np: ORAS OU Suspect Process, Round 3 - Wandering Ghosts [Aegislash remains in Ubers]

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I think it would fill a valuable role in the current OU meta in controlling some of the relevant Pokemon which are power creeping the meta, like Mega Metagross, Mega Altaria and Mega Diancie, to name a few. Although it is able to check some of tier greatest threats, it is still limited by a sizeable amount of relevant threats like Mega Charizard Y, Landorus-I, Gengar and so on. Its offensive pressenses can also be benefinical at breaking apart some of the tiers most solid walls, such as Vanilla and Mega Slowbro, Clefable, Celebi and so on. With this in mind I believe that it lacks the diversity in both its defensive and offensive capability to become a overcentralising or broken Pokemon in this current meta. In saying this, I am certain we won't be able to make a crucial decision on the subject without first testing it in the suspect ladder, so my current thoughts are subject to change.

Best of luck to all those going for reqs and I look forward to your opinions and the final result!
 

Albacore

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I'm against unbanning Aegislash. And I’d like explain why I think Aegislash will impact the metagame negatively by focusing on an entirely different Pokemon : Landorus.

Now, Landorus is widely considered to be the most powerful Pokemon in the metagame, besides maybe Metagross and Altaria, both of which are megas and are therefore not found with nearly as much frequency. And Aegislash’s presence in the metagame is just going to make Landorus even harder to deal with than it is now. Simply put, it is the perfect partner for Landorus. Just look at the Pokemon Landorus struggles against : Latios, Latias, Mega Latias, Cresselia, Celebi and Togekiss if not running Sludge Wave, Chansey, Slowking, Starmie to some extent, SpD Skarmory. You know what beats all these pokemon? Aegislash! Aegislash is just the perfect partner to Landorus, it handles all the bulky Psychics and Flying types that cause it trouble, and in return, Landorus takes Ground moves aimed towards it, handling both Amoonguss and Gliscor, Aegi’s 2 best counters, very well. Aegislash makes so many of Landorus’s checks a liability that it will just be harder to harder to deal with.

And yes, you can argue that SpD Mandibuzz, AV Torn-T and SpD YZard handle both of these Pokemon. Except that not only can Aegislash run Head Smash and lure these for Landorus, but Landorus can run Rock Slide and do the exact same thing for Aegi (though Rock Slide doesn’t 2HKO SpD mandibuzz, it does after SR damage, and gives that Mandibuzz is usually the Defogger it’s probably going to switch into SR). So, when you have a Torn-T and you’re facing a team with Aegislsh and Landorus (which you’ll find to be a common occurrence on the suspect ladder), you don’t know if Landorus will have Rock Slide, Aegi will have Head Smash, both or neither. And besides, with Aegislash in the metagame, Landors can easily afford to run Rock Slide. After all, the standard RP set run Earth Power, HP Ice and Sludge Wave. The only thing Sludge Wave really hits are Togekiss and Celebi. Togekiss already takes a lot from Rock Slide, and Celebi will probably dissapear off the face of the earth with Aegislash around. So the standard RP set will probably shift to RP/Earth Power/HP Ice/Rock Slide, and with Aegislash as pursuit support or just support in general, it’ll be more effective than it’s ever been.

You can also argue that we can just ban Landorus later if it’s a problem. But this suspect test is supposed to evaluate Aegislash’s effect on the current metagame, the one with Landorus in it, and that effect is probably pretty negative. Sure, we can suspect and ban Landorus later, but we can’t just assume Landorus will be banned eventually and vote depending on that. We didn’t let Deo-D stay in OU anticipating a Bisharp suspect. And it’s not like Landorus is the only thing which appreciates Aegi’s presence. Aegislash is still pretty ridiculous on it own right as I’m sure other people in this thread will explain in great detail, but it’s the impact it has on the metagame which is the real problem. For every Pokemon made worse Aegislash, another is made better because it doesn’t have to deal with something Aegislash beats. Aegislash is basically a catalyst for making powerful Pokemon more powerful. By invalidating all kinds of builds and Pokemon, other Pokemon can thrive off its back. For example, in XY, Landorus, Thundurus and Charizard-X were considered to be broken by some. But once Aegi left, they turned out not to be. So, if we unbn Aegi, we’ll need to do a bunch of more bans to have an enjoyable metagame, and then we’ll still have Aegislash as the most centralising, powerful force, creating a very static metagame of Aegi builds vs non-Aegi builds.

Really, the idea that we should handle threats by introducing a completely centralising threat to the metagame and thus creating an illusion of balance seems like the wrong approach to me. This kinda ties in to what I said in the Giratina suspect thread about the choice between a stale metagame vs a difficult one to build for. The thing is, that’s just with one ban/unban. If we look in the long run, unbanning more and more stuff will just lead to an even more stale metagame. On the other hand, if we ban more and more things, we’ll eventually end up with fewer threats we need to account for, and thus, easier teambuilding. Sure, these threats we ban would keep other threats in check, but at a certain point you’ll only end up with Pokemon which already have enough solid checks and counters to not be considered broken. So even if by banning one thing other threats rise to the top, if these threats are problematic, if they stay on top no matter how the metagame evolves around it, we can ban them, if not we can keep them. At the end of the line, if most Pokemon in the metagame have a solid number of good checks and can be handled my all playstyles, we know we’ve achieved a balanced metagame.

To me, unbanning things in general really seems like the wrong way to go right now, because no matter what, we’ll never get a perfect metagame if we do that, we’ll always have this one centralising force which controls the metagame and makes it boring, whereas by banning stuff, we progressively get a more and more diverse and enjoyable metagame. So imo, don’t unban Aegi, keep banning stuff, we’ll get a good metagame eventually.
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

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I don't have a completely strong opinion on this yet since we're in an ORAS metagame for now and it's been a while since Aegislash was banned, though I kind of want it to stay in Ubers for the time being. I never found it particularly overpowering, but my biggest qualm with this mon back then was how much it polarized OU. It made so many former superstars like Celebi, Jirachi, and Starmie into garbage: I mean seriously, OU top stars becoming mediocre UU threats. Hawlucha is also a potent mon and it sucked in the Aegi meta, and Bronzong was also pretty bad too. What I'm saying is that Aegislash practically invalidated the use of a lot of otherwise good or at least decent Pokemon. Basically, what I'm saying is that Aegislash can take on and practically invalidate these mons since it defensively pigeonholes them and with its Blade forme at 150 Attack and good movepool, it can pose a real threat to whatever it is up against. And of course, those mighty 50/50 mindgames are really annoying, but not as big of an issue for me as is the polarization. It severely warps teambuilding in a sense in that it invalidates usage of otherwise good Pokemon and even makes things otherwise not worth using such as Krookodile into viable Pokemon.

And Jirachi would go from being really good to absolutely terrible with Aegislash around....

But of course, let the suspect testing commence, we shall see how things fare this time around!
 
Yes! I personally feel that this would be a great suspect for OU. Aegislash is arguably one of the best hard walls to nearly every fairy in the game, one of the most prominent And devastating forces in OU. It would make Pokemon run different sets and more surprises. Honestly, I feel Aegislash would be a cool Pokemon to try out in this Meta, just to see how it goes.
 
Im really pumped about a suspect test for Aegislash, while i agree the ORAS metagame is much different from X/Y, is it enough to justify The spooky swords entrance back into the metagame. Even though the Giratina-O suspect was an April fools, aegislash still falls under the boat. By that i mean teams loose nothing just from slapping it on. Want a Metagross, gardevoir and Gallade check all in one? run this guy. Honestly only about 20+ megas were added to combat the sword, and while some of them can handle him, like Diance, Lopunny (watch out for king shield though), and to a lesser extent, Mega Steelix, Camerupt and Swampert, Most megas are just free switches for it to come in. Metagross not running EQ (This would make skarmory a Metagross counter if The sword stays), Scizor and Gallade (watch out for Knock Off though) and lesser pokemon, Mega Sceptile and Galile are just unviable now with Aegislash running around. Landorus, probably the most threatening S-Rank pokemon right now, isn't even threatened that much, since EP kills, and thats the only move that is a guarantee on it. overall, i like the idea of trying to retest it, but the metagame hasn't evolved enough to justify letting this guy run around the OU metagame.
 
BUT I DON'T WANT TO LEAVE!!!!

Honestly this was due for quite a while. Aegislash would still be a defining force in OU with all its good attributes, but the power creep from everything in the past few months should allow it to be easier to handle now. New powerful pokemon along with old mons getting moves that can deal with the sword ghost now are rather prevalent, it should still be a force to reckon with but not to the point where you need really something just to counter it. mega Sableye already deal with it pretty well I think
 
I'm Curious to see how the meta has adapted since ORAS and i wanna see how Aegislash does. Besides if it becomes too over centralizing we can just reban it amirite? Though the fact that forcing things like M-Meta to run EQ is a bit.. ehh and also rip CC on M-Pinsir. I still wanna see it again as im curious about it
#FREEAEGISLASH2015
EDIT: Wait so who is gonna be our reliable Aegis switchin atm cause in my mind im thinking something like M-Sabe but like
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 124 SpD Mega Sableye: 127-151 (41.7 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO If Mega already
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 124 SpD Sableye: 192-226 (63.1 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO If not
 
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AM

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I don't really have an opinion on the suspect right now to formulate a more detailed thought but the 50/50 arguments were never good when it was around and they won't be good now lol regardless of your opinion on the suspect. Also people really need to stop the whole matchup issue as if it's such an extreme burden that makes or breaks games. It's one of the most over exaggerated points that I read all the time to justify suspects like this and granted there are match up concerns but getting 6-0'd at team preview is simply untrue.

Aegi meta and other meta is simply just an entirely different meta btw. There isn't one that's factually better it's really just based on preference. My only concern is how much stronger Aegislash will make other pokemon, not Aegislash itself. I think anyone who has played the Aegi meta knows it's checkable an not unbeatable but it always made stuff like Landorus and M-Gyarados strong as hell because it blanket checked so many problems they had in the first place. I know we'll love talking about Aegislash from a 1v1 perspective when about 80% of the community like always is going to miss that aspect of its team support utility.
 

Clone

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having something that blanket checks about a third of the meta is a good thing imo. people complain about how hard teambuilding is because preparing for 50 different things is impossible. well, with aegis in the tier it now is possible. the main concern i do have with this is how centralizing aegis may be, but thats what the suspect ladder is for and ill make my decision there. rn im pro ou becasue i was back then, and i still fail to see how aegis is op when ground and dark types run ou. also new stuff like mega sab hard checks it. will probably post my full thoughts later.
 
The Aegislash metagame has been the worse thing i ever played and even though i think ORAS is not really that great, I don't want to see Aegi back in OU.

The first problem is the centralization, Aegislash is way too good to not be a viable choice in any sorts of team, i don't think that balancing the metagame means blocking half the metagame with a mon. I like the fact that smogon is thinking about solutions to change the metagame but it's not it, i'd rather see every annoying mon suspected than having the false-good-idea that unbanning Aegislash is.
The second problem is the fact that this mon is not like DPP Latias who was centralizing but was not that hard to counter, it is played because it is really broken. 150 / 150 / 150 / 150 in base stats technically since you can KS all day and you are slow / powerful enough to never be hit while in Blade form, King shield made the metagame a game of poker full of 50/50 which is gamebreaking and absolutely skill-less and this mon is way too versatile... SubToxic, SD, +2 speed, Mixed, Fast without King shield etc...This mon is terribly good both offensively and defensively, with great stats, typing and movepool. It is also pretty hard to counter with pokemon that kind of blend in every teams, you have to play some specific mons such as Mandibuzz (that can actually be lured out with some head smash shenanigans) or playing mons that can only switch once or twice on a good prediction such as Heatran, Bisharp or Ttar.

The best 6th Gen metagame was, in my opinion, after Aegi's ban and before ORAS, it was actually pretty good and I think that the problem comes from ORAS, Aegislash just happens to block the new mons but it won't solve everything. The problem in the actual metagame is that it is way too much based on match-up and teambuilding in not rewarding at all, Aegislash would kind of erase that problem but it will add so much more that it is not a viable idea in my opinion.
 
For my starting comments, I'd like to say that Aegis counters or checks a HUGE portion of the current OU metagame. It wasn't banned for being broken, it was banned for the same thing it would do if it were to be unbanned right now - it's extremely overcentralizing. That's not even bringing up that it would make Landorus-I an even stronger offensive force with excellent synergy between the two. I've found the current meta to be quite stable compared to what we've had the past several months, and, IMO, bringing Aegis back would unbalance it all over again.

Of course, my opinions might change over the course of this suspect, and I'll definitely be laddering to see how Aegis fares in the ORAS meta. This should be quite fun.
 
Okay this is a suspect I wanted to post my thoughts on for a long time because I never got chance due to my hiatus. Anyways the tier is seriously lacking some great pivots in the tier (which is the primary reason Landorus-T has so much usage in the meta). Aegislash would bring life into OU again by mitigating the current matchup issue that everyone has been complaining about as of late (in particular Mega Metagross and Mega Altaria have been causing quit a stir) and Aegislash is nice blanket check to problematic Fairy-types. People commonly brought up the notion that it forced 50/50s in its favor consistently, but it's prediction argument that goes both ways. Yes it was able to screw over counters like Hippowdon and Mandibuzz during the XY meta with its SubToxic set, but it came with an opportunity cost of sacrificing its offensive prowess. There are too many Pokemon that are viable in this metagame and because of this fact it's very hard to team build when the only notable pivots in the tier are Landorus-T, TankChomp, and... not much else. Yes it is centralising there's no doubt there, but as community we have to consider if we want a cnetralised metagame where it's easy to team build or do we want a metagame where matchup is too much of an issue making you wide open to being destroyed by something that threatens your team. Aegislash will indeed warp the meta by quite a bit due to checking Fairy-, Fighting-, and Psychic-types all in one slot which eases team building a lot. I'm all for bringing this mon back to OU.
 

Da Pizza Man

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I was hoping for Giratina-O when I saw the title :-(


But yes I really want Aegislash to be OU again, it can deal with Altaria and Metagross which are both overcentralizing™, and lots of other megas, especially the new ones like Slowbro

It's also countered by landorus-I and also has a hard time dealing with most things that have EQ, so it definitely fits well into OU as the meta has been quite stale recently

also lmoa 2:1 w/l to be able to vote, damn it
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 193-228 (60.5 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus: 67-81 (21 - 25.3%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO

Thats a real nice Counter to Aegislash if you have to hope for low damage rolls to beat it
 
The community needs to basically decide what they really want. Previously I've thought the priority was to have a diverse metagame with many viable Pokemon, but now it's become a trend for people to complain about matchup. Aegislash would fix that problem by centralising things and making loads of the meta's diverse threats significantly less viable... the very thing we banned it for in the first place, right? It has not got any worse. It has a great matchup against most of the ORAS Megas. What I don't understand is why there has been this reversal of consensus on the idea of centralisation recently, which I honestly think has a component of bandwagoning. If a more centralised metagame is now considered a good thing, it seems even weirder that the Giratina-O thing was just a joke.
 

Valmanway

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Yeah, can we not bring Aegislash back, please? This would just remove the variety of teams by killing so many things in the metagame, like Latios, Celebi, Mega Gardevoir, Latias, Starmie, Tornadus-T, Mega Gallade, Jirachi, Chesnaught, Dragalge, Kabutops, Terrakion, Mega Beedrill, Hawlucha, Mega Sceptile, Scizor, Serperior, and a lot more. Bringing back Aegislash would remove a lot of the variety in OU and would in turn make the metagame very centralizing in an unhealthy way. Every offensive team would have Mandibuzz and three checks to Aegislash, every defensive team would be annoying as hell to face, and that's not what I think the metagame should be like.

Besides, if I wanted to constantly play a game of 50/50s, I'd just play this instead: http://justflipacoin.com/
 

jpw234

Catastrophic Event Specialist
Just running through the viability rankings, here's some Pokemon that become complete liabilities in an Aegislash meta because they allow free or semi-free switches to the monster:

Clefable, Celebi, Gardevoir, Slowbro, Starmie, Venusaur, Aerodactyl, Alakazam, Jirachi, Breloom, Dragalge, Togekiss, Terrakion w/o EQ, Hawlucha, Sceptile, Serperior, Reuniclus w/o Shadow Ball, Sylveon.

Of course we also know that it checks Metagross, Altaria, Diancie, Lati@s, Tornadus-T, Kyurem-B, Pinsir...and in return we get what, Lopunny, a mon that can't switch in ever and can still lose 1v1 to King's Shield? What about the meta has changed to make this thing coming back desirable?
 

Thunder Pwoell

Banned deucer.
Except for the fact that many of these Pokemon have viable checks to begin with, and you do not need Aegislash to suddenly make these Pokemon a lot worse in the state of the metagame. Do you like Hawlucha? Aegislash makes it unviable. Do you like Toxicroak? Aegislash makes it garbage. Do you like Starmie, Celebi, and Jirachi? They all suck now because of Aegislash.
This argument is flawed as it can be applied to A LOT of mons. I will use your words as an example.


Mega Lopunny

Do you like umbreon? Fast offensive mons? Hydreigon? *Mega Lopunny* makes it unviable

Mega Alataria
Do you like umbreon? Do you like most non scarf mons named ferrothron? *Mega Altaria*
 

Tricking

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Well, I thought that this would happen, but Aegislash doesn't have to be unbanned.

1) It has a great matchup against (most-used Pokemon which would suffer from the unban)
- Mega Metagross (it would be forced to use EQ and to lose Hammer Arm which gave it a very good coverage)
- Mega Diancie
- Mega Aerodactyl
- Mega Scizor (in the majority of scenarios)
- Mega Gallade and Medicham
- Mega Beedrill
- Jirachi
- Celebi
- Latwins
- Hawlucha
- Serperior
- Reuniclus (sigh)
- Sylveon
- Dragalge
- Slowbro / Slowking
- Gardevoir
- Pinsir (unless EQ)
- Venusaur
- Starmie
... and maybe I forgot something ...

2) It forces every Physical Sweeper (except for Bisharp) to play a 50/50 scenario every time against Aegislash and this would be very detrimental for the tier. Also Mega-Lopunny suffers a lot from this 50/50 situation.
3) Stall and Balanced builds would increase their power in the tier, it limits the teambuilding, it has a typing which helps a lot Hazards Stacking being a Spin blocker and having a free kill against all the defoggers in the tier except for Mandibuzz which can be statused thanks to Toxic.
4) Landorus-I and Bisharp would be the only two Pokemon which can take advantage from this unban while every other Pokemon would suffer from its introduction in the tier.

All these statement can confirm that Aegislash limits the teambuilding and is a centralizing presence in the Tier. Every team would be forced to have plenty of its checks and this is the definition of a broken Pokemon which doesn't deserve to be unbanned.
 
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I have quite some memories from the XY Aegislash metagame. They were mostly quite bad, exactly because of Aegislash's presence. This thing requires at the very least two Pokémon on one's team to check, since Aegislash has a diverse enough movepool and stat distribution to run a shitload of options and trouble all kinds of teams, meaning you never know what exactly it's going to run. Let's not forget how insanely easily Aegislash checks many Pokémon in the metagame and renders an absolute shitload of Pokémon less viable, if not outright unviable (look at the Pokémon posted by Valmanway; some of those are pretty dominant yet not unhealthy and can definitely be dealt with). Yes, some Pokémon in the metagame are going to be hard to face. But haven't those Pokémon always been there, too? If we bring Aegislash back, that will be the one Pokémon you'll always have to keep your eyes peeled for. Every goddamn time.

Sure, Aegislash will shake up the metagame, but I'm highly positive it'll be a negative shift, as I've pointed out in my first paragraph. The metagame will revolve around the accursed sword again since you need to overprepare the shit out of your team for it. If I now take a look at people complaining about the current ORAS metagame being stale and see those same likes support the return of that goddamn blade, then I hope I'm not the only one who utters a deep groan at the immense irony.

Reintroducing Aegislash is only going to make the problems worse. The metagame will once again be a stale, uncreative and exceedingly boring wasteland of a meta. Keep Aegislash in Ubers, for the love of Mega Rayquaza above.

This argument is flawed as it can be applied to A LOT of mons. I will use your words as an example.


Mega Lopunny

Do you like umbreon? Fast offensive mons? Hydreigon? *Mega Lopunny* makes it unviable

Mega Alataria
Do you like umbreon? Do you like most non scarf mons named ferrothron? *Mega Altaria*
Your logic is flawed, considering Umbreon isn't even viable in OU in the first place. Alfalfa has made an excellent point, your retort is simply flawed. There's a difference between liking a Pokémon and using an actually good Pokémon.
 
First of all let me just say im all for aegislash returning to ou and i have some reasons why.

1. Team building right now is next to fucking ridiculous. Battles these days do not depict skill because it doesnt matter how much you try to cover weaknesses, a huge hole is open for a mon to destroy your team. Aegislash fixes that problem. It has patches holes really nicely but has has strong weak points as well. Although the mon of the hour right now is lanodo-i, hard hitters such as gengar and zard y are unbelievably powerful mons that hurts teams and aegislash will only find itself hurt by that. Mega gross also delivers a solid 2hko on aegislash with eq therefore making it not a switch in. With some prior damage +1 eq from altaria knocks it out. Even diancie's earth power 2hko's. Bulky chomp which almost everyone is using beats aegi. bisharp, despite not being a switch in, beats aegi. sp.def gliscor laughs at aegi. keldeo isnt a switch in but 1v1 it beats aegi. heatran beats aegi. spdef talonflame beats aegi. drill and the lando's beat aegi. torn beats aegi. volcarona which has being seeing decent usage lately beats aegi. and several other things beat it.

2. Almost all the mons people think this thing is going to make worthless, are either made worthless by another mon already or shouldnt be mentioned due to no usage. Mega medicham for starters shouldnt be mentioned in this because no one uses that thing anymore. the same thing aegi does to altaria, gross already did and did it worse. Same goes for just about every fairy there is.

3. people say it will make some mons lose viablity but several mons do that. the thing is it maes other mons viable too. bisharp gets more attention, diggersby (which is actually a good mon unlike the bs mons ppl normally mention like p2) will get attention it deserves and it bring creativity out of more people to make the somewhat boring ou meta we have come back to life

4. it serves as a check to annoying mons such as serperior which destroys teams (making people have to hope it doesnt have hp fire or hp ground.
 
Edit by haunter: please check the OP.

The problem I have with Aegi coming back is that not only does it over-centralize itself with great typing, stats, and ability to blanket check threats, it singlehandedly exacerbates already existing problems within the game. Lando-I, an already clearly established threat, has his potency magnified with Aegi's presence. Other pokemon, like Starmie, M-Medi, M-Gallade, who have enjoyed increasing success lately, risk losing a lot of their viability. I understand and am aware of the threat that Metagross, Diancie, and Gardevoir pose, but the "over-centralization" (if any) that these mons induce is outweighed by the centralization Aegislash will inevitably induce. IMO, Aegi is just trading one poison for another, and "broken to counter broken" is not any way we should attempt to handle the problems in the game.
 
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Holiday

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#bringaegislashback

I'm just kidding let it stay in Ubers. Tricking put it best: two Pokemon get better due to the unbanning of Aegi (one of which is already the best Pokemon in the tier right now) while limiting countless of others. Gardevoir's like 25th in usage right now, and that thing is going to be seen nowhere. Diancie can try to put up a fight with Earth Power, lest it be wiped clean by Iron Head or Flash Cannon. You don't lose anything by slapping this Pokemon on your team, except maybe your self worth for using broken crap.

Just leave it in Ubers and send Lando-I up there with it.
 
I guess it's cool that Aegislash is being retested, but the worst part is that it might overcentralize yet again.

I can see the viability of 25+ OU Pokemon changing just cuz of Aegislash. About 3 of them would go up, the rest down. ORAS gave a good counter to Aegislash, but it falls to the almighty King's Shield. That move is the best (and worst) thing about Aegislash. It cripples Aegislash by only letting it run 3 other moves, but it switches Aegislash back to shield form and gives a -2 Atk to anything using a contact move. The counter I'd like to talk about is Mega Lopunny. Scrappy + High Jump Kick would wipe out Aegislash easily, but Aegislash constantly creates 50/50's. I can literally see matches where it's basically Mega Lopunny uses HJK, Aegislash used King's Shield, Lopunny loses 50% of its HP and gets -2.then the Aegislash user can switch to something that eats up Hjk.

All I'm saying here is that the one true counter it has falls to one move, now just spread that to a whole bunch of Pokemon, teams are gonna have dedicated checks just for Aegislash.

Last note, #FreeGenesectORAS
Next suspect test should be Genesect for TONS OF REASONS
 
This argument is flawed as it can be applied to A LOT of mons. I will use your words as an example.


Mega Lopunny

Do you like umbreon? Fast offensive mons? Hydreigon? *Mega Lopunny* makes it unviable

Mega Alataria
Do you like umbreon? Do you like most non scarf mons named ferrothron? *Mega Altaria*
K, there's a bit of flawed logic there, as many people pointed out in the suspect test for banning aegislash is that it has absolutely no opportunity cost. Running M-alt or M-lop means your can't run, say, zard x/y, or m-meta, or any other mega. Aegislash doesn't have that restriction. Also, umbreon wasn't very viable before those mons were introduced, so that doesn't really work. Hydreigon and fast offensive mons aren't unviable because of lopunny, because lop sure as hell can't switch in to those guys. It can check them, and be difficult for offense to switch into, but it doesn't make HO or hydreigon unviable. Not even sure what your are saying with Mega-alt, but altaria has better checks than ferrothorn, and doesn't make the entire tier unviable. The point of my argument is that you can slap aegislash on any archetype or team (stall: subtoxic, Balance: its other sets) except arguably HO, and there is no repercussions for doing that, as it has amazing defensive typing, blanket checks half to three quarters of the entire tier, and isn't a mega. You can't really compare it to lop and altaria as they are megas. It is more similar to greninja in that regard in my opinion, as every team had greninja or was stall, and every team had to run at least two checks/counters to it, but at least greninja didn't make half the tier unviable.
 
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