I find Klinklang to be underrated as well. The lack of steel types is a great help for him. He hits deceptively hard and can even break through many common physical walls in RU. +1 LO Klinklang has a good change to 2HKO a healthy Tangrowth after SR (44.1% - 55.2%) and deals 40.4% - 47.9% to Gligar, which are both impressive feats for a physical attacker. I think the main reason Klinklang isn't used as much is because of how quickly his HP gets drained. Most teams can just play resists and switch around and he really needs the power boost from LO or else his offensive potential is severely hurt.
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np: RU Stage 2 - Dancing Queen
- Thread starter Oglemi
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Hitting Sawsbuck, Amoongus, and Ferroseed super-effective is nice (Bouffalant isn't Grass-type) and certainly worthy, but I have to contest you on the last bit there. Rock gives outstanding coverage with Grass, hitting not only Fire but also Bug and Flying for super effective damage. The only type that resists both is Steel, and Durant is taking 91.8% - 108.2% from +1 HP Rock, while Magneton is only hitting you on your boosted Special Defense. You can also OHKO Insomnia Honchkrow when it switches in to counter you. HP Rock hits those Grass-types neutrally, so you can at least take them down if they're weakened, though without HP Fire they will definitely counter you at full health.
Sorry if it seems like I'm correcting you when you were responding to my question to begin with, but I was really more curious about what is common on the ladder than what the benefits of one over the other are. Ideally one would lead to the other but I know that's not always the case. I don't really agree that HP Fire is always better than HP Rock, though.
As far as covering things that resist grass,
HP Fire hits: Steel, Grass, Bug
leaves you resisted by: Fire, Dragon
HP Rock hits: Bug, Flying, Fire
leaves you resisted by: Steel
HP Ice hits: Flying, Grass, Dragon
leaves you resisted by: Fire, Steel
I haven't been using my Sawsbuck team anymore so I haven't really been seeing what HP the Liligant I face have been running. I'm still curious what people are running / seeing on the ladder.
Ok I have seen enough posts about Lilligant and its HP type. People are saying to use Fire or Rock. So why not compare them right here right now?
So let's say we use Hp Fire. The combo Grass/Fire is resited by Fire and Dragon. Dragon isn't common at all, but Fire definitely is! There are at least 5 common Fire type pokemon in the RU tier which I can think of right now. Let's start with the most obvious one: Entei. Entei can revenge you with Espeed if needed, or just laugh at your attacks and OHKO with Flare Blitz. Sure you need to have something asleep, but what is the first thing you send in on Lilligant? A sleepfodder or a Vital Spirit/Insomnia pokemon! Next pokemon: Moltres. Moltres quadrouple resists Grass, resists Fire and has a nice SpDef to back it up. Do I need to say more? Or do you want to hear that Moltres can Toxicstall, kill you with repeated STAB Fire Blasts or Air Slashes? Sure you want to beat Bouffalant but we forgot something there: he isn't a grass type, so Hp fire and Rock will deal the same amount of damage.
I would say use HP Rock. Steel is the only thing resisting it and how odd is it that Steels are really rare in the RU tier. The only few steel types who actually resist your attacks are also limited, because of there being many Steel/Rock or Steel/Ground types. Also I saw someone point out Durant, but it doesn't resist Rock due to the fact that Rock is Super Effective against Bug and it gets destroyed by HP Rock anyway (91.8% - 108.2% from +1 HP Rock so OHKO after SR). This leaves you with Ferroseed, Klingklang and Magneton who resist both Grass and Rock. Klingklang is so uncommon it isn't even funny, Magneton only can Thunder-Wave you to stop you and how can you have troubles with Ferroseed? It can't Leech Seed you and T-wave seems to be uncommon as well (even though it is a great move). So if we delete those as well from our list, what do we have left? As good as nothing.
So again, in my opinion, Hp Rock is the better option . The hits most of the common RU pokemon for at least neutral damage. SapSippers are annoying though, but you would only change the Hidden Power type to Fire for Sawsbuck, who is pretty frail anyway, as Bouffalant is just plain Normal type. Rock, on the other hand, gets better coverage all around because of only Ferroseed being the common pokemon to tank the hits.
(Also, I could be horribly mistaken, but don't be rough with trying to correct that. I'm just trying to make my point here, so please just tell me what I'm doing wrong instead of making insults.)
(Lol disclaimer and lol holy crap 487 words :D )
Edit: CRAP i forgot grass types >_<
Double Edit: oh nvm grass does not resist Rock.
So let's say we use Hp Fire. The combo Grass/Fire is resited by Fire and Dragon. Dragon isn't common at all, but Fire definitely is! There are at least 5 common Fire type pokemon in the RU tier which I can think of right now. Let's start with the most obvious one: Entei. Entei can revenge you with Espeed if needed, or just laugh at your attacks and OHKO with Flare Blitz. Sure you need to have something asleep, but what is the first thing you send in on Lilligant? A sleepfodder or a Vital Spirit/Insomnia pokemon! Next pokemon: Moltres. Moltres quadrouple resists Grass, resists Fire and has a nice SpDef to back it up. Do I need to say more? Or do you want to hear that Moltres can Toxicstall, kill you with repeated STAB Fire Blasts or Air Slashes? Sure you want to beat Bouffalant but we forgot something there: he isn't a grass type, so Hp fire and Rock will deal the same amount of damage.
I would say use HP Rock. Steel is the only thing resisting it and how odd is it that Steels are really rare in the RU tier. The only few steel types who actually resist your attacks are also limited, because of there being many Steel/Rock or Steel/Ground types. Also I saw someone point out Durant, but it doesn't resist Rock due to the fact that Rock is Super Effective against Bug and it gets destroyed by HP Rock anyway (91.8% - 108.2% from +1 HP Rock so OHKO after SR). This leaves you with Ferroseed, Klingklang and Magneton who resist both Grass and Rock. Klingklang is so uncommon it isn't even funny, Magneton only can Thunder-Wave you to stop you and how can you have troubles with Ferroseed? It can't Leech Seed you and T-wave seems to be uncommon as well (even though it is a great move). So if we delete those as well from our list, what do we have left? As good as nothing.
So again, in my opinion, Hp Rock is the better option . The hits most of the common RU pokemon for at least neutral damage. SapSippers are annoying though, but you would only change the Hidden Power type to Fire for Sawsbuck, who is pretty frail anyway, as Bouffalant is just plain Normal type. Rock, on the other hand, gets better coverage all around because of only Ferroseed being the common pokemon to tank the hits.
(Also, I could be horribly mistaken, but don't be rough with trying to correct that. I'm just trying to make my point here, so please just tell me what I'm doing wrong instead of making insults.)
(Lol disclaimer and lol holy crap 487 words :D )
Edit: CRAP i forgot grass types >_<
Double Edit: oh nvm grass does not resist Rock.
I thought that Klinklang is unpopular because of its nonexistant movepool. Its a physical attacker that has to use Hidden Power for coverage, off base 70 Special Attack no less.
If it had Earthquake it might be useable, but Fire-types are both common and problematic for Klinklang. What does it do that other physical sweepers can't?
If it had Earthquake it might be useable, but Fire-types are both common and problematic for Klinklang. What does it do that other physical sweepers can't?
There are a few of things klinklang can do that other sweepers cant
- It can easily beat honchkrow, resisting BB and sucker punch while gear grind breaks the sub and hits honch at the same time.
- With 124 evs, Klinklang can outspeed scarf typhlosion, making it nearly impossible to revenge.
- it is surprisingly bulky on the physical side if you invest the remaining evs into hp, and can take priority.
- It can actually hit fire types with return, KOing the aformentioned typhlosion after a boost and stealth rock.
- it is the only Steel type DD'er (shift gear is basically DD with an extra speed boost)
- it is one of three steel type sweepers in the tier along with durant and aggron
- Automotize aggron is somewhat rare compared to its other sets.
- Durant has coverage problems as well and it does fine, so does Honchkrow who i mentioned before, and swellow. does that stop them from being threats?
It doesnt learn a Physical fire type move, if it did it would probably be like ou or something, Ferroseed is much rarer than it was before and ferroseed/Steelix's existence didnt stop other pokes such as swellow and honchkrow from being threats. I will say that ferroseed does wall it tho. thats why i run things such as fire blast slowking (flamethrower to weakth).
Yup. You only need 1 check for it. You can even set-up with lilligant if you want (especially with Lum). Ferro isn't a really big deal, as it is set-up fodder to so many pokemon. Really looking forward to using Klingklang. :)
Klingklang actually seems pretty good. Steel+Normal is surprisingly good coverage, only resisted by steels and stuff like frillish/lampent
Now look what you've done Molk. Everyone is using Klinklang!
Gears could run HP Fire for Feroseed. Another move I think would work really well is Substitute. I'm not sure what everyone commonly runs in the fourth slot, but Sub, Gear Change, Gear Grind and Return might be able to get past checks. I haven't used Klinklang yet, and I'm not sure what checks it (that runs status) but it could get in an extra boost fairly easily.
Gears could run HP Fire for Feroseed. Another move I think would work really well is Substitute. I'm not sure what everyone commonly runs in the fourth slot, but Sub, Gear Change, Gear Grind and Return might be able to get past checks. I haven't used Klinklang yet, and I'm not sure what checks it (that runs status) but it could get in an extra boost fairly easily.
Unless I'm intensely paranoid about Magneton, I almost always run Sub of Klinklang, it simply allows him to set up on so many different otherwise-overbearing foes. Similar to the idea of Sub on DD Krawdaunt, sure Ferroseed resists his stabs, but what can he do to stop you from setting up +6 behind a sub?
You can pair a Dugtrio of your own with Klingklang to give it more of the proper support it needs too be successful, since catching and eliminating Fire-type Pokemon is pretty easily handled by Dugtrio, along with Steel-types like Aggron that could also possibly check klinklang
Dugtrio is actually pretty underrated right now. Some of the more potent offensive mons in the tier, namely things like Swellow, Durant and Moxie Honchkrow have trouble breaking things like Aggron and Magneton. When paired with Dugtrio, this obviously isn't the case, as they suddenly have more room to punch holes through the opposing team. I'd say giving duggy more use is something to look at.
I wouldn't think that Aggron gives Klinklang trouble? It takes neutral damage from Gear Grind, which breaks Sturdy, and usually runs an offensive set. Wouldn't Steelix be a better choice?
most aggron don't (or at least shouldn't) run max speed. it's safe to assume they're running some bulk as max speed aggron doesn't outspeed much important stuff... and it's generally on a person's team for it's resistances anyway.
and @ november blue, aggron uses rock head, not sturdy.
and @ november blue, aggron uses rock head, not sturdy.
Yeah, I forgot about Rock Head Smash.
I'm surprised that scolipede isn't used as much as I thought it would be. it has great stats, a decent movepool, and can either be a sweeper or a hazard stacker. The big guy has gotten me out of some pretty rough situations, and I have to admit, he definitely can hold his own in higher tiers.
But one question I'm having is this: what are some good eviolite users in RU? Personally I want to see if lickitung or electabuzz are good at all. They are 2 of my favs and their evos aren't really in my fav books at all.
Also, what would be a good set for altaria in this metagame? I've seen her around RU lately, and she's caught my interest.
But one question I'm having is this: what are some good eviolite users in RU? Personally I want to see if lickitung or electabuzz are good at all. They are 2 of my favs and their evos aren't really in my fav books at all.
Also, what would be a good set for altaria in this metagame? I've seen her around RU lately, and she's caught my interest.
Hmm, you could try Machoke. It's pretty bulky with Eviolite, and you can run a ResTalk DynaPunch set, which is really effective (I've used it in OU.)
Machoke @ Eviolite
Adamant
No Guard
252 Atk / rest in bulk, usually just 252 HP
Dynamicpunch
Payback
Rest
Sleep Talk
Base 100 Attack still hurts, and Sleep Talk mitigates DynaPunch's low PP.
Other Evioliters you could try include Zweilous, Rhyhorn, Roselia, Tangela...
As for Altaria, I've always had a penchant for that DD / Cotton Guard / Roost / Dragon Claw set.
Machoke @ Eviolite
Adamant
No Guard
252 Atk / rest in bulk, usually just 252 HP
Dynamicpunch
Payback
Rest
Sleep Talk
Base 100 Attack still hurts, and Sleep Talk mitigates DynaPunch's low PP.
Other Evioliters you could try include Zweilous, Rhyhorn, Roselia, Tangela...
As for Altaria, I've always had a penchant for that DD / Cotton Guard / Roost / Dragon Claw set.
a tad better than rhyhorn :P
I've seen one person using Lickitung and while it does wall non-fighting type moves well it become huge set-up fodder for anything with a Sub.
Damn, i just found a weapon that imo is REALLY strong
Musharna
Musharna gets calm mind, stored power, and the restalk combo, with support to take on dark types. it basically is an auto win if you can set up. which is easy cause
1) it is bulky as fuck
2) it has recovery
if you roar it out you will have to deal with it as the last pokemon. it is REALLY good
(possibly even broken)
Musharna
Musharna gets calm mind, stored power, and the restalk combo, with support to take on dark types. it basically is an auto win if you can set up. which is easy cause
1) it is bulky as fuck
2) it has recovery
if you roar it out you will have to deal with it as the last pokemon. it is REALLY good
(possibly even broken)
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