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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 1 - ...wait, I'm not Jumpman16!

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TBH i dont care anymore if rain is banned or not.
If its banned, fine adapt to it. If its not, fine were going along with the current metagame were playing. Although no drizzle means my fun days of abusing toxicroak will end, but it is for the best if it IS broken(im not sure its broke or not, you decide)

What make me lol is Doryuuzu get 2 times higher number of vote than Latios.
GOSH WTH is happening here dangit
 
TM13IceBeam said:
Tiering is based on usage and not stats/usefulness. If every Gen 4 player simultaneously started playing RD teams, Trode would be OU, since it is the most useful RD lead.
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Don't worry everyone, Captain Obvious to the rescue!

On a serious note, don't ban Rain/Drizzle. The difference between Drizzle and Inconsistent is that Drizzle takes skill to use. And it's not over-centralizing. If you've got a problem with Rain, just throw in a Swift Swimmer that can actually counter a good deal of Rain teams. Or just try a different weather effect.

Just ban Manaphy. Durrrrz
 
Empress Mobile said:
Don't worry everyone, Captain Obvious to the rescue!

On a serious note, don't ban Rain/Drizzle. The difference between Drizzle and Inconsistent is that Drizzle takes skill to use. And it's not over-centralizing. If you've got a problem with Rain, just throw in a Swift Swimmer that can actually counter a good deal of Rain teams. Or just try a different weather effect.

Just ban Manaphy. Durrrrz
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Drizzle doesn't really take that much skill to actually use. Make sure your Politoed doesn't die in your opponent has a Weather Pokemon, use two to three Swift Swim Pokemon, one Pokemon to deal with Sandstorm, and possibly a Scarfer.

Average Rain team, doesn't even take five minutes to make, easily gets to the top 100s in Standard OU. Seen people do it, and done it myself.
 
Empress Mobile said:
Don't worry everyone, Captain Obvious to the rescue!

On a serious note, don't ban Rain/Drizzle. The difference between Drizzle and Inconsistent is that Drizzle takes skill to use. And it's not over-centralizing. If you've got a problem with Rain, just throw in a Swift Swimmer that can actually counter a good deal of Rain teams. Or just try a different weather effect.

Just ban Manaphy. Durrrrz
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How does using drizzle take skill? You send out a politoed and your pokemon are instantly boosted. It hardly requires any thought process in building a team because there are so many swift swimmers. If it took skill to use drizzle it wouldn't be up for voting, and it wouldn't have gotten simple majority.
 
JSND said:
TBH i dont care anymore if rain is banned or not.
If its banned, fine adapt to it. If its not, fine were going along with the current metagame were playing. Although no drizzle means my fun days of abusing toxicroak will end, but it is for the best if it IS broken(im not sure its broke or not, you decide)

What make me lol is Doryuuzu get 2 times higher number of vote than Latios.
GOSH WTH is happening here dangit
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Something that happened was that Latios got waaay less usage than Doryuuzu in the Suspect test, in my experience and with some of my friends' experience. According to PO statistics, Doryuuzu had a ~12.5% usage and Latios had a ~7% usage; I know that PO statistics =/= Smogon ones, but it's a close-enough approximation.
 
Engineer Pikachu said:
Something that happened was that Latios got waaay less usage than Doryuuzu in the Suspect test, in my experience and with some of my friends' experience. According to PO statistics, Doryuuzu had a ~12.5% usage and Latios had a ~7% usage; I know that PO statistics =/= Smogon ones, but it's a close-enough approximation.
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Ya the latios vote next round will probably be closer to banning than last round because its usage will probably rise
 
Drizzle DO take skill to use since toed plain sucks and thats the ONLY problem.
Otherwise the beast inside OMG instant baton pass +2 on all stats, Specs Dragon that get walled by burungeru but insane, Ludi "not so special" colo, blah3x and OMG THE MOST BROKEN TYPE IN TEH GAME ITSELF !!!!!! BROKEN Water Type all make up for those faults and making it nearly taking no skill to use.

The only time you need to think is when you are in higher rank of the ladder where SS user suddenly become good, so you must become good and being better yourself to not be beaten by good played SS team.

The biggest saving grace for non rain team is rain only have ACTUAL(swift swim + manaphy) 9 "true" abuser and even from 9, 2 is argued upon being not good(floatzel and Qwilfish), 2 is not used much and not THAT kind effective although theyre downright insane in suppot sweep category(gorebyss and Huntail). WHich leaves you on 5 pokemon, precisely kingdra, Ludicolo, Kabutops, Manaphy, Omastar.

Seriously its not the Swift swin that make Rain nearly on broken zone. Its the fact that it boost the most broken type in the game to the point of making it EVEN more broken.

But meh i wont care since all i care is ban ? adapt no ban ? alright play like usual. Whos with me on this fact ? We have experienced mence ban, and there we get throught it. We have experienced blah3 ban or allowance and yeah we play it and got through it. So if drizzle is banned, were going to experience the same in the end

@ above Doryuuzu more than latios is not so surprising TBH. after an SD he become insane and stopping him isnt as easy as saying k thx even with checks. Hes an adept revenge killer and having a ground STAB and a good late game cleaner all at one. Hes as useful as scizor last gen
Using him feels like using Rain Nite on Ubers really. Need support but kick so much ass if used right.
 
JSND said:
Drizzle DO take skill to use since toed plain sucks and thats the ONLY problem.
Otherwise the beast inside OMG instant baton pass +2 on all stats, Specs Dragon that get walled by burungeru but insane, Ludi "not so special" colo, blah3x and OMG THE MOST BROKEN TYPE IN TEH GAME ITSELF !!!!!! BROKEN Water Type all make up for those faults and making it nearly taking no skill to use.

The only time you need to think is when you are in higher rank of the ladder where SS user suddenly become good, so you must become good and being better yourself to not be beaten by good played SS team.

The biggest saving grace for non rain team is rain only have ACTUAL(swift swim + manaphy) 9 "true" abuser and even from 9, 2 is argued upon being not good(floatzel and Qwilfish), 2 is not used much and not THAT kind effective although theyre downright insane in suppot sweep category(gorebyss and Huntail). WHich leaves you on 5 pokemon, precisely kingdra, Ludicolo, Kabutops, Manaphy, Omastar.

Seriously its not the Swift swin that make Rain nearly on broken zone. Its the fact that it boost the most broken type in the game to the point of making it EVEN more broken.

But meh i wont care since all i care is ban ? adapt no ban ? alright play like usual. Whos with me on this fact ? We have experienced mence ban, and there we get throught it. We have experienced blah3 ban or allowance and yeah we play it and got through it. So if drizzle is banned, were going to experience the same in the end

@ above Doryuuzu more than latios is not so surprising TBH. after an SD he become insane and stopping him isnt as easy as saying k thx even with checks. Hes an adept revenge killer and having a ground STAB and a good late game cleaner all at one. Hes as useful as scizor last gen
Using him feels like using Rain Nite on Ubers really. Need support but kick so much ass if used right.
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What you're saying is that Rain teams have 5 good abusers....that's a whole team right there.

Politoed,and 4 -5 Rain abusers.
That alone with a good player is stupidly difficult to beat.

You're also saying that you only need to use skill against Sand teams,that alone should say that something is wrong with Drizzle.
 
Politoed's stats aren't bad. He has just enough defenses to supplement his god-like support movepool (can't tell you how many times Perish Song has saved me) and his STAB is always boosted because of his ability. His stats have always been relatively decent, he's just had to live in the shadows of other bulky Water types with even better stats and attributes. Now that his trump card has been released, he's a step above them all.
 
but poli + 5 abuser is a bad team.
A good RD team even the modern one must limit their sweeper.
And yeah drizzle is good when a good team of balanced build ( not your poli 5 spam team) is made
 
JSND said:
but poli + 5 abuser is a bad team.
A good RD team even the modern one must limit their sweeper.
And yeah drizzle is good when a good team of balanced build ( not your poli 5 spam team) is made
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-politoed
-gorebyss
-kabutops
-kingdra
-ludicolo
-huntail/omastar/a non swift swimmer

seems like a pretty stacked team from where im sitting
 
Kefka the god of magic said:
Who runs Abomasnow again? Hail teams. And we all know how powerful and common hail teams are.
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You don't have to be a hail team to run abomasnow. I used Abomasnow in my team last round, even though I had no other pokemon who was supported by hail. It's still a pretty decent pokemon in its own right, with stab priority and a water resistance with no ice or electric weakness. Ice stab helps as well. It's useful for disrupting Sand and Sun as well, which are common in this weather centric metagame.
 
Abomasnow is perfect then! With his 4x Fire weakness and his 2x Rock,Bug,Flying,Fighting,and Steel weaknesses.
Along with his mediocre stats and somewhat disadvantageous ability,he's PERFECT to counter rain teams!
 
Arc Tech said:
Seems like a team that is completely manhandled by abomasnow from where I'm standing.
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Lol are you trying to say abomasnow can beat all 5 of those pokemon? i never realized that abomasnow could outspeed kingdra/kabutops/ludicolo even without the rain, oh wait it can't. So please elaborate on this and tell me how abomasnow can beat this team?
 
Kefka the god of magic said:
Abomasnow is perfect then! With his 4x Fire weakness and his 2x Rock,Bug,Flying,Fighting,and Steel weaknesses.
Along with his mediocre stats and somewhat disadvantageous ability,he's PERFECT to counter rain teams!
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You have to admit that all of those types are pretty rare on Rain Teams aside from their 1-2 physical sweepers.

Edit:
Lamppost said:
Lol are you trying to say abomasnow can beat all 5 of those pokemon? i never realized that abomasnow could outspeed kingdra/kabutops/ludicolo even without the rain, oh wait it can't. So please elaborate on this and tell me how abomasnow can beat this team?
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I'm assuming he means Abomasnow can cripple a rain team well enough so that the rest of your team can clean up easily. It doesn't really have to do much beyond killing rain and threatening SE attacks on Poli to stop a rain team's momentum.
 
XienZo said:
You have to admit that all of those types are pretty rare on Rain Teams aside from their 1-2 physical sweepers.

Edit:


I'm assuming he means Abomasnow can cripple a rain team well enough so that the rest of your team can clean up easily. It doesn't really have to do much beyond killing rain and threatening SE attacks on Poli to stop a rain team's momentum.
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Well IMO abomasnow is much easier to kill than politoed, and who would let their politoed die right out of the gate knowing that your opponent has an abomasnow.
 
Lamppost said:
Well IMO abomasnow is much easier to kill than politoed, and who would let their politoed die right out of the gate knowing that your opponent has an abomasnow.
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Well, yeah, you're not going to let Politoed die, but you can't quite switch it in to restart the rain either. It's also difficult to switch in your Kabutops and others with SE coverage to stop Abomasnow since they generally fear the Grass STAB.
 
XienZo said:
Well, yeah, you're not going to let Politoed die, but you can't quite switch it in to restart the rain either. It's also difficult to switch in your Kabutops and others with SE coverage to stop Abomasnow since they generally fear the Grass STAB.
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Ludicolo and Kingdra take neutral damage from Abomasnow's STAB attacks,and coming from his amazing stats,it's not going to hurt that much.
 
Kefka the god of magic said:
What I kinda meant is,that he's kinda useless when you're NOT fighting a rain team.
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Not true. Specially denfensive versions can take latios' draco meteor and counterattack with blizzard, stripping away most if not all of latios' health. A priority attack, especially with a good typing like ice, is always helpful. It can also come in on most bulky waters and threaten them, and proceed to subseed, focus punch, or hp fire depending on its set and the predicted switch in.

Also note that weather pretty much defines this metagame. Hail, being the least useful weather, is basicly the anti-weather. It is useful against sun and sand teams as well, even if it can't come in on them with ease like rain teams. You can build a team that doesn't depend on it for their purposes but only to cripple their opponent's weather with hail, which you can't really do with the other weathers- you may run into a team that uses any of the other weathers and if you're carrying that weather to stop others, but not really using it, then they'd have a pretty good advantage over you.
 
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