NOC Medieval Mafia - Game Over: Majora's Maskians Win

UncleSam

Leading this village
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
#52
unclesam all the n0 posts were trolls because no real content was allowed
Brammi already addressed this, but as I said before, regardless of whether or not Snype now claims it was a troll, it did not strike me that way when I read it and it still doesn't strike me that way. n0 or not.

That being said, I do NOT want people to vote for Steven Snype because "UncleSam convinced me". I repeat, do NOT vote for Steven Snype for this reason.

If you vote for anyone, provide your own reasoning as for why you are doing so. Even if it is simply rehashing points already gone over by someone else, do it anyway. Nothing kills villages like random bandwagons and non-thought-out jumpers on those wagons.

In this vein, I do not at all like how Brammi just jumped on the first convenient wagon to come along with any bit of evidence supporting it. Note that I don't object to Brammi voting for Steven Snype whatsoever...what I object to is saying things like:
Brammi said:
Unvote, Vote: Snype I like this wagon for now, I want to watch it grow and we'll go from there.
Provide more reasoning for your votes, please. That being said, I still find Snype the most suspicious, so my vote stands until he responds.

Edit: Oh ya and I expect Crux, Coronis, and Ditto to have posted far more substantial things by the time I log back on in about 12-14 hours. Expect responses to any posts directed at me about that time as well. And I am still awaiting Paperblade's response.
 

zorbees

Chwa for no reason!
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
#53
According to the "n0 posts aren't trolls" logic, unclesam actually is mafia. therefore, Vote UncleSam

EDIT: unvoted
 
#54
That isn't strictly true. When someone is the point of conjecture it is important to build pressure. Your points had already been made and I gave reasons as to why his play has been substandard and possibly scummy if he is smart enough to construct any parts of what I commented on.

There is little reason not to jump on a bandwagon at the early parts of the game. Also your advice of rehashing is probably not the best advice. Better would be to say that if someone wants to use your points to tell them to quote you and pull apart why they agree with you. All you're asking for is that is they say they agree with you, only in a more time consuming way.

We are not anywhere near lynch, days go through momentum shifts if you give them time, getting someone to L-1 is actually not a bad thing provided there aren't idiots that come along and do something stupid. There is no time limit on the day, if we play smart I doubt we will be nearing a lynch until at least a week from now provided everyone stays active.

So basically US, I don't see what is wrong with my entrance to the wagon, it's not like I just flopped on as you are implying.
 

Yeti

queen of unclesam's village
is a Community Contributor
#56
YES scum accusations again.

I'm not sure if I like Sam wanting the announcer to out.
this statement has my agreement. the mafia benefit more from knowing the announcer than we do. this gives them: a non-wolf target, alternatively gives the wolf a non-mafia target, to avoid crossfire, should a wolf exist. it also lets them know who is NOT a relevant power role.

announcer has historically been rather unspecific - some games have village announcer, some games have mafia announcer. the role itself is not indicative of alliance imo, just that a moron has it.

I personally find Yeti's slipping between "Using Capital Letters" and "i cannot be assed to use capital letters" to be vaguely suspicious.
if you notice, i only used caps for EMPHASIS or when someone's name has caps. in most noc games, my posts decline to use the shift key because of how tl;dr they have to be.

As for Yeti's concerns that I lead the village every game I play, this is blatantly false; if you look back at every village game I have played, the ONLY times I have led the village was when I:
A. Was actually village (village won easily in these cases; Redwall, MOB, NOC Desktop Dungeons)
B. Was a mafia with a mole ability playing against beginners who I could easily trick (Luigi's Mansion)
fallout 3 nob where you got lucky the hosts pitied you after everyone dead demanded your death.
luigi's mansion shouldn't even be mentioned, that is shameful.
or you tried to lead in f3 at the least.

i maintain suspicion on you and will continue to watch your tl;dr posts, as i think the sheer volume of text you produce could easily be masking your scum intent, by the virtue that only like Brammi loves NOC enough to read every word carefully.

the bravado of such posts reads "mafia would not give so much info, i must be village" by virtue of the length and contributions. while i do not recommend any lynchly action towards US, i shall keep a close watch on his efforts to READ THIS VILLAGE.

@ US: I pointed it out because how woul dhe be able to replicate his antics if he doesn't have mafia sheet access? It could be an empty threat or it could be a slip. I'll grant it's impossible to tell which but maybe just something to keep in mind later.
he clearly meant the HOST sheet, fyi. i am also on the host sheet, Walrein's password of "mydickisreallybig" was incredibly easy to crack.

@ zorbees: fos There is discussion going and you don't have an opinion. Great addition to this game. Do something helpful maybe? This goes for everyone ignoring the main discussions at any point in this game.
zorbees was most likely trying to pull a billymills and incite someone by threat of vote, in addition, the 'main discussion' is not exactly helpful if it excludes some players who could be mafia, or suspicious. by trying to strike up a side discussion/counter to zorbees' vote, and some contributions from Coronis, he is adding to our post count by putting up his own unfounded vote and getting Coronis' response.

or he's preparing us for when he doesn't post at all. heh.

Note: If snype is scum look at yeti closely.
I am really not sure what connection there is to Snype and me beyond we have cohosted two games, please elaborate.

town is supposed to be able to afford to let themselves die.
note he says "themselves" and not "ourselves" ! also, he is of the opinion the town mislynching is: not a big deal at all, and in fact could HELP us more than hurt us! not only does mislynching the useless roles, vanillas, and insignificant powers narrow it down for the mafia even more to see who the power roles are, as they will probably not be mislynched by virtue of they can claim/provide results, but, this limits our voting power later on, and prevents possible contributions by these vanillas who have nothing to lose by going out on a limb because their role is quite so trivial.

rather suspicious!

aska: not particularly in-depth contributions but nothing that is overly telling either.
billymills: has not hopped from lynch target to lynch target, but, then again, his initial lynch to flesh out has not responded; also billy may or may not be here to instigate the idlers/newbies more.
Crux/Coronis: post please.
Ditto: bit more contribution, such as why someone else stating 4 mafia and 1 wolf is probably unlikely/too small of a scum facet, while you think merely one more mafia is too big.
do you think it's 4 maf & 1 wolf, 4 maf, 5 maf & 0 wolf??

please provide your thoughts, i will continue to be as scummy as possible in the hopes this turns out like all prior NOC games where i am suspected regardless of my actions.
 
#57
Oh there you are Paperblade.

I guess all I have to say is did you even read my posts or did you just panic when askaninjask called you out for not talking and immediately tried to shift suspicion onto someone else? Because if you had spent two minutes' worth of time reading what I wrote you would've found:
You got me, I totally panicked because aska noticed I hadn't made a post 5 hours into a phase of an indefinite length.

Anyway, I've never seen a real reason to respond to solitary, random votes. What am I supposed to say to him? "Sorry bro I was busy with [INSERT REAL LIFE OBLIGATION HERE] and couldn't be assed to post." I'm posting my thoughts and for some reason, this in and of itself seems to have made you mad.

And apparently you don't read what zorbees posts either:
zorbees wasn't asking the announcer to out. He said he doesn't give a shit if he dies. If the announcer outs, unless he has some ability other than announcing, he is basically reduced to vanilla status. This means the mafia has no reason to ever target him because he is less of a threat than an unknown that could be a bg or cop or something of that ilk unless everyone believes him to be town, in which case they still might keep him around for mindgame purposes. Keep in mind that we cannot actually be certain that the announcer is town.

Let me reiterate to make myself clear: The announcer shouldn't claim unless forced to. If he's not forced to, he should keep his mouth shut and hope to get randed in place of someone who isn't a glorified vanilla (unless that person is an actual vanilla)

However, I have not dedicated any significant portion of a post to this point, so I will now address this more fully:
-The announcer is highly likely to be allied with the village. Unfortunately it is no longer the near-100% guarantee it used to be, but it nevertheless provides us with one person whose opinion we can analyze beyond simple "this is what I know of that user's playstyle".
I don't see any real reason the announcer is likely to be town other than because it's a useless role. However, that could be mitigated by him having other abilities. To be honest, the biggest point in the announcer's favor is that he hasn't claimed to go "Hey guys I'm the announcer obvtown, now everyone listen to me!" because it would just feel like he's trying too hard.

-Quite frankly, if the mafia wants to kill the announcer rather than rand for a power role, I'd welcome them to do so. Yes I am aware this marginally improves the chances of the mafia randing a power role, but the difference between them randing at 1/~19 non-mafias (for argument's sake) is really not much better for the village than 1/~18, and the difference it would make in terms of providing things to discuss and claims to hold people to later in the game would more than make up for this difference.
Well, it is a combination of two things:
A. The town can't actually be sure if the announcer is town without an inspect (which defeats the point of him claiming), while the mafia can
B. It narrows things down for the mafia

Now then, I have a few further questions for you:
-Did you simply skim my posts, or why else did you disregard my previous points? You are an experienced enough mafia player to not throw out random accusations with no backing if you are a villager.
We're less than 12 hours into the phase. It's the RVS. I didn't like what you said so I voted you. I will retract it later if someone does something more suspicious. Right now you seem butthurt that I voted you and are trying to smudge me without actually voting me.

-Why did you skip over ~35 posts from other players (including askaninjask calling you out) and mention absolutely no one other than me?
Many of those posts were during the night phase and thus were lacking in content. I guess I could have added that I don't like that some people (Ditto, kind of Yeti) are posting but not really saying anything but that might just be because they have nothing better to do.

Again: Aska asked for my thoughts, so I posted some thoughts. Your post was the only thing that really jumped out at me because everyone else was durdling with trolling, RVS votes, and speculating about setup.

The latter is the most likely to appear helpful but what usually ends up happening is some townie says something weird and everyone assumes he is a Bad Man which in turn makes Bad Things Happen and the village doesn't really learn anything useful. We don't know how many vanillas are in the game, which would also influence balance (both # of mafia and existence of a wolf).

Keep in mind my previous NOC experiences are under deadline, so usually wasting time is an actual issue there. Although I suppose you could say we also have a deadline in the form of people's attention spans.

metagame stuff
I'll take it with a grain of salt.

snype stuff
sure okay

Also I'm not sure what to think of Brammi's vote. It might just be pressure but we'll see.
 

Ditto

/me huggles
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#58
I would think it's 4 maf and possibly one wolf. One mafia in NOC (in my limited experience) means a lot more than 1 villy. I feel like 3 villy - 1 killers (5maf+1wolf) would not leave enough room for mislynches and stuff. Although I guess the possibility for cross firing might make that more likely. I don't know, mainly just a gut feeling at this point.
 
#59
Obligatory post, so I'm not randed.

After reading through all these posts, I see zorbees as a fairly suspicious character. Voting multiple people, seemingly at random? Or for reasons he has yet to explain. Anyway, I actually agree with stuff most other people have said and I do think Snype is also not to be trusted, though I'm not content with blindly following UncleSam's lead.
 

kingofmars

Its 2015 somewhere
won the 2nd Smogon VGC Tournamentis a Past SPL Champion
#60
lynch Coronis give reasoning please.

Right now, UncleSam and Brammi are providing some good conversation, though UncleSam is less of a dumbass than Brammi is. Though it would be moronic to just follow their footsteps, for what I hope is obvious enough to everyone. If people do need me to elaborate, just say so.

Also, no one should be timid to post their thoughts. More contributions makes it so that we're going off of a group discussion instead of a small group of individuals. So please, post and give your thoughts so you don't get lynched for not contributing enough.

I agree that saying who the announcer is is not a good idea right now, since A) they can still be scum, and B) having a clean villager who doesn't know what the fuck they're doing can be worse than if they were just one of the masses (See: Orcinus Duo)

Long Story short, listen to what people have to say, but make sure to reread the source and form your own opinions first so you're not just eating up a bunch of bullshit.
 

kingofmars

Its 2015 somewhere
won the 2nd Smogon VGC Tournamentis a Past SPL Champion
#62
Obligatory post, so I'm not randed.

After reading through all these posts, I see zorbees as a fairly suspicious character. Voting multiple people, seemingly at random? Or for reasons he has yet to explain. Anyway, I actually agree with stuff most other people have said and I do think Snype is also not to be trusted, though I'm not content with blindly following UncleSam's lead.
Elaborate on that, since all you're really doing is echoing others opinions without giving your own.
 
#63
Um yeah...... I agree with what US said about Snype, but also with Yeti about US. Whats so wrong with echoing others thoughts? If I had any other observations, I would've posted them...... see my comment about zorbees
 

Ditto

/me huggles
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
#64
Not entirely sure if this is correct, but yeah.

Cycle 0
24 (Players) - 5 (Mafia) - 1(Wolf) = 18 (Villagers)
18 - 1 (Mislynch) = 17 (Villagers)

Cycle 1
17 - 1 (Mafia Kill) - 1 (Wolf Kill) = 15 (Villagers)
15 - 1 (Mislynch) = 14 (Villagers)

Cycle 2
14 - 1 (Mafia Kill) - 1 (Wolf Kill) = 12 (Villagers)
12 - 1 (Mislynch) = 11 (Villagers)

Cycle 3
11 - 1 (Mafia Kill) - 1 (Wolf Kill) = 9 (Villagers)
9 - 1 (Mislynch) = 8 (Villagers)

Cycle 4
8 - 1 (Mafia Kill) - 1 (Wolf Kill) = 6 (Villagers)
GAME OVER

This is of course assuming no vigilante or crossfire and that we mislynch. I doubt that there is a wolf, so I guess there could easily be 5 and possibly 6 mafia by themselves, but definitely not with a wolf. That's my main reasoning.
 
#65
I've probably missed the point, but how likely is it that we mislynch every cycle ?_?

Also, a question to Sammy and Brammi: does NOC always have to be played super srs bsns? Not to call you out or doubt your omnipotence or anything, just a question :)

And I don't think anyone has made themselves look like mafia yet. 24 person village anyone?
 

Ditto

/me huggles
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
#66
I've probably missed the point, but how likely is it that we mislynch every cycle ?_?

Also, a question to Sammy and Brammi: does NOC always have to be played super srs bsns? Not to call you out or doubt your omnipotence or anything, just a question :)

And I don't think anyone has made themselves look like mafia yet. 24 person village anyone?
In NOC? It could be pretty likely in the first couple cycles. Mislynches happen a lot more than in OC games.
 
#68
@ Yeti: @ Wording point: I was talking in the general scope. I'm not in every town in every game nor are the other people in this game, it would be wrong to say ourselves.

@ Town expendable point: It's basic metagame stuff. Town are supposed to be expendable. That explaination has nothing to do with alliance, that is pure and simple, proven, accepted and common knowledge stuff. Basic mafia theory. I can link you to a nice, well set out wiki, that has all this stuff in it, just a quick search away. I will grant it is outdated in parts but the raw game mechanics stuff is still all true.

There are of course downsides to lynching townies. But that by no means warrants us to no lynch which is what I was refuting. A mislynch is BETTER for the town than a no lynch. It's a non negotiable fact.

@ Yeti: I will be looking at you if snype flips scum because of his comment made about you. It was a simple textbook distancing tactic. It's not me lining up lynches, it's just me making the rest of the town aware of my thought process.

@ MK: Yes, you guys play OC and powerrole heavy games to have fun, I would consider a noc game to definitely be taken more seriously. Also does that matter. A game getting to 3 man lylo is considered a balanced game and what mods should be aiming for.

@ Ditto: Why the obsession with setup? A common sk tell is to talk about the chance of an sk. IGMEOU
 
#70
Coronis, could you elaborate on "and I do think Snype is also not to be trusted". Ofc, I know that it'd be stupid to just blindly trust everyone, but I'd like to hear if there're any reasons to why you say so about snype. After all, you could have put any name there instead..

Users Kaxtar, Billymills, Crux, Infinity.Cypher, LS, Leethoof, Metal Bagon, Rediamond and TL (hope I didn't miss anyone. If you feel like you should be on the list, this applies to you as well.) I, and certainly everyone else, would appreciate if you could post a bit more. If you need inspiration, a help may be to answer the following:

-Who are the top three scummiest so far?
-Why?
-Who seem most villager so far?
-Why?

Brammi said:
@ Ditto: Why the obsession with setup? A common sk tell is to talk about the chance of an sk. IGMEOU
Agree that it may be a sign of an sk, but I doubt that talking about setup is good enough evidence. However, seeing that none out of five posts by ditto so far contain any thoughts about the game, other than discussion about the setup. It'd seem to me like ditto wants us to discuss the setup rather than analysing posts. Lynch Ditto

I'd like anyone that agree with ditto that providing a guess about the game's setup is more important than to find scum to tell us they do.

kingofkongs said:
Right now, UncleSam and Brammi are providing some good conversation, though UncleSam is less of a dumbass than Brammi is.
Elaborate please, as it's always nice to hear the full thought process. After all, there may be something you see that I don't.

I hate echoing others, but why is US so certain that the announcer is village?

EDIT: Unbolded vote, wanted to see how Ditto, and others, reacted.
 

Ditto

/me huggles
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#71
Haha. In all honesty, I find conversation on the first day to be absolutely pointless. Until we have some scope on how people react by analyzing their dealings in D1 and the lynch to their dealings in D2. For the most part D1 discussion is pulling at straws.

As for my posts here's what they mean if you really want to know.
1) Troll during N0 where, oh guess what, we can't talk about the game.
2) Troll post while waiting for any semblance of discussion to start.
3) Saying my opinion on others' theories of game setup.
4) Answering a question that I was asked.
5) Supporting my answer in Post 4.

How dare I answer a question instead of, I don't know, simply asking other users questions and piggybacking on others' answers like you nEsp? I'll try and look towards your example in the future ^_^
 

Yeti

queen of unclesam's village
is a Community Contributor
#74
I hate echoing others, but why is US so certain that the announcer is village?
clearly, obviously, absolutely positively, he is mafia, and knows that the announcer is not on his team.

this is the only way he could be so certain, unless he is twins, with the announcer, as a villagemember.

but he is probably scum, like crux, who is a scumcrux without a doubt.

also i asked ditto his thoughts on the setup, he replied, settle down sons.
 

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