MK and I just a a short talk on this and things that beat it include Honchkrow, Krookodile, Cofagrigus and Cryogonal. Discuss.
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np: RU Stage 2 - Dancing Queen
- Thread starter Oglemi
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It's quite a little bit less bulkier than Cresselia--Cresselia was sure banned, but it did have some solid counters to it as well. Drapion beats it 100% with Toxic Spikes, Taunt, Whirlwind, Crunch, etc... and he really needs only 2 of them to shut Musharna down properly. Just about everything with Taunt beats it, especially given that everything not named Munchlax and Ferroseed can outspeed Musharna. Stuff like Gligar can wall +1 Stored Power and prevents it from setting up any further, while Taunt Murkrow just shits on it in every way possible. Trick Scarf works against it really well, and the unreliable RestTalk prevents it from switching in and out to avoid the threat of Trick Scarf. It also gets maimed by Spike-stacking offense and bug-types like Scyther and even Accelgor can overwhelm it and leave it at low health. If you want more mainstream checks, stuff like Taunt+ Bulk Up Gallade is excellent.
If you don't have any of these checks, just hitting it with an incredibly strong physical attacker should do the job. When I was playing around with the CCAT team, I do remember LO Rhydon OHKOing with 3 layer spikes and no SR. I mean, I don't know what his EVs were, and you don't get 3 layer Spikes all the time--but getting SR up is pretty reliable and Rhydon's EQ is nowhere near the strongest Physical attack in RU. With that out of the way, though, I've gotta admit that Musharna is better than most people give credit for.
edit: yeah as I suspected the guy definitely wasn't running optimal spread. With 252 / 252 Bold, it takes 56.42 - 66.51% from CB U-turn from Scyther, so it's pretty darn bulky on the physical side. Actually, I take that back--Musharna is pretty good! What spread are you running Molten?
If you don't have any of these checks, just hitting it with an incredibly strong physical attacker should do the job.
edit: yeah as I suspected the guy definitely wasn't running optimal spread. With 252 / 252 Bold, it takes 56.42 - 66.51% from CB U-turn from Scyther, so it's pretty darn bulky on the physical side. Actually, I take that back--Musharna is pretty good! What spread are you running Molten?
True, dark types in general shit all over musharna. Trick scarf also gave me troubles, it kinda reminds me of Curselax, it has Counters, but it can be overwhelming if you dont have those counters. Musharna can also run baton pass easily and is a staple of RU baton pass teams ive seen (as a makeshift reciever no less)
edit: Im running Max hp/max def whta else would you run on a bulky CM set?
Hmm.....Cresselia got banned? Wasn't aware of that because I just entered the new RU metagame 2 days ago lol!
I just tried one eviolite user that while it may seem outclassed by its older bro, it still has merit. Electabuzz!
Electabuzz @ Eviolite
EVs: 252 sp attk, 252 speed, 6 attk
- Ice punch
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Focus blast
Unlike Electivire, who runs a physical set most of the time, Electabuzz runs a slightly mixed set, just for coverage. Ice punch is there mostly to deal with grass mons, and gligar. I find this set quite effective for taking down most mons in battle. It's surprisingly fast too, and I've noticed it KO a lot of things in the past.
I just tried one eviolite user that while it may seem outclassed by its older bro, it still has merit. Electabuzz!
Electabuzz @ Eviolite
EVs: 252 sp attk, 252 speed, 6 attk
- Ice punch
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Focus blast
Unlike Electivire, who runs a physical set most of the time, Electabuzz runs a slightly mixed set, just for coverage. Ice punch is there mostly to deal with grass mons, and gligar. I find this set quite effective for taking down most mons in battle. It's surprisingly fast too, and I've noticed it KO a lot of things in the past.
I was using Lilligant, let me talk about how easy it is to sweep once you put on Sleep powder, you quiver dance up and usually a good chance of a sweep included with the typing it has it can overcome a lot of other pokes, probably one of the thing that kills it is Enteis extreme speed. Seriously though Lilligant is a monster with it's short movepool is the only main problem I see it's only limited to Giga Drain and Hidden Power Rock or Fire for the Quiver Dance set which is the most popular. Lilligant should definitely be nominated, it's a huge threat in the RU metagame.
Cresselia wasn't banned, it just received enough usage in UU to move up a tier. If Cress's usage drops enough she'll fall back into RU.
The only pokemon that are forever banned from RU regardless of usage are Sableye, Alakazam, Yanmega, and Venomoth.
edit: and anything in BL or Ubers obv
CM Duosion > CM Musharna
As I'm sure was mentioned before (might've been in a different thread though), Duosion's immunity to passive damage, greater bulk, better recovery, and greater power makes it better overall
As I'm sure was mentioned before (might've been in a different thread though), Duosion's immunity to passive damage, greater bulk, better recovery, and greater power makes it better overall
I dont think Liligant is too bad. Specially Defensive Flareon shuts it down without Hidden Power Rock, and Specially Defensive Rotom-C Shuts it down without Hidden Power Fire.
The Poke that should be banned simply because of Unpredictability and Raw Power is Honchkrow
The Poke that should be banned simply because of Unpredictability and Raw Power is Honchkrow
Calm mind duosion actually has inferior bulk to musharna for two reasons
1) lack of lefties
2) actual defenses are lower iirc
if you want to run a stall breaker that doesnt need as much support, sure run duosion, but if you want a force that is almost unstoppable with the right support, musharna is the poke for you.
oh and, Duosion has less power due to a lack of stored power which has incredible power after a few CM's
you're better off using hidden power ice for gligar.
Honch is good. No doubt, but unless he gives up some of his power, he just doesn't have the ability to stick around long enough to be that huge of a threat. Scarf sets are (mostly) destroyed by rocks and sub moxie sets (the one I run) can't get a ton of kills in before life orb / subs / BB recoil have done him in. Yes, I've gotten 4 kills off him once and I love what he does on my team, but most skilled players will limit him to one ko, two tops.
*Sub/roost/night slash/BB is a good compromise for longevity to power but it misses Sucker Punch for sure.
IMO honch is frail and that's what keeps him RU. Not that it was my personal opinion to ban zam and sableye, but they had a lot more staying power due to hazard immunity and priority w.o.w and recover, respectively.
*Sub/roost/night slash/BB is a good compromise for longevity to power but it misses Sucker Punch for sure.
IMO honch is frail and that's what keeps him RU. Not that it was my personal opinion to ban zam and sableye, but they had a lot more staying power due to hazard immunity and priority w.o.w and recover, respectively.
On the contrary, I find him to be good in his own unique way. First of all, he has higher base speed than lilligant. Plus he has vital spirit. That means you can come in on the sleep powder and ruin her day. The reason I use ice punch on him is because quiver dance boosts sp defence, so IMO ice punch can hurt even more. But that's just my opinion.
I've never tried ampharos before. What exactly can it do?
I've never tried ampharos before. What exactly can it do?
Yeah Electabuzz is horribly outclassed by Galvantula or Electivire (who seems pretty underrated as a wallbreaker)
Adamant Eviolite Electabuzz with 6 Atk can SOMETIMES 2HKO a Lilligant with only 4 HP investment. Giga Drain will immediately fix that problem for the Lilligant user. I don't see how he beats her.
Also, the fact that if you come in on a Quiver Dance you're insta-screwed doesn't help.
As I said, that's just my opinion. But ya, I guess I just like the fact that electabuzz has higher speed than that of electivire. Plus, the anime has really made me come to dislike electivire for making it seem so OP....
EDIT: also, I use electabuzz as a special attacker. Electivire and buzz have the same special attack. But buzz is faster.
EDIT: also, I use electabuzz as a special attacker. Electivire and buzz have the same special attack. But buzz is faster.
1. Electivire is OP? Pikachu will rape your shit while you sleep in the anime
2. On a related to the discussion note, while HP Ice does hit harder than Ice Punch with the EV's given, there is always the problem that Quiver Dance makes HP Ice do less every time. Even after one Quiver Dance it does a bit less than Ice Punch would, so if you bring it in against a healthy Lilligant, you'll still lose.
now to change the topic, i have seen hail as a viable strategy in ru, Getting into the top 20 with it multiple times, most teams cannot stand up to repeated blizzards, especially from glaceon/subsplit rotom F. Theres also walrein, who with Tspikes support can take down several members of a team before going down.
anyways, hail is definatley viable, especially being the only auto-weather in ru
anyways, hail is definatley viable, especially being the only auto-weather in ru
I've faced you a couple of times and i can confirm that Hail it's damn good in this meta. Most of the top offensive threats fears blizzard spam.
I can second this, i wrote the swellow analysis and playtested it, it does kick major ass. it hurts pretty much every non-steel in the tier.
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