fish) where sets will be more effective against different builds but I think against the general metagame Choice Scarf is the best set. I have no doubts that Choice Specs and Focus Energy sets can work effectively against bulkier builds but common and faster threats like Electabuzz, Raboot, Kadabra, Mr. Mime etc will often make you regret not using a Choice Scarf. I think it's a fun mon nonetheless and if it weren't for it being under a spotlight right now, the element of surprise is definitely there. It does lack a bit of direct power however where you do end up relying a lot on entry hazards and Knock Off support which isn't hard to get in this tier but still holds a lot of pressure back. It also is challenging to place where you want to use it throughout the entire game but in many scenarios, you just cannot and so it kind of ends up being useless and in many situations, you will sacrifice it for a teammate to come in and revenge kill. All in all, fun mon still, and I enjoyed using it again this week.

The team I used:
:seadra: :ivysaur: :piloswine: :klang: :Pikachu: :golbat:

I do think this project kinda holds team compositions a bit so there are a few aspects that were really only built for this project and not dying to opposing Machoke or Seadra teams. I had timid Seadra the entire time to outspeed Modest Seadra and Klang is like the best Seadra switch in too so it def can be replaced though I did actually really enjoy the slow pivoting it offered Seadra with as it is a bit of an awkward Pokemon to place. I think another change that can be made is Golbat to Gurdurr where I had Golbat for Machoke mainly and Gurdurr kinda betters the Piloswine mu. I do think the team is fine as it is but just in case one would want to tweak it, I would replace those only.

replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1299978445
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1299970178
(was doing something else at the same time and made a dumb misplay but if I didn't then Seadra would have done its job)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1298120379-0rbplfen21yh6ien1g74covhdqdqarkpw

 

[hayedenn]

This is a three-part post so be prepared lol. New mons at the bottom!

This week I used both, but I'll focus on Seadra in this post. I used predominantly choiced sets on Offense and honestly it was pretty lackluster lol. The best strategy I found was to pair Seadra with another offensive water-type (in this cause Wartortle) and use both to break down common walls and then clean/sweep at the end. Here's the team I used (:seadra: :wartortle: :electabuzz: :thwackey: :Mr. mime-galar: :gabite:). I will be frank, I don't think this team is very good and I didn't have a lot of time to work on this due to exams. But, I think this dual-water core has some potential and with some more testing I think it can be viable.

The issue with Seadra is that while it has good offensive stats, its movepool is very bare and having Ice as your only coverage is not good, especially in tier like NFE where we have so many Water and Ice resists. And, while it has some advantages to Wartortle in it's higher Speed and Special Attack, those aren't big enough advantages to use Seadra over Wartortle in most situations, especially since Wartortle has Shell Smash, Rapid Spin, and Zen/Aura Sphere as coverage options that hit things that would otherwise wall Seadra (Mareanie and Ferroseed).

Onto this bad boy :machoke:. Uh....I like it I guess? It's cool and powerful and Dynamic Punch is busted, but I don't feel strongly about it as a mon. Read Jett and Marjane's posts

Anyways, thank you everyone who submitted this week! Here's a quick summary of each mon, compiled from your responses. Thanks so much for these excellent, well-written posts!

Machoke
+ Dynamic Punch is stupid
+ Good coverage moves and movepool
+ Faster than Gurdurr
+ Hardly ever has games where it's "useless"
- Lacks Drain Punch, Taunt, and STAB priority move
- Struggles to compete with Gurdurr for a team slot due to lacking Defog


Seadra
+ Good power, can run either Scarf or Specs (possible FE as well)
+ Surprise factor due to lack of usage
- Requires hazards to deal actual damage
- Struggles to switch in due to requiring non-Eviolite sets to be effective
- Bad movepool

Anyways, onto the next cycle! Marjane and Jett will be included in Cycle 2's Hall of Fame!

For this cycle we have...

Specs Klang! As it says in the Smogon analysis, "When equipped with a Choice Specs and boasting the insanely powerful Steel Beam backed by a solid Special Attack stat, Klang is the true definition of a wallbreaker." Klang is a very solid choice in the current metagame due to it's SpDef and Offensive Shift Gear sets, however, is its Specs set able to make a splash as well? We'll see!

Dartrix is next, and it's largely been ignored this DLC. However, it still has a solid movepool and good offensive typing, including Knock Off, Defog, Roost, and Knock Off. Let's see if this bird is able to fly back into the metagame, or if it will be relegated back to the flock of Pre-DLC 2 mons that are bad now :(

In order to participate you must do the following:

• Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched!
• Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using; participate in the discussion!
• Post logs of this Pokemon in action against other teams - show rather than just tell
• The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the most votes by the time the challenge ends
• Winners will also receive a permanent spot in this thread's Hall of Fame :]

Sample Discussion Template

Sprite/Video/Banner/Image/(Not mandatory]
Introduction (Doesn't need to be long)
Set(s)
Discussion(Pros/Cons/Replays/Calculations)
Conclusion

 

[Jett]

I was pretty busy this week so this post is gonna be a bit briefer than the others I've done so far regarding research week. This week I picked Dartrix and went for a physically defensive set, with Grassy Glide on a non-Thwackey team. My thought process was you'd be able to check Thwackey every time, except for Acrobatics variants, as long as Stealth Rock aren't up. Quick note about Specs Klang, is it sucks. Any time you have a special wall like Mareanie, Ferroseed, or Marshtomp, or just a Ground-type + Steel-resistant Pokemon, this thing will do nothing. Its so slow and weak; the surprise factor is not worth it at all. Anyways back to the grass bird.

:ss/Dartrix:

set

Dartrix @ Eviolite
Ability: Long Reach
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Knock Off
- Roost
- Leaf Blade / Toxic (Basically I'm bad and forgot about Grassy Terrain and Grassy Glide prio not working on non-Grounded targets targets, ty greybaum)

As for the team, the paste can be found by clicking on the mini-sprites
:Dartrix: :Wartortle: :Piloswine: :Gurdurr: :Electabuzz: :Raboot:

As we know Thwackey (as well as the Electric-types) make Wartortle a significantly more risky choice on teams that aren't sun. Dartrix gave me a way to counter Thwackey although it kinda sucks to have a Grass-type that doesn't resist Electric-type attacks. I opted to build around Wartortle anyways since I hadn't used it in a while and then added the standard hazards and hazard control, and speed control and pivots in the last 2 slots in order to give the team some sort of free momentum. I think I'd honestly would have much rather had Tangela or Ivysaur in the Dartrix slot but it wasn't awful to use itself.

Dartrix vs Other Grass-types

+Has Sucker Punch, but I didn't use it
+Has Defog, but I didn't use it
+People don't know what to expect?
+Best matchup into Thwackey out of all the Grass-types
+Immune to Spikes

- Does not resist Electric-types
- Weak to Stealth Rock
- Quadruple weak to Ice-types
- Slower than Tangela
- Ability doesn't do much compared to other Grass-types

replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1306110038-755eb56m1eyx3cotviuiuesv7h9mwzmpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1306110311-iwizxurtncbsy7wyrslqzhboa66r3u5pw

Maybe I should have tried an SD set, but honestly, I haven't been that impressed with Dartrix defensively. There was only one game where it tanked a +2 Thwackey Acrobatics + recoil damage from its Brave Bird while KOing the Thwackey, but other than that it's been underwhelming. Much better off using other defensive Grass-types instead of Dartrix. Hopefully, someone else decided to find out if it had anything worth using for its offensive sets.

 

[Greybaum]

:ss/klang:
tried using specs klang and it went about as well as i thought it would (i.e. not very well)

Any time you have a special wall like Mareanie, Ferroseed, or Marshtomp, or just a Ground-type + Steel-resistant Pokemon, this thing will do nothing. Its so slow and weak; the surprise factor is not worth it at all. Anyways back to the grass bird.

Click to collapse...

honestly this sums it up. slowpoke/mareanie/a lot of things result in klang being deadweight offensively and defensively it doesn't offer much at all outside of a golbat switchin which really isn't sufficient on its own in this meta imo. doesn't help that the mons that hard counter you aren't the easiest to hit with knock off so you end up not finding many opportunities to chip/weaken them

https://pokepast.es/4ea9c683cf780342
i built this team based around sd thwackey & klang because it's a breaker that generates free turns off golbat and i wanted to make the most of that. hattrem/marsh/koffing is a mediocre defensive core and golbat is half an everything soft check. it's also the main tangela switchin (because klang/koffing really can't do that lol) assuming i don't need the extra speed control (you usually won't) and the main sun counterplay. i quickly realised it was a bad team anyway though and refurbished this very old team from pre-dlc https://pokepast.es/f92bba371e6b4051 and made a few adjustments to it to update it a bit. i wouldn't recommend using either of them seriously. no replays because i didn't think to save the ones where it clicked flash cannon into a marshtomp 5 times and there weren't any positive ones

+switches into golbat
+can sometimes be put in a position to lure gurdurr/tangela
-dead weight in a lot of matchups
-unable to reliably answer psychic types leaving you strained to fit in answers elsewhere
-chip damage (especially from u-turn) often makes your lure attempt obvious
-shares almost all of its answers with the physical shift gear sets meaning you rarely get a suprise kill outside of the aforementioned tangela/gurdurr matchups

 

[hayedenn]

I was busy with midterms this week so I didn't get much time to utilize :dartrix:, but from what I could see the SD set wasn't awful (I went with Knock/Sucker/BBird as the attacking moves). I paired it with Taunt Magmar in order to help break steel-types and other walls and it worked decently. I think my main issues with Dartrix is its low speed, but Sucker helps remedy that. Overall, my impression is that it functions decently as a surprise mon that can beat Tangela and has a favorable mu against Gurdurr, but I think its niche is minimal, especially when Thwackey exists.

My team: :dartrix: :marshtomp: :clefairy: :metang: :magmar: :gurdurr:

Onto the summary for this week, thank you to those who did participate!

Dartrix
+ Has Knock Off and Sucker Punch, and Flying is a good offensive STAB
+ Has access to Defog
+ Uncommon Pokemon to use
+ Immune to Spikes
+ Has a good matchup against Thwackey for the most part
- Does not resist Electric-types
- Weak to Stealth Rock if not using HDB
- If using HDB, it's bulk is pretty mediocre
- Quad weak to Ice-types (so it can get revenge-killed by Piloswine)
- Slower than Tangela if using a defensive set
- Ability is of questionable use

Specs Klang
+ Can switch into Golbat
+ Has decent bulk, even without an Eviolite
- Has a lot of bad matchups
- Can't check the things it's usually able to with an Eviolite
- Gets chipped easily
- Does not get surprise kills often

Onto the next and final cycle of NFE Research Week. Jett and Greybaum will be inducted Cycle 3's Hall of Fame!

For this cycle we have...

Combusken! Combusken has been a mainstay throughout past generations of NFE, but it's failed to make much of an impact in DLC 2. Will this chicken be able to make a comeback, or will it be banished back to the shadow realm of S1nn0hC0nfirm3d's teambuilder? Let's find out!

Lastly we have Karrablast Rufflet! We already know how potent Rufflet's Sub + Bulk Up set is, so this week I'd like for you to use any non-Bulk Up Rufflet set!

:rufflet:

sample set

Rufflet (M) @ Choice Band / Choice Scarf
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Aerial Ace
- U-turn
- Close Combat

In order to participate you must do the following:

• Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched!
• Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using; participate in the discussion!
• Post logs of this Pokemon in action against other teams - show rather than just tell

Sample Discussion Template

Sprite/Video/Banner/Image/(Not mandatory]
Introduction (Doesn't need to be long)
Set(s)
Discussion(Pros/Cons/Replays/Calculations)
Conclusion

Thank you all, and happy posting!

 

[S1nn0hC0nfirm3d]

Speed Boost is a great ability, but it's in a bit of a weird place in NFE with how bulky the metagame is and the preference for priority attackers rather Choice Scarf revenge killers. Nonetheless, Combusken outspeeds the entire unboosted metagame after a single Protect, and it only needs an extra turn or two to outpace even some of the fastest Pokemon like Chlorophyll Ivysaur. So with all this untapped speed potential, what can we do with Combusken?

Combusken @ Leftovers
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Protect
- Substitute
- Flamethrower

ToxicTect is a cool option for Combusken to clean late-game once its counters are removed. This set is also is a workaround to would-be checks like Mashtomp and Slowpoke that attempt to switch into Combusken, only to then succumb to Toxic stalling. In this perspective, losing coverage moves or boosting options isn't the worst as Toxic stalling is sometimes just as effective. This set of course works wonders with Toxic Spikes support, and it will also need wallbreaking teammates like LO Kadabra, Choice Specs Electabuzz, and NP Galarian Mr. Mime to break through Poison-types like Golbat and Mareanie. Wallbreakers are also mandatory to break through Clefairy, Duosion, and Rest Hattrem, as Toxic + Flamethrower is worthless vs them; Choice Band Lairon, anyone?Once the coast is clear, get Combusken in on say an Eviolite-less Tangela and either punish the Marshtomp / Lampent switch-in with Toxic or fire off Flamethrowers to clean.

+Protect guarantees Combusken will outspeed the unboosted metagame, notably nailing Galarian Mr. Mime and picking off Focus Sash Kadabra.
+Due to the fear of Swords Dance sets (especially with Thunder Punch), Combusken can force switches and lure in threats like Marshtomp and Gabite that are prime targets to be Toxic stalled.
+Combusken resists Thwackey's Grassy Glide, Raboot's Sucker Punch, and Piloswine's Ice Shard. Protect also makes Pikachu's Fake Out worthless. As long is it retains its bulk, most priority is inefficient at revenge killing Combusken. Leftovers' passive recovery with Protect, especially also with the common Grassy Terrain, allows Combusken to stay near a good bulk to prevent priority revenge killers.
+Substitute is a great setup move vs Pokemon with inefficient coverage for Combusken like Tangela, Klang, and Ferroseed. This makes it more plausible to land a Toxic on its checks mid-game or to secure a Substitute late-game for cleaning.
- Combusken is weak, so anything that doesn't mind Toxic or can outstall Flamethrowers will easily counter this set. Unfortunately for Combusken, many relevant walls Golbat, Rest Hattrem, Clefairy, Mareanie, and Magic Guard Duosion all counter this set. It will make virtually no progress on its own vs its counters and thus will need these foes completely eliminated or bulk-less to have a chance against them.
-Combusken lacks switch-in opportunities due to its over reliance on Leftovers and lack of Eviolite bulk. If the team ever loses momentum, Combusken falters in the face of Pokemon it's could otherwise pressure like Marshtomp, Ivysaur, and Slowpoke. This is especially true late-game when Combusken is left without an opportunity to use Substitute, as something like a healthy Marshtomp will just EQ for a KO.

On the VR, B rank is where Combusken sits, and I think that's still a fitting ranking for it. If anything, B- would be alright too. There's totally a lot of perks for a set like this but cons here are often really tough to build / play around. There's also just better Fire-types and cleaners compared to Combusken and its inconsistency.

 

[Jett]

:ss/Rufflet:

While Bulk Up is the most common Rufflet set, and Choiced sets have been experimented countless times across two generations, I decided to steal a set that Ho3nConfirm3d S1nn0hC0nfirm3d made in February. I did make one change however, which is instead of Eviolite, I used Heavy-Duty Boots instead (although I think both are solid options).

Rufflet (M) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Close Combat
- Defog
- Aerial Ace

The idea of this set is based off Galarian Mr. Mime, which is an offensive Pokemon that doubles up as a form of hazard removal thanks to Rapid Spin, although Rufflet is a lot slower, but brings a lot more immediate power in comparison. Close Combat nails Flying-type resists that expect Rufflet to be some Choice Scarf set as they see Brave Bird, and with calcs they can figure out it isn't Choice Band. Close Combat also dissuades many Stealth Rock users so you can opportunities to click Defog. Aerial Ace is just for when you need guaranteed damage, although you could run U-turn, but I don't think it is something you wanna click very often.

:rufflet:
+ Surprise factor, as Defog isn't used on Rufflet normally.
+ Significantly more threatening than other Defog users, which are often very passive and reinvite entry hazard setters to switch back in (Gurdurr being the main exception here).
+ More immediate power than Bulk Up sets, isn't Choice locked like other common sets. Close Combat is very good against the common Flying-type resists especially with the ability to switch moves
- Very frail without Eviolite, but Stealth Rock hurts its longevity if it is not Heavy-Duty Boots. Easy to revenge kill and lack of switch-in opportunities without pivots.
- Can have difficulty Defogging so must be a secondary Defog user or on a team that isn't super hurt by letting Stealth Rock up for example.
- Can unfortunately miss sometimes.

Overall, a very fun Pokemon to use, that actually was worthwhile using for once (aside from Machoke ig). The paste of the team I used is here:
https://pokepast.es/7544fc6de477b565 I'm probably gonna figure out better teams to use this on in the near future.

 

[hayedenn]

:combusken:

I used Specs Combusken this week, set down below. I thought it was a really neat Pokemon, able to do some big damage early/mid-game and (hopefully) clean at the end

Combusken @ Choice Specs
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Flamethrower
- Focus Blast
- Vacuum Wave

Basically, you switch this in on something defensive that u arent scared will Knock u Off and then click Fire Blast hoping they'll switch into a physical wall that you can body. Neat set, functions as a decent lure, but obviously gets bodied by Mareanie and Lampent.

252 SpA Choice Specs Combusken Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Hattrem: 175-207 (55 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Combusken Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Golbat: 171-202 (48.4 - 57.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Combusken Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Gurdurr: 232-274 (62 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Combusken Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Koffing: 253-298 (89 - 104.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+ Good lure that can 2HKO a lot of Pokemon
+ Can function as a decent wallbreaker
- Bad movepool
- Gets walled by common Pokemon
- Loses a lot of utility if it gets Knocked


The team - :combusken: :raboot: :hattrem: :marshtomp: :ferroseed: :golbat:
Literally just Jett's Time for Tea RMT but with Combusken over Lampent

Onto the weekly round-up! Thanks to those of you who participated

Combusken
+ Speed Boost paired with Protect means Combusken go fast
+ Can lure in stuff with other sets since most opponents are going to be expecting Swords Dance
+ Decent defensive typing, meaning Combusken resists stuff like Grassy Glide, Sucker Punch, and Ice Shard
- Kinda weak without a boosting move or item
- If running ToxicTect, a lot of stuff is immune to Toxic
- Hard to switch into stuff

Non-BU Rufflet
+ Surprise factor
+ Choiced sets can nab some KOs by either outspeeding common checks or by doing a lot more damage than expected (with a Band)
- Frail without an Eviolite
- Defog sets can struggle to actually Defog
- Hustle misses :(

This is sadly the last week of NFE Research Week. Thank you S1nn0hC0nfirm3d and Jett for participating, and hopefully, there will be another project/event coming soon! Thanks to everyone who participated over these four weeks, it was a lot of fun!

 

[hayedenn]

UMPL WEEK 1 NFE RECAP

Hellooooooo everyone. Hope everyone participating in this UMPL had a great first week. We had some really interesting teams brought this week along with some great games, so let's get to it!

I don't yet have the usage stats of this week, but looking at the replays, my general thoughts are: Golbat had a solid 50% usage, along with Piloswine being used on 7/12 teams. Raboot was also used pretty frequently, along with Ferroseed. Some surprises (although I understand it is only week one lol) were that Hattrem, Tangela, Duosion and Corsola-G were only used on 1/12 teams :O I'm excited to see what everyone brings next week!

King Leo V
:raboot: :gurdurr: :electabuzz: :golbat: :corsola-galar: :sliggoo:
vs
:ferroseed: :raboot: :piloswine: :golbat: :slowpoke: :Pikachu:
tlenit

We started off this week pretty early on Tuesday with this match between two high-level NFE players. tlenit brought a more "standard" Volt-Turn team with Choice Band Raboot as a neat tech, along with Slowpoke, Pikachu, and U-Turn Golbat to round out the core. Leo brought some Volt-Turn as well, but also included Sliggoo (!) on his team as an interesting Sun check and general special wall.

I don't have any specific thoughts on this game. Tlenit's team was VoltTurn perfection and Bandboot matched up very well against Leo's team, which lacked any solid checks to Pika + Raboot. Tlenit had the better matchup and he played well enough to bring it home.


pileosand
:kadabra: :raboot: :tangela: :vullaby: :ferroseed: :drakloak:
vs
:golbat: :gurdurr: :carkol: :duosion: :Mr. mime-galar: :tangela:
frisoeva

Our first major upset of the tournament! Pileosand brought a solid balance team with Substitute (!) Kadabra along with some cool anti-meta stuff like Infestation Tangela and Drakloak. I believe frisoeva brought their own team, sporting Carjane along with I think Scarf Golbat and SpDef Regenerator Duosion.

In general, similar to the first game, this was just a bad matchup for Friso. While he had a solid SpDef wall in his Duosion, Kadabra was able to take advantage of his generally slower team and just wallbreak, while Drakloak was able to para his Scarf Golbat early. Along with that, after he let his Tangela and Carkol die, he didn't have a great Ferroseed answer, and was unable to break it with Duosion (and due to it being Regen, Ferro was able to recover from all of its attacks with Leech Seed). Overall, a solid UMPL debut from pileosand, showing their talent. I don't think this is indicative of any future performances from friso, they still have really solid support from 85/monsareeasy and should be able to recover in the future weeks (hopefully not against my team tho pls)

stresh
:tentacool: :piloswine: :clefairy: :ferroseed: :electabuzz: :golbat:
vs
:lairon: :thwackey: :wartortle: :piloswine: :koffing: :vullaby:
professor tox

The Lord decided to punish me in my first team-tour debut and put me against stresh. In all seriousness though, this was a solid game even if I did get bodied. Stresh brought some really interesting Piloswine balance, with a fast Tentacool as his grounded poison and some VoltTurn action with Electabuzz + U-Turn Bat which ended up being critical to his victory later. I brought some CB Lairon offense, with Thwackey + Tort along with a defensive core of Pilo/Vull/Koffing.

Not a whole lot to say about this game even though it was my own. I think both of us had good matchups, and stresh did a great job of preventing my Lairon from switching in. Eventually stresh was able to get into a U-Turn Bat -> Electabuzz loop, preventing me from doing anything and I had a critical misplay at the end where I went into Lairon instead of Wartortle, and stresh cleaned with Ebuzz

Skysolo
:raboot: :ferroseed: :kadabra: :golbat: :marshtomp: :Pikachu:
vs
:thwackey: :raboot: :vullaby: :ferroseed: :clefairy: :piloswine:
Ho3nConfirm3d

Both players brought similar but still different teams in this pseudo mirror-match, with both teams containing Raboot + Ferro + Flying-type defog user + Ground-type + threatening Prio-user.

Skysolo had the advantage here imo just simply due to his Raboot matching up against Ho3n's team, especially after his Clef got knocked. No shade to either, but I didn't find this game to be particularly eventful. Skysolo played the better long game and just stacked hazards on Ho3n's side, wearing down his team over many turns and just being bulky with his Golbat that Ho3n wasn't able to beat.

Fille
:kadabra: :thwackey: :piloswine: :klang: :mareanie: :gurdurr:
vs
:wartortle: :golbat: :magmar: :piloswine: :ferroseed: :hattrem:
Rav3ndan

In a game that was played way too early for my American-self, Rav beat Fille in a fairly one-sided game. Rav brought a more standard Magmar BO team with Hattrem/Pilo/Ferro while Fille brought a nifty Klang pseudo-offense with some threatening mons like Kadabra and Thwackey.

Fille had a very poor Magmar matchup (lmaow when will yall learn Mareanie is not a Magmar check) and went down early, losing their Klang and getting chipped hard on Mareanie. I don't think Rav really had to do much in this match as it almost seemed like his team had an answer to everything Fille had, and he just proceeded to wear everything down in a very smart way over the course of 43 turns. Not much to say, Rav's team was very well built and I think Fille's team just wasn't as bulky as it should have been, even for offense.

Greybaum
:Pikachu: :magmar: :slowpoke: :gurdurr: :ferroseed: :koffing:
vs
:piloswine: :golbat: :raboot: :slowpoke: :ferroseed: :Pikachu:
Monsareeasy

In the last game of the week, late-sub Monsareeasy defeated Greybaum in a really close game. Greybaum brought a cool Magmar/Pika T-Spikes team while Arctic used an almost identical team to tlenit's earlier in the week with some changed sets.

This battle was almost like a rollercoaster, with Greybaum going up early and really pressuring Arctic with his Taunt Magmar and some hazard stack, but over the course of this battle However, after losing his Gurdurr, Greybaum didn't have any counter-play to Arctic's Ferroseed and the match slowly went Arctic's way. Overall, a really solid match to end this week and I think showing that despite his hatred for Gen 8 NFE, Arctic is still a formidable player when he chooses to be.

Week 2 Matches

Gliding Grookeys vs. Aesthetic Articunos

SS NFE: frisoeva vs tlenit
SS NFE: 85percent vs professor tox

Mankey Monkes vs. Star Road Lunala

SS NFE: Skysolo vs King Leo V
SS NFE: ojr vs xavgb

We Sawk! vs. Zealous Zweilous

SS NFE: S1nn0hC0nfirm3d vs Greybaum
SS NFE: Rav3ndan vs pileosand

Some very exciting potential matchups this week! After last week's games, it seems like anything can happen. Personally, I'm excited to see the rubber between Sawk/Zwei as I feel both Ho3n and Greybaum are both really innovative builders, however I also think Skysolo/Leo will be a lights out match along with friso/tlenit.

Also, feel free to add to anything I said or put in your own thoughts with some discussion, notes on the games you played, or anything else you feel about this past week! Ofc predictions will probably go in the Week 2 thread, but you can also cover that here!
​

 

[elleapple]

the prophecy fulfilled....

 

[hayedenn]

UMPL WEEK 2 NFE RECAP​

An interesting set of games with some creative teams and close games coming down to rolls. I've really been enjoying what we've seen so far! If I had to pick a stand-out set this week it'd probably be Skysolo's CB Zweilous that really put in some work, or Leo's CM Corsola-G that we, unfortunately, did not get to see pop off but I was really intrigued by. This week we saw Golbat claim it's spot on the top of the NFE usage stats, with Tangela also rising in conjunction with a drop in Ferroseed usage. Machoke came through with that 100% win rate across its two games (which ofc don't read into too much) with Kadabra and Wartortle both having their win rates plummet.

(click on the teams for my best guess at their sets and such, click on vs for the replay)

frisoeva
:gurdurr: :machoke: :ferroseed::golbat: :hattrem: :lampent:
vs
:piloswine: :golbat: :slowpoke: :raboot: :Pikachu: :ferroseed:
tlenit

In the first game of the week, friso was able to defeat tlenit. Offensively I really like friso's team, I think double fighting is a fairly underdeveloped core that I think is able to put in work against teams with a slower defensive core like tlenit's. tlenit brought the same team he did last week, a VoltTurn team with CB Raboot + Pika. The game itself was solid, with tlenit going out to a strong 6-3 lead and chipping friso's last three mons. Friso is able to pull the game back, however with tlenit making an honestly bizarre play, sacking Pikachu to the Gurdurr Mach (he assumed it wasn't Mach?) and then friso slowly pulled the game back in his favor before winning with his Hattrem.

85percent
:kadabra: :lampent: :tangela: :wartortle: :piloswine: :gurdurr:
vs
:slowpoke: :electabuzz: :tangela: :piloswine: :koffing: :vullaby:
professor tox

In a repeat of our seasonal game that didn't end up happening, 85 and I played a really solid match that I ended up coming out on top of. I really liked 85's team, he brought a Kadabra-Lampent offense with double removal while I brought a psuedo-VoltTurn team with Thief Koffing and Offensive Tangela. Unfortunately for 85 this was just a really bad matchup for him defensively, and I grabbed momentum from him early on in the game and limited his switchins into Kadabra and Lampent. I just kept pivoting into Slowpoke and bringing in Tangela, where I was able to grab a kill almost every time I switched in.

Skysolo
:zweilous: :klang: :electabuzz: :golbat: :marshtomp: :gurdurr:
vs
:golbat: :piloswine: :ferroseed: :linoone-galar: :corsola-galar: :wartortle:
King Leo V

Skysolo's teams, when they aren't ugly balance, tend to be pretty interesting and I think this CB Zweilous + Shift Gear Klang team really cements that. There isn't really all that much to say about this game tbqh, I think the obvious fact is that Skysolo was very lucky to not miss a move with Zweilous the entire match but at the same time, Leo's switch-ins were pretty limited and that was just exacerbated by the fact that Strap didn't miss a move lmao. The game wasn't all that close because Leo wasn't really able to get any sort of offense going due to the pressure from Zweilous but I think that was largely out of his control as well.

ojr
:Mr. mime-galar: :tangela: :golbat: :wartortle: :clefairy: :machoke:
vs
:hattrem: :marshtomp: :corsola-galar: :koffing: :electabuzz: :ferroseed:
stresh

In the second major upset of the tournament ojr was able to defeat stresh. At first look stresh brought a really fat team to this game, but in reality he brought some really nifty sets that just didn't really work out, such as offensive Superpower Marshtomp. ojr had a really great matchup here that he exploited nearly perfectly, weakening and spreading Knock Off to stresh's potential Wartortle switchins and trapping Ferroseed before finding a safe time to bring in Wartortle for the sweep. GGs to him, hope he does well in every game except the one he has this week x)

Ho3nConfirm3d
:Pikachu: :golbat: :marshtomp: :roselia: :ferroseed: :kadabra:
vs
:gurdurr: :wartortle: :electabuzz: :ferroseed: :golbat: :tangela:
Greybaum

I don't really have much to say about this game tbqh. Ho3n brought a more out of the box offense with Specs Roselia and Kada/Pika while Greybaum brought a more standard double-grass BO. TPunch Gurdurr was an interesting tech from Greybaum but I'm not quite sure if it really helped him here, and while Ho3n did get lucky with the Sleep Talk pulls from Marshtomp and those SpDef drops at the end, I think the margins for a win here were pretty small and both played well.

Rav3ndan
:wartortle: :kadabra: :tangela: :piloswine: :vullaby: :raboot:
vs
:electabuzz: :thwackey: :piloswine: :gurdurr: :golbat: :hattrem:
pileosand

In a game that came down to the closest of margins, pileo was able to continue their strong start in this UMPL with a W over Rav. Both teams were pretty interesting, with some VoltTurn action on pileo's teams with one of my favorite cores of ThwackBuzz while Rav had a really creative KadaBoot team with Vullaby. Both played really well, with Rav perhaps getting a tad haxed at the end with the speed tie + Focus Blast hitting but idk, that's just RNG

Week 3 Matches
[AA] Quagg vs Skysolo [MM]
[AA] professor tox vs ojr [MM]
[WS] Ho3nConfirm3d vs frisoeva [GG]
[WS] Rav3ndan vs 85percent [GG]
[ZZ] pileosand vs King Leo V [SL]
[ZZ] Greybaum vs Hys [SL]

Exciting bunch of games this week! There are some redemption stories and some players trying to ride the waves of their success from the first two weeks and it'll be fun to see how everything shakes out. My highlight of the week has to be pileo/Leo. Pileosand has been playing some really solid mons these first two weeks with wins over two great players, while Leo has had a much slower start with two losses (against, granted, two amazing players). It'll be interesting to see whether pileo can continue their success or if Leo can perhaps end their Cinderella story.

Also, feel free to add to anything I said or put in your own thoughts with some discussion, notes on the games you played, or anything else you feel about this past week!​

 

[Jett]

Hey frens, the SS NFE council is conducting a public survey to gauge public opinion on the current metagame. Anyone with a Smogon account is free to respond. You will have until May 8th Saturday 11:59 EST to complete the survey if you want your opinions to be factored in. After that, we will release the results of the survey and from there, we will discuss future tiering actions in preparation for OMPL (potentially a suspect test) depending on the results.

Please respond to the survey here! If you have any questions, feel free to shoot me a PM on Discord (Jett#1234). Just for clarification sake: the 1 - 10 scale for the metagame questions, 10 means you enjoy the metagame/find it competitive and 1 means you do not.

 

[Jett]

We have hit the deadline for the first SS NFE Tiering Survey. We received 26 responses which is great, so we will consider doing another one in the future. I appreciated everyone who participated in this survey, and I thoroughly enjoyed reading through all of them. Now onto the important stuff, the results!!

On a scale of 1-10, how much do you enjoy the current metagame?

Graph

The average response was a 7.15/10, meaning that most players are enjoying the metagame. The lowest response was a 3/10 while multiple people responded with a 9 or higher so there responses to this question were quite varied.

On a scale of 1-10, how competitive do you find the current metagame?

Graph

The average response was a 7.38/10, meaning that most players find the current metagame competitive. The metagame is viewed to be slightly more competitive than it is enjoyable on average. The responses here were more centralised around 6 to 8 with 80% of the votes lying between those numbers. Overall, this is a pretty good outlook for these two questions since there haven't been changes to the metagame for a while now.

On a scale of 1-5, how healthy is Kadabra?

Graph

The average response was a 2.77/5, meaning Kadabra is seen as slightly unhealthy. The most notable thing here is that players in UMPL ranked Kadabra as more unhealthy than those who are not on average.

On a scale of 1-5, how healthy is Pikachu?

Graph

The average response was a 3.42/5, meaning Pikachu is seen as quite unhealthy. This was the highest average response of the four, with over half the people voting a 4 or more. It is interesting that there are so many people who put 2 but many of these people either believed that the metagame was fine as a whole in comparison, or that another Pokemon/aspect of the metagame in particular should be dealt with first

On a scale of 1-5, how healthy is Tangela?

Graph

The average response was 2.58/5, meaning that Tangela is seen as slightly unhealthy. Many people viewed Tangela as the least problematic of the four, with a few exceptions.

On a scale of 1-5, how healthy is Sun?

Graph

The average response was a 3.12/5, meaning Sun is seen as quite unhealthy. Sun had the highest number of people voting a 3 or higher at 72% but overall was lower than Pikachu. The opinions on Sun were still quite split with some people finding it fine, while other people wanting some part of it being suspected or banned.

Are there any Pokemon in the current metagame that you believe deserve a suspect test?

The playerbase currently supports a suspects, with a majority of 73.1% saying Yes. While there are plenty of opinions on what should be suspected, the overall community believes that the metagame can either be improved or freshened up with a suspect test.

The next two questions were both optional, and they allowed for free form responses, so I will use this as an opportunity to take note of some trends within those responses:

- Despite its low score, more than a fifth of the people felt that Kadabra should be suspected first meaning that people very much split on Kadabra being the healthiest of the four or the most unhealthy of the four.

- Pikachu was also brought up a fair amount due to its offensive presence being difficult to switch into, but not as much as expected considering it was the overall most unhealthy Pokemon.

- Sun was seen as unhealthy mainly because of the teambuilding aspect. People had different opinions on whether Ivysaur, Drought, or Vulpix should be the target.

- Golbat was mentioned by several users as being the best suspect target despite the fact Golbat had just been suspected and had an overwhelming Do Not Ban majority.

- A couple mentions of entry hazards being overly centralised and obnoxious to deal with, given how matchup dependent hazard control can be.

Finally, some of interesting responses in particular can be found below:

Arctic:

Cool User:

You might be on to something.

Thanks frens!!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With all of this in mind, and after some further discussion between council members, we have decided that we will be conducting a Pikachu suspect test shortly, so be on the lookout for that thread in the next couple of days! Thank you again to everyone who responded and we'll definitely consider doing another survey in the future.

Unfortunately I'm ending this post on a sad note as Marjane is stepping down from NFE council. Marjane was the longest standing council member, and the only user that I've worked with for the entire time up till now. I'm super grateful that I had the opportunity to work with her for so long as she was an exceptional member of the council. Definitely sad to see her go, but she's done a lot of work for NFE and I'm sure she'll do continue to do great things in whatever she chooses to spend her new found free time in.

 

[Mirbro]

Hello NFE!

In this current post I would like to showcase a bit a team I have been using lately with some success on ladder (like 65 spot) and roomtours. I think it is kind of fun and it is an approach to semi-stall. I am pretty sure there are ways to improve it, ergo, I will be glad to hear from you any advice on it. I will also do some noms:

Duo Dance Semi-Stall

Teambuilding

:Duosion:​

So the initial pick was Duosion. I was told that Duosion was an underrated Pokémon and, as Reuniclus in OU, it is a good wall for semi-stall with double dance set to get some sweeps. Its great special bulk altogether with Iron Defense and Calm Mind are amazingly good to wall many of the special attackers of the tier. Physical attackers can also be walled if Eviolite is conserved and after one or two Iron Defenses. Stored Power or Psychic are nice to click after some Calm Minds. I was told by 85percent that Psychic could be useful in some matches as you do not need as many Calm Minds as you would need if running Stored Power to deal some consistent damage. Magic Guard and Recover just wrap up this Pokémon as an amazing pick for semi-stall.

:Duosion: :Koffing:​

Then, I wanted to go with TSpikes. However, I did not want to get them bounced in front of my face. With Hattrem around, I chose Koffing over Mareanie as its ability allows it to set TSpikes when Hattrem is in the opponent's team. Moreover, Koffing is a great Thwackey and Fighting-type Pokémon check (Gurdurr, and Machoke). Finally, Sludge Bomb and Pain Split were quite annoying as you could deal some damage and restore some HP. Neutralizing Gas helps too erasing some items of the opponent's Pokémon. I can see here Thief being useful too.

:Duosion: :Koffing: :Corsola-Galar:​

I added a Ghost-type Pokémon that could block Rapid Spin from Wartortle. And this Pokémon was Corsola-Galar which is a great mixed wall for any team. With Night Shade can deal consistent damage. Strenght Sap helps for HP recovery and worning down physical attackers in a similar way as Will-o-Wisp. Finally, it is our rocker which is an important role for any stall team.

:Duosion: :Koffing: :Corsola-Galar: :Hattrem:​

Hattrem was initially the only way of entry hazard removal with its Magic Bounce ability. In addition to this, it has good physical bulk and its RestTalk set with Giga Drain and Psychic can deal most of the times with Piloswine which is one of the best rockers of the tier currently.

:Duosion: :Koffing: :Corsola-Galar: :Hattrem: :Tangela:​

S tier Pokémon that helps against many of the physical attackers and Pikachu which is a team destroyer. Tangela is absolutely necessary in any NFE semi-stall team. Knock Off and Giga Drain are musts. However, Sludge Bomb and Leech Seed can be exchanged with Synthesis, Toxic, Sleep Powder. Some more offensive spreads can be also helpful.

:Duosion: :Koffing: :Corsola-Galar: :Hattrem: :Tangela: :Vullaby:​

Finally, I added another entry hazard removal and a check for both Lampent and Kadabra which were really good against this team. Its moveset was Knock Off, Roost, Defog and U-Turn/Foul Play.

After some games I realized a couple of things: 1) I was practically clicking TSpikes in 20% of the games I was playing, and 2) Vullaby was not that good and it was not useful at all as entry hazard removal.

:Duosion: :Golbat: :Corsola-Galar: :Hattrem: :Tangela: :Klang:​

Koffing was exchanged by Golbat as this S tier Pokémon could help on entry hazard removal and stopping thins like Raboot. It has some speed to cripple Thwackey. Klang was also added to help on the special part and as a second wincon. However, this change implied worsening the matchup against Lampent which is the worst threat of this team.

Threatlist

:Lampent:
This beast can Trick one of your Pokémon and then can go over both Duosion and Klang. It is a lost matchup. In the first Pokepaste with Vullaby you can have some ways to play against it if Vullaby is tricked then nothing to do.

:Raboot:
Bulk Up Raboot is amazingly good too and it can only be dealt with Golbat although not always. Be aware of entry hazards.

Dark-type Pokémon
Well, they completely wall your main wincon which is Duosion making it totally useless.

Sun
Great Sun teams and played properly are unwinnable. However, Duosion can try to CM before opponent's Pokémon start to sweep your entire team.

And that's it, you will find the Pokepaste in the final spirtes of the Pokémon. I would like to do some shoutouts to NFE people that is always around: Shing'n Streets, 85percent, professor tox, Simbo, Jett. Hope you enjoy the team!!

Nominations

Ups

:Duosion: B+ -> A-
I really think this Pokémon is really good at the moment with so many Dark-type Pokémon around. Both Future Sight and Double Dance sets pressure a ton the entire tier.

:Metang: C+ -> B-
I am enjoying this Pokémon right now with a Psychic spam team. Choice Band set hits quite well and it does supereffective damage to top tier Pokémon with its movepool: Golbat (Zen Headbutt), Pikachu (EQ), Gurdurr (ZH), Electabuzz (EQ), and Piloswine (Meteor Smash). It has low speed but it presents priority move with STAB such as Bullet Punch.

Downs

:Togetic: B- -> C+
I do not practically see this Pokémon around anymore. Some flexibility on sets but anything else. Highly pressured for top tier and mid tier Pokémon such as Pikachu, Golbat, Sun-based Pokémon, and so on.

And that's it. Thanks for reading as always and cya Pokémaniacs

 

[hayedenn]

UMPL WEEK 3 NFE RECAP

Golbat continues to be by far the most consistently used Pokemon this UMPL, with it and Piloswine being the only mons with 50% or higher usage every week. From what I was able to see, these have all been Taunt or Defog Bats (no NP, sad!), so it'll be interesting to see if people try and innovate much with their sets as UMPL continues or if people are comfortable sticking with the most common sets. Side note, I won't have pastes of the team this week. I've been busy moving and I just finished finals (which is why this post is late) but I'll try and have them for next week, but they do take a while so I may also not do them again lol.


Quagg
:electabuzz: :thwackey: :hattrem: :koffing: :marshtomp: :vullaby:
vs
:thwackey: :Mr. mime-galar: :golbat: :klang: :seadra: :piloswine:
Skysolo

QuaGGs and Skysolo (I believe) started off our week with this really entertaining game between two high-level players. Skysolo brought the GOAT Seadra, which didn't really do much while QuaGGs brought a more standard Marshtomp balance with a ThwackBuzz offensive core.

Skysolo had a really good matchup here, and was perhaps unlucky that his specs Gime got its item stolen since it went in otherwise. QuaGG did face some hax early on with a freeze on his Electabuzz which was fairly important as he had to Healing Wish it later. Both played very well though and both had chances to win with some 50/50s going Skysolo's way (which were GOATed plays) but I think QuaGGs should still be incredibly happy with his performance as he really brought this game back from the brink.

professor tox
:Pikachu: :magmar: :hattrem: :thwackey: :corsola-galar: :ferroseed:
vs
:lairon: :tangela: :kadabra: :piloswine: :hattrem: :golbat:
ojr

This past week I played ojr in a really tight game. I did have a really good matchup here, as his fire-type switching was a SpDef Lairon and his team was fairly slow as well outside of Kadabra and Golbat. I really liked ojr's choice of Banded Piloswine, which I think is a really underrated set in the current meta as its switchins are fairly limited. I will be frank and say that I wasn't a huge fan of the Life Dew Hattrem or the defensive Lairon, but I get what he was going for.

The game itself was really good imo, although some of the plays I made were bad (going for Taunt on the Bat I know was dumb) and perhaps I played in a very roundabout way to a win (90 turns + when I had a great mu) but a W is a W. Much props to ojr for staying in it and clawing back after some of my bad misplays.

frisoeva
:kadabra: :Pikachu: :raboot: :slowpoke: :tangela: :piloswine:
vs
:tangela: :golbat: :marshtomp: :ferroseed: :kadabra: :lampent:
Ho3nConfirm3d

I don't really have much to say about this game. Both played very solid, but Ho3n had the much better matchup with his Kadabra having basically no switchins on friso's side. GGs all around but I felt that friso didn't really have much counterplay, although he did play well to mitigate this.

Rav3ndan
:Pikachu: :golbat: :gabite: :gurdurr: :duosion: :ferroseed:
vs
:koffing: :hattrem: :piloswine: :lampent: :thwackey: :electabuzz:
Monsareeasy

Similar to friso vs ho3n, Rav brought the Future Sight Duosion which just completely owned Arctic's team for the most part. Arctic did well to mitigate this later and could have won with the proper hax on the last turn. Rav had some cool techs on his team, including Shadow Ball Duosion and SpDef Golbat which both helped him win later on which is nice. I think this match really exemplifies how not having more than one form of removal is harmful in the current metagame. With Duosion, Rav was able to heavily pressure Arctic's only Psychic-resist to where Hatt became overwhelmed, allowing for Rav to start stacking hazards later on and get the W

pileosand
:kadabra: :wartortle: :vullaby: :tangela: :marshtomp: :electabuzz:
vs
:corsola-galar: :golbat: :clefairy: :gurdurr: :raboot: :electabuzz:
King Leo V

One (kinda) misplay really influenced this game, with Leo being very fortunate to have a one-turn wake when Pilo switched into her Kadabra on his Gurdurr which proceeded to get Knocked and died. Kadabra had a very good mu against Leo's team so pileo losing it early on put the nail in her coffin, and while she did play well to bring it back kinda, it wasn't enough.

Hys
:Mr. mime-galar: :tangela: :mareanie: :vullaby: :piloswine: :Pikachu:
vs
:gurdurr: :mareanie: :electabuzz: :golbat: :piloswine: :thwackey:
Greybaum

Greybaum proved in this match that Electabuzz, when it doesn't miss, is by far the most broken mon in the tier. While both played well, the fact that Focus Blast hit every time really set Hys's gameplan back. I don't have all that much to say outside of that, I really liked Greybaum's Covet Mareanie tech, which I found really nifty while on Hys's side I thought Taunt/Defog Vullaby to be very fun.

Highlight Sets

:mareanie:
Mareanie @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
- Covet
- Recover
- Toxic
- Scald

It's overall consistency and potential viability are sus, but I really enjoyed this set from Greybaum. Covet is a really fun move to add onto anything, so adding it to something that often takes a lot of Knocks such as Mareanie is a cool way to go.

:kadabra:
Kadabra
Ability: Magic Guard
- Taunt
- Psychic

Usually a move such as Encore/Knock Off/Seismic Toss is run in that fourth slot on Kadabra, so I found Taunt to be a really creative move to use on Kadabra in order to mitigate common switch-ins such as Ferroseed or Vullaby.

:piloswine:
Piloswine @ Choice Band

Banded Piloswine has been something I've been trying to work with for a while so seeing this brought by ojr in a tour-level match was really exciting to see. It's able to 2hko a LOT of stuff due to Earthquake being such a spammable move, and CB Ice Shard is a really strong priority move.

Week 3 Matches

[SL] King Leo V vs Monsareeasy [GG]
[SL] Hys vs frisoeva [GG]
[MM] Skysolo vs Greybaum [ZZ]
[MM] ojr vs pileosand [ZZ]
[WS] Ho3nC0nfirm3d vs tlenit [AA]
[WS] Melancholy Hills vs OranBerryBlissey10 [AA]

More very exciting matches this week! I'm personally most excited for Ho3n vs tlenit, two very good players with interesting building styles. ojr vs pileosand is also interesting, as they're both very underrated and both are really trying to leave their mark on this tournament. This is also melancholy's and oran's first NFE games this tournament, so it'll be fun to see what they both bring this week!

Please feel free to add to this thread with discussion, predictions, highlight matches, notes on played games, or anything else! :]​

 

[Jett]

UMPL NFE Game Highlight
​

Hey frens, I guess I'm a little late. I floated the idea of doing some slightly more in-depth analyses of the games I enjoyed the most from UMPL, and with tox bugging me enough (thank you for getting me to eventually do this), I finally got round to it. This week, I wanted to cover my favourite game of the tournament so far which was the match between Quagsgone and Skysolo in Week 3.

:articuno: quagsgone vs Skysolo :mankey:
Replay
(Click minisprites for my best guesses on what the team pastes were based on the replay)
:electabuzz: :thwackey: :hattrem: :koffing: :marshtomp: :vullaby: vs :thwackey: :mr. mime-galar: :golbat: :klang: :seadra: :piloswine:​

Quagsgone opted for a much safer standard Toxic Spikes Balance team, while Skysolo has opted for a more unconvential Bulky Offense which even includes an unmon in Seadra making it the more interesting of the two. I think the matchup is pretty even; Electabuzz and Toxic Spikes have pretty good match ups on quags' side while Solo's Galarian Mr. Mime has no solid switch-ins.

Important Turns
​

:koffing: Turn 3: Skysolo makes a good switch here covering both Toxic Spikes and Thief. Koffing went for thief and is crippled since it has obtained Choice Specs, but this also weakens the Galarian Mr. Mime significantly, which had a solid matchup just to spam its Ice-type STAB attack (it later revealed it had dual Ice STAB). Koffing ended up being near useless in this game, never finding an opportunity to set up Toxic Spikes, which I think woulda been extremely good against Solo's team.

:mr. mime-galar: Turns 8: Skysolo gets his Mime in against the Koffing once again, essentially giving it another free attack. Quagsgone switches in his Electabuzz which can avoid being 3HKO if it is under Grassy Terrain, but unfortunately gets frozen. As highlighted previously, Electabuzz is one of quagsgone's best tools in this game, so this freeze was extremely pivotal and this forces quagsgone to use Hattrem's Healing Wish much earlier than he would have liked.

:seadra: Turn 28: I'm a little surprised quagsgone switched here as the Seadra is revealed to be Eviolite because of the damage rolls, meaning Electabuzz could have easily gotten a free hit off here. While Seadra was near useless, it was allowed to Flip Turn into Golbat to clear away the Stealth Rock which would have made it extremely difficult for Solo to navigate given how worn down some of his team is already. Seadra being preserved was also an important sack for Solo a few turns later.

:thwackey: Turn 41: Solo reveals some heat here with Leech Seed on Thwackey, on the expected Koffing switch-in, which amounts to Thwackey recovering around 25% of it health back over 2 turns. This would be quite important later on as it quags managed to land a Toxic on it with Marshtomp to try a chip it down again.

:thwackey: Turn 50 & 53: Both quags' Electabuzz and Solo's Thwackey are in KO range. On both turns, Solo gets the correct read going for U-turn twice and this allows him to pick off quags' low health team one by one leading to his win shortly after. The additional health on turns 40 and 41 would prove to be extremely important here as it allowed Thwackey to able to make this series of plays as it otherwise wouldn't have been able to pivot in and out multiple times, and then also clean the game.

​

While Skysolo did end up getting some luck against quagsgone in this game, I don't think many players would have been able to to use that to their advantage, given how well quags bounced back from the initial freeze. This game is still a great game showcase of why Skysolo is arguably the best SS NFE player at the moment and I am looking forward to his future games seeing as he is currently 3-0 in UMPL.

 

[ArcticBreeze]

:kadabra:How is your heart after breaking mine?:ivysaur:

With OMPL around the corner the metagame needs changes; beyond just a Pikachu ban. The current metagame conceives an unhealthy paradigm around accepting that you will always be weak to top metagame threats. While it is true that you can not prep for every Pokémon or core, you should always be able to cover the most common Pokémon effectively. Mitigating these weaknesses in the builder is undeniably a skill, however in my time playing and spectating the current metagame I have not seen anyone build a team that mitigates these weaknesses to the point where the metagame could be considered healthy. This is not a shot at the community, the number of threats is too vast and restricting combined with the opportunities to come in freely thanks to the tier's amazing VoltTurn users, such as Electabuzz, Golbat, Raboot, Thwackey, Vullaby, and Slowpoke. In this post I intend to argue for the quickban of the threats I find to have the most unhealthy influence on the metagame currently; Kadabra and Sun.

:Kadabra::Kadabra::Kadabra:

Kadabra has always been an eminent part of NFE and it is no different now. It has an amazing ability with sky-high SpA and Speed and coverage that at worst hits everything in the metagame neutrally. This combination is both unhealthy and broken. Kadabra's best counter, Ferroseed often is overwhelmed being one of the few checks other prominent Pokémon within the metagame. Beyond this is an even bigger issue for Ferroseed, the lack of reliable recovery. It is often hard to get a Leech Seed off without losing momentum; a loss of momentum often gives Kadabra a path to come back in. This leads to Kadabra smoothly 4HKOing with Shadow Ball or a few safe Psychics and some hazards. Seismic Toss and Night Shade have also been a dark horse in Kadabra's expansive tool kit doing 34% to Ferroseed. SpD Vullaby is another common oust to Kadabra, but it too is not a impenetrable wall. Dazzling Gleam from Kadabra 2HKOs Vullaby after a Knock Off or Stealth Rocks damage. Klang deserves a mention as Spd sets can comfortably switch in a few times just like Ferroseed. Klang also loses less momentum and value by running RestTalk sets. Klang however still struggles to deal with Kadabra after a Knock Off or if Kadabra is a Life Orb variant. Klang also makes less progress than Ferroseed can due to the lack of Spikes and Knock Off which can be detrimental to creating a proper win-path. Other than this Kadabra's counterplay consists of making risky predictions to pivot in checks such as Linoone-Galar or using priority moves to win the 1v1. The most common Pokémon deploying the second tactic get worn down quickly. The most common examples of this are Thwackey and Piloswine with Raboot deserving a mention however it can't switch in. I have been avoiding mentioning Pikachu as I fully expect it to be banned, but FakeSpeed Pikachu is a solid revenge killer to Kadabra. Kadabra undeniably exacerbates the restrictiveness of the current metagame by forcing all teams to have one of a few select cores to even have a chance against it.

:Vulpix::Ivysaur::Charmeleon:

I personally do not find Sun to be broken, however I know a few others do and I can completely respect that. I find Sun's biggest issue to be its unhealthy impact on the metagame. With the weather condition up Ivysaur becomes a menace and requiring your team to prepare extensively for it. Other Pokémon such as Charmeleon and Magmar become massive powerhouses too. Wartortle even gets a small yet noticeable buff thanks to Weather Ball. There are some Pokémon known to be great against Sun such as Lampent, Hippopotas, Hakamo-o however the former is often hard to fit onto teams and the latter is not that great; Hippopotas is somewhere in between. Sun's more common and good counters SpD Brave Bird Golbat and Vullaby require Hattrem to be consistent against Stealth Rocks which is very restrictive. Sun is not uncounterable but in a metagame struggling to answer all the common threats it needs to go. It doesn't add enough to the metagame to be worth keeping while making teambuilding utterly impossible.

How Sun should be banned is absolutely up for question, but the difference between the options is a fine line. We could ban Ivysaur, Vulpix or Drought. I am not going to spend too much time arguing about this because as I mentioned it really is just a fine line. I would personally ban Drought because I have a vendetta against Sun and see no reason to ban Vulpix, however the most popular option among those who I have talked to is banning Ivysaur which is Sun's best and most unhealthy user.

TL/DR: We need to quickban Pokémon as OMPL is soon and the metagame is unhealthy. I find Kadabra to be broken and unhealthy. Similarly, I find Sun to have no positive impact on the metagame while being another unhealthy aspect of it.

​

 

[hayedenn]

UMPL: Regular Season in Review​

Mild apologies in advance for not writing anything for Week 4, I started a new job recently and it makes me tired af whenever I get home so I just didn't feel like writing anything last week. This week I decided I'd rather write a regular-season wrap-up of UMPL than a dedicated Week 5 post so here we go!

Teams Ranked by Overall NFE Record
:articuno: 6-4
:mankey: 6-4
:lunala: 5-5
:sawk: 5-5
:grookey: 4-6
:zweilous: 4-6

Players Ranked by Overall NFE Record

rankings

monsareeasy: 3-1
ojr: 3-1
professor tox: 3-1
Skysolo: 3-1
S1nn0hC0nfirm3d: 3-2
xavgb: 2-1
Rav3ndan: 2-2
Greybaum: 2-3
King Leo V: 2-3
lepton: 2-3
hys: 1-1
tlenit: 1-2
frisoeva: 1-4
Fille: 0-1
melancholy hills: 0-1
velvet: 0-1
85percent: 0-1

edit: disclaimer, ho3n didn't help me write this at all or anything i just stole his pre-draft rankings cus he also made one and i wanted to provide someone else's opinion

:lunala: Star Road Lunala :lunala:
tox's pre draft grade: A+
ho3n's pre draft grade: 1/5

Individual Player Records
xavgb: 2-1
King Leo V: 2-3
hys: 1-1

Lunalas had by far the most expectations on their NFE players going into UMPL and I think they easily underperformed the most out of any team. Drafting one of the best, if not the best NFE player stresh along with Leo, who has had a lot of success in NFE over the past however long was supposed to be a guaranteed recipe for success. They also had hys, who recently won NFE No Titans so they had a great "backup" as well. Unfortunately, they were unable to capitalize on their draft, and I did have my worries for them going into this tournament, partly due to stresh saying multiple times that he lacked interest in NFE's current metagame along with Leo's most recent NFE results being, well, not so great. Still, I do think they underperformed at least relative to the quality of players they had.

:grookey: Gliding Grookeys :grookey:
tox's pre-draft grade: B+/A-
ho3n's pre draft grade: 2/5

Individual Player Records
monsareeasy: 3-1
frisoeva: 1-4
85percent: 0-1

I can't really say that Grookeys underperformed relative to their player level, rather friso underperformed and Arctic overperformed. I still think I guess that this should have been a group that went at least even, perhaps 6-4. However, you can't make players do well, and this poor record isn't due to Grookeys drafting poorly, rather someone doing much worse than they really ever should have considering how good friso is relative to the rest of the NFE pool. Still, I'm happy that Arctic was at least able to carry Grookeys NFE squad and hopefully they'll do better (just not if they make it to finals and play us :> )

:articuno: Aesthetic Articunos :articuno:
tox's pre-draft grade: A
ho3n's pre-draft grade: 3/5

Individual Player Records
professor tox: 3-1
oranberryblissey10: 1-0
quagg: 1-1
tlenit: 1-2

I think Articunos both overperformed and underperformed. I will say that I think I overperformed a little bit, winning all my games (so far) bar stresh. I do think tlenit should have done better, similar to friso, and underperformed against his opponents whom he should have been able to beat. I'm glad Oran was able to make an appearance for the Cunos, winning one of the most low-quality NFE games I've ever seen in my life against melancholy hills (?). We also saw QuaGGs make an appearance, only losing to GOAT Skysolo. Hopefully QuaGGs makes more SS NFE tournament appearances but I know he hates the meta so x) Overall, good showing by the Cunos

:sawk: We Sawk :sawk:
tox's pre draft grade: B
ho3n's pre draft grade: N/A

Individual Player Records
S1nn0hC0nfirm3d: 3-2
Rav3ndan: 2-2
melancholy hills: 0-1

This record from the Sawks is pretty deceiving imo. If a couple of turns of RNG went Rav's way he could just as easily have gone 4-0. Rav has shown himself (i mean u should have known already) to be a really consistent player in SS NFE and while he technically has gone 2-2, he's much better than this shows and as I touched on a sentence ago, it's due to factors out of his control. Ho3n has also done well this UMPL, only losing to strap and leo. I was perhaps too harsh on them in my post-draft preview, if I were to go back and grade this now I'd have probably given them an A-. Regardless, their 5-5 record doesn't tell the whole story, and in a different timeline this could be a 7-3 squad.

:mankey: Mankey Monkes :mankey:
tox's pre draft grade: A
ho3n's pre draft grade: 4/5

Individual Player Records
Skysolo: 3-1
ojr: 3-1
velvet: 0-1
Fille: 0-1

I mean what else can I say about Mankeys other than that I was right LOL. Strap and jr have the best starter record of any duo in the entire tournament, with them going a combined 6-2 with the other two losses being from subs. Funnily enough, I do think they could have done even better, with their losses imo due to bad matchups and iffy teams. I think this tournament has really cemented Skysolo as being one of the most consistent, high-level NFE players and for jr, hopefully it leads to a little bit less disrespect towards him :>

:zweilous: Zealous Zweilous :zweilous:
tox's pre draft grade: B/B-
ho3n's pre draft grade: 5/5

Individual Player Records
Greybaum: 2-3
lepton: 2-3

I hate to say that I think Zweis performed to the best of their ability because I know both of them would not exactly be happy with their performances this tournament, however, I do think that they had by far the weakest NFE draft and performed to about expectations. They failed to get a big name player such as stresh/friso/tlenit (yeah I know none of them played well but they were perceived as being top tier before the draft) and relied instead on two solid mid-tier players. Granted, I think that worked out alright for them and no NFE team this tournament (so far) has been able to clearly stand out from the rest. Considering the Zweis were able to get an identical record to a team that broke the bank on friso (Grookeys), I think it worked out. I think drafting extra NFE support would have helped this pair a lot, considering Greybaum built most if not all of their teams which probably burned him out a fair amount, but they still did well and both were able to get some great wins, against friso for lepton and Skysolo for Greybaum.

Conclusion
That's about all I have to write for now. I'll maybe write a playoffs recap, but I also wanna do a teamdump which will also take a lot of effort to write so we'll see (: