Metagame NP: SM RU Stage 0 (Beta): Green Light (Talonflame Banned)

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SD Guts Heracross does not run Megahorn. It runs Close Combat, Knock Off, and Facade. Megahorn is redundant with Knock Off a great deal of the time. Some people choose to run Megahorn over Swords Dance, but the SD variant is by far the most common set. This Sableye is designed to counter that.
So Sableye is allowed to run a unique set(posted above) but Heracross isn't?
I don't get your point. If this Sableye is common/turns out to be common why shouldn't I run Megahorn over Facade/CC instead of SD.

I mean Megahorn isn't even a bad move, it has the same basepower as Close Combat, only the typing coverage is worse than CC. If there is a major threat on stall Bug/Normal/Dark can't handle please share it.
 
So Sableye is allowed to run a unique set(posted above) but Heracross isn't?
I don't get your point. If this Sableye is common/turns out to be common why shouldn't I run Megahorn over Facade/CC instead of SD.

I mean Megahorn isn't even a bad move, it has the same basepower as Close Combat, only the typing coverage is worse than CC. If there is a major threat on stall Bug/Normal/Dark can't handle please share it.
That's literally not the point. This Sableye set isn't common and only functions on stall, so using Megahorn over Close Combat and leaving yourself unable to OHKO Pokemon like Registeel is just a dumb idea. The concept of the set is to beat the most common Heracross set right now; idk what you're really arguing here.
 
So Sableye is allowed to run a unique set(posted above) but Heracross isn't?
I don't get your point. If this Sableye is common/turns out to be common why shouldn't I run Megahorn over Facade/CC instead of SD.

I mean Megahorn isn't even a bad move, it has the same basepower as Close Combat, only the typing coverage is worse than CC. If there is a major threat on stall Bug/Normal/Dark can't handle please share it.
How are you supposed to lure a lure? You account for the most likely scenario
 

G-Luke

Sugar, Spice and One for All
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That's literally not the point. This Sableye set isn't common and only functions on stall, so using Megahorn over Close Combat and leaving yourself unable to OHKO Pokemon like Registeel is just a dumb idea. The concept of the set is to beat the most common Heracross set right now; idk what you're really arguing here.
I could easily run Dual STAB + Façade (which is what should be run, Ghosts are not THAT popular) and hit almost everything that the other sets hit (harder at that). So saying that set counters SD Heracross is actually far from true.
 

Punchshroom

Paralysis is slightly less of a devil
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
I could easily run Dual STAB + Façade (which is what should be run, Ghosts are not THAT popular) and hit almost everything that the other sets hit (harder at that). So saying that set counters SD Heracross is actually far from true.
Problem with that is Doublade is super popular (and not something I'd like my SD wallbreaker to forfeit momentum to), and I wouldn't appreciate being walled out by the likes of Jellicent and Cofagrigus, which stall does occasionally employ. If I'm considering Megahorn on Guts Heracross, I'd sooner replace SD for it and just banking on the fact that nothing stall has can switch into the right move anyway.
 
So Sableye is allowed to run a unique set(posted above) but Heracross isn't?
I could easily run Dual STAB + Façade (which is what should be run, Ghosts are not THAT popular) and hit almost everything that the other sets hit (harder at that). So saying that set counters SD Heracross is actually far from true.
Lol this is honestly ridiculous. The point of the set is to beat the most common Heracross variant, a set which greatly threatens stall teams. I could easily play this game too.

Let's say you have an Assault Vest Escavalier with Wish Support. Now, this definitely counters CM Reuniclus right?
0 SpA Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 51-60 (14.8 - 17.4%) -- possible 6HKO
BUT OH WAIT GUYS LEMME JUST RUN THIS SUBPAR SET TO PROVE YOU WRONG
56 Atk Reuniclus Inferno Overdrive (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 296-352 (86.2 - 102.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
omg CM / Recover / Psyshock / Fire Punch Reuniclus with enough Speed to outrun Escavalier beats this set!!! It's not a counter guys!!! Who cares if I'm walled by Doublade and can't really touch Dark-types...dgaf bros I killed Escavalier!!!

To take this analogy further, imagine if people started running 252 Speed Escavalier just to counter this niche set and maybe possibly outspeed some random other Pokemon. You would literally be losing bulk and would be worse against a great deal of the metagame, just for the sole purpose of beating this set.

This is obviously a more extreme example, but to say you would rather run a set of Close Combat / Megahorn / Facade / SD and be walled by DOUBLADE of all things (not to mention, completely screwed against Acrobatics Gligar) instead of this Sableye is actually ludicrous.
 
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I am not sure if my point didn't get across, but let me try this again.
RU seems to be fixated on one set of Heracross, CC/Facade/Knock Off and SD. It threatens Stall.

It supposedly destroys stall teams in RU and you wanted to make a Sableye set against it to lure it out.

Now here is the thing:

252 Atk Heracross Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def No Item Sableye: 60-71 (19.7 - 23.3%)
252 Atk Choice Band Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 247-292 (81.2 - 96%)
>(100.9%-overkill)

(Band is Guts Boost)

this combination of moves allows to dispatch of the Sableye easily. You usually use Knock Off first with Heracross anyways (how can you setup with SD anyways when most Stall runs around with Espeon, Aero etc.? Just clicking Knock Off does a lot for this a team).

You have the mindset that Megahorn is completly trash on Heracross. I ask: why?

Also a switch-in from Sableye into Heracross' Knock Off means that you give out your information anyways. No item? Z-Move guaranteed

Just a side information, as far as I tried out on ladder, a conclusion of mine is that:
All-Out Guts > SD Guts.
I seriously wonder what specific target on Stall needs SD boost to be killed, which can threaten Heracross easily. Most of the time you weaken the Stall team with Knock Off and SD doesn't happen with Espeon, Aero around.
 
I am not sure if my point didn't get across, but let me try this again.
RU seems to be fixated on one set of Heracross, CC/Facade/Knock Off and SD. It threatens Stall.

It supposedly destroys stall teams in RU and you wanted to make a Sableye set against it to lure it out.

Now here is the thing:

252 Atk Heracross Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def No Item Sableye: 60-71 (19.7 - 23.3%)
252 Atk Choice Band Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 247-292 (81.2 - 96%)
>(100.9%-overkill)

(Band is Guts Boost)

this combination of moves allows to dispatch of the Sableye easily. You usually use Knock Off first with Heracross anyways (how can you setup with SD anyways when most Stall runs around with Espeon, Aero etc.? Just clicking Knock Off does a lot for this a team).

You have the mindset that Megahorn is completly trash on Heracross. I ask: why?

Also a switch-in from Sableye into Heracross' Knock Off means that you give out your information anyways. No item? Z-Move guaranteed

Just a side information, as far as I tried out on ladder, a conclusion of mine is that:
All-Out Guts > SD Guts.
I seriously wonder what specific target on Stall needs SD boost to be killed, which can threaten Heracross easily. Most of the time you weaken the Stall team with Knock Off and SD doesn't happen with Espeon, Aero around.
No one ever said that All-Out Guts was a bad set. That is a fine option that people could use. It is just that a great deal more people use SD now, making the Sableye set viable. All I said was, putting Megahorn over any of the moves besides SD is a very dumb idea that should not explored at all, and using that as justification for saying this set is bad is retarded. Also, no one ever uses Aerodactyl on stall...it's literally an awful Pokemon so I have no idea where you got this information from .-.
 
I am not sure if my point didn't get across, but let me try this again.
RU seems to be fixated on one set of Heracross, CC/Facade/Knock Off and SD. It threatens Stall.

It supposedly destroys stall teams in RU and you wanted to make a Sableye set against it to lure it out.

Now here is the thing:

252 Atk Heracross Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def No Item Sableye: 60-71 (19.7 - 23.3%)
252 Atk Choice Band Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 247-292 (81.2 - 96%)
>(100.9%-overkill)

(Band is Guts Boost)

this combination of moves allows to dispatch of the Sableye easily. You usually use Knock Off first with Heracross anyways (how can you setup with SD anyways when most Stall runs around with Espeon, Aero etc.? Just clicking Knock Off does a lot for this a team).

You have the mindset that Megahorn is completly trash on Heracross. I ask: why?

Also a switch-in from Sableye into Heracross' Knock Off means that you give out your information anyways. No item? Z-Move guaranteed

Just a side information, as far as I tried out on ladder, a conclusion of mine is that:
All-Out Guts > SD Guts.
I seriously wonder what specific target on Stall needs SD boost to be killed, which can threaten Heracross easily. Most of the time you weaken the Stall team with Knock Off and SD doesn't happen with Espeon, Aero around.
i agree that guts 4 atk hera is the best set, however many people just run the knock/facade/cc set with sd, which is why this sableye set works. i recently topped ladder with a stall team made around this sableye pretty easily as non sd guts hera isnt very common. non sd also fails to ohko some defensive mons on stall which can otherwise revenge kill, such as golbat or a bulkier fairy type. the sableye set does seem kinda strange but it does deal with a few key stallbreakers and has worked for me on ladder so thats something i guess :p

edit: also dropping one of its coverage moves for megahorn means it can be walled by another mon on a stall team, so the sableye set basically ensures that one hera set cant completely clean your team after you scout its moveset and have proper team synergy.
 

Many

Ehehehehh
is a Tiering Contributor
I wanted to take some time to talk about a pokemon who is quickly becoming one of the premier offensive threats in the RU metagame: Zoroark. I have no love for this pokemon because it looks like it was designed by an edgy 12-year old on Deviantart, but even I have to acknowledge that it's really good at the moment. Zoro is one of the fastest Knock Off users in the tier, which alone gives it a niche, and it is fairly powerful as well. It also is able to provide invaluable utility with Pursuit and strong priority, and is extremely versatile due to its ability to run physical/special/mixed sets and Illusion.

I won't talk too much about Illusion because we know how that works, and needless to say it can give Zoroark free kills and setup opportunities. I'm also not the best player so usually when I tried to trick the opponent with illusion it fell flat on my face instead..

Anyway, here are two of the Zoroark sets I've been using.

Zoroark @ Life Orb
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Pursuit/Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Low Kick/Return

Standard Zoroark. You'll notice right away that it doesn't have the best coverage. But it fares fine, because Dark-resists other than Fairies are rare and you can get kills just by bluffing. Pursuit Zoroark is particularly good right now because of Zoro's fantastic speed tier for using the move, and it can get rid of annoying pokemon like Bronzor/Reuniclus/Slowking without too much trouble. SD is great with Sucker Punch for obvious reasons.

Zoroark @ Life Orb
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Night Daze
- Flamethrower
- Sludge Bomb
- Nasty Plot

Special Zoroark. You can run Specs over Life Orb, and run Sucker Punch in the last slot instead of Nasty Plot if that suits you. The great thing about special Zoroark is that it completely lures the physical sets counters. Florges? Good luck switching into Sludge Bomb. Max defense Donphan or Rhyperior? Smacked by Night Daze. Overall just a really cool set that most teams are completely unprepared for.

~- ~- ~-

I also wanted to bring attention to Roserade, a pokemon I feel definitely isn't being used to its full potential. Yeah there are a lot of Tspikes + Sleep Powder Rose running around, and SpD sets too, and that's fine. But where Roserade gets really impressive is when you go all out offensive with it. Slap a Life Orb on it and use Technician, you become almost impossible to wall. It's like Venusaur in ORAS RU, except you have 125 SpA instead of 100, and Flamethrower (Technician) instead of HP fire. Between Leaf Storm, Sludge Bomb, and HP Fire, the only relevant pokemon that switch in are Cresselia and Porygon2, and those can be sleep powdered. It also makes for a surprisingly solid Scarf user with its dual STAB combination, power, and usable speed tier.
 
Here`s some sets that I`ve had some success with on the ladder.

Flygon @ Earth Plate
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch/Aerial Ace/Iron Tail
- Outrage
- Dragon Dance

Basically, if you already have a Z user on your team and want to use DD Flygon, I think this is a decent alternative. I`m using Earth plate over something like LO because I don`t want to take the recoil and weaken myself. I like Fire punch as a coverage move the most because it deals with things like Bronzong, Escavalier and Durant while also somewhat dealing with Heracross and Chestnaught. Aerial ace is basically just for the KO on Chestnaught and Heracross. Iron Tail is for Florges, Ribombee and Gardevoir. Overall, In my experience this set functions quite nicely as a replacement for Z Move DD Flygon.


Virizion @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]/Hidden Power [Fire]
- Calm Mind

This is basically the CM Virizion set from last gen but with the fighting Z move. It`s still somewhat effective as no one prepares for it making some teams quite weak to it. The Z move allows Virizion to get kills it could not get normally. It also makes up for the annoying accuracy of Focus Blast. This fits well on some balance teams that would like to have a water and dark resist other than Chestnaught. HP ice is for Dragon and Grass types while HP fire is for Doublade and Grass types.


Dhelmise @ Choice Band
Ability: Steelworker
EVs: 52 HP / 252 Atk / 204 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Claw
- Power Whip
- Earthquake
- Anchor Shot

In my experience, CB Dhelmise is a pretty decent mon right now. Because it`s not really prepared for, Dhelmise can have a positive matchup vs some teams. It`s got some niced coverage to hit pokemon like Florges, Bronzong and Nidoqueen. The speed is for no speed Vaporeon and Umbreon. Dhelmise also has a decent defensive typing that allows it to switch in to some pokemon as a nice bonus. It can also be a suprise to your opponent since most Dhelmise I see are AV Rapid Spin.


Espeon @ Psychium Z
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Fire]/Dazzling Gleam
- Shadow Ball/Dazzling Gleam
- Calm mind

This is an interesting set I used in a HO team with moderate success. This set can actually sweep teams nicely after some threats have been taken care of. CM does have some competition with some things like Reuniclus but Espen has a lot of advantages, most notably it`s speed. While Espeon is frail, the extra bulk from CM allows Espeon to live things like a Swellow Boomburst. HP Fire is for Escavalier and Durant, Shadow ball is for Bulky Psychic types and Dazzling Gleam is for Dark types like Sableye and Zoroark. The Psychic Z move is a nice nuke that allows Espeon to get some suprise kills against some pokemon.
 
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Espeon @ Psychium Z
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Fire]/Dazzling Gleam
- Shadow Ball/Dazzling Gleam
- Calm mind

This is an interesting set I used in a HO team with moderate success. This set can actually sweep teams nicely after some threats have been taken care of. CM does have some competition with some things like Reuniclus but Espen has a lot of advantages, most notably it`s speed. While Espeon is frail, the extra bulk from CM allows Espeon to live things like a Swellow Boomburst. HP Fire is for Escavalier and Durant, Shadow ball is for Bulky Psychic types and Dazzling Gleam is for Dark types like Sableye and Zoroark. The Psychic Z move is a nice nuke that allows Espeon to get some suprise kills against some pokemon.
Have you considered psyshock on the espy set so you can hit on the physical side, while being able to check the Z box and nuke on the special side?


Also, how does stall beat Shaymin? Specifically:

Shaymin @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Seed Flare
- Psychic
- Earth Power
- Synthesis


Just curious. I don't know stall very well and I wonder if it would be a good alternative wallbreaker to guts hera.
 

Punchshroom

Paralysis is slightly less of a devil
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Shaymin @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Seed Flare
- Psychic
- Earth Power
- Synthesis
I don't think u need Psychic and Earth Power on the same set, as the threats they hit are for the most part largely redundant. It's better to either substitute either coverage for Hidden Power Fire (letting u hit Steels like Escavalier and Bronzong), or even just drop both coverage moves and go Leech Seed + HP Fire, the former allowing you to chip away at checks without taking LO recoil and more importantly not burn through Seed Flare PP.
 
I don't think u need Psychic and Earth Power on the same set, as the threats they hit are for the most part largely redundant. It's better to either substitute either coverage for Hidden Power Fire (letting u hit Steels like Escavalier and Bronzong), or even just drop both coverage moves and go Leech Seed + HP Fire, the former allowing you to chip away at checks without taking LO recoil and more importantly not burn through Seed Flare PP.
Hmm I like the prospect of saving PP while still forcing switches with seeds. Without psychic I think you're missing out on Golbat mostly. It would depend largely on the team you place it I'm I suppose.

What is the absolute most threatening set geared for stall?
 
Shaymin can run a multitude of sets, but currently the most threatning 3 attacks wallbreaker set is imo:
Shaymin @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Synthesis
- Seed Flare
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Fire]

The combination of Seed Flare, Psychic and HP Fire hits the largest part of the tier the hardest.
  • HP Fire hits most common switchins super effectively like Doublade, Bronzong Escavalier (yes Registeel aswell but I'll come back to that mon)
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 166-198 (51.7 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Hidden Power Fire vs. -2 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 364-432 (106.1 - 125.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Hidden Power Fire vs. -2 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 185-218 (54.7 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

  • Psychic hits most other Pokemon, that resist either the grass stab or HP Fire, harder typewise or neutrally compared to Dazzling Gleam
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heracross: 224-265 (74.4 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Psychic vs. -2 188 HP / 0 SpD Dragalge: 356-421 (111.9 - 132.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kommo-o: 205-242 (70.4 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Basically what I'm trying to say is that the optimal coverage is the above mentioned set. Since all Earth Power hits extra that the combo of Psychic and HP Fire doesnt is Registeel.
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Registeel: 117-140 (32.1 - 38.4%) -- 3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Registeel: 78-94 (21.4 - 25.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
But since Registeel has Clear Body it will never get the spdef drop from Seed Flare, making sure that Registeel will win the 1V1 with Shaymin due to the spam of Toxic+Protect+ Seismic Toss.

Ofcourse if a team prefers dazzling gleam if its weak to dragon spam or something else demanding another coverage move one could differ from the mentioned set.

Credits also go to Punchshroom, Arikado and someone else who was involved who I forgot...sorry we figured this out recently in while talking in the RU chat

Also, how does stall beat Shaymin? Specifically:

Just curious. I don't know stall very well and I wonder if it would be a good alternative wallbreaker to guts hera.
So to answer your question I'd say Registeel + Wish-support
 

HypnoEmpire

Yokatta...
I've been liking this meta a lot and have had some success with a few Pokémon I'd like to share here.

Klinklang 3d sprite.gif


Klinklang @ Steelium Z
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Gear Grind
- Wild Charge
- Magnet Rise

Punchshroom gave me the idea of using Magnet Rise on this set. Electrium Z would be so much better, but since the issue with evasion boosting Z-moves hasn't been resolved yet, this is the next best thing. It can set up on Snorlax, Bronzong, Cloyster, Comfey, Donphan, Diancie, Gigalith, Florges, Gligar, Nidoqueen, Swellow, choiced Tyrantrum, Cresselia, choiced Gardevoir, and Rhyperior. At +2, it can even set up on stuff like Flygon, Shaymin, Aerodactyl, and Mega Glalie. You would be surprised at how easily you can set up with this thing in a match. Steelium Z can OHKO Chesnaught at +2 as well as a few other things but I just use it because it makes cleaning up with this thing a lot easier. I'd imagine Life Orb and Leftovers are also usable options. If Electrium Z were usable, you would be able to OHKO nearly every bulky water in the tier as well as Escav after rocks at +1 so I'll be looking forward to when that's possible. You could run Substitute over Magnet Rise and use Electrium-Z I suppose, but the list of things you can set up on suddenly gets a lot smaller.

Stuff like Doublade and Registeel obviously need to be severely weakened before attempting to set up so I've been using Rocky Helmet Chesnaught as a partner. Rocky Helmet chips down on Doublade and Spikes really weaken a lot of Klinklang's checks. Without Electrium Z, breaking bulky Waters can be a pain, so a lure like Life Orb Explosion Cloyster can work wonders in this case. The only bulky Water that can really take on Life Orb Cloyster is Pyukumuku, but it's used almost exclusively on stall and I've been seeing it used on stall a lot less recently. Registeel is 2HKOed by Life Orb Cloyster at +2 btw, thought it would be fun to note that.

Chesnaught 3d sprite.gif


Chesnaught @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 Spe
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Drain Punch
- Synthesis
- Taunt

This is the Chesnaught set I typically like to run. I don't know if people have started using Taunt on this thing yet (I definitely haven't seen it), but if Chesnaught is your only Fighting-type then you should definitely consider using it. Standard Chesnaught sets are fodder to Curse Snorlax, which is a huge threat right now, but Taunt alleviates this issue. It can also Taunt Registeel, Bronzong, Donphan, Doublade, Gigalith, Umbreon, Mantine (hopefully no Air Slash), 12 Speed Gligar, and Reuniclus and Florges in a pinch. You can definitely run a bit more Speed if you want to creep slightly faster Gligar. If you want to stay on top of the hazard game then this set is for you.

There are some more sets I want to share but I'm tired right now, will hopefully get to it tomorrow.
 
Why not slash Black Glasses in the first set? Zoroark not taking recoil means that it can bluff a choice set and avoid taking recoil that could spoil his identity to the opponent, although I don't know if Life Orb nets some crucial OHKO or 2HKO and therefore can't be replaced.
I'm just asking

I wanted to take some time to talk about a pokemon who is quickly becoming one of the premier offensive threats in the RU metagame: Zoroark. I have no love for this pokemon because it looks like it was designed by an edgy 12-year old on Deviantart, but even I have to acknowledge that it's really good at the moment. Zoro is one of the fastest Knock Off users in the tier, which alone gives it a niche, and it is fairly powerful as well. It also is able to provide invaluable utility with Pursuit and strong priority, and is extremely versatile due to its ability to run physical/special/mixed sets and Illusion.

I won't talk too much about Illusion because we know how that works, and needless to say it can give Zoroark free kills and setup opportunities. I'm also not the best player so usually when I tried to trick the opponent with illusion it fell flat on my face instead..

Anyway, here are two of the Zoroark sets I've been using.

Zoroark @ Life Orb
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Pursuit/Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Low Kick/Return

Standard Zoroark. You'll notice right away that it doesn't have the best coverage. But it fares fine, because Dark-resists other than Fairies are rare and you can get kills just by bluffing. Pursuit Zoroark is particularly good right now because of Zoro's fantastic speed tier for using the move, and it can get rid of annoying pokemon like Bronzor/Reuniclus/Slowking without too much trouble. SD is great with Sucker Punch for obvious reasons.

Zoroark @ Life Orb
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Night Daze
- Flamethrower
- Sludge Bomb
- Nasty Plot

Special Zoroark. You can run Specs over Life Orb, and run Sucker Punch in the last slot instead of Nasty Plot if that suits you. The great thing about special Zoroark is that it completely lures the physical sets counters. Florges? Good luck switching into Sludge Bomb. Max defense Donphan or Rhyperior? Smacked by Night Daze. Overall just a really cool set that most teams are completely unprepared for.

~- ~- ~-

I also wanted to bring attention to Roserade, a pokemon I feel definitely isn't being used to its full potential. Yeah there are a lot of Tspikes + Sleep Powder Rose running around, and SpD sets too, and that's fine. But where Roserade gets really impressive is when you go all out offensive with it. Slap a Life Orb on it and use Technician, you become almost impossible to wall. It's like Venusaur in ORAS RU, except you have 125 SpA instead of 100, and Flamethrower (Technician) instead of HP fire. Between Leaf Storm, Sludge Bomb, and HP Fire, the only relevant pokemon that switch in are Cresselia and Porygon2, and those can be sleep powdered. It also makes for a surprisingly solid Scarf user with its dual STAB combination, power, and usable speed tier.
 
It's certainly not a complete counter, but cofagrigus can generally eat a knock off from heracross - even when swords danced - and then spread mummy to heracross, getting rid of the guts boost and then halving that attack, severly limiting heracross.
 


Something I've been using on ladder lately is Ghostium Z Mismagius. This set is honestly so good, Mismagius has access to Nasty Plot allowing it to set up and break through a bunch of bulky Pokemon it would otherwise struggle with. It does its fair share against stall with access to Taunt and the set also thrives against slower teams as Ghost is one of the best offensive typings due to how easy it is to spam. A partner that I believe works well is Swords Dance Zoroark. Their typings go well together for Zoroark to disguise itself as Mismagius. This can allow you to get free turns to set up Swords Dance, or net you a kill you otherwise wouldn't have been able to get because of your opponent making a different play. Zoroark also has access to Nasty Plot which makes the two harder to differentiate before Illusion is broken or you make the obvious move that reveals what Pokemon you are.

Mismagius @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Taunt
- Dazzling Gleam / Mystical Fire

Zoroark @ Life Orb
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Low Kick

 
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Something I've been using on ladder lately is Ghostium Z Mismagius. This set is honestly so good, Mismagius has access to Nasty Plot allowing it to set up and break through a bunch of bulky Pokemon it would otherwise struggle with. It does its fair share against stall with access to Taunt and the set also thrives against slower teams as Ghost is one of the best offensive typings due to how easy it is to spam. A partner that I believe works well is Swords Dance Zoroark. Their typings go well together for Zoroark to disguise itself as Mismagius. This can allow you to get free turns to set up Swords Dance, or net you a kill you otherwise wouldn't have been able to get because of your opponent making a different play. Zoroark also has access to Nasty Plot which makes the two harder to differentiate before Illusion is broken or you make the obvious move that reveals what Pokemon you are.

Mismagius @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Taunt
- Mystical Fire

Zoroark @ Life Orb
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Low Kick
Why Mystical Fire on Mismagius? Other than lowering opponents Special Attack, it seems another coverage move (dazzling gleam) would hit dark types better that resist ghost STAB.

Even other moves like Destiny Bond, Pain Split or WoW could be utilized here. Just curious.
 
Why Mystical Fire on Mismagius? Other than lowering opponents Special Attack, it seems another coverage move (dazzling gleam) would hit dark types better that resist ghost STAB.

Even other moves like Destiny Bond, Pain Split or WoW could be utilized here. Just curious.
Those are options, I just happen to use Mystical Fire since I don't like being forced out by Escavalier since on the team I used it lack a solid switch-in to it consistently.
 
If you're using Mismagius and Zoroark and continuing to build around Zoro, i highly recommend Toxicroak. You can run SD or NP, but i recommend NP because it's much more likely to trick the opponent into thinking you're the zoroark, meaning they'll likely go for a bug or fighting move, both of which toxicroak resists. SD is undoubtedly the better set without zoroark, but NP isn't that much worse. If you trick the opponent into thinking toxicroak is a zoroark, then they also likely won't go for psychic moves, toxicroak's worst weakness. If you are using zoroark disguised as toxicroak, SD zoroark will make the opponent less wary that it is a zoroark. So i recommend using NP Toxicroak and SD Zoro together.
 

termi

formerly Robert Alfons
is a Tiering Contributor
I second Mismagius being good right now. Missy wasn't too hot last gen I felt because of her lack of power, which is luckily solved thanks to the introduction of z-moves. Taunt + NP makes her a powerful breaker that can exploit passive mons like Registeel by Taunting and setting up in their face, and thanks to Never-Ending Nightmare and her speed tier she can also pose an immediate threat vs more offensive teams. Dazzling Gleam definitely is the superior coverage option btw, Non-AV Escavalier can be overwhelmed by a +2 Never-Ending Nightmare and the ability to do things vs Dark types in general is much more appreciated than beating Escavalier slightly more reliably.

Onto something else:


Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 Spe
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Leech Seed
- Drain Punch/Wood Hammer

This set has been around for a while, but I feel like it's underrated/underused. This set trades some of Chesnaught's stally potential for the ability to easily exploit passive teams by Taunting, preventing them from statusing or setting up on Chesnaught and more importantly, blocking Gligar and Mantine from defogging (it runs enough speed for Gligar). Even without a lot of investment, Chesnaught is insanely bulky on the physical side and can switch in on a plethora of physical attackers that don't have a means of hitting it super effectively, but the best thing about it is its ability to almost guarantee Spikes are kept up unless your opponent runs Air Slash Mantine or Rapid Spin Dhelmise). I recommend using this set on offensively inclined hazard stacking teams that nonetheless prefer a bulky setter over something like Froslass or Spikes Roserade, since this thing gives you a pretty good mix of a check to a slew of offensive threats and a Spiker that doesn't sacrifice too much momentum.

E: oh somebody posted on this set a few posts before mine lol... anyway use it ppl it's good.
 
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Since we're set sharing, a set I've used with good results lately:


Qwilfish @ Black Sludge
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 220 Def / 40 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Toxic Spikes / Spikes
- Taunt
- Waterfall
- Thunder Wave / Destiny Bond


Great Spiker, and a good overall check to Fighting types. I prefer Toxic Spikes, as that shits on stall teams that lack a grounded Poison type, but Spikes are useful as well. Taunt stops opponents setting up on you and recovering. Waterfall is a decently powerful STAB that 2HKOes uninvested Espeon after a little prior damage. Thunder Wave cripples fast frail Pokemon - Destiny Bond can help take something down with you, and it works great with Taunt. You could also use Scald, but it does crap damage and with the burn nerf it's just not as good. The EVs give you enough Speed to outrun 252 Jolly Scrafty, as well as uninvested 100s. 248 HP EVs give you the best overall bulk, with 220 in Defence as its typing and intimidate make it more suited to taking physical hits. I find this set preferable to Froslass as a Spiker - it may be slower, but its superior bulk and defensive typing let it set up more easily, and it has more chance to set up thanks to Intimidate and its great typing.
 

Ajna

heavy heart
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past Smogon Snake Draft Champion
ChrystalFalchion i have some experience with qwilfish in this meta, and this spread/set is rather inefficient. running enough speed for jolly scrafty in a meta where the mon is very rarely used is a complete waste of bulk. you only really need enough speed for glig/fast chesnaught to successfully set spikes, keep them, and check fighters. a set with scald and pain split is also much better imo. it helps offensive teams (what fish should be used on) vs doublade and gligar respectively. with doublade it threatens it with a burn, stops it from boosting, and can damage it further when at low hps with pain split. With gligar it essentially does the same thing except it stops it from defogging instead of boosting. with the nerf, and with this meta specifically, thunder wave is not good enough to warrant using watefall/twave over scald/pain split. you mention espeon, which is more of an annoyance vs scald fish, but espeon can just click morning sun (if it has it) and be right back at 100 while you are forced to switch out. the best way to get rid or espy is by trapping it with escav, drapion, or even hera.
 
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