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Northern Illinois University

Aldaron

Aldaron

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On February 14th, 2008, Steven P. Kazmierczak walked into class and murdered his classmates.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/15/university.shooting.suspect/index.html

That's the story.

My best wishes to any involved. It also brings an interesting argument to the forefront: Should University Campuses be open or closed?

Universities often do work with community centers, Hospitals, and other venues, making them an irreplaceable part of that areas culture...yet this incident should send up red flags.

It seems like the major two (this one and Virginia Tech) were by students anyway, but in an effort to increase security, would you support a closed campus?
 
I read on yahoo news that it's the fifth school shooting within a week? I wonder how I managed to not hear about the other ones...

As far as preventing intruders from getting into buildings go, I will have to admit that here at Virginia Tech, I feel like they haven't done too much. Our residence halls are now locked at all times, and you have to swipe your student ID card to get into the building. However, it's still very easy for someone to follow you in, or for someone to come in as you are heading out. Not to mention some of the doors have that weird handicap mechanism that holds the door open for a few seconds after you open it, so someone could come in after you even if you didn't intend on letting anyone follow. Furthermore, the academic buildings are still open to everyone and unlocked at all times. It really seems like the only thing that they've improved is the emergency notification system. It's not not just limited to emails, but it can send text messages and IMs to students.

On a different note, it really pisses me off that people that wish to kill themselves have to take down others with them.
 
Even with a closed campus someone can go in and shoot the place up, and anyways most of the time it's the students that do the shooting. What concerns me is the frequency these school shootings are happening.
 
Surgo, I'm not speaking about preventing that.

Closing a campus entails only allowing key card access to building, not allowing general community members to traverse the college grounds, etc.

Do you not agree that that might help increase campus security?
 
Sort of. Key card access to buildings is easy to bypass, especially if you're not subtle about it. Not allowing general community members to traverse the place does help a lot, but if one of them wants to shoot some people up they really aren't going to care about that.
 
So I just heard on the news that the same person and website that sold guns/accessories to the Virginia Tech shooter also sold them to the NIU shooter.
 
Surgo said:
Sort of. Key card access to buildings is easy to bypass, especially if you're not subtle about it. Not allowing general community members to traverse the place does help a lot, but if one of them wants to shoot some people up they really aren't going to care about that.
Click to expand...

Well, I lived in West AJ last year, and that was the dorm where the first shootings at Tech occurred. The first shootings at Tech occurred around 7:15 in the morning. If I recall correctly, last year, before dorm security was increased, West AJ's doors were unlocked from 10 AM to maybe midnight. In other words, the only way Cho would've gotten into the building at the time he did was if he followed someone into the building, or if he somehow managed to get a hold of a West AJ resident's ID card.

So basically... point proven.
 
It's easy to tell that the only way to prevent things like this from happening is at the personal level; the administration/other students have to notice who could possibly be a threat and act on it beforehand. Cho had a history of mental problems, he should've never been allowed on that campus.
 
DM, what if you remove a person that in hindsight was not a threat at all? You would have denied an innocent education.
 
akuchi said:
More like "about time we banned guns isn't it"
Click to expand...

banning guns will not solve the problem. if someone really wants a gun there really is no way to stop them unless they have been telling people about their plans and that is not likely.

i don't understand why metal detectors are not mandatory in schools by now. it is not an intrusive way to stop would be trouble makers (murderers in this case) and it has already proven to be fairly effective.
 
yeah because in england school shootings are so common!
when was the last one, 96?
I understand the situation's a lot more complex in america, but still..
 
No, vespa. No. American gun laws are retarded and they are exactly the thing that allows tragedies like these to occur because there is no legal barrier stopping someone from obtaining a gun and pulling the trigger. It's a case of people closing the well after the calf has drowned. My question is: How many shootings will it take to a) see that violence does not solve problems b) for the US government to realise that making firearms publicly available is a bad idea c) for schools to realise the necessity of proper psychological care and attention for those who are sorely starved for it?

It is not the first time a stray person picks up a gun and vents his misery on innocents. It is not the first time that the law allows this to happen. It is not the first time that we, as a society, do not realise the need of our fellow compatriots and that we do not act upon the veiled signals being given out. It won't be the last time, either.

It is things like these that make me fear for the future of our world: it isn't the war in Iraq. It isn't global warming. It isn't nuclear bombs that will destroy us. If we want to change this world and make it a better place to live, it's these small-scale incidents we need to prevent first. We, as a society, are still ill-equipped to provide our neighbours with their social needs; and it is not war with other cultures that will finally be the kiss of death. It's a war with ourselves.
 
I'm a student at NIU and after reading what CNN said about it I figured I'd give you all some more details on exactly what happened yesterday.

The shooter walked into a lecture hall as the TA was starting class at 3pm, coming from behind the TA on the stage. He opened fire on the TA first then into the crowd first using a shotgun, then moved on to the two handguns he was carrying after he ran out of ammunition. He eventually used one of the handguns on himself. He was a student at NIU, but only for one year a few years back, then he transferred to UofIllinois in Champaign. Three of the deaths were of students who made it to the local hospital. Of the 5 victims, 3 were girls. The class consisted of mostly sophomores. The whole community here is in a sense of shock...because this only happens far away, ya know? All of yesterday was chaos. The whole campus of 22k students running around crying, screaming; ambulances and police from every neighboring town with shotguns ready. No cell phone signal, every route blocked, no where that felt safe. It was hell.

One of the victims I knew from high school. I hadn't talked to her in a year or so, but we spent some time together after graduation. Looking at how I feel from that, I can't imagine how those who were close to her feel.

Everything is closed today. I'm not sure what they are going to change, but I'm sure something will.

We were all just pissed that he killed himself. The community as a whole wanted him alive.
 
Altmer said:
No, vespa. No. American gun laws are retarded and they are exactly the thing that allows tragedies like these to occur because there is no legal barrier stopping someone from obtaining a gun and pulling the trigger. It's a case of people closing the well after the calf has drowned. My question is: How many shootings will it take to a) see that violence does not solve problems b) for the US government to realise that making firearms publicly available is a bad idea c) for schools to realise the necessity of proper psychological care and attention for those who are sorely starved for it?

It is not the first time a stray person picks up a gun and vents his misery on innocents. It is not the first time that the law allows this to happen. It is not the first time that we, as a society, do not realise the need of our fellow compatriots and that we do not act upon the veiled signals being given out. It won't be the last time, either.

It is things like these that make me fear for the future of our world: it isn't the war in Iraq. It isn't global warming. It isn't nuclear bombs that will destroy us. If we want to change this world and make it a better place to live, it's these small-scale incidents we need to prevent first. We, as a society, are still ill-equipped to provide our neighbours with their social needs; and it is not war with other cultures that will finally be the kiss of death. It's a war with ourselves.
Click to expand...

but since 1990 the UK's crime rate has been substantially higher than america's.

since 1997 the hand gun crime rate has risen in the UK which is when they were outlawed. are you really trying to tell me that banning them will prevent murder? all banning firearms does is prevent innocent people from defending themselves against criminals who hold no qualms about breaking a few laws.

i do agree with the last part of your post to an extent. the war within is always a raging battle but it will only tear us apart if our attention is drawn away by attacks from the outside. if we devote our complete attention to one the other will destroy us.
 
Obviously hand gun crime rates increase since only outlaws and criminals have access to the guns. It's only them that will ever use those guns anyway.

It won't prevent the occurrence of murder altogether, but I think it will prevent a substantial amount of murders and/or accidents that would otherwise have been committed/occurred due to careless/malevolent use.
 
I live about 20 minutes from the college. I called a few of my friends who go there, to see if they were alright. They were telling me there was a long pause of.. "what the fuck do we do."

There's no ultimate solution for situations like this, but I don't see how making it a closed campus can limit these happenings.
 
Beg to differ, but if guns are hard to get (more so like "illegal") then you prevent it somehow. I don't think i would be able to defend myself against a criminal anyway, even when i know how to use a gun.

But that's not the point (i mean crime), by allowing anyone to get a gun you also take the risk to open a world of possibilities for that gun to find a use, and i bet in few cases they are used on self protection.

They have to figure out a way to prevent this from the core of the problem, targeting potential people that would do this and help them to develop their mental problem (i believe is a mental problem, bear with me).
 
Too bad there wasn't a single substance that was only used in guns where you could spam detectors for so the second you hear that beeping, run the fuck away from whoever walked in!!!

But on the real, yeah there's not much shit you can do =/
 
Oh god.

I live just a few miles away from NIU (chicago burbs), and so many people at my school knew students who were actually involved in the shooting. This was absolutely horrifying.

There's nothing we can do but pray, and try to figure out a way to prevent this kind of thing from happening.

Come on, two major shootings on college campuses within the past few months? We need to find someway to prevent this from happening again, this is way too much. =[

Of course, we can't just strip search every student as they walk into every class, but there has to be something that can be done, can't there?

EDIT: On the closed campus subject, it seems like a valid option. I'm not sure how it would work out, and many students may be against it, in spite of what it may be able to help prevent.
 
I don't understand why guns are publicly available in the US. I don't think people here in Canada would be very happy if all of a sudden we started allowing them at Zellers or some shit like you guys do.

I saw a Fox News report but it was just him talking to a dumb old man capitalizing on this to further his own agenda.
 
Gun control is not the answer to this problem. Overpowering another amendment in the Bill of Rights is moronic and unjust. I'm sick and tired of watching my rights disappear.

Drugs are the real issue at hand. Scientific studies proving that Prozac encourages suicidal tendencies and psychopathic behavior in young people.

Columbine shooters Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, as well as 15-year-old Kip Kinkel, the Oregon killer who gunned down his parents and classmates, and Cho Seung Hui, the Virginia Tech killer, were all on psychotropic drugs.

The media prepares to launch another blitz of gun control propaganda in the wake of the Northern Illinois University shootings, don't fall into the hype.
 
Erm.. if you're depressed enough to be prescribed tablets, you're generally pretty fucked up already.. genuinely, don't go on a crusade against antidepressants, since they're keeping a lot of people alive.
 
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