No Guard Galaxy

MANNAT

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There's not many sample sets for this tier, so I'm gonna drop a few for you guys
Top-Tier Mon Sample Sets

S Rank Mons:

Whimsicott:
Utility
Whimsicott @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Encore
- Grass Whistle
- Moonblast/Hurricane/Giga Drain
- U-turn / Stun Spore
Subseed
Whimsicott @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold / Calm Nature
IVs: 0 HP
- Grass Whistle
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Filler

Whim Sets stolen from I like donkeys
Tornadus-Therian:
LO Attacker:
Tornadus-Therian @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Focus Blast
- Hurricane
- U-turn
- Heat Wave/Knock Off/Taunt
Assault Vest Pivot
Tornadus-Therian @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 64 HP / 192 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- U-turn
- Focus Blast
- Hurricane
- Heat Wave/Knock Off

A+ Rank Mons:

Durant:
Choice Scarf:
Durant @ Life Orb
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Iron Head
- X-Scissor
- Superpower

Agility
Durant @ Life Orb
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Iron Head
- X-Scissor
- Agility

Life Orb AoA
Durant @ Life Orb
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Iron Head
- X-Scissor
- Superpower

Hone Claws
Durant @ Life Orb
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Iron Head
- X-Scissor
- Hone Claws
Mega Charizard X:
Dragon Dance
Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Rush
- Dragon Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Iron Tail/Earthquake/Roost

Double Dance
Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Rush
- Tailwind
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance

Swords Dance
Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Rush
- Iron Tail/Earthquake
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
(IDC about defensive sets and if u want them here, just post them and tag me)
Gengar:
LO Sleeper
Gengar (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Hypnosis
Keldeo:
Choice Specs
Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind/Hidden Power
- Focus Blast

Choice Scarf
Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind/Hidden Power
- Focus Blast

Life Orb Attacker
Keldeo @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind/Hidden Power
- Focus Blast
Calm Mind
Keldeo @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Secret Sword/Focus Blast
- Icy Wind/Hidden Power/Substitute
- Scald/Hydro Pump
Mega Metagross:
AoA
Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Hammer Arm/Earthquake
- Grass Knot/Ice Punch

Agiligross
Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Earthquake/Hammer Arm
- Agility

Hone Claws
Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Hammer Arm/Earthquake
- Hone Claws
Weavile:
LO Sweeper
Weavile @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Low Kick/Iron Tail/Pursuit/Swords Dance
 
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Fully aware. My point was that the calc given is stronger than Stone Edge would actually be, and insufficient to take out Mega Scizor, showing how solid it is. The only caveat I should add is that a well-timed crit from Stone Edge can potentially let it KO Mega Scizor, though that also applies to Superpower... and has actually happened to me... ugh...



NGG Mega Charizard X has almost no checks. There are tons of things it can flat-out OHKO with Dragon Rush with no flaw or disadvantage to exploit that can survive a +1 Dragon Claw and successfully revenge in Standard, making it considerably more difficult to revenge it in NGG without leaning on Scarfs or Whimsicott revenging it, and it no longer needs to run Earthquake to have a shot at dealing with Heatran, making Roost sets considerably less risky, which mitigates its vulnerability to Stealth Rock and makes Roar/Whirlwind-based checks shaky before it causes a Flinch with Dragon Rush, as the next time it comes in it may simply Roost as your Roar/Whirlwind check comes in, shrugging off the Stealth Rock damage from being Roar/Whirlwinded around.

Quagsire is a hard stop to Standard Mega Charizard X unless it runs Outrage, in which case Quagsire can then switch out to a Fairy or Steel type which then has a shot at screwing with Mega Charizard X in some fashion or another and forces Mega Charizard X to choose between taking recoil damage from Flare Blitz or get locked in and ultimately Confused by Outrage, rendering it less flexible and reliable at killing things. Here, Mega Charizard X just smacks it with Dragon Rush until it's dead.

Some examples
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Rush vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 354-417 (109.5 - 129.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 282-333 (87.3 - 103%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 306-361 (103 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

In Standard, Keldeo can fairly reliably switch into Mega Charizard X setting up and then one shot it. Here, it would never miss... but it will also never survive, so who cares?

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Rush vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar: 298-352 (87.3 - 103.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 306-362 (103 - 121.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Has a chance of one-shotting Tyranitar even without Stealth Rock support and ignoring the Flinch chance. With Stealth Rock it's nearly guaranteed. In standard, Tyranitar can revenge it or get a good prediction-switch and then OHKO it, barring missing Stone Edge.

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Rush vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Victini: 324-382 (95 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

No need for Stealth Rock, you'll usually get the OHKO anyway. 30% of the time you don't, Victini will Flinch anyway.

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And the list just goes on.

When I said you need Scarfed Pokemon or priority to revenge it, I meant it. You can't bring in a full health Fire resist on the Dragon Dance or revenge after a KO and expect the Fire resist to survive a +1 Dragon Rush and retaliate. You can't even sacrifice 2 Pokemon to take down Mega Charizard X reliably! It is entirely possible for Mega Charizard X to 6-0 a good team all by itself, especially if it gets a crucially timed Flinch, which it has decent odds of happening.

Even Landorus-Therian is shaky!
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 169-199 (44.2 - 52%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 202-238 (52.8 - 62.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

So, hit with Dragon Rush, get the Flinch, finish it with Flare Blitz. You don't even necessarily need Stealth Rock to soften up Landorus-Therian! This can actually happen, albeit it's a particularly extreme example of luck. (I'm pretty sure Charizard would also need high-ish damage rolls)

Bonus points: as pointed out by Jaguar360, 100% accurate Iron Tail lets Mega Charizard X murder Fairies outright. And here's food for thought:

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 246-289 (82.8 - 97.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That's right. Banded Azumarill can't necessarily revenge Mega Charizard X without prior damage: Earthquake or Iron Tail is a clean 2HKO at +1. Un-Band it and you get this...

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 163-193 (54.8 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 73-87 (24.5 - 29.2%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO

... which the best case scenario is about 95% of Mega Charizard's health gone. Again, without prior damage, you're not getting the KO. Mega Charizard X 2HKOs Azumarill.

Sitrus Berry Belly Drum Aqua Jet can scare it out one time, as +6 Aqua Jet is usually a OHKO and Mega Charizard doesn't hit hard enough at +1 to prevent it from getting the Belly Drum when backed by Sitrus Berry, but Azumarill is very fragile at that point. It can't repeat this either, so if Unaware is waiting in the wings to be switched into and then kill/drive out Azumarill, this is a win for Mega Charizard X, even with Stealth Rock.

This being one of the only Pokemon in the entire game that is resistant-or-better to both of Mega Charizard X's STABs. I already showed how much less reliable Heatran is even if Earthquake is not being carried, no Fairy/Fire exists (And would have to fear Earthquake if it wasn't Levitating anyway), Mega Altaria is the only Fairy/Dragon, and the Fairy/Rock cases have to fear Iron Tail or just plain ol' Earthquake.

You can't switch in anything, you can't revenge it without basically dedicated revengers, and the one Unaware Pokemon that hard stops it in Standard is now useless. This is not the situation in Standard.

It's certainly more meta-warping than Whimsicott, which you keep trying to push for a Suspect on even though it has tons of counters and checks and isn't that threatening by itself anyway and isn't even all that good of team support. I cannot imagine why you think Whimsicott deserves a suspect but Mega Charizard X should be left alone.



Hippowdon can revenge it and then Whirlwind it out, assuming it doesn't Flinch, but Quagsire isn't a "shaky" check, it's just plain doomed, and Slowbro/Mega Slowbro... what, chips it a little? Scald caps out at just under 40% from regular Slowbro, and Mega Slowbro only gets just under 50%, and they're both 2HKOed by Dragon Rush, which means unless Mega Charizard X has taken prior damage and doesn't get the Flinch and isn't carrying Roost this, at best, opens the way for something else to actually revenge it.

Scarfed Keldeo doesn't hit hard enough to OHKO Mega Charizard X. Specs Keldeo can get the KO, but isn't tough enough to survive +1 Dragon Rush.

The others work OK, though personally I haven't seen a Landorus-Therian and Thundurus-Incarnate/Therian isn't that popular in my experience. They don't get enough out of the meta, and the ability to lob Blizzard and the like hurts them a lot more than reliable Stone Edge/Focus Blast+Thunder helps them, at least in my experience.


Scarf Raikou and Porygon2 are the only Zap Cannons that can either reliably tank a hit and retaliate (Porygon2 is bulky enough that it would need to Flinch twice in the face of Dragon Rush, or Flinch once and X gets the 25% shot at two high enough damage rolls, to actually fail, barring prior damage) or outspeed it to then hit it with Zap Cannon for the Paralysis.

Mew is OHKOed more than 80% of the time by +1 Flare Blitz, 100% with hazard support, silly crap like Physically Defensive Magnezone still takes more than 150% from +1 Flare Blitz let alone Earthquake, Scarfed Porygon-Z is too slow and OHKOed by Dragon Rush, Physically Defensive Registeel takes a minimum of 115% from +1 Flare Blitz, Physically Defensive Zapdos has a 25% chance of being OHKOed by +1 Flare Blitz without Stealth Rock, Ampharos is OHKOed unless it is Physically Defensive and doesn't Mega and didn't have to switch into hazards or refuses to Mega because it successfully predicts a Dragon Rush and doesn't Flinch... well. Regirock can tank anything it tosses out, but I've never seen Regirock, let alone Zap Cannon Regirock.

Zap Cannon is a lot less of a concern than you're making it out to be. Sleep has to deal with Sleep clause. Mega Charizard X is immune to Burn. You can't get reliable Freeze, period. Toxic -such as from Prankster- is too slow, given how insanely difficult it is to actually slow Mega Charizard X down. Trick-choice (Or Iron Ball or whatever you think would cripple it best) fails because Mega.


Mega Charizard X is hard to actually cripple, and Scarf Raikou has to deal with the danger that Flare Blitz is a OHKO at +0, meaning it's only reliable at revenging Mega Charizard X -switching in to Zap Cannon it has to fear a prediction netting a OHKO, even if Mega Charizard X isn't running Earthquake! (Actually, Earthquake doesn't even hit Raikou as hard, thanks to Tough Claws: a Raikou with 32 HP EVs will never be KOed by +0 Earthquake barring hazards)
All I have to say are minor nitpicks, I totally agree with suspecting ZardX for the reasons you said.

Regirock can tank anything it tosses out, but I've never seen Regirock, let alone Zap Cannon Regirock.
I don't like how you dismissed it because it sounds like "since people don't use Regirock it can't beat ZardX, which is goofy. It can beat Zard even after a boost, zap cannon + Stone Edge, so it might rise in viability simply for this use. Just like how Doublade can get viable to stop Durant (w/o crunch), Regi could see use to stop ZardX, along with other physical offense. He can KO tornT, dragonite, other

Also, when you talk about potential checks, I feel like you are promoting the whole flinch-thing too much. Dragon Rush has a 20% chance to flinch, Zard ain't no iron head Rachi. I just feel like there was too much emphasis on a 20% chance, the same as Dark Pulse flinching or Crunch dropping Def, which doesn't happen all that often.

Someone mentioned Scarf LandoT to stop it, but I'm like..why? After Zard boosts, scarf landoT isn't faster, so Zard will hit him whether scarf or not. And if Zard isn't boosted, intimidate puts him at -1 attack so he won't be hitting for a 2HKO anyway so just go lefties or something, ya dig?
I put the list of scarfers that can outspeed and OHKO on one of my earlier posts. It's a short list.

But, yeah I totally agree that ZardX is worthy of a suspect test, because its list of checks and counters I can count on one hand. Good post and stuff dude
 
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Regirock can tank anything it tosses out, but I've never seen Regirock, let alone Zap Cannon Regirock.
But you were completely fine dismissing my arguments for the Whimsicott ban when I said most of its counters are unviable?

Anyways, few people agree with you and if you're basing your argument around how hard it is i'm really not that down with suspecting it. It has a couple sturdy checks and it'll struggle to set up in a metagame filled with priority sleep/paralysis and stealth rock. Zap cannon is a huge issue itself and Stone edge is now 100% accurate. The walls of text are nice n all but they don't actually accurately reflect on the downsides Charizard X which you've pretty much ignored. The Stealth rock weakness is a huge problem, so it's the weakness to priority with an already difficult time fitting in substitute. Mega Slowbro can easily cripple it with Thunder wave/Iron defence, Hippowdown can Whirlwind it out/Earthquake it, Offence uses priority, often multiple forms to chip away at Zard X.

You're also basing like, all of your calcs around "Mega Charizard is at 100% health and with a DD under its belt", that's just silly. With so few switch ins on offence your opponent should be vary of letting it set up, so you'll rarely be in the situation stated above, unless you get very lucky.
 
I personally haven't had any issues handling Zard X, though I guess that isn't too surprising considering I run lead Stealth Rocks, high offense, and Scarf Durant. I can see how balance and defensive teams without a revenge killer would struggle a bit more to keep it from setting up and sweeping, but with the combination of Stealth Rock, Flare Blitz recoil, Rocky Helmet, and priority, I don't see it being too difficult for a well-built team to wear down.

Also, can someone please elaborate on why Tornt is S rank besides never missing hurricane/focus blast?
Well, that's pretty much all it needed to be amazing. It has blazing high speed, good coverage, ridiculous damage output with a Life Orb, and Regenerator to mitigate Stealth Rock and Life Orb damage. Now that its 120 base damage STAB with a high confusion chance has perfect accuracy, there's pretty much no reason not to splash it on your team.
 
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On my latest team, I've found Mega Camerupt to be really nice for role compression. The Specially Defensive tank set from RU in particular does a good job serving as a SR setter and as a check to all users of both Zap Cannon and Inferno while still packing good power. Doesn't fair too badly against Torn-T or Durant either. It also benefits from perfectly accurate Fire Blast, Toxic and Stone Edge. I really think that it should get a rank, starting at C+ or even B- for now.

Also tried Zweilous out and it's better than I expected to be, though it's not that great. Head Smash is insanely strong and breaks through pretty much every non-resist. Lots of recoil though. Crunch is a good and powerful STAB to have. Parashuffling with Dragon Tail and T-Wave is also useful. That said, I didn't face too many of the high ranked Pokemon when I was doing ladder battles with it and it still didn't have too many opportunities to come in because of its weaknesses and low speed. If it gets ranked, it should be C-, but I wouldn't mind leaving it unranked.

I also think Dragonite could move up to A. Its Dragon Dance set got buffed with Dragon Rush and Iron Tail, much like Mega Charizard X, and it can carry a Lum Berry to get past the Zap Cannon/Inferno/Prankster status cancer. It also has a ton of versatility now that it's able to viably run special sets with Hurricane, Focus Blast, Blizzard, Fire Blast, Thunder, etc. I haven't tried the following yet, but its Sp. Def set seems really good to run in NGG, especially since it can use Heal Bell to counteract status. It checks a bunch of the metagame too with the Sp. Def set (MegaZard Y, Tornadus-T, Chandelure, Keldeo to an extent, and Magnezone are examples). It seems worthy of a rise.
 
Regirock can tank anything it tosses out, but I've never seen Regirock, let alone Zap Cannon Regirock.
I don't like how you dismissed it because it sounds like "since people don't use Regirock it can't beat ZardX, which is goofy. It can beat Zard even after a boost, zap cannon + Stone Edge, so it might rise in viability simply for this use. Just like how Doublade can get viable to stop Durant (w/o crunch), Regi could see use to stop ZardX, along with other physical offense. He can KO tornT, dragonite, other
But you were completely fine dismissing my arguments for the Whimsicott ban when I said most of its counters are unviable?
I wasn't dismissing it as unusably bad or unviable. My point is there's probably some reason why I've never seen it. It could be a case of it being a diamond in the rough in NGG, ignored by players only because it's not very good in Standard/most OMs, but even then that takes you from 2 consistently relevant Zap Cannon users to 3. The claim was that Mega Charizard X has to fear Zap Cannon reliably Paralyzing it, when in actual fact the list of Zap Cannon users that can so much as revenge-cripple Mega Charizard X is tiny, even if you assume all examples are viable.

As far as Whimsicott goes, AJA, I'm "dismissing" your arguments because many of the things you say are provably wrong and you keep saying those things after they've been proven wrong, and, as I already said, you alone keep trying to bring the argument back to "only Sound/Grass immunity is a viable answer to Whimsicott, and most of them are low viability otherwise", which is, again, provably false. Sure, fine, most Soundproof and Sap Sipper Pokemon aren't that good. So? If they were the only Whimsicott answers, you'd have a point. They're not.

I don't even know why you consider these equivalent situations when you are in complete agreement that Mega Charizard X can't really be countered. You think Mega Charizard X being essentially uncounterable and basically uncheckable is OK, for... some reason, where I'm clear Whimsicott isn't uncounterable or uncheckable nor does it demand niche Pokemon to counter or check. Why are you acting like I'm employing the double standard, when taking your own position on Mega Charizard X and applying it to Whimsicott nets us "Even if Whimsicott has no checks/counters, that's not a good enough reason to ban it". Which is it? If Mega Charizard X doesn't deserve a ban, Whimsicott certainly doesn't. If Whimsicott deserves a ban, Mega Charizard X most certainly does.

Also, when you talk about potential checks, I feel like you are promoting the whole flinch-thing too much. Dragon Rush has a 20% chance to flinch, Zard ain't no iron head Rachi. I just feel like there was too much emphasis on a 20% chance, the same as Dark Pulse flinching or Crunch dropping Def, which doesn't happen all that often.
My bad, I thought it was 30%. 20% is still good enough to have decent odds of cropping up, and in particular still presents a huge problem to Quagsire, but is less burdensome than I'd made it out to be, yeah.

But, yeah I totally agree that ZardX is worthy of a suspect test, because its list of checks and counters I can count on one hand. Good post and stuff dude
Thanks. :)

Anyways, few people agree with you and if you're basing your argument around how hard it is i'm really not that down with suspecting it. It has a couple sturdy checks and it'll struggle to set up in a metagame filled with priority sleep/paralysis and stealth rock. Zap cannon is a huge issue itself and Stone edge is now 100% accurate. The walls of text are nice n all but they don't actually accurately reflect on the downsides Charizard X which you've pretty much ignored. The Stealth rock weakness is a huge problem, so it's the weakness to priority with an already difficult time fitting in substitute. Mega Slowbro can easily cripple it with Thunder wave/Iron defence, Hippowdown can Whirlwind it out/Earthquake it, Offence uses priority, often multiple forms to chip away at Zard X.
I already covered literally everything you just raised except the part where Stone Edge never misses and the idea of Sturdy checks. (And Thunder Wave Slowbro, which I did fail to catch) I even covered how it's actually very hard to take out with priority without losing at least one Pokemon.

Let's flip this around: if Stealth Rock is such a reliable issue that we can argue it keeps Mega Charizard X in check, we can also assume it's a sufficiently big problem that Focus Sash and Sturdy checks to Mega Charizard X are unreliable at the best of times, to the point we can just take them off the table entirely. Zap Cannon spreading Paralysis and Sleep being extremely widespread makes it easier for Mega Charizard X to setup once the 1 or 2 checks the enemy does have are crippled/disabled.

I'm also not seeing where you're getting this "few people agree with Ghoul King (On Mega Charizard X)" thing. You and Chopin are the only people to have said "Not banworthy, full stop" in-thread, vs 3 people explicitly agreeing with me that it's at least worthy of a suspect/discussion, in-thread. Even if you were right on this point, and? I can be alone in my opinion and still correct. Majority opinion=/=truth. If I'm wrong, prove it.

You're also basing like, all of your calcs around "Mega Charizard is at 100% health and with a DD under its belt", that's just silly. With so few switch ins on offence your opponent should be vary of letting it set up, so you'll rarely be in the situation stated above, unless you get very lucky.
Sure, if you're HO and everything on your entire team is prepared to OHKO Mega Charizard X on a moment's notice, without any fear that you might make a wrong selection because it's actually Y/because you thought it was Y and it's X, it's not so bad. Of course, if you're anything other than HO, it's basically inevitable that you're going to give it a chance to switch in and setup, and if you're HO without multiple Scarfs at base 100+ and/or powerful priority abusers, it's still tanky enough to shrug off most neutrally effective effects, get the Dragon Dance, and kill two or more Pokemon before it goes down, essentially guaranteed, even aside from the fact that it only needs one good switch-in -such as Scizor- to force its opponent into a nasty situation.

For that matter, food for thought: the following is a list of Pokemon with a Sleep-inducing move and access to Baton Pass, to pass a Substitute.

Delcatty, Espeon, Flareon, Glaceon, Jolteon, Leafeon, Mawile, Minun, Plusle, Spinda, Sylveon, Umbreon, Vaporeon, Leafeon, Leavanny, Sawsbuck, Drifblim, Hypno, Lunatone, Mew, Mr. Mime, Musharna, Watchog, and Rapidash.

A good portion of these aren't anything I'd argue as viable enough to be influential (Fear Delcatty!/sarcasm), but it does include bulky options and a viable fast option. It's worryingly plausible to put something to sleep, set up a Substitute, and then Baton Pass to Charizard, delaying/blocking stuff like Thunder Wave if it's not backed by Infiltrator. Mega Charizard X doesn't need to fit a Substitute into its movepool to potentially have one.

"But Ghoul King, there's still Stealth Rock!" Sure, and there's Roost and hazard management. Furthermore, since this is such an offensively inclined metagame, people mostly aren't running forced-switch moves, and even when they are it can be hard to keep the users alive since firepower is up overall. Without forced-switching moves, an extreme vulnerability to Stealth Rock just demands hazard management and a willingness to wait for a good opportunity, it doesn't actually threaten the Pokemon that much. And, again, Mega Charizard X has Roost and is only singly vulnerable after Mega Evolution, making even forced-switching shaky at the best of times.

---

Valmanway? Are we going to suspect Mega Charizard X?
 
Looks like I missed some of the discussions here. For now, I want to nominate something.

Mega Sceptile to A rank

In my experience, this thing is very underestimated. It has been performing very well so far and it destroys many offensive teams with It's high Special Attack and Speed. It's a very good Zap Cannon tanker against Scarfed Electric types. Two of it's bulky checks, Heatran and Ferrothorn, got slept by Grass Whistle and worn down by Focus Blast. Here's the set that I've been using so far.

Revive thread (Sceptile) @ Sceptilite
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Grass Whistle
- Energy Ball
- Focus Blast
- Dragon Pulse

I don't like Leaf Storm because the Special Attack drop prevents me to sweep. Giga Drain is too weak. That's why I think Energy Ball is the best Grass STAB for Mega Sceptile. If you like to be annoying, you can use a Grass Whistle + Subseed set like Whimsicott. If you want surprises, you can also use the Swords Dance set with something like Grass Whistle and two attacking moves like Dragon Claw, or Leaf Blade for STAB and Earthquake for coverage. I think this is the second best Grass Whistle abuser after Whimsicott.
 
Sadly, Entei doesn't get Inferno, so it's still stuck with its event-locked Sacred Fire if it wants to spread Burns, and frankly it's probably going to be outclassed by any number of Pokemon with Inferno. Weirdly, Mismagius has Inferno. That's cool.
Entei doesn't get Sacred Fire from an event, it learns the move naturally at level 1 since the beginning of XY. It gets Extreme Speed from the event.
 
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/noguardgalaxy-281707445

Perfectly good team, but once I got setup there was no stopping Zard

+6 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X V-create vs. -6 0 HP / 0+ Def Eviolite Dry Skin Paras in Sun: 757032-890628 (3,785,160 - 4,453,140%) -- guaranteed OHKO

LoOk hE 2 pOweRfuL

I'm really digging the Screech, Belly Drum, V-create set
 
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Okay. Since I'm bored of using this team and I've heard people wanting a sample team, I'll use this as a sample team.

Sample team for No Guard Galaxy by me, Chopin

Hippowdon @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off
- Roar
- Earthquake

Excadrill @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head

Weavile @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Knock Off
- Low Kick

Sceptile @ Sceptilite
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Grass Whistle
- Energy Ball
- Focus Blast
- Dragon Pulse

Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Focus Blast
- Secret Sword
- Hidden Power [Electric]

Talonflame @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn
- Steel Wing


So basically I made another Sandstorm team (this is like, the 4th meta after Inverse Battle, Protean Palace and Sketchmons). Since this is an offensively oriented meta, Sand teams has been very effective at sweeping teams, even though Excadrill does not gaining anything in this meta besides never missing Rock Slide. As for other things, I simply picked things to cover other threats.

With the exception of Hippowdon, all members of this team are fast enough to outspeed the common threats unless they're not Scarfed or something.

I wouldn't recommend to lead with Hippowdon if you see a team full of Special Attackers. If you see a potential hazard lead, you lead with Mega Sceptile, so that you can Megaevo to gain 145 Speed and sleep their hazard lead if they carry one (mainly Ferrothorn, Forretress, Garchomp or Landorus Therian. just Dragon Pulse if you see Garchomp. Beware of surprise Scarfs tough). If you suspect your opponent will lead with Tornadus Therian or Starmie, lead with Weavile. If you suspect your opponent lead with Whimsicott, you lead with Talonflame. It's all about predictions.

What if you choose the wrong lead? You either
1. Sack the poke, or
2. Switch into something that can take the hit with minimal damage and hit back hard. Again, you PREDICT. If you see a Durant lead, do not hesitate to switch into Hippowdon.
3. Sack a poke in your team that you think it can't do anything to your opponent.

Some tips.
1. All of the members of this team are able to sweep or deal heavy damage to the opponent's team. If you see at least three members of your opponent's team weak to a specific poke, DO NOT SACK THAT POKE. Instead, sack the most useless poke for the team.
For this point, Excadrill is the strongest sweeper in this team, as it's nearly unrevengable in Sand. If you see a chance for Excadrill to sweep, do not hesitate to sack your Hippowdon if you see it useless.
2. Use Hippowdon as the sleep fodder. This is what I mainly do when facing Whimsicott. If it doesn't sleep you, set up Stealth Rock or just Roar away.
3. Do not immediately click Grass Whistle unless you find opposing poke threaten your team
4. One common mistake that I find in my experience. Mega Sceptile outspeeds all Scarfed pokes with Speed of 80 and below. So if you see a potential Scarf on Tyrantrum, Chandelure or Magnezone, do not switch. Instead, Grass Whistle it or Dragon Pulse/Focus Blast away.

Some of these tips may seem bad. Maybe you want to scream "WTF WHY WOULD I FOLLOW YOUR USELESS ADVICE?" Well, it's your choice. I gave the tips and tricks on how to play with this team, it's your choice whether to follow or not. Keep in mind that, while this team is effective, it's not foolproof. You'll still need predictions for you and your opponent's actions if you want to win.



Believe it or not, all of these alts use the same team with one or two differences (I used Mega Venusaur before I try using Mega Sceptile. It wasn't that good, at least for this team).
 
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There's not many sample sets for this tier, so I'm gonna drop a few for you guys
Top-Tier Mon Sample Sets

S Rank Mons:

Whimsicott:
Utility
Whimsicott @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Encore
- Grass Whistle
- Moonblast/Hurricane/Giga Drain
- U-turn / Stun Spore
Subseed
Whimsicott @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold / Calm Nature
IVs: 0 HP
- Grass Whistle
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Filler

Whim Sets stolen from I like donkeys
Tornadus-Therian:
LO Attacker:
Tornadus-Therian @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Focus Blast
- Hurricane
- U-turn
- Heat Wave/Knock Off/Taunt
Assault Vest Pivot
Tornadus-Therian @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 64 HP / 192 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- U-turn
- Focus Blast
- Hurricane
- Heat Wave/Knock Off

A+ Rank Mons:

Durant:
Choice Scarf:
Durant @ Life Orb
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Iron Head
- X-Scissor
- Superpower

Agility
Durant @ Life Orb
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Iron Head
- X-Scissor
- Agility

Life Orb AoA
Durant @ Life Orb
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Iron Head
- X-Scissor
- Superpower

Hone Claws
Durant @ Life Orb
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Iron Head
- X-Scissor
- Hone Claws
Mega Charizard X:
Dragon Dance
Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Rush
- Dragon Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Iron Tail/Earthquake/Roost

Double Dance
Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Rush
- Tailwind
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance

Swords Dance
Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Rush
- Iron Tail/Earthquake
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
(IDC about defensive sets and if u want them here, just post them and tag me)
Gengar:
LO Sleeper
Gengar (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Hypnosis
Keldeo:
Choice Specs
Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind/Hidden Power
- Focus Blast

Choice Scarf
Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind/Hidden Power
- Focus Blast

Life Orb Attacker
Keldeo @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind/Hidden Power
- Focus Blast
Calm Mind
Keldeo @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Secret Sword/Focus Blast
- Icy Wind/Hidden Power/Substitute
- Scald/Hydro Pump
Mega Metagross:
AoA
Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Hammer Arm/Earthquake
- Grass Knot/Ice Punch

Agiligross
Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Earthquake/Hammer Arm
- Agility

Hone Claws
Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Hammer Arm/Earthquake
- Hone Claws
Weavile:
LO Sweeper
Weavile @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Low Kick/Iron Tail/Pursuit/Swords Dance
a nitpick for the torn set, focus blast shouldnt be a standard on every set, hurricane and u-turn should, as well as imo knock off and the last move is spashable to fit your teams needs.

And dont use hone claws durant, i imo may as well run sd pass on celebi which would be 100x more effective, the 1.5x atk taking up a turn simply isnt worth it.

Lastly, sub hypnonsis hex and focust blast w/ black sludge is also a vry good gengar set
 

G-Luke

Sugar, Spice and One For All
is a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
I would like to nominate the following Pokes.

Mienshao for B+ or A- Rank

Mienshao really benefits from High Jump Kick and Stone-Edge can't miss. Due to the power of its RECKLESS boosted High Jump Kicks are near nuke like, plus also having decent SpA to run HP Ice to hit usual counters like Gliscor. Its poor bulk and kinda dissapointing speed hold it back, but NEVER take it lightly.

Gengar S- rank
hing switches in on this monster. We all know the power of Ghost/Fighting coverage, + a great speed tier, + its unpredictability makes it powerful as fuck.

Gengar @ Life Orb
252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Ability: Levitate
Timid Nature
- Hypnosis
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast

My fav set. If used right, guareentees up to 3 kills! Extremely effecient cleaner/wallbreaker. Its few probs (vunerability to SuckerSuit) can easily be worked around, has literally zero drawbacks and can 6-0 unprepared teams. Has interesting Hypnosable, HypnoHex and Hypno+3 attacks sets
 
So! I'm still enjoying the meta except when my opponent's team has Mega Charizard X on it. Absolutely nothing has changed since last this was discussed. No new counters or checks have magically appeared to make it more tolerable. Everything I said last time still applies, and the thread died after conversation about Mega Charizard X came to a halt. It's been more than two weeks. "A little bit more time" has passed without Mega Charizard X doing anything except become more common on teams, because it's that good. I almost never see a Mega unless it's a Charizard on enemy teams.

Can we get a suspect on Charizardite X going already?

Valmanway?
 
why would new counters appear? You're still just adamantly saying it should be suspected because of how uncounterable it is, yet its biggest problems are the lack of answers and ways to mitigate some of its biggest weaknesses, lack of priority and weakness to stealth rock. It's not really that hard to deal with it when its HP is effectively cut in half. No need to suspect
 
why would new counters appear? You're still just adamantly saying it should be suspected because of how uncounterable it is, yet its biggest problems are the lack of answers and ways to mitigate some of its biggest weaknesses, lack of priority and weakness to stealth rock. It's not really that hard to deal with it when its HP is effectively cut in half. No need to suspect
Or checks. The only answers to it after a Dragon Dance are Scarves and priority abusers. You can't even tank a hit and retaliate with stuff like Keldeo, which you can in Standard.

Meanwhile, as I already covered, it can much more reliably get away with running Roost over Earthquake, making its Stealth Rock weakness much less burdensome, and its natural bulk makes even priority difficult to KO it with since it is neutral or resistant to all forms of priority that currently exist. You, in practice, need multiple Scarves/priority abusers or Whimsicott to deal with it after a Dragon Dance, and Roost also lessens the threat presented by priority abusers that aren't Whimsicott.

I'm saying it should be suspected because it's basically an "I win" button against way too many otherwise viable teams if it gets into a position to Dragon Dance, which is not hard to arrange.

The fact that you can't tell whether it's X or Y beforehand is also a problem, since Y spamming Inferno is enormously threatening and will instantly vaporize or at least maul and cripple what few Pokemon have a shot of switching into X and doing something about it.

It's unhealthy the extent to which Mega Charizard X basically puts the opposition into a series of 50/50s where Charizard's best-case scenario is "kills the entire enemy team" and the enemy's best-case scenario is "doesn't immediately lose a Pokemon". That's ridiculous.
 
Could we ban Dragon Rush instead? Zard X by itself isn't worthy of a ban. It's just the presence of a no-drawback, 100 BP dragon move with 20% flinch that apparently makes it overpowered. So just get rid of that. We can keep a really good mega around in the metagame and, as a bonus, I can stop getting flinch-haxed by ScarfChomp.
 
Could we ban Dragon Rush instead? Zard X by itself isn't worthy of a ban. It's just the presence of a no-drawback, 100 BP dragon move with 20% flinch that apparently makes it overpowered. So just get rid of that. We can keep a really good mega around in the metagame and, as a bonus, I can stop getting flinch-haxed by ScarfChomp.
That's...a terrible argument. That's like if they banned Power-up Punch in OU instead of Mega Kangaskhan.
 
That's...a terrible argument. That's like if they banned Power-up Punch in OU instead of Mega Kangaskhan.
Two things. First, I'd say Mega Kangaskan would be worth banning even without PUP. Second, banning Power-Up Punch would have a much more widespread impact on the game than banning Dragon Rush. There are only a handful of Pokemon that can learn Dragon Rush, while there are many that can learn Power-Up Punch. And I think that restricting one move from a few Pokemon is a more conservative measure to take than removing an otherwise balanced Pokemon completely out of the game over the presence of that one move.
 
Two things. First, I'd say Mega Kangaskan would be worth banning even without PUP. Second, banning Power-Up Punch would have a much more widespread impact on the game than banning Dragon Rush. There are only a handful of Pokemon that can learn Dragon Rush, while there are many that can learn Power-Up Punch. And I think that restricting one move from a few Pokemon is a more conservative measure to take than removing an otherwise balanced Pokemon completely out of the game over the presence of that one move.
So? Extremespeed is broken in a lot of OMs and has very low distribution, but I can't think of a single instance where the move itself and not the users are banned. I'm sure someone will mention one but whatever. Also, I can easily reverse your argument and have it make more sense.

"And I think that banning one Pokemon is a more conservative measure to take than removing an otherwise balanced move completely out of the game over the presence of that one Pokemon."
 
Moves are typically banned because they are uncompetitive not because 1 pokemon is overpowered because of that move.
Well if that's how things always have to be done, then so be it. I just think that, in this particular case, banning the move rather than the Pokemon would make less of an impact on the current state of the metagame. And I guess more selfishly, I feel that I would enjoy the metagame more without Dragon Rush but with Zard X than without Zard X but with Dragon Rush.
So? Extremespeed is broken in a lot of OMs and has very low distribution, but I can't think of a single instance where the move itself and not the users are banned.
And, personally, I think those metagames have suffered for it. You said it yourself. "Extremespeed is broken." And yet instead of banning the move that breaks Pokemon, the policy seems to be to keep banning each new Pokemon that it breaks. I don't see why every other metagame also needs to abide by such a mindset.
Also, I can easily reverse your argument and have it make more sense.

"And I think that banning one Pokemon is a more conservative measure to take than removing an otherwise balanced move completely out of the game over the presence of that one Pokemon."
Do you honestly believe that to be the case here, though? That taking away Dragon Rush from, what, 7 Pokemon would make more of an impact on the metagame than taking out Charizard X?
 
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And, personally, I think those metagames have suffered for it. You said it yourself. "Extremespeed is broken." And yet instead of banning the move that breaks Pokemon, the policy seems to be to keep banning each new Pokemon that it breaks. I don't see why every other metagame also needs to abide by such a mindset.
I mean, its a a very well-established mindset. Go to the OU forum and ask to unban Greninja and ban Protean instead (it only hurts Kecleon, after all, which no one uses). Darkrai should be fine with Dark Void banned, too -- but that will never happen. The standard ban policy is always to have as little collateral damage as possible. Losing one item (Charizardite X) is preferable to banning a move that multiple Pokemon get.
Do you honestly believe that to be the case here, though? That taking away Dragon Rush from, what, 7 Pokemon would make more of an impact on the metagame than taking out Charizard X?
Dragonite and Garchomp, 2 good Pokemon that are not problematic in the metagame, get nerfed for no reason. Maybe my Power-up Punch example was bad -- let's say that its early XY and Blaziken is tearing people up. A big issue is that High Jump Kick just sets it over the edge -- without that high power Fighting STAB, it might be balanced, allowing it to be more easily walled by bulky waters. High Jump Kick has even lower distribution than Dragon Rush.

What do you ban -- Blaziken, or High Jump Kick?
 
Dragonite and Garchomp, 2 good Pokemon that are not problematic in the metagame, get nerfed for no reason. Maybe my Power-up Punch example was bad -- let's say that its early XY and Blaziken is tearing people up. A big issue is that High Jump Kick just sets it over the edge -- without that high power Fighting STAB, it might be balanced, allowing it to be more easily walled by bulky waters. High Jump Kick has even lower distribution than Dragon Rush.

What do you ban -- Blaziken, or High Jump Kick?
Well, again, I disagree with the premise that High Jump Kick was the problem with Blaziken, so that makes it difficult to answer. So let's take a hypothetical example of something like...Mega Altaria getting Boomburst. I don't think it would be such a crazy notion in that case to consider banning Boomburst over banning Mega Altaria. That would more or less just return the metagame to its original state, which would seem to me to be a more simple solution than uprooting a major pillar of the current metagame and seeing how things fall. But if that's not how things work around here, then I can accept that. I was just bringing up a possibility.
 
Well, again, I disagree with the premise that High Jump Kick was the problem with Blaziken, so that makes it difficult to answer. So let's take a hypothetical example of something like...Mega Altaria getting Boomburst. I don't think it would be such a crazy notion in that case to consider banning Boomburst over banning Mega Altaria. That would more or less just return the metagame to its original state, which would seem to me to be a more simple solution than uprooting a major pillar of the current metagame and seeing how things fall. But if that's not how things work around here, then I can accept that. I was just bringing up a possibility.
Fair enough, but I also don't think Dragon Rush is the problem with Mega Charizard X. Yes, it's the buff it got in the transition between OU and NGG, and what may "set it over the edge" (I take no stance on Charizardite X itself) but if hypothetically NGG was the standard all along, you'd think people would opt for banning Flare Blitz or Dragon Dance instead, if they had to ban a move. Dragon Rush itself isn't at fault, its the combination of all of its standard moves + Dragon Rush.
 

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