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Dracovish is a good Pokemon. Melmetal is a good Pokemon. They are both vastly different. This is a thread to discuss Melmetal, not Dracovish. A comparison to another Pokemon can be ok in moderation when trying to prove a point, but this particular comparison has been blown far out of proportion, so let's leave it be from now on. Let's shift our focus solely to Melmetal.
Aside from Leo's fantastic post, I haven't really seen any good arguments regarding pro-unban, and, honestly, I'm kind of annoyed with that at this point given how my games as of this suspect have helped to mold my opinion toward what seems to be pretty unpopular. Right out the gate, I believe Melmetal is not only worthy of an unban, but also is a healthy addition to the tier.
To begin my contention, I would like to address a very noteworthy metagame trend that many posters here are discussing: the rise of Clef balance. It's undeniable that, at the moment, we are seeing an extremely great rise in Wishport Clefable, which is holding a lot of defensive cores together in this meta against some really brutal hard hitters. Wishpassing to Pokemon that can't recovery reliably such as Ferrothorn, Seismitoad, and Kommo-O is a boon for their defensive utility, and obviously, this has become the wave in our current metagame as a way to combat the terrifying offensive cores created by things like Zeraora, Terrakion, Dracovish, and Kyurem. However, there is something about these hard hitters, and with Clefable's role in the tier that I can't help but notice: Clefable is trying to check almost everything. It is the de facto check to Dragon spam, it is able to stomach Terrakion/Zeraora to a degree, act as a defensive barricade, but most importantly it is trying to keep defensive cores healthy. It's because of this that Clefable's role in the tier is centralizing to a degree where you will see it doing almost everything at any time (It's almost at 50% usage, for fuck's sake). However, the thing is, I don't believe this is Clefable's fault in of itself, but rather the consequence of how easy it is to wear things down. In other words, it is the lead defender of the horde of zombies that is HO and offensive cores.
This all being said, my contention in Melmetal's favor now comes into play.
It seems strange that I prelude my argument with the fact that Clefable needs to be in the tier to check heavy hitters, especially because of how Melmetal seems to only make this worse. It pries Clefable apart and opens the road for offense to clean house, and while this is true, I actually believe its effect will actually help better check these heavy-hitters much more than it will help them, while not completely shafting offense.
Let's first dissect Melmetal itself. What exactly is it bringing to the table against the metagame?
As we know, Melmetal has base 135 HP and Base 143 Defense, all backed by a pure Steel typing. This is pretty great, and these calcs support it. It also has base 143 attack, and one of the best offensive moves in the game to back it.
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 261-307 (55 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Zeraora Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 260-306 (54.8 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 288-338 (60.7 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 314-372 (66.2 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Of course, you shouldn't be leaving it in on these types of attacks without a reason, but given how casual these moves are for these hitters, the fact Melmetal has the potential to stomach these hits is an absolute boon for balance. Not only is it able to soak these hits, but its even able to punish its attackers back with great effect, much unlike the other walls that are prevalent in the tier. This sounds overcentralizing on paper, however, despite how unbelievably bulky it is, I honestly believe that its bulk is overrated. Bear in mind that it isn't able to recover outside of Wishport Clefable's help, meaning that if Melmetal takes hits like these and consequentially punishes the opposition for trying to be too aggressive without much of a gameplan, you are forced to fold some momentum to bring it back. However, even then, with its gargantuan HP stat, you don't heal very much from it.
Here are some calcs of hits it struggles to take outright, and these are all physical.
252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 390-460 (82.2 - 97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (dies if rain is up)
+2 252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 572-674 (120.6 - 142.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Zeraora Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 346-408 (72.9 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This seems all pretty impressive on paper, but given that it's abysmally slow, it isn't able to switch in on any of these attacks without having to take another. In fact, its speed is a giant, giant problem for it. It has to always take some kind of punishment, and it absolutely hates getting burned by things like Weezing (preferably normal), Rotom-A, or Incineroar, the latter two of which are phenomenal checks to it.
None of this is even accounting for the special end, where with even an Assault Vest, it faces an extremely tough time. Nasty Plot Rotom-Heat is a staple set, and Melmetal gets melted by it. With some chip (which Melmetal is definitely taking, especially with spike stacking), Kyurem's Earth Power can blow it back as well, even moreso against its best set.
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal: 418-494 (88.1 - 104.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
8 SpA Rotom-Heat Overheat vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal: 420-494 (88.6 - 104.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
So, where am I going with this? To keep it short, I believe that Melmetal is a good check to the centralization of Wishport Clefable, but also a good, yet not centralizing check to the offense that it can beat. As stated before, Wishport Clefable is forced to hold the defensive metagame together, and nobody can really blame it. It has to with how prevalent these offensive threats are, and Melmetal is a strong, yet not broken check that gives Clefable more breathing room. Clefable doesn't need to be as much of a crutch to balance and keep everything healthy at every second, and Melmetal is able to not only take a hit, but punish thoughtless offense all the same. It allows for balance and defense to take different approaches to handling certain threats that they normally can't because of things like Zeraora, such as the menacing Specs Kyurem or Hex Pult. This is why I believe Melmetal promotes diversity as well: it creates for a more surefire check to offense, allowing for balance to take many more approaches in order to succeed, while still having pretty consistent checks that are already commonplace in the tier. That's what balance is. It's not meant to be a one trick pony like it's been forced to be with Wishport Clefable being such a necessity on it. Of course, with the nature of Wishport Clefable and how much it supports Melmetal as well, it's going to remain a big part of balance, but the idea is that it frees up team slots in order to allow more diversity, which greatly helps the metagame.
However, I already know one huge counterpoint regarding Melmetal's presence in the tier: its offensive potential. This is extremely true, and I'm not here to argue that it isn't a big threat offensively. However, again, I believe to a degree this is overstated as well. We have things like Rocky Helmet, which is a giant way to punish and wear down DIB spamming Melmetals. I've been seeing abusers like Ferrothorn and Slack Off Hippowdon sets (the latter of which naturally outspeeds Melmetal) that are surprisingly solid checks to its offensive variants, and I've been using Rocky Helmet Corviknight to a similar effect, which utilizes Pressure to wear down DIB's PP even faster. I mentioned how easy it is to burn it as well, and, as Leo suggested, Protect is amazing against it especially. I just haven't had that hard of a time checking Melmetal defensively, and like any threat in the metagame, adapting to its presence is a given. Things we know aren't broken but are great, like Corviknight, make an impact on the metagame, and we naturally have to prepare for them. I feel Melmetal is no different despite its strengths.
All in all, for these reasons, once I get reqs, I'm going to vote unban.
This is the best pro-unban post thusfar, but you've missed out a massive problem with Melmetal.
Switching into it.
I think the correct way to play Melmetal in SwSh OU is to play it like a glass cannon until you see an opportunity to exploit its massive bulk. Then you eat a hit and kill what's in front of you.
So what does that mean in practice? It means you look for an opportunity to get Melmetal in safely against a mon that cannot realistically hurt it. This is actually a scary list of mons. Take for instance, Corviknight, who is a "check" to Melmetal.
48 Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 92-110 (22.3 - 26.7%) -- 95.7% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
And then this "check" is forced out by the threat of Banded Tpunch or Mel Acid Armouring in its face. So Mel then gets a chance to hit the opposing team as the opponent goes into another "check".
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Melmetal Thunder Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Heat: 82-96 (27 - 31.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Heat: 98-116 (32.3 - 38.2%) -- approx. 99% chance to 3HKO
So, now you obviously switch to something that handles Rotom-H and how much damage has Melmetal taken? Worst case, Stealth Rock (which it resists) and Corv predicting it coming in and using Body Press, which sums to 30% tops, easy for a Wish pass if you like. If Melmetal comes in on Defog or Roost, then it has taken no appreciable damage at all. Then you simply keep doing this, WishPorting it into play as necessary, until the "check" is in KO range of another hit. Then thanks to its absurd bulk Melmetal simply eats the hit from its "check" and kills it. By conservative play it is very easy to save Melmetal's HP until you need it. (On another note, Rotom-H cannot fit Nasty Plot, Overheat, Will-O-Wisp, Volt Switch and Pain Split into one set, which means something is always going to be missing from its anti-Melmetal toolkit.)
But that's assuming your opponent doesn't try and predict your switch. For instance, in the example I gave, it would be all too easy for the Melmetal player to go for Superpower, which clobbers Corv pretty hard and nails the Rotom switch-in.
252+ Atk Choice Band Melmetal Superpower vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Corviknight: 211-249 (52.7 - 62.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Melmetal Superpower vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Heat: 218-257 (71.9 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This is the biggest issue with Choice Band Melmetal: its checks are different depending on what move it locks into. And before it locks into a move, the opponent is left in a horrific dilemma as to which move it is going to use. And it is all too easy for the Melmetal player to click a button, watch the incoming mon get slammed, and switch out to repeat. It doesn't need speed to do that. (Oh and btw, if you're a real madman Choice Scarf Melmetal outruns everything up to and including base 75).
But anyway, people keep saying Melmetal's special bulk is poor. This is a laughable claim, which is backed up by Pokemon using Super Effective moves with STAB or Specs behind them to hurt it. To understand how specially bulky Melmetal really is, we need to look at neutral hits.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Primarina Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 244 SpD Melmetal: 301-355 (73.2 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 244 SpD Melmetal: 198-234 (48.1 - 56.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(For comparison: 252 SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 141-166 (46.3 - 54.6%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery)
252 SpA Choice Specs Punk Rock Toxtricity Overdrive vs. 0 HP / 244 SpD Melmetal: 242-286 (58.8 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 244 SpD Melmetal: 237-279 (57.6 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
So the strongest neutral Special hits fail to KO it. This does not scream "fragile", especially when it KOs all of these mons in return. And let's not forget Melmetal has 10 resistances and an immunity to play with too:
252 SpA Choice Specs Punk Rock Toxtricity Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 244 SpD Melmetal: 140-165 (34 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor over 2 turns vs. 0 HP / 244 SpD Melmetal: 248-293 (60.3 - 71.2%) -- not a KO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 244 SpD Melmetal: 118-139 (28.7 - 33.8%) -- 48.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
So by the standards of breakers, Melmetal is absurdly bulky. While it is true that many mons can 1v1 it if they come in safely, the chance of them doing so is next to none, and the chances of Melmetal staying in to take these hits is even less likely. So the only way to beat Melmetal is as above, to build your entire team so it cannot switch into freely once. If that doesn't scream "broken", nothing does.
Quick aside: People just love to jump all over the council. They said they'd retest Melmetal and they are. One minute they're being "too slow" to deal with X, the next minute a suspect is "too soon". You can't win can you. So thanks Finch et. al. for giving us the chance to look at this mon again.
It seems like a lot of your post has just assumed things, I very clearly said at the end of my post I don't know what I want to vote yet but I think it will have a unwanted knock on effect on the tier, but the tier has proven capable of handling it without it being too extreme (so calling it similar to Mewtwo or Dynamax is not a valid comparison). But I am not going to not struggle with it at all on the ladder and be like "this shits broken as fuck it cannot get a chance in the tier whatsoever", I gave a very valid view from my own laddering session.
A pokemon doesn't need to 6-0 a team to be broken. This thing has 30 base speed for crying out loud, it's impossible for it to sweep teams. In this "good matchup" you're sacking Ferrothorn to handle Melmetal. Hippo is cleanly 2HKO'd and cannot KO back. Rotom-H can switch in twice (assuming DIB), but cannot KO it back.
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 124-146 (35.2 - 41.4%) -- approx. 83.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 270-318 (64.2 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Heat: 98-116 (32.3 - 38.2%) -- approx. 99% chance to 3HKO
Worst case scenario, Ferro takes 82% and flinches, Mel dies. Don't forget the team composition either, this team has Wishport Clef on it so the idea of Ferro being dead weight and useless is not exactly true. In this scenario on ladder most often Mel was either scared out because another DIB would cause it to faint from Barbs/Helmet and I managed to heal up Ferro with Leech or got Spikes up. Alternative scenario, Ferro takes 41% from the initial switchin, I need Ferro to switch into say a Vish, so I switch to Hippo/Rotom instead. Hippo takes a big hit but its on the player to determine what should take a hit or not (I will admit Wishport Clef gives you a LOT more leeway when it comes to these scenarios). It's getting kinda boring talking about these gameplay points when every matchup is different, it's all about how you assess the game as a player in terms of what to "sack".
Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn is probably your best bet to keep Metal in "check". Worst case you run into a correctly predicted CB Superpower and it's still a 2HKO, but you take out 50% of Metal's health. From there it'll be in KO range of a lot of things that outspeed it (Toed, flamethrower clefable, etc). Pair it with a rotom-H, hippo, corviknight and boom. Do you have it contained with adequate counterplay? Yes. Is it still broken? Yes. They aren't mutually exclusive.
Again like I said, it's all in the game, mindlessly throwing Ferro at Mel every game might seem optimal but that doesn't mean its always the best play, you need to make decisions based on your opponents lineup and react accordingly, it's really not as simple as throw Ferro at it. And okay great you think it's broken, that's kinda the point of this thread for dropping an uber threat, and again I said I was not decided when I wrote my first post, so don't get the idea that I'm preaching this shit isn't broken at all, this all comes back to my first point, I talked about how I personally felt about the mon itself, I didn't go into detail about overcentralisation or the overall effect on the meta (I did touch on this slightly and I DO think it will cause more negatives than positives)
This is a minor point but I dislike using the term "standard lineups". Every team in this meta is standard because the meta is overcentralized around centralizing offensive threats. With Melmetal legal, every team will look even more the same! Corvi, ferro, rotom-h for all!
This has been SS for ages unfortunately, due to a much smaller pool of Pokemon available this was bound to happen, being focused around a small number of threats, I'd call this a flaw of Dexit and not so much tiering. Perhaps it's time to suck up the GSC-esque nature of the tier, at least until DLC drops? I think we can both agree this is an unavoidable issue though.
No not at all, I am not saying your team is bad. I just dislike your argument of "I handled it well" for multiple reasons.
Broken pokemon don't make more people lose; the same number of people will be winning and those that "adapt" will win. It's not an argument against something broken. A skilled battler and teambuilder can do well even if we release Kyogre to OU
We can release Mewtwo to OU and there will still be counterplay. Dynamax has counterplay. Both are broken.
I understand that, but again, vastly different mons are being compared here. Mewtwo has 154 Spa / 130 Speed in a tier with few decent scarfers along with the moveset to hit absolutely anything it wants to ever, this comparison is just silly, Mel shares nothing in common with M2 apart from being labelled Uber, comparing Mel to any other Uber is a bit of a stretch as it is nowhere near the same power level as them, so I think Mel should stop being compared to things like M2, Kyogre and Dynamax of all things.
In order to you run your "options", you by definition need minimum ~3 checks to Melmetal since you want the ability to switch out if needed. Do you have issue with teams needing ~3 "checks" to have satisfactory counterplay against Metal? Also, prediction works both ways.
You may say a lot of the options to "check" Melmetal are "standard", like ferro/corvi/rotom-h. True, do you want to further centralize the game around them?
No, the team composition was just a bonus for checking Mel, I used a very strong balance style regardless of whether Mel is here or not, you could remove one of the pieces on that team but I personally think you would have to rework it in order to cover up the holes that have been made.
I have hardly talked about overcentralisation, I have not made a decision yet. Yes I will take into account overcentralisation when I do decide what to vote, I've been doing this shit for years, I'm not a total shit-for-brains you know.
I just want to add one thing about Melmetal and Dracovish:
They are to easy to use, which doesn't seem competitive to me.
For Melmetal, it is about having a check for pretty much every single physical mon in the entire metagame, similar to how Blissey was for special mons. The major difference: You don't have to think with it and its also offensive, just either spam its special Move or use a Body Press set. If it were to have Registeel offenses nobody would care.
Dracovish is something I put on pretty much every OU team I test on ladder, because I don't like to think and simply use one move. If teams are prepared for Vish, I simply use it as intelligent fodder (e.g. 4 times resist to water and fire moves and nice bulk anyone?). For example if my opponent pivots Seismitoad around well or I can't predict the opponent, I simply use its decent-but-not-as-strong psychic fangs/crunch to deal a lot of damage, so that my other team members can sweep.
I'd like to point out that my main reason to lean Ban , is because Melmetal is a top constrictor againstHyper Offense options in this current meta.
Nutcase now joins Lord Vish as an HO constrictor, and yes first I can see how it's annoying to bring the fossil up.
But the comparison is mentioned because there aren't more than a handful of HO mons with decent meta viability, that can force either of them out, even when Mel/Vish are only somewhat healthy.
Here's an example I'll use to extend to Melmetal: among the limited amount of offensive ways to check Vish, a more common HO combination [pick 2 or 3] has been Pult/Zera/strong-physical-priority to deal with Vish in a less passive manner than what balance has access to.
Continuing this example, now against Melmetal, Zera and priority are not nearly as effective, while Pult has to likely resort on a damage-boosting item and Fire Blast to scare it out (compare to Pult having more staying power and flexibility by affording spell tag/lefties/lum and taking out Vish with Draco)
It's the combination of Mel's OHKO power, good/great bulk, typing, and lack of soft-checking offensive switch-ins, that will likely see it's usage rise in the meta, and thus severely limit HO's choices to provide pressure on a decent variety of meta teams with the same 6 mons.
Sure one could say "use your own Mel"; "just lead and be aggressive with NP rotom-h or force Torkoal/Sun"; but I'd argue these restrictions would cause HO teams to lose the pre-Mel level of flexibility dealing with various fat cores as well as other HOs.
Btw I'm actually up for suspecting other top HO mons to reduce centralization and give Balance or Bulky Offense more viable options too.
I wouldn't be surprised if there are balance/fat/attrition lovers that say "good then keep Mel and kill HO as a viable playstyle."
I like to use balance occasionally though personally I don't enjoy many times that comes down to fat vs fat (while others enjoy this).
So to continue attracting players with different tastes, I think the efforts should be put in to keep HO at a reasonably viable level. (yes that's a relative defintion; for one I don't think HO has to be "as viable" as balance)
I've been with Smog for more than a decade, & during this gen I've researched many threads and replays for good various HO options/practices, and so far the amount of HO deterrence to deal with an uber-like mon in Mel is not enough to me.
Anyways TLDR: pre-Melmetal, Hyper Offense has managed to (in decent health imo) stay as a flexible playstyle that walks the line covering both fat and other HO. But with this slow yet godlike 'mon thrown in, Melmetal is one heavy straw breaking the HO camel's back.
While I'm not participating in the test, I have been laddering for fun and want to throw some stuff here just from an outsider's perspective.
CB Melmetal has absolutely no reliable switch-ins. While Rotom-Heat and Corviknight can switch in and take CB Double Iron Bash, not even 252 HP, 252 Def, Bold Rotom, or Corvi can take two banded Superpowers or Thunder Punches respectively.
**252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Melmetal Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 242-286 (60.5 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery**
**252+ Atk Choice Band Melmetal Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Heat: 158-187 (51.9 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO**
The use of LO makes it a roll to 2HKO Rotom-Heat but does not affect Corviknight or the previously unmentioned physically defensive Toxapex, which gets 2HKO'ed by Melmetal's Earthquake. Furthermore, Rotom-H favors HDB over any other item, since it can't keep switching into and taking Stealth Rock chip to be a Melmetal check.
Beyond just Melmetal, which isn't afraid of the vast majority of the meta, the team support makes playing against Melmetal even more difficult. Melmetal will also make Clefable a more prominent pokemon, since it covers Melmetal's exploitable speed, SpDef, and gives Melmetal a free switch-in with Teleport. And Scarf Gengar/Dragapult pair nicely with it too to outspeed possible revenge killers after some help from Clefable. Besides that, there are more sets then just Banded DIB. Sub, Acid Armor and other defensive variants suck as AV makes Melmetal one of its own reliable its own check outside of and opposing Melmetal's Superpower.
I believe that Melmetal will freshen up the meta for about two weeks before everyone will start complaining and get bored. If the council really wants the meta to change, then I think the best course of action is to suspect test Clefable or just wait to see how the DLC will change the game.
First off, I'd like to clear some smoke, I don't want this to be a hostile discussion. I know my first post was incendiary so I apologize for that. Also, I want to make clear that I like the discussion you've brought along. Now that's out of the way, I have a couple minor responses
I described how I handled it and I don't know how you're getting just throwing Ferro out the window,
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 124-146 (35.2 - 41.4%) -- approx. 83.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 270-318 (64.2 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Heat: 98-116 (32.3 - 38.2%) -- approx. 99% chance to 3HKO
Worst case scenario, Ferro takes 82% and flinches, Mel dies. Don't forget the team composition either, this team has Wishport Clef on it so the idea of Ferro being dead weight and useless is not exactly true. In this scenario on ladder most often Mel was either scared out because another DIB would cause it to faint from Barbs/Helmet and I managed to heal up Ferro with Leech or got Spikes up. Alternative scenario, Ferro takes 41% from the initial switchin, I need Ferro to switch into say a Vish, so I switch to Hippo/Rotom instead. Hippo takes a big hit but its on the player to determine what should take a hit or not (I will admit Wishport Clef gives you a LOT more leeway when it comes to these scenarios). It's getting kinda boring talking about these gameplay points when every matchup is different, it's all about how you assess the game as a player in terms of what to "sack".
This has been SS for ages unfortunately, due to a much smaller pool of Pokemon available this was bound to happen, being focused around a small number of threats, I'd call this a flaw of Dexit and not so much tiering. Perhaps it's time to suck up the GSC-esque nature of the tier, at least until DLC drops? I think we can both agree this is an unavoidable issue though.
That's an interesting point that I will have to think about, no doubt a factor in the centralization but I do overall respectfully disagree and believe centralization is driven mostly by a few suspect-worthy offensive threats. The comparison to GSC is interesting but I believe if you did the actual counting etc. there is still far more options in this meta than even gen 4.
I'd elaborate on this point but it would get too off-topic, and better suited for the metagame thread. But at the end of the day I don't agree centralization is an "unavoidable" issue as you say but I'm fine to call this one an agree-to-disagree topic
So my only minor nit is that it's not a "worst case scenario" but rather a 50% chance that Ferro gets flinched on the 2nd hit and dies on the 3rd. Each time Metal attacks, it is 29% of self inflicted damage of Helmet + Barbs, so Melmetal will have 13% left, in other words neutralized if the rest of your team outspeeds.
Now I've got reqs, I want to share my view on melmetal from facing it on ladder. Melmetal is extremely low risk and low cost, having insane physical bulk that allows it to tank pretty much every physical attacker, even if you play extremely badly. You can essentially play without fear, giving a free turn to whatever, because you know that melmetal can tank anything (even a +6 gyara lmao, had this happen). If this was all it did, then there wouldn't be much of a problem, it'd just be a good bulky mon, but it can do this with a choice band set that has no realiable switch ins. This means you can't afford to give mel a free turn. The problem here is, due to the absurd bulk, being in on an unboosted terrakion, +2 Zera, +2 Bish, etc. is a free turn. No matter how aggressively you play, I fail to see how melmetal doesn't get at least 1 free turn per game unless the opponent sacks it for no apparent reason. The meta simply does not have enough mons that are a significant threat to mel to prevent this from happening. It has extremely good coverage, with DIB + tpunch hitting almost all the meta alone, while having eq, superpower and rock slide for the things like other melmetal, ferro and rotom-h that would otherwise cause trouble for it.
Just to go over the best checks to this thing, you have ferro, that can take any hit and does damage back thanks to iron barbs (getting >50 chip w barbs + helmet on DIB is wonderful), although it is scared of superpower. Rotom-H can come in twice (once if they click superpower, or not at all if they're slide). Next, you have your own melmetal, speed creeping the opposing one to hit it with an EQ/superpower, and outside of those hard predicting DIBs to pp stall with corvik is about the best you can do. In short, you have like 2 good checks that mel still has a way around, and after that it's more scrambling to stop it completely destroying you (something that there's far too much of in this gen already for my liking. Also bear in mind the sub acid armor press set, that sets up on ferro, meaning you can be in a shit situation just by going to your check if they're not the set you expected.
If that was the only issue, I'd probably just see it as a top tier mon, but the other issue is how much support is available for mel in this meta. Almost every balance has wish clef (or even sylv or vaporeon, clef isn't the only option even if it's the best), which can pass a wish to mel without too much difficulty. The biggest threat to doing this is melmetal itself, as it can safely switch in to clef and click EQ to prevent the wish (yes the clef could stay in and teleport, but that's risky af for obvious reasons), which to me highlights how centralising it is. If you look at the current breakers, none of them are really in the position of melmetal in terms of how difficult they are to threaten, while mel certainly does match (or surpass in some cases) how threatening they are. The only real downside it has in comparison is it can't sweep in a traditional sense (unless you run TR, which as gimmicky as it is looks far more legit w a melmetal sat on it), which I don't really see as a huge downside as it's still putting in match winning work, and can get wins by having the opp be unable to kill it after something goes down.
To summarise my argument, mel is far too low cost and puts in work even if you play it badly, while being well played in the right team makes it far too much for the tier in it's current state. While I'd jump at the chance for a change to this meta, I don't think mel is the correct change, so will be voting ban, and hoping the next suspect is better vish and kyu please. I would've preferred this to be retested after the DLC dropped (this test feels really redundant), and would be in favour of retesting it then.
I see a lot of good points being made by both sides and I haven't fully decided what my stance on this is going to be just yet.
But I would like to say that Melmetal having the potential to break a variety of different defensive cores with different sets isn't a very good argument.
It's like saying Magearna can run shift gear electrium z to break past Toxapex, AV to check gren and calm mind to beat stall all at the same time.
By that logic Mag should have been banned last gen. I realise I am oversimplifying this to prove a point.
Yes you are oversimplifying because Magearna didn't have the sheer amount of raw power that Melmetal has. He mostly dealt with threats because of a variety of moveslots in her kit, and Z moves were a one-time itemless tradeoff. It's not like Melmetal has that many move options, but they all hit fo a fuckton given its statistics.
Yes you are oversimplifying because Magearna didn't have the sheer amount of raw power that Melmetal has. He mostly dealt with threats because of a variety of moveslots in her kit, and Z moves were a one-time itemless tradeoff. It's not like Melmetal has that many move options, but they all hit fo a fuckton given its statistics.
I'm simply stating that being able to run different sets to beat different cores shouldn't immediately equate to a ban. I'm singling out that point. And not challenging other factors like Melmetals raw power as you mentioned.
From what I have seen so far, there are two main Melmetal set running around: Choice Band, Sub 3 attack leftovers, and Body Press. Here, I will make the argument against banning Melmetal by pointing out some mons which hard counters Melmetal by beating every single Melmetal set outside of extremely special scenarios. Taunt Bulk Up Corvinight: Corvinight with Phys def investment and taunt literally hard walls every Melmetal set. Corvinight with no defensive investment, even if Melmetal player get the prediction right, Choice Band ThunderPunch still cannot KO barring a crit, which Corvinight can just Roost stall after. With 200 defensive investment beneficial nature on Corvinight, Melmetal Body Press cannot 2HKO, even when Corvinight Roost and loose it's flying type (252+ Def Melmetal Body Press vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Corviknight: 102-121 (25.5 - 30.2%) -- 0.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery), and it will definitely will never beat Corvinight if gets taunted from Acid Armoring while Corvinight Bulk Up (furthermore, this variant Melmetal has no attack investment, which makes DIB a lot less threatening). The only two scenario where Melmetal can beat a Corvinight is that (1) Choice Band Thunder Punch paralyze on the switch, or crit on a Sp. Def Corvinight, which are both very unlikely, and (2) Sub leftovers set gets 2 correct prediction in a row by Thunder Punch on the switch and EQ on Roost, but Corvinight with some defensive investment can Bulk Up on the switch in and live a second Thunder Punch without any risk. Bulky Water Ground Phys Def Gastrodon/ Toad/ Quagsire:
Melmetal cannot 2HKO any phys def Gastrodon/ Toad barring a crit, even with Choice Band Adamant, while the latter easily 2HKO Melmetal back with Earth Power. While Gastrodon and Quagsire might be suspectable to flinch provided Melmetal speedcrep (they are both faster than Melmetal naturally), they have reliable recovery and can potentially run Rocky Helmet to wear down Melmetal, while Toad requires Wish support and faster than non-Jolly Melmetal without investment. Furthermore, Gastrodon and Quagsire are definitely OU viable pick, as they also help wall many other threats like Dracovish, T-Tar, Cinderace, Terrak, DD Pult, etc. Eternal Pex: Pex tank every hit from non choice band variant easily, survive at least one TPunch/ EQ from choice band, and if your team has no other electric/ ground immunity with Zeraora/ Excadrill running around, you really deserve to stuck on the low ladder. The only case where Melmetal can win is to flinch down Pex with DIB, but this would waste all of Melmetal PP if it's not Choice Banded, and practical impossible if Pex runs Baneful Bunker. Some more niche picks- Bronzong, Arcanine, Corsola Galar, Jellicent, Vileplume
Again, the examples provided here already assume Melmetal runs every possibly beneficial set and makes all prediction on the switch as if the player is ghosting his opponent. In practice, it's going to be a lot easier (how many players have the balls to click anything other than DIB in front of a Specs DPult/ Kyurem, EQ in front of Zeraora, or DIB knowing his/ her opponent has Ferrothorn in the back). Offensively, I believe it's not even as threatening as Greninja/ Metagross Gen 6, or Shift Gear Magearna last gen, while on Balance Team it's nothing compared to the menance created by Cosmic Power/ CM Clef gen 6.
From what I have seen so far, there are two main Melmetal set running around: Choice Band, Sub 3 attack leftovers, and Body Press. Here, I will make the argument against banning Melmetal by pointing out some mons which hard counters Melmetal by beating every single Melmetal set outside of extremely special scenarios. Taunt Bulk Up Corvinight: Corvinight with Phys def investment and taunt literally hard walls every Melmetal set. Corvinight with no defensive investment, even if Melmetal player get the prediction right, Choice Band ThunderPunch still cannot KO barring a crit, which Corvinight can just Roost stall after. With 200 defensive investment beneficial nature on Corvinight, Melmetal Body Press cannot 2HKO, even when Corvinight Roost and loose it's flying type (252+ Def Melmetal Body Press vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Corviknight: 102-121 (25.5 - 30.2%) -- 0.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery), and it will definitely will never beat Corvinight if gets taunted from Acid Armoring while Corvinight Bulk Up (furthermore, this variant Melmetal has no attack investment, which makes DIB a lot less threatening). The only two scenario where Melmetal can beat a Corvinight is that (1) Choice Band Thunder Punch paralyze on the switch, or crit on a Sp. Def Corvinight, which are both very unlikely, and (2) Sub leftovers set gets 2 correct prediction in a row by Thunder Punch on the switch and EQ on Roost, but Corvinight with some defensive investment can Bulk Up on the switch in and live a second Thunder Punch without any risk. Bulky Water Ground Phys Def Gastrodon/ Toad/ Quagsire:
Melmetal cannot 2HKO any phys def Gastrodon/ Toad barring a crit, even with Choice Band Adamant, while the latter easily 2HKO Melmetal back with Earth Power. While Gastrodon and Quagsire might be suspectable to flinch provided Melmetal speedcrep (they are both faster than Melmetal naturally), they have reliable recovery and can potentially run Rocky Helmet to wear down Melmetal, while Toad requires Wish support and faster than non-Jolly Melmetal without investment. Furthermore, Gastrodon and Quagsire are definitely OU viable pick, as they also help wall many other threats like Dracovish, T-Tar, Cinderace, Terrak, DD Pult, etc. Eternal Pex: Pex tank every hit from non choice band variant easily, survive at least one TPunch/ EQ from choice band, and if your team has no other electric/ ground immunity with Zeraora/ Excadrill running around, you really deserve to stuck on the low ladder. The only case where Melmetal can win is to flinch down Pex with DIB, but this would waste all of Melmetal PP if it's not Choice Banded, and practical impossible if Pex runs Baneful Bunker. Some more niche picks- Bronzong, Arcanine, Corsola Galar, Jellicent, Vileplume
Again, the examples provided here already assume Melmetal runs every possibly beneficial set and makes all prediction on the switch as if the player is ghosting his opponent. In practice, it's going to be a lot easier (how many players have the balls to click anything other than DIB in front of a Specs DPult/ Kyurem, EQ in front of Zeraora, or DIB knowing his/ her opponent has Ferrothorn in the back). Offensively, I believe it's not even as threatening as Greninja/ Metagross Gen 6, or Shift Gear Magearna last gen, while on Balance Team it's nothing compared to the menance created by Cosmic Power/ CM Clef gen 6.
HALF good points imo the only true counter is your corvi. But pex aint that eternal as it seems. And this mons just centralizes the meta. Voting against ban is like advocating for socialism
How can taunt/bulk up/roost/body press be considered a good set when you have to leave substitute out making you extremely vulnerable to status conditions? Not only that, but your supposed "counter" has to roost every time it switches in and gets a tpunch in return, not recovering to the fullest, and giving back momentum to the enemy. If this is the best counter you have it really goes to show how terribly broken this pokemon is. Also 20% of the times this situation happens you get para and lose the game.
How can taunt/bulk up/roost/body press be considered a good set when you have to leave substitute out making you extremely vulnerable to status conditions? Not only that, but your supposed "counter" has to roost every time it switches in and gets a tpunch in return, not recovering to the fullest, and giving back momentum to the enemy. If this is the best counter you have it really goes to show how terribly broken this pokemon is. Also 20% of the times this situation happens you get para and lose the game.
(1) Taunt Bulk Up Corvinight is better than Substitute since it beats Haze Toxapex, not wasting your Substitute vs. Inflitrator Dpult, burns barely matter if u get to +6
(2) You let a slow walk breaker gets in. What kind of Pokemon doesn't have to click recover when switch into a CB walk breaker? By your logic, we should probably ban Specs Cursola, Banded Pangoro, and probably anything with base offensive stats higher than 125 equiped with a choice item (TBH, there are probably more counters to Melmetal than Banded Pangoro with Close Combat Gunk Shot)
(3) Thunder punch paralyze chance is 10%. Furthermore, by your logic, we should ban Ice Punch Jirachi since 20% of the time it removes a Pokemon from the game.
(3) Thunder punch paralyze chance is 10%. Furthermore, by your logic, we should ban Ice Punch Jirachi since 20% of the time it removes a Pokemon from the game.
Just to note: the odds of being paralyzed in a steady stream of thunder punches is 1-(.9^n). Since thunder punch is a 2HKO on a non-roosting corvi, and pressure yields 12 attempts, the odds of being paralyzed with this gambit and melmetal still having enough PP to KO corvi are about 65%. Melmetal has better odds to win the PP stall war than corvi does.
Just to note: the odds of being paralyzed in a steady stream of thunder punches is 1-(.9^n). Since thunder punch is a 2HKO on a non-roosting corvi, and pressure yields 12 attempts, the odds of being paralyzed with this gambit and melmetal still having enough PP to KO corvi are about 65%. Melmetal has better odds to win the PP stall war than corvi does.
You don't have to stay in to take every t punch. You can also go to Zeraora or something else that takes a t punch. And force it out or revenge kill it. There are still mindgames.
You don't have to stay in to take every t punch. You can also go to Zeraora or something else that takes a t punch. And force it out or revenge kill it. There are still mindgames.
That's great, except the whole argument was based on Corviknight being a hard counter to Melmetal due to its ability to roost stall Melmetal's thunderpunch. See the quote below:
Choice Band ThunderPunch still cannot KO barring a crit, which Corvinight can just Roost stall after.
Corviknight has worse odds to win the roost stall than Melmetal does. At best, it eats a thunderpunch, roosts once, then pivots to something that is immune to thunder punch.
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Melmetal Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Corviknight: 158-187 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (roosting)
In this situation, corviknight leaves the field in range of another thunderpunch, so it can only do it once. It also has a 19% chance of being para'd each time it comes in and roosts on a thunder punch.
I'm of the opinion that Melmetal should be banned. However, I think it should be noted that while Melmetal lacking defensive counter play outside of Taunt Corviknight, is definitely a factor in what breaks Melmetal, it is not the only reason why. Throughout the generations, there have been plenty of Pokemon with little to no defensive counter play.
Black Kyurem throughout the generations had little to no reliable defensive counter play throughout the generations, but he has not been banned until this one because of him getting Ice STAB and Dragon Dance. Apart from lacking reliable STAB moves, what also made Kyurem B balanced and unbroken was his average speed tier and terrible defensive typing, making him easy to revenge kill. The few types he does resist usually have ways around him too. For an example, Kyurem B cannot switch into Keldeo or Tapu Bulu because of their Fighting-attacks. In addition, Kyurem B has a crippling weakness to entry hazards, limiting his longevity.
Hoopa-U, while banned in Gen 6, was unbanned in Gen 7 and was a surprisingly underwhelming pick. It still had no solid switch-ins, but it had very crippling flaws that made other wallbreakers preferred. Due to its lack of resistances, it was pretty much worthless against offensive teams and was hard to find chances to come in, with exceptions being against Toxapex and Mega Alakazam. It was also very easy to revenge kill due to its pitiful physical bulk and weakness to U-turn. And giving up momentum in USUM is very bad.
Gen 5 Hydreigon's Life Orb set also had no reliable counter plays. Even Chansey was prone to being worn down thanks to permanent sand, and running Superpower was not out of the question. However, Hydreigon was very easy to revenge kill thanks to Dragons running the metagame. It was also weak to Fighting-types that also ran the metagame. Due to giving Fighting and Dragon-types free turns, it was a good but not amazing pick.
Melmetal possesses none of these things. It is not at all weak to entry hazards thanks to resisting Stealth Rock, being immune to Toxic Spikes, and the only Spikes setter is Ferrothorn, making them not as prevalent as they are in other generations. Obviously, it does have reliable STAB. It is also surprisingly tough to revenge kill.
252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 288-338 (70 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal: 255-300 (62 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 314-372 (76.3 - 90.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 266-314 (64.7 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
While these Pokemon do get close, they are not reliable answers to Melmetal. And let's not forget that some Melmetal do invest in bulk.
Lastly, Melmetal finds plenty of ways to get in to wreck havoc through the likes of Clefable, Togekiss, Tyranitar, and Choice locked attacks, making it very hard to deal with for practically every playstyle. Offensive teams lack the bulk to stomach Melmetal's absurd power, while even defensive teams can struggle due to Melmetal's great coverage. The only safe bets Rotom-H, Taunt Corviknight, and Rotom-W. The Rotom appliances also have trouble lasting through the whole game to their lack of reliable recovery.
In conclusion, Melmetal is broken because of its combination of great power, defensive utility, and lack of reliable ways to revenge kill it.
Idk if I'm gonna have enough time to get reqs, but after watching some replays and playing a couple games of my own, I've come to the conclusion that Melmetal is stupid and probably shouldn't return to OU.
Many others have beaten the "no counters/switchins" thing to death already, but I do want to talk about the Sub + Iron Defense/Acid Armor + Body Press set for a minute.
Melmetal @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 144 HP / 252 Def / 112 Spe
Impish Nature
- Substitute
- Iron Defense
- Double Iron Bash
- Body Press
This is the spread I'm currently running. Speed is for Hippo, and the rest goes to phys def, with max Defense EVs to ensure Body Press is at its most powerful. Also makes it marginally more physically bulky than if I were to run max HP.
Anyways, this set is beyond dumb. Choice Band is nice and all, but this takes Melmetal into another realm of absurdity This thing only needs one Iron Defense to have one of the strongest non-STAB Body Presses in the tier behind Avalugg, with the main difference being that Melmetal has a much better defensive typing and overall bulk to successfully pull an Iron Defense + Body Press set off. Don't even get me started with some of these calcs:
252 Atk Excadrill Earthquake vs. +2 144 HP / 252+ Def Melmetal: 96-114 (21.4 - 25.5%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. +2 144 HP / 252+ Def Melmetal: 102-122 (22.8 - 27.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. +2 144 HP / 252+ Def Melmetal: 120-144 (26.8 - 32.2%) -- 12% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery (12.00% chance to 4HKO after accuracy)
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Close Combat vs. +2 144 HP / 252+ Def Melmetal: 192-228 (42.9 - 51%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (100.00% chance to 3HKO after accuracy)
252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (Doubled) vs. +2 144 HP / 252+ Def Melmetal: 150-177 (33.5 - 39.5%) -- 6.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (0.00% chance to 3HKO after accuracy)
252+ Atk Choice Band Melmetal Superpower vs. +2 144 HP / 252+ Def Melmetal: 130-154 (29 - 34.4%) -- 94.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery (94.30% chance to 4HKO after accuracy)
252+ Atk Choice Band Mamoswine Earthquake vs. +2 144 HP / 252+ Def Melmetal: 152-180 (34 - 40.2%) -- 14.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (14.20% chance to 3HKO after accuracy)
On paper, the main problem with a set like this, and with Melmetal in general, is the lack of reliably recovery outside of Leftovers, which in theory makes this mon easy to wear down, but that's thrown out of the window because of Wish Teleport Clefable. Melmetal's lack of recovery isn't even that big of a deal anymore because of how easy it is to heal this Pokemon with Clef's absolutely brainless Wish support, allowing you to play more aggressively with Melmetal than it deserves tbh. The argument I've seen about how Melmetal's presence in the tier will help against WishTele Clef falls apart when this mon is turning out to be one of the best abusers of said Clef set, regardless if Mel's set is Body Press, Choice Band, whatever.
I'll admit that it's been fun to use Melmetal during this suspect, and I'm glad to have seen it be given a chance, but I feel it needs to stay out of OU.
"melmetal is unhealthy to the current metagame" absoluty laughable, what is exactly "healthy" about this current metagame? corvi-pex-clef core is what is truly unhealthy about this godawful OU meta. And is not like they are invicible but there is only 2 mon that can break pass those mon and those are NP hydreigon and BU zeraora, and now that we get a third answer they want to ban it too. Once you realize that the current OU stallfest metagame is centralized about those 3 mon you can clearly realize why they want melmetal banned. "Iron Man" is indeed very strong very hard to switch into but is a necessary evil to deal with the aforementioned core that is running rampage high in the ladder.
EDIT: Centiskorch may be useful for once in its life by having a reliable 60% chance to burn melmetal in a predicted iron bash. Sucks that it loses to everything else.
"melmetal is unhealthy to the current metagame" absoluty laughable, what is exactly "healthy" about this current metagame? corvi-pex-clef core is what is truly unhealthy about this godawful OU meta. And is not like they are invicible but there is only 2 mon that can break pass those mon and those are NP hydreigon and BU zeraora, and now that we get a third answer they want to ban it too. Once you realize that the current OU stallfest metagame is centralized about those 3 mon you can clearly realize why they want melmetal banned. "Iron Man" is indeed very strong very hard to switch into but is a necessary evil to deal with the aforementioned core that is running rampage high in the ladder.
EDIT: Centiskorch may be useful for once in its life by having a reliable 60% chance to burn melmetal in a predicted iron bash. Sucks that it loses to everything else.
I love how people continue to view these cores as the problem, rather than recognising them as the symptom of the real problem. The real problem is that OU is so saturated with breakers that these cookie-cutter cores are literally the only way to check all of them.
Adding Melmetal, yet another breaker, into the metagame will not decentralise it. In fact, those cores you hate so much will be become even MORE common because of their synergy with Melmetal (everyone agrees wishport into Mel is dumb, and Corv clears Spikes for it then U-turns it into play). Add on Rotom-H, which does a very similar job to Corv in "checking" opposing Melmetal and pivoting it into play, and pretty much every team with Melmetal+Anti-Melmetal looks the same. The only other thing left will be goofball HO to exploit these generic balances/semistalls... Doesn't that sound exactly like the current metagame? (But even worse, since at least without Mel there's variety in the breaker slot lol)
I love how people continue to view these cores as the problem, rather than recognising them as the symptom of the real problem. The real problem is that OU is so saturated with breakers that these cookie-cutter cores are literally the only way to check all of them.
Adding Melmetal, yet another breaker, into the metagame will not decentralise it. In fact, those cores you hate so much will be become even MORE common because of their synergy with Melmetal (everyone agrees wishport into Mel is dumb, and Corv clears Spikes for it then U-turns it into play). Add on Rotom-H, which does a very similar job to Corv in "checking" opposing Melmetal and pivoting it into play, and pretty much every team with Melmetal+Anti-Melmetal looks the same. The only other thing left will be goofball HO to exploit these generic balances/semistalls... Doesn't that sound exactly like the current metagame? (But even worse, since at least without Mel there's variety in the breaker slot lol)
second part is a fair point, first part absolutely not. Bro you're crazy if you actually believes this gen OU right now is saturated with breakers, look at past gen, it truly was saturated with breakers and stall was still the most consistent playstyle high in the ladder, this gen we lost ALMOST all the breakers like 90% percent of them. And what do stall lost? just chansey and maybe alomomola. Besides what stallbreaker this gen gave us? darm-galar but that thing is out of the question. And that just leave us with dracovish which is hopelessly walled by seismitoad, And once toad gets that toxic in is all over same with baneful bunker pex. And don't come at me with banded dracovish that thing might aswell don't exist. But ok i'll give you dracovish, and specs kyurem, with hydreigon and zeraora that makes it 4, that is saturated to you?
Melm does fare well against the common balanced cores, but it benefits even more by being run with them which is why we are seeing them used more and will continue to do so if it joins the tier officially. Melm is a much bigger issue to HO as its massive bulk allows it to take any single unboosted hit from any HO staple mon and OHKO in return, meaning whenever it gets a free switch in you will always have to sac to it (Wish support from Clef also allows it to do this repeatedly). If you're in the camp that think overused balance teams are the big problem in the meta, Melm is not your friend. It is a very centralising figure in favour of existing overused and stale bulky balance trends and that is one of the reasons many people here take issue with it.
