NFEs in the NU Tier

Magmar is imo, a shaky check to Jynx. A weakness to Stealth Rock and other form of entry hazard with no recovery aside of Wish(from teamates), its low physical defense even after an Eviolite boost, and being easily 2HKO by Psychic from Jynx on the switch with some entry hazard up (which is easy to do in a tier where Rapid Spinners are bad (except Wartortle, but its mostly used on stall team and has to play mindgames with foresight to get a spin off)) or some prior damage, which isn't hard to do.

Ofcourse, Magmar will win against Jynx if it safely switch on it with full health, but it can't stop Jynx from switching out, unlike Skuntank (Pursuit/SuckerPunch mind games), Liepard (Pursuit/U-turn), and other Pursuit users. Finally, while Vital Spirit is cool to avoid Lovely Kiss and such for a Jynx's check, the same can be said by using Lum Berry or Sleep Talk on some of your Pokemon if you are scared to make one of them useless by letting them fall asleep.
 
Kadabra @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Trick
- Hidden Power [Ground]

Kadabra is too frail to be a boosting sweeper. As the pinnacle of glass cannons, it should be able to do fast hard damage. So, just slap a choice scarf on and watch kadabra fly. Unchoiced kadabra holds its own any way with base 115 speed, but runs into too many situations in which it is out sped by another, more bulk poke. Life orb is ok, but Kadabra still has that punch with 125 base SpA. Kadabra also has trick so you can cripple big foes with no problem.
 
Back to sneasel, i like to run a gimmicky flinching anti-lead

215.gif
@kings rock
trait: inner focus
252 atk 252 spe
jolly nature
-Beat Up
-Taunt/Pursuit
-Ice shard/Pursuit
-Brick Break/Ice Punch/Pursuit

This is quite an annoying little rat, as you lead off with him and maybe taunt their lead or start spamming beat up, and if all your mons are alive, they have around 46.9% chance to flinch which can be really helpful at times and, from experience, can make them spam swear words, call you a haxer and rage quit. This set should really be used as a lead, where all your mons are alive so more powerful and more of a flinch chance but it can also be good at breaking (haunters) subs and hurting them after, also pursuit trapping or revenge killing with ice shard. There are other moves it can run, i like to have taunt on for leads and as a stall breaker also pursuit is good for haunter and kadabra and other psychic/ghosts. Ice shard is helpful priority to revenge kill scarfers. Also ice punch is a stronger STAB and brick break is used for better coverage.
 
GarchompPit said:
391_zps1854d2fd.png

All the Monferno sets that I think are viable or the best that it can run:
Monferno @ Focus Sash
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Modest Nature
- Encore
- Stealth Rock
- Vacuum Wave
- Fire Blast
~~~~~~
Monferno @ Focus Sash
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk
Hasty Nature
- Fake Out
- Stealth Rock
- Overheat
- Vacuum Wave
~~~~~~
Monferno @ Eviolite
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 Spd
Modest Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Vacuum Wave
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Fire Blast
~~~~~~
Monferno @ Eviolite
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Calm Nature
- Taunt
- Torment
- Slack Off
- Flamethrower
~~~~~~
Monferno @ Focus Sash
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Mach Punch
- Stealth Rock
- Endeavor
- Encore
~~~~~~
Monferno @ Eviolite
Trait: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Flame Charge
- Close Combat
- ThunderPunch​
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All of these sets are pretty outclassed by something else in the tier. Why use it as a Stealth Rock setter when there are plenty of other options, even NFE's, that set up rocks and more? Rocks and priority sound cool, but why use that over Piloswine which also get rocks and priority but also gets a multi-hit move, and very good bulk with eviolite. Why use it as a set-up sweeper, when even with eviolite, its bulk is still pretty abysmal? Monferno really wouldn't have much of a chance to set up on anything in the tier. It's just simply too frail, and its speed isn't even that great. There's a reason why its NU analysis was taken down. Its sets sound nice, they're only gimmicks at best.
 
HispanicPanic said:
All of these sets are pretty outclassed by something else in the tier. Why use it as a Stealth Rock setter when there are plenty of other options, even NFE's, that set up rocks and more? Rocks and priority sound cool, but why use that over Piloswine which also get rocks and priority but also gets a multi-hit move, and very good bulk with eviolite. Why use it as a set-up sweeper, when even with eviolite, its bulk is still pretty abysmal? Monferno really wouldn't have much of a chance to set up on anything in the tier. It's just simply too frail, and its speed isn't even that great. There's a reason why its NU analysis was taken down. Its sets sound nice, they're only gimmicks at best.
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So lets see.. ;p
Yes priority and rocks are something cool that I think only Poliswine has (on the NU tier ofc)!Also yes Poliswine gets all that but doesn't get other support moves like Taunt and Torment (Also Mandibuzz and Electrode can use this set!).As a set up sweeper it can be used because it has Nasty Plot and Swords Dance and Flame Charge for speed!(And also priority so you are not fearing opponents outspeeding you with their own priorities).I know that Monferno is pretty fail and I admit that on my analysis that I made 30 minutes ago :)! And yes I admit most of the sets are gimmicky but I just told you a lot of things that back up my arguments!Thanks! (And sorry if I made any grammar mistakes.English is my second language!)
EDIT: Forgot to add that if the opponent does not know about lead monferno with encore it can cost him a lot of problems(personal experience)
 
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HispanicPanic is 100% right. Ofcourse if they don't know one of your Pokemon runs a gimmicky set they might lose a Pokemon or two, which is exact for ANY Pokemon in ANY tier. Every Monferno's set you posted are totally outclassed. Again, I don't want to write a stupidly big text when Hispanic already said everything and sorry if this post might sound rude, but I feel like you tried these gimmicky sets once or twice were they worked, making you think they are good.
 
I dont want be rude either ! :/ But to be honest I tried this sets and with the right teammates this team was doing great in the ladder and got in a big winning streak (9 wins ..don't want to be cocky or anything just saying).I hope you understand and I don't want to start any arguments..Thanks!
 
Welcome to Smogon @GarchompPit ! I agree with Raseri (from the thread you tried to start) that the first set is probably the best set Monferno can run, as it can take advantage of all its good points (higher Speed than most other SR setters, priority, Encore/Taunt, and decent power). The other sets aren't really that effective, and the only value they have is a single use surprise value (hardly a selling point). Monferno doesn't have quite enough Speed or power to sweep, and trying to set up using its "bulk" is pointless. Combusken far outclasses Monferno as a Swords Dance attacker, and the only real positive I see in the Nasty Plot set is Vacuum Wave's priority. That Torment set is a gimmick at best since you are relying on a Pokemon with few useful resistances and terrible bulk with Eviolite. Saying that you used these sets successfully on the ladder is hardly impressive as it isn't that difficult to get winning streak with gimmicky teams (especially earlier in your laddering) if you are a competent player. Finally, all those Stealth Rock sets might as well be merged as they all want to do the same thing (Set up Rocks and do as much damage to the opponent as possible).
 
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Hey guys, what do you think of Lairon in NU? I haven't seen it for a long time, but it looks decent. A Choice Band set would just be outclassed by Relicanth, as Relicanth has better bulk, water STAB for stuff like Golurk, more Speed so it doesn't have to invest as much to outspeed Tangela/Alomomola, and a better typing (Steel is pretty redundant with Rock). With that in mind, an Eviolite set would probably be best for it.

Now the problem with Eviolite Lairon is... what does it beat? Pretty much everything is either special or hits it 4x, so it ends up not being able to beat much more than SubBU Braviary and Swellow. Its use seems pretty damn limited, but I'd probably go with a specially defensive spread. Special Defense investment would give Lairon what it needs to check. While Lairon's Special Defense isn't amazing, with investment, its special bulk is quite respectable, and it can still beat the physical threats it needs to. Specially defensive investment allows Lairon to beat threats like Choice Scarf Jynx and Serperior so much better. I don't really understand physically defensive Lairon, because the investment doesn't make much of a difference besides being able to live certain weak 4x moves, while specially defensive investment is much more useful overall. Unlike Probopass, specially defensive Lairon has Roar; unlike Bastiodon, specially defensive Lairon has offensive prowess.

Lairon's use seems pretty damn limited, but what kind of teams do you guys think Lairon fits on best?
 
DTC said:
Hey guys, what do you think of Lairon in NU? I haven't seen it for a long time, but it looks decent. A Choice Band set would just be outclassed by Relicanth, as Relicanth has better bulk, water STAB for stuff like Golurk, more Speed so it doesn't have to invest as much to outspeed Tangela/Alomomola, and a better typing (Steel is pretty redundant with Rock). With that in mind, an Eviolite set would probably be best for it.

Now the problem with Eviolite Lairon is... what does it beat? Pretty much everything is either special or hits it 4x, so it ends up not being able to beat much more than SubBU Braviary and Swellow. Its use seems pretty damn limited, but I'd probably go with a specially defensive spread. Special Defense investment would give Lairon what it needs to check. While Lairon's Special Defense isn't amazing, with investment, its special bulk is quite respectable, and it can still beat the physical threats it needs to. Specially defensive investment allows Lairon to beat threats like Choice Scarf Jynx and Serperior so much better. I don't really understand physically defensive Lairon, because the investment doesn't make much of a difference besides being able to live certain weak 4x moves, while specially defensive investment is much more useful overall. Unlike Probopass, specially defensive Lairon has Roar; unlike Bastiodon, specially defensive Lairon has offensive prowess.

Lairon's use seems pretty damn limited, but what kind of teams do you guys think Lairon fits on best?
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Lairon is arguably the pokemon most able to take on Mandibuzz: immune to Toxic and practically Foul Play, smashes with Head Smash and Roars out SubRoost variants. This could be useful for defensive teams that struggle with the vulture.
 
I actually saw a Lairon recently used as a suicide lead with rocks and custap sturdy endeavor. It was pretty cute since it crippled my balloon Probopass which I assumed had safely trapped it, so I guess it could be used on teams with priority that need bulky offensive threats removed early
 
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Yeah Galo Sengan said:
I actually saw a Lairon recently used as a suicide lead with rocks and sturdy endeavor. It was pretty cute since it crippled my balloon Probopass which I assumed had safely trapped it, so I guess it could be used on teams with priority that need bulky offensive threats removed early
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Actually the Suicide lead (endeavor) set is pretty good!So does the Suicide Lead with Custap berry and Head smash!
 
how does head smash work on a suicide lead (where you would presumably be using sturdy alongside with custap berry) and therefore take recoil and kill yourself? custap stealth rocking should usually be left to golem although i could see custap endeavor be particularly useful considering how mons such as sash endeavor monferno and archen have been pretty decent with said sets (altho never ever ever used).

edit: nvm i see that head smash can prevent spins i guess

anyways i just find lairon kind of uh having no purpose. the only thing i see in it as a mon like bastiodon but just hits harder which i guess is ok. most of the time tho in this offensive meta (on a non-stall team) id rather use probo because of the momentum it has via volt switch and id use bastiodon over lairon mainly just cause of lefties allowing it to take stuff like swellow, brav, or scarf jynx better than lairon does throughout a match. im thinking that an offensive rocks set with evio and head smash is its best set to separate itself better from the other steel/rock types in the meta.
 
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Annoyer said:
how does head smash work on a suicide lead (where you would presumably be using sturdy alongside with custap berry) and therefore take recoil and kill yourself? custap stealth rocking should usually be left to golem although i could see custap endeavor be particularly useful considering how mons such as sash endeavor monferno and archen have been pretty decent with said sets (altho never ever ever used).

anyways i just find lairon kind of uh having no purpose. the only thing i see in it as a mon like bastiodon but just hits harder which i guess is ok. most of the time tho in this offensive meta (on a non-stall team) id rather use probo because of the momentum it has via volt switch and id use bastiodon over lairon mainly just cause of lefties allowing it to take stuff like swellow, brav, or scarf jynx better than lairon does throughout a match. im thinking that an offensive rocks set with evio and head smash is its best set to separate itself better from the other steel/rock types in the meta.
Click to expand...
You might mixed up thing but I was saying A suicide lead with Sturdy custap and Head smash.As for bastiodon and probo yes I agree are better as walls and SRers. ;)
 
bobbyvaporeon said:
Lairon doesn't have Recovery, Skarmory is faster and has a better typing. That and it can also use Drill Peck.
Click to expand...
Uh, the custap skarmory doesn't use recovery, doesn't make particular use of its typing, and prefers brave bird as a pseudo spinblock at 1 HP.
I don't know much about NU, but custap berry lairon definitely seems like an interesting set, though lead fraxure and sawk sets will mess it up.
I was saying that lairon can really use head smash as it isn't too fast w/o custap, can hit hard and pseudo spinblock.
 
bobbyvaporeon said:
Head Smash would destroy Sturdy, so that Is pointless.
Click to expand...
Uhm you don't understand what we said..First you set up rocks AND because you are going to get knocked down to your sturdy with custap berry you can either use Head Smash or Endeavor if the opponent to bulky!The sturdy won't be broken because this is a suicide lead and first of all you are going to set up SR not Head smash away! ;) Hoped you understand! Thanks ;p
 
Golem has 2 main forms of damage: STAB Earthquake and Explosion. Lairon only has STAB Head Smash, which is also its suicide/spin-preventing move. If Golem has been left untouched for the turn, he can deal solid damage with Earthquake without instantly sacrificing itself. Lairon can't hit the opponent very hard without breaking its Sturdy should it remain intact after you setup (i.e. the opponent sets up alongside you), so while it is less "predictable", it isn't as effective.

In reality, STAB Head Smash would be sufficient in deterring the spin anyway, without the need to KO yourself. Even Wartortle leads are taking a lot from it if they want to spin the SR away, with the aim to KO them so you could set it up again. You could try Annoyer's set with Evio + Rock Head Head Smash, or you could just use the faster and non-Water weak Relicanth over it (To further rub it in, Relicanth also has Sturdy).
 
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I agree with Punchroom. I would just like to add STAB Rock Blast appears to be extremely effective too, for a really effective leader Golem.
 
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